Speaker 1: This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We
Speaker 1: urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline on
Speaker 1: thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen or visit them at
Speaker 1: lifeline dot org dot au.
Speaker 2: We also warn listeners that this episode contains graphic content.
Speaker 1: A twenty four year old devoted mother of two fleeing
Speaker 1: a violent relationship as a mom bags packed car, running,
Speaker 1: her daughters strapped into the backseat.
Speaker 3: Mom told me that she needed to go back inside
Speaker 3: to grab something.
Speaker 1: Panic.
Speaker 4: Amy is dead, Sir Amys dead?
Speaker 1: Eight confusion out five minutes.
Speaker 5: They said that it's a suicide. One hundred percent. This
Speaker 5: is a murdercy.
Speaker 1: What do you think is really the honest truth about Amy?
Speaker 6: The Truth about Amy?
Speaker 2: Episode eleven.
Speaker 1: I'm Liam Bartlett.
Speaker 2: And I'm Alison Sany.
Speaker 7: It's not too late to soul, you know. I think
Speaker 7: FAY should never be an option. So it's about getting
Speaker 7: a new set of I was having a look at it,
Speaker 7: making a list of avenues of inquirers, things that need
Speaker 7: to be done.
Speaker 2: This is Ron Dall's in an interview we did with
Speaker 2: him in twenty nineteen when we were investigating the disappearance
Speaker 2: of Marion Barter and chasing a copy of the brief
Speaker 2: of evidence for her family.
Speaker 8: Always in the file, and he was right.
Speaker 2: We don't have the brief of Evidence on Amy Wensley,
Speaker 2: but we have access to an awful lot of documents
Speaker 2: that were in it, which we've shared with you throughout
Speaker 2: this podcast. And as I'm sure you'll agree, the amount
Speaker 2: of indisputable facts that were either ignored or overlooked is astonishing.
Speaker 2: But wait, there's more. We've seen a copy of the
Speaker 2: full report of Operation Mix, the cold case inquiry undertaken
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen. Ahead of the inquest, Here are some
Speaker 2: excerpts from statements made by various witnesses at the time,
Speaker 2: many of whom you haven't heard from yet. Starting with
Speaker 2: Senior Constable Ian Roberts.
Speaker 9: I'm a senior constable attached to Mondaydon Police Station in
Speaker 9: the Peel District. On Thursday twenty sixth of June twenty fourteen,
Speaker 9: I was on duty with Constable Larry Blandford and Constable
Speaker 9: Pip Dixon that day. We were requested to attend a
Speaker 9: two forty eight concerned for welfare at twenty seven eighty
Speaker 9: three Southwestern Highways Serpentine. We took a Priority two and
Speaker 9: headed out to this location at the front gate at
Speaker 9: about seventeen forty hours. At the front gate was the
Speaker 9: father of the complainant, Robert Simmons and Gareth Price. Blandford
Speaker 9: had had previous dealings with Gareth and knew him. Mister
Speaker 9: Simmons told us that the deceased was within the house
Speaker 9: just up the drive. The drive to the lower property
Speaker 9: was about one kilometer long, going uphill, the last few
Speaker 9: hundred meters being gravel. Two vehicles were situated outside the property.
Speaker 9: In the white ute, there lay a twenty two rifle
Speaker 9: across the front passenger seat. I entered the property, had
Speaker 9: a quick look. I saw what looked to be a
Speaker 9: female in a black top, black jeans and black boots
Speaker 9: slumped behind the door. It was a bit tight to
Speaker 9: enter as her foot was against the door. The body
Speaker 9: had a blue towel over the head covering the wounds.
Speaker 9: At this time, the tower was left in place and untouched.
Speaker 9: I could see that her right hand was under her
Speaker 9: bottom and her left resting in her lap. On the bedside.
Speaker 9: To the left were two fourteen gaged shotgun cartridges. One
Speaker 9: was live and the other spent. I also saw that
Speaker 9: there was a side by side double barrel shotgun lying
Speaker 9: by the side of the bed and it was pointing
Speaker 9: barrel toward the deceased. It was about two meters away
Speaker 9: from the deceased. I could see that it had blood
Speaker 9: spatterings around the front of both barrels. Next to the
Speaker 9: bedside cabinet, there was a pink rifle leaning up against
Speaker 9: the wall in the corner. In the far corner of
Speaker 9: the room, next to the other bedside cabinet was another
Speaker 9: shotgun leaning up against the wall. In the wardrobe, another
Speaker 9: rifle was leaning against the inner wall, and several boxes
Speaker 9: of ammunition, both shotgun and twenty two could be seen
Speaker 9: on the upper shelf. Sergeant Kirkman explained that he and
Speaker 9: his partner had come to the conclusion that it was
Speaker 9: a non suspicious suicide, stating that they thought the deceased
Speaker 9: had pulled the tree trigger using her left hand by
Speaker 9: pressing the butt of the gun against the bed and
Speaker 9: leaning over her left arm. I then tried to tell
Speaker 9: Sergeant Kirkman that I did not agree with him, and
Speaker 9: stated that it would be almost if not impossible, for
Speaker 9: a slight girl of her size to be able to
Speaker 9: reach over her body and pull the trigger with her
Speaker 9: left hand, and demonstrated that even my arm was not
Speaker 9: long enough to reach the trigger. I also mentioned that
Speaker 9: her natural trigger finger would have been her right hand,
Speaker 9: which was situated under her bottom, so could not have
Speaker 9: been used. Sergeant Kirkman dismissed these facts, and his partner
Speaker 9: agreed with him. First Constable Blandford again tried to explain
Speaker 9: that for a person to shoot themselves, they would have
Speaker 9: had to be seated with the butt of the weapon
Speaker 9: against the ground and the barrel in their face. Sergeant
Speaker 9: Kirkman replied that she was shot from the side of
Speaker 9: the head. First Constable Blandford stated that there is no
Speaker 9: female capable of holding the shotgun to the side of
Speaker 9: their own head and pulling the trigger, certainly not with
Speaker 9: their right hand trapped under the bottom. Sergeant Kirkman answered
Speaker 9: by saying she must have leant sidewards into the barrel.
Speaker 2: Constable Pip Dixon, now Senior Constable More, gives her account
Speaker 2: of what happened on the night Amy died in a
Speaker 2: statement dated tenth of January twenty eighteen.
Speaker 10: I could see that Constable Blandford was trying to access
Speaker 10: the bedroom on the right, but he couldn't open the
Speaker 10: door properly. The door was only able to be opened
Speaker 10: maybe forty centimeters. We had to push the door fairly
Speaker 10: hard to allow entry, and we still had to squeeze
Speaker 10: through the door space. I don't know if this caused
Speaker 10: the decease to move. The decease was located behind the
Speaker 10: door space in a seated position on the floor. She
Speaker 10: was seated in the corner against the wardrobe and the
Speaker 10: wall in the small space behind the door. She was
Speaker 10: facing the door and her left foot was pressed against
Speaker 10: the door. There was blood and brain matter on the
Speaker 10: wall behind and to the side of her. There was
Speaker 10: a blue towel covering her upper body. Her right hand
Speaker 10: appeared wedged under her run upper thigh, and her left
Speaker 10: hand was visible resting across her lap. There were two
Speaker 10: firearms near the deceased. One was pointed facing her about
Speaker 10: a meter away, lying on the ground. The firearm lying
Speaker 10: on the ground was brown and silver, and I could
Speaker 10: see a couple of blood drops on the barrel. There
Speaker 10: was another pink and black rifle leaning between the bedside
Speaker 10: table and the wall near the bed.
Speaker 2: Pitt Dixon remembers seeing Nancy arrive.
Speaker 10: Nancy was getting hysterical. From where we were positioned, I
Speaker 10: could see the ambulance parked near the house. Nancy asked
Speaker 10: if the ambulance was tending to Amy. Then she asked
Speaker 10: if Amy was dead. I just nodded my head and
Speaker 10: said I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: Then David Simmons arrives.
Speaker 10: Nancy started yelling at Simmons. Nancy said, this is all
Speaker 10: your fault. You're drinking. You've caused this. We were standing
Speaker 10: in the driveway on the right hand side of the vehicles.
Speaker 10: I held onto Nancy's elbow, but I let her yell.
Speaker 10: Simmons was being held by Price. Simmons was yelling back
Speaker 10: at Nancy, but I couldn't make out exactly what he
Speaker 10: was saying until he got a bit angry and yelled.
Speaker 1: I didn't shoot myself in the fucking head.
Speaker 10: I took Nancy back to her car and asked Constable
Speaker 10: Blandford to stay with her. I approached Price and David Simmons.
Speaker 10: David Simmons smelled heavily of alcohol. He was emotional, crying
Speaker 10: and yelling, and kept walking back and forth close to
Speaker 10: the road. When he walked near the road price would
Speaker 10: grab him. At six ten PM, I asked David Simmons
Speaker 10: for his full details and his children's details. At six
Speaker 10: sixteen PM, I cautioned David Simmons and said, before I
Speaker 10: speak to you, I'm going to caution you. You're not
Speaker 10: obliged to say anything unless you wish to do so.
Speaker 10: But anything you do say or do may be taken
Speaker 10: down in writing and may later be given in evidence.
Speaker 10: Do you understand this?
Speaker 1: Simmons said, just lock me up. I prefer to be
Speaker 1: in jail. Now we have Detective Kirkman in twenty eighteen
Speaker 1: who now acknowledges she couldn't have possibly used her left
Speaker 1: hand to shoot herself, and is now trying to explain
Speaker 1: how it must have been done with her her right hand.
