WEBVTT - VIC VERBST & JENNA OWEN - NUGGETIS DEAD - STAN AUSTRALIA 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:01.680 It's in the news today, but it was actually on 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:05.120 TV Reload the podcast last week. They're right. Hey, guys, 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:07.200 welcome back to TV Reload. I want to thank you 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:10.400 for clicking and downloading on today's episode with Vic Zerbst 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:13.640 and Jenna Owen, who are the content creators and stars 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:16.680 of Nugget Is Dead, a Christmas Story which drops ONSTAN 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:21.040 Australia today. I have always found the Christmas movie phenomenon 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:24.680 to be quite unbelievable in its popularity. I have friends 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:27.920 who live for the holiday season just to watch endless 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:30.840 amounts of new Christmas movies that drop across all of 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.680 the streaming platforms, and I usually avoid them like the plague. 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.519 But this year I was excited to join the craze 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:40.640 because of the people behind Nugget, who are whip smart, 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:44.080 hilarious and have their finger on the pulse of social commentary. 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.120 It's almost the anti Christmas movie in a way, and 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.479 I have to say I'm here for it. Vick and 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:52.760 Jenna talk about their own experiences with Christmas and why 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:56.160 they think all families at Christmas are a hotspot for 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.880 hilarious content. We unpack some of the film's influences and 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.240 find out if Muriel's wedding was something that made an 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.200 impact on the writing of Golden Nugget. I will get 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.920 to find out if this story is based on something 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.119 that actually happened to either Vik or Jenner. You guys 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:13.880 are going to get so much out of this chat 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:16.800 in terms of how we view our own family, why 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:20.120 Christmas makes us a bit nutty, and why this film 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:23.840 is the perfect pre Christmas homework. There is actually so 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.760 much to talk about, with so many inside revelations on 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.640 how this film was made. So sit back and relax 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:32.640 as we unpack the wonderful world of the stand original 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:37.039 film Nugget Is Dead a Christmas Story. So excited to 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.360 talk to both of you because I was doing this 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:43.280 show with like a digital breakfast show, very COVID time, 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.200 like it was very bizarre, but we were always mining 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.880 for like good content and funny content, and anyway, we 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:51.720 came across all of your work and we were just 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.880 sitting my co host Alana and I and watch your stuff. 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:58.360 So when this opportunity came across my desk to talk 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:00.640 to you both about this film, I was like, Oh, 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:02.560 this is so exciting, that's. 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:06.280 So nice, that's so nice. Thank you so much. 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.079 We're so proud of that, that your are, that body 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.720 of work. It was not an easy and easy time. 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:15.240 I don't know why we, of all people were allowed 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:16.440 to keep making things. 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:18.240 It was so good because you know, I grew up 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:22.800 with a family of our Sunday lunches, was always sitting 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.359 around talking about politics. But at the same time we 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:27.920 grew up watching sort of fast forward in the comedy company. 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:31.200 They were doing all of that. They were mocking politics 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:34.120 at the time, which when I stumbled across your work, 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:37.600 I was like, oh, they are doing something very similar 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:39.440 to what I grew up enjoying. 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.880 Oh that's not dreams, that's saying exactly the people and 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:43.239 the show. 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:47.799 So we relied. Thank you, Thank you so much. 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.280 You know, I thought that this film is also a 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:54.240 very interesting subject matter for you because social politics and 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:57.920 politics itself is actually very close to family politics, and 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.160 that is really the essence of what we're talking about 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:00.720 here today. 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:02.240 Yes, that's exactly right. 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.399 Basically, this film it's you know, we had this big 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.760 era at the feed, you know, doing our political satire, 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.520 and then this film is kind of definitely like a 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:12.520 departure from that. 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:14.280 Emotionally a little bit. 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:16.840 It was something that we kind of just wanted to 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:20.440 be able to have an experience that was warm and 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.799 beautiful and made us feel vulnerable, made us feel like, 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.040 you know, happy, was something that we could watch with 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:30.240 our parents, who would also leave that movie feeling. 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:31.280 Lighter instead of heavier. 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:34.720 So that's kind of like how we felt about the 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:38.080 writing process, but also like being on set with you know, 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:41.000 all the most amazing Australian actress you've ever seen in 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:41.640 your life. 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.040 And I think for us it was moving from kind 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:46.760 of a political satire space into like social satire or 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.120 social commentary. It's like, yeah, character based comedy and all 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:52.120 those same insights that you have into the way. 