1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the. 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 2: Time poor parent who just wants answers. 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: Now. Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson, founder of Happy 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: Families dot com dot you, and dad to six daughters, 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: one who has married, moved out, and is making me 6 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: a grandpa in a couple of months. Time. Holy smokes, 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: A couple of those words came out of my mouth. 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: Listened to you, Christine late in the background, phone off. 9 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 2: But I'm so excited. Every introduction you give us a 10 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: little gift, and that is just such good news. Juston congratulations. 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're pretty excited, and in fact, as a as 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: a dad who said to his daughter, I don't want 13 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: to be a grandpa until I'm at least fifty. But 14 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: it's up to you. Oh, Like, I can't tell you. 15 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: I can't tell you what to do, and I made 16 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: that very clear. But I just want to said like, 17 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: I want to be at a point where I can 18 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: be a present influence in their lives. I want to 19 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: be the grandpa who by the time they're five years 20 00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: old and heading off to school, I want to be 21 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: able to meet him at school. I want to be 22 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: able to ride my bike to school with my grandkids 23 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: and give the parents break. I want to be that 24 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: involved grandparent. And anyway, my daughter didn't wait till I 25 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: was fifty. 26 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 3: It's still a but you will be the kind of 27 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 3: grandparent that the parent raves about. 28 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: Oh jeah, hope you will be. Yeah, we're going to 29 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: do our best. So anyway, we've got that daughter married 30 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: and expecting a baby. She's been married for like nearly 31 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: four years now. For crying out loud, that does make 32 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: me feel like I've I still feel like I'm like 33 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: twenty eight thirty four or something like that. But our 34 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: second daughter is in the UK. She's been there for 35 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: a couple of months now and is just doing such 36 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: a great job, living away from home and living through 37 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: the coldest temperatures she has ever experienced in her life. 38 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: It's just been wonderful to hear how she's going over there. 39 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: Got another kid at UNI, and then we've got three 40 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: kids still at school. That's us. Christine Layton is WA 41 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: and Perth Afternoon's presenter on ABC Radio, and why don't 42 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: tell us about your kids, Christine, because you've got I'm 43 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: going to say you got two. I mean technically not quite, 44 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: but let's go with that anyway. 45 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, look one is technically part of the interview. Right now, 46 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 3: I am expecting a son, which is rather exciting because 47 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 3: I already have a four year old daughter. And oh look, 48 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 3: Bonnie is just a delight. 49 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 2: She's got blonde. 50 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 3: Hair and green eyes and a blunt fringe like me, 51 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 3: and I didn't mean to give us the same haircut, 52 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 3: but I did. And she's kind hearted and patient, and 53 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 3: she's the kind of kid who will see someone crying 54 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 3: in the playground and she'll go over and check that 55 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 3: they're okay. She won't wrap her arms around them without 56 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 3: making sure it's okay first. 57 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 2: She'll certainly look after others. 58 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 3: And I think that's because her father is a mental 59 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 3: health nurse, so she's very caring. 60 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 2: I'm so damn proud of her. And she's cheeky as justin. 61 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,119 Speaker 3: I'll tell you what I didn't realize four year olds 62 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 3: could give you sass. You know what she said to 63 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 3: me the other morning. She's got two dollars right, because 64 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 3: she knows she's got a little brother coming. She's got 65 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 3: JJ from Coco Melon, you know, the four year old's influencer, really, 66 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 3: and then she's got an the doll, which is called Lisa, 67 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 3: and she was holding them both in her arms, feeding 68 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 3: them a bottle. When she turns to me and says, see, mom, 69 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 3: looking after a baby is easy. And I was like, oh, yeah, 70 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 3: tell me more about that at about six months time, Bonnie. 71 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. And if I was 72 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: a novelist writing a description of somebody, I would use 73 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: the term blunt fringe. I think that's just I love 74 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: the way you painted that picture with your words. That 75 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: was just fabulous. 76 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 2: Oh it's accurate. 77 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 3: Yesterday we talked about helping your child discover what makes 78 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 3: them special, and you know, who they are depends on 79 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 3: who they hang out with. 80 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 2: So can I ask you justin what do you do 81 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 2: when your child's friend is a bad influence. I mean, 82 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: this can happen at any age, right, Yeah, this. 83 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: Is a really, really difficult thing for parents to deal with. 84 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: I remember watching this happen in my family growing up. 85 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: I'm one of six myself, I'm the eldest of six. 86 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: I have me, then twin sisters, then my brother, than 87 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: twin sisters again, and I remember one of my sisters 88 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: had a friend who will remain nameless even today, thirty 89 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: forty years down the track, but she had this friend 90 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: that my mum despised. She just was convinced that she 91 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: was a