1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: Yesterday we heard from the Chief Minister Leafanochio that Declan's 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:07,119 Speaker 1: Law will be introduced in the first sittings of Parliament 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: commencing next Tuesday. Under Declan's Law, Chief Minister Leafanocchio said 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: there would be a presumption against bail for youth and 5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 1: adult serious violent offenders, regardless of whether a weapon is involved. 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: Now joining me on the line is Samara Lavity, whose 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: son Declar was murdered while at work at the hands 8 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: of someone who was out on bail for violent offending. 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: Good morning to Samara. 10 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. 11 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: Now, how are you feeling about the plans for the 12 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: legislation to be introduced next week? 13 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 2: And it's it's exciting, but it's also extremely bittersweet. It's 14 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 2: the culmination of nineteen months of work to try and 15 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: get changed and having to relive why I'm pushing through 16 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 2: with this has been really, really hard, But it is 17 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: also an amazing feeling to know that we have actually 18 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: managed to make that change. 19 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: You should be really proud because you have advocated so 20 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: hard to you know, to make a change and to 21 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: hopefully stop what has happened to your family from happening 22 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: to any other family. 23 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it's been Like I said, it's been really 24 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 2: good asweet. I spent most of yesterday afternoon just crying. 25 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: It was. 26 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm not even sure how to describe it. 27 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: It was. 28 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 29 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: And I cannot even begin to pretend to understand how 30 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: you feel, Samara, you know ever, but I would imagine 31 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: it is it is like reopening a wound every time 32 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: you have to talk about this situation and every time 33 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: you talk about what happened your son, even though you 34 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: know the changes are hopefully going to be a positive. 35 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 2: Thing, absolutely, And that's why I think that's why I 36 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: can sort of keep pushing through it is you know, 37 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, and I've said this 38 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 2: the whole whole way along as I just don't want 39 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: any other family to have to go through this. And 40 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 2: I guess at the end of the day, for me, 41 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: that's what keeps pushing me on is knowing how the 42 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 2: last nineteen months have been for us. I just if 43 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 2: there's anything I can do to stop another parent from 44 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 2: hearing those words, or you know, another sister from having 45 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: to grow up without her brother, then I will do 46 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 2: what I can to stop that from happening. 47 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: I know the legislative changes are going to mean that 48 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: a breach of bail will become an offense for all, 49 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: and electronic monitoring is going to be mandatory for the 50 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: few repeat serious offenders who are still granted by Do 51 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: you think that change is going to make a difference. 52 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 2: Yes, I do. Keeping an eye on where people are 53 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: and making sure that they're adhering to their bail conditions 54 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 2: as well as I guess you're just keep coming back 55 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 2: to the fact that our offender was out unbailed. There's 56 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 2: no way that you're ever going to get in front 57 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 2: of every single person, but you know, just the hope 58 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 2: that you know, people going out and knowing I guess 59 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 2: in the back of the head that you know, if 60 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: I do this, I'm not going to get unveil. I 61 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: am going to be stuck in and remand for whatever 62 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 2: amount of time it might hopefully just you know, make 63 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: them think slightly twice about what their actions will be. 64 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: If that makes sense. 65 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. You know, Look, I really hope that 66 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: it does make people think twice about the way in 67 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: which they're behaving, and that it does make people, you know, 68 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: I really consider the fact that they if they do 69 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: commit a violent offense that they're going to wind up 70 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: in a lot of trouble, not think that they're going 71 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: to get away with it. And I know that that, 72 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: rightly or wrongly, that has been the belief of a 73 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 1: lot of Territorians for quite some time, feeling as though 74 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: people are committing crimes and they're really not being a 75 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: ramification to some of those crimes. 76 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, We've issue a multiple times and I'm course, 77 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 2: I don't have the stats in front of me at 78 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: the moment, but there is a lot of subjective evidence 79 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: out there to show that a lot of these crimes 80 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: are repeat offenders who are out on bail. And that 81 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 2: relation sends me because there's no sircu breaker in the 82 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 2: middle to go hate, no, don't do this, because you're 83 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 2: not going to go front the police in the police 84 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: watchhouse or go to sit the next day and be 85 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 2: allowed to go home. So getting in front of those 86 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 2: people and going hey, don't do it to start with 87 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 2: because there are going to be these consequences to me 88 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: is a really big thing because I just really hope 89 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 2: that it makes some people, you know, think about what 90 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: their actions are going to result in. 91 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: Samaraw. We know the chief Minister has also said that 92 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: they're going to make it quicker and easier for police 93 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: to use handheld knife scanners known as wands. Is that 94 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: something you'd wanted to see? And do you think that 95 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: that's going to, you know, to help in some way? 96 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. The current model that wandering is under 97 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 2: is quite convoluted. The plotard to be able to the police, 98 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 2: to be able to wander, it's really quite quite difficult. 