WEBVTT - The Sit-Down with Donna Kelso 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:05.039 Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Sitdown. 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:07.640 I'm Matt Prolopa, writer for oz open dot com and. 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:10.520 I'm viv Christine, managing editor of us Join In Tennis Magazine. 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:12.600 And Matt, why are we sitting down this week with 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:13.360 Donna Kelso? 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:16.439 Well, if we bumped into Donna at the United Cup draw. 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:18.959 So she's a WTA supervisor and she was home for 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:21.919 a rare week a miiddle of her global travels in Sydney, 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:24.120 and we just asked her as she'd like to appear 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:26.040 on the podcast because she's been in tennis for a 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:28.120 very very long time and we figured she'd have a 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.280 great story to tell. And so yeah, she joined us 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:33.040 on the episode and it was really interesting. 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.320 Donna Calso, thank you for joining us today on the 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:41.800 sit Down. It's great to have you with us. We 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:44.880 catch you, i think in a rare week at home 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:45.559 in Sydney. 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:51.000 You're absolutely correct, Thank you so much for the invitation. Then, yes, 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:53.800 happy to share some of my journey with you. 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:58.440 Speaking of that journey, your love of tennis started in 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:02.080 a really interesting way. I understand you want to racket 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:05.000 in a competition. Tell us a little bit more about 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:07.440 your start in tennis what you loved about at the 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:09.720 mist that's right, as. 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:13.839 You correctly alluded to, I want a coloring in competition 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:18.000 age eight, first prize was a tennis racket, so probably 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:20.399 better have some tennis lessons to put that racket to 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:23.319 good use. And it was fun. It was a good 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:27.000 way to meet people. Obviously to be a little bit active, 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:30.800 so into the local tennis school where I grew up 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.680 in the Saint George area in Sydney, and it was 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.679 a fun way to spend time on the weekends after school, 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:41.880 et cetera. And that's how my love of tennis began. 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:46.080 Basically, it's the start of an amazing journey in tennis really, 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:50.240 which has taken you into a career in umpiring and officiating. 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:55.320 What inspired you to take that path? I think growing 0:01:55.400 --> 0:02:00.880 up playing local junior branch comp or local tournaments, the 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.720 culture was that in addition to playing, you would also 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:08.480 umpire each other's matches. Similarly, the tennis school I went to, 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.600 which was owned by Bill Gilmore who was a very 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:17.440 highly prominent referee. When it rained, instead of tennis lessons 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:19.800 being canceled, we would go and sit in the shed 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:24.120 and we would learn the rules of tennis, and something 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:26.839 that I think was ingrained in us from a very 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:29.040 young age that we would learn about the sport, learn 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:32.880 about the history and obviously the rules of the competition. 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.799 So I found it quite fascinating. And Bill Gilmore, being 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:39.000 the referee for the New South Welles Open, which was 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.720 then held at White City, would recruit a lot of 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:45.200 the ball persons and a lot of the line umpires 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:49.040 from his tennis schools. So I tried out age fourteen 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.720 as a ball girl, was highly unsuccessful, but my best 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.919 friend was it was probably a little bit too young 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:01.760 to go down the officiating pathway. So two years later, 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.680 age sixteen, went to a three hour long run on 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:08.160 Pire training session at White City and the following week 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.640 we were calling lines of the New South I was Open, 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:15.760 so that who Yeah, it was a fun way to 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.360 spend a couple of weeks during the school holiday. So 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:22.080 still it's still in year eleven back then, and we 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:26.200 had a really good social network, a really good social group. 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:28.520 We would drive into White City together. 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:32.800 And we would leave early so we would get a 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:34.480 parking spot and we would be able to get on 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.040 the first match because we got paid per match in 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.600 those days, so the earlier you got there, you could 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.520 maybe squeeze four matches in a day instead of three, 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:44.640 and at seven dollars per match. 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:48.120 From memory, that made a bit of a difference. Was 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:49.680 that quite daunting? 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:51.880 I mean you were very young, and it's quite a 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.840 you know, that comes with a lot of responsibility that job. 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:59.600 It does absolutely. I think you'll find though that many 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:04.120 of us did start at that age, some who continued 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:10.560 on to have quite lengthy tennis officiating careers. Coincidentally, Wayne McEwen, 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.760 straight open referee, was at that very same line umpire 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:17.839 training session back in nineteen eighty two and we actually 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.320 used to play tennis against each other even before then. 