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Speaker 1: We do know that the initial results of the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police Association member survey have been released. And joining

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Speaker 1: me live on the line right now is the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police Association President, Paul McHugh. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Paul, Morning Katie. Here are going not too.

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Speaker 1: Bad, Paul, These results, I guess can only be described

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Speaker 1: as quite damning. Now, one thousand and forty four members

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Speaker 1: took part, which is sixty five percent of the Association's members. Now,

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Speaker 1: before I actually get into the nitty gritty in this,

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Speaker 1: just explain to us what percentage of Northern Territory Police

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Speaker 1: are actually members of the Northern Territory Police Association.

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Speaker 2: R ninety eight percent. So now every one of us

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Speaker 2: worn police officers, Aboriginal community police and police auxiliaries are

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Speaker 2: members of our association.

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Speaker 1: Now, Paul, when you talk about, firstly the numbers of

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Speaker 1: people that have actually taken part in this survey, one

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Speaker 1: thousand and forty four, have you ever seen numbers like

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Speaker 1: that before?

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Speaker 2: No, for a general survey. That's certainly our highest ever return,

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Speaker 2: which is not surprising given the push from the regions

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Speaker 2: to undertake the survey, So not really surprising those numbers

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Speaker 2: there's around two thirds of our entire membership have participated

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Speaker 2: and had their say, and you know, it's certainly the

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Speaker 2: highest return we've had for a survey of his nature.

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Speaker 1: Paul, eighty percent, nearly eighty percent of respondents say they

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Speaker 1: do not have confidence in the Northern Territory Police Commissioner

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Speaker 1: Jamie Chalker, what was your reaction to that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, obviously, you know it's a very high statistic

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Speaker 2: and obviously that's certainly a concerning figure and something that

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Speaker 2: no doubt the Commissioner and the government and us need

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Speaker 2: to sit down and have a talk about. Because you know,

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Speaker 2: as I said, a vast majority of our regions were

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Speaker 2: wanting a survey undertaken. It was our duty to facilitate

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Speaker 2: that through the association. It was done independently. And of course,

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Speaker 2: not only that figure is important to have a look,

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Speaker 2: but of course some of the reasons behind that and

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Speaker 2: some of the other concerns that members have raised in

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Speaker 2: this survey as well, And that's certainly something will be

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Speaker 2: fleshing out over the coming week or two.

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Speaker 1: What are some of those reasons that have been given?

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Speaker 2: Look, primarily when you talk about resourcing is one of

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Speaker 2: the major reasons, and of course, you know some of

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Speaker 2: the statistics initially out of this particular survey talk about

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Speaker 2: the fact that ninety three percent of our respondents some

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Speaker 2: don't think there's enough police in the Northern territory. Now,

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Speaker 2: we undertook a survey last year of a similar nature,

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Speaker 2: asked a very similar question, and back then seventy seven

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Speaker 2: percent provided that response. So we've had a significant increase

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Speaker 2: in the concern from our membership around the numbers of

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Speaker 2: police on the ground. And now there could be many

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Speaker 2: reasons behind that, but that's something we need to look

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Speaker 2: at over the coming week or two. And of course

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Speaker 2: we also talked through morale and of course of the

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Speaker 2: government's wages policy of similar questions from last year.

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Speaker 1: That these are just the interim results. I've no doubt

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Speaker 1: that there is plenty more information to come out from

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Speaker 1: this survey. As I understand it, you haven't sort of

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Speaker 1: just asked people to tick the box. You've also asked

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Speaker 1: for some commentary around their answers as well. Yeah, we have.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's important to give people an opportunity to

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Speaker 2: explain some of their reasoning behind their decisions. And when

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Speaker 2: we talk obviously specifically around the Commissioner, the numbers of

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Speaker 2: police wage policy, all those things are really important to

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Speaker 2: break down and you know, we've My understanding is there's

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Speaker 2: quite a lot of comments that were made. Nearly half

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Speaker 2: of the membership that participated wanted to make some additional comments,

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Speaker 2: which is very high in itself. So that's going to

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Speaker 2: take some time to break down and summarize in order

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Speaker 2: for us to really provide that information to the Government

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Speaker 2: and the Commissioner.

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Speaker 1: I mean, are you able to reveal any of any

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Speaker 1: of that detail on those comments at this stage.

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Speaker 2: No, because we're actually still getting all of that looked through,

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Speaker 2: and no doubt a lot of it's going to come

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Speaker 2: down two numbers. And obviously, you know, this isn't the

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Speaker 2: first survey. I think people are thinking this is our

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Speaker 2: first survey of this sort of nature. And whilst it

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Speaker 2: might be the first one, we've spoken about the commission

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Speaker 2: and the Confidence and the Commissioner. This is the fourth

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Speaker 2: survey that's been undertaken relation to this agency in the

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Speaker 2: last year. We undertook a survey last year. There was

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Speaker 2: also the government's own People Matter survey which had some

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Speaker 2: concerning results in that and we know the Ikak issue

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Speaker 2: to report recently in relation to some of the concerns there.

