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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Rise and Conquer Podcasts. This podcast is

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Speaker 1: for women who want to take ownership of their lives,

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Speaker 1: live unapologetically, and are ready to turn their biggest dreams

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Speaker 1: into their reality. If you're ready to be armed with

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Speaker 1: the tools that will inspire to take bold action, feel

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Speaker 1: confident within yourself, and conquer your goals, then you've come

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Speaker 1: to the right place. I'm your host, Georgie Stevenson. I'm

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Speaker 1: a lawyer turned entrepreneur, co founder of Naked Harvest Supplements,

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Speaker 1: and social media personality with a community of over three

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand. I grew up believing I had to pursue

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Speaker 1: the safe option and fit into a mold others had

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Speaker 1: created for me. But then I entered my corporate law

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Speaker 1: job and I realized that settling for a reality that

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Speaker 1: did I didn't set my soul on fire, was something I

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Speaker 1: was not prepared to do. I wanted more, and I

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Speaker 1: have a feeling you do too. Join me and special

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Speaker 1: guests weekly as we get down to the nitty gritty

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Speaker 1: on all things health, mastering your mindset, creating lasting habits,

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Speaker 1: thriving in your career and relationships, plus so much more,

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Speaker 1: and together we'll gain the knowledge and perspective to pursue

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Speaker 1: our wildest dreams and kick fear to the curb. Well,

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Speaker 1: what are you waiting for? Let's rise and conquer. Hey guys,

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Speaker 1: and welcome back to another episode of the Rise and

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Speaker 1: Conquer Podcast. Today on the show, I'm sharing a very

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Speaker 1: important conversation. I'm joined by Aisha Ash. Aisha is a

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Speaker 1: proud Murray Grenadian woman. Born in Grenadia and raised in Brisbane.

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Speaker 1: Aisha is a trailblazer in her field of creative arts.

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Speaker 1: She started her own highly acclaimed creative arts company called Blackbirds.

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Speaker 1: Aisha started Blackbirds when she noticed a lack of representation

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Speaker 1: of women in color in the creative industry, and in

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Speaker 1: our chat we get down to why this representation is

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Speaker 1: so important and why it's important for women of color

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Speaker 1: to take control of their narrative. Towards the end two

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Speaker 1: we also discuss cultural appropriation and how we can better

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Speaker 1: check ourselves. I truly believe that having open discussions about

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Speaker 1: these issues and how we can actively help to make

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Speaker 1: sure everyone around us feels welcomed, love and seen. If

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Speaker 1: you want to learn more about Black Lives Matter movement

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Speaker 1: and how you can help, I've put a couple of

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Speaker 1: links in the show notes Aisha is truly in inspiring

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Speaker 1: and an example of being able to build a company

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Speaker 1: from a pain point to lead the way. I am

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Speaker 1: so grateful for her energy in opening up about some

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Speaker 1: serious issues. Let's get into the show. Hey, Ayisha, welcome

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Speaker 1: to the show.

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Speaker 2: Hi so nice to be here.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking the time to chat

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Speaker 1: with the RNC fan today. Before we get into the

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Speaker 1: good cues, something I ask all my guests is what

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Speaker 1: season are you currently in? So this just means what

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Speaker 1: are you prioritizing at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I actually feel really motivated at the moment, So

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Speaker 2: I guess I'm prioritizing creating new work and being really

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Speaker 2: proactive with what I'm putting out into the world and

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Speaker 2: what I'm pursuing. I think for a while I was

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Speaker 2: kind of okay during COVID, but I don't know, it

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Speaker 2: was kind of like there was kind of this blanket

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Speaker 2: of mundanity on me. So I was just really kind

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Speaker 2: of not bored. I was still doing things. But I

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Speaker 2: feel like now that things are lifting, I've got so

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Speaker 2: much more impetus to kind of get out into the

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Speaker 2: world and create things again.