bad influence. She wasn't the kind of kid 92 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: that my mum wanted my sister hanging around with, and 93 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: she would consistently pester my sister to stop hanging around 94 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: with this kid. Now, this story is fascinating to me 95 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: because of a friend and colleague by the name of 96 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: Christopher Niemick. He's at the University of Rochester, published a 97 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: really smart academic paper back in two thousand and nine 98 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: that asked this exact question. So I'm going to lean 99 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: heavily on Bartzoynen's Martin van stein Kista and Christopher Neemick 100 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: and their two thousand and nine publication that was called, 101 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: and I quote, should parental prohibition of adolescence peer relationships 102 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: be per inhibited? And the idea here is so in 103 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: a nutshell, what they've done is we've got really inconsistent 104 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: associations between parental prohibition of peer relationships and kids going 105 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: and hanging out with deviant peers, kids that are engaging 106 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 1: in challenging behavior. And now this is oriented towards adolescence. 107 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: But I think it's safe to generalize this into kids 108 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: who are probably in their twins, and once we go 109 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: below that developmentally there are probably too many changes. But 110 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: you don't see too many parents forbidding their five year 111 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: olds from a hanging out. I mean, five year olds 112 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: tend to be pretty innocent and pretty easy to get 113 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: along with for the most part. It's once they get 114 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: up to like eight, nine, ten, and then into the teens. 115 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: And so what they did was this really really smart 116 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: little study, cross sectional study, which basically mean is we 117 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: just look at everything that's happening right now across the population, 118 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: and they examine parents' styles of prohibition. In other words, 119 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: in what way are parents saying, I don't want your 120 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: hanging out with those kids? And what they looked at 121 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: was what's the what's the parent style essentially, and how 122 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: is that related to what the kids choose to do. 123 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: Are they hanging out with these deviant peers or not? 124 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: And they had a hypothesis, And it's worth exploring the 125 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: hypothesis because it's consistent with something that I'm talking about 126 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: all the time. In my upcoming book, I May One 127 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: the Parenting Revolution, I go into this. In fact, I 128 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: used this study in the book. So there's what we 129 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: might call a need supportive or autonomy supportive style, which 130 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: is essentially saying, you know what, kiddo, I'm going to 131 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: share some ideas with you. I'm going to listen carefully 132 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: to you, and we're going to work out an approach 133 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: here with your friends. It's going to work for everyone. 134 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: Or we might have more of a controlling style. I 135 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 1: don't want you to do it. They're bad kids, stay away. 136 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: And their hypothesis was essentially, if you've got an autonomy 137 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: supportive style, you're going to see your kids making choices 138 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: that are safer and healthier. They're going to be less 139 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: likely to associate with those deviant peers. Whereas if you're 140 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: a controlling parent, guess what's going to happen. The kids 141 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: are going to the kids are going to go off 142 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 1: and say, I don't care what you saying, then do 143 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: whatever they want. So they had two hundred and thirty 144 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: four adolescent Belgians, average age was like sixteen years of age, 145 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: and what they looked at was what's going on the 146 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: parenting style and what of the kids doing, And the 147 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: research showed that their hypothesis was supported. Specifically, the more 148 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: the parents opposed their adolescent child's what's the word affiliation 149 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: with those friends. The more they made those friends forbidden 150 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: fruit the more because those friends were involved in challenging behavior. 151 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: The more that those kids were hanging out with those friends, 152 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: the more they were like, I don't care what you say. 153 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: Whereas the more parents sat down and said, hey, let's 154 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: talk about this, let's work this out. It didn't completely 155 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: stop the kids for hanging out with DVM pears, but 156 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: it reduced the influence of those peers, and it also 157 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: reduced the likelihood that they were going to spend a 158 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: lot of time with them. 159 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 3: See that's clever because as a teenager, when mum said 160 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 3: I couldn't hang out with someone or quite simply kept 161 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 3: me home. 162 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 2: It made me want to go more. And it made 163 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 2: me want to. 164 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 3: Defy her and lie to her and go to the 165 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 3: galleria and watch a movie anyway, because in my mind, yeah, 166 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: I just wanted to sit in a cinema for three 167 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 3: hours with my friends, probably talking, probably eating a lot 168 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 3: of popcorn. 169 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 2: I couldn't see the big deal. 170 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 3: And so yeah, the more she said no, the more 171 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 3: I did it anyway. 