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:52.600 That the world works. 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:55.320 Like, I mean, everything is inherently political, but it's just 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.920 leaning into the human side of all the things that 0:03:58.960 --> 0:03:59.480 affect us. 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.400 Yeah, I think that's what our life is like. You know, 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.040 there's so much silliness that goes on and some of 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.200 the most awkward moments are the funniest things that happened 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:08.520 to us. 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:12.040 Yeah, Like my family makes me laugh more than anyone else, 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:16.599 Like the specific things things that they say after a while, 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:18.279 I mean it is in the movie. 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:20.279 But I you know, I always laugh. 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:24.560 My parents just have no concept of anything secondhand. Like 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:27.360 they are always saying that my clothes look like they've 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.160 come out of a bin, or like that my furniture, 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:32.559 Like I remember when they first saw my share house 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:34.240 and I was like, you know, trying to do that 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:37.120 mid century thing that's actually you know, a reference definitely 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:37.679 in the movie. 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:40.680 I remember my dad was like, it wasn't good then 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:42.280 and it's not good now. 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.440 And I was just like, so funny to talk about 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.359 like the things that I consider aesthetic or important and 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:50.919 those cultural differences. 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:52.680 And that's also what this movie is about. 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:55.560 The journey for both Vick and I a feeling more 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.000 resentment over those differences. I definitely when I first moved 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:00.880 to city and I was trying to shed that kind 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.119 of skin. And then I'd come home and I thought 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.359 that some of my friends were having these like very cultured, elegant, worldly, 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:10.400 amazing Christmases where you know, everything was mid centrally modern 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.200 and it was all you know, the curated from model 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.719 ANGI you know, cookbook kind of Christmas. 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.920 That thing. I used to feel really resentful when you know, my. 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:20.760 Parents would make that comments about the fact I was 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:22.719 wearing a sack or that you know, I smelled like 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:23.760 Grandma's closet. 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:27.479 But I think now I just find it's so funny. 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:31.120 And I also see like how they're right in a 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.560 lot of ways, not necessarily about aesthetics. 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:35.800 I would never say my family is right about aesthetics, but. 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:38.159 I would say that their heart and their values and 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:41.760 their ability to read people is quite accurate. And I 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:43.640 think that was something that I was lacking when I 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:45.599 first moved to Sydney. I mean, you see it in 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:47.479 the film with the way in which Steph is like 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.560 and you've had a similar experience with these like upper 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:51.760 echelons of society. 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.840 You're very wooed by them. Actually you come up. 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:56.280 On a pedestal and then you go back home and 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:58.560 you just go I wish my family was like that, 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.640 or I wish that I would more comfortable in these spaces. 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:03.280 With these really you know, smart, worldly people. 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:07.000 But it's never really your authentic self, And it's just 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:09.920 accepting and learning to love kind of where you come 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.200 from and seeing the value in that that makes you 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.200 an authentic person. And it very much is about like 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.880 how to turn up authentically in a space. Because the 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:21.680 character's staff is chronic people please are always trying to 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:22.400 say the right thing. 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:23.520 And I think that. 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:26.120 She has got so much resentment towards her family for 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:27.960 having to play a certain role, and she doesn't want 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.520 to play that role anymore. And believe it or not, 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:33.320 like sometimes really a difficult events or like coming together 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:35.560 over the sickness of a dog, makes you actually have 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:37.760 to turn up authentically because you don't have the time 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:40.240 and energy to put on airs and graces. In the 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.480 process of being authentic and speaking truth, like being honest 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.120 about where you are and not lying to your family 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.360 anymore about you know, what your life is and whether 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.839 your boyfriend's borrowed money from you or not. It actually 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:53.640 forces you to come to terms with like being authentic, 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:56.560 because real connection can only come from that authenticity, and 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.359 connection based on a fraudulent part of yourself is never 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:01.200 going to feel as good as what it means. They're 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:03.600 really connected to who you are, and that is part 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:05.120 of connecting to where you come from. 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:07.640 You know, there's this middle ground, Like I think that 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.520 if I completely pleased my parents with my actions, I 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:15.640 would have remained somewhat regressed in you know, my emotional state. 