1 00:00:02,300 --> 00:00:04,940 Speaker 1: Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of The Sit Down. 2 00:00:05,220 --> 00:00:07,300 Speaker 1: I'm Matt Trollope, a writer for ozopen.com. 3 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 2: And I'm Viv Christie, Managing Editor of Australian Tennis Magazine. 4 00:00:10,820 --> 00:00:12,620 Speaker 2: And Matt, why are we sitting down this week with 5 00:00:12,690 --> 00:00:13,379 Speaker 2: Donna Kelso? 6 00:00:13,620 --> 00:00:16,450 Speaker 1: Well Viv, we bumped into Donna at the United Cup draw. 7 00:00:16,489 --> 00:00:18,970 Speaker 1: So she's a WTA supervisor and she was home for 8 00:00:19,010 --> 00:00:21,790 Speaker 1: a rare week amid all of her global travels in Sydney. 9 00:00:22,370 --> 00:00:24,029 Speaker 1: And we just asked her if she'd like to appear 10 00:00:24,090 --> 00:00:26,170 Speaker 1: on the podcast because she's been in tennis for a very, 11 00:00:26,210 --> 00:00:28,370 Speaker 1: very long time and we figured she'd have a great 12 00:00:28,430 --> 00:00:31,290 Speaker 1: story to tell. And so, yeah, she joined us on 13 00:00:31,310 --> 00:00:32,950 Speaker 1: the episode and it was really interesting. 14 00:00:36,460 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 2: Donna Calso, thank you for joining us today on The 15 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 2: Sit Down. It's great to have you with us. We 16 00:00:42,100 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 2: catch you, I think, in a rare week at home 17 00:00:45,020 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 2: in Sydney. 18 00:00:46,540 --> 00:00:49,780 Speaker 3: You're absolutely correct. Thank you so much for the invitation. 19 00:00:49,979 --> 00:00:53,650 Speaker 3: And yes, happy to share some of my journey with you. 20 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,540 Speaker 2: Speaking of that, that journey, um, your love of tennis 21 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 2: started in a really interesting way. You understand you, you 22 00:01:01,260 --> 00:01:04,140 Speaker 2: won a racket in a competition. Tell us a little 23 00:01:04,180 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 2: bit more about your start in tennis, what you loved 24 00:01:06,970 --> 00:01:07,830 Speaker 2: about it the most. 25 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,590 Speaker 3: That's right. As you, uh, correctly alluded to, um, I 26 00:01:12,610 --> 00:01:15,650 Speaker 3: won a coloring in competition age eight. First prize was 27 00:01:15,690 --> 00:01:19,370 Speaker 3: a tennis racket. So probably better have some tennis lessons 28 00:01:19,410 --> 00:01:22,310 Speaker 3: to put that racket to good use. Um, And it 29 00:01:22,330 --> 00:01:25,190 Speaker 3: was fun. It was a good way to meet people, 30 00:01:25,220 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 3: obviously to be a little bit active. So I went 31 00:01:27,780 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 3: to the local tennis school where I grew up in 32 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 3: the St. George area in Sydney. And it was a 33 00:01:34,780 --> 00:01:38,259 Speaker 3: fun way to spend time on the weekends after school, etc. 34 00:01:39,060 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 3: And that's how my love of tennis began, basically. 35 00:01:43,260 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: It's the start of an amazing journey in tennis, really, 36 00:01:46,100 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 2: which has taken you into a career in umpiring and officiating. 37 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 2: What inspired you to take that path? 38 00:01:54,500 --> 00:01:59,420 Speaker 3: Well, I think growing up playing local junior branch comp 39 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:04,210 Speaker 3: or local tournaments, the culture was that in addition to playing, 40 00:02:04,250 --> 00:02:07,730 Speaker 3: you would also umpire each other's matches. Similarly, the tennis 41 00:02:07,750 --> 00:02:10,929 Speaker 3: school I went to, which was owned by Bill Gilmore, 42 00:02:11,010 --> 00:02:15,990 Speaker 3: who was a very highly prominent referee, when it rained, 43 00:02:16,050 --> 00:02:18,890 Speaker 3: instead of tennis lessons being cancelled, we would go and 44 00:02:18,990 --> 00:02:20,669 Speaker 3: sit in the shed and we would learn the rules 45 00:02:20,710 --> 00:02:25,900 Speaker 3: of tennis. And Something that I think was ingrained in 46 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 3: us from a very young age that we would learn 47 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 3: about the sport, learn about the history and obviously the 48 00:02:31,740 --> 00:02:35,300 Speaker 3: rules of the competition. So I found it quite fascinating. 49 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,820 Speaker 3: And Bill Gilmore being the referee for the New South 50 00:02:37,870 --> 00:02:41,910 Speaker 3: Wales Open, which was then held at White City, would 51 00:02:41,970 --> 00:02:44,210 Speaker 3: recruit a lot of the ball persons and a lot 52 00:02:44,230 --> 00:02:47,450 Speaker 3: of the line umpires from his tennis schools. So I 53 00:02:47,510 --> 00:02:50,930 Speaker 3: tried out age 14 as a ball girl, was highly 54 00:02:51,010 --> 00:02:55,889 Speaker 3: unsuccessful but my best friend was. It was probably a 55 00:02:55,910 --> 00:02:59,980 Speaker 3: little bit too young to go down the officiating pathway. 