WEBVTT - The Catch-Up - 2 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.920 Welcome back to the Lady Vanishers the catch up series, 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:15.240 Episode two. I'm Alison Sandy. 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:20.560 And I'm Brian Seymour. By the time we reached episode four, 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.960 people were starting to take notice. We'd amassed more than 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.000 one million listeners and many were sending in information, ideas 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:29.680 and potential leads. 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.720 As you'll hear from the following snippet, it was around 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:38.120 this time that we started to encounter difficulties accessing information. 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:45.120 Just a quick update ahead of episode four, which scrutinizes 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:48.239 the reasons why and how Marion vanished as there have 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:51.720 been many developments since the start of our podcast, not 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:54.960 the least of which is a looming legal battle involving 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.800 Marion's daughter Sally and New South Wales Police over just 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:02.480 how much information Sally is entitled to under freedom of 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:06.080 information laws. The matter is now before the New South 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:09.600 Wales Civil and Administrative Tribunal, with a hearing scheduled for 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:14.400 late June. You'll see by this episode just how conflicting 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:18.760 the information into Marion's disappearance is, and it's becoming increasingly 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:22.360 clear that finding the truth will come at a cost. 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.080 Now onto the rest of episode four, it was a 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.360 pivotal one, so we're going to replay the bulk of it. 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.760 After checking with a friend in Customs and thanks to 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:43.920 a helpful bank employee, Sally determined that someone had returned 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.760 to Australia through Sydney Airport on Marion's passport on August 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:52.920 and for weeks afterwards, large sums of money were drained 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:59.320 from her bank account, mostly at Byron Bay. Sally canvassed 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:04.000 the tourist town with Marion's photo without luck. CCTV wasn't 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:07.400 as prevalent or as sophisticated in nineteen ninety seven as 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:12.080 it is today. There was no security video near the 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:16.040 Barn Bay atm or Bank branch where Marion's money was withdrawn. 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.639 But years later, Stanley would recount in a twenty ten 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:26.919 police statement her dealings with one of the bank tellers. 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:30.520 Showed him a photo of mum and I recall him 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.239 shaking the photo and saying something like that rings the bell. 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.359 He took the photo into another room to show the manager. 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.240 His body language was different everyone else's. I'd showing the 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:41.560 photo to that day, and when he came out, he 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:43.880 took a photocopy of Mum's photo and asked me what 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:46.120 he wanted me to tell her if he saw her. 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.440 This struck me as being quite strange, and I got 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.560 the impression that he knew something about mum that he 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:52.600 wasn't prepared to tell me. 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:01.359 On October twenty second, nineteen ninety seven, Sally first reported 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:06.040 her mother's disappearance to police at Byron Bay Station. The 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:09.080 officer logged the matter as an occurrence, not as a 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:14.400 missing person's matter, and if you look through the police 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.560 files on this case, there are two dates as well 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:21.040 as October. The date of the occurrence is also listed 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:25.959 as August the second, nineteen ninety seven. That was the 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:31.639 day after Marion's last phone contact. But Sally is adamant 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:34.960 she went to Byron Bay Police on October the twenty second, 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:39.880 nineteen ninety seven. It wasn't long before she got a 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:45.560 call back. The following is from Sally's twenty ten police statement. 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:48.280 In a matter of days, I got a phone call 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:50.880 from Byron Bay Police. He had told me that he 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.040 had located my mum and she didn't want anyone to 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.560 know where she is or what she was doing. I 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:57.520 think I asked him more about where she was and 0:03:57.640 --> 0:03:59.480 how he found her, but he told me he couldn't 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:02.160 give me any more information because Mum had indicated she 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:06.360 didn't want contact with anyone. I was absolutely slob aghasted 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:07.320 and quite upset. 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:13.080 But unbeknownst to Sally at the time, no authority had 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.359 actually seen Marion in the flesh or spoken with her 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:20.239 face to face to verify that she had really been found, 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.719 and there was no official police record of the phone 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:31.719 call taking place. Unhappy with the way police were handling 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:36.120 the matter, Marion's father, Jack approached the Salvation Army's Family 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:42.320 Tracing service to try to track her down. This is 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.680 an excerpt from the notes he gave them. 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:50.719 Some details of Marion's disappearance. Pay particular attention to the 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:55.000 dates departed Brisbane twenty third of June nineteen ninety seven, 0:04:55.279 --> 0:05:00.679 reincreased second of August nineteen ninety seven. The last posted 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:05.360 from Tunbridge, England was dated thirtieth of August nineteen ninety seven. 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:12.640 So Marion's last postcard was sent four weeks after she 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:20.919 apparently arrived back in Australia. This had Jack raising questions. 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.320 Did she leave the card for someone else to post? 