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:24.520 So yeah, so fairly productive, you know, through our line 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:28.120 up training session. And some of those other officials went 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:32.000 on to travel internationally to become you know, chair umpires, 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:36.920 but obviously some stopped after they've finished high school or 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.240 when they finished UNI or found full time jobs. But 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.000 it was fun, it was social, I mean, obviously a 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:48.320 great way to see tennis up close and personal, and yeah, 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.720 we developed a really cool group. Yes, I think starting 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.279 at a younger age, you maybe don't overthink a lot 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:57.640 of things that you might if you were a little 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:04.120 bit older, so we probably didn't recognize the enormity of 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:06.919 it at the time. But there were also many of 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:09.599 us who did start at that very very young age 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:15.159 sixteen seventeen eighteen, as did a lot of other countries. 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:17.960 You know, you'll find that they're officials started at a 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.880 younger age, but sometimes it just takes a little longer 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:25.360 to go along the pathway to become more prominent. 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:27.680 Did you ever get hit by a ball as a 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:29.800 lines person, like down the centeration? 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:32.400 Yes, I did. I always think that. 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:34.559 The person that's doing the center tee when someone's serving, 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:35.719 I just think, God, duck for cover. 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:40.760 I hated doing seed to serve at the Sydney Indoor, 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:45.160 the Entertainment Center calling center serve, and I just despise 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:47.640 it so much because I was in fear of a 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:50.039 ball coming and hitting me that I think I sort 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.000 of ducked, closed my eyes and the ball bounced off 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.400 my forehead after I don't know, I don't even know 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.200 if I called it in or out, but anyway, that's 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:00.600 kind of saved myself more and anything. 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:03.640 So alongside all the skills that you need for a 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.600 line officiating career reflexes. 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:10.680 Yeah, absolutely, some gymnastics, so you obviously graduated away from 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.520 lines and ended up becoming a gold Badge umpire in 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.120 the chair in the nineteen nineties, and you told us 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.480 that there was some incredible milestones in your career. You 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:23.599 officiated the Atlanta Olympics gold medal match between Davenport and 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:28.600 Sanchez for Carrio. You did five Australian Open finals. I 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.280 remember the US Open finally ninety seven between Hingus and 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.200 Venus two teenagers. That was kind of my era growing up. 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.320 I remember watching that on TV. And also Monica sellers 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.000 come back in ninety ninety five in Canada. That must 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.520 have been particularly special given what had happened to her. 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:47.960 Absolutely, and you know, yes, the Grand Slam finals are amazing. 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.800 You know, they were all very different, but I think 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:56.000 for me, Monica Sellis's comeback match after what happened to 0:06:56.040 --> 0:07:00.960 her was just so meaningful. And to begin the privilege 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:05.240 of umpiring the match when she was to walk back 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.800 onto a tennis court for the first time after the 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:13.480 horrific incident that she suffered, Nobody knew how she was 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.600 going to play, how she was going to react. Obviously, 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:20.720 the crowd was just in an there was just this 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:23.800 raw when she came down the stets onto the court 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:27.520 and you could feel the goosebumps and it was probably 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:30.400 just one of the most special moments I can remember 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:33.920 having the privilege of being part of on a tennis court. 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:38.480 She subsequently won that match, won the next match, and 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:43.600 actually went on to win the tournament I can remember correctly. 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:47.200 She beat Anka Huber in the final, So she beat 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:51.720 some really high profile players, highly ranked players at the time. 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:55.440 So first tournament back and I umpired the final as 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:59.800 well that week, And yeah, I think, you know, on 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:04.239 a personal level, on a human level, that's the match 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.840 that sticks out for me more so than anything else. 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.560 Yeah, a nice full circle to do her first match 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.080 in her last match at the tournament as well. 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.520 That's pretty special here, absolutely very very special. 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.040 And five AO finals that's amazing. Obviously we're very interested 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:21.200 in that because we're an AO podcast. So I think 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.200 was your last one Hingus and Martinez in ninety eight. 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:26.360 It was that was my last ever match in the 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:27.320 chair as an umpire. 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:31.160 Wow, And another also incredible story to watch Hingus's rise. 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:32.960 I mean, she had such a fantastic time here at 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.520 the AO. Did you do her ninety seven final as well. 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:40.079 Oh you're testing me now, I think I did. Okay, 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.800 I think I did. I did out of the I 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:44.960 did five out of six years. 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:45.760 Oh wow. 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:51.680 At that stage I also unpied Martina Hingis's first ever 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:55.359 professional match, which is in Zurich when she was fourteen, 0:08:56.040 --> 0:09:00.839 and I can remember then there were so many players, coaches, 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:05.120 tournament staff, tour stuff. Everybody wanted to come out and see, 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.920 you know, what this female was all about. And obviously 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:12.000 she went on she won that match and impaired a 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.760 lot of her matches, a lot of her finals throughout 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:15.439 her career. 