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Speaker 1: Now we know that two rural pubs are rolling out

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Speaker 1: training for their staff in personal safety tactics. So while

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory government did say or they committed to

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Speaker 1: staff training in their raft of crime measures following the

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Speaker 1: alleged murder of a bottel shop worker in Darwin, that

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Speaker 1: is yet to sort of be rolled out at this point.

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Speaker 1: So Berry Springs Tavern, Well Leasan and also Nunama's Tony

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Speaker 1: Innes there they are rolling out this training or they've

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Speaker 1: rolled out some of this training already for their staff.

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Speaker 1: Joining me in the studio right now is Leah Sloan.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning high listeners, and.

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Speaker 1: I think we're going to try and catch up with

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Speaker 1: Tony as well a little bit later. But Leah tell us,

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Speaker 1: why did you decide to sort of go down this

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Speaker 1: path of offering your staff this additional training.

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Speaker 3: Well, Katie, look, obviously we're in a really unique environment

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Speaker 3: at the moment and to be honest, not a lot

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Speaker 3: is being done to support us quickly. We know there

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Speaker 3: was an announcement made around the propos delivery delivery of

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Speaker 3: training to our industry to support our team, and until

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Speaker 3: Friday we weren't given any information about that. By that stage,

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Speaker 3: Tony and I had already collaborated and gone to a

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Speaker 3: local business personal Protection Strategies and come up with a

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Speaker 3: six hour personalized specific de escalation and safe personal safety

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Speaker 3: strategy training which was perfect for our business times of.

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Speaker 1: The essence here, isn't it like not only in the

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Speaker 1: sense that there is very real and critical situations unfolding

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Speaker 1: right now, but also in terms of staff not being

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Speaker 1: able to have like a huge amount of time.

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Speaker 2: Away from work.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And the staff are nervous, you know, and they

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Speaker 3: need the schools right now. They don't need them in

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Speaker 3: a month or in six months, and they don't need

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Speaker 3: to be seeing in a classroom for four days learning

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Speaker 3: how to engage customers, which is what the anti government

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Speaker 3: have proposed.

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Speaker 2: Oh done so. The course that they've.

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Speaker 3: Proposed, which as I say, I didn't find out about

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Speaker 3: until Friday, once we'd already initiated our training, poses an

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Speaker 3: accredited course of over four days sitting in a classroom,

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Speaker 3: and one of the core units is how to engage customers.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I would question if I've got someone in

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Speaker 3: a customer facing role at this point, they should already

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Speaker 3: know how to engage customers.

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Speaker 2: That's not what we want to deliver to these people.

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Speaker 3: So basically, Tony and I sort of challenged the fact that,

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Speaker 3: come on, you're only going to support us with this

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Speaker 3: training if we're delivering something you're telling us that suits

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Speaker 3: our needs, you know. And sadly there's too much of

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Speaker 3: this that goes on, you know, and there has to

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Speaker 3: be someone that stands up and says, well, no, that's

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Speaker 3: not acceptable, it doesn't suit my business.

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Speaker 2: And look a part of that.

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Speaker 3: We had conversations with two representatives on Friday and said, well, look,

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Speaker 3: you know you're telling us we're only going to be

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Speaker 3: supported with funding if we're delivering what you're telling us

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Speaker 3: what we need. You know, what consultation have you done?

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Speaker 2: Who have you.

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Speaker 3: Spoken to to determine that this is the right thing

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Speaker 3: for our industry and our business. Apparently there was a

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Speaker 3: consultation done with over fifty businesses.

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Speaker 2: But you know, when I questioned, can you tell me

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Speaker 2: who that was?

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Speaker 3: You know, who determined that this was suitable to remove

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Speaker 3: someone from my business for four days to sit in

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Speaker 3: a classroom and learn a lot of what they should

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Speaker 3: already know at a large expense to the taxpayer.

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Speaker 2: As well as the business.