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.160 Was it Marion who arrived back on the second of 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:31.880 August nineteen ninety seven. There's been no unpleasantness in the 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:36.039 family and the behaviour's foreign to Marian. Did Marian come 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:36.880 back from England? 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:42.560 He mentioned the money that had repeatedly been taken from 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:47.479 Marion's account and expresses disappointment with how police were handling 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:47.960 the case. 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.480 I asked what identification had been made. They said that 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:57.000 the bank's security had contacted Marian on the phone and 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.880 had been told that she didn't want her whereabouts known. 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:04.240 They said that the bank security were like police and 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:07.520 they were satisfied with their identification, and that if I 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:11.480 wanted to probe further, get a private detective and start 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:12.360 at Barron Bay. 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:19.000 At the time, the Salvation Army requested a thirty dollar 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:23.880 fee for their tracing services. On February twelve, nineteen ninety eight, 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:28.520 Betty Brown from the Salvation Army Family Tracing Service sent 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:33.600 a letter to Marion's father confirming his inquiry had been received. 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.600 Please be assured of our interests and concern. Your inquiry 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:42.600 will receive our best attention. May God bless you yours, sincerely, 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:43.560 Betty Brown. 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:50.680 Just five weeks later, the Salvation Army Tracing Service sent 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:55.080 Marion's father another letter claiming his daughter had been identified 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.480 with drawing money at a different bank, and that she 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:03.560 spoke of starting a new life. The family had assumed 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:06.440 that letter was thrown out, and for more than twenty 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:10.800 years they based their assumptions that Marian was identified on 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:18.559 the contents of that missing letter, missing until now. After 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:22.360 episode one of this podcast aired, Sally's cousin living in 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:26.280 Japan searched his family box of records and found the 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:30.600 letter from the Salvos to Marion's father, dated March eighteenth, 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:32.200 nineteen ninety eight. 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.720 Dear mister Wilson, just a short note to confirm our 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:40.000 recent phone conversation and say that I have been talking 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.880 at length to police missing persons, who in turn contacted 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:47.560 the security officer at the Colonial State Bank at Ashmore 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.920 at Southport, and after lengthy conversations, were able to advise 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.600 that it was definitely your daughter Marion who went in 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.360 and withdrew the balance of the money at Ashmore on 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:02.720 the fifteenth of October nineteen ninety and spoke of starting 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:03.520 a new life. 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.880 Yes, the letter does say nineteen ninety. It is difficult 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:12.240 to understand how that could be a typo nineteen ninety 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:16.200 instead of nineteen ninety seven, as the number seven and 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:18.760 zero are not next to each other on the keyboard 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:22.720 or number pad, but if it should read October fifteen, 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:26.520 nineteen ninety seven, this letter is saying Marian went to 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.600 another bank near her old school at Southport, where she 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:33.080 could have easily been recognized, more than two months after 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:37.040 her elaborate efforts to vanish, and one month after spending 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:40.880 weeks withdrawing money from her account at the Commonwealth Bank 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:44.600 in Byron Bay. The letter goes on. 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.680 I do hope that eventually Marian makes contact again, as 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:50.800 it must be distressing for you to be totally out 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:53.839 of contact with her. We are returning the photographs loan 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:58.079 for the inquiry. May God bless you, Yours, sincerely, Betty Brown. 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:04.160 So had Salvation Army investigators really tracked Marion down or 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.080 had they just spoken to the missing person staff who 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.840 claimed they'd spoken to a bank security officer who apparently 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:16.040 confirmed her identity without any details as to how Ultimately. 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.679 At the time, that letter was enough for Marian's parents 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.000 and her sister didri. 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.480 They were quite sure that it was Marion, and they 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.320 were sure that it was Marian because she'd actually asked 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:37.520 them some questions which somebody who wasn't Marian wouldn't just known. 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.680 They told my father that Marian was angry at Sally 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:44.680 because she had an agreement with Sally that Fey would 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.360 sell a carbon put that money in Marian's account, and 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.280 Marian was angry at Sally because she was expecting that 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:52.920 money to go in and it had gone in. So 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.719 my father decided, well, marry would He's the only one 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.560 who knew about that, so I think he was reasonably 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.880 satisfy good that they hadn't actually found Marian. And she 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.040 said quite openly that she wanted to start a new life. 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:08.520 She didn't want to have anything to do with any 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:12.400 of her present family. You know, so from police descriptions 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.280 and salveish Nami, she wasn't really missing. She just didn't 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:17.000 want to be found. She just wanted to go off 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.480 by herself and start again and start clean. And she 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:22.600 should have a right. She's fifty two or something at 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:24.080 the time, she had a right to do that if 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:29.600 she wanted to hurtful it is, yes, very and it 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:33.319 was devastating for my mum and dad, but that's what 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.040 she wanted to do. What can you do? You have 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:36.800 to accept it. 