WEBVTT - 11: Fight for Justice 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:06.480 This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:11.840 urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline on 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:19.040 thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen or visit them at 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.239 lifeline dot org dot au. 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:27.320 We also warn listeners that this episode contains graphic content. 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:38.080 A twenty four year old devoted mother of two fleeing 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:47.640 a violent relationship as a mom bags packed car, running, 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:50.520 her daughters strapped into the backseat. 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:54.360 Mom told me that she needed to go back inside 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:55.160 to grab something. 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:56.000 Panic. 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:58.560 Amy is dead, Sir Amys dead? 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:00.760 Eight confusion out five minutes. 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:03.680 They said that it's a suicide. One hundred percent. This 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:06.360 is a murdercy. 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:10.759 What do you think is really the honest truth about Amy? 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:19.399 The Truth about Amy? 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:22.160 Episode eleven. 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:27.600 I'm Liam Bartlett. 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:32.400 And I'm Alison Sany. 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:35.280 It's not too late to soul, you know. I think 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.000 FAY should never be an option. So it's about getting 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:39.720 a new set of I was having a look at it, 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:42.880 making a list of avenues of inquirers, things that need 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:47.840 to be done. 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:51.400 This is Ron Dall's in an interview we did with 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:54.960 him in twenty nineteen when we were investigating the disappearance 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:58.080 of Marion Barter and chasing a copy of the brief 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:00.080 of evidence for her family. 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:04.240 Always in the file, and he was right. 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:07.760 We don't have the brief of Evidence on Amy Wensley, 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:10.320 but we have access to an awful lot of documents 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:12.680 that were in it, which we've shared with you throughout 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:17.040 this podcast. And as I'm sure you'll agree, the amount 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:22.200 of indisputable facts that were either ignored or overlooked is astonishing. 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:29.280 But wait, there's more. We've seen a copy of the 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:33.400 full report of Operation Mix, the cold case inquiry undertaken 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:40.320 in twenty eighteen. Ahead of the inquest, Here are some 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:43.680 excerpts from statements made by various witnesses at the time, 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:48.079 many of whom you haven't heard from yet. Starting with 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:51.120 Senior Constable Ian Roberts. 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.400 I'm a senior constable attached to Mondaydon Police Station in 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:58.320 the Peel District. On Thursday twenty sixth of June twenty fourteen, 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.600 I was on duty with Constable Larry Blandford and Constable 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:04.760 Pip Dixon that day. We were requested to attend a 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.320 two forty eight concerned for welfare at twenty seven eighty 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:12.480 three Southwestern Highways Serpentine. We took a Priority two and 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:15.280 headed out to this location at the front gate at 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.840 about seventeen forty hours. At the front gate was the 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:23.320 father of the complainant, Robert Simmons and Gareth Price. Blandford 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.840 had had previous dealings with Gareth and knew him. Mister 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.560 Simmons told us that the deceased was within the house 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.440 just up the drive. The drive to the lower property 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:35.760 was about one kilometer long, going uphill, the last few 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:40.080 hundred meters being gravel. Two vehicles were situated outside the property. 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.000 In the white ute, there lay a twenty two rifle 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.520 across the front passenger seat. I entered the property, had 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:48.640 a quick look. I saw what looked to be a 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:52.000 female in a black top, black jeans and black boots 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:54.600 slumped behind the door. It was a bit tight to 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:57.520 enter as her foot was against the door. The body 0:03:57.520 --> 0:03:59.880 had a blue towel over the head covering the wounds. 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.040 At this time, the tower was left in place and untouched. 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:05.680 I could see that her right hand was under her 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:09.560 bottom and her left resting in her lap. On the bedside. 