Speaker 8: The fingers of her right hand was under her right
Speaker 8: buttock and her left hand was in her lap. The
Speaker 8: deceased appeared to have died where she was. There was
Speaker 8: no indication that she'd been moved there from another place.
Speaker 8: There were no drag marks of blood trails leading to
Speaker 8: where she was seated. The blood appeared reasonably fresh, and
Speaker 8: while there was some congealing, it wasn't dry. So based
Speaker 8: on my observations. It is my opinion that she pulled
Speaker 8: the trigger with her right hand. I believe her hand
Speaker 8: could have ended up under the buttock as a result
Speaker 8: of the force of the impact of the shot from
Speaker 8: the shotgun, pushing her body into the wall, and then
Speaker 8: her body settling back down onto her right hand. Other
Speaker 8: possibilities I considered included that the opening of the bedroom door,
Speaker 8: twitching after death, or persons that had tended to the
Speaker 8: deceased inadvertently pushed her hand under her buttock. In the
Speaker 8: left back corner was a twenty two caliber rifle. In
Speaker 8: the right back corner was a double barrel twelve gage shotgun,
Speaker 8: and in the far corner of the wardrobe was a
Speaker 8: high powered rifle. On the left bedside table was one
Speaker 8: spent one live four to ten shotgun round.
Speaker 1: In all, five guns were seized. They include Amy's Pink
Speaker 1: Savage twenty two, the Boito four to ten used to
Speaker 1: kill her, and the three to eight Ruger twelve game,
Speaker 1: all of which belonged to Simmons and were found in
Speaker 1: the bedroom where Amy's body was while Simmons Browning twenty
Speaker 1: two was found by police in the back of his ute.
Speaker 1: They also seized a large crossbow in the shed. Now,
Speaker 1: the location of these guns is important, and in one
Speaker 1: of the documents that we have they described each of
Speaker 1: them in detail, but only one is described as being
Speaker 1: fitted with a telescopic sight, and that's the three to
Speaker 1: eight Ruger twelve gage. You may already recognize the significance
Speaker 1: of this, Asnya described it as being the one that
Speaker 1: she saw Simmons return to the mirror cupboard in the
Speaker 1: bedroom Amy was in while waiting in the backseat of
Speaker 1: the car with Tay. Initially, Simmons denied going to the
Speaker 1: bedroom where Amy was in the moments leading up to
Speaker 1: her death, but when directly asked about this at the inquest,
Speaker 1: he said he couldn't remember. Kirkman goes on to list
Speaker 1: inconsistencies between statements made on the night by David Simmons
Speaker 1: and Gareth Price.
Speaker 8: Simmons not mentioning the demanding of the phone, Simmons doesn't
Speaker 8: mention being called a liar by the deceased. Simmons put
Speaker 8: the physical altercation with the deceased and the mirror in
Speaker 8: the bedroom. Price's statement identifies the hallway. Simmons doesn't mention
Speaker 8: hearing the tyranium smashing, but Price does. Price mentioned Simmons
Speaker 8: starting and switching off the engine to the motor vehicle,
Speaker 8: Simmons does not. Simmons states he went out and told
Speaker 8: Price what he saw in the bedroom. However, Price states
Speaker 8: he followed Simmons into the room. Simmons states the shotgun
Speaker 8: was about one meter away from the deceased, However, Price
Speaker 8: says it was resting on her leg. The scene diagrammed
Speaker 8: by Simmons has the deceased position reversed. These inconsistencies don't
Speaker 8: show a pattern of untruths, but two different perceptions and
Speaker 8: recollections of the same traumatic event. It was also ascertained
Speaker 8: from police startup the deceased was the holder of a
Speaker 8: valid firearms license. Simmons had no history of violent offenses,
Speaker 8: and there were no domestic violence incidences between Simmons and
Speaker 8: the deceased, but.
Speaker 1: By the time Cold Case was compiling its report in
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, Simmons did have a history of violent offenses.
Speaker 1: Next is police sergeant at Munda. John Police Station, Bron
Speaker 1: Joseph Umbrius, who spoke about arresting Simmons on the thirtieth
Speaker 1: of June twenty fourteen.
Speaker 11: We arrived just before nine point thirty and walked to
Speaker 11: the back of the house where a group of persons
Speaker 11: were sitting and standing around a fire. I observed a
Speaker 11: mail person standing near a tree away from the group,
Speaker 11: with his back turned to me. I approached this male person,
Speaker 11: who I believe to be David Robert Simmons, and spoke
Speaker 11: with him briefly before Detective Sergeant Evans joined us. Detective
Speaker 11: Sergeant Evans confirmed this person's name was David Simmons and
Speaker 11: advised him he was under arrest for murder. Detective Sergeant
Speaker 11: Evans requested that he place his hands out in front
Speaker 11: of him and that he was going to be handcuffed,
Speaker 11: and Simmons complied. I placed a set of handcuffs onto
Speaker 11: both wrists of Simmons, ensuring that I were suitably loose
Speaker 11: enough and locked into position properly. Detective Sergeant Evans and
Speaker 11: I walked Simmons from the backyard to the front of
Speaker 11: the property and near the back corner of the police vehicle.
Speaker 11: During this time, Simmons appeared to be affected by alcohol.
Speaker 11: He was questioning and at times argumentative and disrespectful. Detective
Speaker 11: Sergeant Evans commenced, providing Simmons with his rights. He managed
Speaker 11: to advise Simmons that he had the right to contact
Speaker 11: a lawyer. However, by that point Simmons continued to interrupt
Speaker 11: and be argumentative, and we placed him into the back
Speaker 11: of a security pod of my police vehicle. I told
Speaker 11: Simmons that we would give him two minutes and would
Speaker 11: speak with him again. After two minutes lapsed, I opened
Speaker 11: the door and he continued to interrupt and be argumentative.
Speaker 11: I introduced myself advised that I was sergeant at Mundijong
Speaker 11: Police Station. However, he became verbally abusive, saying I don't
Speaker 11: give a fuck fuck you. With his presenting demeanor, it
Speaker 11: was not practical to continue to try and explain the
Speaker 11: remainder of his rights. As I started to close the
Speaker 11: the door, he deliberately placed one of his boots in
Speaker 11: the gap between the door and the frame of the
Speaker 11: security pod, resisting the door closure. With the assistance of
Speaker 11: Constable Aaron Reichstein, we overcame his resistance, closed the door
Speaker 11: to the security pod, and he kicked the inside the
Speaker 11: door several times.
Speaker 1: At the inquest, Sergeant brad Nyand acknowledges the fact that
Speaker 1: there was no blood staining on the clothing of Gareth
Speaker 1: Price or David Simmons.
Speaker 12: I assume it's obvious that it's problematic that there had
Speaker 12: been some time before the clothes were seized and tested.
Speaker 1: Yes, and get this, No fingerprints, partial or otherwise were
Speaker 1: found on the rifle which killed Amy, even though we know,
Speaker 1: of course that at least three people touched it, including Amy,
Speaker 1: Gareth Price and Robert Simmons. Here he's questioned by counsel
Speaker 1: assisting the family, Peter Ward.
Speaker 13: Would it surprise you that from all those three interactions,
Speaker 13: plus whatever interaction there was when Miss Wensley was killed,
Speaker 13: there's not a single ridge detail able to be detected
Speaker 13: in the laser examination.
Speaker 14: Not really because of the amount of disturbance to the
Speaker 14: surface from the time as I understand it, to being
Speaker 14: placed in the armory at Munda John Police station. But
Speaker 14: it stands to reason if you've got physical evidence, that
Speaker 14: physical evidence can be removed if there is additional contact.
Speaker 13: Might it be the case that any prince that were
Speaker 13: on there could have been removed by the weapon having
Speaker 13: been wiped possibly quite possibly?
Speaker 1: The coroner dismissed this in her findings.
Speaker 15: Sergeant Nind gave evidence that Sometimes it is known that
Speaker 15: people have touched an object, but no fingerprints will be
Speaker 15: found on examination. Therefore, the absence of evidence of fingerprints,
Speaker 15: despite that a number of people had touched the shotgun,
Speaker 15: did not necessarily suggest the shotgun had been wiped clean
Speaker 15: before being seized by the police. So an absence of
Speaker 15: fingerprints is not conclusive in any way.
Speaker 1: Not conclusive in any way. The owner of the Serpentine
Speaker 1: Falls roadhouse, Robert Ibbotson, also provided evidence. His statement is
Speaker 1: dated Friday twenty seven of June twenty seventeen. He was
Speaker 1: standing near Simmons when he made the triple zero call,
Speaker 1: and in a statement he described him as calm, just
Speaker 1: a little bit edgy and nervous, but not crying. At
Speaker 1: the inquest, he elaborated on this, confirming neither Simmons nor
Speaker 1: Gareth Price.
Speaker 16: Were crying visibly, really upset or a blubbering mess by
Speaker 16: any means, but they were nervous and apprehensive now.
Speaker 1: Rick Kirk, Nancy's husband, also made a statement saying he
Speaker 1: believed Simmons was very jealous and short tempered and could
Speaker 1: not handle his alcohol. Rick also told them about the
Speaker 1: conversation he had with Amy a week before she died,
Speaker 1: where she said Simmons had held a knife to her throat.
Speaker 17: When he was drunk around me and my family, he'd
Speaker 17: be very civil, but he was drinking with his mates,
Speaker 17: it'd become quite nasty and out of control. Example David's jealousy.