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.280 So at the time that was pretty significant that you 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.160 were a gold bad Jumphie, because you were only one 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.760 of two women who were at that level at that time, 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.240 and you've told us that kind of maybe you didn't 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:28.360 recognize the significance of that at the time, but now 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:30.080 that you think about it, that actually was a really 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:30.520 big deal. 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:35.160 It was, and I think coming into officiating, obviously there 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:40.040 were a handful of high profile female role models in 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:44.559 tennis officiating, but there were certainly a lot more males 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:48.760 compared to females. It was tough and especially breaking through 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.240 to umpiring men's matches. As a female, there were really 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:57.160 really not that many of us, so it was it 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:01.240 was tough to break through. We found it very different 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:08.240 being females ampiring men's matches compared to women's matches, and sometimes, 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:12.679 funnily enough, some of the tougher male players, maybe sort 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:17.880 of lower ranked or challenger players responded differently and may 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.200 I say even possibly better behaved when there were females 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:25.240 in the chair, which is always quite interesting. And when 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:29.600 I look back now, I'm very very proud of that achievement, 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:35.280 you know, hopefully forging the way for female officials and 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:40.840 giving upcoming female officials somebody to look up to. One 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.960 of my passions now is you know, mentoring and helping 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.920 other officials, because I know when I came through, I 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.720 had some outstanding women. Georgina Clark, who was a former 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:56.280 longtime WTA supervisor and a cheir umpire prior to that. 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:59.800 Also Pat Walker, who was from New South Wales who 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:01.839 was originally a chair umpire and then she was the 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:06.440 chief umpire at the time when we all started officiating. 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:10.840 She was very much an advocate of giving young officials 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:14.840 an opportunity and giving other females opportunities. In one of 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:19.400 my roles at WTA tournaments, I have the wonderful job 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:25.800 of fulfilling ticket requests. So about twenty years ago, I 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:28.719 was doing the ticketing for Indian Wells and we had 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:33.240 a request from our then COO for some of his family, 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:37.079 which included a young twelve year old girl by the 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:41.200 name of Madison Shoemaker. Anyway, so I met Scott and 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.920 Mary and the parents and Maddie and her brother, and 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.520 apparently after we'd been chatting for a bit, she turned 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:50.480 around to a paris and said, I want to be 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.320 like her. So she remembers my walkie talkie and my 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.400 credentially anything. Anyway, she went on to play collegiate tennis, 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.840 went on to become an intern with the WTA and 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:04.280 has held a number of roles within the WTA rankings, coordinator, 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:09.679 tour operations. Last weekend she passed her Silver Badge referee 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:14.720 school and is now a WTA supervisor. Oh wow, that's 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:19.360 probably my most prolific story, especially somebody so young to 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:24.079 see a female role model in the sport that she loves. 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:28.920 And she took her twenty years, but she's achieved her dream. 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.480 And I could not be more proud. It's amazing. 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.520 Congratulations. Is it that diversity or is there something else 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:36.280 that makes it so special that has kept you in 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.920 the role for so long, because clearly it has been 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:39.600 really rewarding. 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:44.560 It's the opportunity I think for me now, particularly the 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:48.880 longer I'm involved, to feel as though you're helping to 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.880 make a difference. Because all of the players who are 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.920 competing now on the WTA Tour I've known since they 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.680 started their journey on the tour, and when players first 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:02.199 come to play a tur or level, I think one 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:06.720 of the biggest responsibilities we have is educating them on 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:10.960 the rules, on the procedures, you know, feeling that it's 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.160 it's a safe space to walk into the w TA office, 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.839 that we're not scary. Yes, sometimes we have to make 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.840 tough decisions or decisions that individual players don't necessarily agree with, 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:30.520 particularly around scheduling. However, we need to fulfill a lot 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:34.920 of different requests, particularly in scheduling between the players, the 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:39.720 tournament's international broadcast, domestic broadcast, et cetera. And also look 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:49.240 to to schedule with parity and looking at the overall tournament. Yeah, 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:55.960 but again, forming, you know, meaningful working relationships with players, 0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:00.720 coaches and their their players, support teams and feeling like 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:05.560 you're you're helping, you share their you witness their their 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:10.240 joys and their celebrations. You're there also at times when 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:14.120 you know they have disappointments, whether it's through loss or injury, 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:17.880 but just to be able to feel like we're helping. 