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:43.240 Before Marion left, Sally had agreed to sell her mother's 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:46.600 car if she could and deposit the money into her account. 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.520 She says she sold the car for seven five hundred dollars. 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:53.319 This is from a statement to police. 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.680 In a fairly short period of time, my grandfather told 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.520 me that the family tracing service had located Mum and 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.319 she said something like you can tell them to stop 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:04.400 looking for me and Byron Bay because I am far 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.240 far away and tell Sally I'm angry with her for 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.200 not putting money in my account for the car. I 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:12.360 had talked to my grandfather to work out what to 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:14.640 do with the money. She didn't want me to put 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.240 it into her account if someone else was using her account, 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:19.880 But on the other hand, I was feeling guilty and 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:23.080 keeping the money from her grandfather told me to keep 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:24.040 the money for myself. 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:35.680 Sally also traced Marion's Medicare and private health insurance receipts, 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.360 finding out which medical procedures she'd had in the months 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:43.560 before she went overseas. There was no major health issue 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:47.520 that she could identify, although there is one irregularity. Marion's 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.520 Medicare card was used in the small New South Wales 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.400 city of Grafton on the thirteenth of September nineteen ninety seven. 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:01.959 A police check with Medicare has confirmed this. Grafton is 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.559 about one hundred and sixty kilometers southwest of Byron Bay, 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.480 which is where Marion's bank account was being drained around 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:11.880 the same time. Salie can't recall her mother having any 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:17.960 friends or relatives in that area. Believing her mother didn't 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.360 want to be found and disappointed and hurt, Sally decided 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.480 to get on with her life. On October the twenty fourth, 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:31.640 nineteen ninety eight, she married Chris Laden at the chapel 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:35.839 of the Southport School, Marion's old workplace, but even though 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.640 her mother had helped her book the chapel before her trip, 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:45.920 she didn't show up for her daughter's big day. On 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:50.720 the first of July two thousand and three, Sally's grandfather, 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:58.200 Marian's father, Jack, died. His health was failing when his 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.000 daughter went overseas, and she was well aware of that, 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:07.400 but Marian did not attend his funeral. On July twenty 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:11.240 and two thousand and one, Sally gave birth to her 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:18.160 first child, Ella, Marian's first grandchild, but again there was 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:28.760 no word from the brand new Nana. Then, on March sixth, 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:38.320 two thousand and two, tragedy struck Sally's brother, Owen, Marion's 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:44.760 beloved son, took his own life. Owen had his demons, 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.920 He'd struggled with drugs. He was just twenty seven years old. 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.360 Sally didn't know how Owen had been coping with Marion's disappearance. 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.760 It was something they didn't talk about, but suddenly Sally 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:05.080 wanted to find her mother. In two thousand and three, 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.400 Sally got back in touch with the Salvation Army's Family 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:14.320 Tracing Service and sought help to find her mum. She's 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:15.920 kept all of the correspondents. 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.120 April fifteen, two thousand and three, Dear missus Laden, thank 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.000 you for returning your signed application form to the Family 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.640 Tracing Service. We want to ensure you that every effort 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:31.160 will be made in our search. 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.480 For three years, the Salvos carried out extensive searches in 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:51.560 Australia and overseas. They encouraged Sally to do an interview 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.480 and a story with Woman's Day magazine. 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.240 Sally's story, Where Are You Mum? 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:01.920 Seven years ago? 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:04.640 Thirty year old Sally Leyden's mother married. 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.720 February seven, two thousand and six, Dear missus Leyden. 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.800 But eventually the Salvation Army had to admit defeat and. 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:15.240 To indicate that unfortunately, so far, all of our searches 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:16.320 have proved. 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.320 Negative, Marion could not be found. 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:27.800 In two thousand and seven, around the tenth anniversary of 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:33.160 Marion's disappearance, Sally contacted the Australian Federal Police Missing Persons Unit. 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.240 She spoke with the then team leader, Rebecca Cotts. 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:40.760 I was working back late one night actually, and I 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.680 took a phone call and on our one eight hundred line, 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.600 the free call line into the Missing Person Center, and 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:50.840 it was Sally. And Sally introduced herself and wanted to 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:54.120 tell me a story about her mother and who was 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:58.720 missing to her and her life. So we spoke for 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:03.080 quite a few hours that night, and I think, if 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.120 my recollection's correct, I probably spoke to heruntil about eight thirty 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:10.640 that night, where she had explained the entirety of her 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.920 understanding of the story of her mother's her mother's missingness, 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.400 and what she had done to date, and you know, 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:22.320 every sort of bitten piece of her recollection. So we 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.960 struck up an immediate rapport in that few hours She 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:31.400 was very poignant, had a lot of detail around what 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:34.720 had happened with the case, but was adamant that she 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:38.320 didn't think enough was being done around where her mother was. 