1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,159 Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:10,120 Speaker 2: want answers. 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 1: Now good. This is doctor Justin Colson. Welcome to the 5 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: Happy Families Podcast. Last week we interviewed Julie Lithcott Haims. 6 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: She's going to be in our upcoming Happy Family's teen Summit. 7 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: More details to come soon. Today I've decided to give 8 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: you a sneak peek into someone else who is going 9 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: to be in the summit, who is just extraordinary. His 10 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: name is doctor Lendard Sachs. He's a family physician GP 11 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 1: an MD, but he's also got a PhD in psychology. 12 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: In fact, this guy has done kind of everything, written 13 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: a bunch of New York Times bestselling books, Wide Gender Matters, 14 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: Boys Adrift, Girls on the Edge, and The Collapse of Parenting. 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: That was the New York Times bestseller that he had. 16 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: Most recently, he's been a guest all over TV and 17 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: media right around the world. He's written like so much 18 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: stuff academically, and he's going to be joining us for 19 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: the upcoming Happy Families teen Summit. But I wanted to 20 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: give you a sneak peek because this teen Summit is 21 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: going to be so darn good. Julian Live Gotjeyms. We 22 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: talked to her last week. Dr Sachs today we begin 23 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: our conversation talking about his book Boys Adrifts, and the 24 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: focus of that book, how teen boys all around the 25 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 1: world are struggling with the challenges of modern life. 26 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 2: It's not just one factor, it's at least five factors, 27 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: and the factors are unrelated to one another. It's a 28 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 2: perfect storm of unrelated factors coming together to create this 29 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 2: growing proportion of boys who are disengaged. But what's really 30 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: new is that the many of the boys aren't bothered, 31 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: some are, Some have the senset boy, something's not right here. 32 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: I shouldn't be living in my parents' home at twenty 33 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: eight years of age. But you know, way back in 34 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: two thousand and six, there was a movie came out 35 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 2: called Failure to Launch, starting Matthew McConaughey as a handsome, funny, 36 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 2: friendly young man in his early thirties who's not really 37 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 2: working and not looking for work and living in his parents' home. 38 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 2: And I wrote a commentary about that movie because I said, look, 39 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: I know why this movie is so popular. It was 40 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: unexpectedly the number one movie in the United States. It 41 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: didn't have a big budget, didn't have big marketing, but 42 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: was ruled the charts for weeks. I said, I know why. 43 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 2: I know why this movie is so popular because we 44 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 2: all know someone like this, a young man who could 45 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 2: be doing could be doing a lot, and he's not. 46 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 2: He's not motivated to and that's why this movie has 47 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 2: really struck a chord. I claimed. So. My commentary is 48 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: published in the Washington Post. It was the first article 49 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 2: I've ever written that truly went viral. It was picked 50 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 2: up by fifty two newspapers across the United States. I 51 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 2: was interviewed on National Public Radio for forty minutes. In 52 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 2: the studio, I got over two thousand emails over the 53 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: next few weeks, and I ended up devoting a chapter 54 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 2: of the book I was writing at the time, the 55 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: first edition of Boys Adrift, to all the emails I got, 56 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: because they were really interesting. From girlfriends, wives, mothers, but 57 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: also from the young men themselves, many of whom said, Hey, 58 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 2: get off my back. There's more than one way to 59 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 2: be human. We don't all have to be this hard 60 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 2: working entrepreneur striving to get ahead. What's wrong with spending 61 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: most of my time in my bedroom playing video games 62 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: and it was really striking. I included some of those 63 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: emails in the chapter as well, because the notion that 64 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: old people by which I mean people over thirty five 65 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 2: have about what makes a good life are not shared 66 00:03:54,760 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: by some younger people. The assumption that if you're not disabled, 67 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 2: you should be working to earn a living is an 68 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 2: assumption that is not shared by a significant chunk of 69 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 2: men under thirty Right. 70 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 1: Now, obviously, we've got a whole raft of reasons that, 71 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: as you said, you've got on the cover of this book, 72 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: and the book is primarily about But I wonder if 73 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: we can talk about why that is and why there's 74 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: a gender discrepancy. Why is it that the boys feel 75 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: that way but the girls don't. 76 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, If anything, the girls have gone to the other extreme. 77 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 2: The girls are anxious and concerned and feel that whatever 78 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: they're doing it's not enough. They need to do more. 79 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 2: There's been a tremendous rise in anxiety and depression across 80 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: Australia and New Zealand, as there has been across the 81 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: United States and Canada, as there has been across Western Europe. 