56 00:03:00,380 --> 00:03:04,100 Speaker 3: So two years later, age 16, went to a three-hour 57 00:03:04,139 --> 00:03:07,419 Speaker 3: long line umpire training session at White City and the 58 00:03:07,460 --> 00:03:09,980 Speaker 3: following week we were calling lines at the New South 59 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,570 Speaker 3: Wales Open. So yeah, it was a fun experience. way 60 00:03:15,610 --> 00:03:18,169 Speaker 3: to spend a couple of weeks during the school holidays. 61 00:03:18,250 --> 00:03:22,260 Speaker 3: So still in year 11 back then. And we had 62 00:03:22,300 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 3: a really good social network, a really good social group. 63 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 3: We would drive into White City together and we would 64 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,630 Speaker 3: leave early. So we would get a parking spot and 65 00:03:33,650 --> 00:03:35,030 Speaker 3: we would be able to get on the first match 66 00:03:35,090 --> 00:03:37,970 Speaker 3: because we got paid per match in those days. So 67 00:03:37,990 --> 00:03:40,470 Speaker 3: the earlier you got there, you could maybe squeeze four 68 00:03:40,510 --> 00:03:44,210 Speaker 3: matches in a day instead of three. And at $ 7 69 00:03:44,130 --> 00:03:47,570 Speaker 3: per match from memory, that made a bit of a difference. 70 00:03:47,950 --> 00:03:49,670 Speaker 3: Was that quite daunting? 71 00:03:49,730 --> 00:03:51,810 Speaker 2: I mean, you were very young and it's quite a, 72 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,860 Speaker 2: you know, that comes with a lot of responsibility, that job. 73 00:03:55,700 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 3: It does, absolutely. I think you'll find, though, that many 74 00:03:59,700 --> 00:04:04,060 Speaker 3: of us did start at that age, some who continued 75 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:10,510 Speaker 3: on to have quite lengthy tennis officiating careers. Coincidentally, Wayne McEwan, 76 00:04:10,710 --> 00:04:13,750 Speaker 3: Australian Open referee, was at that very same line umpire 77 00:04:13,810 --> 00:04:17,980 Speaker 3: training session back in 1982. Wow. And we actually used 78 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 3: to play tennis against each other even before then. So, yeah, 79 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:25,539 Speaker 3: so fairly productive, you know, three-hour line umpire training session. 80 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 3: And some of those other officials went on to travel 81 00:04:29,180 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 3: internationally to become, you know, chair umpires, but obviously some, 82 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,090 Speaker 3: you know, stopped. after they finished high school or when 83 00:04:37,110 --> 00:04:41,050 Speaker 3: they finished uni or found full-time jobs. But it was fun. 84 00:04:41,089 --> 00:04:44,070 Speaker 3: It was social. I mean, obviously a great way to 85 00:04:44,510 --> 00:04:48,900 Speaker 3: see tennis up close and personal. And, yeah, we developed 86 00:04:48,940 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 3: a really cool group. Yes, I think starting at a 87 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 3: younger age you maybe don't overthink a lot of things 88 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,820 Speaker 3: that you might if you're a little bit older. So 89 00:05:00,870 --> 00:05:05,270 Speaker 3: we probably didn't recognise the enormity of it. at the time, 90 00:05:05,670 --> 00:05:07,870 Speaker 3: but there were also many of us who did start 91 00:05:07,930 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 3: at that very, very young age, 16, 17, 18, as 92 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 3: did a lot of other countries. You'll find that their 93 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 3: officials started at a younger age, but sometimes it just 94 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 3: takes a little longer to go along the pathway to 95 00:05:24,300 --> 00:05:25,339 Speaker 3: become more prominent. 96 00:05:26,020 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: Did you ever get hit by a ball as a linesperson, 97 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: like down the centre team? Good question. Yes, I did. 98 00:05:31,490 --> 00:05:33,570 Speaker 1: I always think that the person that's doing the centre 99 00:05:33,589 --> 00:05:35,690 Speaker 1: tea when someone's serving, I just think, oh, duck for cover. 100 00:05:36,190 --> 00:05:41,030 Speaker 3: I hated doing centre serve. At the Sydney Indoor, the 101 00:05:41,150 --> 00:05:45,290 Speaker 3: entertainment centre, calling centre serve and I just despised it 102 00:05:45,350 --> 00:05:47,909 Speaker 3: so much because I was in fear of a ball 103 00:05:47,970 --> 00:05:50,570 Speaker 3: coming and hitting me that I think I sort of ducked, 104 00:05:50,970 --> 00:05:53,610 Speaker 3: closed my eyes and the ball bounced off my forehead 105 00:05:53,710 --> 00:05:55,830 Speaker 3: after a while. I don't even know if I called 106 00:05:55,850 --> 00:05:59,289 Speaker 3: it in or out, but anyway, that kind of saved 107 00:05:59,330 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 3: myself more than anything. 