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Speaker 1: One of the biggest challenges of early childhood is having

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Speaker 1: a child who hits. What do you do when you

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Speaker 1: have a violent child, a child who gets emotionally disregulated

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Speaker 1: and then they come at you. It's all arms and legs,

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Speaker 1: feet and hands. They're kicking, they're hitting, they're screaming at you,

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Speaker 1: they're telling you that they hate you. And all you

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Speaker 1: did was say, no, sweetie, you can't stay at the

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Speaker 1: park any longer. It's time to go home.

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Speaker 2: Or you cut their sandwiches and triangles instead of squares.

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Speaker 1: I know, I mean, I've said this before. You always

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Speaker 1: always cut in squares or rectangles first, because if they

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Speaker 1: want triangles, you can just go diagonal. If you're gone

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Speaker 1: triangular first, it's really hard to turn them into a square.

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Speaker 1: But we digress. What do we do when we've got

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Speaker 1: a child who is really upset so much so that

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Speaker 1: they're becoming physically aggressive towards us, towards usually towards mum.

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Speaker 1: The realities, they don't do it towards dad so much.

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Speaker 1: That's what we discussed today on the Happy Families podcast. Yes, Gooday,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. Real parenting Solutions every

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Speaker 1: single day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We are

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Speaker 1: Justin and Kylie Colson and we are delighted to have

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Speaker 1: you join us today. If you knew to the pod,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for jumping on board today. A conversation

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Speaker 1: about kids who get aggressive and violent. We've had this

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Speaker 1: happened in our family. I remember years ago my little

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Speaker 1: brother was terrified because one of his kids was constantly

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Speaker 1: hitting his wife. And it always seems to happen around

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Speaker 1: about the age of let's say three ish. As a

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Speaker 1: general rule, Kylie, you've got an early childcare background. This

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Speaker 1: is what you lived for when you were younger and

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Speaker 1: working in that industry. Were kids violent? Do they hit

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Speaker 1: each other at kindergarten preschool? I'll take that as a yes.

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Speaker 2: Wherever there are children, there will be violence.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, constant separation. How you to stop using your hands

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Speaker 1: we have we have soft we have pulling and scratching.

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Speaker 1: You've got to use those lines, right, It's all about

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Speaker 1: we have gentle hands, we have soft hands, we have

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Speaker 1: nice hands, we have kind hands. So let's discuss this.

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Speaker 1: I want to initially just make it really clear. This

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Speaker 1: is as you've laughed at me for asking the question.

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Speaker 1: And developmentally appropriate behavior that we see all the time

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Speaker 1: when you have children who don't know how to regulate

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Speaker 1: their emotions and therefore their behaviors, because your behavior follows

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Speaker 1: your emotion. If you're feeling disregulated emotionally, especially if you're young,

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Speaker 1: you'll typically become dysregulated in your behavior. Impulse control is

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Speaker 1: not the strong suit of a three year old.

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Speaker 2: The reality is they've got these really big emotions and

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Speaker 2: they've got to be able to find a way to

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Speaker 2: let that emotion move through their body in an appropriate way.

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Speaker 2: But as a three year old, they don't learn that

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Speaker 2: on their own.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean, emotion regulation kind of begins in a

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Speaker 1: very ordinary way from about the age of three, and

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Speaker 1: it gets better and better until researchers believe that somewhere

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Speaker 1: between eight and ten is when the typical child can

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Speaker 1: usually regulate their emotions and therefore the behaviors in a

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Speaker 1: reasonable way most of the time, in most circumstances, with

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Speaker 1: a lot of caveats, right, because if they're hungry, or

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Speaker 1: they're tired, or they're stressed, or if they're.

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Speaker 2: Feeling the forty two.

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Speaker 1: Well I'm more than forty two, now, did I say

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Speaker 1: with it? No? But I did feel targeted when you

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Speaker 1: looked at me the way that you said that.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I was talking about me.