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Speaker 1: I love that, and I definitely do not think you're

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Speaker 1: the only one. I definitely felt almost like, I think

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Speaker 1: because of not knowing when it was going to lift,

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Speaker 1: and I guess the uncertainty, I felt like a bit

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Speaker 1: of para are like I'm trying to think of the

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Speaker 1: word proalysis. Yes, yeah, wait, I kind of like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to start things. I didn't know what

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Speaker 1: to do. And then now I can kind of see,

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Speaker 1: you know, the light at the end of the tunnel.

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Speaker 1: I feel almost a bit more motivated to you know,

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Speaker 1: do the next things and start the next projects.

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Speaker 2: So definitely, yeah. And it's a really nice feeling too,

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Speaker 2: isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's like it's kind of like a nice like

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Speaker 1: light feeling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. It is.

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Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much. The next question, I've already

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Speaker 1: done a bit of an intro for you at the start,

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Speaker 1: but could you give the listeners a bit of a

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Speaker 1: snapshot of who you are and also what a day

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Speaker 1: looks like in your life?

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Speaker 2: Okay? Cool. So I trained first as an actor. So

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Speaker 2: I went to acting school in Perth at a place

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Speaker 2: called Whopper, and I did an acting course there. It

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Speaker 2: was like a three year full time thing, and so

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Speaker 2: I've been working professionally as an actor, I guess for

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Speaker 2: about seven years now. Before that, I also went to

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Speaker 2: I guess a kind of creative arts school in Brisbane

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Speaker 2: called Queensland Academy for Creative Industries. So I've been doing

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Speaker 2: creative stuff for a while. And then I guess after

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Speaker 2: acting school as well, I started to branch out into

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Speaker 2: doing more things like writing, directing, producing, throwing events, and

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Speaker 2: I freelance a lot. I also have an agent, so

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Speaker 2: I get gigs through my agent, who were great, But

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Speaker 2: I also freelance a lot and find and make a

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Speaker 2: lot of my own work. And I also run Blackbirds,

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Speaker 2: which I think we'll talk about later, but I run

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Speaker 2: a company creative arts code called Blackbirds, which focuses on

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Speaker 2: making work fall buy and about women of color in

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Speaker 2: Australia amazing.

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Speaker 1: And just quickly, what is a date and the life

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Speaker 1: look like for you?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Yes, a day in the life. Well, I'm very

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Speaker 2: much an early riser. I like to get up early

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Speaker 2: and kind of do all my big tasks first thing

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Speaker 2: in the morning and exercise and everything, because by eight

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Speaker 2: pm I am really tired and we need to go

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Speaker 2: to bed. So that's pretty like I have to be

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Speaker 2: very self directed in terms of the work that I've

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Speaker 2: been doing, especially during this whole COVID season, because a

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Speaker 2: lot of the work that was planned was postponed or canceled,

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Speaker 2: and so therefore there was no rehearsal period or anything.

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Speaker 2: We were supposed to have weeks and weeks of rehearsals

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Speaker 2: for shows, but that was all postponed. So I've had

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Speaker 2: to kind of pivot and think about the work that

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Speaker 2: I'm creating and how I can use my day still

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Speaker 2: to the full without pushing myself too much and without

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Speaker 2: expecting too much of myself, which I'm sure you can

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Speaker 2: agree is kind of hard, Like you feel like you

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Speaker 2: should be doing stuff, doing stuffing stuff all the time,

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Speaker 2: but it is really important to kind of give yourself

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Speaker 2: a break. And I think that's what I've been trying

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Speaker 2: to do with COVID, you know, trying to do less

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Speaker 2: but do it better.

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Speaker 1: Yes, one hundred percent, I love that, And yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: so interesting. I didn't kind of that didn't even register

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Speaker 1: to me about you know, performances and not having rehearsals

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Speaker 1: and whatnot, So your life would look very different during

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a lot of stuff planned for interstate

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Speaker 2: and like we were doing a whole season of a

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Speaker 2: show in Melbourne, but that was all canned. But I

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Speaker 2: think the arts industry is you know, it's been really

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Speaker 2: hit hard by COVID and it's really difficult because artists

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Speaker 2: are some of the first people to always step up

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Speaker 2: and put on benefits for other things for free, you know,

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Speaker 2: give their time for free, which I think is such

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Speaker 2: a great quality. But now we're kind of being left

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Speaker 2: in the dark by the government in terms of stimulus

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Speaker 2: packages and stuff. So hopefully within the next few weeks

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Speaker 2: we see a bit of change there.

