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Speaker 1: The Palmerston Watchhouse has once again reached a crisis point

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Speaker 1: and is overflowing with prisoners. That's according to the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police Association. The union says there were ninety two

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Speaker 1: detainees in custody yesterday, including seventy six corrections prisoners who

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Speaker 1: were no longer supposed to be there. The president, Nathan Finn,

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Speaker 1: says the situation is putting police officers and prisoners at

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Speaker 1: an unacceptable risk. He joins me in the studio, good morning, Finny.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Katy, Good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, Finny, ninety two people all up at the Palmeston Watchhouse.

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Speaker 1: What's the maximum capacity there?

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Speaker 2: The maxim capacity is determined obviously based on a number

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Speaker 2: of factors, Katie, pretending on what the people are in

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Speaker 2: custody for the offenses, the violence obviously, the tendency for

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Speaker 2: violence towards other prisoners excepter. So it's hard to say

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Speaker 2: what the actual capacity is going on from that media

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Speaker 2: release that we submitted yesterday and what we're speaking about today,

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Speaker 2: I know that I got an update last this morning

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Speaker 2: in relation to Hammony and Cassy. We had excess of

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Speaker 2: one hundred in custody.

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Speaker 3: Last night, So more than one hundred in custody.

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Speaker 2: In Palmerston last night, yeah, which is again, let's strict

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Speaker 2: contradiction to what obviously the COLP said they're going to

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Speaker 2: move Corrections prisoners from our watchouses. This is still occurring,

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Speaker 2: the pressure is still being placed on our custody facilities

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Speaker 2: and this is also indicating obviously having greater effects on

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Speaker 2: our obviously frontline capability.

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Speaker 1: So so as of this morning, more than one hundred

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Speaker 1: people in the Palmeston watchhouse. In terms of staffing. Who's

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Speaker 1: staffing at the police or have you got Corrections staff

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Speaker 1: in there?

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Speaker 2: No, we used to have Corrections and when the announcement

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Speaker 2: was made that Corrections are going to move out of

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Speaker 2: our watchhouses, they move their staff out and they left

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Speaker 2: us to manage these prisoners. We've seen this in excess

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Speaker 2: of This is not new, Cady. This has been going

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Speaker 2: on for months and our members are quite frighttily sick

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Speaker 2: of it and waiting for a death and custody to

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Speaker 2: occur because of it.

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Speaker 1: So they're seriously worried that that's going to be what happens.

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Speaker 2: They are very concerned, Catie, and and quite rightfully so,

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Speaker 2: like the conditions are inhumane to be people held for

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Speaker 2: days at a time in a cell where they can't move.

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Speaker 2: They can move around, and I know people and I

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Speaker 2: don't have any sympathy for people at commit defenses either,

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Speaker 2: but again it's placing our staff at risk because of

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Speaker 2: the pressures that being placed there.

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Speaker 1: Phinny, can you talk us through what those conditions are?

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Speaker 2: The conditions are Some of the cells are holding up

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Speaker 2: to fourteen to sixteen people in a cell, which is

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Speaker 2: roughly about for four point five meters by four point

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Speaker 2: five meters square, for them to sleep, for them to

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Speaker 2: step over each other, it's like playing tetris with people

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Speaker 2: in a cell. To make that remove and make that obviously,

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Speaker 2: if something happens in that cell and our staff are

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Speaker 2: required to enter that cell, they're severely outnumbered.

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Speaker 1: So Phinny, I just want to make this really clear

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Speaker 1: in my head because I know a lot of people

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Speaker 1: listening this morning, they'll be thinking to themselves, well, you

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Speaker 1: know what will fee if someone breaks the law? They

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Speaker 1: deserve to go into the watchhouse.

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Speaker 2: And we fully agree with that as well.

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Speaker 1: But the problem here is that we're talking about too

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Speaker 1: many people being housed in that watchhouse. How many of

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Speaker 1: them apologies if you already said this, but how many

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Speaker 1: of them are actually corrections prisoners?