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Speaker 1: You're not quite forty two anymore either. It's not just

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Speaker 1: emotion regulation, though, there's also language limitations. So children do

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Speaker 1: know how to communicate, and therefore we expect, since they

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Speaker 1: know how to talk, we expect that they're going to

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Speaker 1: share with us their feelings all the time.

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Speaker 2: At this age, as a young parent, there was a

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Speaker 2: massive emphasis on the terrible twos. Oh yes, but as

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Speaker 2: we parented each of our children, we actually recognize that

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Speaker 2: two was quite manageable compared to the three was not.

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Speaker 2: Three was where it really hit. And I don't know

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Speaker 2: if that's because we're progressed as a human race, and

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Speaker 2: we've been able to kind of start to manage our

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Speaker 2: own emotions around two years. But at three, they're so

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Speaker 2: much more articulate. They're so much more capable in these

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Speaker 2: tiny little.

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Speaker 1: Bodies, except when they get angry, except when they become

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Speaker 1: emotionally dysregulated, and the size of their emotions, like the

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Speaker 1: emotional intensity of a three year old is massive. The

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Speaker 1: only other place that I see the emotional intensity of

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Speaker 1: a three year old is an angry red pea platter

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Speaker 1: who gets cut off or who isn't being allowed to

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Speaker 1: drive fast enough. That was so funny in my head.

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Speaker 1: You're not even smiling at me. I thought that was

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Speaker 1: a really great.

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Speaker 2: No, because I wouldn't say it was a pea plater.

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Speaker 2: I'd say it's a middle age a.

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Speaker 1: Boomer, maybe a boomer there is anyway, Let's move on.

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Speaker 1: So we've got inhibition and impulse control low, we've got

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Speaker 1: high emotional intensity. We've got limited language capacity. Hitting isn

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Speaker 1: munication when words fail, when frustration and other needs simply

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Speaker 1: become overwhelming. And I just want to emphasize before we

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Speaker 1: get into my three solutions, you might have others because

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Speaker 1: we haven't discussed this ahead of time. This behavior, well,

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Speaker 1: it isn't Every child doesn't do it. It's not considered

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Speaker 1: developmentally inappropriate. It's normal. It's typically going to happen when

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Speaker 1: children are less mature. The only time that I see

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Speaker 1: it with older children is when they are extremely dysregulated,

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Speaker 1: or when you have a neuro developmentally challenged child. So

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Speaker 1: if you've got a neurodivergent child, then you might see

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Speaker 1: it in older kids as well. In fact, I was

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Speaker 1: at a school about a month ago, and a child

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Speaker 1: escaped the classroom that they were and they ran into

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Speaker 1: the room where I was giving a talk to students,

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Speaker 1: literally raced up the front and looked at me and

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Speaker 1: then whacked me. They kind of as they did it,

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Speaker 1: I think they realized that I wasn't somebody that they

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Speaker 1: were familiar with. They didn't know who I was, and

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Speaker 1: they didn't know what they were doing, and they really

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Speaker 1: pulled the well, it wasn't a punch, but they really

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Speaker 1: pulled back as they made connection with me. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't bothered by it, didn't hurt me at all.

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Speaker 1: They whacked me across the shoulder. It wasn't like they

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Speaker 1: hit me in the head or anything like that. But

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Speaker 1: this was a child who had some cognitive difficulties, some

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Speaker 1: cognitive challenges, and so sometimes you'll see that kind of

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Speaker 1: behavior with older kids as well. After the break, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna map out the three things that you can do

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Speaker 1: to help your child when they are hitting inappropriately and

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Speaker 1: it just keeps happening and happening. Okay, Kylie. I remember

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Speaker 1: getting this distressed phone call from my brother when he

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Speaker 1: just said, our child keeps on hitting his mum, and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what we do. We've tried to hold

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Speaker 1: his hands down, we've tried to tell him to stop it.

