WEBVTT - Ceasefire or humanitarian pause: What’s the difference?

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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<v Speaker 1>Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadigl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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<v Speaker 1>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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<v Speaker 1>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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<v Speaker 1>Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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<v Speaker 1>first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Wednesday,

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<v Speaker 2>the fifteenth of November. I'm Emma Gillespie.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Billy fitz Simon's Emma. I feel like we haven't

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<v Speaker 3>even given the context of why we are filling in

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<v Speaker 3>this week. Oh, we just felt like, no, we are

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<v Speaker 3>filling in for Salm and Zara this week whilst they

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<v Speaker 3>are away overseas on a special work trip.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, we're filling in this week, but Sam and

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<v Speaker 2>Zara will be back on the podcast next week. You

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<v Speaker 2>may have heard mention of ceasefire.

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<v Speaker 4>A national call for Israel to cease fire is growing.

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<v Speaker 2>As military and humanitarian calling for.

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<v Speaker 4>A humanitarian humanitarian pauses in the fighting.

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<v Speaker 2>We also mentioned on the podcast on Monday that Foreign

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<v Speaker 2>Minister Penny Wong said she and others wanted to see

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<v Speaker 2>steps taken towards a ceasefire in Gaza.

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<v Speaker 4>We all want to take the next steps towards a ceasefire.

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<v Speaker 2>So what is a ceasefire? How is it different to

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<v Speaker 2>a humanitarian pause? And what's happening in Gaza now? Will

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<v Speaker 2>let you know in the deep dive, But first, what's

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<v Speaker 2>making headlines?

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<v Speaker 3>Billy students in Victoria have disrupted question time after a

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<v Speaker 3>climate strike in state Parliament. A small group of protesters

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<v Speaker 3>from School Strike for Climate held up signs that red

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<v Speaker 3>coal is killing us, with banners pointing to national student

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<v Speaker 3>led climate strikes across the country.

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<v Speaker 2>This Friday, The Arias are being held in Sydney tonight.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the Australian music industry's biggest annual awards ceremony, with

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<v Speaker 2>the Kid Laroi, Kylie Minogue and The Wiggles among the nominees.

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<v Speaker 2>Troy Savanne, who's up for six awards, will also be

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<v Speaker 2>presenting one and fellow nominee Jessica Melboy is performing. The

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<v Speaker 2>ceremony starts at five pm Australian Eastern daylight time. It'll

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<v Speaker 2>be live streamed on STAN with a broadcast on Channel nine.

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<v Speaker 3>Later in the evening, a rescue is underway to save

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<v Speaker 3>almost forty Indian workers trapped in a Himalayan highway tunnel.

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<v Speaker 3>The workers have been trapped for two days after a

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<v Speaker 3>tunnel collapsed in North India. Excavators were brought in to

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<v Speaker 3>dig out debris and create a roue to reach the

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<v Speaker 3>workers to pull them to safety.

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<v Speaker 2>And today's good news, the Kenyan government has announced a

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<v Speaker 2>public holiday dedicated to planting one hundred million seedlings as

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<v Speaker 2>part of a goal to plant fifteen billion trees by

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<v Speaker 2>twenty thirty two in Kenya. It's hoping to increase the

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<v Speaker 2>amount of rainforest coverage in the country and fight climate change,

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<v Speaker 2>with every Kenyan encouraged to plant at least two seedlings billy. Today,

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about the crisis in Israel and Gaza, where

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<v Speaker 2>we've been watching horrific violence unfold for more than a

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<v Speaker 2>month now and the death tolls continue to climb. In

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<v Speaker 2>the last few weeks, though, we've seen governments from around

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<v Speaker 2>the world talk about these concepts of a ceasefire and

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<v Speaker 2>humanitarian pauses, and these terms have come up a lot

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<v Speaker 2>during the major protests that we've seen around the world.

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<v Speaker 2>So I wanted to take an opportunity to step back

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<v Speaker 2>and explain what these terms actually mean, how and why

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<v Speaker 2>they're different, and whether we can expect to see either

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<v Speaker 2>of them happen.

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<v Speaker 3>It is certainly one of the biggest stories in the

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<v Speaker 3>world right now. And before we explain the difference between

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<v Speaker 3>a ceasefire and humanitarian pauses, could you first just give

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<v Speaker 3>us an overview of the latest update on what's been

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<v Speaker 3>happening in Israel and Gaza.

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<v Speaker 2>So, this most recent bout of violence began on October seven.

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<v Speaker 2>That's when Hamas, which Australia lists as a terrorist organization

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<v Speaker 2>and is in control of Gaza, launched an attack on Israel.

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<v Speaker 2>That attack killed an estimated twelve hundred people. Now it

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<v Speaker 2>is worth mentioning that number has jumped around a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit because at first it wasn't fully clear just how

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<v Speaker 2>many people were killed in the attacks. But twelve hundred

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<v Speaker 2>is the latest figure that's been provided by Israel's Foreign Ministry.

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<v Speaker 2>And during the October seven attacks, Hamas also captured about

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred and forty hostages.