108 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 2: So alongside all the skills that you need for a 109 00:06:03,740 --> 00:06:05,860 Speaker 2: lion officiating career, reflexes. 110 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 3: Absolutely. Gymnastics. 111 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: So you obviously graduated away from lions and ended up 112 00:06:11,490 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: becoming a gold badge umpire in the chair. in the 113 00:06:15,300 --> 00:06:17,620 Speaker 1: 1990s and you told us that there were some incredible 114 00:06:17,900 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: milestones in your career. You officiated the Atlanta Olympics gold 115 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: medal match between Davenport and Sanchez Vacario. You did five 116 00:06:26,180 --> 00:06:30,420 Speaker 1: Australian Open finals. I remember the US Open final in 117 00:06:30,420 --> 00:06:33,260 Speaker 1: 97 between Hingis and Venus, two teenagers. That was kind 118 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: of my era growing up. I remember watching that on TV. 119 00:06:35,940 --> 00:06:39,790 Speaker 1: And also Monica Seller's comeback in 1995 in Canada. That 120 00:06:39,820 --> 00:06:42,350 Speaker 1: must have been particularly special given what had happened to her. 121 00:06:43,390 --> 00:06:48,070 Speaker 3: Absolutely. And, you know, yes, the Grand Slam finals are amazing. 122 00:06:48,089 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 3: You know, they're all very different. But I think for me, 123 00:06:53,300 --> 00:06:56,980 Speaker 3: Monica Sellers' comeback match after what happened to her was 124 00:06:57,020 --> 00:07:01,780 Speaker 3: just so meaningful and to be given the privilege of 125 00:07:02,300 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 3: umpiring the match when she was to walk back onto 126 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,630 Speaker 3: a tennis court for the first time after the horrific 127 00:07:08,750 --> 00:07:13,670 Speaker 3: incident that she suffered. nobody knew how she was going 128 00:07:13,730 --> 00:07:16,670 Speaker 3: to play, how she was going to react. Obviously the 129 00:07:16,750 --> 00:07:21,270 Speaker 3: crowd was just in an, there was just this roar 130 00:07:21,330 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 3: when she came down the steps onto the court and 131 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,580 Speaker 3: you could feel the goosebumps. And it was probably just 132 00:07:27,740 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 3: one of the most special moments I can remember having 133 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,860 Speaker 3: the privilege of being part of on a tennis court. 134 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,540 Speaker 3: She subsequently won that match, won the next match and 135 00:07:39,340 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 3: actually went on to win the tournament. If I can 136 00:07:42,780 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 3: remember correctly, she beat Anka Huber in the final. So 137 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 3: she beat some really high-profile players, highly ranked players at 138 00:07:51,230 --> 00:07:54,750 Speaker 3: the time. So first tournament back, and I umpired the 139 00:07:54,830 --> 00:08:00,010 Speaker 3: final as well that week. And, yeah, I think, you know, 140 00:08:00,090 --> 00:08:03,930 Speaker 3: on a personal level, on a human level, that's the 141 00:08:03,950 --> 00:08:06,750 Speaker 3: match that sticks out for me more so than anything else. 142 00:08:07,390 --> 00:08:09,310 Speaker 1: Yeah, and a nice full circle to do her first 143 00:08:09,350 --> 00:08:11,010 Speaker 1: match and her last match at the tournament as well. 144 00:08:11,060 --> 00:08:14,540 Speaker 3: That's pretty special. Yeah, absolutely. Very, very special. 145 00:08:14,980 --> 00:08:18,020 Speaker 1: And five AO finals. That's amazing. Obviously, we're very interested 146 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: in that because we're an AO podcast. So I think 147 00:08:21,380 --> 00:08:24,260 Speaker 1: it was your last one, Hingis and Martinez in 98? 148 00:08:24,260 --> 00:08:24,660 Speaker 1: It was. 149 00:08:24,700 --> 00:08:26,810 Speaker 3: That was my last ever match in the chair as 150 00:08:26,850 --> 00:08:27,380 Speaker 3: an umpire. 151 00:08:27,430 --> 00:08:31,170 Speaker 1: Wow. And another also incredible story to watch, Hingis' rise. 152 00:08:31,210 --> 00:08:32,890 Speaker 1: I mean, she had such a fantastic time here at 153 00:08:32,910 --> 00:08:34,589 Speaker 1: the AO. Did you do her 97 final as well? 154 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,150 Speaker 3: Oh, you're testing me now? I think I did. 155 00:08:39,690 --> 00:08:39,970 Speaker 1: Okay. 156 00:08:40,230 --> 00:08:45,670 Speaker 3: I think I did. I did five out of six years. Oh, wow. 157 00:08:46,450 --> 00:08:51,689 Speaker 3: At that stage. I also umpired Martina Hingis' first ever 158 00:08:51,770 --> 00:08:54,709 Speaker 3: professional match, which is in Zurich when she was 14. 159 00:08:54,690 --> 00:09:00,980 Speaker 3: And I can remember then there were so many players, coaches, 160 00:09:01,270 --> 00:09:04,620 Speaker 3: tournament staff, tour staff, everybody wanted to come out and 161 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 3: see Martina. you know, what this phenom was all about. 