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:13.040 To the left were two fourteen gaged shotgun cartridges. One 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:16.120 was live and the other spent. I also saw that 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:19.599 there was a side by side double barrel shotgun lying 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:21.719 by the side of the bed and it was pointing 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.560 barrel toward the deceased. It was about two meters away 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.120 from the deceased. I could see that it had blood 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.520 spatterings around the front of both barrels. Next to the 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.440 bedside cabinet, there was a pink rifle leaning up against 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:37.200 the wall in the corner. In the far corner of 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.799 the room, next to the other bedside cabinet was another 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.560 shotgun leaning up against the wall. In the wardrobe, another 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.560 rifle was leaning against the inner wall, and several boxes 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.560 of ammunition, both shotgun and twenty two could be seen 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:53.279 on the upper shelf. Sergeant Kirkman explained that he and 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:55.760 his partner had come to the conclusion that it was 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:59.400 a non suspicious suicide, stating that they thought the deceased 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:02.200 had pulled the tree trigger using her left hand by 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:04.279 pressing the butt of the gun against the bed and 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.560 leaning over her left arm. I then tried to tell 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.479 Sergeant Kirkman that I did not agree with him, and 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.599 stated that it would be almost if not impossible, for 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:15.560 a slight girl of her size to be able to 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:18.080 reach over her body and pull the trigger with her 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.200 left hand, and demonstrated that even my arm was not 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:24.400 long enough to reach the trigger. I also mentioned that 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:26.880 her natural trigger finger would have been her right hand, 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.719 which was situated under her bottom, so could not have 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:34.280 been used. Sergeant Kirkman dismissed these facts, and his partner 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:38.200 agreed with him. First Constable Blandford again tried to explain 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:40.960 that for a person to shoot themselves, they would have 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.000 had to be seated with the butt of the weapon 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.560 against the ground and the barrel in their face. Sergeant 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:48.919 Kirkman replied that she was shot from the side of 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.400 the head. First Constable Blandford stated that there is no 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.080 female capable of holding the shotgun to the side of 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:57.960 their own head and pulling the trigger, certainly not with 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:01.960 their right hand trapped under the bottom. Sergeant Kirkman answered 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:05.000 by saying she must have leant sidewards into the barrel. 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:13.599 Constable Pip Dixon, now Senior Constable More, gives her account 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:15.760 of what happened on the night Amy died in a 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.960 statement dated tenth of January twenty eighteen. 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.159 I could see that Constable Blandford was trying to access 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:24.279 the bedroom on the right, but he couldn't open the 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.040 door properly. The door was only able to be opened 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.279 maybe forty centimeters. We had to push the door fairly 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.800 hard to allow entry, and we still had to squeeze 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:35.200 through the door space. I don't know if this caused 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.599 the decease to move. The decease was located behind the 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.440 door space in a seated position on the floor. She 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:44.279 was seated in the corner against the wardrobe and the 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.159 wall in the small space behind the door. She was 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:49.960 facing the door and her left foot was pressed against 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.000 the door. There was blood and brain matter on the 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.440 wall behind and to the side of her. There was 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:58.520 a blue towel covering her upper body. Her right hand 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.720 appeared wedged under her run upper thigh, and her left 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.800 hand was visible resting across her lap. There were two 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.400 firearms near the deceased. One was pointed facing her about 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.800 a meter away, lying on the ground. The firearm lying 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:13.920 on the ground was brown and silver, and I could 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:16.800 see a couple of blood drops on the barrel. There 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:19.720 was another pink and black rifle leaning between the bedside 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:21.640 table and the wall near the bed. 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:24.320 Pitt Dixon remembers seeing Nancy arrive. 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.680 Nancy was getting hysterical. From where we were positioned, I 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.040 could see the ambulance parked near the house. Nancy asked 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:33.800 if the ambulance was tending to Amy. Then she asked 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.400 if Amy was dead. I just nodded my head and 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:37.880 said I'm so sorry. 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:40.560 Then David Simmons arrives. 