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Speaker 1: Few people getting in contact with us about the situation

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Speaker 1: with Tansil Rahman. Now one from Phil in Bayview, and

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Speaker 1: Phil says, Hi, Katie, seriously, I worked in the NT

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Speaker 1: government and the BS allegations made against me by lazy

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Speaker 1: shoulder climbers was real workplace bullying is like the world's

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Speaker 1: racist fascism and other lefty throwaways mean nothing.

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Speaker 2: Look at what Potter got away with over this.

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Speaker 1: BS move on to important things, says Bill. Somebody else said,

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Speaker 1: ask questions that can be answered. Leah can't violate privacy

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Speaker 1: laws with regard to hr get a life.

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Speaker 2: Selena says that one.

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Speaker 1: Now, look, we always like a bit of history in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: And one woman who knows a.

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Speaker 1: Lot about what's happened over the last sixteen to twenty

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Speaker 1: years is Kesier Puric, the former member of well Goida

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Speaker 1: and also the former Speaker of the Northern Territories Legislative Assembly.

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Speaker 3: Get a Kesier, Hey, good morning, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Is you know this situation that we're seeing unfold at

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Speaker 1: the moment with the Member for Fronglem, Tansel Rahman. He's

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Speaker 1: been accused of bullying by two female stuff as in

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Speaker 1: what's described as a very serious matter. This is according

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Speaker 1: to the ABC. Now Kesse in your experience, is this

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Speaker 1: the first time that we've had a member of Parliament

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Speaker 1: accused of bullying.

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Speaker 3: No, it's not, Katie, and I have to admit I

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Speaker 3: was a bit surprised and shocked to hear of the

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Speaker 3: allegations and the subsequent response to them, which has been

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Speaker 3: pretty low and poor in my view. But yes, when

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Speaker 3: I was speaking, there was an incident where a Labor

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Speaker 3: minister did I suppose the word is bully or she

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Speaker 3: was She was just not kind and very unprofessional in

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Speaker 3: my view, towards a SEALP staffer and the Sealpea stuffer

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Speaker 3: did come to me as the Speaker, because the Speaker

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Speaker 3: is responsible for the precinct of Parliament and to ensure

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Speaker 3: it's a safe, safe and you're working environment. And so

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Speaker 3: we spoke to the minister in question and she did

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Speaker 3: apologize to the staff She said that she made the

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Speaker 3: comments in jest, but the staffer didn't take it that

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Speaker 3: way and the matter got resolved. I mean, it's unprecedented

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Speaker 3: and it generally and normally would not happen and should

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Speaker 3: not happen. I mean, it's such a manifestly unfair and

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Speaker 3: unlevel playing field. You've got a member of a parliament,

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Speaker 3: you know, particularly if it was a minister, but you

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Speaker 3: have a member of Parliament who is in a very

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Speaker 3: important role, and of course the more seniors they are,

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Speaker 3: the more importance that is placed upon them to act

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Speaker 3: in a certain way. And then you have a staffer

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Speaker 3: and in this case it's believed to be the Legislate

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Speaker 3: Assembly stuff out of the committee's area, that we're doing

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Speaker 3: their job or going about their business when this incident

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Speaker 3: is supposedly meant to have taken place, and they say

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Speaker 3: it's an HR matter, Well, yes it is an HR matter,

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Speaker 3: and yes the staff lodged a complaint with presuming their

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Speaker 3: head of department and then across up to the clerk

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Speaker 3: and then to the Speaker, and it's been dealt with. Well,

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Speaker 3: my question is how has it been dealt with? If

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Speaker 3: this incident did occur, and I have no doubt that

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Speaker 3: there was some words said, because you know, this is

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Speaker 3: not a people don't take these matters lightly. They would

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Speaker 3: have consciously thought about it and have acted accordingly. And

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Speaker 3: no doubt if there was some the rating of the

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Speaker 3: staff that they probably would have been very shocked. So

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Speaker 3: but how has it been handled? That's what I think

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Speaker 3: people want to know. And if something has taken place

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Speaker 3: and some people have been genuinely offended and heard are embarrassed,

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Speaker 3: then the member has a responsibility to step up and apologize.

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Speaker 3: And as the case was with the previous Labor minister,

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Speaker 3: do you.

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Speaker 1: Remember that situation now, Kesy, and now that you raise it,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure you know I can. I can say

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Speaker 1: it was a situation if I remember correctly where Evil

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Speaker 1: Ler was in a lift and there was a comment

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Speaker 1: made to a CLP staff that that CLP staff it

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Speaker 1: took offensively and then, like you said, it was obviously raised.

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Speaker 1: And then I remember speaking to Eve at the time

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Speaker 1: and she had she had apologized and had said, you know,

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Speaker 1: she didn't mean it in an offensive way and if

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Speaker 1: it was taken that way, you know, then she wanted

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Speaker 1: to apologize for it.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's correct, and the matter did get resolved, and

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Speaker 3: the silpy staffer did go to the head of the

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Speaker 3: Chief Minister's department at the time and speak to her,

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Speaker 3: and I must have met the replies from that person

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Speaker 3: at that time wasn't wasn't too impressive, But you know

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Speaker 3: the matter did get resolved, and yes, yes, it's anything

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Speaker 3: to do with humans is human relations, you know, I

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Speaker 3: mean that's just a given. But the question is that,

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Speaker 3: you know, what comfort do these staff have. The member

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Speaker 3: for Fong Lim is still on various committees, is on

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Speaker 3: the House Committee. I think he might be on a

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Speaker 3: couple of other committees, so he will be interacting with

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Speaker 3: these staff in the future. So how has that been addressed?

