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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Hello, how's your summer going. Are you on a road trip,

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Speaker 2: are you recovering from a big party in the sun,

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Speaker 2: or are you just taking a quiet walk. Whatever the

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Speaker 2: case is, you are listening to a special summer series

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Speaker 2: of the TDA podcast. Every day this week, so far

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Speaker 2: we've brought you an episode of The Mirror, and today

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Speaker 2: we're going to be throwing back to a special behind

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Speaker 2: the scenes chat I had with Billy fitz Simon's, host

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Speaker 2: and co producer of the series to give us a

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Speaker 2: bit of an insight into what it was like to

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Speaker 2: make The Mirror. Enjoy a bit of a different deep

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Speaker 2: dive for everyone. This morning, I'm joined by our editor

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Speaker 2: Billy Fitzsimon's and Billy I wanted to talk to you

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Speaker 2: about The Mirror. It's come out last week and it's

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Speaker 2: the number one news podcast in the country.

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Speaker 3: Julia Gillard's misogyny speak. I will not be lectured about

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Speaker 3: sexism and misogyny by this man. The moment Australia's first

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Speaker 3: and only female Prime minister said enough, not now, not ever,

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Speaker 3: when Gillard said to look in the mirror that day, mirror,

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Speaker 3: that's what he needs. It wasn't just one man she

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Speaker 3: was putting on notice, it.

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Speaker 2: Was all of us. The second episode drops today. What

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Speaker 2: has this podcast meant to you?

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Speaker 3: Well, for me, I think, you know, in the past year,

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Speaker 3: there has been so much discussion in Australia about women

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Speaker 3: in politics, and it feels like there's been this real

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Speaker 3: movement for women to be treated right in politics. And

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Speaker 3: it was actually a conversation that you and I had

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Speaker 3: Sam ten months ago or something now, and we're talking

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Speaker 3: about how it felt like there was this real kind

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Speaker 3: of reckoning and how it was coming up to the

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Speaker 3: ten year anniversary of Julia Gillard's misogyny speech, and you know,

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Speaker 3: reflecting back on how the media treated Julia Gillard, who

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Speaker 3: was our first and only female prime minister, and I

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Speaker 3: think that for our generation. I'm twenty five you're twenty seven,

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Speaker 3: twenty eight. I think that for our generation, you know,

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Speaker 3: if you weren't really politically in tune with the politics

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Speaker 3: of the day, you may have missed the context that

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Speaker 3: that speech happened in and what led up to that moment.

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Speaker 3: And I think for me, even in speaking with friends,

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Speaker 3: you know, speaking about how she was treated, it's quite

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Speaker 3: easy to forget, and I think that we shouldn't forget.

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Speaker 2: So you spend a lot of your looking at the

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Speaker 2: news of the day as it comes in and editing

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Speaker 2: the pieces so that they're ready to go for the

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Speaker 2: wide world. This is a very different task for you

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Speaker 2: as a journalist. You had to look back on an

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Speaker 2: event from ten years ago you were fifteen. Where did

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Speaker 2: you start in trying to work out how to approach

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Speaker 2: this topic.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think we didn't just want to start with

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Speaker 3: the misogyny speech. We wanted to start with the day

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Speaker 3: she became prime minister, and how at the time that

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Speaker 3: was actually quite a positive conversation. Australia was saying, you know,

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Speaker 3: we've got our first female prime minister. But then that

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Speaker 3: conversation very quickly turned and so that's where we started.

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Speaker 3: We started at what was the media commentary at the

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Speaker 3: time and in the two years that she was Prime

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Speaker 3: minister prior to the misogyny speech, how was she treated?

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Speaker 2: Were you surprised by her treatment?

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Speaker 3: For me, it doesn't matter how many times you go

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Speaker 3: back and listen to what was said about Julia Gillard,

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Speaker 3: you're always surprised. It just seems so inconceivable to me

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Speaker 3: that this is how she was treated. But for me,

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Speaker 3: I think the moment that really took my breath away

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Speaker 3: was it was actually after the misogyny speech and there

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Speaker 3: was a Liberal National Party fundraiser at I think it

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Speaker 3: was Sydney University and there was a menu and on

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Speaker 3: that it said something like Julia Gillard quayle, which was

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Speaker 3: described as small breast, thick thighs, and then something else

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Speaker 3: that I honestly don't even think is worth repeating. And

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Speaker 3: they say that that was just a joke and it

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Speaker 3: was never circulated, but the fact that that was ever

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Speaker 3: created is just so shocking to me. And this was

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Speaker 3: only ten years ago. It wasn't even that long ago,

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Speaker 3: and this is how we treated the first female prime minister.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's important for us to look at

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Speaker 3: that and look at it through a critical lens. You know,

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Speaker 3: that's how we learn and I hope that when we

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Speaker 3: do have another female prime minister, we will have learned

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Speaker 3: from that.

