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Speaker 1: Already and this this is.

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Speaker 2: The daily This is the daily.

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Speaker 1: Ohs oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Daily OS. It's Friday, the fifth of December.

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Speaker 1: I'm Emma Gillespie and Tam Klaski. Yesterday Spotify released its

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Speaker 1: annual wrapped feature for twenty twenty five. Now, this is

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Speaker 1: a yearly tradition I'm sure much of our audience is

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Speaker 1: familiar with, where millions of users get to see them

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Speaker 1: most listened to songs and artists for the year, among

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Speaker 1: plenty of other interesting stats. But alongside these personalized data drops,

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Speaker 1: Spotify also releases starts telling us about national listening trends.

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Speaker 1: And there's been a lot of discussion about one thing

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Speaker 1: this year, the absence of Australian artists from the top

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Speaker 1: of those lists. Today, we are going to explore why

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Speaker 1: this is the case and what we've learned earned from

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Speaker 1: Spotify rapp to twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Five and what an interesting topic for us to dive

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Speaker 2: into on a Friday. It's got a bit of tech

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Speaker 2: to it, it's got a lot of culture and music,

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Speaker 2: and it really is centered around our national identity as

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Speaker 2: a music institution. Why don't we start with Spotify rapped

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Speaker 2: as an idea and as a product. If you aren't

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Speaker 2: engaged with it, give us a sense of what happens

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Speaker 2: on Spotify rap day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, just in case you were living under a

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Speaker 1: rock or you weren't on social media yesterday. Usually around

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Speaker 1: early December, every year, Spotify releases what it calls Rapped,

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Speaker 1: which is basically a summary of its users listening habits

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Speaker 1: over the past year. So users at an individual level

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Speaker 1: get to see their top artists, top songs, podcasts, how

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Speaker 1: many minutes they've listened to music, what percentile they're in at,

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Speaker 1: the kind of top end of fandom for their favorite artists,

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Speaker 1: A bunch of really interesting stats.

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Speaker 2: Just quickly, Who was your top artist this year?

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Speaker 1: Gang of youths? Of course?

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Speaker 2: Okay, very cool? Mine was Sam Fender. Both quite similar

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Speaker 2: in the mismai we should hang.

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Speaker 1: Out yep, very aligned. And I've got to say Spotify

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Speaker 1: has gotten really good at packaging this data up, so

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Speaker 1: it releases it in the form of very sharable infographics.

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Speaker 1: They look really cool, and it's become this huge social

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Speaker 1: media moment. Millions of people post their Wrapped results to

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Speaker 1: their Instagram stories. That is how Spotify has designed it

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Speaker 1: and for a bit of context. In terms of scale,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about two hundred and eighty one million paid

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Speaker 1: subscribers who are with Spotify globally and that includes some

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Speaker 1: thirteen million Aussie listeners.

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Speaker 2: So about half of Australia went through a Spotify wrapped

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Speaker 2: moment yesterday. We got the results. A new feature even

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Speaker 2: showed us how old the platform thinks we are based

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Speaker 2: on our listening habits.

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Speaker 1: Yep, that was a good one.

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Speaker 2: I'm twenty seven, which I was quite flatted with as

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Speaker 2: a thirty year old.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, my life flashed before my eyes I read that

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Speaker 1: I'm seventy.

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Speaker 2: Okay, right, yeah, not good. I'll turn up the font

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Speaker 2: size on this script. What were some of the big

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Speaker 2: takeaways though?

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Speaker 1: In terms of the music, Yeah, so, the top artists

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Speaker 1: streamed by Australian listeners this year were Taylor Swift, followed

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Speaker 1: by Drake Morgan, Wolland, The Weekend and Billie Eilish. In

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Speaker 1: terms of songs, the number one tracks for Aussie listeners

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Speaker 1: were Ordinary by Alex Warren, followed by That's So True

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Speaker 1: by Gracie Abrams, Birds of a Feather by Billie Eilish,

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Speaker 1: Back to Friends by Somber and Bruno Mars, who rounded

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Speaker 1: out the top five for his track with Rose.