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Speaker 2: So overnight we had seventy five corrections prisoners on tip

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Speaker 2: of our prisoners as well.

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Speaker 1: But there's no correction staff.

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Speaker 2: So unfortunately the Northern Territory Police staff are looking after

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Speaker 2: the corrections prisoners as well, and that obviously leads to

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Speaker 2: greater we need to transport them to court. So I've

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Speaker 2: got thirty one to go to court this morning, which

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Speaker 2: takes equivalent to five police vehicles off the road for

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Speaker 2: an extended period.

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Speaker 3: So the police are then taking them to court.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was what we got those contractors for

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Speaker 1: the you know the you know how with corrections we

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Speaker 1: got the contractors.

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Speaker 2: Katie, police are the ones that are conveying them to

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Speaker 2: court from the Parmestan watchaus into the day and courts.

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Speaker 1: So how many cars do you think are off the road?

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Speaker 1: Then as a result, at least five cars will be

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Speaker 1: off the road because they're transporting the prisoners to Is

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Speaker 1: it not the.

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Speaker 2: Poictest job, Katie. Our members are quite frustrated in doing that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, is it usual practice that

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police if you've got prisoners in the

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Speaker 1: watchhouse that you would transport them to court.

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Speaker 2: If we have prisoners ourselves, if we have prisons from

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Speaker 2: overnight they're required to go to court, we convey them prisoners,

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Speaker 2: not just not our prisoners and the Corrections prisoners as well.

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Speaker 3: But at the moment this.

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Speaker 2: Morning is that we had thirty one to go to

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Speaker 2: court this morning out of that in excess of one hundred.

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Speaker 1: So, Finny, you are seriously concerned about the safety of

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Speaker 1: police officers.

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Speaker 3: You feel as though they're outnumbered, definitely.

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Speaker 2: And definitely in our facility we've got sometimes we've seen

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Speaker 2: three members of our staff looking after that many prisoners.

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Speaker 2: If something happens within that side of their affility facility,

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Speaker 2: our members are placed at risk and it's an unacceptable risk.

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Speaker 2: If something does actually kick off in there, they haven't

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Speaker 2: got the ability to respond to that.

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Speaker 1: Would it be acceptable in your eyes if Corrections were

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Speaker 1: providing staff again, Corrections should.

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Speaker 2: Be fighting stuff, they should be riding. Obviously, the safe

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Speaker 2: secure of these prisoners in their facilities, that's what we've

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Speaker 2: been asking for. We haven't got the capacity or obviously

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Speaker 2: the staff to deal with this, and it's obviously having

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Speaker 2: an effect on our front line ability to conduct policing.

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Speaker 1: Finny, in terms of you know, like some of the

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Speaker 1: ins and outs of this, I guess, and some of

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Speaker 1: the impacts then on daily operations for the Northern Territory Police.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you just touched on.

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Speaker 1: The fact that there's going to be vehicles that are

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Speaker 1: out of action. Then in terms of being able to

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Speaker 1: respond to crime, our officers then being pulled away from

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Speaker 1: the front line to manage and maintain safety within the watchhouse.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, Katie. And that's the biggest issue we're seeing. That's

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Speaker 2: the biggest frustration we're seeing that we're relying on overtime

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Speaker 2: to obviously staff these facilities, the custody facilities with these

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Speaker 2: extra people in there, and sometimes that's our members have

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Speaker 2: burned out. That members are exhausted. We've seen that over

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Speaker 2: many months and many years, Skatie. We just can't keep

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Speaker 2: up with the demand of what's being placed upon the

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Speaker 2: Northern Churchy Police for their resourcing.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying at the moment police are being taken

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Speaker 1: away from their general patrolling duties to go and help

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Speaker 1: out at the watchouse.

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Speaker 2: That is correct, Katie, and that's where our members are frustrated.