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:44.040 Nancy started yelling at Simmons. Nancy said, this is all 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.280 your fault. You're drinking. You've caused this. We were standing 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.800 in the driveway on the right hand side of the vehicles. 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.760 I held onto Nancy's elbow, but I let her yell. 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.400 Simmons was being held by Price. Simmons was yelling back 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:58.760 at Nancy, but I couldn't make out exactly what he 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.080 was saying until he got a bit angry and yelled. 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:02.560 I didn't shoot myself in the fucking head. 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.320 I took Nancy back to her car and asked Constable 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:09.080 Blandford to stay with her. I approached Price and David Simmons. 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:13.120 David Simmons smelled heavily of alcohol. He was emotional, crying 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:15.680 and yelling, and kept walking back and forth close to 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:18.520 the road. When he walked near the road price would 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.480 grab him. At six ten PM, I asked David Simmons 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:24.680 for his full details and his children's details. At six 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.280 sixteen PM, I cautioned David Simmons and said, before I 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.400 speak to you, I'm going to caution you. You're not 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.320 obliged to say anything unless you wish to do so. 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.360 But anything you do say or do may be taken 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.080 down in writing and may later be given in evidence. 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:40.520 Do you understand this? 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.440 Simmons said, just lock me up. I prefer to be 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:48.800 in jail. Now we have Detective Kirkman in twenty eighteen 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:54.400 who now acknowledges she couldn't have possibly used her left 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.560 hand to shoot herself, and is now trying to explain 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:00.840 how it must have been done with her her right hand. 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.280 The fingers of her right hand was under her right 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.600 buttock and her left hand was in her lap. The 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.000 deceased appeared to have died where she was. There was 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.640 no indication that she'd been moved there from another place. 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:16.640 There were no drag marks of blood trails leading to 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:20.839 where she was seated. The blood appeared reasonably fresh, and 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.840 while there was some congealing, it wasn't dry. So based 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:28.040 on my observations. It is my opinion that she pulled 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.760 the trigger with her right hand. I believe her hand 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.760 could have ended up under the buttock as a result 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.120 of the force of the impact of the shot from 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.040 the shotgun, pushing her body into the wall, and then 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:44.840 her body settling back down onto her right hand. Other 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:49.079 possibilities I considered included that the opening of the bedroom door, 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:52.440 twitching after death, or persons that had tended to the 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:57.040 deceased inadvertently pushed her hand under her buttock. In the 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.800 left back corner was a twenty two caliber rifle. In 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:03.439 the right back corner was a double barrel twelve gage shotgun, 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.000 and in the far corner of the wardrobe was a 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:10.600 high powered rifle. On the left bedside table was one 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.559 spent one live four to ten shotgun round. 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:22.679 In all, five guns were seized. They include Amy's Pink 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:27.800 Savage twenty two, the Boito four to ten used to 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:31.640 kill her, and the three to eight Ruger twelve game, 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.120 all of which belonged to Simmons and were found in 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:40.280 the bedroom where Amy's body was while Simmons Browning twenty 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:44.320 two was found by police in the back of his ute. 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:48.920 They also seized a large crossbow in the shed. Now, 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.400 the location of these guns is important, and in one 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.480 of the documents that we have they described each of 0:10:55.520 --> 0:11:00.760 them in detail, but only one is described as being 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.680 fitted with a telescopic sight, and that's the three to 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:08.480 eight Ruger twelve gage. You may already recognize the significance 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:13.760 of this, Asnya described it as being the one that 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:17.960 she saw Simmons return to the mirror cupboard in the 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:21.280 bedroom Amy was in while waiting in the backseat of 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.800 the car with Tay. Initially, Simmons denied going to the 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:29.800 bedroom where Amy was in the moments leading up to 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:34.079 her death, but when directly asked about this at the inquest, 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:39.880 he said he couldn't remember. Kirkman goes on to list 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:46.200 inconsistencies between statements made on the night by David Simmons 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:47.480 and Gareth Price. 