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Speaker 1: The country's largest environmental law charity, the Environmental Defender's Office.

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Speaker 1: As I'm sure you've maybe heard, they're under immense financial

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Speaker 1: pressure after paying nine million dollars in legal costs to

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Speaker 1: Santos and could potentially fall into insolvency. Now. The EDO

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Speaker 1: was ordered to pay this hefty legal bill last year

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Speaker 1: while representing Tee Island traditional owners who were trying to

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Speaker 1: put a stop well, some of those traditional owners who

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Speaker 1: were trying to put a stop to Santos's plans for

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Speaker 1: a new gas pipeline, but a federal court judge ruled

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Speaker 1: the EDO was coaching a witness. Now, the ABC reporting

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Speaker 1: that the EDO could be forced to shut down going

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Speaker 1: by its latest financial report, and that experts in the

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Speaker 1: field fear the situation will discourage lawyers from taking on

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Speaker 1: major companies and weaken the prospects of public interest litigation.

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Speaker 1: The federal Shadow Environment Minister John o'dunham joins me on

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Speaker 1: the line for his take on the situation.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, John O, Good morning Katie, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Good to have you on the show, so mate. The

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Speaker 1: ABC is reporting that despite the multimillion dollar legal bill

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Speaker 1: that well, the ED I reckon, they're confident that they

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Speaker 1: can survive. Do you reckon it's possible.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think it's very difficult for the EDO to survive.

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Speaker 2: And let's not forget that. The reason they're in this

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Speaker 2: situation is because, as if we're already outlined, they went

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Speaker 2: and did things that lawyers shouldn't. That is why the

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Speaker 2: Federal court did not mince their words, found them to

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Speaker 2: have breached most legal conventions and found against their clients,

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Speaker 2: and awarded the case of Santos to enable the project

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Speaker 2: to continue, but also awarded such a significant amount of

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Speaker 2: costs against the EDO. So I had a look at

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Speaker 2: the financial statement that the Environmental Defender's Office put out

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Speaker 2: last week, and in there it states that there is

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Speaker 2: material uncertainty regarding the end of his future financial performance

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Speaker 2: and its ability to refinance and or repay the six

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Speaker 2: and a half million dollar debt by the due date.

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Speaker 2: Even their own financial reports seem to dispute what the

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Speaker 2: ABC seem to think is going on. I don't think

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Speaker 2: they survived, and what's more, the Commonwealth government should not

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Speaker 2: be handing over two and a half million dollars of

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Speaker 2: taxpayers dollar every year to help them pay the step down.

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Speaker 2: So they did the wrong thing and they should shut

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Speaker 2: up shop.

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Speaker 1: That was going to be my next question. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the EDO is slated to receive fifteen million dollars from

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Speaker 1: the federal government by the end of the decade, has

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Speaker 1: already received as I understand, at eight million. Do you

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Speaker 1: think that that funding should cease immediately.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. We've said from day dot that this organization, which

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Speaker 2: goes around looking for claims and clients, coaches witnesses in

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Speaker 2: some cases, as we've found out based on the Federal

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Speaker 2: Courts findings of their activity in this particular case, goes

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Speaker 2: around preventing projects from going ahead or at the very

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Speaker 2: least delaying them, costing jobs and creating invest uncertainty, which

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Speaker 2: is bad for our country, particularly outside of downtown Sydney

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Speaker 2: and Melbourne, harder to get projects up and find a

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Speaker 2: job and make ends meet, as we know many Australians

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Speaker 2: are struggling with. So we've said from day dot the

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Speaker 2: funding should not go to this terrible organization. It should

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Speaker 2: cease flowing to them. We've committed that if we win

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Speaker 2: the next election that we will stop funding them immediately.

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Speaker 2: And interestingly, the amount of funding they receive every year

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Speaker 2: KD is just go I think it's around two point

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Speaker 2: three million dollars if you work out their repayment schedule,

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Speaker 2: because according to the EDO themselves, they've got to have

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Speaker 2: their debt paid off by August twenty twenty seven, it

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Speaker 2: works out to be just on two point three million

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Speaker 2: dollars every year that they have to repeat to whoever

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Speaker 2: this mysterious benefactor is in order to pay down this debt.

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Speaker 2: I wonder where they're getting this money from. It's from

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Speaker 2: your listeners, the tax payers of Australia.