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Speaker 2: That's an interesting point. Do you think that if Julia

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Speaker 2: Gillard was Prime minister right now her treatment would be different?

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Speaker 3: I think it's so hard to say, and probably no

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Speaker 3: matter who the first female prime minister was, something like

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Speaker 3: this was going to happen. But I think an interesting

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Speaker 3: comparison is that a big thing about Julia Gillard is

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Speaker 3: that she wasn't married, and she was our first prime

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Speaker 3: minister who wasn't married, and there was so much commentary about,

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Speaker 3: you know, whether her partner would move into the lodge

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Speaker 3: with her because they weren't married. And today we have

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Speaker 3: Prime Minister Anthony Alberzi. He has a partner of two

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Speaker 3: years and they're not married. And I don't know about you, Sam,

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Speaker 3: but I haven't really heard that much commentary about it.

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Speaker 2: It definitely hasn't been part of the media conversation.

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Speaker 3: It's something that now we don't even blink at, really,

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Speaker 3: and so I think that that's a really interesting comparison

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Speaker 3: that we look at in the mirror.

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Speaker 2: So what are listener's listening to today? Is so last week.

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Speaker 2: If you go back and listen to episode one, it's

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Speaker 2: very much talking about the lead up to the misogyny speech.

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Speaker 2: What type of things are we looking at into episode?

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Speaker 3: So today we look at what happened after the misogyny speech,

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Speaker 3: because it was covered worldwide. We look back at it

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Speaker 3: now and we go it went viral. It was this

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Speaker 3: massive story and that's true. It was and it was

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Speaker 3: covered in the New York Times. You know, it was

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Speaker 3: covered in India. It was a massive story. But back

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Speaker 3: home in Australia, the press gallery was way more focused

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Speaker 3: on the political context of the time. And you'll hear

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Speaker 3: what that political context was in the in the episode.

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Speaker 3: And then moving past that, we look at how Julia

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Speaker 3: Gillard's prime minister ship ended, and not only that, but

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Speaker 3: in the period between the misogyny speech and then when

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Speaker 3: Julia Gillard lost the prime ministership, how there was even

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Speaker 3: more misogyny after the misogyny speech.

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Speaker 2: Would you run for prime minister?

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Speaker 3: Ah? Interesting question, I might deflect it that. I asked

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Speaker 3: Tanya Plivsek, who is much more likely to ever be

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Speaker 3: a prime minister, and she said that it didn't deter her.

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Speaker 4: Look, I think Julius. She definitely copped a lot of

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Speaker 4: abuse because she was a woman. I think the fact

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Speaker 4: that she has paved the way will make it easier

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Speaker 4: for the next woman because we have had the chances

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Speaker 4: of country to reflect on how much of the bad

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Speaker 4: behavior related to some people's inability to see a woman

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Speaker 4: in a position of power.

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Speaker 3: Is it fair to say that her experience hasn't deterred you, though?

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Speaker 4: I think it's I think it's really important that Julia's

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Speaker 4: experience doesn't deter any woman who's interested in a life

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Speaker 4: in politics from taking it on, because it is an

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Speaker 4: incredibly rewarding career. It's a it's an opportunity to do

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Speaker 4: good on a massive scale, and I wouldn't want anyone

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Speaker 4: to be deterred from that, and I don't think Julia

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Speaker 4: would either.

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Speaker 2: So any good journalist would take this opportunity to re

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Speaker 2: ask you that question, though, Billy, and as my editor,

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Speaker 2: you'd expect me to go again? Would you run for

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Speaker 2: prime minister?

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Speaker 3: I love my job too much.

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Speaker 2: I'm not leaving sad. I didn't realize we had a

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Speaker 2: politician as an editor. But Billy, where can people listen

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Speaker 2: to the mirror if they want to jump on it.

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Speaker 2: After this episode.

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Speaker 3: You can listen wherever you get your podcast. Just type

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Speaker 3: in the mirror and it should be there right in

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Speaker 3: this app exactly.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this episode of our special TDA

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Speaker 2: Summer series. We'll be back to normal programming on the

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Speaker 2: sixteenth of January, but if you want some more breaking

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Speaker 2: news in the meantime, open your phone and find us

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Speaker 2: on Instagram. It's currently where over four hundred and ten

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Speaker 2: thousand Australians get the news, and we are on even

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Speaker 2: though you're on holiday. H