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.080 Simmons not mentioning the demanding of the phone, Simmons doesn't 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.880 mention being called a liar by the deceased. Simmons put 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.960 the physical altercation with the deceased and the mirror in 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:03.960 the bedroom. Price's statement identifies the hallway. Simmons doesn't mention 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:08.560 hearing the tyranium smashing, but Price does. Price mentioned Simmons 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.200 starting and switching off the engine to the motor vehicle, 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.800 Simmons does not. Simmons states he went out and told 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.960 Price what he saw in the bedroom. However, Price states 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:22.000 he followed Simmons into the room. Simmons states the shotgun 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.280 was about one meter away from the deceased, However, Price 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:28.760 says it was resting on her leg. The scene diagrammed 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:34.720 by Simmons has the deceased position reversed. These inconsistencies don't 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.679 show a pattern of untruths, but two different perceptions and 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:43.520 recollections of the same traumatic event. It was also ascertained 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.160 from police startup the deceased was the holder of a 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:50.679 valid firearms license. Simmons had no history of violent offenses, 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:54.760 and there were no domestic violence incidences between Simmons and 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:56.120 the deceased, but. 0:12:56.280 --> 0:13:00.160 By the time Cold Case was compiling its report in 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:09.080 twenty eighteen, Simmons did have a history of violent offenses. 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:14.400 Next is police sergeant at Munda. John Police Station, Bron 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:19.000 Joseph Umbrius, who spoke about arresting Simmons on the thirtieth 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:20.840 of June twenty fourteen. 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.480 We arrived just before nine point thirty and walked to 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.319 the back of the house where a group of persons 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.320 were sitting and standing around a fire. I observed a 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.199 mail person standing near a tree away from the group, 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.360 with his back turned to me. I approached this male person, 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:37.480 who I believe to be David Robert Simmons, and spoke 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:41.640 with him briefly before Detective Sergeant Evans joined us. Detective 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:45.680 Sergeant Evans confirmed this person's name was David Simmons and 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:49.600 advised him he was under arrest for murder. Detective Sergeant 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.080 Evans requested that he place his hands out in front 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.400 of him and that he was going to be handcuffed, 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.920 and Simmons complied. I placed a set of handcuffs onto 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:00.840 both wrists of Simmons, ensuring that I were suitably loose 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.560 enough and locked into position properly. Detective Sergeant Evans and 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:06.920 I walked Simmons from the backyard to the front of 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:10.120 the property and near the back corner of the police vehicle. 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.600 During this time, Simmons appeared to be affected by alcohol. 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:18.360 He was questioning and at times argumentative and disrespectful. Detective 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:22.160 Sergeant Evans commenced, providing Simmons with his rights. He managed 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.480 to advise Simmons that he had the right to contact 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.160 a lawyer. However, by that point Simmons continued to interrupt 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:31.280 and be argumentative, and we placed him into the back 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.520 of a security pod of my police vehicle. I told 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.200 Simmons that we would give him two minutes and would 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.480 speak with him again. After two minutes lapsed, I opened 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.479 the door and he continued to interrupt and be argumentative. 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.240 I introduced myself advised that I was sergeant at Mundijong 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:51.320 Police Station. However, he became verbally abusive, saying I don't 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:54.760 give a fuck fuck you. With his presenting demeanor, it 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:57.480 was not practical to continue to try and explain the 0:14:57.520 --> 0:14:59.960 remainder of his rights. As I started to close the 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.520 the door, he deliberately placed one of his boots in 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.720 the gap between the door and the frame of the 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.120 security pod, resisting the door closure. With the assistance of 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:12.240 Constable Aaron Reichstein, we overcame his resistance, closed the door 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.800 to the security pod, and he kicked the inside the 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:16.000 door several times. 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:21.480 At the inquest, Sergeant brad Nyand acknowledges the fact that 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.520 there was no blood staining on the clothing of Gareth 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:26.680 Price or David Simmons. 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.960 I assume it's obvious that it's problematic that there had 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.440 been some time before the clothes were seized and tested. 