Speaker 1: Hello.
Speaker 2: My name is Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud Order
Speaker 2: Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we
Speaker 2: get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would
Speaker 2: like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of
Speaker 2: which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging
Speaker 2: the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through
Speaker 2: as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
Speaker 2: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
Speaker 2: and lasting impact for tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to a very different episode of She's
Speaker 1: on the Money. I'm Victory de Vine and I usually
Speaker 1: bring you all the info, tips and tricks to educate
Speaker 1: you and set you on your journey towards financial independence.
Speaker 1: But sometimes even with all the knowledge in the world
Speaker 1: and the know how and the emergency fund and the
Speaker 1: investment portfolio, things just don't go to plan. This is
Speaker 1: exactly what happened to Tracy Hall in twenty sixteen. Tracy
Speaker 1: signed up to a little dating app after separating from
Speaker 1: her husband. This is where she met Max ta Vita.
Speaker 1: Max was a great listener, adventurous, and came into her
Speaker 1: life at exactly the right time. That was until one
Speaker 1: day in twenty seventeen, she missed a call from Max.
Speaker 1: When she called back, no answer. The pair usually spoke
Speaker 1: several times a day, and when she didn't hear from him,
Speaker 1: she grew really worried and called the police to do
Speaker 1: a welfare check on him. After she placed the call,
Speaker 1: she received a message from a friend telling her to
Speaker 1: check out a link to a video and call her
Speaker 1: straight away. That moment is when Tracy's life turned upside down. Tracy, Hello,
Speaker 1: Hi Rick, Tracy's joined us in the studio to share
Speaker 1: her story. Welcome to She's on the Money. Thank you
Speaker 1: for having me. I'm low key very excited about this
Speaker 1: story because it's a little bit of a different twist
Speaker 1: on She's on the Money. But let's start at the
Speaker 1: very start. How'd you meet Max? Like you said, I
Speaker 1: had separated from my husband about a year before, and
Speaker 1: I decided that I was ready to meet someone. I
Speaker 1: wanted some companionship in my life, someone to do the
Speaker 1: things that I like doing, with similar interests and values
Speaker 1: and morals, and so I decided to go on the
Speaker 1: dating apps. I met my husband on a dating app, so, like,
Speaker 1: there are some good stories on that when you're a
Speaker 1: bit nervy, like coming out of a marriage and going
Speaker 1: on a dating app. Because when I met my husband,
Speaker 1: dating apps didn't exist. No, it would have been in
Speaker 1: your world. Yeah, it was a whole new world. And
Speaker 1: obviously I was in my early forties, so it was
Speaker 1: just a bit. It doesn't look like you're in your
Speaker 1: early forties, so you want a dating app, you would
Speaker 1: have been hot property. I reckon. Did you go on
Speaker 1: a few dates before meeting Max or yeah? A few?
Speaker 1: It was fun. I mean it was slim Pickings and
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a jungle, so it's wild out there.
Speaker 1: It is pretty crazy, and my friends and I had
Speaker 1: you know, we got some great content. We had a
Speaker 1: few laughs, and you know, they were following along my journey.
Speaker 1: But I guess I knew that, yeah, I did. You know.
Speaker 1: I knew that I wasn't going to meet some great guy,
Speaker 1: you know, if I was sitting in front of my
Speaker 1: TV on a Monday night, So it was the only
Speaker 1: way I was going to meet someone. And I swiped
Speaker 1: right on Max and he looked pretty normal compared to
Speaker 1: some of the other looking guys, and for a little
Speaker 1: dream He had a beautiful smile and blue eyes, and
Speaker 1: his photos were just things he liked doing, like surfing
Speaker 1: and running and paddle boarding and things like that. So
Speaker 1: I just thought he looked pretty normal, sounds like a
Speaker 1: dream boat. So that's what drew you to him, Like,
Speaker 1: you went on a date, How did it go after that? Well,
Speaker 1: it took us a while to go on a date
Speaker 1: because I sort of was on a limited schedule because
Speaker 1: I was a single mom. And we went on a date.
Speaker 1: We went for dinner and it was pretty low key.
Speaker 1: It was not a very long dinner. He didn't really drink.
Speaker 1: I was working really long hours at the time, and
Speaker 1: I was quite tired. I think I yawned at one point,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, which is awful, is what it is.
Speaker 1: Awful behavior. But he said, oh, you look really tired.
Speaker 1: I'll get you home. And he was just really caring
Speaker 1: and he was a great listener. He was very engaging.
Speaker 1: He was funny, kind of like an Aussie Larakan in
Speaker 1: a way. We had a similar upbringing in Australia, so
Speaker 1: we had a lot in common. It sounds like a
Speaker 1: dream so far. Like it was pretty I mean, as
Speaker 1: far as first dates went, it was pretty good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: no good, he got you home, you were tired, amazing.
Speaker 2: Ye.
Speaker 1: Were there any red flags at all? I mean throughout
Speaker 1: the time we dated, Yes, of course, But because I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm the kind of girl like I went
Speaker 1: on a few dates before meeting Steve, and like there'd
Speaker 1: be red flags that whenever real red flags, I just
Speaker 1: think they were because you know, you're being quite picky
Speaker 1: at the very start. Yeah, you're watching out for those things.