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:21.880 Similarly with the tournaments, because we service the tournaments as well, 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:26.680 part of our responsibility is to share best practices. If 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.600 we see something that a tournament does really well that 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:33.920 we think another tournament you could learn from, then we're 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:38.640 coming forth with suggestions. We're you know, we're writing lengthy 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.280 reports at the end of the tournament with player feedback, 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:46.680 stuff feedback. So, yeah, every day is different, every week 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.240 is different. We start off with a template that we follow, 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.280 so we know, you know, every tournament has a certain 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:56.720 daw size, a certain schedule, timings that you adhere to, 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:00.680 whether it be the signings, the stuff out of play, 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.840 start of different sessions, and then you know culminates with 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.640 the finals at the end of the week. So you 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.320 sort of go on this bit of a rollercoaster journey, 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.000 particularly at the Slams too, being there you know, three 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:18.120 three and a half weeks. For me, there's that incredible 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:22.160 buzz and excitement day one, main draw of a Grand 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:26.080 Slam that it never gets old. But I also still 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:31.280 love the travel, going to new places. Oftentimes we'll go 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.920 back to the same places year after year after year, 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:39.600 which is something that for many tournaments they love having 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.040 the continuity of the same supervisor. But also if I'm 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:45.680 going back to the same tournament, I know who to 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.960 go to to get things done. I know who's responsible 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.920 for you know, the locker rooms, the transport, the accreditation, 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:57.920 et cetera. Who to go to with a specific issue, 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:00.840 and you know, we almost pick come part of the 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:03.400 tournament team for that week. Do you have. 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:06.239 Favorite places to travel or favorite tournaments? 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:12.080 I certainly do. My favorite place is to travel Paris 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.120 and New York, great cities. Don't ask me to choose 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:19.120 between the two because that's almost impossible. In terms of 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:24.320 favorite tournaments and destinations as well on the tour. Do 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:28.680 you buy an Indian Wells? Two of my favorite spots 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.680 Indian Wells. If you've ever been there, you know the 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:35.520 desert a couple of hours from La surrounded by snow 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:38.600 capped mountains and palm trees, and there's just this feeling 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.280 of serenity out there, and I think that transcends into 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:47.200 the tournament itself. D Youbai just I love the city. 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:52.720 I love the yeah, phenomenal level of service. Anywhere you 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:58.240 go the hotel is on site, so no transport needed 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.040 to get to work, just walk past the duck pond 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:06.280 in the morning. So I mean every tournament. I went 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:08.119 back to Rome this year for the first time in 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:12.000 twenty one years, so it was great to see how 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:16.960 that had hadn't changed in some aspects and some areas 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:21.919 that had not changed at all. So yeah, I love 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:28.359 the variety. And for me also there's that finite start 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:32.400 and finish of a tournament, so when you do conclude 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.520 the event, it's like, you know, hopefully, job well done, 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.320 move on to the next one. Although in saying that, 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:43.560 I'm already in preparation mode. I'm currently working on Brisbane, AO, 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:45.920 Dubai and Indian Worlds for next year. 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:46.800 Oh wow. 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.680 And then in January, well next month I'll start working. 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:51.600 I'm going back to Berlin for the first time in 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:55.959 more than twenty years, so excited to go there. Already 0:17:55.960 --> 0:18:01.560 started some discussions around Roland Garros. Yeah, so it's continuous, 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:02.600 amazing advice. 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.359 Now you are famous for your shoe collection. Can we 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:08.960 talk about your shoes please? 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:13.080 Of course you can. There's something that started quite a 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.439 while bag. I'm one of these people you know, either post, 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.760 you know, post something fun, post something nice, or don't 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.920 post anything at all. And I do have a love 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.239 of shoes, so I would often take a photo of 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.840 my shoes after i'd unpacked them lined up in the 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:34.439 hotel room. And for example, these are the successful shoes 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:38.080 that have been, you know, chosen for the twenty twenty 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:42.520 five Australian Open or something silly like that. So then 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:44.719 that sort of take it off and I'll get to 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:47.000 tournaments sometimes and friends will say to me, where's your 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:49.560 shoe photo? I haven't seen your shoe photo online yet. 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:55.240 Or I've seen other friends, often male, who might post 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.480 a photo of their you know, three pairs of shoes 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:02.560 that they're looking to the tournament when I've got about twelve. 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:03.600 Yeah. 