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Speaker 3: How many do you reckon would be taken to do

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Speaker 3: this day?

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Speaker 2: It's each day. It's a number of people each day, Katie,

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Speaker 2: that have to go into the watchhouse to obviously look

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Speaker 2: after those.

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Speaker 3: Prisoners, like five of them, two of them.

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Speaker 2: I'd have to obviously confirm obviously to a number of people.

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Speaker 2: But the pressures are being placed on their staff inside

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Speaker 2: of the custom facilities are seeing them not being able

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Speaker 2: to cope.

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Speaker 1: Finny, what is your message for the government this morning.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you and I have spoken on so many

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Speaker 1: occasions about this very issue, and it doesn't seem to

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Speaker 1: be getting better, I know. And it's a juggle in

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Speaker 1: the sense that I know people listening will be going well.

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Speaker 1: We expect people to be put in the watchhouse if

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Speaker 1: they break the law and if they are dangerous, and

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Speaker 1: then appear in court.

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Speaker 3: But it is a real juggle at the moment.

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Speaker 2: It definitely is a real juggle, Coady. And we're seeing

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Speaker 2: it does fluctuate in the number of people committing offenses,

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Speaker 2: and we've seen our offenses coming down, but we're still

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Speaker 2: seeing a higher number of prisoners in our watchhouses and

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Speaker 2: that's not acceptable, Codie. To our staff it's impacting our

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Speaker 2: ability to conduct policing operations, our policing resources to be

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Speaker 2: placed on the road to respond to members of the community.

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Speaker 2: We're seeing this real impact and the stress and fatigue

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Speaker 2: that have been placed on our custody staff within their

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Speaker 2: facilities is enormous and it's a genuine health and safety

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Speaker 2: risk to our members and we are over that again.

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Speaker 2: If you break the law, I expect you to be

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Speaker 2: in custody and don't hesitate to have had the conversation.

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Speaker 2: I'm more worried about my police and my police officers

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Speaker 2: that are using these facilities.

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Speaker 1: So what is your message to the government.

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Speaker 2: The message to the government is they need to have

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Speaker 2: a plan. They need to have a correction splan. We've

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Speaker 2: seen it, announcements being made that they've got a blue

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Speaker 2: prian going forward about how we're going to live. When

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Speaker 2: is the announcement about a new correctional facility because we're

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Speaker 2: seeing the current ones that can't keep up a capacity.

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Speaker 2: What is happening. We've been hurt quiet nothing for months

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Speaker 2: now in relation to what is happening. We need a

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Speaker 2: new jail, we need a bigger capacity to hold these people.

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Speaker 2: And Police watch House is not.

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Speaker 1: That, Finny. There might be some people listening this morning

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Speaker 1: concerned that we might see a situation where the police

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Speaker 1: don't take somebody to the watch house, or don't respond

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Speaker 1: to a crime, or don't arrest somebody because there is

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Speaker 1: no room at the watch house. Do you have any

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Speaker 1: worry that the police will do that.

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Speaker 2: Katie Bowl reports members are already doing that. Fortunately, we're

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Speaker 2: a nearly capacity last night. Again, we have limited ability

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Speaker 2: to take people into protective custody into the watchhouse environment

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Speaker 2: because we haven't got the room to do that. So

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Speaker 2: potentially people are remaining on the street, potentially committing offenses

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Speaker 2: and not going out to watchesse.

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Speaker 1: So you are saying that there could be situations right

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Speaker 1: now where people are committing crimes and not going to

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Speaker 1: the watchhouse because there's no room.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, Cati and that's where our members are reporting. Wow,

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Speaker 2: And that's where I'm at crisis, my staff for at crisis.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Our police officers don't come here to walk past things,

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Speaker 2: and they want to put people behind bars that deserve

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Speaker 2: to be behind bars. And unfortunately the current situation is

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Speaker 2: limiting that a bit.