Speaker 1: Like he came to pick me up in the city
Speaker 1: and he didn't want to double park or park in
Speaker 1: the no parking zone and come in and meet the
Speaker 1: friend I was having a drink with after work because
Speaker 1: of the parking situation. But when we got to the restaurant,
Speaker 1: he parked in a no parking zone and he was like,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, I'll just pay the fine. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but ten minutes ago, like this in my head, I'm like,
Speaker 1: ten minutes ago, you didn't even want to come in
Speaker 1: and meet my friend. Oh, that's really weird. So it
Speaker 1: was just weird, But at the time, you know, things
Speaker 1: move on really quickly, and you just kind of like
Speaker 1: people do weird things anyway, Like I would do things
Speaker 1: on a first date that people might think of strange,
Speaker 1: and sometimes I'm just weird. Like you've got to balance
Speaker 1: it out. Everyone's got their own cooks, So you go
Speaker 1: all right, moving on. And I was like, it's your cart,
Speaker 1: it's your license, is your money. That's really it's okay,
Speaker 1: so nice. So all of it was going really well.
Speaker 1: You were dating for a while. Obviously you know there
Speaker 1: are some red flags, but nothing to kind of like
Speaker 1: draw so much attention that you need to like get
Speaker 1: a private investigator on your new boyfriend, right and suspect anything. No, no,
Speaker 1: of course not. And then you got a miss call.
Speaker 1: You'd flown back from a trip to Byron Bay and
Speaker 1: he was driving back down. But after you received the
Speaker 1: missed call from him, you didn't hear from him again.
Speaker 1: What happened that day, Well, this was nearly eighteen months
Speaker 1: after we first started going out, and I spent the
Speaker 1: whole day trying to get in touch with him, and
Speaker 1: there was no answer, and I started to get really
Speaker 1: worried and spent the night looking for people he knew,
Speaker 1: his family, trying to get in touch with him, and
Speaker 1: I woke up super early the next morning and I
Speaker 1: called Bondi Police because I hadn't heard from him, and
Speaker 1: I would honest, yeah, it's eighteen months, like I know
Speaker 1: that if you're like twenty eighteen months feels like forever,
Speaker 1: like when you're a single mum as well. That's a
Speaker 1: serious relationship. Was a serious relationship. We were very close,
Speaker 1: we were very intimate, and we'd just been away for
Speaker 1: a weekend and it was just very very unusual. We
Speaker 1: spoke multiple times a day, like either text or what's
Speaker 1: up or whatever, and I didn't hear from him. So
Speaker 1: I asked Bondi Police to do a wellness check on him.
Speaker 1: Gave them all the details of him, and in the meantime,
Speaker 1: I received a call from a girlfriend of mine and
Speaker 1: she said, how are you? And I said, haven't slept
Speaker 1: a wink. Something's happened to Max. I'm really worried. I
Speaker 1: don't know what's happened. I haven't heard from him. And
Speaker 1: she said, I'm going to send you a link and
Speaker 1: I said, oh my god, he's dead. There's been an accident.
Speaker 1: He's accident link or something or like a shark attack
Speaker 1: or he's been like, something's happened while he's been so good.
Speaker 1: I would have felt so sick. I felt ill, and
Speaker 1: she said, he's not dead. Just opened the link and
Speaker 1: called me straight back. And I opened the link and
Speaker 1: it was the video of him being arrested outside of
Speaker 1: his apartment and his face was all blurred out, but
Speaker 1: of course I knew it was his body. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you know his apartment. I knew it was him. And
Speaker 1: that's when the world turned upside down for me. That's insane.
Speaker 1: So when you saw that video and you finally saw
Speaker 1: a crime stoppers video and realized that was your boyfriend,
Speaker 1: were you like, what the hell? Obviously you had no
Speaker 1: idea what's he being arrested for? Like what conclusions did
Speaker 1: you jump to it that? Well, the headlines were, you know,
Speaker 1: Bondai businessman forty seven, superannuation fraud with these types of
Speaker 1: broad headlines, and I was like that, it's this must
Speaker 1: be something wrong because Max is forty two. You know.
Speaker 1: These were the weird things that were going on my
Speaker 1: head because I was like, he's wrong like that at
Speaker 1: some point. How dramatic, Yeah, just so bizarre. And I
Speaker 1: called back Bondi police and I said, you don't need
Speaker 1: to do a wellness check. The man that lives at
Speaker 1: that address has been arrested. And they said, yes, we know,
Speaker 1: but the person who lives there, his age, he's everything
Speaker 1: about that man is not the man who lives at
Speaker 1: that address. And I said, but it is, because who
Speaker 1: you're looking forward to, Racy, And he said the policeman said,
Speaker 1: it's not that person, it's a different person. I said, well,
Speaker 1: who is it? What's it? You know, what's his name?
Speaker 1: And they said, you need to deal with investigators that
Speaker 1: are on the case. And they couldn't tell you any information.
Speaker 1: So you've just found out that your boyfriend isn't who
Speaker 1: you thought he was, and you're on the phone to
Speaker 1: someone who's like, yeah, also, Tracy, I'm not telling you.
Speaker 1: You can go find out from someone else. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of a legal case at that point,
Speaker 1: so you know they understand. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: your shell shot. Yeah, my brain was just going crazy.