162 00:09:08,220 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 3: And obviously she went on, she won that match. And 163 00:09:11,540 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 3: I umpired a lot of her matches, a lot of 164 00:09:13,620 --> 00:09:15,490 Speaker 3: her finals throughout her career. 165 00:09:16,090 --> 00:09:18,230 Speaker 1: So at the time, that was pretty significant that you 166 00:09:18,270 --> 00:09:21,070 Speaker 1: were a gold badge umpire because you were only one 167 00:09:21,090 --> 00:09:23,730 Speaker 1: of two women who were at that level at that time. 168 00:09:23,790 --> 00:09:26,150 Speaker 1: And you've told us that kind of maybe you didn't 169 00:09:26,330 --> 00:09:28,290 Speaker 1: recognise the significance of that at the time, but now 170 00:09:28,330 --> 00:09:30,030 Speaker 1: that you think about it, that actually was a really 171 00:09:30,070 --> 00:09:30,390 Speaker 1: big deal. 172 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,079 Speaker 3: It was, and I think coming into officiating, obviously there 173 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:40,980 Speaker 3: were a handful of high-profile female role models in tennis officiating, 174 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,830 Speaker 3: but there were certainly a lot more males compared to females. 175 00:09:46,050 --> 00:09:49,910 Speaker 3: It was tough, and especially breaking through to umpiring men's 176 00:09:49,950 --> 00:09:53,410 Speaker 3: matches as a female, there were really, really not that 177 00:09:53,490 --> 00:09:59,270 Speaker 3: many of us. So it was tough to break through. 178 00:10:00,140 --> 00:10:04,100 Speaker 3: We found it very different being females umpiring men's matches 179 00:10:04,140 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 3: compared to women's matches. And sometimes, funnily enough, some of 180 00:10:10,350 --> 00:10:13,510 Speaker 3: the tougher male players, maybe sort of lower ranked or 181 00:10:13,550 --> 00:10:19,410 Speaker 3: challenger players, responded differently and may I say even possibly 182 00:10:19,470 --> 00:10:22,569 Speaker 3: better behaved when there were females in the chair, which 183 00:10:22,610 --> 00:10:26,250 Speaker 3: is always quite interesting. And when I look back now, 184 00:10:26,910 --> 00:10:32,770 Speaker 3: I'm very, very proud of that achievement, hopefully forging the 185 00:10:32,820 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 3: way for female officials and giving upcoming female officials somebody 186 00:10:37,580 --> 00:10:42,020 Speaker 3: to look up to. One of my passions now is 187 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 3: mentoring and helping other officials because I know when I 188 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:51,070 Speaker 3: came through, I had some outstanding women, Georgina Clark, who 189 00:10:51,110 --> 00:10:55,530 Speaker 3: was a former long-time WTA supervisor and a chair umpire 190 00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:58,910 Speaker 3: prior to that. Also Pat Walker, who was from New 191 00:10:58,950 --> 00:11:01,410 Speaker 3: South Wales, who was originally a chair umpire and then 192 00:11:01,450 --> 00:11:04,929 Speaker 3: she was the chief umpire at the time when we 193 00:11:05,130 --> 00:11:08,650 Speaker 3: all started officiating. She was very much an advocate of 194 00:11:09,290 --> 00:11:13,830 Speaker 3: giving young officials an opportunity and giving other females opportunities. 195 00:11:14,470 --> 00:11:17,890 Speaker 3: In one of my roles at WTA tournaments, I have 196 00:11:17,929 --> 00:11:24,710 Speaker 3: the wonderful job of fulfilling ticket requests. Yay. So about 197 00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:27,790 Speaker 3: 20 years ago, I was doing the ticketing for Indian 198 00:11:27,850 --> 00:11:31,540 Speaker 3: Wells and we had a request from our then COO 199 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 3: for some of his family, which included a young 12-year-old 200 00:11:35,940 --> 00:11:39,860 Speaker 3: girl by the name of Madison Shoemaker. Anyway, so I 201 00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:43,670 Speaker 3: met Scott and Marion, the parents, and Maddie and her 202 00:11:43,710 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 3: brother and And apparently after we'd been chatting for a bit, 203 00:11:48,100 --> 00:11:50,220 Speaker 3: she turned around to a person and said, I want 204 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:54,100 Speaker 3: to be like her. So she remembers my walkie talkie 205 00:11:54,140 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 3: and my credential and everything. Anyway, she went on to 206 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,270 Speaker 3: play collegiate tennis, went on to become an intern with 207 00:11:59,290 --> 00:12:02,450 Speaker 3: the WTA and has held a number of roles within 208 00:12:02,470 --> 00:12:07,990 Speaker 3: the WTA rankings coordinator, tour operations. Last weekend, she passed 209 00:12:08,070 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 3: her silver badge referee school and is now a WTA supervisor. Oh, wow. 210 00:12:14,420 --> 00:12:19,190 Speaker 3: That's probably my most prolific story, especially somebody so young 211 00:12:19,290 --> 00:12:22,810 Speaker 3: to see, you know, a female role model in the 212 00:12:22,850 --> 00:12:26,350 Speaker 3: sport that she loves. And she, you know, took her 213 00:12:26,350 --> 00:12:29,750 Speaker 3: 20 years, but she's achieved her dream. And I could 214 00:12:29,830 --> 00:12:32,390 Speaker 3: not be more proud. It's amazing. Congratulations. 