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Speaker 1: Finny, just before I let you go, I understand the

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Speaker 1: government's police retention bonus is being rolled out to officers.

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Speaker 1: What's been the reaction from members?

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Speaker 2: This is disgusting, Katie. This has actually pissed members off,

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Speaker 2: and quite rightfully so it's discriminative. Again. The announcement that

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Speaker 2: was the broadcast was put out by the Northern Churchy

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Speaker 2: Police Force again yesterday. I've had discussions with the government

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Speaker 2: regarding this retention bonus and I lobbied for it before

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Speaker 2: a pre election last year. To the Chief Minister who

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Speaker 2: agreed to it, we told them that the current obviously

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Speaker 2: commitment was going to be devisive and devise our police force. Currently,

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Speaker 2: we're seeing that any member that the lottery, that any

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Speaker 2: member receives an anniversary on this year gets paid a bonus.

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Speaker 1: So is there five years, ten.

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Speaker 2: Years, so ten fifteen, twenty twenty five, they receive a

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Speaker 2: bonus if we went to that being tenzery for ten

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Speaker 2: ten years, So the same person that's started eleven years

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Speaker 2: this year gets nothing, and our members are quite rightfully

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Speaker 2: pissed off. It's discriminative against those members. I believe that

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Speaker 2: there's about one hundred and eighty members that will actually

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Speaker 2: receive the bonus this year out of the seventeen hundred

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Speaker 2: and eighty six members, I think we've got at the

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Speaker 2: moment so quite rightfully, our members.

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Speaker 1: Are pissed how many are missing out? You know, like

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Speaker 1: how many of them don't fall into you know that

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Speaker 1: ten year, fifteen, twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: So there's around sixteen hundred members out of the seventeen

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Speaker 2: hundred and eighty six that don't receive and will not

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Speaker 2: receive a retention bonus under this scheme.

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Speaker 3: This is.

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Speaker 2: It's doing nothing to hold our attention of our experience members.

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Speaker 2: I've said that it needs to continue for at least

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Speaker 2: five years so everyone has an entitlement to get that

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Speaker 2: and to make sure we're rewarding that experience and remaining

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Speaker 2: experience in the Northern Territory Police Force. The current initiative

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Speaker 2: is doing nothing for retention. It's actually turning to resignation

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Speaker 2: more than anything.

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Speaker 1: Any word from the Northern Territory government as to whether

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Speaker 1: they will run it for five years so that people

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Speaker 1: don't miss out.

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Speaker 2: I've had discussions with them, but getting back to February

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Speaker 2: and I was told I couldn't discuss it with the

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Speaker 2: Chief Minister and she refused to discuss this with me

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Speaker 2: because of the obviously the media attention back then when

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Speaker 2: we're obviously advocating for that. The Northern Territory Police Force

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Speaker 2: have been in consultation with the Chief Minister and they

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Speaker 2: haven't had any conversation or anything since February this year

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Speaker 2: with them. So when I get an announcement yesterday a broadcast

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Speaker 2: is being and they're being paid. This is unfortunately a

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Speaker 2: decision by the Police Executive and also the Chief Minister

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Speaker 2: to take this action, and we're not supportive of that, Katie.

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Speaker 2: We're not supportive of being discriminative against a large percentage

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Speaker 2: of our members and it's quite rightfully pathetic.

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Speaker 1: Phinny. What do you say to those listening this morning

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Speaker 1: who might be saying, well, you know what, we don't

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Speaker 1: have the money to be able to pay it out

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Speaker 1: for five years.

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Speaker 2: I said, if we haven't got the money, why do

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Speaker 2: it for one and that not for another? Why be

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Speaker 2: discriminative against all the hard working men and women of

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Speaker 2: the police Force which you're turning to to make sure

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Speaker 2: your lord or a platform is delivered, and we are delivering.

