1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, show about the tactics used 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: by leading innovators to get so much out of their day. 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imbert. I'm an organizational psychologist, 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm obsessed with 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: finding ways to optimize my work date. This episode is 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: another my favorite Tip episode. The title's probably pretty self explanatory. 7 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: It's about my favorite tip from each of the interviews 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: I conduct. My guest today is Tim Herrera. Tim is 9 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: the founding editor of Smarter Living for the New York Times, 10 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: where he edits and reports stories about living a better, 11 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: more fulfilling life. Before coming to the Times, he was 12 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: a reporter and editor at The Washington Post, where he 13 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: wrote all about digital culture. Now I'm a regular subscriber 14 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: to Smarter Living. In fact, it's only one of the 15 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: only e newsletters that I read, and I thought that 16 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: surely the person editing this section of the Times must 17 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: have some awes and practices in their own life the 18 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: Smarter Living and Tim totally did so. In this extract, 19 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 1: Tim talks about how he reframed how he thinks about 20 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 1: procrastination and the role daily habits play in his life. 21 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 2: So we ran this beautiful, like twenty two hundred word 22 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 2: story about procrastination earlier this year, wonderful story by a 23 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 2: writer named Charlotte Lieberman, and it went really, really deep 24 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: into kind of the sources of procrastination, because you know, 25 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 2: I think, you know, it's easy to write off procrastination 26 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 2: as like, oh, like I just didn't feel like it, 27 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: or I was, you know, distracted, or you know, I 28 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 2: saw a tweet that sent me into a Wikipedia wormhole. 29 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 3: But and it's rot. 30 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 2: Procrastination really isn't about putting off a specific task. It's 31 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: associated a lot more with the emotions that we're having 32 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: regarding that task. And so if we're feeling anxiety about 33 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 2: a certain story, or you know, feel like it's just 34 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 2: too much, or it's too big for us, or it's 35 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 2: too difficult, a lot of those emotions are really kind 36 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 2: of the root of the procrastination rather than and you know, 37 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: I you know, watch TV for three hours. And so 38 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: I think just coming to terms with that idea that 39 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: procrastination isn't really about putting off the task, but it's 40 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: about wrestling with the emotions that you have associated with 41 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 2: that task. That's a really powerful realization and I, you know, 42 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: my entire life, I've been such an habitual procrastinator. You know, 43 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: I am notorious for it. But you know, I think 44 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: even just editing that story and working on that story 45 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 2: with Charlotte, you know, every line I read, I was like, 46 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 2: oh my god, this is totally me I had. This 47 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 2: is amazing. I had no idea, and so like it's funny, 48 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: like that story, you like, really did kind of help 49 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 2: me reframe the way that I view procrastination and the 50 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 2: way that I view what is preventing me from doing 51 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 2: certain things. You know, just being aware of that and 52 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: being cognizant of all the factors that go into why 53 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,679 Speaker 2: we're procrastinating, for me, it was really powerful. And then 54 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 2: on a more practical level, you know, I think there 55 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 2: are a lot of tactics that we. 56 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 3: Can use to stave off procrastination. 57 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 2: So for me, one of the things that I you know, 58 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,119 Speaker 2: when I know that I can't procrastinate something I really 59 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 2: need to get it done, I make myself accountable to 60 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 2: another person so that if I don't hit a certain deadline, 61 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,679 Speaker 2: it's going to make their life more complicated. 62 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 3: And you know, more than you know, finishing a story. 63 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 2: You know, making someone else unhappy is the thing that 64 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: gives me most anxiety. And so then it's a matter of, 65 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,679 Speaker 2: you know, instead of thinking I will do anything to 66 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 2: put off writing a story because I just don't want 67 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: to do it, it becomes a matter of, I will 68 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 2: do anything to make sure I don't mess up this 69 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: person's day, So I need to do this story. And 70 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: so just having kind of a system or a structure 71 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: in place where you know, I have others relying on 72 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 2: my getting things done in time for me has been 73 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: really helpful. And then, you know, the other thing is 74 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: trying to build out structures and habits into my general 75 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: day to day has been really helpful. Just having a 76 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: regular cadence of when I need to do a certain 77 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: thing or you know, whatever the task is. You know, 78 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 2: knowing that it's just part of my regular routine is helpful. 79 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 2: You know, trying to build habits around these things is 80 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 2: such a powerful tool because you know, it takes away 81 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 2: the idea of self control or willpower. 82 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 3: You know, it's not you know, once you are able 83 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 3: to successfully. 