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Speaker 3: When you know we can achieve the same outcome, if

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Speaker 3: not a better outcome, in a six hour training session

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Speaker 3: at a lot less cost, it doesn't make sense. And

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Speaker 3: then when you challenge or you post questions about, well,

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Speaker 3: hold on, how did you get to this outcome that

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Speaker 3: you're enforcing on me, and you're only going to support

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Speaker 3: me financially if I deliver on that, then you shut down.

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Speaker 3: I was actually told that the Privacy Act wouldn't allow

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Speaker 3: me to know who they consulted with. Now I spoke

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Speaker 3: to just about every rural business, I spoke to most

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Speaker 3: city businesses. I've put it on a Facebook group chat,

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Speaker 3: and not one single person has come back to me

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Speaker 3: in a like business is said that they were consulted.

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Speaker 3: Not one single person in a like business has come

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Speaker 3: back to me and said that they're even aware of

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Speaker 3: this training program.

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Speaker 1: Because the reality here is is that it would be

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Speaker 1: really tough to have a large number of stuff or

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Speaker 1: any number of stuff out of action for four days

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Speaker 1: doing that training. And I get you know that that

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Speaker 1: training needs to happen, which is exactly why you have

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Speaker 1: embarked on that training yourselves off your own back, but

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Speaker 1: done it in a different way so that those stuff

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Speaker 1: then aren't out of action for such a long period

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Speaker 1: of time. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I think the really important thing to note

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Speaker 3: is this you on nine News last night, there was

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Speaker 3: a lot of physical stuff.

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Speaker 2: That's not what this course was about.

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Speaker 3: This course was about the primary goal of de escalating

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Speaker 3: and those techniques associated with that, including how you're poisoning

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Speaker 3: your body and your body language in your communication. So

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Speaker 3: it wasn't just rarah kongfu. It was how to have

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Speaker 3: these really good skills and apply them in most situations.

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Speaker 3: And look, you know they're not going to be applicable

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Speaker 3: to every situation. But when you've got a local company

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Speaker 3: that's prepared to come in come to you, that came

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Speaker 3: to us, and deliver a training that specific to your

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Speaker 3: needs right now and do it quickly, well, then that's

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Speaker 3: what we need. We don't need our team to be

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Speaker 3: sitting in a classroom for four days learning how to

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Speaker 3: engage customers.

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Speaker 1: Lee, talk me through what I did learn, Like, tell

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Speaker 1: me a little bit about some of the stuff that

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Speaker 1: your staff learned, because I know that you guys out

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Speaker 1: there at very Springs, same as Tony's crew out there

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Speaker 1: at the Nunama like a family. You know, everybody really

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Speaker 1: cares about each other and you look after each other.

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Speaker 1: So like, it's obvious to me that you're sort of

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Speaker 1: doing this because you want to make sure that your

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Speaker 1: staff are safe and you want to sort of arm

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Speaker 1: them with skills to be able to deal with different situations.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, And that's something I pointed out to the

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Speaker 3: antigovernment on Friday when I met with them. I'm not

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Speaker 3: here to argue with you, I'm not here to be difficult.

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Speaker 3: I'm here because I care about my community, i care

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Speaker 3: about my staff, and I want you to be listening

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Speaker 3: to the people on the ground who run business day

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Speaker 3: and day out and know how to do things costs,

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Speaker 3: cost effectively and time effectively, and they know how to

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Speaker 3: meet the needs of their team. Someone sitting behind a

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Speaker 3: desk coming and telling me what I need to deliver

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Speaker 3: to my staff to support them doesn't always work, particularly

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Speaker 3: when the consultation has not been appropriate.

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Speaker 2: So part of what they were taught was.

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Speaker 3: You know, being mindful of their physical attitude, the language

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Speaker 3: they're using, and visual cues to show that they're listening

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Speaker 3: those sorts of things which are really important and look,

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Speaker 3: you know, you should have certain elements of those in

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Speaker 3: your communication anyway, but when you're sitting down and you're

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Speaker 3: with a professional and being reminded.