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Speaker 2: We are delivering in huge numbers. We are doing an

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Speaker 2: amazing amount of work in the background, and that to

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Speaker 2: be discriminative against sixteen hundred of our members is quite

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Speaker 2: rightly disgusting by this Northern Territory government.

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Speaker 1: Phinny, I'm gonna have to wrap up, but just very quickly.

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Speaker 1: I mean members getting pierced off that they feel as

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Speaker 1: though they are the fallback for everything at this point

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Speaker 1: in time. I mean, you're talking crime on the streets,

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Speaker 1: Obviously we need the police. You're talking the watch houses overflowing,

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Speaker 1: obviously you need the police. Our officers, you know, sort

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Speaker 1: of getting annoyed with that, and then the fact that

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Speaker 1: maybe the pay bonus and the retention stuff isn't being

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Speaker 1: sorted through is like as quickly as they'd like.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, these are announcements to secure votes prior to election, Cady.

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Speaker 2: These were made and this has been renegged on. This

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Speaker 2: is actually creating a worse effect on our members because

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Speaker 2: of the way they've rolled this out. And we've said

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Speaker 2: that from day dot you cannot discriminate against a large

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Speaker 2: percent of these members and their experienced members Cuddy that

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Speaker 2: have stuck around through the hard times are the Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory Police Force and are committed going forward to actually

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Speaker 2: providing that safety to the community in the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: and they are quite rightfully pissed off and going into

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Speaker 2: a wage negotiation which we're still going through, which we're

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Speaker 2: hoping to get to a vote to our members this week.

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Speaker 2: That's going to have a great effect on that as well, Cady.

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Speaker 2: They need to be supported, They need to make sure

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Speaker 2: that this government has their backs because they are. It's

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Speaker 2: not about feeling like they're being the ones that have

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Speaker 2: to resolve this. They are the ones that have to

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Speaker 2: be resolved with this.

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Speaker 1: What's the rise going to be? What's the what vote

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Speaker 1: are we going are they going to this week?

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Speaker 2: So the rise that's coming out will have a broadcast

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Speaker 2: to our membership. Again, it won't be endorsed by the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory Police Association, but it'll be placed to our

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Speaker 2: members that for a vote. As per our conversations with

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Speaker 2: the government, again, we want to do the best possible

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Speaker 2: deal for police and make sure that they're supporter and

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Speaker 2: the current actions being supported and being put out there

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Speaker 2: by the government are providing that support to our members.

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Speaker 2: And quite rightfully, we're sick of it, and we represent

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Speaker 2: ninety eight percent of our members, Cady. We hear it.

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Speaker 2: We hear the frustrations and our members and they are

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Speaker 2: absolutely frustrated to a point where why do we even

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Speaker 2: buy the Katie.

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Speaker 1: So are you able to tell us what the percentage

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Speaker 1: is at this point, Finnie, or do you have to

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Speaker 1: wait till that broadcast goes out.

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Speaker 2: Wait till the broadcast comes out of Katie. But obviously

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Speaker 2: we've been on before. We want to see in excess

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Speaker 2: of five percent. We haven't got to that mark. And

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Speaker 2: the offer Karrent offer is somewhat lower than that. And

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Speaker 2: again we'll place it to our members for their vote,

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Speaker 2: and they're for their attention.

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Speaker 1: So we'll waiting here, Nathan Finn. We are going to

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Speaker 1: have to leave it there, President of the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Police Association. Always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie. And again I like to obviously sing

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Speaker 2: out to our members in blue and say thank you

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Speaker 2: very much for what you do. We've got your back,

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Speaker 2: and we'll continue to fight for better conditions and better

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Speaker 2: work conditions for you and make sure you're support and

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Speaker 2: the experience of our experienced police officers are rewarded, not

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Speaker 2: just because it's a lottery you fall on one year,

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Speaker 2: you get a retention bonus, we want to see.

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Speaker 1: This going on forward, Nathan Finn, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Katy,