Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda
Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadigl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges
Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres
Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the
Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Wednesday,
Speaker 2: the fifteenth of November. I'm Emma Gillespie.
Speaker 3: I'm Billy fitz Simon's Emma. I feel like we haven't
Speaker 3: even given the context of why we are filling in
Speaker 3: this week. Oh, we just felt like, no, we are
Speaker 3: filling in for Salm and Zara this week whilst they
Speaker 3: are away overseas on a special work trip.
Speaker 2: That's right, we're filling in this week, but Sam and
Speaker 2: Zara will be back on the podcast next week. You
Speaker 2: may have heard mention of ceasefire.
Speaker 4: A national call for Israel to cease fire is growing.
Speaker 2: As military and humanitarian calling for.
Speaker 4: A humanitarian humanitarian pauses in the fighting.
Speaker 2: We also mentioned on the podcast on Monday that Foreign
Speaker 2: Minister Penny Wong said she and others wanted to see
Speaker 2: steps taken towards a ceasefire in Gaza.
Speaker 4: We all want to take the next steps towards a ceasefire.
Speaker 2: So what is a ceasefire? How is it different to
Speaker 2: a humanitarian pause? And what's happening in Gaza now? Will
Speaker 2: let you know in the deep dive, But first, what's
Speaker 2: making headlines?
Speaker 3: Billy students in Victoria have disrupted question time after a
Speaker 3: climate strike in state Parliament. A small group of protesters
Speaker 3: from School Strike for Climate held up signs that red
Speaker 3: coal is killing us, with banners pointing to national student
Speaker 3: led climate strikes across the country.
Speaker 2: This Friday, The Arias are being held in Sydney tonight.
Speaker 2: It's the Australian music industry's biggest annual awards ceremony, with
Speaker 2: the Kid Laroi, Kylie Minogue and The Wiggles among the nominees.
Speaker 2: Troy Savanne, who's up for six awards, will also be
Speaker 2: presenting one and fellow nominee Jessica Melboy is performing. The
Speaker 2: ceremony starts at five pm Australian Eastern daylight time. It'll
Speaker 2: be live streamed on STAN with a broadcast on Channel nine.
Speaker 3: Later in the evening, a rescue is underway to save
Speaker 3: almost forty Indian workers trapped in a Himalayan highway tunnel.
Speaker 3: The workers have been trapped for two days after a
Speaker 3: tunnel collapsed in North India. Excavators were brought in to
Speaker 3: dig out debris and create a roue to reach the
Speaker 3: workers to pull them to safety.
Speaker 2: And today's good news, the Kenyan government has announced a
Speaker 2: public holiday dedicated to planting one hundred million seedlings as
Speaker 2: part of a goal to plant fifteen billion trees by
Speaker 2: twenty thirty two in Kenya. It's hoping to increase the
Speaker 2: amount of rainforest coverage in the country and fight climate change,
Speaker 2: with every Kenyan encouraged to plant at least two seedlings billy. Today,
Speaker 2: we're talking about the crisis in Israel and Gaza, where
Speaker 2: we've been watching horrific violence unfold for more than a
Speaker 2: month now and the death tolls continue to climb. In
Speaker 2: the last few weeks, though, we've seen governments from around
Speaker 2: the world talk about these concepts of a ceasefire and
Speaker 2: humanitarian pauses, and these terms have come up a lot
Speaker 2: during the major protests that we've seen around the world.
Speaker 2: So I wanted to take an opportunity to step back
Speaker 2: and explain what these terms actually mean, how and why
Speaker 2: they're different, and whether we can expect to see either
Speaker 2: of them happen.
Speaker 3: It is certainly one of the biggest stories in the
Speaker 3: world right now. And before we explain the difference between
Speaker 3: a ceasefire and humanitarian pauses, could you first just give
Speaker 3: us an overview of the latest update on what's been
Speaker 3: happening in Israel and Gaza.
Speaker 2: So, this most recent bout of violence began on October seven.
Speaker 2: That's when Hamas, which Australia lists as a terrorist organization
Speaker 2: and is in control of Gaza, launched an attack on Israel.
Speaker 2: That attack killed an estimated twelve hundred people. Now it
Speaker 2: is worth mentioning that number has jumped around a little
Speaker 2: bit because at first it wasn't fully clear just how
Speaker 2: many people were killed in the attacks. But twelve hundred
Speaker 2: is the latest figure that's been provided by Israel's Foreign Ministry.
Speaker 2: And during the October seven attacks, Hamas also captured about
Speaker 2: two hundred and forty hostages.
Speaker 3: And on those two hundred and forty hostages, I do
Speaker 3: remember that we have done reporting on some of those
Speaker 3: hostages being released, Is that right?