Speaker 1: And then not long after, I received a text from
Speaker 1: his brother in law, who I'd been trying to get
Speaker 1: in touch with, and it's said in the text, Tracy
Speaker 1: called me on this number urgently. Chris and brackets he
Speaker 1: wrote Hamish's brother in law and I called him immediately
Speaker 1: and I said, Chris, who the fuck is Hamish? And
Speaker 1: he said Hamish McLaren And I said, well, who is
Speaker 1: Max Tavita? What is going on?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: And I've heard of Hamish No, And of course, armed
Speaker 1: with his real name, I could look on the internet
Speaker 1: and find out everything about him. Oh my god, this
Speaker 1: is wild, and I know it actually gets juicier. So
Speaker 1: let's go to a really quick break and on the
Speaker 1: flip side, we're going to hear more about Tracy's guard
Speaker 1: reaching story. Welcome back to today's very special and very different
Speaker 1: episode of She's on the Money without very special guest
Speaker 1: Tracy Hall. Now Tracy. After a call to the police
Speaker 1: asking for a welfare check on your boyfriend, finding out
Speaker 1: that he wasn't who he said he was, You've got
Speaker 1: this video of your boyfriend being arrested. You got a
Speaker 1: text message from a brother in law stating that your
Speaker 1: boyfriend's name was actually Hamish and not Max. Where's your
Speaker 1: head at? I don't know? It was doing circles. And
Speaker 1: I then had a conversation with the investigators who were
Speaker 1: working on the case, who could confirm that Max Stevita
Speaker 1: was in fact Hamish McLaren, and he had defrauded multiple
Speaker 1: people out of a lot of money, and that I
Speaker 1: needed to get to the police station immediately. Now, if
Speaker 1: somebody called me and said, Victoria, your husband has defrauded
Speaker 1: multiple people, I would deny till I die. Like I'd
Speaker 1: immediately be like absolutely not, Like that is not the person.
Speaker 1: I know, that is not what happened, Like I would
Speaker 1: die on that hill, Like I just unequivocally know that.
Speaker 1: I would immediately go. I don't know, faced with some proof,
Speaker 1: I think I'd just be in a whirlwind of confusion.
Speaker 1: What did you do next? I was in a cafe
Speaker 1: with a girlfriend. My head was spinning, and I was
Speaker 1: looking up who Hamish McLaren was on the internet, And
Speaker 1: prior to even this case and this arrest, there was
Speaker 1: a lot of misconduct over a long period of time,
Speaker 1: and there had been a lot written about him, and
Speaker 1: so armed with his name, I could look at these
Speaker 1: articles on the Internet and start to realize pretty quickly
Speaker 1: that I was dealing with something way worse than when
Speaker 1: I originally thought. And so that's when I just went
Speaker 1: straight to the detectives and I sat down with them,
Speaker 1: and they explained things to me very broadly, like I
Speaker 1: didn't know how many victims there were, I didn't know
Speaker 1: how much money. But they asked me to gather all
Speaker 1: of my information, and I literally had to put together
Speaker 1: nearly eighteen months of my life that had happened, every statement,
Speaker 1: every email, every room wants up message, yeah, every memory,
Speaker 1: every document he had ever provided me, every everything. And I
Speaker 1: had to work with them over the next ensuing weeks
Speaker 1: to kind of put together that puzzle and explain to
Speaker 1: them how Hamish had sort of deceived me. And that's
Speaker 1: when I started to realize that he had stolen my
Speaker 1: life savings. He'd stolen three hundred and seventy thousand dollars
Speaker 1: of your money?
Speaker 4: Is that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Everything? Absolutely everything. How was your mental health throughout this?
Speaker 1: Because I can just imagine being told, as I said before,
Speaker 1: I'd be denied till I die. But then you get
Speaker 1: like confronted with some facts. Yeah, and I feel like
Speaker 1: you have to flip the narrative and go hold on,
Speaker 1: I think these guys are correct. Did you hear from
Speaker 1: Hamish slash Max?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I did. He had called me from jail a few
Speaker 1: times and then he sent me some letters that was
Speaker 1: in sort of the two to six months after he
Speaker 1: was arrested, So that went on for quite a while.
Speaker 1: But I pretty quickly realized that I was never going
Speaker 1: to get the truth from him. It was all just
Speaker 1: a I don't know, like a three hundred and seventeen
Speaker 1: thousand dollar carrot that he was dangling in front of
Speaker 1: my face to get me to go and see him.
Speaker 1: And I was never going to see that money again.
Speaker 1: I was never going to get the truth from him.
Speaker 1: So I decided never to do that. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: think you sound so level headed, like you sound so
Speaker 1: well rounded talking about this, because I think I would
Speaker 1: have gone into a spin, like if you've got three
Speaker 1: hundred and seventeen thousand dollars of my money, I'll go
Speaker 1: see you, I'll work it out, like how did you
Speaker 1: work out what to do? And it sounds like you've
Speaker 1: done absolutely everything right. I'd be the person that did
Speaker 1: it wrong, Like I would be going to jail and
Speaker 1: being like what did you do? Please tell me, and
Speaker 1: like probably believing parts of it. I was so tempted,
Speaker 1: because of course I was thinking that maybe there's just
Speaker 1: a way that I can get a piece of information
Speaker 1: or he can tell me how to get my money back.
Speaker 1: It was so tempting, of course, but I mean, I
Speaker 1: just had to look at the facts and look at
Speaker 1: the past sixteen months of my life and my relationship
Speaker 1: with him, and know very quickly that everything was just
Speaker 1: a lie, that why would he suddenly start telling me
Speaker 1: the truth? And I just had to work with what
Speaker 1: I had. I had to face the facts. I was
Speaker 1: kind of dealing with this sort of duel thing. So
Speaker 1: there was like all of the very practical things that
Speaker 1: I had to do, working with the police, untangling a
Speaker 1: non compliance superannuation fund, looking at a tax refund that
Speaker 1: may or may not have been fraudulent, you know, pulling
Speaker 1: together all of this information, and then of course I
Speaker 1: had all of the very emotional things to deal with,
Speaker 1: which was essentially this man that I've been in love with.