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:40.720 Obviously, there's so many missing cases every year and you 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.480 can't look in them into the level that you did 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:46.600 with this one. What made this one different? 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:51.120 I guess in my position at the time, cases that 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.440 I did have the privilege of dealing with, I did 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.480 tend to get very involved with because I felt that 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:00.640 the better I knew a case, the better I could 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:02.600 represent a family in the media, and the more I 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.879 could understand what had happened. Sally was a bit different, 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:10.360 where everything about her and her case, as far as 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:15.720 her mother's concern, was very detailed, and she kept such 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:19.320 great records on things. I guess she was very presentable 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:24.720 the case. It seemed so obvious to me, and the 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.280 fact that she was able to articulate. 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:29.520 It very clearly made it easier for me to. 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.439 Not just want to get involved, but easier for me 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.359 to see that there could be an outcome to the case. 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:36.840 I guess. 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.000 So when you say it was quite obvious, can you 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.400 explain what your take on the case was. 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:43.800 From the detail that Sally was able to present. 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.480 It seemed fairly obvious to me that this was an 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:52.360 adult going missing of their own volition, which happens very regularly, 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.879 where somebody chooses to walk out on their life because 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.000 there's issues in their life they don't want to face, 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.480 so they can't face and things like that. So it's 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:05.199 not illegal, obviously in Australia go missing as an adult 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.960 or to walk out on your life. So I felt 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:10.760 very early on in the piece that this may have 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:11.400 been the case. 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.720 With her mother, Rebecca said that Marian's case will be 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.639 profiled for Missing Persons Week in two thousand and seven. 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.159 Sally agreed to front the media campaign, but at the 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.639 very last minute she was dropped from the project. 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:25.439 After speaking with her. 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:29.000 Initially, I had gone to my coordinator at the time 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:32.640 and sort approval to go up to Brisbane and meet 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.240 with Sally because I felt that there was a really 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:37.879 good story here and possibly something that could heighten the 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:41.000 profile of missing persons and the issues around people wanting 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:43.080 to walk away from their life. So I went up 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.280 and I met extensively with Sally face to face, and 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.960 I definitely agreed with her that there was a situation 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.399 here that I felt we could really support, get behind 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:57.200 and raise the awareness of that. After coming back to Canberra, 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:00.439 I then presented to the States and Territories case that 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:04.240 I wanted to promote for Missing Persons Week, that being 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:08.679 Marion Barter, and was advised by New South Wales Police 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:11.960 that we couldn't follow through with that for investative reasons. 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.960 Those reasons were never followed through or conveyed through to us. 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.080 What it seemed to come down to was that ten 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:22.080 years earlier, someone claiming to be from the New South 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:26.679 Wales Police told Sally that Marian had been located. Sally 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:30.840 received the following email from the AFP, the Australian Federal Police. 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:33.560 Dear Sally, I would like to confirm the details of 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.520 the discussion you and I had yesterday regarding the decision 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:38.760 to withdraw the use of your mother's story for this 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:42.280 year's launch. We cannot utilize the story for National Missing 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:45.040 Persons Week two thousand and seven due to the current 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:48.480 sensitivity of the case. I explained yesterday that we need 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:51.359 to respect the privacy of both yourself and your mother, 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:53.920 given that it appears that your mum has been located 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:56.760 by New South Wales Police, and that at those times 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.960 your mum had decided not to resume contact with your family. 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.720 I also wanted to acknowledge the hard work and amazing 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.560 dedication you've made in trying to locate your mother over 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.840 the last ten years. I hope that the current investigation 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.240 gives you the results you've been waiting for so long 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.120 to achieve. I'm also hoping in the future that other 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:18.320 media opportunities may arise that would be more suitable to 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:20.639 your story. Please let me know if you think this 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.440 is an option for you. If you require any further 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.440 information of the details surrounding your mother's case, you can 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:29.560 contact the new South Wales Police officer currently responsible for 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.159 the investigation. As always, both myself and the staff of 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:36.159 the unit are available to you for whatever inquiries or 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.639 advice you may need. Kind regards. 