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:16.720 But I think there was. 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.200 A level of growth that happened that for me, for 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:22.440 anyone that kind of moves from, you know, their hometown 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:23.960 to the city. 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:25.240 That was quite inauthentic. 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:26.840 And I think, if there's one thing I can say 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.520 about my parents, they don't always get me in this 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:32.760 way that we like try to kind of straw man sometimes. 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:35.480 But whenever I have brought a partner home, or whenever 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.600 I have been in an unhappy sort of relationship, be 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.520 it romantic or with work, like, it's so clear for 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.280 them and it's quite painful for them. And it's something 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.240 I've been talking more about my mom to my mum 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.760 about recently, of that weird feeling of kind of seeing 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.960 your daughter and knowing their knowing their heart, knowing their nerdiness, 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:57.920 knowing their you know, hang ups, and seeing them with 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:01.000 a new partner that's just so feel so disconnected from 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:01.680 the person. 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:02.240 That you know they are. 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.880 It's almost like a more loaded version of how your 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:07.920 friends feel when they see you, you know, with that partner. 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:09.960 It they're like, why do you speaking like that? Why 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:11.720 are you talking like that? Why are you dressing like that? 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:13.560 Like why are you suddenly caring about that? 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.480 Like it's exactly you feel like you that thing, and 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:20.280 that's basically how Steph comes home and the family is actually, 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.720 I would say in the movie, is more even subtle 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.679 and accepting of that than even like I think sometimes 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:27.120 when I've. 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.320 Come home, they're like, what the fuck is up your us? 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:32.600 Like, you know, that's what you nail the most in 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.800 this You nail that feeling inside of all of us. 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.199 I think when we go away from our families, the 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.959 more time away we start to think about how embarrassing 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.960 they are. And then you go back to Christmas in particular, 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.360 which is just a gold mine for this kind of content, 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:51.480 and you slowly realize that you are these people and 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:54.839 that is kind of comforting. And so I relate to 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.000 Steph in that way where she's like, you know, she 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:58.800 comes home, she's like, oh, yeah, you guys are kind 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:02.120 of embarrassing, and I I'm trying to be this person. 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:04.240 And the more she tries to be this person that 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.960 she's created in her head, which sort of distances herself 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:08.920 from her family, the more of an asshole she kind 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.520 of comes across as. And yet there's a bit of 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.440 an aha moment which I don't want to give anything 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.720 too much away, but she then realizes this is her tribe, 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:17.640 these are her people. 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:20.560 Yeah, it's an idea of like fairweather friends as well. 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:23.960 I think it can be applied to just relationships in 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:25.880 general in your life, Like this is not like a 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:28.920 fair weather family, Like they're not necessarily the family that 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:30.640 you're going to have fun with day to day, but 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:32.599 when things go down, like they are going to be 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:33.800 the ago that to have your back. 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.480 And I think that's a really important thing. 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.160 Like we've all had relationships in our lives if it's romantic, 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.520 and in this movie, that's part of it. When Step 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.360 starts to feel when Step asks for anything, when like 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.400 she has needs and expresses them, like, that's when the 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:50.360 zeb relationship starts to crumble because it's kind of like, 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.400 hold up, I didn't sign up for this, whereas like family, 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:55.520 for all their flaws, they did sign up for that, 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:57.920 and they know they've signed up for that. And I 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.600 think it's like sometimes that is a safer space for 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.160 a family to be in crisis. I know for my family, 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:05.280 like day to day is hard, mums and you know 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.080 nagging me, like it's you're snapping at each other. I'd 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:09.800 rather do the day to day with my friends but 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.520 sometimes like the real crisis moments, you can really have 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.600 those with your family because that's where you're all leveled and. 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.160 There's not through the bullshit, don't they With our friends, 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.360 we've sort of also got a lens that we put 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:22.880 over ourselves where we're like we have to frame everything 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:26.000 so people understand where with your family, they can literally 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.200 be there at a crisis and straight away have all 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:32.960 the tools to access everything because they literally have the 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:34.640 blueprint absolutely. 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:37.960 I mean, it's just like where the crisis can actually unfold. 