Speaker 2: That's correct, So most of the hostages are still being
Speaker 2: held in Gaza during all of this that four of
Speaker 2: them were released and one other hostage was rescued by
Speaker 2: Israeli forces. Israel responded to the October seven attack by
Speaker 2: declaring war, and since then we have seen a ground
Speaker 2: invasion in Gaza by Israel, with at least eleven thousand
Speaker 2: people killed in Gaza since October seven. That's according to
Speaker 2: Gaza's health ministry, which is run by Hamas, But the
Speaker 2: World Health Organization did tell the BBC this week that
Speaker 2: they have confidence in the Gaza health ministries figures. However,
Speaker 2: these figures actually haven't been updated for a few days now,
Speaker 2: and that's because the ministry's communications in Gaza are down.
Speaker 3: So that's some very brief context about why this latest
Speaker 3: violence broke out. Can you give us an update on
Speaker 3: what the situation in Gaza is?
Speaker 2: So? The UN chief Antonio Guterres recently described the situation
Speaker 2: in Gaza as a quote graveyard for children, and more recently,
Speaker 2: particularly this week, we've been hearing a lot of alarms
Speaker 2: raised about hospitals in Gaza being attacked and two of
Speaker 2: the strip's major hospitals shutting their doors to new patients,
Speaker 2: the World Health Organizations. Ted DROs Gabriosos has expressed his
Speaker 2: concerns about how Garz's healthcare system is struggling to cope
Speaker 2: with so many patients.
Speaker 5: The situation on the ground is impossible to describe. Hospital
Speaker 5: corridors crimed with the injured, the sick, the dying, morgues,
Speaker 5: overflowing surgery without anaesthesia, tens of thousands of displaced people
Speaker 5: sheltering at hospitals, families crammed into overcrowded schools, desperate for
Speaker 5: food and water.
Speaker 2: So it's been over a month since the initial seventh
Speaker 2: of October attack, and in recent weeks there have been
Speaker 2: a lot of calls for the violence to stop, in
Speaker 2: particular violence causing civilian deaths. Last week there was a
Speaker 2: bit of a breakthrough when Israel agreed to what's known
Speaker 2: as a humanitarian pause.
Speaker 3: So the question that we are focusing on today is
Speaker 3: what is a humanitarian pause and in particular, how does
Speaker 3: it differ from a seasfire.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this is a really important one because
Speaker 2: there has been confusion for many of us. It might
Speaker 2: be the first time we're hearing these kinds of terms
Speaker 2: discussed in the media, but they're not the same thing.
Speaker 2: A humanitarian pause is defined by the UN as a
Speaker 2: temporary cessation of hostilities purely for humanitarian purposes.
Speaker 3: That sounds like a very official definition. What does it
Speaker 3: actually mean.
Speaker 2: This idea of a pause applies to all sides of
Speaker 2: a conflict. So in this case, Israel and Humas to
Speaker 2: come to an agreement to stop fighting for a short period,
Speaker 2: and during that time, sick and wounded civilians could get
Speaker 2: humanitarian relief and medical assistance, or civilians could be given
Speaker 2: a way of leaving a conflict zone, so in this
Speaker 2: case northern Gaza, so that pause provides a window for
Speaker 2: aid and movement. Several countries, including the US, one of
Speaker 2: Israel's closest allies, and Australia were pushing for Israel to
Speaker 2: implement these humanitarian pauses as a way for civilians in
Speaker 2: Gaza to flee. Last week, Israel announced it would agree
Speaker 2: to four hour daily humanitarian pauses.
Speaker 3: So Israel has said that they do agree to these
Speaker 3: daily humanitarian pauses in practice, what does that actually look like?
Speaker 2: So Israel Defense Forces said that it had agreed to
Speaker 2: what it described as tactical local pauses during which civilians
Speaker 2: can move south from the conflict zone in northern Gaza
Speaker 2: via humanitarian corridors so safe passages to get away from
Speaker 2: the fighting. Basically, the UN has confirmed that in light
Speaker 2: of these pauses, quote, tens of thousands of people have
Speaker 2: fled the north of Gaza through a corridor opened by
Speaker 2: the Israeli military.
Speaker 3: Now, the White House provided a bit more detail on
Speaker 3: how these pauses would actually work. What did it say?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, the White House spokesperson John Kirby mapped it
Speaker 2: out like this. He said, the pause is focused in
Speaker 2: northern Gaza, where a lot of fighting between Israel and
Speaker 2: Hamas has been taking place, including heavy bombardments. A humanitarian
Speaker 2: pause is announced three hours before it takes effect. Civilians
Speaker 2: can get out of the north and travel to safe
Speaker 2: areas in the south through two humanitarian corridors, and the
Speaker 2: pause lasts for a duration of four hours. Right.