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Speaker 2: So if you look at the artists that have topped

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Speaker 2: both that song list but also the general artists list,

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Speaker 2: am I wrong in saying that they're all American?

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Speaker 1: Well, technically they're all North America, but you're not wrong.

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Speaker 1: It's a mix of US and Canadian artists that dominate

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Speaker 1: both those lists. They don't include any Aussie performers. I

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Speaker 1: guess there might be a bit of a loophole with Rose,

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Speaker 1: the K pop singer. She was born in New Zealand

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Speaker 1: moved to Australia when she was eight, before moving to

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Speaker 1: Korea as a teenager to pursue her K pop career,

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Speaker 1: So I don't know, maybe there's a loophole there. But otherwise, yep,

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Speaker 1: all North American artists.

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Speaker 2: And the list is clearly dominated by the biggest names

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Speaker 2: in global music. I want to talk a little bit

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Speaker 2: more about what that means and what we can read

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Speaker 2: into that. Before we get there, though, what Ossie artists

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Speaker 2: did we listen to this year?

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Speaker 1: So along with these lists of most listen to artists

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Speaker 1: and songs overall, Spotify also crunched the numbers When it

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Speaker 1: comes to our top local artists, the Wiggles came in

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Speaker 1: at number one. Now I think you can imagine probably

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Speaker 1: a lot of parents out there streaming a lot of

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Speaker 1: Wiggles against their will. But congrats to the Wiggles. The

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Speaker 1: list also included the Kid laroi, ac DC, Hilltop Woods

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Speaker 1: and Tame Implor. Interestingly, the top local song for twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five was riptied by vance.

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Speaker 2: Joy, which is more than ten years old.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it came out in twenty thirteen. In fact, when

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Speaker 1: you look more closely at the top Local Songs list,

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Speaker 1: none of them are actually new releases from twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: That trend is also reflected in the most listened to

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Speaker 1: Local albums of the year as well, with two records

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Speaker 1: from the eighties making it into the top five. We

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Speaker 1: had Back in Black from Akadaka and Kick from in Excess.

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Speaker 2: It's quite a striking set of data because clearly, when

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Speaker 2: it comes to new music, Aussie listeners seem to be

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Speaker 2: favoring international tracks. If they do return to their local

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Speaker 2: music roots, it's in more of a nostalgic sense, right,

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Speaker 2: Like it's either for children's entertainment, trying to make the

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Speaker 2: kids be quiet in the back of the car, or

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Speaker 2: it's a throwback to their childhood in eighties or more

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Speaker 2: recent episode of high school back in twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that is certainly how things seem from

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Speaker 1: the Spotify data. We'll get a little bit more into

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Speaker 1: the kind of critical analysis around that, but it's not

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Speaker 1: as though this trend has taken us fully by surprise. Sam.

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Speaker 1: You will know that The Daily Os actually worked with

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Speaker 1: Creative Australia earlier this year to look into listening behaviors

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Speaker 1: of Ozzie fans and the findings from that were really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Only eight percent of the ten thousand top streamed artists

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Speaker 1: in Australia were home grown.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: That's despite thirty three percent of respondents saying they actively

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Speaker 1: seek out Australian music.

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Speaker 2: So let me throw that back to you. So one

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Speaker 2: in three said they're looking for Ozsie music, but only

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Speaker 2: eight percent of the ten thousand most streamed artists are Aussie.

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Speaker 2: Ye did that research suggest why that could be the case?

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Speaker 1: Well, Creative Australia looked into discoverability. This is a really

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Speaker 1: important part of the conversation and according to its report,

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Speaker 1: ninety eight percent of Ossie's discover music through streaming platforms,

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Speaker 1: sixty six percent find it through social media, but the

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Speaker 1: report found that discovery tends to skew heavily towards international artists.

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Speaker 1: Now that's what we're seeing reflected in the Spotify numbers.

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Speaker 2: And when you say discovery in a Spotify sense or

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Speaker 2: any of the streaming apps, really what we mean by

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Speaker 2: that are things like new Songs of the week or

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Speaker 2: things that come across your homepage. They might be in

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Speaker 2: a Fresh Finds playlist. Yeah, that's what you mean by discovery.