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Speaker 1: Yes, one hundred percent. And also so important to make sure,

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Speaker 1: you know, we as listeners and as people who enjoy

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Speaker 1: the creative industry to then go and you know, support

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Speaker 1: you guys when you do have performances and that sort

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Speaker 1: of stuff on. Yes, absolutely, Okay, So you chatted out

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Speaker 1: briefly about Blackbirds, and I want to get into that

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Speaker 1: because I really want to chat the importance of representation

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Speaker 1: in the film, TV media industry. So you're the artistic

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Speaker 1: director of your own create arts company called Blackbirds, and

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Speaker 1: you've also worked professionally as an actor. As you said, firstly,

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Speaker 1: before we get into what Blackbirds is and how it

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Speaker 1: came about, can you let us know. I guess how

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Speaker 1: you came to have an interest in the creative industry.

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Speaker 2: I think as if kid because I'm an only child

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Speaker 2: of a single parent, So as a kid, I was

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Speaker 2: bored a lot. I would have to kind of make

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Speaker 2: my own fun and my mum was always super busy

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Speaker 2: working and studying, and I would kind of have to

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Speaker 2: find ways to entertain myself. And then when it came

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Speaker 2: to after school activities like sport, I was enrolled in

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Speaker 2: so many different ones, and I just didn't like any

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Speaker 2: of the sports. I just was not into sporty, Like

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Speaker 2: I'm just not a sporty person. Unfortunately, I can watch

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Speaker 2: your game, but when it comes to playing it, I'm

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Speaker 2: just I'm good on the sidelines, like encouraging people, but

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Speaker 2: on the field shocking. So I found I found my love.

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Speaker 2: I guess when I was probably about ten or nine,

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Speaker 2: I started doing dancing and I loved that and became

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Speaker 2: such a huge part of my life. I think by

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Speaker 2: the time I finished, I was doing about thirty to

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Speaker 2: forty hours of class a week, so it was a

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Speaker 2: big part of my life. And I'm so grateful for

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Speaker 2: it because I think, just the same as any of

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Speaker 2: team sport does, you know, dancing offers such a great

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Speaker 2: learning facility in the terms of discipline and working as

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Speaker 2: a team and getting to know your body and getting

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Speaker 2: to know music and all that kind of thing. So

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Speaker 2: I started through dancing and then I went to a

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Speaker 2: creative arts high school in Brisbane and I did theater

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Speaker 2: and music there as my two major creative subjects. And

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Speaker 2: after that I decided, you know, I really loved acting.

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Speaker 2: I think I was so shy as a kid that

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Speaker 2: acting was something that I felt I could be someone else.

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Speaker 2: So it was really nice for me to kind of

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Speaker 2: get rid of that fear. And so when I went

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Speaker 2: to acting school, it was a really big kind of

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Speaker 2: It was a big change because I moved over to Perth.

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Speaker 2: It was the first time that I lived out of home,

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Speaker 2: but it was such a supportive community, and I think

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Speaker 2: acting has so many other benefits in terms of building

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Speaker 2: confidence and getting to know yourself and also providing you

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Speaker 2: with a lot of opportunities to kind of think about

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Speaker 2: how other people work, you know, when you're doing character

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Speaker 2: work and things like that. So yeah, I guess It's

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Speaker 2: kind of just been like a flow on effect for me.

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Speaker 2: And I could have gone to union, and I was

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Speaker 2: really considering doing law. I deferred it, but I just

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Speaker 2: knew that it wouldn't make me happy, and it might

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Speaker 2: have been an easier path, you know, and I've heard

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Speaker 2: you talk about this before. It would have been an

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Speaker 2: easier path to go down in terms of stability, but

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Speaker 2: it just wouldn't have fulfilled me. And at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, you know, I know, I'm very lucky

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Speaker 2: to have that option to do something that I can

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Speaker 2: feel fulfilled from. Not everyone has that option, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: I feel really lucky to be able to pursue it.