Speaker 1: I had to fall out of love with him in
Speaker 1: like a hot minute, like less than twenty four hours,
Speaker 1: and it was like a death. So I was grieving
Speaker 1: a relationship. But then I felt bad for grieving a
Speaker 1: relationship because he was a con man and it wasn't
Speaker 1: a real relationship. And then of course I had my
Speaker 1: daughter to like life just had to carry on, and
Speaker 1: I had a job, and I thank my lucky stars
Speaker 1: that I had that job because it is what pulled
Speaker 1: me out. And I think my lucky stars I had
Speaker 1: my daughter because she's what pulled me out as well.
Speaker 1: My god, so you're three hundred and seventeen thousand dollars down.
Speaker 1: I'm an ex financial advisor and this just sends me
Speaker 1: into a spin. I know that Hamish McLaren is responsible
Speaker 1: for stealing millions of dollars from people, but even to
Speaker 1: get your hands on three hundred and seventeen thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: how did that eventuate? Because you are a smart woman,
Speaker 1: You've clearly got your head screwed on, and to be honest,
Speaker 1: you're dealing with this at this point way better than
Speaker 1: I ever would have. So how does he get his
Speaker 1: dirty little mits on your money? It was the way
Speaker 1: I explain it. It's like he created a movie. So
Speaker 1: he created this life over a period of eighteen months
Speaker 1: or nearly eighteen months, where there were sets, there were scenes,
Speaker 1: there were characters that he created to present himself as
Speaker 1: a chief financial investment officer for a family office. I
Speaker 1: overheard conversations, there were the Bloomberg monitors. There were the
Speaker 1: fake reports, there were the investment accounts. He set this
Speaker 1: whole world up for me to believe that he was
Speaker 1: who he actually was. And this is what course of
Speaker 1: control and grooming looks like in this situation. And by
Speaker 1: the time it got to sort of a year down
Speaker 1: the track and he was asking me about my superannuation
Speaker 1: and what I was doing and how much I was
Speaker 1: paying in fees, everything that he had said to me
Speaker 1: previously was lining up, and I thought he was the
Speaker 1: perfect person to help me invest Why wouldn't my money exactly?
Speaker 1: And it's kind of like if someone says to me,
Speaker 1: I've worked in marketing for twenty five years, someone says
Speaker 1: to me they've got a small business, and they go,
Speaker 1: you know, I need to help with this, or what
Speaker 1: would you do here? People would listen to me, because
Speaker 1: you know, the difference is I don't have ill intent.
Speaker 1: But he presented himself as someone who wanted to help
Speaker 1: me be more financially independent. This was his line of work.
Speaker 1: I'd overheard countless conversations, so by the time we got
Speaker 1: to that point, there was not a shadow of a
Speaker 1: doubt in my mind that he was the right person
Speaker 1: to do that. So he convinced me to set up
Speaker 1: a self managed super fund, and he groomed me through
Speaker 1: that whole process, and I took my twenty two year
Speaker 1: career superannuation savings and funds into out of my fund
Speaker 1: and into a self managed super fund. And then there
Speaker 1: were some other things like shares, and I'd work for
Speaker 1: tech for a long time, US tech companies, and he
Speaker 1: had every commentary about you know, Trump's antics and how
Speaker 1: that was going to impact the US economy and that's
Speaker 1: why I should take my shares out right now and
Speaker 1: do this. So he just groomed me through the whole process, really,
Speaker 1: and I trusted him. I loved him. I thought were
Speaker 1: building a future together. Wouldn't you? Why wouldn't I didn't
Speaker 1: suspect anything. And that's how, in the end, how he
Speaker 1: got my life savings. And it's one of those things
Speaker 1: where so many people will think that could never happen
Speaker 1: to me, Like they get on their high horses and say, nah,
Speaker 1: like that's so dumb, like how could she believe that?
Speaker 1: But I'm not saying it's easy, But those things make sense,
Speaker 1: Like if you've got a couple of hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: Even if you google it, you go what should I
Speaker 1: do with this self managed super fund? Like basically everything
Speaker 1: he would have been telling you. You could have looked
Speaker 1: up and been like, Okay, well that seems like a
Speaker 1: logical step. Like a self managed throuper fund. Yep, they
Speaker 1: get a little bit more control. I get to do
Speaker 1: ABCND all right, no worries, what are you doing with
Speaker 1: my shares? Okay?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like the dude has a Bloomberg monitor up and you're
Speaker 1: seeing this. I think that the best description that you've
Speaker 1: given it is like that movie. Like he's setting all
Speaker 1: these scenes so that you remember them hystorically, and that
Speaker 1: just plays into that level of trust you have for
Speaker 1: this individual. It's manipulative, it's gas lighting, but on steroids. Yes,
Speaker 1: like to me, this definitely could happen to you. Can
Speaker 1: you tell me before we get into I guess how
Speaker 1: to avoid it? Can you talk me through what that
Speaker 1: fallout has been like for you? Because your life savings
Speaker 1: are gone? Yeah, so of course I lost all of
Speaker 1: my life savings. I ended up in a position in
Speaker 1: my early forties where I just had my monthly income.
Speaker 1: I'm on my own, I'm a single mum, I had
Speaker 1: no backstop at home, so I just had to double down.