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.040 I think we're so all used to putting on some 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.520 level of a mask, you know, away from family, and 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:44.640 I think it's it's funny. It's like why the Christmas 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.080 like crankies are like such a thing, because it's like 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.440 you spend this whole year being like having all this poison, 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:52.920 having like going and going and like having this big 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:55.080 mask on and like, you know, being around people who 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:57.240 in a lot of ways know you better than your 0:10:57.240 --> 0:10:59.280 family does. But then you go home and literally like 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:01.320 I will just times get on the couch and not 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:03.319 move for like five hours, and my mum will sort 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.440 of help her around, ask me questions. 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:06.400 I'll snap at her and then. 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.000 She'll kind of bring me a cup of tea and 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.400 then be like more chill. And you know, that's the 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.400 kind of process. It's learning that there's different people for 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.040 different things, and I think that's really important. Like I 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:18.080 don't think that, you know, my family is ever going 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:20.960 to satisfy that like deep culture. I'm not going home 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.920 and having my mum share, you know, an incredible poem 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:27.800 that she's you know, stumbled across, and I'm not having 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:30.120 this conversation with my dad that's like what do you 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.719 think about the latest Archibald Winner? Like, you know, I'm 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.040 not having those conversations, but I can find those conversations and. 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:37.640 Seek them out in this new world. 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.640 I think that what this movie is kind of about 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.640 is like, you know, reassessing the value that people have 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:45.640 and putting that on the same level. 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.120 And also updating the stories that you have around your family. 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.720 I think it's an interesting place. We call this a 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:52.720 bit of like a set in Return film. Like Seth 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:54.920 is a character who's returning back to her family and 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:58.640 has noticed that since being away, dynamics have shifted and 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.920 families aren't always the same narrative that you grow up with. Sometimes, 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:03.480 you know, you come home and your brother is so 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:05.199 much more mature and so much more able, and so 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:05.600 much more. 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:06.920 Emotionally intelligent than you remember. 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.559 Sometimes your parents like they're newly separated but still living together, 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:12.440 so their dynamic is also shifted, and you have to 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:15.120 update your narrative with what that family is and your 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.319 role within that. So we call it like a Christmas story, 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.480 and it's about very much the idea of like updating 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:22.280 the stories you have about yourself and your family, because 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.160 you can come back and things can change. You're not 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.480 stuck in these fixed positions in this Sometimes that dynamic 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:30.040 requires that truth of like I used to feel this way. 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:31.960 I don't want to feel this way anymore. How do 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:33.840 you make space for this new version of me? And 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.520 that's not just Step, that's everyone's family unit kind of 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:39.160 growing and changing together. And it's usually around the Christmas time, 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.400 especially if you spent some time away, you notice, oh 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.480 my god, there's massive shifts in the family dynamic. 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.640 I think what was really interesting for me and I 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.440 think for what viewers will find. I think anyone that 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.320 comes across this film will see this is see themselves 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:55.800 in a lot of this. It reminded me of something 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.240 that I'd never thought about since it basically happened, or 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:00.200 maybe it's just been lying dormant in the back of 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.280 my head. But I remember on one Christmas my uncle, 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:06.320 who was sitting next to me, started talking about wigs, 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.360 and I was like young, and I hadn't come out 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:13.400 and was very closeted and very unsure of my sexuality. 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:15.440 And he just all of a sudden turned to me 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.200 and said, well, Ben, if anyone here knows about wigs, 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.840 it would be you. And I was like what It 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:24.720 was so like the entire table looked at me, and 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.200 I just nearly was swallowed up, and he was like, 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:28.960 you know, we're in Sydney and we're walking down the 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.640 street and we saw all of these shops on Oxford 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:35.440 Street and these drag queen's wigs. And I was like, well, 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.080 why are you saying that to me? The whole table 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.000 was like, bekiuse ye're gay, but they didn't say that, 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:47.679 And I just isn't it interesting within that family dynamic 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.960 is that we all try to bring we try to 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:54.280 Maybe my naive or maybe this is untrue, but I 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.280 think we all try and help bring people along with 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.200 who they who we as family think that we think 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.760 they should be, do you know what I mean? We 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:06.120 bring this out of them in a way. And I 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:08.600 just felt like as I kept watching this film, there 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:10.680 was just more and more of those moments that sort 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.640 of reminded me of that. And in some ways, it's 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.600 kind of the anti Christmas film. We've been watching it 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:19.600 Christmas films for so long, where it's all perfect and 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.200 you're like, h hague myself because that's not my Christmas. 