215 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: Is it that diversity or is there something else that 216 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 1: makes it so special that has kept you in the 217 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: role for so long? Because clearly it has been really rewarding. 218 00:12:40,010 --> 00:12:44,590 Speaker 3: It's the opportunity, I think, for me now, particularly the 219 00:12:44,630 --> 00:12:48,829 Speaker 3: longer I'm involved, to feel as though you're helping to 220 00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:51,830 Speaker 3: make a difference. Because all of the players who are 221 00:12:51,850 --> 00:12:54,910 Speaker 3: competing now on the WTA Tour, I've known since they 222 00:12:54,970 --> 00:12:58,590 Speaker 3: started their journey on the Tour. And when players first 223 00:12:58,690 --> 00:13:02,309 Speaker 3: come to play at Tour level, I think one of 224 00:13:02,510 --> 00:13:07,250 Speaker 3: the biggest responsibilities we have is educating them on the rules, 225 00:13:07,390 --> 00:13:11,550 Speaker 3: on the procedures. you know, feeling that it's a safe 226 00:13:11,610 --> 00:13:16,670 Speaker 3: space to walk into the WTA office, that we're not scary. Yes, 227 00:13:16,890 --> 00:13:19,469 Speaker 3: sometimes we have to make tough decisions or decisions that 228 00:13:19,530 --> 00:13:23,550 Speaker 3: individual players don't necessarily agree with, particularly around scheduling. 229 00:13:24,390 --> 00:13:30,630 Speaker 4: However, we need to, you know, fulfil a lot of 230 00:13:30,670 --> 00:13:35,429 Speaker 4: different requests, particularly in scheduling between the players, the tournaments, 231 00:13:35,809 --> 00:13:38,070 Speaker 4: international broadcast, domestic broadcast, etc. 232 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:45,219 Speaker 3: And also look to schedule with parity and looking at 233 00:13:45,260 --> 00:13:51,890 Speaker 3: the overall tournament. Yeah, but again, forming, you know, meaningful 234 00:13:53,090 --> 00:13:59,750 Speaker 3: working relationships with players, coaches and their players' support teams 235 00:13:59,850 --> 00:14:04,569 Speaker 3: and just feeling like you're helping, you share their, you 236 00:14:04,590 --> 00:14:09,300 Speaker 3: witness their joys and their celebrations and You're there also 237 00:14:09,380 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 3: at times when they have disappointments, whether it's through loss 238 00:14:13,420 --> 00:14:17,260 Speaker 3: or injury. But just to be able to feel like 239 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,700 Speaker 3: we're helping similarly with the tournaments because we service the 240 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,890 Speaker 3: tournaments as well. Part of our responsibility is to share 241 00:14:24,990 --> 00:14:28,170 Speaker 3: best practices. If we see something that a tournament does 242 00:14:28,270 --> 00:14:32,550 Speaker 3: really well that we think another tournament could learn from, 243 00:14:33,170 --> 00:14:39,050 Speaker 3: then we're coming forth with suggestions. We're writing... lengthy reports 244 00:14:39,090 --> 00:14:45,229 Speaker 3: at the end of the tournament with player feedback, staff feedback. So, yeah, 245 00:14:45,330 --> 00:14:47,530 Speaker 3: every day is different. Every week is different. We start 246 00:14:47,550 --> 00:14:50,310 Speaker 3: off with a template that we follow so we know, 247 00:14:50,330 --> 00:14:53,119 Speaker 3: you know, every tournament has a certain draw size, a 248 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 3: certain schedule, timings that you adhere to, whether it be 249 00:14:57,860 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 3: the sign-ins, the start of play, start of different sessions, 250 00:15:02,820 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 3: and then it culminates with the finals at the end 251 00:15:05,860 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 3: of the week. So you sort of go on this 252 00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:13,020 Speaker 3: bit of a rollercoaster journey, particularly at the slams too, 253 00:15:13,060 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 3: being there, you know, three, three and a half weeks. 254 00:15:16,330 --> 00:15:20,870 Speaker 3: For me, there's that incredible buzz and excitement, day one, 255 00:15:20,970 --> 00:15:24,790 Speaker 3: main draw of a Grand Slam, but it never gets old. 256 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,540 Speaker 3: But I also still love the travel. Going to new places. Yeah. 257 00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 3: Oftentimes we'll go back to the same places year after 258 00:15:34,180 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 3: year after year, which is something that for many tournaments 259 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 3: they love having the continuity of the same supervisor. But 260 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,700 Speaker 3: also if I'm going back to the same tournament, I 261 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 3: know who to go to to get things done. I 262 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 3: know who's responsible for the locker rooms, the transport, the accreditation, 263 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 3: et cetera, who to go to with a specific issue. And, 264 00:15:58,900 --> 00:16:01,580 Speaker 3: you know, we almost become part of the tournament team 265 00:16:01,620 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 3: for that week. 266 00:16:02,820 --> 00:16:06,130 Speaker 2: Do you have favourite places to travel or favourite tournaments? 