99 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 2: These changes will make it easier to get permission to 100 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 2: want because of like with this floatart, it's got to 101 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: come from up the top. They can't just go, oh, 102 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,119 Speaker 2: I'm just going to go out and I'm just going 103 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 2: to wand for the sake of it, there are guidelines 104 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: behind it. But the reality is is that there is 105 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 2: a lot of people carrying knives in places where you know, 106 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 2: the general public are So for the police to be 107 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 2: able to go and try and get some of these 108 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 2: knives off the street at the point of contact, it 109 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 2: can I think it can only help just to drive down, 110 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 2: you know, and again thinking about okay, if I carry 111 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: a knife, am I going to get caught? Maybe that 112 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 2: might make someone go oh, okay, I'll put that back. 113 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 2: I'll not take it out. 114 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: And I know there's been some discussion about the fact that, 115 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: you know, as part of one of these changes, police 116 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: can use WANs in more public places, not just high 117 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: risk areas, but including public transport and schools. And there'd 118 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: been some people that were sort of going, you know, 119 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 1: I don't know whether they should be able to be 120 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: used in schools. You know, for me, as a parent 121 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: of children that are at school, I don't have a 122 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: big issue with it. I think if the school has 123 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: a concern that somebody's armed, or if the police have 124 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: a concern that somebody's armed, well wouldn't you want them 125 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: to know that? 126 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 2: Oh? I absolutely agree. I have seen a bit of 127 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 2: pushback on that, you know that, you know, the general 128 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: concessors seems to be that, you know, it's going to 129 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 2: be kids again to be wanded on their way into school, 130 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: They're going to be searched every day, and that's just 131 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 2: not the case. It's going to from my understanding, it's 132 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: going to come from, I guess vainly sorry, mainly the principal, 133 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 2: who is going to know that students, they're going to 134 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 2: know what's going on in their school, and the request 135 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: for wanding will almost always probably come from whoever is 136 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 2: in charge of the school at that point in time. 137 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 2: It's not just going to be around and hey, let's 138 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 2: look up and start wanting kids for the fund of it, 139 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 2: the fun of it. So there's a lot more to 140 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 2: it than then they're on the. 141 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: Surface, Samara, Is there any area with this legislation that 142 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: you feel maybe didn't go far enough or is there 143 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: anything that's been missed out? Or have you have you 144 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: had a good look through or had a good chat 145 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: with the Chief Minister and found that it's pretty comprehensive. 146 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 2: It is pretty comprehensive. There is one thing I would 147 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:38,719 Speaker 2: like to see added in and that is a consideration 148 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 2: to veil for people who are defending themselves, particularly in 149 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 2: domestic violence or intimate partner violence situations. I think that 150 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: those cases should be allowed to be looked at with 151 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 2: discretion by the police as to whether or not they're 152 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 2: going to move forward and charge. 153 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: So do you sort of mean just hearing that on 154 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: a practical sense, do you mean if, for example, a 155 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: victim of domestic violence, you know it hurts the perpetrator 156 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: allegedly and you know is actually defending themselves in that process. 157 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly exactly it. 158 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I hadn't even thought of that, so that 159 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: is something that I'll have a closer look at when 160 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: Parliament does sit next week. Are you going to be 161 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:31,599 Speaker 1: here when parliament sits, Samara. 162 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 2: Yes, I absolutely will be. I'm coming up next week 163 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 2: to sit in Parliament and what these changes be passed 164 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 2: into legislation. 165 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I really appreciate your time this morning. There's 166 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: messages coming through this morning. There's one from Deb in Pinelands. 167 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: Deb says, well done, Samaraw I'm so very proud of you. 168 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: I don't think these bail laws will make offenders think twice, 169 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: but the offenders will be put behind bars and no 170 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: longer be able to hurt any and the public will 171 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 1: be safe from their violence. That one from debin Pinelands 172 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: and plenty of other messages coming through a lot of 173 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: support for you, Samara, and. 174 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: I am really really grateful for that. And without the 175 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 2: support of the community of the Northern Territory, we couldn't 176 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 2: have made these changes happen. So I'm extremely grateful for 177 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 2: all of the support, Samara. 178 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: Lavity good to catch up with you as always. Thank 179 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: you very much for having a chat. With me once 180 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: again this morning. 181 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 2: You're welcome. Thank you so much, Toby. I really appreciate it. 182 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: Thank you