82 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: Tremendous rise in anxiety and depression among girls. And in 83 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: my own practice, you know, as a family, I can 84 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: tell you about a family where the parents are very 85 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 2: concerned about their son who is a goofball, who's not 86 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: working hard and isn't concerned about his poor marks at school. 87 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 2: And the parents are very concerned about that. But I 88 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 2: also know the daughter, and the daughter is having trouble 89 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 2: sleeping at night. She's anxious. She's worried about where she's 90 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 2: going to university, whether her parents will be able to 91 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 2: afford university. But she's getting good marks, and she has 92 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: lots of friends. But she's secretly cutting herself with razor 93 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 2: blades because cutting herself with leaves the anxiety, and parents 94 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: don't even know this is happening. She cuts herself on 95 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: her upper inner thigh, whether parents don't look or see. 96 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 2: Both these kids are struggling, but they're struggling in very 97 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 2: different ways. The boy, he's perfectly happy. You know, I'm 98 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: a psychologist, I have a family doctor. As near as 99 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: I can tell, this boy is very happy with his 100 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: sixty five inch flat screen and his pornography and his 101 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: online video games. His sister is miserable, she's anxious, she's depressed. 102 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 2: Both these kids are struggling. Neither of these kids are flourishing, 103 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: but the parents aren't really seeing the girls distress because 104 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: on the surface, everything's fine. She's earning good marks, she 105 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: has lots of friends. They don't even know about the cutting. 106 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 2: So girls are struggling, boys are struggling, but they're struggling 107 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 2: in very different ways. 108 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 1: It also sounds like there's a different level of a win. 109 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: In fact, you're saying that the boys are struggling, but 110 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: the boys are struggling according to us, not according to them. 111 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 2: Yes, that's a good way of summarizing it. 112 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: Whereas the girls are struggling according to them, but perhaps 113 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: not according to us. 114 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: That's right, well, and that reflects the you know, I'll 115 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 2: be very blunt when I do presentations. So the Peel 116 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: District School Board in Mississaugo WHI she's just outside Toronto, Ontario, Canada, 117 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 2: hired me to lead a workshop on Boys a Drift 118 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 2: and Girls on the Edge. For Boys a Drift, we 119 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: sold out the venue, the Living Arts Center in Mississauga, 120 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: which she's two hundred and fifty. Even though they charged 121 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: one hundred dollars apiece to attend. We sold out. Had 122 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: we had a waiting list for the Girls on the Edge. 123 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:25,559 Speaker 2: We only sold about half. We filled half the house. 124 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 2: There's much less interest in anxious girls than there are 125 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: in lazy boys. 126 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: Fascinating when I have a conversation like this, especially with 127 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: somebody like yourself, Leonard. There are three questions that I'm 128 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: interested in answering, and what I've discovered is people have 129 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: an area of strength in answering them, but nobody really 130 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: covers all three particularly well. I sense this might be 131 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: different with you. The three questions are what, why, and 132 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: how So the what we've already sort of covered off 133 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: a little bit. The what is We've got a different 134 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: way of responding to the world betweens and girls. Boys 135 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: are pretty happy with their lives but aren't really going anywhere. 136 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: They're not particularly productive, And again we're speaking generally. There 137 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: are many boys who are amazing over old. 138 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,239 Speaker 2: Well, and also there are many boys who are not happy. 139 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: I just spoke in Lone Tree, Colorado, where a fourteen 140 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 2: year old boy took his own life because he wasn't 141 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: happy with the way things are going, So I don't 142 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 2: want to generalize there. Again, there are many boys who 143 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 2: are perfectly happy, not achieving and living off their parents. 144 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 2: But there are some boys who are deeply distressed and 145 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 2: some who are suicidal. But I also want to add 146 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: part of that, what is this growing gender gap in 147 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 2: achievement that's not just in mindset. You look across university 148 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 2: who earned a university qualification in Australia last year, you 149 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 2: find that women outnumbered men by fifty nine to forty one. 150 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 2: That's a huge change compared with fifty years years ago 151 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: when men outnumbered women at university in Australia. And I've 152 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 2: done this presentation across Australia and in New Zealand, and 153 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 2: in England and in Scotland using British data, Australia data, 154 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,719 Speaker 2: a Kiwi data, whatever, because all these countries it's very 155 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 2: easy to pull up these numbers and then people will say, well, 156 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 2: why does it matter. Fifty years ago women outnumbered men 157 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 2: at university and nobody was too excuse me. Fifty years 158 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 2: ago men outnumbered women at university, no one was concerned 159 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 2: about it. Now women outnumbered men at university by about 160 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 2: the same proportion. Why should we care? And I've got 161 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 2: a good answer. Actually, it's three words that the researchers 162 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 2: have come up with. Those three words are educational assortative mating. 