Speaker 1: And it's not lost on me that I had an
Speaker 1: incredible job and I'm so grateful for that. And I
Speaker 1: always say to women, especially in all the seasons of
Speaker 1: our lives, just try and have your own income. Try
Speaker 1: and hold on to work, Try and work, you know,
Speaker 1: and that gives you choices, It gives you options, it
Speaker 1: gives you some freedoms. And thank god I had that. So,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously, the financial piece was one thing. So
Speaker 1: I had to work out really quickly how I was
Speaker 1: going to rebuild financially. And my future is going to
Speaker 1: look very different to what it otherwise would have. But
Speaker 1: I worked with a financial advisor, a registered financial advisor
Speaker 1: when you could look up on as sick and actually
Speaker 1: and I did. I did all my due diligence around
Speaker 1: the person I chose, and she's wonderful and we essentially
Speaker 1: visioned my life and she said, what do you want
Speaker 1: your life to look like in two, five and ten
Speaker 1: years time? And we wrote it up on a whiteboard
Speaker 1: and she, you know, figuratively held my hand and she said,
Speaker 1: you're going to be okay. What an angel? She also
Speaker 1: what a step for you to make I feel like
Speaker 1: so many people to just buried their heads in the
Speaker 1: sand and like not trusted a thing that this woman
Speaker 1: was saying. Yeah, but I had to because my brain
Speaker 1: was not working because I was in grief, I was
Speaker 1: in shock, I was in shame and embarrassment and guilt
Speaker 1: and all of those things. And I was working really
Speaker 1: hard because I couldn't lose my job. So all of
Speaker 1: these things coupled together. I knew I had to get
Speaker 1: some support. And she was one of the people that
Speaker 1: helped me through that. And she's still my financial advisor today.
Speaker 1: I love that. A lifetime relations moving for I love
Speaker 1: her and she's just, you know, my right hand person
Speaker 1: when it comes to rebuilding my finances and asking any
Speaker 1: questions and dotting all the eyes and crossing all the teas.
Speaker 1: And I'm pretty disciplined and I'm pretty vigorous, and I
Speaker 1: just do what we say we're going to do. And
Speaker 1: then flying was a financial advisor. Yeah, so that was
Speaker 1: the fallout financially. But I do believe that if you
Speaker 1: have the right mindset, the right work ethic, you know,
Speaker 1: just the right energy about you, you can always make money.
Speaker 1: I love this. I do believe that not only rebuilt,
Speaker 1: but you're like, hey, I started from scratch a getting
Speaker 1: my forties. I was on the starting lilt an inspiring
Speaker 1: story in isolation. It's also to have been completely screwed over,
Speaker 1: Like there was the emotional side that was there's a
Speaker 1: lot of therapy that I think that you're going to
Speaker 1: need to be in for a little while. Yet there's
Speaker 1: a lot the emotional side is hardest because money you
Speaker 1: can make, but learning to trust yourself and building your
Speaker 1: own self confidence back and thinking about the world in
Speaker 1: a different way to what you always have, having that
Speaker 1: within you again and that that's been the hardest. Can
Speaker 1: we talk a little bit more about red flags? So
Speaker 1: the start, you didn't really have any, And I mean
Speaker 1: we trust people implicitly, like I know, I've got girlfriends
Speaker 1: who write people off when they're dating them because you know,
Speaker 1: they walk funny, or they said something funny, or they
Speaker 1: held their fork the wrong way. Like as women, we
Speaker 1: do some pretty rogue things while dating, and red flags
Speaker 1: can often be really red, like full crimson or we
Speaker 1: might categorize them as red flags when they're really just
Speaker 1: us getting the beige. Yeah, they're they're beige flags. But
Speaker 1: were there red flags along the way that in hindsight
Speaker 1: you look at and go I wish that I had
Speaker 1: delved a bit deeper into that. Yeah. I think it's
Speaker 1: funny the conversation around red flags, because it makes you
Speaker 1: feel like you should have seen them. No, you should.
Speaker 1: They're actually invisible flags. Right at the time, they're invisible,
Speaker 1: and it's not until you're in retrospect that you can
Speaker 1: look at them. But the red flags, I mean, definitely
Speaker 1: he was quirky, like the stories when you put them
Speaker 1: all together, even though they came in drips and jobs
Speaker 1: throughout the whole relationship. When I recount those stories in full,
Speaker 1: their crazy, like, oh my god, like I can't believe
Speaker 1: I believe them. But that's the way grooming and coursive
Speaker 1: control works. Things come. It's like death by a thousand cuts, right.
Speaker 1: But the big things were around, you know, when he
Speaker 1: presented me with these ideas about you know, investments and
Speaker 1: things like that. I'm not ashamed to admit that I
Speaker 1: didn't think critically enough. I trusted him. I believed he
Speaker 1: had my best interests at heart. But what I've realized
Speaker 1: is that you know, your money and your heart are
Speaker 1: the most important things you can protect. And I probably
Speaker 1: didn't have as much agency as I do now around
Speaker 1: my money. And what I like to encourage in telling
Speaker 1: this story is like, especially for women, just leaning harder
Speaker 1: because it's not always easy, it's not always accessible. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it is hard, but it's harder losing your life savings
Speaker 1: and having to start again at forty. So learn it.
Speaker 1: Like and this way I love what you do V
Speaker 1: is like educating people around financial wellnessed financial advocacy and
Speaker 1: you know, resilience, all of those things that you're encouraging
Speaker 1: the female community that you have to lean into. I
Speaker 1: probably didn't think critically enough about them, you know, And
Speaker 1: I don't think I could have critically thought my way
Speaker 1: out of the fact the man that was spooning me
Speaker 1: at night was also plotting to destroy me. And I
Speaker 1: think that's the wildest thing. I think. We assume that
Speaker 1: we'd be able to see these things coming. And like
Speaker 1: when I asked you about red flags, I actually assumed
Speaker 1: you'd be like, no, not really, because, like you know,
Speaker 1: it was so choreographed that when it came up, well,
Speaker 1: why would that be an issue? Well, he had an
Speaker 1: answer for everything too, because of course he'd been doing
Speaker 1: this his a job. He'd be doing it for thirty years.