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Speaker 1: We don't like it. We've lectured him, we've tried to

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Speaker 1: hit him back, and he's still doing it. We don't

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Speaker 1: know what to do. I mean, he was beside himself

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Speaker 1: and this has been going on for about three months.

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Speaker 1: It's not like it was a one and done thing.

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Speaker 1: It was in during So when this happens, I've got

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Speaker 1: a couple of things that I think are worth emphasizing.

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Speaker 1: The first is that hitting is not okay, period, and

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Speaker 1: our children need to know that we can. We should.

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Speaker 1: It's incumbent upon us to set really clear limits to

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Speaker 1: let our children know, and maybe even by holding their

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Speaker 1: hand and holding it away and saying we have soft hands.

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Speaker 1: We do not hit. It's not nice to hit. It

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Speaker 1: hurts the whole gentle parenting thing. I'm not suggesting that

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Speaker 1: we get tough, that we get nasty, that we even

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Speaker 1: hurt our child, but we have to communicate clearly, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: this is a boundary. You've crossed it. It's not okay.

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Speaker 1: Now we can do it lovingly, we can do it gently,

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Speaker 1: but our children need to know clearly you are not

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Speaker 1: allowed to hit me.

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Speaker 2: You gave that big long list that your brother shared

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Speaker 2: with you. Of all the things they tried, the one

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Speaker 2: thing they didn't try up until that point was actually

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Speaker 2: providing him with another outlet. The biggest challenge we have

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Speaker 2: is that we think that because emotions are something that

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Speaker 2: we feel, then they don't require action. But in order

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Speaker 2: for us to process emotion, the most effective way is movement.

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Speaker 2: So when we're frustrated or when we're angry, that's actually

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Speaker 2: when I do the best cleaning in my house. Not

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Speaker 2: only is it the.

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Speaker 1: Best cleaning should get you irritated more, I do it

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Speaker 1: so fast right.

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Speaker 2: There is so much energy stored in my body through

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Speaker 2: that emotion that the best thing I can do is

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Speaker 2: find a positive outlet. I remember when our eldest was

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Speaker 2: probably she'd actually started school, and she was having some really,

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Speaker 2: really big emotions, and so we taught her to draw

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Speaker 2: angry pictures. When she was really worked up. We'd pull

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Speaker 2: out the crayons and she would just do these massive

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Speaker 2: storm clouds, and we told her she could draw as

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Speaker 2: big as she wants, and it worked really well, so

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Speaker 2: well that we got a quite frustraded phone call from

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Speaker 2: the school one day because she'd gotten in trouble and

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Speaker 2: she was really frustrated. So she grabbed a text and

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Speaker 2: drew all over the carpet, And when they rang and

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Speaker 2: told me, I knew exactly what she'd done, and I

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Speaker 2: was so proud of her because instead of her using

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Speaker 2: all of these terrible words or worse, beating someone, beating

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Speaker 2: somebody else up, she had done exactly what we taught her.

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Speaker 2: We just obviously had an emphasized paper was a really

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Speaker 2: important part of the process.

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Speaker 1: All right, So I'm going to check out all of

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Speaker 1: my notes and I'm just going to run through handful

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Speaker 1: things that are going to be useful. Number One, we

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Speaker 1: need to stay regulated ourselves. If we become disregulated, it's

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Speaker 1: not going to work. So we've got to be the adult.

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Speaker 1: Even though they're trying to hit us they're three, the

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Speaker 1: reality is, yes, it hurts a little bit, but they're

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Speaker 1: not generally going to cause any significant damage either to

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Speaker 1: us or to property.

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Speaker 2: I think the thing that parents get really scared of

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Speaker 2: is my child's hitting me at three, They're going to

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Speaker 2: still be hitting me at fifteen. They're still going to

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Speaker 2: be hitting me. You know, and become violent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they will grow out of it, especially if you

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Speaker 1: set clear limits. So be regulated, be the adult the

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Speaker 1: note that's not okay. But you can also then redirect them.

