1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 2: Hello, how's your summer going. 8 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 3: Are you on a road trip, are you recovering from 9 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 3: a big party in the sun, or are you just 10 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 3: taking a quiet walk, whatever the case is, You are 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 3: listening to a special summer series of the TDA Podcast. 12 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 2: Now, the whole idea here is that every day we're 13 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 2: going to throw back to a different episode from last year. 14 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 2: We've sat down and chosen some of the most listens 15 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 2: to stories of twenty twenty two, but we've also thrown 16 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 2: in some of the stories that may have gotten left 17 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: behind in the news cycle and we think they weren't 18 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: a bit of a enough date. All right, party people, 19 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 2: We are well and truly into the music festival season. 20 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: And while a national conversation continues about how amnesty bins 21 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: can work at festivals, a testing clinic has been operating 22 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: where you can go to get illicit drugs tested before 23 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 2: you head off. Today on the summer series, we're going 24 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 2: to throw back to July when we brought you the 25 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 2: story of the first ever Australian government backed drug testing 26 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 2: center in the act. Stick around until the end to 27 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: hear what discoveries the center has made so far and 28 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 2: spoiler alert, it involves low purity levels and sugar. 29 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 4: So Sam, pill testing is back in the headlines and 30 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 4: it's been a big issue that young people in particular 31 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 4: have cared a lot about in recent years. Sam, let's 32 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 4: start by discussing why we're actually talking about pill testing today. 33 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 4: So what's happened that's put this issue back into the 34 00:01:58,480 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 4: national attention. 35 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: Close your eyes and picture you're in the nation's capital, 36 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 2: because that's where Australia's first ever fixed pill testing center 37 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 2: will be opening this month. And when I say fixed, 38 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 2: I mean that the center is not going to be 39 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: set up for a specific events like a music festival, 40 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 2: but it's going to operate on a weekly basis for 41 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: at least the next six months. It's going to be 42 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 2: a drop in service that will run on Thursdays and 43 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 2: Fridays every week and will have a nurse on hands 44 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: to provide general health advice to visitors who come into 45 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: the facility. 46 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 4: And so the issue of pill testing has obviously been 47 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 4: a pretty divisive one and so I imagine for something like 48 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 4: this to happen, it needs the support of the government. 49 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 4: Does it have the Act government support in doing this well? 50 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 2: The Act Government has taken the view that pill testing 51 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: can limit the dangers of drug use and in turn 52 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 2: it can save lives. The Act Government has called pill 53 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 2: testing part of what they say is a sensible approach 54 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 2: to addressing illicit drug use and also gives health professionals 55 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 2: intercepting opportunity to speak to potential drug users about ways 56 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 2: to reduce potential harm and discuss the toxicity of certain drugs. 57 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 4: And so when we've seen this come up in the 58 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 4: news before, other state governments haven't really taken this approach. 59 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 4: So it seems like quite a different perspective to what 60 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 4: we've seen in the past. What have other approaches away 61 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,839 Speaker 4: from pill testing looked like, sam. 62 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 2: I remember there was a bit of a discussion about 63 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 2: pill testing in New South Wales about three years ago 64 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: when then Premier Gladys Baragiclin refused to go ahead with 65 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 2: any sort of pill testing at music festivals. Now, this 66 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 2: was on the back of formal inquests into drug deaths 67 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 2: at music festivals that was handed down that year, which 68 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 2: actually recommended trialing pill testing and also to stop the 69 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 2: use of sniffer dogs and limiting strip searchers at music festivals. Now, 70 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 2: despite the recommendations of this inquest, Beeragicline was quite firm 71 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: to her beliefs, saying this about the issue in October 72 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 2: of twenty nineteen. 73 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: What will stop young kids from dying over the summer 74 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: is for them to stop taking the pills. 75 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 2: There is no safe way to take pills magically, and 76 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: said that instead of trialing pill testing centers, she would 77 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 2: provide special amnesty bins at festivals instead. What's an amnesty bin. 78 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: It's a bin that would allow festival goers to get 79 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,279 Speaker 2: rid of any illicit substances without being prosecuted or penalized. 80 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 2: She said this would give young people a place to 81 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 2: discard their drugs that they didn't want to use, and 82 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: would reduce the intimidation factor of police at festivals. You 83 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 2: have to remember that for a lot of young people 84 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: seeing the police at festivals, especially with sniffer dogs or 85 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: conducting strip searchers, had been panicking some people into taking 86 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 2: the entirety of their drugs all at once. Now this 87 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: raises the danger of an adverse reaction and a potential overdose. 