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Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, And these algorithms put together personalized playlists that

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Speaker 1: are updated regularly to the DJ and the at constry

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Speaker 1: and they learn from your listening patterns and you know,

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Speaker 1: ultimately it's the platforms that decide which music to prioritize

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Speaker 1: in those playlists. Now, one of the key findings from

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Speaker 1: Creative Australia was that there is limited visibility of local

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Speaker 1: artists and that is affecting discovery. Young people said they

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Speaker 1: want to discover more Aussie music, but they just aren't

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Speaker 1: sure where to find it. In fact, sixty six percent

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Speaker 1: said they want to discover more Aussie music, and forty

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Speaker 1: two percent said they would even pay for a streaming

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Speaker 1: platform dedicated to Australian music. So the interest is there,

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Speaker 1: but they don't know where to find it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, woll I'd love to see how a local only

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Speaker 2: streaming platform would actually go in market and to see

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Speaker 2: interesting people would actually sign up to that. Are young

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Speaker 2: people less interested in music overall? And did we kind

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Speaker 2: of get a sense from these stats of if we're

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Speaker 2: listening to as much music as ever?

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Speaker 1: The research shows us that young people are really still

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Speaker 1: interested in music, they really care about it, and they're

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Speaker 1: willing to spend money on music they enjoy. They're paying

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Speaker 1: to see live gigs even with economic pressures. They're prioritizing

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Speaker 1: spending money on live music experiences. So it's not that

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Speaker 1: they're disengaged from music. But there does seem to be

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Speaker 1: a disconnect between live music patterns and Australian streaming patterns.

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Speaker 2: And we know that the kind of live music is

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Speaker 2: a bit downstream. Like you discover the artists first, you

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Speaker 2: begin to be obsessed with them exactly, then you go

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Speaker 2: and buy a constant ticket and a T shirt. How

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Speaker 2: have local artists responded to these discoverability concerns, particularly in

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Speaker 2: light of yesterday's data.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's no news story that many musicians have these

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Speaker 1: long standing complaints about how Spotify and other similar platforms

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Speaker 1: pay their artists. There are those concerns over discoverability algorithms,

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Speaker 1: and so this data has really reignited that conversation. It's ongoing.

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Speaker 1: But we know some Ossie artists have actually been leaving

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Speaker 1: Spotify or deciding not to release any new music through

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Speaker 1: the platform, and this is a really important part of

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Speaker 1: the context. So King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard, one

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Speaker 1: of Australia's most successful exports, actually removed their entire catalog

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Speaker 1: from Spotify a few months ago. That was in protest

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Speaker 1: of the Spotify CEO and co founder, who's been criticized

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Speaker 1: over his investments in a defense company that manufactures AI

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Speaker 1: military technology. Australian musician David Brady also left the platform

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Speaker 1: around the same time for a combination of the reasons

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Speaker 1: that I've touched on. Bridy wrote about his decision in

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Speaker 1: The Guardian and said that basically Spotify pays a artists

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Speaker 1: less than one cent per stream, which he called quote

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Speaker 1: insulting and completely unsustainable. Brady wrote this leads to a

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Speaker 1: situation where only the independently wealthy can create music, assuming

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Speaker 1: they're able to fight off the AI generated music currently

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Speaker 1: crowding onto the streaming platforms. He continued, quote, the removal

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Speaker 1: of my works won't make any significant dent in the

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Speaker 1: company's profits. It won't change my earnings much either, but

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Speaker 1: I can no longer be complicit. So a combination of

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Speaker 1: factors there that he touched on.