Speaker 17: He was accusing Amy for cracking onto his dad, Robert Simmons.
Speaker 17: I mean David to get very jealous of people looking
Speaker 17: at Amy when they're at the pups. It s nap
Speaker 17: and it'd take him a long time to calm him down.
Speaker 1: Here, Rick Kirk is referring to an incident he witnessed
Speaker 1: where Simmons verbally attacked Amy after she made a throwaway
Speaker 1: comment that his father, Robert was a good looking older man.
Speaker 1: Upon hearing this, Simmons accused Amy of wanting to, in
Speaker 1: his words, root him. Sound familiar. It's similar to what
Speaker 1: Amy's friend Shelley Stanley recalls Simmons saying to her when
Speaker 1: she told him to be nicer to Amy. There's a
Speaker 1: list of the uncooperative witnesses Caide Sonice, Matthew Donovan, Alison Merrema,
Speaker 1: and Raymond Ernest mcirree. They also tracked down Gavin Totten,
Speaker 1: who is Shelley Stanley's former partner. In a statement, Totten
Speaker 1: said he knew Amy and Simmons for five or six years,
Speaker 1: and they would camp together regularly with their children. He
Speaker 1: admits initially thinking Amy's death was a suspicious suicide, but
Speaker 1: changed his mind after speaking to Simmons and Price. This
Speaker 1: is what he told investigators.
Speaker 18: Simmo was a huge drinker. He would drink every day,
Speaker 18: copious amounts of alcohol. He would easily put away a carton.
Speaker 18: Never saw Simma using drugs. But I wasn't born yesterday either,
Speaker 18: so I could tell when there was a change in
Speaker 18: his behavior. He went a bit funny. After what happened,
Speaker 18: he came across like he may have been on the
Speaker 18: gear or something like that. Probably on meth, I would say,
Speaker 18: But I never saw him using drugs of any kind.
Speaker 18: It was probably going on for about six months before
Speaker 18: Amy died that I thought he must have started using
Speaker 18: drugs or something. Simo went off the radar for a bit,
Speaker 18: so I started hanging out with Gareth a bit more,
Speaker 18: going hunting and stuff with him. That's when he told
Speaker 18: me what had happened on that day.
Speaker 1: When asked about Amy and simmons relationship, he said this.
Speaker 18: There was never anything that made me think they were
Speaker 18: having any issues at all. Simo never ever mentioned anything
Speaker 18: that made me think there were issues between them. Sima
Speaker 18: was pretty wiry, I mean, like in the head. He
Speaker 18: was a bit all over the place. But I never
Speaker 18: saw him hitter or anything like that. When he was working,
Speaker 18: he was good and off the gear, but he was
Speaker 18: in and out of work a fair bit.
Speaker 1: At the end of the interview, Totten was asked to
Speaker 1: review the statement and if he agreed with it. He
Speaker 1: said he did, but he wouldn't sign it. Ray McCary,
Speaker 1: according to Joshua Brdon, is the one who eventually told
Speaker 1: him about Amy's death. Initially, he said mckeary told him
Speaker 1: in person, then he changed that to being via text.
Speaker 1: If the name McCary rings a bell, that's because he's
Speaker 1: the brother of Gareth Price's ex wife, Rachel and Renee,
Speaker 1: who you'll recall sent Rachel this message on Facebook.
Speaker 3: Rachel, you're a give up dogs.
Speaker 15: I no longer have a sister.
Speaker 5: It's gloves off.
Speaker 19: When I see you next, maggot, I'll be coming for you,
Speaker 19: So take your big hole and fuck off somewhere for good.
Speaker 1: You cold case detectives managed to draft a statement according
Speaker 1: to what McKee told them, but despite several attempts, they
Speaker 1: were unable to find him again to sign it. He
Speaker 1: claimed he couldn't recall meeting Simmons or Price in the
Speaker 1: days following the shooting, and never asked them about it
Speaker 1: out of respect. He said he associated with Price about
Speaker 1: once a fortnight and Simmons once a month. In the end,
Speaker 1: Cold Case concluded the information he provided them wasn't that
Speaker 1: significant anyway. Then there's Cad Snise, the one who went
Speaker 1: pig shooting with Brydon around midnight the night Amy was killed.
Speaker 1: He at the very least would be able to account
Speaker 1: for Bridon's movements, but advised Cold Case investigators he did
Speaker 1: not wish to get involved. So that was that. But
Speaker 1: a few things that they didn't reference or seemed to
Speaker 1: see as relevant is the fact that the clothes they
Speaker 1: provided to police they were supposedly wearing at the time
Speaker 1: Amy died, didn't have any gun residue on them, despite
Speaker 1: having been shooting that afternoon. Whenever Operation Mix had problems
Speaker 1: understanding discrepancies or anomalies, they continued with the same explanation
Speaker 1: provided by detectives on that night that it was all
Speaker 1: subjective to individuals, and they found nothing suspicious about the
Speaker 1: varying descriptions provided by Simmons and Price of what happened
Speaker 1: when Amy was shot, such as them driving to the
Speaker 1: roadhouse to call Triples zero, even though Simmons' father says
Speaker 1: he almost always worked from home and there was a
Speaker 1: landline at the main house. Subsequently, on the twenty sixth
Speaker 1: of August twenty nineteen, the Cold Case Homicide Squad determined
Speaker 1: that Amy died either of a self inflicted gunshot, deliberate
Speaker 1: gunshot by another person, or the gun was accidentally discharged
Speaker 1: by Amy or another person. That was signed by Detective
Speaker 1: Sergeant AA Giles, and it was the same finding as
Speaker 1: Deputy State Coroner Sarah Linton made two years later.
Speaker 2: This home video shows David and Amy at a pool party.
Speaker 2: They seem happy enough, but there's always an edged David
Speaker 2: and Amy treads carefully around him lest something sets him off.
Speaker 2: In twenty eleven, she told her best friend Erin in
Speaker 2: a text that she was mad with herself because she
Speaker 2: loved Simmons and felt weak as she was on her
Speaker 2: way home to talk to him. However, after the car accident.
Speaker 2: As she became stronger again physically, she also regained her
Speaker 2: strength of character. Not long before her death, Amy said
Speaker 2: the Serpentine property she was living with David at was
Speaker 2: her bush hell. Amy knew what she had to do
Speaker 2: for her girl's and there was no going back this time.
Speaker 2: According to Nancy, who was referring to that phone call
Speaker 2: she had with Amy following that last fight, Amy was
Speaker 2: hysterical as she told her he had thrown her around
Speaker 2: the room.
Speaker 19: The crowd.
Speaker 2: By the end of the phone call, Nancy says, Amy
Speaker 2: had calmed down and tells her determinedly.
Speaker 5: I'll see you soon. I will come.
Speaker 2: When you look at everything they were privy to, it's
Speaker 2: difficult to see how they could have ignored the obvious
Speaker 2: signs of a desperate, domestic violent situation. After all, this
Speaker 2: was only ten years ago. Since starting this podcast, we've
Speaker 2: had many people reach out to us with information about
Speaker 2: what David Simmons and his mates had been up to
Speaker 2: since Amy died, including the things they've reportedly said to
Speaker 2: other people about Amy's death.
Speaker 1: One of those people is a friend who says she
Speaker 1: encouraged Amy to leave him after witnessing several incidents.
Speaker 2: I start recording excellent Thank you now.
Speaker 1: Al recently caught up with her, and she agreed to
Speaker 1: be interviewed, but has asked to only be referred to
Speaker 1: by her nickname maun So.
Speaker 3: I met Amy many years ago at when she was
Speaker 3: working at a pub in Armadale. I met her free
Speaker 3: there and then obviously she started seeing David, and I
Speaker 3: know David because he's somewhat related to the family, and yeah,
Speaker 3: just blossom from there. I'd see her at a family
Speaker 3: events as well, and then we just pretty much got
Speaker 3: close pretty fast.
Speaker 2: What did you think of their relationship? What did you witness?
Speaker 3: Amy loved Simo, you know, like she explained many times,
Speaker 3: like she never loved anyone before. She knew that he
Speaker 3: had his problems, and you know, I guess she felt
Speaker 3: like she could help. But Simili, on the other hand,
Speaker 3: it was you know, more than one times, you know,
Speaker 3: verbally aggressive.
Speaker 20: With Amy.
Speaker 5: You know, he's just disrespect actual.
Speaker 3: The way their relationship was was as if he was
Speaker 3: a boss.
Speaker 5: You know, she does as he says.
Speaker 3: And yes, there was a few things that she, you know,
Speaker 3: would come to me and say that she wasn't happy about.
Speaker 2: Okay, So is there any specific incidents that you were
Speaker 2: quite worried about.
Speaker 21: Ah.
Speaker 3: So the first incident that worried me is my sister
Speaker 3: and I both had these dogs. They were sisters and
Speaker 3: my dog her dog's ear off and they were fighting
Speaker 3: and stuff. So we had to look for another home
Speaker 3: for this dog. David and approached us and said, you know,
Speaker 3: he was looking for a dog for his pig hunting.
Speaker 5: And stuff, and that she'd be a perfect dog.
Speaker 3: Could he'd please take care, he'd look after he blah
Speaker 3: blah blah. My sister said to him that as long
Speaker 3: as you look after her, she is a good dog.
Speaker 3: But we just can't have the two dogs fighting like
Speaker 3: it's getting too much.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, ye. He took her. And then you know
Speaker 5: a few months ago.