Speaker 1: And you do anything for thirty years, and you get
Speaker 1: get really good at it, you know. And throughout the book,
Speaker 1: I do use the red flag as a you know,
Speaker 1: just as a pullout in real time to go. You
Speaker 1: know what, if I had really thought about this, it
Speaker 1: probably would have done a side eye on it or
Speaker 1: something like that, you know, But that, of course, that's
Speaker 1: so easy to do in retrospect. But hopefully my lessons
Speaker 1: can be someone else's lessons in advance. And that's why
Speaker 1: we're bringing you on the pot and sharing this story.
Speaker 1: And I think there is this juxtaposition at play when
Speaker 1: people are in these circumstances, right because unfortunately, you're not
Speaker 1: the first person I've spoken to who has had a
Speaker 1: partner still their life savings. Honestly, not to the level
Speaker 1: of Hamish McLaren. Pretty extreme, that's very extreme, and it
Speaker 1: is a wild story, sadly true. But people go through
Speaker 1: these things, and this juxtaposition is at play because you've
Speaker 1: got the logical and then you've got the emotional and I,
Speaker 1: you know, am grasping at straws or claiming here that
Speaker 1: I'm assuming your emotional relationship with him was great, Like
Speaker 1: you're spooning this man at night, Like, how great is this.
Speaker 1: I've come out of a divorce, I've got a child.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm so happy. Yeah, And when you're in
Speaker 1: that bubble, like why would things look red? No, And
Speaker 1: we were planning on our future together. We're looking at
Speaker 1: property and Byron bay like he and I were very
Speaker 1: very close and intimate talking about our future. So it
Speaker 1: didn't feel I didn't suspec anything and it didn't feel
Speaker 1: like that. But of course you know he's kicking eye
Speaker 1: in the background. Yeah. So I know from our community,
Speaker 1: sadly that most women going through situations of coercive control
Speaker 1: and grooming they don't realize, and then when they come
Speaker 1: out the other side, or someone brings it up or
Speaker 1: they've realized themselves, there's a lot of guilt and shame
Speaker 1: that they carry around this and it actually has nothing
Speaker 1: to do with you in a way, like these are
Speaker 1: the actions of somebody else that's got nothing to do
Speaker 1: with your intelligence or your emotional intelligence or being able
Speaker 1: to read a situation like it makes you second guess
Speaker 1: yourself when you're in these circumstances, you're like, am I
Speaker 1: actually the worst judge of character in the entire world?
Speaker 1: Like am I cooked?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: What's going on here? But speaking to our community, what
Speaker 1: would you like other victims to know and to feel
Speaker 1: after hearing your story? I think in telling my story,
Speaker 1: I want people to know that doesn't how well educated
Speaker 1: you are, what family you come from, how well traveled
Speaker 1: you are, how great you think your intuition is. These
Speaker 1: things can happen to anyone. There's not one thing that
Speaker 1: someone could say to me about this experience that I
Speaker 1: haven't already said to myself in the worst possible and
Speaker 1: most disgusting, degrading way. And that is I think a
Speaker 1: natural reaction. But another part of telling this story is
Speaker 1: to release people from their shame, because if I can
Speaker 1: tell this story, and what I've realized is a lot
Speaker 1: of people have come forward to me and said that
Speaker 1: happened to me, or that happened to my parents, or
Speaker 1: I haven't told anyone about this situation. An older woman
Speaker 1: came to me, she's seventy five. She had told anybody
Speaker 1: that she'd lost her divorce settlement when she was forty,
Speaker 1: Not even her children barely knew. And she sat across
Speaker 1: the table crying, and you know, she said, I haven't
Speaker 1: told anybody, and I'm like, this, poor woman, thirty five
Speaker 1: years she's held on to that's a lot. And I
Speaker 1: know that feeling I held onto mind for just over
Speaker 1: a year before I started talking about this situation the
Speaker 1: podcast who They Were Say, Miss And you know, it
Speaker 1: wasn't until that moment that I released the shame because
Speaker 1: you know, did I want the story to own me
Speaker 1: or did I want to own the story? And for me,
Speaker 1: it was important to own this story. And I do
Speaker 1: know that there were things that I could have done differently,
Speaker 1: but to be ashamed and embarrassed about that when this
Speaker 1: is somebody who has clearly taken advantage of your kindness
Speaker 1: and your empathy and your compassion and your love, then
Speaker 1: there is nothing to be ashamed about. And I hope
Speaker 1: that just in telling my story, if anyone else has
Speaker 1: felt anything similar to this, that they can realize that
Speaker 1: as well. It's to me while that people could abuse
Speaker 1: that level of trust, like it makes me feel sick.
Speaker 1: But the best thing that's come out of this is
Speaker 1: you are now an advocate for women in situations like this,
Speaker 1: like this is now your life's work. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: mean it's cost you three hundred and seventeen thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: so it was actually a lot more expensive than just
Speaker 1: going to UNI and getting a degree and like going
Speaker 1: down the career route. Dramatic from you, but you're in
Speaker 1: this position where you're kind of releasing these women from
Speaker 1: these situations if we have been through this and we're
Speaker 1: still holding a lot of guilt and shame, or we're
Speaker 1: just not sure if we're in that situation because financially,
Speaker 1: abusive relationships are really hard to identify, and often when
Speaker 1: I speak to people, and you know, research tells us,
Speaker 1: they're very hard to identify ourselves because we don't know
Speaker 1: that that's abuse. We don't know that that's somebody grooming us,
Speaker 1: we don't know that we're in a situation where someone's
Speaker 1: using coercive control, because often it actually looks like them
Speaker 1: quote trying to look after you, caring for you. It's
Speaker 1: so nice of him to have come in and like
Speaker 1: set you up and put you in the best possible position.