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Speaker 2: It is tough, as any creative industry is, but it's

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Speaker 2: definitely worth it.

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Speaker 1: I love what you said about, you know, it being

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Speaker 1: a form of learning discipline and learning to talk with

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Speaker 1: a team and that sort of thing, which is kind

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Speaker 1: of what people think, you know, you do with sport

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Speaker 1: during school. And I actually, I don't think my listeners

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Speaker 1: know this, but I actually did acting from a young

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Speaker 1: age to up I think maybe like fourteen. It was

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Speaker 1: like nothing nothing you street, was like more of enough

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Speaker 1: school thing. But I felt like that because I'm so

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Speaker 1: uncoordinated with sports. For me, it's just like, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was really good to have this sort of outing where

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Speaker 1: you did learn those skills, but in a different creative way.

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Speaker 1: And that's so interesting what you said about law and yeah,

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Speaker 1: much the same. I went through the exact same sort

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Speaker 1: of transition when I was like, Yeah, what am I doing?

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Speaker 1: I don't actually enjoy this and I can kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, try this other thing that I enjoy. So

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Speaker 1: I love that you're following your passions. And I love

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Speaker 1: so much that you started this creative company called Blackbirds.

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Speaker 1: So I know you said this came as a response

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Speaker 1: to the lack of representation of women of color in

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Speaker 1: earlier in the arts industry. Can you expand more on

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Speaker 1: this and explain what Blackbirds is about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so Blackbirds was co founded between myself and Tokala

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Speaker 2: and Fijian woman called Emilie Unavoul who's also an actor, writer, producer,

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Speaker 2: director wears many hats, and we kind of started talking

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Speaker 2: to each other. I gets in twenty fifteen because we

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Speaker 2: both finished drama school. I went to Whopper, she went

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Speaker 2: to Nider and we were graduating into the industry and

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Speaker 2: we were both really disappointed and not excited at all

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Speaker 2: about the kind of opportunities that would be out there

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Speaker 2: for us once we graduated, or you know, more more

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Speaker 2: about I guess the lack of opportunities that would be

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Speaker 2: out there. So from the get go, we just thought, well,

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Speaker 2: why don't we just create our own opportunities. And another

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Speaker 2: thing I guess in terms of being at an acting

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Speaker 2: school and meeting all these people, is that you see

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Speaker 2: so many other women of color who have also trained

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Speaker 2: professionally and who are amazing, but don't get any opportunity

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Speaker 2: to share that because the commercial film and TV theater

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Speaker 2: industries are very small and can be quite limited in

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Speaker 2: how they choose to represent people. And also I think

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Speaker 2: sometimes they don't give the audience enough credit and they

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Speaker 2: don't trust the audience in terms of what the audience

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Speaker 2: wants to see and how much the audience wants diversity

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Speaker 2: as well. So we just went, yeah, we're going to

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Speaker 2: create our own company, and actually we wanted to start

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Speaker 2: it as a podcast, and the podcast has only come

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Speaker 2: about this year, so very slow on the podcast uptake.

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Speaker 2: We've kind of got sidetracked with a lot of different practices.

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Speaker 2: But we do theater film, short film we've done visual artworks.