Speaker 3: Brian and I realized what I'm going around there that
Speaker 3: I'm not seeing Bella, so that I asked Amy.
Speaker 5: I said, Amy, was Belly, what i'ven't seen her in
Speaker 5: a while?
Speaker 3: And she started crying and she said, Simmo took us
Speaker 3: out bush and the dog and he shot her in
Speaker 3: the head. I said, but why she was a good dog,
Speaker 3: and he said the reason why she kept escaping.
Speaker 5: I said, but I could.
Speaker 3: Have found her another home and he's like she said,
Speaker 3: I tried to tell him that, but he just he
Speaker 3: wouldn't listen.
Speaker 5: He just shot the dog in the head and left
Speaker 5: the dog out in the bush and off you went.
Speaker 5: So that is just that's just cruel. How could someone
Speaker 5: do that?
Speaker 3: So that was the massive Well, like, if he could
Speaker 3: do this to a poor innocent dog, you know, you
Speaker 3: need to stay away.
Speaker 21: You know.
Speaker 5: She's cried to me.
Speaker 3: About him, saying to her that after the car accident
Speaker 3: that they had, that he caused that.
Speaker 5: You know, she should have died in that acci them.
Speaker 3: And she burst into tears telling me and again asked her.
Speaker 3: I begged for her to just leave him. And she
Speaker 3: deserves so much better. She was beautiful, She could get
Speaker 3: anyone that she wanted another time I was staying there.
Speaker 5: I used to often when he wasn't.
Speaker 3: Now I'd never stay if he was there because you
Speaker 3: always made me feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 5: I just the vibe was just off with him. That
Speaker 5: felt like intimidated and scared. I guess yeah.
Speaker 3: Get a call from her mum, Nancy, and she says, oh.
Speaker 5: Simmo's running down town now.
Speaker 3: Simo was meant to be in the mines and Amy's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: you know, brace yourself. I don't know what's going to
Speaker 3: happen here. And I was kind of like, what's going on,
Speaker 3: you know, didn't quite understand.
Speaker 20: But he came in.
Speaker 3: He didn't even say hello anything, and he's just slamming
Speaker 3: open every door, every cupboard, door, even cupboards that a
Speaker 3: person could not fit into.
Speaker 5: He's opening everything, slamming it where you know, where the
Speaker 5: fuck are they? Where are these men? It was just
Speaker 5: me and Amy and the kids, you know. Amy said,
Speaker 5: you know, what the fuck are you talking about? Idiot?
Speaker 3: You know, if there's no other men, why would we
Speaker 3: have men here when our babies were here? And he
Speaker 3: just started skitzing. He's like, I know, he's a base
Speaker 3: liing to me, he's a basin on it. And I
Speaker 3: tried to tell him, like, sim shut up.
Speaker 5: You know you're an idiot.
Speaker 22: I said, you have a woman here who loves you
Speaker 22: and would do anything for you.
Speaker 5: I said, she's even too good for you. Yet she's here.
Speaker 22: If she was going to cheat on you, she would
Speaker 22: have done her ages ago, I said, but she's here,
Speaker 22: you know, forget every bock and call.
Speaker 5: I said, you're going to lose her. You keep going
Speaker 5: this like quit.
Speaker 3: And he just kind of just kept going back at her,
Speaker 3: and there's two kept going. So I was just like, nah,
Speaker 3: I'm going to pack my bags, packed my own, my
Speaker 3: son's stuff, got it by the door.
Speaker 5: I then stood in between them with my back towards.
Speaker 3: Him, facing Amy, and I said, they go pack your guys,
Speaker 3: some stuff will.
Speaker 5: Go, and you're coming home with me. And she's like, no,
Speaker 5: nah Na, And I said no, packed your stuff.
Speaker 3: Were going And then simmo, you know, he goes me
Speaker 3: on the shoulder, turns me around and he says, now
Speaker 3: look me.
Speaker 5: He's like, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: I don't know why I do this, and he's getting
Speaker 3: all emotional. He's like, I don't know why I have
Speaker 3: these thoughts. He's like, got it, you know. I was
Speaker 3: convinced there was someone.
Speaker 5: Any I was like, well, mate, I said, look at
Speaker 5: the fucking kids. I said, they're all scared. They're all crying,
Speaker 5: and said you've scared him. I said, I don't want
Speaker 5: to stay here anymore.
Speaker 22: And I don't want her to stay here because I
Speaker 22: don't know if her and the kids are safe. Because
Speaker 22: now I promise she's all safe here. I don't just
Speaker 22: leave because I've come home early. You were meant to
Speaker 22: stay here, I say, stay, I said, well.
Speaker 5: All right, no worries.
Speaker 3: Stayed, mainly because I was scared that if I left
Speaker 3: that was.
Speaker 5: He going to start abusing her or whatever.
Speaker 3: And I feel guilty for leaving, so I said. I
Speaker 3: didn't even sleep that night. I'm their room is the
Speaker 3: room connecting her to the room that we were staying in,
Speaker 3: and I just was listening, making sure she was okay.
Speaker 20: You know.
Speaker 5: By the next day everything seemed to calm down.
Speaker 3: I tried to then, sneakily behind his back, say to her, like, look,
Speaker 3: just pack your stuff like I've got you, nothing's going
Speaker 3: to happen.
Speaker 5: You just get you and your kids in the car
Speaker 5: and will go. And she's like, no, no, you know,
Speaker 5: the kids have got school. It's all right. Like everything
Speaker 5: I'll be a fine is over it now.
Speaker 3: And yeah, And that was only a couple of incidents.
Speaker 5: And obviously watching the news.
Speaker 3: And listening to podcasts, I've learned so much more than
Speaker 3: I didn't even.
Speaker 5: Know about fake to heart.
Speaker 1: My poor friend, Mom says, this was only a few
Speaker 1: months before Amy died.
Speaker 2: Can you tell me about when you learned what happened
Speaker 2: to her? That day, like on who told you? Do
Speaker 2: you recall?
Speaker 20: Yes?
Speaker 3: So my auntie came over and said that Amy passed
Speaker 3: away and I was like, which Amy, Who what are
Speaker 3: you talking about? And she's like, yeah, Amy's gone and
Speaker 3: I said, my Amy's got said.
Speaker 5: What do you know? You've got it wrong? And I said, well,
Speaker 5: how what happened? She said suicide? And I said, nah, no,
Speaker 5: she can't of she wouldn't have.
Speaker 3: She wouldn't have left her girls. Her girls were her world.
Speaker 3: Then she said that she shot herself in the head
Speaker 3: and the girls were out in the car and I said, nah, nah,
Speaker 3: na na. I said, that's going to be bullshit.
Speaker 5: I said, she would never have shot herself in the head,
Speaker 5: especially if her girls are in the car listening to
Speaker 5: the sound. I said, she wouldn't have done it. I
Speaker 5: said nah, And I just got shut down.
Speaker 3: I was pretty much told that you know, it is
Speaker 3: what it is, it's suicide. It's you know, you don't
Speaker 3: know what people are going through in those moments. So
Speaker 3: in time, I just, you know, took it on board
Speaker 3: that it was suicide, even though I had doubts, scouts
Speaker 3: all along that nah, something's not right.
Speaker 1: In twenty fourteen, there were ninety five recorded deaths due
Speaker 1: to family and domestic violence, with Western Australia having the
Speaker 1: second highest proportion of FDV offenses. The risk is heightened
Speaker 1: in remote communities such as Serpentine. Now. Latest police statistics
Speaker 1: show a ten percent rise in reported assaults and threatening
Speaker 1: behavior against family members between the months of April and
Speaker 1: June this year. If you listen to the news regularly,
Speaker 1: you'll be aware that there are many cases that are
Speaker 1: only now being recognized as domestic violence related. Unfortunately, it's
Speaker 1: usually seen as too late, but not in the eyes
Speaker 1: of Charon dev Sinh, a family violence advocate who has
Speaker 1: helped many families of victims in their plight for justice
Speaker 1: for their loved ones, including Amy's family. Sharon Deff, thanks
Speaker 1: very much for talking to us about this. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Jill MANA getting an insight into the expertise that you've
Speaker 1: been able to offer to the whole case and specifically
Speaker 1: the family. I know you've done a lot of research,
Speaker 1: and you've got a lot of information from family and friends,
Speaker 1: and you've been able to build this intricate picture of
Speaker 1: Amy's life, the sort of life she was leading. Can
Speaker 1: you describe it? For us.
Speaker 4: It's life hundreds of thousands of Australian women lead and
Speaker 4: hundreds of thousands of Australian children live in. It's a
Speaker 4: life fraught with wanting psychological and physical violence to end,
Speaker 4: and the hope that things will get better and the
Speaker 4: reality that the violence almost always gets Moro cute. You know,
Speaker 4: Amy was really building for her future, you know, especially
Speaker 4: her daughter's education. She has had a stone like belief
Speaker 4: that if she could get her daughter's the best education possible,
Speaker 4: that that would lead them as a generation and probably
Speaker 4: her out of a life of abuse, a life of despair,
Speaker 4: a life of uncertainty and insecurity.
Speaker 1: Was there any clear evidence did you find any clear
Speaker 1: evidence that she was planning to leave?
Speaker 4: David Simmons, Yeah, we found a range of evidence about
Speaker 4: Amy's planning to escape.
Speaker 1: Well, what sort of evidence?
Speaker 4: Evidence that she had been wanting to move back to
Speaker 4: Panjara to be very close to her family, and that
Speaker 4: she had talked to a man about a sublet arrangement.
