1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Channel nine's US correspondent Jonathan Kurzly, is joining us now. 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 2: Good morning, Jonathan, Jonathan, Welcome Crazy Lusia. 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 3: Good morning to you both, and good morning to everybody 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 3: listening across WOAR. 5 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: So the situation in Israel on the weekend. Look, Jonathan, 6 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: although in recent weeks there had been a resumption and 7 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: this is probably even more a thing in hindsight, there'd 8 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: been a resumption of the protest along the border fence 9 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: with Gaza, for all intents and purposes, this attack on 10 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: Israel by Hamas came as a total surprise. 11 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think this is what's raising to be 12 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 3: questions now both here in the United States and in 13 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 3: Israel is why did the intelligence agencies, which are supposed 14 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 3: to be between the two countries the best in the world, 15 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 3: on any sort of morning that Hamas may have launched 16 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 3: this attack on Saturday Israeli time. We've actually learned a 17 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 3: little bit of new detail over here in the last 18 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 3: hour or so. Israel had long been concerned Iran. They 19 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 3: have actually had a role to play in me So 20 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 3: now it is being reported here that Ranium security officials 21 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 3: who are actually helping him ask plan this attack and 22 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 3: have been doing so for weeks. That raises even more 23 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 3: questions about the intelligence gaps in the system that essentially 24 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 3: allowed herm asked to get into the border, across the 25 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 3: gate and carry out these deadly attacks. And the attacks 26 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 3: we are seeing in Israel are continuing right now. The 27 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 3: city of Ashkaloon, which is just south of Tel Aviv, 28 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 3: is being bombarded by what AMAS says is a major 29 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 3: missile strike. So this assault, this conflict is showing no 30 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 3: sign of letting up, and worryingly to you guys, the 31 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 3: Israelis have said that if they are attacked, they are 32 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 3: going to respond. So long as you have this situation 33 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 3: as it stands, with both sides essentially saying they will 34 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 3: continue to attack each other, then there is a very, 35 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 3: really a hard chance to see how this is resolved 36 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 3: anytime soon and how there's inside of peace on the 37 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,559 Speaker 3: horizon in the next few weeks. 38 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, we're hearing reports of over seven hundred deaths and 39 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 4: there'll be thousands of injured. Have you heard any more 40 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 4: updates on those numbers, Jonathan, Yeah, Well, the seven hundred kilore. 41 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 3: In Israel since the Hamas attack. We've also heard detail 42 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 3: the two hundred and sixty bodies were actually found at 43 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 3: the music festival in the south of Israel where Anas 44 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 3: had actually come in. So that is very very grim detail. 45 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 3: But as I say, it is likely that this death 46 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 3: toll is going to rise. The real concern doing the 47 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 3: officials here in the United States in Washington, DC, is 48 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 3: that this attack, this violence could spread beyond Gaza City, 49 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 3: beyond Garsa itself, beyond Israel into places like Lebanon, Syria. 50 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 3: Could this be a boiling pot for Middle East violence 51 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 3: to flare up once again? And that is the great 52 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 3: concern there. How do they contain and how do they 53 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 3: prevent significant loss of life? 54 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: All the more reason why it would seem on the 55 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: surface that there is maybe a bigger picture here than 56 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: simply a HMAS attack. 57 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 2: Bad as that is, it certainly does. 58 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: Seem awfully, awfully orchestrated for them, doesn't it. 59 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, this is one of the reasons why America 60 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 3: has been so closely into this. First of all, why 61 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 3: was her mass able to carry out such an attack 62 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 3: and what is its reason for doing so? Now? In US, 63 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 3: Saudi Arabia and Israel have been working on a coordinated 64 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 3: peace plan. Now it seems as though, according to the 65 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 3: US officials. Part of her master's reason they have been 66 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 3: to try to break that up that for her mask, 67 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 3: that sort of triangle of treaty or triangle of peace 68 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 3: would not have been good for them, so they may 69 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 3: well have been trying to break it up. But really 70 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,119 Speaker 3: what we have now is this situation where a week 71 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 3: ago American officials were saying that the Middle East has 72 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 3: been incredibly quiet for the first time in decades, and 73 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 3: now they've been caught off guard by this. And what 74 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 3: you're going to see now is this will last week. 75 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 3: America is now sitting in navy ships, spider jets, most 76 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 3: are and closer to Israel, and this tension is only 77 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 3: going to continue to build. And when that tension rises, 78 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 3: so too will be attacks between her masks and Israel. Yeah. 79 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: One of the really disturbing things, of course, that we 80 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: heard on the weekend was this orchestrated series of hostage situations. 81 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: Hostage is being taken. Do you have any more information 82 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: on that, Jonathan. 