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Speaker 1: This is jem Nation. We're jes.

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Speaker 2: Last week Claire Stevens, we lost her, she left our show.

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Speaker 2: But she's fine, everything's okay. She's gone on to do great,

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Speaker 2: great things. Yeah, we are like the wind beneath her wings.

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Speaker 1: Well she didn't phrase it like that, but sure.

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Speaker 2: So stepping into Claire's well she hasn't really got big

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Speaker 2: shoes because she had small feet, is Emma Gillespie.

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Speaker 3: Hello, much bigger feet than Claire, I can confirm, but

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Speaker 3: we're feet, thank you.

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Speaker 4: She's a very baby.

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Speaker 1: Bird and she left our nest. And so to keep

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Speaker 1: that imagery going, you're now hatching out of that. And

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Speaker 1: but so you also work with Mamma Mia.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so I'm a podcaster and journal at Mama Mia.

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Speaker 3: Little bit of hosting, a bit of producing.

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Speaker 4: Wherever they'll have me. Well, we're thrilled to have you here,

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Speaker 4: thrilled to p And what.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about is Michelle Obama because she's

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Speaker 1: given some insight into what it's like to raise teenage

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Speaker 1: children in the White House. I think Amy Carter, Amy Carter,

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Speaker 1: it was Jimmy Carter's daughter was the foot child that

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Speaker 1: was a child in the White House. I think Wow,

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Speaker 1: all those years ago. I don't know if we count

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Speaker 1: Baron of the Trump family, he was there. He was there.

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Speaker 1: I mean when I say I don't know if we'll

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Speaker 1: ever get insight into what his life was like there,

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Speaker 1: which must have been fascinating. But we're now getting insight

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Speaker 1: into what it was like for the Obamas exactly.

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Speaker 3: And the thing I love about this insight is I

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Speaker 3: don't know about you guys, but when I would watch

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Speaker 3: the Obamas, I would just think, Wow, perfect family.

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Speaker 4: What more could you want? Perfect kids, perfect mum. Well

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Speaker 4: apparently not so. The new book is called The Light

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Speaker 4: We Carry and Michelle's written it, hasn't she She's written it.

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Speaker 3: She's also narrated the audiobook. Her last book was Becoming

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Speaker 3: in twenty eighteen, and that just sold like hotcakes, and

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Speaker 3: this one is doing the same. But she writes about

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Speaker 3: the girls and their bad behavior, and she says she

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Speaker 3: doesn't name names. There's only two of them, Sasha and Malia.

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Speaker 3: Someone got grounded for missing curfew. Someone posted an eyebrow

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Speaker 3: raising bikini selfie on Instagram and was promptly instructed by

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Speaker 3: the East Wing comms team to remove it. Someone once

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Speaker 3: had to be dragged by Secret Service agents from an

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Speaker 3: out of hand, unsupervised high school party just as local

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Speaker 3: law enforcement was arriving. And this is my favorite. Someone

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Speaker 3: talked back to the President of the United States their

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Speaker 3: dad when he had the audacity to ask how she

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Speaker 3: could possibly study Spanish while listening to rap music.

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Speaker 1: So same as everyone else. They've gone through the same

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Speaker 1: as everyone Exactly.

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Speaker 4: That's what I love most about it.

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Speaker 3: But there's also these admissions from Michelle of this guilt

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Speaker 3: and how she felt like an imperfect mother. And she

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Speaker 3: said an episode of even mild disobedience or misbehavior from

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Speaker 3: our adolescent daughters would set off a ripple of unsettling

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Speaker 3: worry in me. It preyed upon my greatest fear, which

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Speaker 3: was that life in the White House was messing our

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Speaker 3: kids up.

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Speaker 1: I can understand that it would. I mean, we all

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Speaker 1: struggle with that as parents, as to am I doing

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Speaker 1: the right thing? But what extraordinary experiences they have Exactly

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Speaker 1: this is their dad's dream, mum's dream perhaps as well,

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Speaker 1: but they didn't choose it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and these girls were ten and seven when they

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Speaker 3: went into the White House, and you know, we know

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Speaker 3: that they were there for eight years.

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Speaker 4: So for anyone who's been a teenager or raised a teenager.

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Speaker 3: Those years after that age are formative, difficult, They're.

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Speaker 1: Hard, and the scrutiny of being his kids very hard.

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Speaker 4: Oh, the public eye on you. I love this idea.

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Speaker 3: If someone posts the bikini selfie on Instagram and the

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Speaker 3: Secret Service or the East Wing are going.

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Speaker 2: And it comes a long way from when Baraques set

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Speaker 2: up the play equipment, you know, when they first moved

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Speaker 2: in there, remember to do it. I think of the

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Speaker 2: play equipment outside American Dream as quick as anything. She's

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Speaker 2: posting bikini selfies exactly.

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Speaker 4: I thought it was interesting.

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Speaker 3: She also, Michelle spoke about this sort of the feeling

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Speaker 3: of not enoughness that mothers have and the images of

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Speaker 3: maternal perfection that are all around them, you know that

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Speaker 3: we see in advertising on social media and for Michelle

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Speaker 3: Obama who for me, you know, and for women everywhere's

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Speaker 3: she's iconic.

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Speaker 4: We all look up to her.

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Speaker 3: But that she would go to bed with all those

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Speaker 3: fears and insecurities, I think it tells us a lot

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Speaker 3: about motherhood.

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Speaker 4: I don't know Matam, what you.

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Speaker 1: I have's, but absolutely it does that we look to

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Speaker 1: her as a woman who has great emotional intelligence. Great compassion,

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Speaker 1: great wisdom, great intelligence. She's as vulnerable as we all

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Speaker 1: are to thinking am I doing my best? And which

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Speaker 1: bits aren't I doing well? Exactly, we're all in the

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Speaker 1: same boat. So that idea of enoughness, we've all got

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Speaker 1: to say I am enough. I remember reading a book

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Speaker 1: when my children were really little. It was by Robin

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Speaker 1: Barker and was called Baby Love, and she said, praise

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Speaker 1: your children. I was at Love your children, praise their

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Speaker 1: achievements and take a deep breath because you're doing okay.

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Speaker 1: And it just we put so much pressure on ourselves,

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Speaker 1: we really do.

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Speaker 3: Michelle needed that book because she said, was there a

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Speaker 3: parenting book that I'd forgotten to study fifteen years earlier?

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Speaker 3: Was this a bona fide crisis? The sign of a

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Speaker 3: bigger problems? Was I too late?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 4: It's so hard.

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Speaker 1: I remember when my two year old went to daycare

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Speaker 1: for a day and he didn't know how to sit

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Speaker 1: on a chair. The other kids were sitting down because

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Speaker 1: I used to put him on a chair. His little

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Speaker 1: legs were straight, he didn't have to sit on a chair.

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Speaker 1: A chair have failed my son. He doesn't know how

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Speaker 1: to sit down.

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Speaker 4: Embarrassing. How all were gossiping about it.

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Speaker 2: Kid, he's got perfectly good kneesy. You're not using If

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Speaker 2: only there was a book about parenting.

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Speaker 3: Well, they're twenty one and twenty four now, the girls,

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Speaker 3: so they're doing okay, okay, they live together in LA.

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Speaker 4: They're smart as whatever.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: They'll write a book about Michelle and Barack one day

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Speaker 1: and then we'll get all the.

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Speaker 2: Goss Examina, this has been great. You can catch Emma

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Speaker 2: on Mama Mia on Mama Mia outlaud this week in back.

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Speaker 4: That's entertabrible.

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Speaker 2: Catch next week, See you next week. Thank you,