Speaker 4: She told various relatives that she was leaving. She was
Speaker 4: quite blunt about it. I'm going, I'm going. It's quite
Speaker 4: blunt and determined about it, and she told him I'm going,
Speaker 4: I'm going.
Speaker 1: You have no doubt about that from all the things
Speaker 1: you've seen and the people you've talked to. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: crystal clear that she had a pathway forward that didn't
Speaker 1: include him.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, She'd begged him to change, She'd pleaded with him
Speaker 4: to change, she wanted him to change, she wanted to
Speaker 4: have a family intact because that's not something she'd experienced
Speaker 4: a lot of in her life.
Speaker 1: And she was laying the groundwork. Was she to start
Speaker 1: a new life for her and a girl's.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and the laying of the groundwork was escaping from
Speaker 4: Simmons into the arms of her family and friends.
Speaker 1: The most dangerous phase is when one party signals an
Speaker 1: intention to leave to the absolutely.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, that's the crossroads of the crucible of so many
Speaker 4: domestic violence homicides, and it's why leaving is so dangerous,
Speaker 4: and women are tremendously fearful of taking that final act
Speaker 4: of leading because they're not leaving the violence, the violence
Speaker 4: is actually escalating all around them. So that's why I
Speaker 4: think Amy was trying to pre plan, pre formulate, and
Speaker 4: escape plant The fact that Amy wanted to drive two months.
Speaker 1: Because Nancy did offer to come and pick her up.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, absolutely, any mum would.
Speaker 1: But you think she rejected that because there was a
Speaker 1: sense of urgency to get out.
Speaker 4: I think she rejected it because she was so determined
Speaker 4: to get out herself.
Speaker 2: Charondev says, there's a key piece of evidence which proves
Speaker 2: that Amy wasn't coming back.
Speaker 4: Two years later after Amy's death, when I finally got
Speaker 4: to see her handbag, I was wearing forensic clouds and
Speaker 4: all of that evidence was available to the police for
Speaker 4: many years, and I opened up her handbag for the
Speaker 4: very first time, because the police had never opened up
Speaker 4: her handbag, and right at the top of her personal
Speaker 4: things was her passport.
Speaker 1: That was on the top of her handbag.
Speaker 4: When you unzipped it, the first thing you saw was
Speaker 4: a passport, and I took a photo of it because
Speaker 4: I realized the significance of it.
Speaker 1: The police had never looked at.
Speaker 4: That, No, not to my knowledge.
Speaker 1: Well, that's unusual as.
Speaker 4: It's shockingly neglectful, because in our time, the things you
Speaker 4: look for the phone, the laptop, the iPad, and what's
Speaker 4: in your handbag, what are the things you're most likely
Speaker 4: to run or have in a go bag? And then
Speaker 4: draw inferences or draw evidence from that They, to my knowledge,
Speaker 4: had never opened that bag, had never done an analysis,
Speaker 4: and had never brought a systemic expert domestic violence lens
Speaker 4: to any of Amy's accounts of violence, or friends accounts
Speaker 4: of violence, or any evidence they had of Simmons's violence
Speaker 4: in the years prior.
Speaker 1: Even a basic student studying victimology would know that the
Speaker 1: first thing you do to work out whether that person
Speaker 1: was in any way implicated or was the essential victim,
Speaker 1: you would look at their personal belonging, and that you
Speaker 1: can't get much more personal than a woman's handbag.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and you're looking at what absolutely mattered to Amy
Speaker 4: in the rush to escape, you know, and to see
Speaker 4: that passport tells you a few things, and it tells
Speaker 4: you that she's not coming back. He's got all id
Speaker 4: and not having looked at that bag, not having analyzed
Speaker 4: its contents, and is about a police judgment that Amy's
Speaker 4: death wasn't worth investigating, her family weren't worth supporting in
Speaker 4: that investigation process, and Simmons and his associates weren't really
Speaker 4: worth pursuing. Those I think are the three fundamental judgments
Speaker 4: that contaminated that investigation.
Speaker 1: What do you know of simmons background in terms of
Speaker 1: social behavior.
Speaker 4: Long history of drug of alcohol abuse, a long history
Speaker 4: of violence to people he knew, and long history of
Speaker 4: violence against police and people he drink with or fight
Speaker 4: within pubs.
Speaker 1: Well, what do you think that is? Is he just
Speaker 1: fallen between the cracks in the system or is there
Speaker 1: something else?
Speaker 21: No?
Speaker 4: I just do I think. I think the police, particularly
Speaker 4: investigatory police, detective police. You know, I never had him
Speaker 4: on the map because Amy probably never went to police.
Speaker 4: Amy is one of the ninety five of people who
Speaker 4: never disclosed to the police because it makes it more
Speaker 4: dangerous or they're fearful of an indifferent response. So he
Speaker 4: was being mapped in terms of his violence against everyone
Speaker 4: else but Amy, and they never factored in his history
Speaker 4: of violence at the home front. They never took, to
Speaker 4: my knowledge, went back to his previous partners and said
Speaker 4: things like, has he ever threatened you with a gun?
Speaker 4: Has he ever held a gun to your head? Has
Speaker 4: he ever been extremely violent when you've tried to leave.
Speaker 1: So there was never any background checks.
Speaker 4: Nothing to look at the propensity and patterns of this
Speaker 4: man's violence.
Speaker 1: That's what the police used as an excuse in the inquest.
Speaker 1: Wasn't it. They said, Look, there was nothing on the
Speaker 1: police database. There was no formal complaints from Amy.
Speaker 4: That's right, and that's because ninety victims don't go to
Speaker 4: the police, or are afraid to go to the police,
Speaker 4: or get indifferent, neglectful responses to the police. It's very
Speaker 4: rare that a victim gets a positive response to police.
Speaker 4: And Amy was focused on escape.
Speaker 1: But in this case, there was a massive red flag,
Speaker 1: wasn't there. I hear what you're saying about a lot
Speaker 1: of domestic violence related cases, but in this case, there
Speaker 1: was a massive red flag. Here's a mother who dies
Speaker 1: from a gunshot wound while her own children are fifty
Speaker 1: sixty meters away in a car that has the engine running,
Speaker 1: and she's packed their things to.
Speaker 4: Leave, and she's fleeing herself. But the detectives and force command,
Speaker 4: the hierarchy all the way to the Commissioner of Police,
Speaker 4: were absolutely committed to proving that this was a suicide
Speaker 4: and absolutely committed to saying that those forensic failures, the
Speaker 4: cleaning of the scene that we permitted was inconsequential because
Speaker 4: she's sic hearted anyway. It was one of the most
Speaker 4: chilling aspects of the prosecution of Amy as a victim.
Speaker 1: Why did WA police mistakenly identify Amy as an Indigenous
Speaker 1: woman on the night of the shooting.
Speaker 4: I think Amy looked indigenous. You know, she had the
Speaker 4: beauty of anung Our woman, the unique beauty of a
Speaker 4: nung Our woman. Her children are Indigenous, clearly, and Simmons
Speaker 4: was probably clearly Indigenous himself.
Speaker 1: Did that make a difference to the way police approached
Speaker 1: the investigation.
Speaker 4: Apart from the uniform who first arrived, It made an
Speaker 4: indelible difference, I believe.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's that strong?
Speaker 4: I think that's strong. I have sat with families in
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court of West Australia and talked to them
Speaker 4: outside the court and the question they asked me about
Speaker 4: why Western Australia has some of the highest rates of
Speaker 4: homicide against Aberginal women, particularly Aberighin women and children in
Speaker 4: the world. They asked me that question, why are our
Speaker 4: women worth so little? And I've gone to the former
Speaker 4: premiere and put it to him. I said, this is
Speaker 4: a question that only leadership can answer. In your state,
Speaker 4: you're one of the richer states in the world. Why
Speaker 4: are Aberiginal women and women like Amy worth so little.
Speaker 2: Just to clarify he Amy's grandmother was tie. She looked Indigenous,
Speaker 2: but she wasn't. Mission Australia reports that Indigenous Australiallians are
Speaker 2: thirty two times more likely to be hospitalized for family
Speaker 2: violence than non Indigenous people. In two thousand and nine,
Speaker 2: five years prior to Amy's death, Indigenous woman Andrea Picket
Speaker 2: was brutally murdered by her husband after seeking emergency refuge
Speaker 2: and being turned away.
Speaker 10: Stabbed seventeen times outside a house on Wilby Street, North
Speaker 10: Beach by Kenneth Pickett.
Speaker 23: She ended every conversation with the police with the same words,
Speaker 23: what are you going to do?
Speaker 20: Wait fim to kill me before you do something.
Speaker 23: And that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: You've been involved in a lot of cases where women
Speaker 1: have been hurt, badly hurt. How does this compare.
Speaker 4: I'm haunted by all those women's murders and all those
Speaker 4: children's murders, and the enforced disappearances of habitual women especially.
Speaker 4: You know, it's destroying me.
Speaker 1: You feel that very deeply.
Speaker 4: I'm broken. It's not to say I'm not fighting, but
Speaker 4: I'm totally broken.
Speaker 1: It's very hard, isn't especially when you see the great
Speaker 1: sadness from the family, because it's not just normal grief.
Speaker 1: There's an extra layer on top of that, because it's
Speaker 1: the frustration of having to deal with the grief and
Speaker 1: then battle authorities to get something done.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they've battled every minute of every day in the
Speaker 4: last nearly ten years. They know they have a life sentence.