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Speaker 2: We've also done live I guess more live art performances,

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Speaker 2: and we've been able to to take our work to

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Speaker 2: al Toyoto and New Zealand and Melbourne and Sydney, Brisbane

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Speaker 2: and one of our films was even shown in by Batos,

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Speaker 2: which was really cool. So yeah, we really wanted to

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Speaker 2: make sure that we created something that women of color

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Speaker 2: from the diaspora from all over the world who called

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Speaker 2: Australia home could share their stories and their experiences and

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Speaker 2: feel seen as well as have an opportunity to share

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Speaker 2: the talents and the skills that they've been working so

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Speaker 2: hard on for so long, and often because there is

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Speaker 2: a lack of opportunity, some of these women just decide

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Speaker 2: to step back from the industry altogether, which I can understand,

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Speaker 2: but is also really it's just sad, I guess, because

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Speaker 2: they've invested so much of their time in their life

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Speaker 2: and to see something that was a passion for so

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Speaker 2: many people just die because there's no opportunity and that

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Speaker 2: they can't feel seen is pretty heartbreaking.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and that's just amazing that you guys would see

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Speaker 1: that see you know, the lack of representation and create

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Speaker 1: your own space like it's it's actually amazing. And I

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Speaker 1: guess like I wanted to ask, because, like you said,

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Speaker 1: like things are progressing, things are getting better. Do you

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Speaker 1: feel like they have progressed quite a lot or do

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Speaker 1: you feel like there's still a long way to go.

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Speaker 2: I think there's definitely still a long way to go.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's no doubt that things have progressed. But

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Speaker 2: we're talking about you know, film and TV industries, in

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Speaker 2: the theater industries have been around for so long and

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Speaker 2: we're only just getting to this point now. I think

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Speaker 2: we really can pick up the pace, and I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, theater companies and production companies and casting agents

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Speaker 2: need to, you know, really set some goals and markets

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Speaker 2: for themselves and hold themselves accountable because one of the

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Speaker 2: best things about Australia is how diverse our population is.

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Speaker 2: People come from everywhere, and it's such a shame to

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Speaker 2: kind of waste those stories and just kind of pigeonhole

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Speaker 2: what Australian culture is or what Australian culture could be

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Speaker 2: to one type of person.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I love what you've said about their stories, and

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Speaker 1: I know, like a part of the reason Blackbirds was

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Speaker 1: formed was that, so women of color could also become

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Speaker 1: control of their own narratives and tell their own stories.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain a bit to the Rise and Conquer Audience,

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Speaker 1: just why this is so important.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I think it's really really important for people

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Speaker 2: from marginalized groups, whether that be because your marginalized because

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Speaker 2: of your race, your ethnicity, your gender, identity, your ability levels,

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Speaker 2: that you have control over your own story, because as

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Speaker 2: someone who is already oppressed by the majority of society,

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Speaker 2: to have a story told and you have control of

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Speaker 2: that gives you so much opportunity to speak a truth

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Speaker 2: to people that they would not necessarily hear, and also

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Speaker 2: provides a real representation and not a stereotypical representation, because

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Speaker 2: we know that stereotypes are so problematic, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I can understand why they come in that they are

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Speaker 2: a quick they're a quick fix, and it's kind of

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Speaker 2: a bit of a lazy job to just put a

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Speaker 2: stereotype in and not actually delve deep into the depth

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Speaker 2: of a person. But we've seen before. There's this study

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Speaker 2: that was done and I really recommend everyone go on

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Speaker 2: YouTube and you can look at it. If you just

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Speaker 2: type in dole test on YouTube. You can watch it.

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Speaker 2: But a study was done in America in the nineteen

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Speaker 2: forties and they were trying to figure out the impacts

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Speaker 2: of segregation on black and white students. So if anyone

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Speaker 2: doesn't know, segregation was where they separated people of black

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Speaker 2: and white races and they weren't allowed to go to

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Speaker 2: school together or drink from the same water fountains or anything.