Speaker 3: But as I understand that these pauses don't mean an
Speaker 3: end to the violence. They're simply a pause on it.
Speaker 3: A ceasefire, on the other hand, that is the question
Speaker 3: that we are focusing on today. The difference between a
Speaker 3: ceasefire and a humanitarian pause. So what is a ceasefire?
Speaker 2: So we've talked about pauses and this idea of a
Speaker 2: temporary measure or break in conflict that gives civilians the
Speaker 2: chance to leave a conflict zone and maybe access aid,
Speaker 2: but there isn't really any guarantee that violence will stop
Speaker 2: in the long run when we're talking about pauses. On
Speaker 2: the other hand, though, a ceasefire is a longer term idea.
Speaker 2: So ceasefires mean all sides commit to not firing any
Speaker 2: weapons and it would see both sides entering talks, so
Speaker 2: negotiations sometimes hosted by a third party to come to
Speaker 2: an agreement to end the conflict. Israel and Hamas have
Speaker 2: come to many ceasefire agreements before. So two years ago
Speaker 2: fighting broke out between the two sides, and Egypt actually
Speaker 2: held talks that led to a ceasefire being declared after
Speaker 2: eleven days.
Speaker 3: Right, and focusing on the present day, who has been
Speaker 3: calling for a ceasefire?
Speaker 2: One of the loudest voices in the ceasefire conversation has
Speaker 2: been the UN Chief Antonio Guterres. So he has been
Speaker 2: pretty vocal, consistently telling the media about the horrors of
Speaker 2: the violence in Gaza. The UN adopted a resolution last
Speaker 2: month that called for a quote immediate, durable and humanitarian truce.
Speaker 2: Jordan's ambassador, that's the country that brought the resolution to
Speaker 2: the UN said and I quote an urgent need that
Speaker 2: an immediate ceasefire cannot be overstated. Israel and the US
Speaker 2: voted against the resolution, and Australia didn't vote on it
Speaker 2: at all. It said that the resolution didn't outwardly condemn
Speaker 2: the actions of Harmas on the seventh of October. More recently,
Speaker 2: the President of France, Emanuel Macron, also called for a ceasefire.
Speaker 2: He was interviewed by the BBC and said, there needs
Speaker 2: to be a way to stop the ever growing death
Speaker 2: toll from building and building.
Speaker 6: To the civilian submont. All people are bombed and killed,
Speaker 6: so there is no reason for that. Then I called
Speaker 6: for his fire, and I will urge them for his
Speaker 6: fire for and many turns his fire.
Speaker 2: Macron did clarify that Hamas committed terrorist acts on the
Speaker 2: seventh of October, he did outwardly condemn those, and he
Speaker 2: also said that Israel had a right to defend itself.
Speaker 3: And how did Israel react to that. In terms of
Speaker 3: Macron's comments.
Speaker 2: Over and over again, we've seen Israel reject calls for
Speaker 2: a ceasefire throughout this conflict. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has
Speaker 2: consistently said there won't be any ceasefire until all remaining
Speaker 2: hostages have been released from Gaza. Well, there will be
Speaker 2: no ceasefire, general cesfire and Gaza without the release of
Speaker 2: our hostages. And basically leaders in Israel have said there
Speaker 2: will be no cease fire until the hostages are freed.
Speaker 3: Okay, So we've focused a lot on what other countries
Speaker 3: have had to say about this conflict, but what has
Speaker 3: Australia had to say in all of this.
Speaker 2: Australia formally supported calls for a humanitarian pause, that it
Speaker 2: hasn't gone as far as France as we saw Macron
Speaker 2: doing in that interview with the BBC in calling for
Speaker 2: a ceasefire. However, Foreign Minister Pennywong deviated a little bit
Speaker 2: from the government's official wording during an interview over the
Speaker 2: weekend on the ABC's Insiders program.
Speaker 4: I've seen the comments of President Macron overnight. What I
Speaker 4: would say is we all want to take the next
Speaker 4: steps towards a ceasefire, but it cannot be one sided.
Speaker 4: How Mars still holds hostages, haw Mars is still attacking Israel.
Speaker 2: If we look around the world at the protests going
Speaker 2: on in support of and against all sides of this,
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like this conversation is going anywhere. So
Speaker 2: hopefully we've helped you understand a little bit more today
Speaker 2: about humanitarian pauses, and as we learn more about this
Speaker 2: unfolding situation, we will continue to bring it to you
Speaker 2: in this podcast.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us on the Daily OS.
Speaker 3: We will be back tomorrow