267 00:16:06,970 --> 00:16:12,010 Speaker 3: I certainly do. My favourite places to travel are Paris 268 00:16:12,110 --> 00:16:12,729 Speaker 3: and New York. 269 00:16:13,210 --> 00:16:13,690 Speaker 2: Great cities. 270 00:16:14,070 --> 00:16:16,770 Speaker 3: Don't ask me to choose between the two because that's 271 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:22,780 Speaker 3: almost impossible. In terms of favourite tournaments and destinations as well, 272 00:16:22,940 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 3: on the tour, Dubai and Indian Wells. two of my 273 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 3: favorite spots. Indian Wells, if you've ever been there, you know, 274 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,100 Speaker 3: the desert, a couple of hours from LA, surrounded by 275 00:16:35,220 --> 00:16:38,540 Speaker 3: snow-capped mountains and palm trees. And there's just this feeling 276 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 3: of serenity out there. And I think that transcends into 277 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:47,830 Speaker 3: the tournament itself. Dubai, I love the city. I love 278 00:16:47,850 --> 00:16:54,090 Speaker 3: the phenomenal level of service anywhere you go. The hotel 279 00:16:54,170 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 3: is on site. So no transport needed to get to work, 280 00:16:59,020 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 3: just walk past the duck pond in the morning. Um, 281 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,490 Speaker 3: so I mean, every, every tournament I'm, I went back 282 00:17:06,590 --> 00:17:10,430 Speaker 3: to Rome this year for the first time in 21 years. Um, 283 00:17:10,609 --> 00:17:13,150 Speaker 3: so it was great to see how that had, had 284 00:17:13,190 --> 00:17:17,490 Speaker 3: changed in some aspects and some areas that had not 285 00:17:17,550 --> 00:17:22,990 Speaker 3: changed at all. So, um, Yeah, I love the variety of, 286 00:17:23,630 --> 00:17:29,060 Speaker 3: and for me also there's that finite start and finish 287 00:17:29,460 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 3: of a tournament. So when you do conclude the event, 288 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,270 Speaker 3: it's like, you know, hopefully job well done, move on 289 00:17:36,330 --> 00:17:38,869 Speaker 3: to the next one. Although in saying that, I'm already 290 00:17:39,210 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 3: in preparation mode. I'm currently working on Brisbane, AO, Dubai 291 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:45,860 Speaker 3: and Indian Wells for next year. 292 00:17:46,350 --> 00:17:46,750 Speaker 2: Oh, wow. 293 00:17:46,830 --> 00:17:49,669 Speaker 3: And then in January, well, next month I'll start working. 294 00:17:49,730 --> 00:17:51,570 Speaker 3: I'm going back to Berlin for the first time in 295 00:17:51,630 --> 00:17:55,869 Speaker 3: more than 20 years. So excited to go there. Already 296 00:17:55,930 --> 00:18:01,419 Speaker 3: started some discussions around Roland Garros. Yeah, so it's continuous. 297 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 3: Amazing advice. 298 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,659 Speaker 2: Now you are famous for your shoe collection. 299 00:18:07,020 --> 00:18:10,450 Speaker 3: Can we talk about your shoes, please? Of course you can. 300 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,900 Speaker 3: This is something that started quite a while back. I'm 301 00:18:13,980 --> 00:18:18,700 Speaker 3: one of these people, I either post something fun, post 302 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,020 Speaker 3: something nice or don't post anything at all. And I 303 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,340 Speaker 3: do have a love of shoes. So I would often 304 00:18:25,420 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 3: take a photo of my shoes after I'd unpacked them, 305 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,980 Speaker 3: lined up in the hotel room. And for example, these 306 00:18:33,070 --> 00:18:36,830 Speaker 3: are the successful shoes that have been chosen for the 307 00:18:36,830 --> 00:18:42,510 Speaker 3: 2025 Australian Open or something silly like that. So then 308 00:18:43,109 --> 00:18:44,629 Speaker 3: that sort of take it off. And I'll get to 309 00:18:44,690 --> 00:18:46,929 Speaker 3: tournaments sometimes and friends will say to me, where's your 310 00:18:46,970 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 3: shoe photo? I haven't seen your shoe photo online yet. 311 00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:55,260 Speaker 3: Or I've seen other friends, often male, who might post 312 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,419 Speaker 3: a photo of their, you know, three pairs of shoes 313 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:03,590 Speaker 3: that they're bringing to the tournament. And I've got about 12. Yeah, 314 00:19:03,730 --> 00:19:07,169 Speaker 3: I am trying to... it'd be a bit more cognizant 315 00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:10,929 Speaker 3: of what I'm packing and, and, you know, trying to 316 00:19:10,990 --> 00:19:13,510 Speaker 3: scale down a little bit, but it doesn't always happen. 