Speaker 4: They've told me, we all have life sentences, and this
Speaker 4: country cannot leave it to the victims and the survivors
Speaker 4: and the children and the parents who are grieving to
Speaker 4: change the fundamental culture and story about violence against women
Speaker 4: and children in this country. And that's what these families
Speaker 4: had to do and continue to do.
Speaker 2: Chin have sat through every day. In quest, he recalls
Speaker 2: that when the time came for David to face the coroner,
Speaker 2: he was reportedly at the pub.
Speaker 1: Is it true the police lawyer got up and did
Speaker 1: not support a motion to issue a bench warrant to
Speaker 1: make him turn up.
Speaker 4: That's absolutely correct. She opposed the making of a bench
Speaker 4: warrant to bring him into custody only for the purposes
Speaker 4: of answering questions.
Speaker 1: So after all those years, let me get this right,
Speaker 1: Sharon dev I'm struggling with this after all those years,
Speaker 1: the police know that they botched the investigation. Something chronic,
Speaker 1: as you say, catastrophically when the opportunity is there to
Speaker 1: question from a state coroner, the person at the center
Speaker 1: of this entire case, the police act against the interests
Speaker 1: of the family.
Speaker 4: And the interests of the public.
Speaker 1: How can that not be reprehensible?
Speaker 4: It was just an an a layer of reprehensibility in
Speaker 4: the inquest.
Speaker 1: But athema to anybody who's ever been to an inquest
Speaker 1: will tell you. The coroner one of the first things
Speaker 1: they do is they say, this is not a trial.
Speaker 1: This is about information.
Speaker 4: This is about trying to get to the.
Speaker 1: Facts, information gathering exercise at its very best. So not
Speaker 1: getting information from the person who was there on the
Speaker 1: scene when a young mum dies from a gunshot wound.
Speaker 1: How is that explainable from the police side of things?
Speaker 1: Why the hell would they act against the interests of
Speaker 1: the family.
Speaker 4: Because they've acted against interest to the family for almost
Speaker 4: a decade. I've read every email they've sent. I've written
Speaker 4: many letters that they've finished and sent. There are thousands
Speaker 4: of emails and letters and phone calls, and they are
Speaker 4: only asking for the minimum they asked for the minimum.
Speaker 4: They expected that the Deputy State Coroner would call David
Speaker 4: Simmons or compel him to give evidence, and they expected
Speaker 4: the police to be interested in what he had to say.
Speaker 1: The net result was that eventually they found him and
Speaker 1: he was allowed to appear via video link.
Speaker 4: It's correct.
Speaker 1: So they didn't even make him turn up in person.
Speaker 4: No, no, he never faced the family in person in court,
Speaker 4: or he never faced the coroner in court. It was
Speaker 4: all done why a video from Armadale Court and he
Speaker 4: was very casual, slouched. The thing I remember about his
Speaker 4: evidence was him yawning while he is being asked questions
Speaker 4: about Amy's killing, and him being surrounded by detectives and
Speaker 4: police sitting in the in the row of the court
Speaker 4: from Armadale, and then the family being left alone after
Speaker 4: so long, never to see him answer a question directly
Speaker 4: person to person in a room, you know, it was appalling.
Speaker 1: It is appalling the man in chart the Commissioner of
Speaker 1: Police in Wa Cole Blanche, refuses to sit down with
Speaker 1: me like you're doing today and take questions on this subject.
Speaker 1: Are you surprised by that?
Speaker 4: No, I'm not surprised by it because it takes our
Speaker 4: leadership and commitment and vision and a capacity to walk
Speaker 4: your talk, to confront your failures. We are not going
Speaker 4: to make excuses for our failures. If we can get
Speaker 4: it wrong, then we can also get it right. Where's
Speaker 4: Cole Blanche explaining all of this conduct to the family,
Speaker 4: to the citizens in West Australia, to the people of
Speaker 4: this country. Where is he explaining similar conduct to so
Speaker 4: many other families.
Speaker 1: He's not explaining anything. But he gave them. He gave
Speaker 1: them a letter of regret. What did you think of that?
Speaker 4: Well, he got the date of Amy's killing wrong in
Speaker 4: that letter of regret. That's how much attention to detail
Speaker 4: he paid in that letter. So it just reinforced the
Speaker 4: worthlessness of Amy and the worthlessness of her family, the
Speaker 4: invisibility of Amy and her family and all victims. Really,
Speaker 4: if you can't get that crucial detail right, what are
Speaker 4: your condolences worth? And what are your commitments to the
Speaker 4: future of ending family violence? Possibly worth? All I see
Speaker 4: is of acuum of leadership. You know, wa is one
Speaker 4: of the richest states in the world. They have money
Speaker 4: for stadiums and they have money for mining. But when
Speaker 4: it comes to women fleeing violence, you know many of
Speaker 4: them are running for their lives, literally in the street,
Speaker 4: running for their lives. No access to proper refugees, no
Speaker 4: access is to easy, safe avenues of housing and survivability.
Speaker 1: The police insistence for so long that this was a suicide,
Speaker 1: How does any of this makes sense to you?
Speaker 4: I think they couldn't come to terms with the fact
Speaker 4: that the investigation was so catastrophically compromised, and they didn't
Speaker 4: have the courage and the insight and the commitment to
Speaker 4: the people of Western Australia to admit that.
Speaker 2: What's acknowledged by almost everyone is that the place her
Speaker 2: body was found was an unusual one for anyone to
Speaker 2: choose to take their own life. It's also worth remembering
Speaker 2: Amy had taken steps to ensure that those closest to
Speaker 2: her were aware of what was happening in her relationship,
Speaker 2: and she made certain there would be evidence, such as
Speaker 2: the photo Amy took of herself with bruises around her neck.
Speaker 1: Just coming back to that point about domestic violence. I
Speaker 1: think this is interesting because we've touched on the fact
Speaker 1: that there was nothing in the database. The police said
Speaker 1: clearly in the inquest we didn't have any histy of
Speaker 1: domestic violence between the pair, because there was nothing in
Speaker 1: the database. There was no formal complaint ever registered by Amy,
Speaker 1: and yet the police had access to her telephone, her
Speaker 1: mobile phone from the moment this happened. Yes, and this
Speaker 1: is a photograph that we have managed to extract from
Speaker 1: her mobile phone, which the police had access to virtually
Speaker 1: from the moment it happened.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's correct. This is from a police download, an
Speaker 4: e crime download.
Speaker 1: And yet the police have never produced that photograph.
Speaker 4: Never to the family, never to the court. I've never
Speaker 4: seen it disclosed. And the significance of what's in this
Speaker 4: photo is really severe strangulation and other bruising. They had
Speaker 4: access at all times to this photo, you know. And
Speaker 4: this photo is taken by Amy.
Speaker 1: From the metadata on this it would appear it's taken
Speaker 1: about two years before the incident, just over two years.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: What did you think the coroner's open finding?
Speaker 4: I think the coroner's in quest completely failed to apply
Speaker 4: a specialist domestic violence lens over all of Amy's help
Speaker 4: seeking behavior and all of Simmons's violence, as well as
Speaker 4: the institutional indifference of detectives and police. So I don't
Speaker 4: think the coroner finding reflects at all the deep violent
Speaker 4: reality of Amy's death. I think it subjects it to
Speaker 4: the same kind of disbelief and you know, sit on
Speaker 4: the fence that the detectives on the night and the
Speaker 4: detectives subsequently embodied.
Speaker 1: There's plenty of things in this case for the police
Speaker 1: to work with. There's plenty of loose ends.
Speaker 4: There's plenty of loose ends, there's plenty of emergent possible
Speaker 4: lines of inquiry. There's plenty of strategies that they can employ.
Speaker 4: A question is why not really help us and explain
Speaker 4: a little bit more about this if you would.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 16: This was a program of works essentially designed to pay
Speaker 16: due recognition to the families who have lost loved ones
Speaker 16: essentially homicide investigations or long term missing persons investigations, and
Speaker 16: it's about providing the investigators at the Special Crime Squad
Speaker 16: the best possible opportunity to capture the evidence that is
Speaker 16: out there through people who can be incentivized to come forward,
Speaker 16: and that is through the injection of a one million
Speaker 16: dollar reward for each of those cases. That involved a
Speaker 16: lot of work behind the scenes which the team of
Speaker 16: Special Crime Squad have conducted. It involved lot of liaison
Speaker 16: with families, next of kin of loved ones who have
Speaker 16: been lost in tragic circumstances but were thrilled with the result.
Speaker 16: Here today at Parliament.
Speaker 1: House, in a landmark announcement, the WA Government is introducing
Speaker 1: a pilot family and Domestic violence program aimed at convicting
Speaker 1: more offenders.
Speaker 12: This program, and she was forensic evidence will be expertly
Speaker 12: collected using the best available methods and technology to successfully
Speaker 12: prosecute perpetrators and stop them from further offending. In the
Speaker 12: interests of justice, it is essential that all relevant evidence
Speaker 12: in family and domestic dvance prosecutions is put before the courts.
Speaker 1: According to the government website, the program ensures experienced doctors
Speaker 1: will undertake trauma informed forensic examinations and prepare expert reports
Speaker 1: for court. They will also provide testimonies to maximize the
Speaker 1: chances of offenders being convicted and zont House Association will
Speaker 1: provide support and accommodation for victim survivors through the whole process.