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Speaker 2: Of those things, it's.

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Speaker 3: Really important and it triggers you just to really be

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Speaker 3: alert of how you're interacting with people and how you

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Speaker 3: might be able to easily de escalate something.

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Speaker 2: Not always, Like I said, it's not always going to work.

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Speaker 3: But the best we can do is support our team

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Speaker 3: and try and give them the tools to be safe

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Speaker 3: in their workplace. And I think, you know, we've done that,

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Speaker 3: and we've done it cost effectively, and we've done it quickly.

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Speaker 3: And we've got the anti government telling us that we

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Speaker 3: won't be supported financially because the training program that we've

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Speaker 3: chosen to use is not accredited, And.

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Speaker 1: Well are they from even getting a training program underway?

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Speaker 1: You know that would then take you out for four days?

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Speaker 3: Well, I believe it's in place, So they engage they

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Speaker 3: engage an interstate provider incidentally, to develop a three and

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Speaker 3: a half hour online training session.

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Speaker 2: So that's the first part of the course.

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Speaker 3: But when you register, you know, it's a fifteen minute

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Speaker 3: registration you've got to go through and you know, demonstrate

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Speaker 3: your mathematical capabilities and blah blah blah. Anyway, so you

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Speaker 3: go and do that, and then that leads on to

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Speaker 3: the CDU part of the program again. When I said, look,

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Speaker 3: I can't release my workers for four days, the solution

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Speaker 3: I was provided, well, look, why don't you space it

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Speaker 3: outo for over six months. It doesn't have to be

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Speaker 3: done at once. I said, that's not an adequate solution.

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Speaker 3: You know, I've got team members that need these skills now,

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Speaker 3: and your solution is to tell me that we should

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Speaker 3: space this out over six months. It's going to lose

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Speaker 3: momentum and it's not effective, you know. And I think

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Speaker 3: that's the issue that a lot of us are having

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Speaker 3: with government at the moment, is they actually don't want

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Speaker 3: to listen. So they sent people out to plicate me,

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Speaker 3: to sit down and tell me why I needed to

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Speaker 3: be doing this course. They were hearing me, but they

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Speaker 3: actually weren't listening to me, Katie. And when it was

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Speaker 3: escalated and my conversation was escalated to regional manager, the

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Speaker 3: conversation I had is you sent people out to talk

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Speaker 3: to me, but they were talking to me about why,

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Speaker 3: insisting why they're program they were implementing was right for

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Speaker 3: my business. They weren't listening to what I was saying,

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Speaker 3: and I said to them, look, I'm not expecting you

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Speaker 3: to introduce exactly what I'm saying, but at least listen

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Speaker 3: to me. Meet me halfway. I invited them to come

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Speaker 3: out and attend the training and tell me why it

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Speaker 3: was deemed too dangerous to personal safety, because that was

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Speaker 3: the other reason that they wouldn't support us with the training.

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Speaker 2: So there was two reasons. One it wasn't accredited.

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Speaker 3: The second reason was that it was it posed a

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Speaker 3: potential risk to personal safety, so the government could support

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Speaker 3: the training. And I said, as I invited them out

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Speaker 3: to attend it so they could say, look, tell me

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Speaker 3: exactly what's dangerous and look, maybe we could talk about changing.