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<v Speaker 3>And on those two hundred and forty hostages, I do

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<v Speaker 3>remember that we have done reporting on some of those

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<v Speaker 3>hostages being released, Is that right?

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<v Speaker 2>That's correct, So most of the hostages are still being

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<v Speaker 2>held in Gaza during all of this that four of

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<v Speaker 2>them were released and one other hostage was rescued by

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<v Speaker 2>Israeli forces. Israel responded to the October seven attack by

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<v Speaker 2>declaring war, and since then we have seen a ground

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<v Speaker 2>invasion in Gaza by Israel, with at least eleven thousand

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<v Speaker 2>people killed in Gaza since October seven. That's according to

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<v Speaker 2>Gaza's health ministry, which is run by Hamas, But the

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<v Speaker 2>World Health Organization did tell the BBC this week that

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<v Speaker 2>they have confidence in the Gaza health ministries figures. However,

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<v Speaker 2>these figures actually haven't been updated for a few days now,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's because the ministry's communications in Gaza are down.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's some very brief context about why this latest

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<v Speaker 3>violence broke out. Can you give us an update on

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<v Speaker 3>what the situation in Gaza is?

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<v Speaker 2>So? The UN chief Antonio Guterres recently described the situation

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<v Speaker 2>in Gaza as a quote graveyard for children, and more recently,

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<v Speaker 2>particularly this week, we've been hearing a lot of alarms

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<v Speaker 2>raised about hospitals in Gaza being attacked and two of

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<v Speaker 2>the strip's major hospitals shutting their doors to new patients,

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<v Speaker 2>the World Health Organizations. Ted DROs Gabriosos has expressed his

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<v Speaker 2>concerns about how Garz's healthcare system is struggling to cope

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<v Speaker 2>with so many patients.

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<v Speaker 5>The situation on the ground is impossible to describe. Hospital

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<v Speaker 5>corridors crimed with the injured, the sick, the dying, morgues,

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<v Speaker 5>overflowing surgery without anaesthesia, tens of thousands of displaced people

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<v Speaker 5>sheltering at hospitals, families crammed into overcrowded schools, desperate for

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<v Speaker 5>food and water.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's been over a month since the initial seventh

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<v Speaker 2>of October attack, and in recent weeks there have been

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of calls for the violence to stop, in

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<v Speaker 2>particular violence causing civilian deaths. Last week there was a

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<v Speaker 2>bit of a breakthrough when Israel agreed to what's known

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<v Speaker 2>as a humanitarian pause.

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<v Speaker 3>So the question that we are focusing on today is

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<v Speaker 3>what is a humanitarian pause and in particular, how does

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<v Speaker 3>it differ from a seasfire.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think this is a really important one because

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<v Speaker 2>there has been confusion for many of us. It might

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<v Speaker 2>be the first time we're hearing these kinds of terms

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<v Speaker 2>discussed in the media, but they're not the same thing.

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<v Speaker 2>A humanitarian pause is defined by the UN as a

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<v Speaker 2>temporary cessation of hostilities purely for humanitarian purposes.

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<v Speaker 3>That sounds like a very official definition. What does it

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<v Speaker 3>actually mean.

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<v Speaker 2>This idea of a pause applies to all sides of

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<v Speaker 2>a conflict. So in this case, Israel and Humas to

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<v Speaker 2>come to an agreement to stop fighting for a short period,

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<v Speaker 2>and during that time, sick and wounded civilians could get

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<v Speaker 2>humanitarian relief and medical assistance, or civilians could be given

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<v Speaker 2>a way of leaving a conflict zone, so in this

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<v Speaker 2>case northern Gaza, so that pause provides a window for

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<v Speaker 2>aid and movement. Several countries, including the US, one of

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<v Speaker 2>Israel's closest allies, and Australia were pushing for Israel to

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<v Speaker 2>implement these humanitarian pauses as a way for civilians in

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<v Speaker 2>Gaza to flee. Last week, Israel announced it would agree

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<v Speaker 2>to four hour daily humanitarian pauses.

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<v Speaker 3>So Israel has said that they do agree to these

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<v Speaker 3>daily humanitarian pauses in practice, what does that actually look like?

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<v Speaker 2>So Israel Defense Forces said that it had agreed to

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<v Speaker 2>what it described as tactical local pauses during which civilians

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<v Speaker 2>can move south from the conflict zone in northern Gaza

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<v Speaker 2>via humanitarian corridors so safe passages to get away from

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<v Speaker 2>the fighting. Basically, the UN has confirmed that in light

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<v Speaker 2>of these pauses, quote, tens of thousands of people have

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<v Speaker 2>fled the north of Gaza through a corridor opened by

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<v Speaker 2>the Israeli military.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, the White House provided a bit more detail on

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<v Speaker 3>how these pauses would actually work. What did it say?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so, the White House spokesperson John Kirby mapped it

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<v Speaker 2>out like this. He said, the pause is focused in

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<v Speaker 2>northern Gaza, where a lot of fighting between Israel and

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<v Speaker 2>Hamas has been taking place, including heavy bombardments. A humanitarian

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<v Speaker 2>pause is announced three hours before it takes effect. Civilians

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<v Speaker 2>can get out of the north and travel to safe

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<v Speaker 2>areas in the south through two humanitarian corridors, and the

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<v Speaker 2>pause lasts for a duration of four hours. Right.