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Speaker 2: So a big day for Spotify. They obviously get a

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Speaker 2: lot of social media attention with everyone sharing their wrapped

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Speaker 2: kind of findings of the year, but they've had to

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Speaker 2: answer some hard questions as well. How did the company

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Speaker 2: respond to these really tricky questions around local music and

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Speaker 2: the listener behavior of Australian users.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we did get a statement from Ben Watts. He

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Speaker 1: Spotify's head of music for the Australian New Zealand region,

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Speaker 1: and he acknowledged that global artists have an enormous reach

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Speaker 1: in all markets. Really, but he told TDA that this

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Speaker 1: year we have seen a healthy mix of both homegrown

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Speaker 1: and international music. He said local audiences are connecting with

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Speaker 1: that music and its quote achieving remarkable momentum of its own.

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Speaker 1: What's continued to TDA that quote Spotify recognizes that it

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Speaker 1: has a key role to play in supporting Australia's music ecosystem.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twenty four alone, we paid over three hundred

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Speaker 1: million dollars to Australian rights holders, with more than half

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Speaker 1: going to independent artists and labels. What said, Australian music

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Speaker 1: is also traveling further than ever, and their global data

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Speaker 1: shows that open platforms like Spotify quote create opportunities for

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Speaker 1: local music to be discovered across the globe.

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Speaker 2: I think this leaves the Australian music industry in a

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Speaker 2: really interesting spot because it's clear that the core pillars

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Speaker 2: of what makes the music industry great and what makes

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Speaker 2: an artist great have changed, as with so many other industries,

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Speaker 2: particularly by to technology. What's your view on where things

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Speaker 2: kind of stand for Ossie music going forward?

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Speaker 1: We have this really complicated context. You know, we've shifted

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Speaker 1: away from radio plays and physical record sales as it

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Speaker 1: means to measure the success of artists. We have so

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Speaker 1: much connectedness with the world, and you know, we can

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Speaker 1: listen to artists from any country really within seconds. There

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Speaker 1: are some really positive stories to be told though, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's important to reflect on that Australian dance music,

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Speaker 1: for example, has seen huge growth. Streams have increased by

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Speaker 1: more than four hundred and nine million compared to last

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Speaker 1: year according to Spotify. And I mean look at rufus

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Speaker 1: Dusol a Sam Kazowski special. The Aussie trio recently set

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Speaker 1: a new record for the most tickets sold by an

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Speaker 1: artist or group for an electronic live tour after seven

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand people attended their shows this year

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Speaker 1: three quarters of a million. They're one of three Assiacs

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Speaker 1: nominated for a Grammy at Next Ceremony, along with Ammal

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Speaker 1: and the Sniffers and tame Im Parlor. Of course, so

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Speaker 1: we know local talent is punching above its weight on

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Speaker 1: the world stage. It's just whether or not new talent

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Speaker 1: can emerge. So I think we're going to see this

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Speaker 1: conversation continue. Discoverability conversations are certainly not going anywhere. We

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Speaker 1: know young people want to find and support ossie artists,

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Speaker 1: they just need better pathways to do that.

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Speaker 2: And that was a fantastic discussion. And I think that

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Speaker 2: if you want more of this, I think everyone should

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Speaker 2: probably subscribe to your TVA Culture newsletter.

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Speaker 1: Oh thank you, Sam It's a really good.

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Speaker 2: Read because it takes us a little bit further than

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Speaker 2: usual on some of these cultural stories. And I think

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Speaker 2: it's a great example of this chat because you've got

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Speaker 2: Spotify wrapped out there in the world. Yesterday it would

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Speaker 2: have been on everybody's social feeds. I love that you've

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Speaker 2: taken us one layer deeper. So thank you for that chat.

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Speaker 1: A pleasure, Sam, thanks for sharing it with me.

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Speaker 2: And thank you for joining us on the Daily os

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Speaker 2: this week. It's been a massive week of news here

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Speaker 2: with interviews and streaming discussions. We've got a whole big

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Speaker 2: week of news coming up for you next week as well.

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Speaker 2: Until then, we'll be back with the headlines in the

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Speaker 2: afternoon and chat to you later. My name is Lily

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Speaker 2: Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Kalkatin woman from

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Speaker 2: Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is

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Speaker 2: recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and pays

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Speaker 2: respect to all Aboriginal and Torres s right island and nations.

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Speaker 2: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

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Speaker 2: both past and present,