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Speaker 2: It was mad And the black children they were given

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Speaker 2: a black doll and a white doll, and they always

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Speaker 2: had bias. They wanted to have the white doll, they

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Speaker 2: wanted to have the white skin because they were told

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Speaker 2: that black was bad. Black was bad. And then in

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Speaker 2: twenty ten they did a similar study kind of seeing

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Speaker 2: if anything had changed, and unfortunately it hadn't. And it

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Speaker 2: was so heartbreaking to watch these kids pointing at the

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Speaker 2: black doll, Black kids pointing at the black doll and saying,

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Speaker 2: this doll is bad, this dole is ugly, this doll

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Speaker 2: is dumb, this dole, this dole has nothing to offer

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Speaker 2: because of the stereotypes and the lack of representation of

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Speaker 2: black people on TV and in film. So to see that,

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Speaker 2: you know, taken all the way from the forties to

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Speaker 2: twenty ten. This study was done in young children, I

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Speaker 2: think between the ages of five and ten, is like,

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Speaker 2: it just really highlights the importance of having people in

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Speaker 2: control of their own stories so that you can have

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Speaker 2: diverse and strong and beautiful representations of black people and

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Speaker 2: you know, people who are from other minorities as well.

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Speaker 2: I think it's just so important and it benefits everyone.

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Speaker 2: You know, no one wants to be going around with

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Speaker 2: a very small minded view of the world, so it's

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Speaker 2: I think it's everyone's benefit to have more interesting stories

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Speaker 2: on screen.

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Speaker 1: I could not agree more. And I love that you

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Speaker 1: touched on that, and I love that you've followed your

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Speaker 1: passion and you've built this amazing company where you're allowing

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Speaker 1: women of color to take control of telling their stories.

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Speaker 1: And I wanted to ask you if you have any

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Speaker 1: empowering tips or words of advice for others who are

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Speaker 1: feeling a lack of representation to step up and take lead,

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Speaker 1: whether that's you know, starting their own company, business venture,

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Speaker 1: or like you said, following their passions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know it's hard, but I honestly

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Speaker 2: think you've just got to listen to yourself, sit down

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Speaker 2: with yourself, do whatever you have to do, maybe write

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Speaker 2: a pros and com list or meditate or think about

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Speaker 2: you know, what gap are you trying to fill? How

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Speaker 2: are you trying to help other people? And I think

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Speaker 2: you've just got to go through it. And it's hard.

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Speaker 2: I mean nothing I think in this world really is easy.

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Speaker 2: But it's also an opportunity to learn and to challenge

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Speaker 2: yourself and growth can often be uncomfortable, but you know

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Speaker 2: you have to go through that to get to where

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Speaker 2: you need to be or where you want to be.

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Speaker 2: So I really think that you've just got to take

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Speaker 2: the plunge. It's not always going to be easy, but

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Speaker 2: just keep going, honestly, just don't give up. My mom

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Speaker 2: has this magnet on the fridge. She's had it since

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Speaker 2: I was a little kid, and it says, if you're

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Speaker 2: going through hell, keep going. And I think about it

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Speaker 2: all the times. It's like, sometimes you've just got to

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Speaker 2: keep going because if you stop, like, what's all that

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Speaker 2: hard work for? And know that there's something there at

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Speaker 2: the end. You don't know what it is, maybe, but

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Speaker 2: just keep going one foot in front of the other

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Speaker 2: day after today, and don't compare yourself to anyone else,

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Speaker 2: because you know, I think This is saying, you know,

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Speaker 2: comparison is the thief of joy, and everyone is really

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Speaker 2: running their own race, and everyone has a different life story,

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Speaker 2: and you just can't compare yourself to someone else, because

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Speaker 2: then you're just wasting your time and energy in stet

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Speaker 2: into you know, something that's not going to get you anywhere,

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Speaker 2: instead of putting that into progressing your own goals or

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Speaker 2: your own career.

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Speaker 1: I love that one hundred percent. Stay in your own lane,

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00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:37,359
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Speaker 1: back into the show. I want to switch gears a

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Speaker 1: tiny bit. And I've read in an interview that you

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Speaker 1: were featured in in Folk Magazine, and you said, and

437
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: this is a direct quote. I'm doing little quotes from

438
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: my fingers right now, guys. So you said, our capabilities

439
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: as women of color are often ignored or diminished because

440
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: we've been denied access to certain space and or told

441
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: that we're not good enough to thrive in the same

442
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: steares as white people. Can you kind of talk about

443
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: this quote a bit more and explain the idea of tokenism?