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:42.520 Sally was extremely disappointed and sent an email back to 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.760 the AFP on July twenty third, two thousand and seven. 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:50.320 Hello, I am very sad to read your email. My family, myself, 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:53.240 and my mum's many friends still this opportunity of hope, 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:55.919 a great chance to locate my mum and hope to 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:59.399 have her come home safely. I was very surprised by 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.240 a phone call from one senior comfortable from Missing Persons, 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:04.639 New South Wales on the eleventh of the seventh to 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:06.720 hear that it is their opinion that my mother is 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:10.359 not a missing person just because she apparently said she 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:13.960 didn't want to be found ten years ago. I say apparently, 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:16.360 as the questions I was asked by the Senior Constable 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:18.760 have led me to believe that New Southwest Police have 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.520 no records of who it was who took my report 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:24.159 at Byron Day ten years ago or who called me 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:26.000 to advise me that my mom did not wish to 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:28.760 be found. Due to this, I will be a requesting 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.960 full documentation from New Southwals Police Missing Persons in it 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:34.680 to show me evidence that my report was handled correctly 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:38.080 ten years ago. This doubt arose when I was asked 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:40.600 several times by the Senior Constable did I remember the 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:43.200 person who took my report or who it was who 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:45.800 called me to say that they had found her, of 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:49.400 which I cannot recall after ten years. The Senior Constable 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:52.000 then said quote, I need to find out who took 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:54.479 the report and who told you they had found her, 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:55.920 being strange to me. 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:57.959 As I would have thought this would all be on record. 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:00.399 I also found it strange to be asked again of 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.320 my mother's details, of which I gave in my report 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:04.159 ten years ago. 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:08.080 Incidentally, now, six months of hard planning trimarly phone calls, 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:10.640 emails and planning around having a baby to come down 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:12.560 to camp Or Sydney and Melbourne for the launch of 0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:15.359 Missing Persons Week, I now have been pulled from the 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:18.600 launch to the matters within the New Southwest Police. I'll 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:21.000 be asking the Senior Constable why this is the case. 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:24.720 I do thank you very much for your help, Sincerely, 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:25.639 Sally Laden. 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:29.399 Sally's email to the AFP was then forwarded to the 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:30.560 New South Wales Police. 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:33.679 Dear, I've been asked to make sure that you have 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:36.560 all of the information that attains to Sally Layden's case 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:40.560 file information. I received this email on Monday, kind regards. 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:44.360 What followed was an email trail between the two agencies. 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:48.639 We've acquired the correspondence through a Freedom of information application. 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:52.520 Many names and paragraphs and the documents have been redacted, 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:55.320 so it can be a little difficult to follow. This 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:58.959 is what we've managed to glean. On July twenty seventh, 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:01.880 two thousand and seven, an inspector in the New South 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:04.880 Wales Missing Persons Unit responded to the AFP. 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:06.240 Thanks. 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:09.399 It appears as though Sally is seeking a scapegoat for 0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:12.400 this issue. I'm led to believe that only as recently 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:14.960 as in the past months, her mother was spoken with 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:18.399 and refused to make contact with her daughter. What was 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:21.280 done is totally correct. I await her submission. 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:25.439 Then, on Friday, August tenth, two thousand and seven, the 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:28.800 following email was sent from the AFP. It's not known 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:31.640 to whom, as the names and email addresses have been 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:34.919 blacked out. It may, however, be an internal email for 0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:36.360 someone else within the AFP. 0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:40.240 Following on from receiving this email, I've phoned to try 0:23:40.240 --> 0:23:42.760 and clarify some of the information he had, as I 0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:46.119 knew it was incorrect. Some of his comments were as follows, 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:50.360 as I have been informed by her mother was located 0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:53.800 recently again and doesn't want anything to do with her family. 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:56.520 The next two points have been blacked out entirely. 0:23:56.920 --> 0:24:01.679 Then there's this, after several other completely inappropriate comments. I 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:05.840 let know that Sally's mother had not been located recently 0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:08.679 and that maybe the information he had received around this 0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:10.320 was incorrect again. 0:24:10.760 --> 0:24:14.160 A large section comprising several lines has been edited out 0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:15.560 before The following. 0:24:16.040 --> 0:24:19.439 Has made many inappropriate comments to Sally, such as the 0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:21.959 New South Wales Police are trying to fix what the 0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:27.159 AFP can't do. Another reducted section. Then hope this helps you. 0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:28.720 Good luck with your confrontation. 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:33.959