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.560 I am trying to be a bit more cognizant of 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.680 what I'm packing and you know, trying to scale down 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:13.879 a little bit, but it doesn't always happen. I like 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.320 being if I'm at a tournament for two weeks or 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:20.560 three weeks. I like to have options learnly. Yeah, plast 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.199 drive cleaning is very expensive. 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:26.360 So also your your shoe fans would be very disappointed. 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:28.600 Yeah, they don't want to be seeing the shoe collection 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:29.400 whittling down. 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.800 I I'm one of those fans. It's funny. And again, 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.879 you know, we sometimes you just need to have a 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:40.040 sense of humor about different things. And you know, we're 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:44.280 not saving lives, but we we sometimes are doing things 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.919 that are very very serious, and we certainly take our 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:49.840 role serious. But if you can have a little bit 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:52.800 of fun along the way, then you know, then why not. 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:55.960 What makes the cut on finals day? Like is there 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:58.400 is there the shoe that's like the special occasion shoe 0:19:58.440 --> 0:19:59.879 or the big match shoe. I don't know. 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:01.960 It depends what surface. 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:04.160 Oh, of course, yes. 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:08.080 So for example, when working at Wimbledon as a Grand 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:12.280 Slam supervisor, I would always show my shoes to the 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.760 head groundsmen to make sure that they were suitable, and 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:17.600 that became a little bit of a joke between us 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:19.760 as well, like are these you know, are these shoes 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.879 okay to wear on center court? And because you obviously 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:24.760 you don't want to use to Letto's and put divots 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:26.919 in the court if you have to run on the court. 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.280 But yeah, there's there's qualifying shoes as main draw shoes, 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:36.440 as final stay shoes. There you know, black tie gala shoes, 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:39.920 not where we go to many of them. But yeah, 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.879 people are noticing that there's a lot more ballet flats 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:48.000 and sneakers coming into the collection compared two years ago. 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:50.840 But that's you know, that's the fashion though, isn't it 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:52.240 so exactly. 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:53.600 You said in terms of what you do day to day, 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:56.520 sometimes you get to watch a bit of tennis. We've 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.000 actually seen you on TV a courtside it some incredible 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:00.960 matches when you do get that little bit of time 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:02.760 to watch tennis, And because you've been in the sport 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:05.600 for so long, you must have seen some incredible matches 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:08.520 and moments and highlights. And I just we're just wondering 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:10.360 what have stuck with you? 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:15.120 Oh my goodness, if I had to think when Pat 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:19.639 Rafter won his first US Open, oh yeah, which was 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:24.359 again nineteen ninety seven, I was able to watch that 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:29.080 as a spectator because I knew that I had, you know, 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:32.400 I'd unpied the Ladies final which is before that, I've 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:34.760 been to a couple of Davis Cup ties where I've 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:40.320 had no involvement working and been able to watch and not. 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:44.600 I wouldn't say, you know, I don't overly support because 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.520 we're just in the habit of not clapping and not 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:48.640 showing emotion. 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:51.879 But yeah, similar, yes, I. 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:56.159 Would say I'm clapping on the inside, so you know, 0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:00.000 but it's very very rare that you get an opportunity 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:03.879 to watch and through the eyes of a spectator. 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:07.680 We remember pats yours open wing. Well, I remember that 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:10.760 even being late for school, Mum, let us stay until 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:12.480 the ended clinch match point. Then it's like right in 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:14.240 the car I got to go to school that Yeah, 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:16.400 we were allowed to watch that. It was amazing, fantastic. 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:20.800 Well, it's been an incredible career that you have constructed, Donna. 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:23.440 You must be well, you should be so so proud 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:26.439 of everything that you've achieved in tennis. And I imagine 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:28.159 it's one that you would recommend to other people. 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:32.800 I would certainly recommend a career in tennis, whether it's 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:36.200 you know, as an official, as a supervisor, or in 0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:38.760 any other aspect. And I think what we've see too 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:42.920 is that there are so many more and varied roles 0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:46.600 in working in tennis, you know, than there were if 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:49.119 you even if you go back, you know, ten twenty years, 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:52.600 there are so many new roles for anybody who loves 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:57.280 the sport and particularly who loves to travel and meet people. 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:00.919 And yeah, highly highly recommended. 0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:07.800 Well, lots of great takeaways from that interview. One of 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:10.320 them for me is I will never feel guilty about 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:11.359 overpacking again. 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:13.080 Yeah, we need to take it from the best in 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:16.359 the business. And yeah, I think it's an outfit for 0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:18.360 every occasion. I like Donna's advice. 0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:21.080 You can never have too many pairs of shoes. But also, 0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:25.600