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Speaker 2: And we also know that police undertook a support and

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Speaker 2: wellbeing review which talked about poor workplace culture and support there.

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Speaker 2: So there are some positives coming out of that. I

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Speaker 2: can tell you we've had some meetings around that particular aspect.

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Speaker 2: But this isn't the first survey to highlight some of

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Speaker 2: these concerns, so we need to keep focus on that as.

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Speaker 1: Well, Paul. Have we got a police force that is broken,

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Speaker 1: I mean ninety two percent saying that they don't think

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Speaker 1: that there's enough police for them to be able to

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Speaker 1: do their jobs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look that's not surprising sort based on the feedback

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Speaker 2: we're getting in over the certain now of the last

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Speaker 2: six months. And of course COVID had an impact. We

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Speaker 2: will know that certainly did and still does now. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: if if an officer goes down with COVID, they're off

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Speaker 2: for over a week, so that certainly still plays a part.

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Speaker 2: But we know one of our major concerns is here

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Speaker 2: in the Greater Darwin area around resourcing and considerable amount

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Speaker 2: of vacancies that remain unfilled and you know, people are

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Speaker 2: just sick and tired of turning up to work and

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Speaker 2: being the only responding van for a section in the night.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, you just can't keep sustaining those

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Speaker 2: numbers and expect members are going to keep turning up

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Speaker 2: to work. It's just not sustainable, Paul.

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Speaker 1: You know, nearly eighty percent of police have said in

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Speaker 1: this survey that they do not have confidence in the

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Speaker 1: Police Commissioner. We're talking about eight out of ten of

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Speaker 1: the rank and file that are saying they do not

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Speaker 1: have confidence in their boss. Do you believe that the

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Speaker 1: Police Commissioner can stay on in his job?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, we've been quite clear from the start.

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Speaker 2: Of course, the Association doesn't hire Orfy the Commissioner. That's

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Speaker 2: certainly a direct question for the Chief Minister and the

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Speaker 2: Commissioner himself. What we are here to do is represent

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Speaker 2: the views of our members. Eighty percent of responders have

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Speaker 2: said they don't have confidence in the commission and that

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Speaker 2: speaks for itself in our view, and certainly that is

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Speaker 2: part of the purpose over the coming week is to

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Speaker 2: sit down. Obviously, we were very keen. I've been upfront

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Speaker 2: with the Commissioner about this and spoken to him about it.

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Speaker 2: Very keen to speak with the government, the Minister, and

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Speaker 2: of course we go into our in your conference next

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Speaker 2: week to speak to our delegates about these results and

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Speaker 2: what's to be determined from there. But we're very much

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Speaker 2: looking forward to having those discussions with the government the

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Speaker 2: Commissioner about these results.

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Speaker 1: So, Paul, you've spoken to the Police Commissioner, Jamie Chalker

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Speaker 1: about these results.

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Speaker 2: That's right. I've been upfront. We've said it from day one.

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Speaker 2: We'll be upfront, open and transparent about this. The commission

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Speaker 2: issued a statement as well, not long after we announce

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Speaker 2: the survey that he's keen to have a look at

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Speaker 2: the results and look at the reasons behind it. There

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Speaker 2: is no secrets here. This is an opportunity for us

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Speaker 2: to be looking forward and making sure we understand the

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Speaker 2: reasons why the police force are feeling like they are

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Speaker 2: and making sure we have a planning place to address

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Speaker 2: it because at the moment, as you can see from

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Speaker 2: the results, over the last twelve months, things have gone backwards.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Paul, I know that the association and the

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Speaker 1: rank and file really aren't the ones, as you've in

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Speaker 1: your words, who hire and fire the Commissioner, but it

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Speaker 1: must be incredibly concerning from the association's perspective to see this,

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Speaker 1: there is that larger number of the rank and file

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Speaker 1: that really don't have confidence here. Yeah, it is.

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Speaker 2: It is an enormous concern and I think you know

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Speaker 2: rightly we want to make sure we've got a healthy

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Speaker 2: and stable police force. And right now, you know, whilst

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Speaker 2: the Commissioner has been very positive in making sure recruitment

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Speaker 2: is maintained and making sure our numbers are keeping pace,

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Speaker 2: we are still losing far too many police to other roles,

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Speaker 2: other jobs, other police forces. We need to stop that bleed.

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Speaker 2: We need to stop that drain of experience leaving this organization.

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Speaker 2: This also goes back, Katie to just prior to the

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Speaker 2: last election, the government did not recruit a single constable

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Speaker 2: for twelve months. We are seeing voids in our rosters.

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Speaker 2: We're seeing holes in our rosters because a lack of

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Speaker 2: planning from a few years ago, and this is definitely

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Speaker 2: having an impact today.