84 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: Build a habit and create a habit, willpower isn't even 85 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: a factor, you know, because you're just not thinking about it. 86 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 3: You're just doing it, and you. 87 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: Know that is it's it's such a powerful tool and 88 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 2: something that I you know, really have tried to do 89 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 2: a lot. 90 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: Of What are some of the most powerful habits that 91 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: you've created that go into a typical working day for you. 92 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 2: So Adam Grant is one of my favorite people in 93 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 2: the world. He's a professor Wharton, He's you know, writes books, 94 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 2: you know, writes for me. It's The New York Times, 95 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: rights for all kinds of outlets. On top of having 96 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 2: a family. You know, the dude that's insane how much 97 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 2: he actually gets done. And it's I've just always marveled 98 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 2: at him. He's a total genius. But we we got 99 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 2: lunch together like a year and a half ago, and 100 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: you know, we're just talking about process and creative output 101 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 2: and how everybody gets things done. And he said that 102 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: one of the things that he does when he is 103 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 2: writing a book is that he'll wake up every morning 104 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 2: and for half an hour every single morning, he just writes. 105 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 2: You know, he's not you know, sort of writing and 106 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 2: sort of has TV and on the background or sort 107 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 2: of looking at his phone. 108 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 3: He's just writing. And it's only half an hour. 109 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: It's not that much of a commitment, but he does 110 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 2: it every single day, and like, you know, that to 111 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: me felt like, you know, like Eve been saying like 112 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: one of these like duh sort of revelations. 113 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 3: But that was a system. 114 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 2: That allowed him to write multiple books and be a professor, 115 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: and have a family and write for news outlets, and 116 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 2: so that was something that I that I did actually 117 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 2: kind of try to steal a little bit. 118 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 3: And so I am sort of the opposite. 119 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: My most productive time and the times that I am 120 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 2: and I am able to really focus is usually later 121 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 2: in the day. So every afternoon, you know, I try to, 122 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 2: you know, unless I say something inflicting, you know, really 123 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 2: try to do writing and just try to make a 124 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: habit out of it. And you know, it's another thing 125 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: that I know, you know, when the time comes around, 126 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 2: it's not like I need to force myself to do it. 127 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 2: It's just like a habit that I know that I 128 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 2: have to do. And you know, it's not that much 129 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 2: of a commitment, but over time, you know, it just 130 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 2: becomes something that allows you to get so much done. 131 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 3: And I really so I just finished a book. 132 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: Proposal, and that was basically how I was able to finish, 133 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 2: like it had been sitting around kind of half done 134 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 2: for about a year, and then in the last few 135 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 2: weeks I actually started to think about like, okay, like 136 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 2: let's just get this done. 137 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 3: Get out that doesn't have to be perfect, it just 138 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 3: has to be done. 139 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 2: And so like I did like carve out in the evenings, 140 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 2: like specific time every day where I was just going 141 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 2: to work on the book. And at first it was like, 142 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 2: you know, kind of like felt like I was dragging 143 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 2: myself to it and I didn't really want to do 144 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: it and I was tired or grouchy or whatever. 145 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 3: But over time it just became a normal part of 146 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 3: my routine. 147 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 2: And you know, that is literally how I was able 148 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: to finally finish this proposal that's been sitting half done 149 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 2: for a year. You know, it just took the effort 150 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 2: to try to create a habit and then just follow 151 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 2: through with it. 152 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: Hello there me again. I just loved what Tim had 153 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: to say about daily habits. The thing that I like 154 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: most about daily habits is that it takes out the 155 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: ability to negotiate with yourself. If you do something every day, 156 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: then you don't have to make the decision should I 157 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: do this today. So for me, I feel this way 158 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: about my morning exercise routine. I wait five thirty am, 159 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: and even if I can't be bothered, I almost feel 160 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: like I'm just on autopilot getting into my gym gear 161 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: and driving to the gym. It's just what I do. 162 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: So that's it for today. If you liked this excerpt, 163 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: you might want to listen to my full chat with Tim, 164 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: which I link to in the show notes. And if 165 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: you know someone that you think would enjoy how I work, 166 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: why not share this podcast with them and thank you. 167 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: If you've already done that, it is super appreciated. So 168 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: that's it for today and I'll see you next time.