163 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 2: What the researchers mean by that is that if a 164 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 2: woman has earned a four year qualification at university, and 165 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 2: if she's going to marry a man, she has a 166 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 2: number of qualifications in mind for her husband. But it 167 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 2: turns out but educational attainment is very important to her. 168 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 2: She is looking for a man who has equal or 169 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 2: greater educational attainment. That was not true fifty years ago. 170 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 2: Fifty years ago, if a man was going to marry 171 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 2: a woman, he might have a number of qualifications in 172 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 2: mind for his bride, but it turns out that educational 173 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 2: attainment was not one of them. If she was pretty, 174 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 2: that would pretty much take care of it. Fifty years ago, 175 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,319 Speaker 2: the executive would marry his secretary. But today, if a 176 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 2: woman's an executive, she's not going to marry the man 177 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 2: who's serving her coffee. She's not. She's looking for a 178 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 2: man who has equal or greater educational attainment. And there 179 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 2: are not enough men, not enough good men to go around. 180 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 2: And this is true not only of university educated women, 181 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 2: this is true across the board. So again, I'm a 182 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: family doctor in my own practice. A woman I know well, 183 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 2: I've known since she was a little girl, but this 184 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 2: story takes place she's about twenty two years old. I said, Lauren, 185 00:10:57,920 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 2: I bumped into breath the other day, and he's just 186 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 2: going on and on about how great you are, and 187 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 2: how funny you are and how beautiful you are. And 188 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 2: he said, he's asked you to marry him twice. Lauren, 189 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 2: why don't you want to marry the father of your 190 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: two kids? And she said, doctor Sex, I already got 191 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 2: two babies at home. I don't need a third. If 192 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: a woman's going to marry a man, she's looking for 193 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 2: a man who has equal or greater achievement ambition as 194 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 2: what she has. And there are not enough good men 195 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 2: to go around. And this is driving the rapid decline 196 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 2: in the marriage rate that we observe across Australia, New Zealand, Canada, 197 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 2: the United States, and indeed across Europe. There are not 198 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: enough good men to go around. That's why it matters, 199 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 2: That's what. That's the what. 200 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, this ties back into the WAD, and that is 201 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: we've got boys who are just not They're failing to 202 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: as you said, failing to launch, failing to thrive. Recognizing 203 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: that some are doing great, but over always seeing this 204 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: distinctive pattern across nations in the West. So that's the 205 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: what now. I guess what I'd love to do as 206 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: we explore this conversation is unpack the why, which very 207 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: few people do well, and then talk a bit about 208 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: the how. In other words, how do we move forward? 209 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: There are a couple of other watts that I want 210 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: to touch on before we get there. 211 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 2: Though. 212 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 1: When I initially contacted you, it was under the inspiration 213 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: of a marketing campaign. It's a pr campaign from Mabeling, 214 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 1: one of the major makeup companies globally. They got a 215 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: couple of boys, well not boys, a couple of men 216 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: with big followings on Twitch and Twitter and Tumblr and whatever. 217 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, all the different social media is a 218 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: whole lot of these guys. They sat down, they put 219 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: their headsets on so that they could do some games, 220 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: but using technology, their voices were turned into female voices, 221 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: and they joined the games, and they had an opportunity 222 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: to feel the way it feels when you're or a 223 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: girl playing in a man's world. I guess now, these 224 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: guys were not particularly surprised by what had happened. They 225 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: didn't act like they were shocked because they've played the 226 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: games and they've heard all these kinds of things, but 227 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: I get the sense that they felt it for the 228 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: first time. They felt what it must have been like 229 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: for a girl trying a game and being insulted, being 230 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: sworn at, being ignored, being targeted and shot. These guys 231 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: are very, very good at the game, but they had 232 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: a horrible experience, and it was a wonderful empathy thing. 