Speaker 1: Now that all sounds great in theory, but one thing
Speaker 1: our research shows is the ongoing reluctance from authorities to
Speaker 1: pursue known offenders.
Speaker 2: Or it seems tips on cold cases, which they bungled.
Speaker 2: At the start, I caught up with a young woman
Speaker 2: named Chris, who says she provided startling new information involving
Speaker 2: Joshua Brighten to crime Stoppers after watching our Spotlight episode.
Speaker 21: So I rang them first and spoke to someone on
Speaker 21: the call center or something, and I mentioned that, you know,
Speaker 21: we'd had this conversation with Joshua and he said about
Speaker 21: moving the body and burning the clothes, and the operator
Speaker 21: or guests whoever I spoke to, said, oh, it's probably
Speaker 21: best if you flick an email through via the page
Speaker 21: so then we can have it documented and ring you
Speaker 21: back or getting contact type thing.
Speaker 20: So I then jumped on the Crimes.
Speaker 21: Office website and followed the instructions he gave me and
Speaker 21: filled out form. So I knew it was around two
Speaker 21: thousand and eighteen, and I just gave information that who
Speaker 21: was there, what the conversation was.
Speaker 20: About, very briefly, because I.
Speaker 21: Thought, oh, well, when they bring me, I can give
Speaker 21: more detail.
Speaker 20: But I just explained about.
Speaker 21: How they'd found a dead girl, their friend, they'd been pigging,
Speaker 21: and they burnt their clothes.
Speaker 20: So I gave just those details. And you haven't heard
Speaker 20: anything since amazing.
Speaker 2: It's amazing just to clarify those. So Joshua had a
Speaker 2: few dreams, right.
Speaker 21: Yes, So he was cooking dinner for me and my
Speaker 21: partner and his girlfriend at the time, and he had
Speaker 21: it wouldn't be drunk, he probably would have had like
Speaker 21: maybe three or four by that stage, and we're just
Speaker 21: all sitting around in her lounge room and he just
Speaker 21: come out with, oh, me and Price, he found our
Speaker 21: mates missus dead and we were like what because there
Speaker 21: was no way in context anything.
Speaker 20: We were speaking about.
Speaker 21: But we were all just kind of puzzled, like why would.
Speaker 20: You come out with that.
Speaker 21: We weren't, you know, talking about anything remotely close to that.
Speaker 21: And he said, yeah, we moved the body. And I
Speaker 21: was like, so, did you move the body to see
Speaker 21: if she.
Speaker 20: Was still alive? Like, and he said, oh, no, she
Speaker 20: was dead. And I was like, well, why would you
Speaker 20: move the body then?
Speaker 21: And he said something like it was something along the
Speaker 21: lines of like oh, the family would have been upset
Speaker 21: tour and we were kind of like, this is really weird.
Speaker 20: Like I remember my.
Speaker 21: Partner because my four year old son was sitting in
Speaker 21: between him and josh and my partner like picked him
Speaker 21: up and moved him across the room because he was like,
Speaker 21: you're not sitting next to him, because that's how rattled
Speaker 21: my partner was here this and we were like oh okay,
Speaker 21: like and he goes, yeah, she was dead. We'd been pigging,
Speaker 21: and we like founder and then we had to burn
Speaker 21: the clothes because the cops were chasing us and we
Speaker 21: didn't want them to think that we had anything.
Speaker 20: To do with it. And we were just like, but
Speaker 20: if you'd been because we said, well, why do.
Speaker 21: You bend your clothes because we've been picking, they had
Speaker 21: pig blood and we were like, well, if you had
Speaker 21: peg blood, they'd be able to know that it's pig blood.
Speaker 20: It's different to human blood, you know.
Speaker 21: And he was like, oh yeah, no, we just got
Speaker 21: rid of them, like and he made a comment like
Speaker 21: it was my favorite pair of shorts, and.
Speaker 20: We were like okay.
Speaker 21: We kind of fizzled the conversation out because we were
Speaker 21: just like, this is really uncomfortable, but we didn't really.
Speaker 20: Want to talk about it. It wasn't anything related.
Speaker 21: Also, at the time, Josh we used to tell stories,
Speaker 21: so we're like, oh, maybe this is just one of.
Speaker 20: His stories, Like my friend.
Speaker 21: She was just like, what are you on about? And
Speaker 21: he goes, oh, I told you this, and she's like, no,
Speaker 21: you didn't. I'm pretty sure I remember this slight. He's like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 21: I told you And she was just as confused as
Speaker 21: what we were. And we didn't really you know, devil
Speaker 21: too much into it because we were just like, is
Speaker 21: he having us on or is just like you know,
Speaker 21: it was just crazy like and it wasn't until we
Speaker 21: see in this news on spotlight that were like, oh
Speaker 21: maybe this is what Josh was talking about like that night.
Speaker 2: What's your reaction to not hearing anything back from police?
Speaker 21: I thought they would have at least inquired or you know,
Speaker 21: wanted something like a statement or something like that, or
Speaker 21: you know, is.
Speaker 20: That or you can give us sight? Is anyone else
Speaker 20: because I did say on there that you.
Speaker 21: Know, there was myself and my best ye and my partner,
Speaker 21: so you know, there was three people witnessed to this conversation.
Speaker 20: But yeah, no, I haven't heard anything back.
Speaker 21: And I did leave details for them to contact me,
Speaker 21: so it wasn't like I was anonymous or anything.
Speaker 20: And yeah, I'm just thinking.
Speaker 21: They're probably back pedal, living thinking, oh my gosh, like
Speaker 21: there is so much here that we've missed, and maybe
Speaker 21: we just.
Speaker 20: Ignore it will go away. And I'm like, well, I
Speaker 20: don't think it's going to go away.
Speaker 21: Like, you know, because quite often over the like years
Speaker 21: since Josh has said it, we've had little conversations here
Speaker 21: and they're like, oh, that story, like it's always just
Speaker 21: sat with us, like his stories.
Speaker 20: Just sat with us.
Speaker 21: And then you know, just now to have a background
Speaker 21: to the story, we're just like wow, like and I
Speaker 21: can't let it go until I've known that I've given
Speaker 21: the information that I've been told, Like whether it might
Speaker 21: not be the right story, but to me, I think
Speaker 21: it's important to get it out there and have it
Speaker 21: be heard and investigate it so, you know, because it
Speaker 21: could be other people out there that you know, have
Speaker 21: been told something and it's all little pieces to the puzzle.
Speaker 2: I think, Well, that's right, It's why wouldn't you be
Speaker 2: hauling them back in the question.
Speaker 21: Yeah, yeah, Well, you know, we had similar things with just.
Speaker 20: For example, my cousin.
Speaker 5: The two girls that murdered her.
Speaker 21: They told other people within the two days that she
Speaker 21: was missing, but none of them come forward because they
Speaker 21: were worried they were going to be next, and like
Speaker 21: you know, once they were questioned later on, it's like
Speaker 21: like it's not like they had a gun or anything
Speaker 21: like that. Like you know, you had a choice to
Speaker 21: say something, but you chose not to say anything, or
Speaker 21: as I'd be the person that wanted to say something
Speaker 21: and you know, like not be scared to say anything.
Speaker 21: So I'm hoping, you know, there's other people out there
Speaker 21: that like might come forward.
Speaker 20: If more people are coming forward, you know, like and
Speaker 20: have that voice.
Speaker 21: And because Amy doesn't have the voice anymore, so be
Speaker 21: good for other people to have that voice and.
Speaker 20: Get it out.
Speaker 2: So with someone convicted in your cousins.
Speaker 20: Yeah, the two girls were convicted. There was rumors that
Speaker 20: there could have.
Speaker 21: Been someone to help them, but nothing ever come to light.
Speaker 1: Chris is referring to teenager Eliza Davis, who was choked
Speaker 1: to death with a speaker wire and buried in a
Speaker 1: shallow grave in Collie, a town in the Southwest region
Speaker 1: of Western Australia.
Speaker 24: After partying together the night before, Eliza's two housemates waited
Speaker 24: for her to wake up. One girl then strangled her
Speaker 24: with stereo wire, the other helping to smother her with
Speaker 24: a chemical smoked rag. The girls that even placed two
Speaker 24: shovels outside ready for a shallow grave under the house.
Speaker 1: Two sixteen year old girls, supposedly her friends, were convicted
Speaker 1: of Eliza's murder.
Speaker 20: Yeah, she was I think fifteen at the time.
Speaker 21: Yeah, it was horrible because my auntie actually, like she
Speaker 21: got the call that she was missing. So my annie
Speaker 21: went to the house where she was staying and the
Speaker 21: girls that didn't live.
Speaker 20: With her and they were like, oh, come in, come in.
Speaker 20: So she was in the house and they're like.
Speaker 21: Oh, we don't know where she is, and they went
Speaker 21: looking with her mum for her. Meanwhile, the whole time
Speaker 21: she was buried under.
Speaker 20: The house in the basement.
Speaker 21: So yeah, it was just so.
Speaker 2: So what are your thoughts on how this one's being treated?
Speaker 20: They think the police have a lot to answer for.
Speaker 20: And you know, if I, like, if I was the family, I.
Speaker 21: Would be so disappointed because there just seems to be
Speaker 21: neglect on the victim.
Speaker 20: And you know, I.
Speaker 21: Feel for the police that got there first and you know, said, nah,
Speaker 21: bus needs to be investigated, and then to be told no,
Speaker 21: we're not investigating that light, you'd be heartbreaking for them
Speaker 21: as well, because they.