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:40.440 Yes, and get this, No fingerprints, partial or otherwise were 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:44.320 found on the rifle which killed Amy, even though we know, 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:49.080 of course that at least three people touched it, including Amy, 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:54.720 Gareth Price and Robert Simmons. Here he's questioned by counsel 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.080 assisting the family, Peter Ward. 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.960 Would it surprise you that from all those three interactions, 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.720 plus whatever interaction there was when Miss Wensley was killed, 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:07.440 there's not a single ridge detail able to be detected 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.360 in the laser examination. 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:11.200 Not really because of the amount of disturbance to the 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.800 surface from the time as I understand it, to being 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.680 placed in the armory at Munda John Police station. But 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:19.360 it stands to reason if you've got physical evidence, that 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:22.160 physical evidence can be removed if there is additional contact. 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:24.880 Might it be the case that any prince that were 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:27.360 on there could have been removed by the weapon having 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:29.360 been wiped possibly quite possibly? 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.840 The coroner dismissed this in her findings. 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:36.360 Sergeant Nind gave evidence that Sometimes it is known that 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.480 people have touched an object, but no fingerprints will be 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:43.720 found on examination. Therefore, the absence of evidence of fingerprints, 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.520 despite that a number of people had touched the shotgun, 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.920 did not necessarily suggest the shotgun had been wiped clean 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:53.240 before being seized by the police. So an absence of 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.080 fingerprints is not conclusive in any way. 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:04.840 Not conclusive in any way. The owner of the Serpentine 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:10.560 Falls roadhouse, Robert Ibbotson, also provided evidence. His statement is 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:15.560 dated Friday twenty seven of June twenty seventeen. He was 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:19.000 standing near Simmons when he made the triple zero call, 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.480 and in a statement he described him as calm, just 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.320 a little bit edgy and nervous, but not crying. At 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:29.960 the inquest, he elaborated on this, confirming neither Simmons nor 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:31.240 Gareth Price. 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.800 Were crying visibly, really upset or a blubbering mess by 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:39.040 any means, but they were nervous and apprehensive now. 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:43.479 Rick Kirk, Nancy's husband, also made a statement saying he 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:49.479 believed Simmons was very jealous and short tempered and could 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:53.520 not handle his alcohol. Rick also told them about the 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:57.359 conversation he had with Amy a week before she died, 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:02.520 where she said Simmons had held a knife to her throat. 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.160 When he was drunk around me and my family, he'd 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:08.040 be very civil, but he was drinking with his mates, 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:13.920 it'd become quite nasty and out of control. Example David's jealousy. 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:18.560 He was accusing Amy for cracking onto his dad, Robert Simmons. 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.440 I mean David to get very jealous of people looking 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.280 at Amy when they're at the pups. It s nap 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.600 and it'd take him a long time to calm him down. 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:31.000 Here, Rick Kirk is referring to an incident he witnessed 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:36.040 where Simmons verbally attacked Amy after she made a throwaway 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.800 comment that his father, Robert was a good looking older man. 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:44.719 Upon hearing this, Simmons accused Amy of wanting to, in 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:50.440 his words, root him. Sound familiar. It's similar to what 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:55.480 Amy's friend Shelley Stanley recalls Simmons saying to her when 0:18:55.520 --> 0:19:00.520 she told him to be nicer to Amy. There's a 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:08.400 list of the uncooperative witnesses Caide Sonice, Matthew Donovan, Alison Merrema, 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:15.080 and Raymond Ernest mcirree. They also tracked down Gavin Totten, 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:20.720 who is Shelley Stanley's former partner. In a statement, Totten 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.280 said he knew Amy and Simmons for five or six years, 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:29.320 and they would camp together regularly with their children. He 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:35.399 admits initially thinking Amy's death was a suspicious suicide, but 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:39.560 changed his mind after speaking to Simmons and Price. This 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:41.280 is what he told investigators. 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:46.200 Simmo was a huge drinker. He would drink every day, 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:50.960 copious amounts of alcohol. He would easily put away a carton. 