172 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: And I'm not proud of it. I didn't understand her 173 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 2: reasoning as to why she was keeping me home. 174 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 3: And you know, in hindsight, my mum was agrophobic and 175 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 3: I think she had a few things happened so she 176 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 3: was worried about my safety and fair enough. So I'm 177 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 3: determined to get that balance right. But it must be 178 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 3: a really hard thing. You know, when you've got a 179 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 3: parent who can see from the fiftieth rung of the 180 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 3: lad as opposed to the tenth throng of the ladder, 181 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 3: I can see that. You know, a child might be 182 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 3: funny and fine in class, but is probably going to 183 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 3: do weed behind the shed at school. 184 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 2: How do you show your kids what they can't see? 185 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: And I guess the other thing is we don't You 186 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: mentioned getting the balance right and what you were saying, 187 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: we don't want to. Just being supportive of our kids' 188 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: autonomy and their needs doesn't mean that we say, oh, well, 189 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: you hang out with who you hang out with, and 190 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: that's up to you. Like, it's not an abrogation of 191 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: parental responsibility. It is actually a balance, and that is 192 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: we sit down and say, I care about you so much, 193 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: and I'm seeing some things and I kind of feel 194 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: like we need to have a chat about them because 195 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: I'm nervous. I'm worried. Here's what I'm worried about. So 196 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: we really do need to have conversations. And that's what 197 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 1: these researchers found Niemika and Solunen's and vanstink As do. 198 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 1: They found that parents did need to sit down and 199 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: have these conversations. It's not just go for your life. 200 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: You figure it out your life. That's not how it works. 201 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 3: So when you have those conversations, I mean, obviously, I 202 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 3: think kids are far more aware of what can happen 203 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 3: in a worst case scenario. You know, when you're at 204 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 3: the cinema, for example, like kids I feel these days 205 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 3: because of the twenty four hour news cycle and social media, 206 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 3: they know that they could be abducted, or they know 207 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 3: that somebody could put something in their drink, even at 208 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 3: a cinema. You know, they know that these people exist. 209 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 3: But when you sit down and have that conversation with them, 210 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 3: do you use those worst case scenario examples or not? 211 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: No, As general rule, the answer is to stay away 212 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: from the worst case scenarios. Let's get with something a 213 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: little bit more benign, rather than a drink spiking or 214 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: an abduction because the drink spiking kind of thing, that's 215 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: more likely to happen once they're at a club, yeah, 216 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: once they're adults or certainly in their very late teens, 217 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: and abduction, statistically speaking, the likelihood of that happening is 218 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: so infinitesimally small. I mean, it still happens, and I 219 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: don't want to pretend it happened, But let's look at 220 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: the DEVMP. 221 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 3: These are the examples that my mum used, Yes is 222 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 3: what I'm saying, and so it scared the. 223 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 2: Living daylights out of me. 224 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 3: It did make me very much afraid of the world. 225 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 3: By the time I left high school and went to UNI. 226 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 3: I had to recalibrate to discover what was right and wrong, 227 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 3: and did a lot of work with the psychologists. But 228 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 3: I mean, obviously she just to explain. My mum was 229 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 3: the daughter of a prisoner of war from the Burma 230 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 3: Railway who had untreated PTSD. So it was intergenerational trauma 231 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 3: and anxiety that was passed down through her to me, 232 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 3: and I've had to work through it. So how can 233 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 3: you how can you explain to your child that bad 234 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 3: things can happen without going that far? 235 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: Okay, there are two answers to this, and it depends 236 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: on the age of your child. So if you've got 237 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: young children, if we look at the history of raising kids, 238 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: parents from the very beginning have told their kids not 239 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: to go near the water because the sea monster will 240 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: swallow them, or not to go into the woods because 241 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: the bears will eat them, or generally like really scary stories. 242 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: The Eskimos in particular are known for having, or the 243 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: Inuit are particularly known for having really scary stories for 244 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: their kids about the sea and the water. They terrify 245 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: their little kids. And while I don't love the idea 246 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: of terrifying kids, what I think is worth highlighting here 247 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: is that there is wisdom in this, because your little 248 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: kids will be scared and therefore they will listen. They 249 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: believe you. But as kids start to get older and 250 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: we start to have conversations with them about not hanging 251 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: out down at the park on Friday night with the 252 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: friends and getting drunk because the alcohol you're going to 253 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: get king hit, or you're going to get someone pregnantor 254 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: you're going to get pregnant, or bad things happen. What 255 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: our kids start to do as they get older is 256 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 1: they're like you know what. I know what everyone's been 257 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: doing on Friday night for the last couple of months, 258 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: because they've been telling me all about it, and I 259 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 1: want to go down. And no one's been king hit 260 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: and no one's pregnant, and everyone's having a really good time, 261 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,719 Speaker 1: and we've got the video footage to show how much 262 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: fun they're having. And so if we use these extreme examples, 263 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: if we use these examples designed to scare kids, we 264 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: lose credibility in their eyes, we lose we lose influence. 