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.800 Where this reminds you of all. 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.480 Of that, it makes me so happy. That's like the 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:31.280 most apt kind of Really. I think you're so right. 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.800 I think family, rightly or wrongly, have this idea of us, 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.479 and they feel this ownership over us and our identities, 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:42.240 and I think they drive us forcefully sometimes into that 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.360 version of ourselves, and we're just never that. It's never 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.920 that simple. Like there's things that they are right about, 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:49.840 and there's things that are just so much more nuanced 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.120 that they'll never understand. And I think it's that's the pain, 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:55.760 right when you're getting driven by your family into something 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.320 you are this kind of person. There were so many 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.400 parts of my journey, same as you, that were really 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:02.800 hard for my family to swallow. 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:04.440 Because they were just like, no, no, no, no. 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.720 That's not that's incorrect, that's you're being influenced by X 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:09.840 y Z, but you were actually this person, and you 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.800 kind of go that is rooted and I was this person. 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:15.400 There's parts of me that are this person, but I'm 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:17.840 also this person. And it's them learning to let go 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:21.680 of their expectations of you, whilst also you like taking 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.800 some having some ability to listen to you know who 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.800 they think, your heart, your core is, and I think 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.040 that's really important. It's really easy to lose your core 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.880 when you have all new friends in an all new city, 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:33.560 you know what I mean. 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.440 And it's just opening up what that story is about 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:38.200 who you are and your identity, knowing that so many 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.360 things can be true at once and we just kind 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.240 of grow larger and more expansive and who we become, 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.640 and instead of having a fixed idea of one thing, 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.040 it's just allowing more and more space for the multiplicities 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:52.360 of dynamics and people and the chaos within that. I 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:53.680 think you're right and saying it is a bit of 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.560 an anti Christmas movie because it does try to lean 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:00.240 into those moments of imperfection, like nothing is easy it's 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.680 chaos and it's real. I think we were really we 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.840 really cared about the details and the specificity and the 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.880 truth of the characters. All of the actors just brought 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.400 out the truth and just it always felt so real 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:12.760 and we were there. It felt like you're in this 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.360 big families, big ensemble that would all move in one 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:17.840 kind of blob, like we were always moving around from 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:21.640 location as this unit, and it felt like it actually 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:25.600 really did feel very connected and very family like. Also, 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.560 just working with people from all different age groups and 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.760 just different different experiences like that adds so much to 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:33.320 the complexity when you come. 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:34.000 Home to family life. 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:36.480 It's some of the only times now we have to 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:38.640 be around people who have very different day to day 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.680 experiences from us, and it's having to contend with all 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.080 those differences. That can be so ripe for comedy because 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:47.800 you're having this conflict. But I think that's one thing 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.280 and so we get all you know, and society we're 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.760 not having as many of those moments because we're siphoned 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.120 in these groups and areas where we feel safe in 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:57.960 this version of ourselves. But like Christmas is one of 0:16:57.960 --> 0:16:59.680 those times where like actually you have to talk to 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.040 your own people who you know works in engineering and 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:03.880 has no idea about this in this but how do 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:05.879 you connect to him? And I think this movie is 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.639 very much about connection and like the kind of vulnerability 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.600 you have to offer up to find that connection exactly. 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:13.320 And I hope this movie is coming in a good 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:15.919 time for like that exact thing. I predicted that this 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.040 Christmas is going to be hard. I think there's lots 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:19.320 of things happening in the world that are going to 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.000 make for really hard conversations. I think it's like, you know, 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.960 when we're in our city slicken little bubbles, it's pretty 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:26.960 easy to like sit in the echo chamber and just 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.080 kind of like go around and around saying the same 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:30.639 thing with all your friends who will agree with you. 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:32.840