83 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, what we're working on right now is looking 84 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 3: at exactly how many people have been taken, exactly who 85 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 3: have been taken, because what we saw were people being 86 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 3: pulled off the streets We know that in one instant, 87 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 3: a Holocaust survivor in a wheelchair was actually taken away 88 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 3: as a hostage. We've seen the awful images of people 89 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 3: being taken away in trucks and taken into Gaza. The 90 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 3: idea being that hamas essentially trying to go to Israel 91 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 3: to come in, come in and get your people, come 92 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 3: and get them, and then that would only estimate the 93 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 3: situation even further. We know that there's Americans among the fatalities. 94 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 3: We have as Americans among the hostages. Australian officials from 95 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 3: Prime Minister Foreign Minister have been asked about this issue 96 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 3: as well. From an Australian perspective, how many Australians are 97 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 3: have been either injured, killed or taken hostage. No sign 98 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 3: yet that Australians have been injured or killed at this stage. 99 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 3: But obviously this is an unfolding situation and people are 100 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 3: going to be following the developments very very closely. 101 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: Obviously people have been advised not to go. That's a 102 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 1: pretty big given in terms of people there. Do you 103 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: know from where you are? Obviously you're not here in 104 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: Australia dealing with the EMBZ here, but do you know 105 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: what the deal is with getting people back? Is that 106 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: going to be a problem. Is that going to be 107 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,799 Speaker 1: straightforward getting people out? 108 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 3: Well, it's not going to. No, it's not going to 109 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 3: be easy, and it's not going to be easy for 110 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 3: the number one reason that the borders have largely they closed. 111 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 3: They reopen closing in and around Israel, which makes it 112 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 3: makes it even harder to get in from places like 113 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 3: Amman in Jordan or even Lebanon. The borders have been 114 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 3: closed down, and we've seen these attacks coming in from 115 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 3: from Lebanon by bai Hamas, and that's been increasingly causing 116 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 3: concern around the security of trying to get people out. 117 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 3: I know, having spoken with US officials today and seeing 118 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 3: some of the reports that are coming out of here, 119 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 3: is that there is a possibility de Pentagon nature and 120 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 3: actually use its navy ships to evacuate American citizens. Obviously, 121 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 3: that is a very disy situation and one that would 122 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 3: need to be fought for it very very carefully. So 123 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 3: the Americans at least in giving some thought to try 124 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 3: how they can evacuate their citizens from Israel. The navy 125 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 3: ships is one idea that's been floated. Nothing's been locked 126 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 3: in nothing's concrete. But obviously this is going to become 127 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 3: a humanitarian situation as any war, any conflict does. But 128 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 3: the real concern now is that this violence will escalate 129 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 3: and then spread beyond Israel and government. 130 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: For anyone thinking, you know, I'm not really too sure 131 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: what her mass is. 132 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 2: There a Palestinian militant group, aren't they? 133 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 3: Essentially there are militant groups. They've been described by Western 134 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 3: governments as a terrorist organization. Now, the reason why the 135 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 3: Iran link in this instance is so important is because 136 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 3: for years Iran has been backing her mass with funding, 137 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 3: with military with expertise, and guiding it in its attacks 138 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 3: on Israel. So there has been this background link between 139 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 3: Iran and this militant group where it's been able to 140 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 3: secure its weapons to carry out this attack. And her 141 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 3: mass in Israel have long had tensions. If you're talking 142 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 3: about disputes in the Middle East, you're talking about in 143 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 3: this instance, one hundred years, and then you can go 144 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 3: back centuries to look at how the conflicts have panned 145 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 3: out in the Middle East. It's been a region that 146 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 3: has been very, very difficult to find peace. But as 147 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 3: far as Iran and her Mass is concerned, that has 148 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 3: been where the chess pieces have been lying, and the 149 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 3: concern being that Iran is a state, as a country, 150 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 3: as a government, is funding a terrorist organization to carry 151 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 3: out an attack on a country like Israel. That has 152 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 3: been the concern from Australian officials, from American officials, from 153 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 3: Israeli officials. Israel and Iran don't like each other. They 154 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 3: haven't got a long for years to that point exactly. 155 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 5: It's hard a lot at the end of the tunnels. 156 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 2: It is hard to say a lot of the end, especially. 157 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 4: To see the hostages situation and the some of those 158 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 4: stories about bodies being paraded. 159 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 5: And the rest of it. That's just a powder cake, 160 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 5: isn't it. 161 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: Thank you very very much for joining us this morning 162 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: and maybe we'll chat to you on this again. 163 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 5: Thanks for your time mate, always just talk you go bye.