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Speaker 1: So distraction and redirection are the answers. Like you said, movement,

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Speaker 1: doing some drawing.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they want to hit a pillow, Like, if they

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Speaker 2: really want that punching kind of motion, then give them

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Speaker 2: a punching pillow or a punching bag.

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Speaker 1: I don't like that one. I mean, people can make

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Speaker 1: up their own minds. I don't like the one because

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Speaker 1: it's still it normalizes the act of hitting as an

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Speaker 1: outlet for aggression or frustration or dysregulation. And I'd rather

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Speaker 1: redirect it into something else that can be physical. But

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Speaker 1: perhaps that's less violent, because if it.

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Speaker 2: Is okay, if you're making a bigger deal of it

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Speaker 2: than it needs to be. I think that it's a

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Speaker 2: completely appropriate way to let off some steam. Maybe did

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Speaker 2: we should do a smashroom for toddlers?

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Speaker 1: How good would that bee? Put the helmet on, put

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Speaker 1: the gloves on, let's go. There are a couple of

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Speaker 1: other things to keep in mind. To bear in mind

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Speaker 1: here high emotions, long intelligence, so as so long as

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Speaker 1: the kids know they're not allowed to hurt people of property.

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Speaker 1: I'm probably not too bothered about what they're doing. It's

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Speaker 1: really about that distraction. And I also think once they've

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Speaker 1: calmed down, we want to have I'm constantly emphasizing the

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Speaker 1: three is of effective discipline. What do you need right now?

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Speaker 1: If you can't give them what they need right now

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Speaker 1: because they're so disregulated that you can't communicate, wait till

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Speaker 1: they've calmed down and then problem solved. There was clearly

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Speaker 1: an unmet need there. What are we going to do

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Speaker 1: next time? And with rehearsal, I mean you're not going

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Speaker 1: to get their first first go.

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Speaker 2: And not with a three year old. It's it's going

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Speaker 2: to take a long time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like you look at how long it takes to

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Speaker 1: learn to tie up shoelacers or learn how to write

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Speaker 1: their name, learn to walk. Regulating emotions is way harder

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Speaker 1: than any of those things. But on repeat, what are

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Speaker 1: we going to do next time that happens? We failed

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Speaker 1: that time? What did we agree on? So? What can

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Speaker 1: we do next time? How can I remind you? On repeat?

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Speaker 1: Lots of empathy, lots of perspective taking, lots of conversation,

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Speaker 1: around this, and by the time they're around about I

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Speaker 1: don't know, thirteen fourteen, they usually will have stopped it

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Speaker 1: just in time for the next brain explosion, which will

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Speaker 1: kick it off for again.

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Speaker 2: You're not making anyone feel very good right now. You

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Speaker 2: know one of the other techniques that's so powerful, And

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Speaker 2: I remember reading somewhere it's not enough to do it

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Speaker 2: in the moment. You actually have to practice with your

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Speaker 2: kids when they're calm. Yeah, yeah, but breathing is so powerful,

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Speaker 2: teaching your children to take some deep breaths when they

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Speaker 2: feel like all of that pent up energy is about

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Speaker 2: to explode out of them.

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Speaker 1: I remember that time when Emily was probably about four

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Speaker 1: or five and she was having the biggest dummy spit.

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Speaker 1: She had been violent, she'd been throwing things and kicking,

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Speaker 1: and I took it to her bedroom and said, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to stay with you unless you kick me out.

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Speaker 1: But I know that you're really angry right now and

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Speaker 1: we need to work through this. And she jumped on

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Speaker 1: the bed hit under the blankets and starting it and

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Speaker 1: just being a white animal under the blankets. And we

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Speaker 1: did that grounding technique, the five four three two one

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Speaker 1: grounding technique and she did not want to do it.