Speaker 1: What a great guy. Even when friends and family might
Speaker 1: identify it and say, hey, Tracy, did you realize you
Speaker 1: are going to deny what is going on? Because at
Speaker 1: the end of the day. You know him, you trust him.
Speaker 1: They're not the ones that go home with him at night.
Speaker 1: They're not the ones that you know, roll over at
Speaker 1: three am to this, you know, gorgeous man in your bed,
Speaker 1: like what is going on? Yeah, but this is your
Speaker 1: life's work now and honestly, I'm glad to have you
Speaker 1: on my team. But talk to me about what resources
Speaker 1: exist out there for people who might suspect that they're
Speaker 1: a victim to a scammer. There are so many resources,
Speaker 1: so they're ScamWatch, dot gov, dot AU. You can go
Speaker 1: and research. The banks are putting out a lot of
Speaker 1: information at the moment, not only just on scams and fraud,
Speaker 1: but on financial abuse and coersive control in this space.
Speaker 1: ASIK have incredible resources on their website where you can
Speaker 1: look up the financial advisor that you're working with and
Speaker 1: checking their AFSL. You can tell oh, you can check
Speaker 1: whether they are actually qualified to advise you on what
Speaker 1: they're advising you on. You can see if they've got
Speaker 1: any red flags against an AMCs are all very very
Speaker 1: quick lookups. You can do a reverse image search, so
Speaker 1: you can put a photo Internet I Love twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: In some ways it's been so you can tech. If
Speaker 1: I had have done that, then Hamish McLaren would have
Speaker 1: shown up on it wouldn't have been maxed to. At
Speaker 1: the same time, why would you be looking up your partner.
Speaker 1: I know that's that side of romance fraud, but I mean,
Speaker 1: there are just so many resources that you can, you know,
Speaker 1: look at. There are domain URL lookups, so if you
Speaker 1: get what you think might be a dodgy email about
Speaker 1: a BSBN account number or something, you can look at
Speaker 1: the extension of the domain. Put it in and see
Speaker 1: when that domain has been set up. You can see
Speaker 1: what country that domain is registered in. If it's a
Speaker 1: Caribbean country, you know, somewhere where there's no tax, you
Speaker 1: could probably assume that it's a bit dodgy. And these
Speaker 1: are some really easy things you can do. I've got
Speaker 1: them all listed on my website, so people we can
Speaker 1: be putting your website in our show notes and people
Speaker 1: can go straight there because it's also a fantastic website
Speaker 1: learning more about your story about what's going on. I mean, Tracy,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I am grateful to
Speaker 1: have you on the podcast, but the reason you've come
Speaker 1: on the podcast is because you're doing the media rounds. Yes,
Speaker 1: because you have written a book. Yeah, tell us about that. Well,
Speaker 1: the book is Got the Last Victim. And I think,
Speaker 1: as we've sort of had in this conversation, it's such
Speaker 1: a nuanced story. It's so detailed, and I felt that
Speaker 1: I needed eighty thousand words to describe the insidious nature
Speaker 1: of this type of fraud so that people could really
Speaker 1: understand and try and learn from it. So I wrote
Speaker 1: a book, It's Got the Last Victim. It's about my
Speaker 1: time before, during, and after my relationship with Hamish. You know,
Speaker 1: it is not just a sad Sally story where it's
Speaker 1: it's juicy. It's juicy, it's got humor, and the final
Speaker 1: part of the book is really about how do you
Speaker 1: rebuild your life after something really traumatic happens and you
Speaker 1: don't have to lose your life savings to a comment
Speaker 1: in the way that I did. But we're all going
Speaker 1: to go through things. We're all going to have our
Speaker 1: challenges and that's where the human spirit really has to
Speaker 1: lift and we have to kind of find a way through.
Speaker 1: So I talk about how I did that as well.
Speaker 1: I am obsessed with this book. Everyone on my podcast
Speaker 1: already knows I'm a true crime girl. Like I don't
Speaker 1: want to tell people this, but like they know that
Speaker 1: I go to bed at night listening to crime podcasts. Right,
Speaker 1: I feel like that is a reflection of my instability.
Speaker 1: But we can have that conversation another day. My favorite
Speaker 1: thing is true crime. So when this Who the Hell
Speaker 1: Is Hamish podcast started coming out, I was obsessed and
Speaker 1: I remember hearing you and being like, she's so well spoken,
Speaker 1: Like obviously i'd never met you. I didn't know your
Speaker 1: story at that time. That was the first piece of
Speaker 1: content that you existed in and I just remember going wow,
Speaker 1: Like as of finance at the time, I was an advisor.
Speaker 1: I was like, this guy took her for a ride.
Speaker 1: Like how did it feel having content like that come
Speaker 1: out and you being a part of it, but it
Speaker 1: not being your story? Like I just love that you've
Speaker 1: taken it and made it positive? Yeah, because how did
Speaker 1: it feel having stuff like that come out? Because it's
Speaker 1: obviously not the positive story about you that your book is. No,
Speaker 1: And that's why I wanted to write the book as well.