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Speaker 3: You know, there is there comfort to these staff if

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Speaker 3: they see this member in the building during sittings.

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Speaker 2: So you know, I don't We just don't know at

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Speaker 2: the moment.

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Speaker 3: I mean, when you've done, because it hasn't been resolved.

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Speaker 3: I don't believe it doesn't sound like it's been resolved.

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Speaker 3: And you know, it's one of those things that happens

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Speaker 3: in political life. You know, in a job like if

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Speaker 3: something went wrong in during the committee's travels around the territory,

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Speaker 3: well so bid something went wrong, but you look at

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Speaker 3: fixing the issue and making sure that you've got processes

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Speaker 3: in places that things don't go wrong in the future

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Speaker 3: and someone doesn't get all cranky and carried away and

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Speaker 3: just yell yell at everyone around them. So I'm I'm

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Speaker 3: not privy to it. You weren't privy to it, but

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Speaker 3: we're led to believe this is what happened. So if

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Speaker 3: it has happened, and the Chief Minister and others are saying, yes,

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Speaker 3: it's been resolved, how has it been resolved? Because I

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Speaker 3: want comfort that the DLA staffers are being treated very

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Speaker 3: fairly and appropriately and their concerns and hurt has been addressed.

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Speaker 3: So I guess it's beholden upon the member I believe

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Speaker 3: to step forward in some shape or form and to

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Speaker 3: address the issue.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you, and I think that he does

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Speaker 1: realistically need to come out and and you know, say,

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Speaker 1: well whether he wants to apologize as well.

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Speaker 2: Keys here, it's not the first time we obviously.

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Speaker 1: We've spoken about that other situation that happened several years ago.

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Speaker 1: But the other one that's been raised with me just

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Speaker 1: a couple of times over the last day or so

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Speaker 1: is the situation where there was allegedly like a bit

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Speaker 1: of an altercation if I understand correctly, between Duran Young

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Speaker 1: and Josh Burgoyne.

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Speaker 2: In the I don't know if you were the speaker.

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Speaker 3: At that point, I can't quite remember, but yes, I

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Speaker 3: think Duran Young was a staffer with the government, and yes,

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Speaker 3: there was quite some allegedly and well, you know, I believe,

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Speaker 3: I believe Josh. And if Duran says yes, you know

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Speaker 3: I did say something and I think he has said something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well he apologized.

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Speaker 3: He both said yes, and you know, different sides of

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Speaker 3: the politics can get quite ansry with each other, but

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Speaker 3: he did, he did apologize and he was probably might

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Speaker 3: have been trying to be a smart alec or he

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Speaker 3: just was a bit cranky with the c LP, who knows.

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Speaker 3: But you know, there was the other incident too, which

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Speaker 3: did cost the previous member for Fnglimb the Deputy Chief ministership,

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Speaker 3: and that was when Dave Tolner went into a junior

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Speaker 3: staffer in one of the minister's offices and made jokes

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Speaker 3: about him in regards to you know, homophobic issues and

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Speaker 3: gayness and all that sort of stuff. And it was

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Speaker 3: very very unpleasant and nasty and it's such an uneven

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Speaker 3: playing field. You know, you've got a deputy Chief Minister

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Speaker 3: and a junior staff and that cost him the Deputy

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Speaker 3: Chief ministership over I remember the public, you know, and

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Speaker 3: that's just so wrong.

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Speaker 1: And this is there's so many like there is actually,

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Speaker 1: if you look back historically, there's a number of situations

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Speaker 1: where different things have happened and the response, I suppose

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Speaker 1: is there as well historically for people to see Kezier.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm copying a bit of flack over this.

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Speaker 2: I've got to tell you.

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Speaker 1: On the tech sign today, people going, come on, Katie,

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Speaker 1: this doesn't even matter. You know, it's an accusation. It's

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Speaker 1: a h R matter. I mean, like, why do you

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Speaker 1: think it's important?

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Speaker 2: Their people know.

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Speaker 3: It's important because the person involved is a member of parliament.

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Speaker 3: People have placed their trust in that member, they have

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Speaker 3: placed their aspirations, and they want to look to that person.

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Speaker 3: That person is meant to be a leader in their

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Speaker 3: electric community and possibly even in the greater Northern Territory community.

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Speaker 3: So it's not an HR issue of an industrial firm

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Speaker 3: or an accounting firm or any other firm or business

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Speaker 3: or shops. It is the Parliament of the Northern Territory

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Speaker 3: and people look to that parliament and they look to

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Speaker 3: those people to lead by example, and this doesn't cut it.

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Speaker 3: That's my view. I'm the least sioky person as you know,

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Speaker 3: and you know, like tough en up princess kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: But and I do know that this card can get

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Speaker 3: played in workplaces when people are asked to do their job.

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Speaker 3: Oh you're bullying me, Well, you know, get over do

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Speaker 3: your job. This is not that. This is something completely different,

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Speaker 3: and that's why people should try and understand. I mean,

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Speaker 3: when there's a problem, when you're elected, the first person

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Speaker 3: people go to is their local member, you know, so

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Speaker 3: you look to that person to deliver you outcomes, and

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Speaker 3: then you look to that person to lead in issues

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Speaker 3: that you are have concerned to you in your community.

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Speaker 3: So that's why it's different. So I think it's behold

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Speaker 3: upon the member to do something to bring comfort back

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Speaker 3: and to bring to bring the standard back into the parliament.

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Speaker 3: I mean, forget the ajibarji in the parliament. That too

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Speaker 3: can be addressed separately. But this has clearly upset not

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Speaker 3: one person, but two people. I think it needs to

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Speaker 3: be get resolved somehow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Look, I always appreciate your time, always appreciate your outsight.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much for having morning. Thank you