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Speaker 1: I said, I, reckon, even under the blankets, there's five

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Speaker 1: things you can see. Tell me five things you can see.

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Speaker 1: And she's screamed and she said, no, I'm not doing it.

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Speaker 1: And I said, well, I reckon, if I was under

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Speaker 1: the blanket with you, I'd be able to see. And

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Speaker 1: I five things the hair on her arms, her knee

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Speaker 1: sticking into her chin because of the way she was sitting,

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Speaker 1: the sheets, and so on, and then four things you

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Speaker 1: can feel, and I talked her about how I could

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Speaker 1: feel it getting hot under there, and I could feel

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Speaker 1: the sheets rustling against my arm and so on. And

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Speaker 1: then three things that you can hear. And I said,

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Speaker 1: can you tell me three things that you can hear?

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Speaker 1: And she said no, And I said, I bet that

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Speaker 1: if you did tell me, you could hear your breathing.

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Speaker 1: You're heavy, angy breathing, and you could hear my voice,

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Speaker 1: and maybe you could hear the sheets rustling. And then

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Speaker 1: I said, work about two things you can smell? Can

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Speaker 1: you tell me that? And I could feel I could

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Speaker 1: hear her calming down, and she said, I'm not telling

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Speaker 1: you what I can smell. And I said, I reckon,

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Speaker 1: you can smell your stinky feet under the sheets, and

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Speaker 1: she laughed and I was like, gotcha. And then one

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Speaker 1: thing you can taste, and then she told me what

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Speaker 1: she could taste. She gave me her standard answer, my spit,

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Speaker 1: and within a minute she was calm, and she climbed

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Speaker 1: out from under the sheets and she gave me a cuddle,

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Speaker 1: and then we had the chat what do we do

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Speaker 1: next time? Should we practice it now? And it was

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Speaker 1: so useful. Grunting techniques, breathing, distraction, drawing, physical activity, these

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Speaker 1: are the solutions to work through it, and then the

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Speaker 1: problem solving conversation comes later.

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Speaker 2: So you've talked about all of these things that we

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Speaker 2: can do to help kind of work through it after

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Speaker 2: the fact, but there's a couple of things that we

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Speaker 2: probably just need to tap into to help kind of

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Speaker 2: prevent us from getting to that point. We talk about holts.

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Speaker 2: If we can make sure our children are fed, they're

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Speaker 2: not hungry.

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Speaker 1: Not hungry, angry, landly title stress.

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Speaker 2: We're kind of go a long way to actually preventing

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Speaker 2: having these major meltdowns. We're not going to be able

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Speaker 2: to stop it all the time. But I think that

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Speaker 2: food and sleep there are biggest contributors more times than not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and connection. I mean sometimes kids are just lashing

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Speaker 1: out because they're bored. And keep your kids off screens

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Speaker 1: because they will often like shout when they can't have

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Speaker 1: a screen. And frankly, if your child is under three,

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Speaker 1: your kids don't need screens. The reason they've got screens

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Speaker 1: because they're convenient for us, not because they're good for

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Speaker 1: the kids. We need to wrap that up there, otherwise

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Speaker 1: we're going to turn this into a full length seminar.

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Speaker 1: The Happy Families Podcast is produced by Justin Roland from

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Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Memhammits provides research, amin and additional support and

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Speaker 1: if you would like more resources to help your little

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Speaker 1: people and their big feelings, we're going to link to

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Speaker 1: our Little People Big Feelings webinar in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: It will make a world of difference when you're dealing

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Speaker 1: with your kiddos and their big moments. If you need

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Speaker 1: the pod, thanks so much for listening, Have a wonderful,

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Speaker 1: wonderful day, and we will be back tomorrow to talk

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Speaker 1: about how we can filter apps for a phone or

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Speaker 1: whether we should just trust our child. It's a tricky question.

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Speaker 1: On the Happy Families Podcast tomorrow we'll talk to you,

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Speaker 1: then