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Speaker 1: Paul. I mean you've pointed out just in this interview

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Speaker 1: that there's been four surveys over the last year. You

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Speaker 1: also pointed to the government survey that's been conducted and

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Speaker 1: a number of other things. You know, it is obvious

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Speaker 1: to me, and I know it's obvious to you, but

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Speaker 1: it's certainly obvious to me that we've got a situation

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Speaker 1: right now where our police feel as though they're not

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Speaker 1: supported and they're under resourced. How big an impact is

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Speaker 1: this having on morale and on our officers being able

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Speaker 1: to do their jobs day to day.

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Speaker 2: It's enormous, Katie, when you look at morale, I mean

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Speaker 2: that again, is you know, last year members felt sixty

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Speaker 2: four percent was lowell very low. This year eighty percent.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's ray that's gone up considerably. So it's

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Speaker 2: clearly having an impact in the workplace. It's clearly affecting

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Speaker 2: our members in the workplace, and it's something that needs

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Speaker 2: to be addressed. We can't shut the books on this

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Speaker 2: and say there's nothing to see here. The government cannot

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Speaker 2: stick ahead in the sand and say thanks for that survey.

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Speaker 2: We're just going to carry on some of the policy changes,

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Speaker 2: some of the legislative changes that they've implemented. Is clearly

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Speaker 2: having an impact on our resourcing capabilities in the police force.

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Speaker 2: We know that, and you know they need to take

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Speaker 2: some responsibility as well. But certainly having that high number

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Speaker 2: of members saying they don't have confidence at the moment

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Speaker 2: is enormously concerning from our perspective, Paul.

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Speaker 1: If the Police Commissioner stays on in his role, is

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Speaker 1: that going to mean a dark cloud over the force?

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Speaker 2: Well, it depends what, well, how we manage this, how

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Speaker 2: we look at these figures, how we embrace them and say,

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Speaker 2: you know, let's let's have a look, really a deep

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Speaker 2: dive into having a look at reviewing the police force.

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Speaker 2: It to have a look at It's been ten years

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Speaker 2: since we've actually looked at what a police officer has

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Speaker 2: to do every day they go to work and what

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Speaker 2: their requirements are. It's been ten years since that's happened.

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Speaker 2: And clearly having looked at these statistics, and clearly we'll

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Speaker 2: wait for some of the additional feedback to come in,

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Speaker 2: but I'm almost certain it's time we need to do

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Speaker 2: the same again.

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Speaker 1: Paul. What are the next steps, you know, like this afternoon,

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Speaker 1: over the course of the weekend and as you head

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Speaker 1: into that conference, what are the next steps?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, obviously, you know we're having discussions today with

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Speaker 2: the government and the shadow minister and we'll be you know,

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Speaker 2: just going through some of those initial results and obviously

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Speaker 2: looking forward to them to them attending our conference next week.

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Speaker 2: Both the Minister and the Shadow Minister be attending there,

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Speaker 2: as will the Commissioner. So we'll be very kind to

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Speaker 2: sit down with all of those and just really discuss

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Speaker 2: this in an open and frank manner, and then obviously

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Speaker 2: will wait for those that further examination of the comments

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Speaker 2: and the themes that have come through to support some

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Speaker 2: of the stats that have been released already, and so

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Speaker 2: we're very keen to do that over the coming week

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Speaker 2: or two.

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Speaker 1: Now, I do just want to point out that my

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Speaker 1: understanding is that is that the Police Minister, Kate Warden

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Speaker 1: was on ABC Alice Springs this morning and she was

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Speaker 1: asked does she have confidence in the Northern Territory Police

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Speaker 1: Commissioner now. She responded by saying, yes, I will continue

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Speaker 1: to work with the Commissioner on some very very important matters.

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Speaker 1: It's no doubt that the police have had a very

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Speaker 1: very rough two or three years under COVID. It's been

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Speaker 1: particularly challenging right the way through. She continued by saying,

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Speaker 1: I did meet yesterday with the Commissioner and I'll be

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Speaker 1: having a chat hopefully later today with the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Police Association. It sounds, you know, it sounds as though

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Speaker 1: she is saying that she will continue to support the

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Speaker 1: Police Commissioner. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's not surprising. You know, initial for

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Speaker 2: feedback would be would not be surprising, that would be

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Speaker 2: the initial response. But we're very keen to obviously sit

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Speaker 2: down with the Minister and the commissioner and work through

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Speaker 2: this because whilst that's a statement, no doubt she was

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Speaker 2: always going to say, there's certainly some areas that our

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Speaker 2: members have clearly highlighted. Initial results have shown that there

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Speaker 2: is enormous problems at the moment and we need to

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Speaker 2: address them head first and not pretend there's nothing to

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Speaker 2: see there.

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Speaker 1: I don't honestly, I reckon they cannot pretend that there's

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Speaker 1: nothing to see here. Nobody can at this point. These

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Speaker 1: results a shocking to say the least, and I've no

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Speaker 1: doubt that there's going to be a lot of work

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Speaker 1: happen over the coming days. Paul mcuwe, I always appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time, no doubt we'll speak to you again over

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Speaker 1: the coming days. I'm sure.

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Speaker 2: Good on you. Thanks Katie, thank you