265 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: Subsequent to the lack of credibility, and the conversation can 266 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: go nowhere. They actually stop trusting us because they think 267 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: that we're trying to stop them having fun, yes, instead. 268 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 2: Of that is what happened. 269 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 3: Definitely, yes, And Mum and I had to rebuild after that. 270 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 3: And you are right, Oh, it's oh gosh, it's so true. 271 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 3: So is it just a matter of being real, just 272 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 3: a matter of being real with them? 273 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: It kind of is. Let's say I've got a daughter 274 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: who gets drunk at a party on Saturday night, and 275 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: when I see her on Sunday morning, I can tell 276 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: because I'm in parents. We can tell this stuff. You 277 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: can tell by looking at a kid whether they've had 278 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: a big night the night before, and you can usually 279 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: smell it as well. Right, And so if I walk 280 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: up to my son or my daughter, I mean, I'm 281 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: speaking hypothetically here, but if I walk up to my 282 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: kiddo and I can tell that they've had a big 283 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,719 Speaker 1: night and they've not been honest with me about what's 284 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: going on, and they've been hanging out with deviant peers, 285 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: I'm probably going to say you had a big night 286 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 1: last night. I can tell that you've been drinking alcohol. 287 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: And my child may want to be defensive, and my 288 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,319 Speaker 1: job as a parents say hey, I'm not going to 289 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: get you in trouble for it, but I think we 290 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: should have a chat because if you think that you're 291 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: old enough to be doing this, and if you are 292 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: going to do it in spite of my request that 293 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: you not do it until you're at least eighteen, I 294 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: need to make sure that you're safe and I need 295 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: to make sure that you're healthy. And then this is 296 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: so hard for so many parents to do, but to 297 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: sit down with that child and say, how did it 298 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: feel when you got drunk, or how did it feel 299 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: when you had that intimate moment with that person. What 300 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: was it like for you? What was good, what was bad? 301 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: How can we help you to make safe, healthy decisions 302 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: around this behavior moving forward? Now, this especially for a 303 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: family or a parent who with this clashes with their values, 304 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: It's almost impossible to do because you're going you're stomping 305 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: all over everything that I hold dear, You're pushing back 306 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: against the things that I've taught you. I feel like 307 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: you're betraying my trust inside as a parent, you are 308 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: in such a tough situation. But if you unload all 309 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: of that on them, you will lose them. What you 310 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: need to do instead to say, all right, when you're 311 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: with these friends, what are you noticing? How does it 312 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: feel to be around them? Do you feel like you're honored? 313 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: Do you feel like you're being pressured? Do you feel 314 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: like they listen to you? Do you feel like you 315 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: have a voice? And so what we're trying to do 316 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: is work out how does it feel, where should we 317 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: go from here? And how can we support you and 318 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: how can we turn this into a healthy, safe environment 319 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: for you. Those conversations are what we call autonomy supportive conversations, 320 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: and those are the conversations that will lead kids into 321 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: much better, safer, healthier decision making processes and systems. 322 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Justin, can I go to the movie after this? Well, no, 323 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 2: that's let's have to talk, Christine. 324 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: Who are you going with and what are you going 325 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: to be seeing? Let's let's make sure that you make 326 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: the safe, held the decisions. You know, that's the conversation. 327 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: I'm so glad you asked. 328 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I just want to go on my own at 329 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 3: this point, myself said the very pregnant mother. And I'm 330 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 3: sure that those of you out there listening understand. Another 331 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 3: great session, Justin. This has been so much fun. Honestly, 332 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 3: thank you for having me. 333 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: Well, thank you for joining me this week. It's been 334 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: it's been a real delight. I hope that our Happy 335 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: Families listeners have enjoyed our conversations. It'd be great to 336 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: do it again sometime in the meantime. I look forward 337 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: to joining you again soon. For our Perth listeners, you 338 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: can hear us every second Monday afternoon at about oh 339 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: help me with the time. What is it like? 340 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 2: Tenot past time? Two o five Happy Families. 341 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: And we talk about all the good stuff like we've 342 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: talked just now about these things. Christine, Thanks for joining. 343 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 2: Me, thank you for having me on Justin See you. 344 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: Everyone, and the Happy Families podcast will be back next 345 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: week with Kylie again because school holidays I think are 346 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: over in Queensland. I hope I've got my dates right. 347 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rulin from 348 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Create. Bruce is our executive producer and for 349 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: more information about making your family happier, you'll find it 350 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: at Happy families dot com dot A. You have a 351 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: great weekend.