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<v Speaker 3>But as I understand that these pauses don't mean an

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<v Speaker 3>end to the violence. They're simply a pause on it.

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<v Speaker 3>A ceasefire, on the other hand, that is the question

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<v Speaker 3>that we are focusing on today. The difference between a

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<v Speaker 3>ceasefire and a humanitarian pause. So what is a ceasefire?

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<v Speaker 2>So we've talked about pauses and this idea of a

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<v Speaker 2>temporary measure or break in conflict that gives civilians the

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<v Speaker 2>chance to leave a conflict zone and maybe access aid,

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<v Speaker 2>but there isn't really any guarantee that violence will stop

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<v Speaker 2>in the long run when we're talking about pauses. On

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<v Speaker 2>the other hand, though, a ceasefire is a longer term idea.

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<v Speaker 2>So ceasefires mean all sides commit to not firing any

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<v Speaker 2>weapons and it would see both sides entering talks, so

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<v Speaker 2>negotiations sometimes hosted by a third party to come to

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<v Speaker 2>an agreement to end the conflict. Israel and Hamas have

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<v Speaker 2>come to many ceasefire agreements before. So two years ago

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<v Speaker 2>fighting broke out between the two sides, and Egypt actually

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<v Speaker 2>held talks that led to a ceasefire being declared after

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<v Speaker 2>eleven days.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, and focusing on the present day, who has been

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<v Speaker 3>calling for a ceasefire?

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<v Speaker 2>One of the loudest voices in the ceasefire conversation has

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<v Speaker 2>been the UN Chief Antonio Guterres. So he has been

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<v Speaker 2>pretty vocal, consistently telling the media about the horrors of

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<v Speaker 2>the violence in Gaza. The UN adopted a resolution last

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<v Speaker 2>month that called for a quote immediate, durable and humanitarian truce.

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<v Speaker 2>Jordan's ambassador, that's the country that brought the resolution to

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<v Speaker 2>the UN said and I quote an urgent need that

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<v Speaker 2>an immediate ceasefire cannot be overstated. Israel and the US

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<v Speaker 2>voted against the resolution, and Australia didn't vote on it

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<v Speaker 2>at all. It said that the resolution didn't outwardly condemn

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<v Speaker 2>the actions of Harmas on the seventh of October. More recently,

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<v Speaker 2>the President of France, Emanuel Macron, also called for a ceasefire.

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<v Speaker 2>He was interviewed by the BBC and said, there needs

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<v Speaker 2>to be a way to stop the ever growing death

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<v Speaker 2>toll from building and building.

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<v Speaker 6>To the civilian submont. All people are bombed and killed,

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<v Speaker 6>so there is no reason for that. Then I called

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<v Speaker 6>for his fire, and I will urge them for his

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<v Speaker 6>fire for and many turns his fire.

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<v Speaker 2>Macron did clarify that Hamas committed terrorist acts on the

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<v Speaker 2>seventh of October, he did outwardly condemn those, and he

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<v Speaker 2>also said that Israel had a right to defend itself.

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<v Speaker 3>And how did Israel react to that. In terms of

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<v Speaker 3>Macron's comments.

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<v Speaker 2>Over and over again, we've seen Israel reject calls for

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<v Speaker 2>a ceasefire throughout this conflict. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has

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<v Speaker 2>consistently said there won't be any ceasefire until all remaining

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<v Speaker 2>hostages have been released from Gaza. Well, there will be

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<v Speaker 2>no ceasefire, general cesfire and Gaza without the release of

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<v Speaker 2>our hostages. And basically leaders in Israel have said there

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<v Speaker 2>will be no cease fire until the hostages are freed.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So we've focused a lot on what other countries

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<v Speaker 3>have had to say about this conflict, but what has

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<v Speaker 3>Australia had to say in all of this.

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<v Speaker 2>Australia formally supported calls for a humanitarian pause, that it

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<v Speaker 2>hasn't gone as far as France as we saw Macron

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<v Speaker 2>doing in that interview with the BBC in calling for

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<v Speaker 2>a ceasefire. However, Foreign Minister Pennywong deviated a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>from the government's official wording during an interview over the

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<v Speaker 2>weekend on the ABC's Insiders program.

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<v Speaker 4>I've seen the comments of President Macron overnight. What I

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<v Speaker 4>would say is we all want to take the next

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<v Speaker 4>steps towards a ceasefire, but it cannot be one sided.

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<v Speaker 4>How Mars still holds hostages, haw Mars is still attacking Israel.

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<v Speaker 2>If we look around the world at the protests going

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<v Speaker 2>on in support of and against all sides of this,

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't seem like this conversation is going anywhere. So

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<v Speaker 2>hopefully we've helped you understand a little bit more today

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<v Speaker 2>about humanitarian pauses, and as we learn more about this

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<v Speaker 2>unfolding situation, we will continue to bring it to you

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<v Speaker 2>in this podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much for joining us on the Daily OS.

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<v Speaker 3>We will be back tomorrow