317 00:19:13,570 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 3: I like being, if I'm at a tournament for two 318 00:19:15,910 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 3: weeks or three weeks, I like to have options. Absolutely. 319 00:19:20,020 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 320 00:19:20,340 --> 00:19:22,179 Speaker 3: Plus dry cleaning is very expensive. 321 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:22,540 Speaker 4: So. 322 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,300 Speaker 2: Also your, your shoe fans would be very disappointed. 323 00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 324 00:19:26,859 --> 00:19:29,419 Speaker 1: They don't want to be seeing the shoe collection whittling down. 325 00:19:29,830 --> 00:19:33,100 Speaker 3: I am one of those fans. It's funny. And again, 326 00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:36,540 Speaker 3: sometimes you just need to have a sense of humor 327 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:43,190 Speaker 3: about different things. And we're not saving lives, but we 328 00:19:43,230 --> 00:19:45,649 Speaker 3: sometimes are doing things that are very, very serious. And 329 00:19:45,670 --> 00:19:49,129 Speaker 3: we certainly take our role serious. But if you can 330 00:19:49,170 --> 00:19:52,369 Speaker 3: have a little bit of fun along the way, then 331 00:19:52,410 --> 00:19:52,830 Speaker 3: why not? 332 00:19:53,570 --> 00:19:56,550 Speaker 1: What makes the cut on finals day? Like is there 333 00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:58,590 Speaker 1: the shoe that's like the special occasion shoe or the 334 00:19:58,609 --> 00:19:59,930 Speaker 1: big match shoe? I don't know. 335 00:20:00,609 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 3: It depends what surface. Oh, of course. Yes. So, for example, 336 00:20:05,900 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 3: when working at Wimbledon as a Grand Slam supervisor, I 337 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 3: would always show my shoes to the head groundsman to 338 00:20:13,220 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 3: make sure that they were suitable. And that became a 339 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 3: little bit of a joke between us as well. Like, 340 00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:22,820 Speaker 3: you know, are these shoes okay to wear on centre court? Because, obviously, 341 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 3: you don't want to wear your stilettos and put divots 342 00:20:24,740 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 3: in the court if you have to run on the court. But, yeah, there's... 343 00:20:29,140 --> 00:20:32,620 Speaker 3: qualifying shoes, there's main draw shoes, there's final stay shoes, 344 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 3: there's black tie gala shoes, not that we go to 345 00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 3: many of them. But yeah, people are noticing that there's 346 00:20:42,220 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 3: a lot more ballet flats and sneakers coming into the 347 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:50,330 Speaker 3: collection compared to years ago. But that's the fashion though, 348 00:20:50,369 --> 00:20:51,659 Speaker 3: isn't it? Exactly. 349 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:53,530 Speaker 1: You said in terms of what you do day to day, 350 00:20:53,770 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: sometimes you get to watch a bit of tennis. We've 351 00:20:56,580 --> 00:20:58,940 Speaker 1: actually seen you on TV at courtside at some incredible 352 00:20:58,980 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: matches when you do get that little bit of time 353 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: to watch tennis. And because you've been in the sport 354 00:21:02,740 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 1: for so long, you must have seen some incredible matches 355 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,429 Speaker 1: and moments and highlights. And we're just wondering what has 356 00:21:09,490 --> 00:21:10,290 Speaker 1: stuck with you? 357 00:21:11,130 --> 00:21:15,130 Speaker 3: Oh, my goodness. If I had to think, when Pat 358 00:21:15,170 --> 00:21:22,570 Speaker 3: Rafter won his first US Open. Oh, yeah. Which was, again, 1997. 359 00:21:22,570 --> 00:21:26,449 Speaker 3: I was able to watch that as a spectator. Because 360 00:21:26,550 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 3: I knew that I had, you know, I'd umpired the 361 00:21:29,820 --> 00:21:32,740 Speaker 3: ladies final, which was before that. I've been to a 362 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,180 Speaker 3: couple of Davis Cup ties where I've had no involvement 363 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,900 Speaker 3: working and been able to watch and not, I wouldn't say, 364 00:21:40,940 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 3: you know, I don't overly support because we're just in 365 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,090 Speaker 3: the habit of not clapping and not showing emotion, but. 366 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, similar. 