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Speaker 1: Well, and look, I guess there is an argument as well,

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Speaker 1: John O, from some that you know, if the EDO

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Speaker 1: was no longer, could it potentially mean a loss when

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Speaker 1: it comes to accountability and legitimate environmental concerns. I mean,

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Speaker 1: to any listening this morning that might feel that way,

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Speaker 1: what would you say to them?

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Speaker 2: Well, I would say that the EDO operated fine in

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Speaker 2: the period of time they weren't getting Commonwealth government assistance.

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Speaker 2: So when we were in government, we stopped funding them

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Speaker 2: and they were able to help out individuals who genuinely

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Speaker 2: and legitimately needed help. There are a range of other

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Speaker 2: organizations out there. We have some in my home state

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Speaker 2: of Tasmania that assist with environmental law. A lot of

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Speaker 2: pro bono work gets undertaken by these groups to help farmers,

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Speaker 2: small town residents, people that are struggling with a major project,

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Speaker 2: for example, and would like to have matters taken to court.

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Speaker 2: And there are legitimate places for those organizations to exist.

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Speaker 2: Where it becomes illegitimate is what we've seen with the EDO,

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Speaker 2: what they've used taxpayers money for and what the federal

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Speaker 2: court themselves found is not appropriate. And I would say

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Speaker 2: it's in our democratic country everyone's right to take issue

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Speaker 2: with the project. But when you've got an organization life

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Speaker 2: using funds and in my view, creating unnecessary angst in

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Speaker 2: the community, they should not continue to do it and

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Speaker 2: we should not continue to fund them.

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Speaker 1: Look, if you have just joined us, we are joined

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Speaker 1: on the show right now by the federal Shadow Environment

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Speaker 1: Minister John o'dunheam, and John, I do want to ask.

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you've said that a coalition government, if elected,

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Speaker 1: you know when a federal election takes place, that you

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Speaker 1: would not continue to fund the Environmental Defender's Office. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what do you think that the federal labor government should

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Speaker 1: do right now?

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Speaker 2: Well, right now and in fact, wind the clock back

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Speaker 2: what four or five months when the Federal Court handed

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Speaker 2: down its decision about the ideo. It might have been

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Speaker 2: a bit longer than that, but wind the clock back

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Speaker 2: to then they should have stopped funding this organization. Then,

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Speaker 2: Federal Court judge is not someone who's likely to get political.

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Speaker 2: They're not someone who is likely to do things in

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Speaker 2: a nefarious way. They are applying the law based on

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Speaker 2: the fact available to them. And if the government is

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Speaker 2: serious about a future made in Australia as they say

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Speaker 2: they are, or being a friend of the worker and

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Speaker 2: creating jobs and lowering the cost of living, or they

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Speaker 2: get these green activist organizations out of the way and

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Speaker 2: enable good, sustainable, well regulated and science backed projects to

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Speaker 2: get up and running. So they should cease the funding immediately,

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Speaker 2: and off the back of this financial statement from the

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Speaker 2: Environmental Defender's Office which says basically, we are cactus without

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Speaker 2: the federal government funding. They should pull out now and

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Speaker 2: stop subjecting taxpayers to this misuse of resources.

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Speaker 1: Well, John O, I always appreciate your time. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's certainly an interesting, interesting situation. I think the Labor Party,

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Speaker 1: you know, federally, it's an interesting situation that they find

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Speaker 1: themselves in as well, because they want the support you know,

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Speaker 1: of environmentalists, they want the support of people that you

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Speaker 1: know that are maybe on that side of the fence.

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Speaker 1: But then they also want the support of the working class.

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Speaker 1: Like you've touched on, you know, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: need jobs, a lot of people want these projects to

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Speaker 1: forge your head, and there does need to be a balance.

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Speaker 1: We want to make sure that we're doing things correctly

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Speaker 1: and not ruining the environment, but we also want things

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Speaker 1: to get gone.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. Balance is key here and that's the thing. You

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Speaker 2: could move the goalposts forever in a day to try

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Speaker 2: and satisfy these crowds, but they will do anything if

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Speaker 2: they believe it is in their interests and that includes

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Speaker 2: stopping projects. So there will be no appeasing Greens. As

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Speaker 2: they say, you can't outgreen the Greens and the message

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Speaker 2: you to labor. Stop playing that game, get back on

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Speaker 2: the side of ordinary hard working men and women right

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Speaker 2: across this country and stop funding the EEDO and wrapping

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Speaker 2: this country up in greend Tape.

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Speaker 1: Well, Shadow Environment Minister John o'donnheam good to speak to

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Speaker 1: you this morning. Thanks so much for your time.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Katie, thank you you too