233 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: The reason I wanted to talk to you is not 234 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: only are we dealing with a gender gap in motivation 235 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: and productivity, an a gender gap in terms of academic 236 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: achievement and desire for excellence, but we're dealing with I'm 237 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: going to just call it what I see it as 238 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 1: misogyny and abuse, particularly in the online world, from males 239 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: directed specifically to females, at a level that seems to 240 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: me unprecedented. It's like the accessibility, in the anonymity and 241 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: the all pervasiveness of the online world has just accelerate 242 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: what's going on here. And I'd love to have you 243 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: talked a bit more about the what around that. Why 244 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: is it that pornography is such a problem, the gaming 245 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: is such a problem, and that boys are thinking it's 246 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: okay to behave like this, what is going on here? 247 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: And maybe a little bit of why so. 248 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 2: I wrote another book called The Collapse of Parenting. In 249 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: the first chapter of that book is called the Culture 250 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 2: of Disrespect. The Culture of Disrespect, where I assert that 251 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 2: really worldwide Anglophone culture has become a culture of disrespect, 252 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 2: by which I mean a culture in which it's considered 253 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 2: funny to be disrespectful to others. Boys are not born 254 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: knowing what it means to be gentlemen. They have to 255 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 2: be taught, and we no longer teach them, and so 256 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 2: they looked at the marketplace, and the marketplace has changed. 257 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 2: A generation ago, the most popular hit songs, the most 258 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: popular television shows taught boys that a good man is courteous, respectful. Today, 259 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 2: boys are immersed in the culture of YouTube and TikTok videos, 260 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 2: where the most popular men I'm talking now about artists 261 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 2: like Drake, Bruno Mars and Lil nase X, who I 262 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 2: see are almost as popular in Australia as they are 263 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 2: in the United States, are relentlessly disrespectful and address women 264 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 2: using language that we cannot use here and boasting about 265 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 2: being disrespectful to women. Bruno Mars earn six Grammys, which 266 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 2: is the highest award of recurring artists can earn in 267 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 2: the United States, earn six Grammys for his song That's 268 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: what I Like, where he's addressing a woman he doesn't know, 269 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 2: asking her to turn around and drop it for a 270 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 2: player in return for money. He's offering money for sex 271 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 2: for a woman to have sex with him, and this 272 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 2: earned six Grammys, including the Grammy for Best Song. You know. 273 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 2: Imagine a man in the workplace approaching a female colleague 274 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 2: and saying, hey, baby girl, what's happening, which is quoting 275 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 2: from the song, and then offering her money for sex. Well, 276 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 2: he'd be fired, or if he's lucky, he'd be allowed 277 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 2: to keep his job on condition that he attend a 278 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 2: workshop where he would learn that addressing a young woman 279 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 2: as you and your blank is objectification and never permitted, 280 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 2: that offering a woman money for sex is unacceptable. 281 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: But he might. 282 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 2: Recently respond that's what Bruno Mars did in his song, 283 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 2: and he's had two billion views on his YouTube video, 284 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 2: number one hit song and six Grammys the Best Song. 285 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 2: How should a young man know? If he's received no instruction? 286 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 2: Boys like girls are not by nature good, and here 287 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 2: we dig into something that I think is profound. The 288 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 2: Western tradition, by which I mean the tritiradition we trace 289 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 2: back to the Greeks, the Romans, and the Hebrews recognize 290 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 2: that people are an easily flawed and that if we 291 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 2: don't govern ourselves and have systems in place to govern 292 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 2: our evil impulses, bad things will happen. 293 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: For the House and the whys of boys being adrift, 294 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: and a whole lot more. You will need to sign 295 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: up for the Happy Family's upcoming teen Summit. The name 296 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: will be revealed soon. The summit will be available soon, 297 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: but for now wait, just letting you know it's coming 298 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: and there are going to be some incredible people like 299 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: doctor Leonard Sachs and like Julie Lithcotteims and the list 300 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: just keeps on getting better and better. I'll tell you 301 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: more about it soon. All the details and the interview 302 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: in full coming up soon with this Happy Family's teen Summit. 303 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: Keep your ear out for it. I'll let you know 304 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: as soon as I can. The Happy Families podcast is 305 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: produced by Justin Rawan, from which Media. Craig Bruce is 306 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: our executive producer. For more about making your family happier. 307 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 1: Visit us at happyfamilies dot com, dot you, and keep 308 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: your eyes peeled for the Happy Family's Teens Summit not 309 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: far away.