Speaker 1: Because the podcast was about Hamish and uncovering the life
Speaker 1: of Hamish and all of the things he'd done that
Speaker 1: were both included in the case that was investigated in Australa,
Speaker 1: but as well as his global Shenanigan. Should we say yeah,
Speaker 1: because I didn't just like defraud a couple of people
Speaker 1: here in Australia, this guy went global. There's a lot
Speaker 1: that is being said about that. So in essence, the
Speaker 1: podcast was about Hamish and what he had done and
Speaker 1: uncovering all of that and being a part of that.
Speaker 1: I was really probably scared to do in the beginning
Speaker 1: because I was so ashamed and embarrassed about what had happened,
Speaker 1: but then realized that if in telling my story I
Speaker 1: could help someone else or uncover more of what had happened,
Speaker 1: then that was going to be positive. And then of
Speaker 1: course it took off like no Tomorrow, and then you know,
Speaker 1: the book off the back of that is really my story,
Speaker 1: And yes, Hamish is a part of my story. He's
Speaker 1: not the only thing that's ever happened to me. It
Speaker 1: won't be the last tricky thing that I go through
Speaker 1: my life, so it's just a part of it. But
Speaker 1: I really wanted to use the opportunity to educate women,
Speaker 1: especially about this type of fraud and scams and fraud
Speaker 1: more generally, because it's everywhere right now. And I think
Speaker 1: we work so hard for our money and we've got
Speaker 1: a hold onto already behind, Like as women, we're already behind.
Speaker 1: I think my favorite thing about your book is like
Speaker 1: it's awesome, it's inspiring, but obviously this was so significant
Speaker 1: and to be allowed to delve into your life, like
Speaker 1: to know what life was back before, what life was
Speaker 1: like during, and now how you've rebuilt yourself. I think
Speaker 1: that we can all take a leaf out of that
Speaker 1: book and just go Wow, if she can do it,
Speaker 1: anyone can. And I think you were saying at the
Speaker 1: start of this episode, like we can all make money,
Speaker 1: Like we can all put ourselves in the best possible position,
Speaker 1: Like we just have to pull our fingers out. And
Speaker 1: we talk a lot on this podcast about people having
Speaker 1: their heads in the sand about finance because it is overwhelming.
Speaker 1: It is really scary. Yeah, this stuff is going to
Speaker 1: stay scary until you become educated. Tracy, what's life's like
Speaker 1: today you've started to rebuild. How's your daughter? Oh, she's
Speaker 1: great because she's fourteen, so that's good time. But she's fantastic.
Speaker 1: And yeah, life's busy, there's a lot of sport, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of activities. I am doing this full time,
Speaker 1: So I'm working with corporates and writing workshops for retirees
Speaker 1: to help protect them against scams and fraud when it
Speaker 1: comes to technology. So I am just delving deep into
Speaker 1: this world and you know, working with banks and government
Speaker 1: on advocacy. Yeah, it's I'm loving it. So life is
Speaker 1: someone just come along and helped you sweep it under
Speaker 1: a rug and rebuild again. And you're like, I see that.
Speaker 1: It doesn't define me, but I found a purpose and
Speaker 1: I'm going to put so many people in a better
Speaker 1: position because of my life. I'm obsessed. Yeah, and it is.
Speaker 1: It's very purposeful. And I think sometimes we strive our
Speaker 1: whole lives to find our purpose, and when you've worked
Speaker 1: in corporate a long time, that doesn't always kind of correlate.
Speaker 1: And now I'm in a place where I can use
Speaker 1: all the skills I've built over my twenty five year
Speaker 1: career and put it to good use and hopefully help
Speaker 1: people and help make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else.
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed. I have so much gratitude for you and
Speaker 1: the work that you're doing in this space because it
Speaker 1: is so essential. I know that I'm really quickly running
Speaker 1: out of time with you. I have one last question.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit pervy. Oh okay, well you ever
Speaker 1: get back on the dating apps? Never back on the
Speaker 1: dating apps? Never, You're like, absolutely not. That didn't work
Speaker 1: out for me to start. God for life, Scar the Live.
Speaker 1: I think there are you know, some things I am
Speaker 1: happy to try again, but definitely not that. But no,
Speaker 1: I do have a beautiful man in my life. He's amazing.
Speaker 1: I've known him for twenty four years. So oh, I
Speaker 1: love the can do a proper ID check, yes check,
Speaker 1: get it, get the Hundle points of ID. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: I've known him for a long time and we were
Speaker 1: sort of bestiaes when all of this happened. So yeah,
Speaker 1: but anyway, so yeah. Isn't it funny how the world
Speaker 1: works out? It's just the universe is just finally delivering.
Speaker 1: I love this. Thank you Universe, and thank you Tracy.
Speaker 1: This story is honestly so trash, but if you have
Speaker 1: changed it into something that is aw inspiring, and I'm
Speaker 1: just so proud to get to say that I know
Speaker 1: you and we are backing absolutely everything that you do guys,
Speaker 1: if you haven't read it yet, The Last Victim is
Speaker 1: out now and I have got my hands on a
Speaker 1: few copies, so we will be announcing on socials how
Speaker 1: we're going to give those away. But if you want
Speaker 1: to go and pick one up, we will link to
Speaker 1: Tracy's website and where you can purchase it online in
Speaker 1: the show notes. Tracy, again, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: sharing your story. Thanks for having me mee. The advice
Speaker 1: shared on She's on the Money is general in nature
Speaker 1: and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's on the
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Speaker 1: relied upon to make an investment or financial decision. If
Speaker 1: you do choose to buy a financial.
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