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Speaker 1: After having staff attend that training, now, do you feel

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Speaker 1: as though it's been a helpful scenario for them? And

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Speaker 1: what's the feedback then from the staff?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, on multiple levels, because we've collaborated with Nunamar, we've

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Speaker 3: got that cohesive relationship now that we've got the team

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Speaker 3: working together. And they all came back to work yesterday,

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Speaker 3: they were pumped and they were just pumped because they

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Speaker 3: know that we were investing in them. They know we're

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Speaker 3: actually caring about their real needs and the tools that

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Speaker 3: they need to best do their jobs and best keep

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Speaker 3: themselves safe. And you know, and we're taking action despite

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Speaker 3: the lack of government support. So you know, the staff

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Speaker 3: are feeling supported, they're feeling motivated. And I'll tell you what,

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Speaker 3: We're a short skilled industry. That's what they need. They

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Speaker 3: don't need to be taken out of an industry where

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Speaker 3: we can barely cover shifts and sit in the classroom

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Speaker 3: for four days and learn how to engage customers.

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Speaker 1: Now, tell me as well, because you guys, unfortunately have

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Speaker 1: been subjected to issues of crime. You know, it's very

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Speaker 1: well documented on this show. We've certainly spoken to you before.

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Speaker 1: We'd spoken to Ian last year when it was a

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Speaker 1: terrible situation where you had staff members, one including your daughter,

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Speaker 1: who were hiding in the office space as somebody ram

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Speaker 1: rated your business.

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Speaker 2: It was incredibly frightening, absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Katie, and I think that's you know, it is very

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Speaker 3: personal to me. We had two female staff on premise.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it doesn't matter a female male. We had

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Speaker 3: to staff on premises. They heard a noise. Our venue

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Speaker 3: was ram rated by ten men they had weapons, some

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Speaker 3: of them were intoxicated. My team, my two team members

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Speaker 3: had thirty seconds to get themselves safe and luckily they

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Speaker 3: had the smarts to run into the office lock the door.

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Speaker 3: But they stood in that office for six minutes, Katie

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Speaker 3: and watched the footage while ten men raided my venue.

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Speaker 3: Now they're both they're still in counseling those people, and

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Speaker 3: this is the thing that was six months ago. And

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Speaker 3: the government came out and met with me because again,

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Speaker 3: I you know, I had a voice, and sadly, the

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Speaker 3: thing is, you know, you have to.

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Speaker 2: Stand up and have a voice for anything to be done.

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Speaker 3: But you know, they came out and met with me

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Speaker 3: and said, oh, I'm so sorry, you know this has happened.

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Speaker 2: But I haven't had words, you know, back since I.

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Speaker 3: Actually gave them an a four handout and said, these

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Speaker 3: are all the issues that need to be attended to.

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Speaker 3: These are my concerns. You know, I'm giving you a

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Speaker 3: handout so you don't forget them. And I'm giving you

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Speaker 3: a handout so you don't forget to get back to me.

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Speaker 2: And you know what, I haven't.

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Speaker 3: Heard a thing, you know, So it's just it's just

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Speaker 3: a typical example of the you know, lip service that

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Speaker 3: we're getting and you know, the inaction and people are

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Speaker 3: sick of it. You know, we're trying hard to operate.

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Speaker 3: Good businesses, community businesses, support our team, and we're getting

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Speaker 3: lip service, Lea.

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Speaker 1: Based on what the government's announced as well, since the

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Speaker 1: absolute tragic loss of Declan lavity, do you you know,

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Speaker 1: based on what you're telling me this morning, but also

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Speaker 1: following on from the announcements that they've made, do you

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Speaker 1: feel as though the measures that they've put in place

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Speaker 1: are going to help you to be able to keep

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Speaker 1: your staff safe.

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Speaker 3: Well, my question is they've decided that it's appropriate to

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Speaker 3: have police at the bottle shops in Alice Springs, and

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Speaker 3: they determined that a long time ago because there was

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Speaker 3: you know, inappropriate behavior. But you know, it's not appropriate

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Speaker 3: for DULLM bottle shops to have that funding because what

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Speaker 3: someone's very very sadly has lost their life.

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Speaker 2: You know that they have decided.