88 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 4: And how successful have amnesty bins been since they were introduced. 89 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: So we had the discussion about amnesty bins and then 90 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 2: we had a little visit from a friend called COVID 91 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 2: nineteen in March of twenty twenty. So it's actually a 92 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 2: really tricky question to answer. So these amnesty bins came 93 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 2: in at twenty nineteen and then music festivals will almost 94 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 2: immediately shut down. But now with live events starting to return, 95 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 2: we're getting a little bit more of a sample size 96 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 2: into how effective these bins could be. But there's one 97 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: other issue with these bins that's being discussed, and that's 98 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 2: what to do with the drugs that's put in them. 99 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 2: At the moment, the substances in the bins are being 100 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: destroyed rather than being used for data collection. Now you've 101 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: got to remember that these amnesty bins offer an opportunity 102 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,679 Speaker 2: for experts to get a better idea of the current 103 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 2: drug market, and this could then inform their strategies to 104 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 2: educate drug users and limit the chance of serious drug 105 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 2: harm or death. But when you destroy the drugs, this 106 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 2: does waste an opportunity to learn more about the drugs 107 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 2: that young people were taking into festivals. 108 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 4: Right, So that's another harm minimization approach. But what sort 109 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 4: of evidence has the ACT government gathered to support installing 110 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 4: a pill testing clinic instead of introducing amnesty bins. 111 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 2: In the kind of decade that we've been having this 112 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 2: conversation nationally, it's pretty safe to say that the ACT 113 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 2: has been at the forefront of pill testing so far, 114 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 2: and it's drawn on the findings from previous trials conducted 115 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 2: in the territory to start this pilot program. One of 116 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: the big services was conducted at the Canberra Griven the 117 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 2: Move festival in twenty nineteen, a very popular festival for 118 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 2: young Australians, and that followed the first ever Australian pill 119 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 2: testing trial at the same event the prior year. The 120 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 2: Australian National University, also based in Canberra, published a final 121 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 2: report on the twenty nineteen trial, which supported further pill 122 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 2: testing across Australia. Within this report, there were a few 123 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: really interesting findings and they paint a picture of a 124 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 2: pill testing model with the potential to save lives as 125 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: the Act intends for this new center to be used. 126 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 2: What did we learn. We learned that every participant in 127 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 2: the trial who had a very dangerous substance detected disposed 128 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 2: of that drug, while those who were told the drug 129 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 2: wasn't what they thought it was were less likely to 130 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: take the substance. It's also worth noting that most of 131 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 2: the festival goers who had their drug confirmed as what 132 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: they expected it to be still took the drug, but 133 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 2: said they used harm reduction knowledge to reduce the risks 134 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 2: of an adverse effect. 135 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 4: SAM It's pretty clear that the ACT government is trying 136 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 4: to afford a new path in this drug harm minimization path. 137 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 4: I think it's also worth noting that last month the 138 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 4: Act government endorsed are proposed law that would actually decriminalize 139 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 4: small amount of commonly used illicit drugs such as cocaine 140 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 4: and heroine. So they're definitely trying something new that no 141 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 4: other jurisdiction in Australia is doing. 142 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 2: A couple of months after the Act Drug Testing Center opened, 143 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 2: researchers from ANU released some really fascinating data. They took 144 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 2: a look at some of the drugs dropped off at 145 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 2: the center during the month of August, and they found 146 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 2: the cocaine samples deposited had a purity level of twenty 147 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 2: seven percent and forty percent of samples didn't actually have 148 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 2: any cocaine at all. One methamphetamine sample was found to 149 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: be just sugar. Of nineteen MDMA samples, only thirteen were 150 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 2: actually mgma. Interestingly, fifty eight samples were tested overall, and 151 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: eighteen people discarded their drugs once they received their results. 152 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 2: This testing clinic was only open on a six month trial. 153 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 2: We're expecting to hear this month if it will be extended. 154 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this episode of our special TDA 155 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: Summer series. We'll be back to normal programming on the 156 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 2: sixteenth of January, but if you want some more breaking 157 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: news in the meantime, open your phone and find us 158 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 2: on Instagram. It's currently where over four hundred and ten 159 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: thousand Australians get their news, and we are on even 160 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 2: though you're on holiday.