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:56.200 Never saw Simma using drugs. But I wasn't born yesterday either, 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.399 so I could tell when there was a change in 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:03.200 his behavior. He went a bit funny. After what happened, 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:07.000 he came across like he may have been on the 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:11.920 gear or something like that. Probably on meth, I would say, 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.800 But I never saw him using drugs of any kind. 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:20.840 It was probably going on for about six months before 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.600 Amy died that I thought he must have started using 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:28.920 drugs or something. Simo went off the radar for a bit, 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:32.800 so I started hanging out with Gareth a bit more, 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:37.200 going hunting and stuff with him. That's when he told 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:39.080 me what had happened on that day. 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:43.760 When asked about Amy and simmons relationship, he said this. 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:47.720 There was never anything that made me think they were 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:52.320 having any issues at all. Simo never ever mentioned anything 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:56.199 that made me think there were issues between them. Sima 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:59.240 was pretty wiry, I mean, like in the head. He 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:02.000 was a bit all over the place. But I never 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:06.560 saw him hitter or anything like that. When he was working, 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.679 he was good and off the gear, but he was 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:11.360 in and out of work a fair bit. 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.800 At the end of the interview, Totten was asked to 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:18.520 review the statement and if he agreed with it. He 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:27.360 said he did, but he wouldn't sign it. Ray McCary, 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:31.240 according to Joshua Brdon, is the one who eventually told 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:36.520 him about Amy's death. Initially, he said mckeary told him 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:40.720 in person, then he changed that to being via text. 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:46.480 If the name McCary rings a bell, that's because he's 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:51.600 the brother of Gareth Price's ex wife, Rachel and Renee, 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:56.359 who you'll recall sent Rachel this message on Facebook. 0:21:57.000 --> 0:21:58.399 Rachel, you're a give up dogs. 0:21:58.440 --> 0:21:59.679 I no longer have a sister. 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:00.840 It's gloves off. 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:02.960 When I see you next, maggot, I'll be coming for you, 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:05.600 So take your big hole and fuck off somewhere for good. 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:12.680 You cold case detectives managed to draft a statement according 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:16.600 to what McKee told them, but despite several attempts, they 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:20.000 were unable to find him again to sign it. He 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:24.240 claimed he couldn't recall meeting Simmons or Price in the 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:27.679 days following the shooting, and never asked them about it 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:32.679 out of respect. He said he associated with Price about 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:37.440 once a fortnight and Simmons once a month. In the end, 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:42.000 Cold Case concluded the information he provided them wasn't that 0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:48.360 significant anyway. Then there's Cad Snise, the one who went 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:53.359 pig shooting with Brydon around midnight the night Amy was killed. 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:56.520 He at the very least would be able to account 0:22:56.520 --> 0:23:02.000 for Bridon's movements, but advised Cold Case investigators he did 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:06.840 not wish to get involved. So that was that. But 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:10.359 a few things that they didn't reference or seemed to 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:13.880 see as relevant is the fact that the clothes they 0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:17.080 provided to police they were supposedly wearing at the time 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:22.440 Amy died, didn't have any gun residue on them, despite 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:29.680 having been shooting that afternoon. Whenever Operation Mix had problems 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:35.360 understanding discrepancies or anomalies, they continued with the same explanation 0:23:36.040 --> 0:23:39.680 provided by detectives on that night that it was all 0:23:40.240 --> 0:23:47.960 subjective to individuals, and they found nothing suspicious about the 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:53.880 varying descriptions provided by Simmons and Price of what happened 0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:58.080 when Amy was shot, such as them driving to the 0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:03.639 roadhouse to call Triples zero, even though Simmons' father says 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:08.439 he almost always worked from home and there was a 0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:14.520 landline at the main house. Subsequently, on the twenty sixth 0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:19.840 of August twenty nineteen, the Cold Case Homicide Squad determined 0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:24.920 that Amy died either of a self inflicted gunshot, deliberate 0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:30.400 gunshot by another person, or the gun was accidentally discharged 0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:36.560 by Amy or another person. That was signed by Detective 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:42.440 Sergeant AA Giles, and it was the same finding as 0:24:42.480 --> 0:24:58.320 Deputy State Coroner Sarah Linton made two years later. 0:25:00.880 --> 0:25:04.080 This home video shows David and Amy at a pool party. 0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:07.879