367 00:21:50,540 --> 00:21:55,780 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I would say I'm clapping on the inside. So, 368 00:21:55,980 --> 00:21:59,310 Speaker 3: you know, but it's very, very rare that you get 369 00:21:59,350 --> 00:22:03,890 Speaker 3: an opportunity to watch through the eyes of a spectator. 370 00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: We remember Pat's US Open win well. I remember that, 371 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,730 Speaker 1: even being late for school. mum let us stay until 372 00:22:10,750 --> 00:22:12,149 Speaker 1: the end in clinch match point. Then it was like, 373 00:22:12,170 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: right in the car, you've got to go to school. 374 00:22:13,930 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, we were allowed to watch that. It was amazing. 375 00:22:15,619 --> 00:22:16,379 Speaker 3: Fantastic. 376 00:22:16,660 --> 00:22:20,820 Speaker 2: Well, it's been an incredible career that you have constructed, Donna. 377 00:22:20,859 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 2: You must be, well, you should be so, so proud 378 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 2: of everything that you've achieved in tennis. And I imagine 379 00:22:26,460 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 2: it's one that you would recommend to other people. 380 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 3: I would certainly recommend a career in tennis, whether it's, 381 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 3: you know, as an official, as a supervisor or in 382 00:22:36,369 --> 00:22:38,730 Speaker 3: any other aspect. And I think what we're seeing too 383 00:22:38,750 --> 00:22:42,330 Speaker 3: is is that there are so many more and varied 384 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,330 Speaker 3: roles in working in tennis, you know, than there were 385 00:22:46,350 --> 00:22:49,010 Speaker 3: even if you go back, you know, 10, 20 years. 386 00:22:49,030 --> 00:22:52,550 Speaker 3: There are so many new roles for anybody who loves 387 00:22:52,609 --> 00:22:59,850 Speaker 3: the sport and particularly who loves to travel and meet people. And, yeah, highly, 388 00:22:59,930 --> 00:23:00,820 Speaker 3: highly recommended. 389 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,740 Speaker 2: Well, lots of great takeaways from that interview. One of 390 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,260 Speaker 2: them for me is I will never feel guilty about 391 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:11,350 Speaker 2: overpacking again. 392 00:23:11,609 --> 00:23:13,050 Speaker 1: Yeah, we need to take it from the best in 393 00:23:13,070 --> 00:23:16,310 Speaker 1: the business. And yeah, I think it's an outfit for 394 00:23:16,369 --> 00:23:17,930 Speaker 1: every occasion. I like Donna's advice. 395 00:23:18,170 --> 00:23:21,170 Speaker 2: You can never have too many pairs of shoes. But also, 396 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,619 Speaker 2: Donna has featured in so many memorable moments for the sport, 397 00:23:26,060 --> 00:23:30,140 Speaker 2: especially in recent women's tennis history. So wasn't it amazing 398 00:23:30,180 --> 00:23:32,219 Speaker 2: to hear some of her stories of those experiences? 399 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was so great that she's been a great 400 00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:36,950 Speaker 1: role model and inspiration to people. But one thing I 401 00:23:37,010 --> 00:23:39,369 Speaker 1: loved hearing was that just it felt fitting that her 402 00:23:39,430 --> 00:23:42,830 Speaker 1: final match in the chair as a gold badge umpire 403 00:23:42,850 --> 00:23:45,090 Speaker 1: was at her home Grand Slam in a Grand Slam final. 404 00:23:45,150 --> 00:23:46,530 Speaker 1: It's kind of like the pinnacle of umpiring. 405 00:23:46,670 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 3: So that was lovely. It is the pinnacle of umpiring. 406 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 2: And I guess it's particularly special because I think many 407 00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:55,020 Speaker 2: Australians have been inspired by Donna's path and I think 408 00:23:55,060 --> 00:23:56,900 Speaker 2: many women as well. Yeah, for sure. 409 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,660 Speaker 1: Well, we'll be back again next week with another episode 410 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,540 Speaker 1: of The Sit Down. But in the meantime, you can 411 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,870 Speaker 1: listen to John and Bree and the team this Thursday 412 00:24:04,090 --> 00:24:05,230 Speaker 1: on the AO Show Weekly. 413 00:24:05,670 --> 00:24:07,690 Speaker 2: Details for how to contact us are in the show notes. 414 00:24:07,810 --> 00:24:10,139 Speaker 2: And please subscribe, rate and review. 415 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 3: See you next week, Matt. 416 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:11,820 Speaker 2: See you then, Viv.