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Speaker 3: Well, I actually again, I only found out yesterday because

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Speaker 3: I escalated a conversation and demanded some man. But I

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Speaker 3: was told, oh, look, we're going to fund forty five

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Speaker 3: dollars an hour for security guards in your venue. Or

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Speaker 3: a security guard for the time that you're open. But again, like,

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Speaker 3: where is the roll out of this? You know, I'm

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Speaker 3: only getting this information because I'm demanding it, But where

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Speaker 3: is this being rolled out? Where are we being consulted

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Speaker 3: with or communicated?

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Speaker 1: So it's all pretty slow moving by one hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: Is one hundred percent is And you know, as I say,

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Speaker 3: it's that just does not seem to be adequate consultation.

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Speaker 3: And if there is, nobody knows about it, and if

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Speaker 3: you dare ask about it, you're not able to know.

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Speaker 1: Well, the thing is, like you guys are one of

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Speaker 1: the bigger venues in the Northern Territory right now. You know,

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Speaker 1: you would think that you would know what is going on.

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Speaker 1: You would think, particularly the fact that you have faced

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Speaker 1: those issues of crime and ram raid, that you would

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Speaker 1: be communicated with.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And you know what, we're owner operators.

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Speaker 3: You know, the government know that, they know we're passionate,

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Speaker 3: they know we're territory people, they know we've been in

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Speaker 3: business here a long time, you know, So why aren't

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Speaker 3: these conversations being It's because they don't want to listen

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Speaker 3: to anything that doesn't fall in line with what their

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Speaker 3: ideas are. And the minute you say something that that

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Speaker 3: is disputing anything that they're deciding to deliver or roll out,

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Speaker 3: then you're, you know, you're branded a troublemaker. And it's

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Speaker 3: ridiculous because these conversations. You know, these these people forget

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Speaker 3: that they're working for the tax payer, they're working for us,

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Speaker 3: they're working for the businesses that are paying their wages.

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Speaker 3: You know, they should be listening to us, they should

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Speaker 3: be consulting with us, and instead of you know, coming

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Speaker 3: up with ideas on their own, they should be actually

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Speaker 3: taking that and putting practical, cost effective and time effective

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Speaker 3: solutions in place.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not sure if.

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Speaker 3: You really quickly, Katie, I can mention the cost. You know,

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Speaker 3: the cost of the session that we're delivering. We delivered

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Speaker 3: was three hundred and thirty per person inclusive a GST and.

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Speaker 2: Rolled out over six hours.

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Speaker 3: The cost of the CDO course, from what I'm led

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Speaker 3: to believe, is one thousand dollars per person over a

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Speaker 3: space of four days. So we're having to remove our

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Speaker 3: staff from business. You know, the wages is nine thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars to get ten staff through that course. The wages

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Speaker 3: to get the staff through a six hour course is

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Speaker 3: seventeen hundred dollars, you know, So for what we've proposed,

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Speaker 3: what we're doing, it's a third of the cost to

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Speaker 3: business or taxpayer whoever foots the bill for the course itself,

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Speaker 3: and it's a fifth of the cost in wages, you know,

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Speaker 3: let alone having it done in a timely manner. So

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Speaker 3: I dare say it, but I think it's time that

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Speaker 3: the government is looking at the way they do things

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Speaker 3: from a business perspective rather than a playground.

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Speaker 1: Well, Leah, I really appreciate your time this morning. It

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Speaker 1: is good to catch up with you as always, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I actually think it makes quite a bit

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Speaker 1: of common sense to speak to the businesses that are

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Speaker 1: being impacted to find out, you know, whether it's going

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Speaker 1: to work for you, whether it is going to be effective,

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Speaker 1: because if it's not, it's not going to work, you know,

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Speaker 1: and this is where you do actually need to engage

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Speaker 1: with the community on the different decisions that you're making.

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Speaker 1: So I really appreciate your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. Katie has engaged with customers.

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Speaker 3: That's one of the courses that they've suggested perhaps should

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Speaker 3: be rolled out internally.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: For your time this morning, Leah Sloane, always good to

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Speaker 1: catch up with you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you,