Speaker 20: Could see from entering the seat, that something wasn't.
Speaker 2: Right, something wasn't right. We've heard that a lot during
Speaker 2: this podcast. Now, Brydon has repeatedly maintained he was not
Speaker 2: there when Amy died, and more recently he's denied ever
Speaker 2: saying they moved her body and burned their clothes.
Speaker 19: How could I do that when they've been sitting in
Speaker 19: an evidence box the last ten years.
Speaker 2: As you recall, Simmons and Price were asked to provide
Speaker 2: the clothes they were wearing that night, but they weren't
Speaker 2: cease by police at the time because the detectives decided
Speaker 2: Amy's death was a suicide, and as far as we're aware,
Speaker 2: Brydon never had to hand any in. Brydon also sent
Speaker 2: this message to the Facebook account set up by Amy's
Speaker 2: family called Amy's Voice.
Speaker 19: I've never protected anyone or ever will, but I do
Speaker 19: believe there's something not right with what happened. He was
Speaker 19: my friend. I miss her as well, and if she
Speaker 19: didn't do it to herself, then I want justice for
Speaker 19: her too.
Speaker 2: We've established a lot of conflicting information from him and
Speaker 2: the other key witnesses in this case. That's not uncommon,
Speaker 2: which is why everything needs to be put on the record,
Speaker 2: but nobody even checked out Brydon's story. And yet the
Speaker 2: cold case team was given a pat on the back
Speaker 2: for its investigation, which I suppose is good compared to
Speaker 2: major crimes, but still a long way from being thorough.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's not surprising that two months after contacting
Speaker 2: Crimestoppers with information, Chris still hadn't heard from anybody at
Speaker 2: WA Police. However, now they've dedicated a new team to
Speaker 2: investigate Amy's case, hopefully that will change. Anna Davy, Amy's aunt,
Speaker 2: told us she also hadn't heard from her WA Police
Speaker 2: liaison officer for months. It wasn't until she reached out
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago that she finally received to call.
Speaker 2: She's pleased they're finally reinvestigating Amy's case. That after their
Speaker 2: previous failures is understandably dubious.
Speaker 1: Yes, it is hard not to be a bit cynical
Speaker 1: given how much evidence was overlooked at the time. Like
Speaker 1: Chris says, it's all the little bits of information that
Speaker 1: helped get a result for her cousin, Eliza.
Speaker 24: Judge Dennis Reynolds said the two killers, who met when
Speaker 24: they were in grade two at Collie Primary School were
Speaker 24: equally responsible for the murder.
Speaker 1: But there's got to be a desire to solve Amy's
Speaker 1: case and go the distance, even if it means exposing
Speaker 1: further the sloppy, very sloppy police work at the start.
Speaker 1: Now that won't matter if they can ensure justice for
Speaker 1: Amy now.
Speaker 2: David Simmons, Gareth Price and Gosha Or Brighton are all
Speaker 2: before the courts on various matters, as well as assault
Speaker 2: of a public officer, which will be heard again at
Speaker 2: Perth Magistrate's Court at the end of October. Simmons faces
Speaker 2: three new charges at Armadale later this month, no authority
Speaker 2: to drive, use of an unlicensed vehicle on the road
Speaker 2: and to drive causing or permitting a vehicle with forge,
Speaker 2: replica or false plates to be driven. Price is due
Speaker 2: to appear at Narraging Courthouse on the seventeenth of September
Speaker 2: charged with no authority to drive, and Brighton is in
Speaker 2: Mandera Court two days later for two counts of reaching
Speaker 2: protective veil conditions, damaging property common assault, along with the
Speaker 2: two counts of breaching a family violence restraining order.
Speaker 1: We caught up with a woman who allegers Brydon breached
Speaker 1: a family violence restraining order. Now we won't go into
Speaker 1: this case as it's still before the courts, but she
Speaker 1: claims Brydon told her once that he couldn't get quote
Speaker 1: that image of Amy out of his mind unquote Like Chris,
Speaker 1: she had no idea what he was referring to and
Speaker 1: didn't seek clarification. But police should most certainly follow up
Speaker 1: with her and all of the others we've featured in
Speaker 1: this episode, which they stopped pursuing at the time because well,
Speaker 1: because it was all too hard, especially Brighton's mate Kaid
Speaker 1: and I agree Al, it's a massive hole in the
Speaker 1: investigation that they didn't get a statement from him to
Speaker 1: determine the veracity of Brighton's story. This sort of detail
Speaker 1: is critical because if it doesn't stack up like a
Speaker 1: house of cards, everything else comes tumbling down. I asked
Speaker 1: Charon dev Singh what he thought about the way Amy's
Speaker 1: case has and is continuing to be treated, including the
Speaker 1: introduction of the one million dollar reward.
Speaker 4: When those rewards were so belatedly offered. The thing that
Speaker 4: struck me about the media conference with the police minister
Speaker 4: were how many families, particularly Aboriginal families, were so desperately
Speaker 4: waiting for anything to happen, anything to change, and that
Speaker 4: this sort of token offer of money to try and
Speaker 4: advance the cases was really about the police again being
Speaker 4: really passive, you know, because the science around rewards is
Speaker 4: that they're not a powerful incentive that breaks core cases
Speaker 4: or special crime cases. That's the disappointing reality. It takes
Speaker 4: intense independent police work and intense independent often journalism and
Speaker 4: family scrutiny, and all of them things coming together to
Speaker 4: culminate in the breakthrough of a cold case.
Speaker 1: Smart work, clever work, smart.
Speaker 4: Work, clever work, determined work, work with integrity.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, in this case, David Simmons is on
Speaker 1: bail as we speak, over another serious charge, in fact,
Speaker 1: the second time he's been charged with assaulting a police officer. Yes,
Speaker 1: the first time he was convicted and served nine months
Speaker 1: in jail, but this time he seems to be granted
Speaker 1: bail with monotonous regularity.
Speaker 4: I've done a lot of work with men in prison,
Speaker 4: and I haven't seen a single one take responsibility for
Speaker 4: their violence because they've been sent to prison. They take
Speaker 4: responsibility for their violence. They end their violence in many
Speaker 4: other ways, but never because of being sent to prison,
Speaker 4: because prison teaches you that violence is normal, violence is correct.
Speaker 4: And so many women and so many children, so many
Speaker 4: survivors will tell you, you know, I was more afraid
Speaker 4: of him after he came out of prison. So this
Speaker 4: is not an issue of imprisoning tens of thousands of
Speaker 4: more Aboriginal people or non actual people or men. We
Speaker 4: can't solve violence by putting people in violent institutions and
Speaker 4: say you stay here until we let you out, you know. So,
Speaker 4: I think the structural changes that need to happen are
Speaker 4: far more profound than tweaking the criminal punishment system. I
Speaker 4: think this is a question of profound national leadership in
Speaker 4: the national emergency, and it's about funding and valuing the
Speaker 4: lives of women and children and everybody else impacted by
Speaker 4: family violence, domestic homicide, sexual abuse, that whole continuum. We
Speaker 4: fund what we value, and we must have leadership to
Speaker 4: fund the entire infrastructure of anti violence in this country,
Speaker 4: both prevention and response and escape and recovery and healing.
Speaker 2: Next episode. Beyond reasonable doubt, why hasn't Amy's case been
Speaker 2: referred to the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions.
Speaker 25: On the Minister for Police's website, Amy said is distant
Speaker 25: as a homicide, yet the Attorney General in the same
Speaker 25: government is reluctant to report it to the DPP. Now,
Speaker 25: how can you have those contradictions. This is not a
Speaker 25: speeding find. A young woman lost her life. The government
Speaker 25: ows that we as a community owe it not just
Speaker 25: to her daughters, not just to her family, not just
Speaker 25: to justice, but to Amy. We owe it to Amy
Speaker 25: to get to the mottom of this.
Speaker 2: And what will it take to have the full truth
Speaker 2: about Amy realized?
Speaker 23: If as a society we had systems in place to
Speaker 23: deal with domestic violence more generally to provide refuge to women,
Speaker 23: then we've been a lot better place than Maybe Amy
Speaker 23: wouldn't have been shot. Maybe things never would have escalated
Speaker 23: to the point of homicide, suicide or accident, whichever it was.
Speaker 6: So deation, we both know the nasty untiling.
Speaker 5: Me until.
Speaker 1: If you knew Amy and have information, any information about
Speaker 1: her death, we'd love to hear from you. Just email
Speaker 1: us at the Truth about Amy at seven dot com
Speaker 1: dot au. That's s e v E N. The Truth
Speaker 1: about Amy at seven dot com dot au, or visit
Speaker 1: our website sevenews dot com dot au. Forward slash the
Speaker 1: Truth about Amy. You can also send us an anonymous
Speaker 1: tip at www dot the Truth about Amy dot com.
Speaker 1: If you're on Facebook or Instagram, you can follow us
Speaker 1: to see photos and updates relevant to the case, but
Speaker 1: for legal reasons, unfortunately, you won't be able to make
Speaker 1: any comments. And remember, if you like what you're hearing,
Speaker 1: don't forget to subscribe. Please rate and review our series
Speaker 1: because it really helps new listeners to find us. Presenter
Speaker 1: and executive producer Alison Sandy, Presenter and investigative journalist Liam Bartlett,
Speaker 1: Sound design Mark Wright, Assistant producer Cassie Woodward, Graphics Jason Blandford,
Speaker 1: and special thanks to Tim Clark and Brian Seymour. This
Speaker 1: is a Seven News production.