444
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 2: Sure, I think you know, it's really important to think

445
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 2: about the ways in which institutions, and you know, academic

446
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 2: institutions and corporate places are built in a way to

447
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 2: support only one identity and keep others locked out. And

448
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 2: we're told, you know, as people of color and as

449
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: a black woman, you know, I was told very early

450
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: on in my life that I would have to work

451
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 2: twice as hard as a white person to get half

452
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: as far. And what's meant by that is that even

453
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: though some people don't know that, the implicit biases that

454
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 2: they act on or the way that they have internalized

455
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 2: racism because they've grown up in a society that you know,

456
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 2: the indigenous people still don't have recognition in the constitution.

457
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 2: That's also going to affect then the way that people

458
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 2: of color and people from minorities have access into these spaces. So,

459
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 2: for example, even with something like a resume, there was

460
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 2: a study done a couple of years ago in America

461
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 2: talking about how if you have an ethnic sounding name,

462
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 2: you're like fifty percent and this is probably not the

463
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: exact number, but you're less likely to even have your

464
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 2: resume read because your name sounds ethnic and not white.

465
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 2: So from the get go, someone with a name like mine,

466
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 2: like Aisha, or someone with another ethnic sounding name, isn't

467
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 2: even going to have a tiny foot in the door

468
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 2: just because of their name. They won't even look at

469
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 2: your qualifications. Also, you know, similar things happen though, even

470
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 2: with age. You know, with agism, we know that agism

471
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 2: is a real thing, and that women over a certain

472
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 2: age they're probably not going to get a job because

473
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 2: people will think they're too old to employ. Saying with

474
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 2: your gender, you know, sometimes if you have a male

475
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 2: sounding name, if you're a female identifier and your name

476
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 2: is something like I don't know, Blake, you're more likely

477
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 2: to get a job interview because they will think you're

478
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 2: a man. So it covers a lot of different things.

479
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,719
Speaker 2: And so there's a lot of different doors that are

480
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 2: closed to people just because of you know, their race,

481
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 2: their age, their gender. So I think it's really important

482
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,479
Speaker 2: for especially people who run companies or people who have sway,

483
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 2: who work in HR and all these types of things,

484
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: to think about the way that you make room for difference,

485
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 2: the way that you make room for people of minorities,

486
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: and really look at your own practices and just hold

487
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 2: yourself accountable. Like I said before, you know, look at

488
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 2: the structures and how they benefit you, and how something

489
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 2: that is benefiting you is directly keeping someone else out.

490
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: And do you have any because on this podcast, I'm

491
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 1: really big on giving the audience sort of like actionable takeaways.

492
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: And I love what you said and I cannot agree more.

493
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: And I think there is this huge sort of awakening

494
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 1: happening right now which is amazing, and I want to

495
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: keep pushing forward with this and I wanted to ask you,

496
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,959
Speaker 1: and sorry, I wanted to ask you if you have

497
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: any sort of actionable tips. Obviously, I don't want to

498
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: sit here and ask you to explain everything, because we

499
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: do have to go out and we have to do

500
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: our own education, and we have to take responsibility one

501
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: hundred percent. But I guess, you know, with being more

502
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: aware with the content we consume and more mindful, do

503
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: you have any actionable tips for the audience they can

504
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: sort of do right now?

505
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm not even sure if I answered the

506
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: second half of your last question about tokenism, but I'll

507
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 2: just pop that one into here quickly because I think

508
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 2: it goes well with what I can offer the listeners.

509
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: But tokenism is when when someone of a minority group

510
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 2: is just put there as I guess, like a little

511
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 2: doll of look at what we're doing. We're really working hard,

512
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 2: But actually they're just there because they're offering this company

513
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 2: some kind of value. It's benefiting them, and it's not

514
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 2: benefiting the culture or the minority group that they're showing off. So,

515
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 2: for example, something that I've seen some people being called

516
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 2: out about on Instagram over these past few weeks is

517
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,959
Speaker 2: some fashion labels all of a sudden, they're posting photos

518
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 2: of black people or people of color on their instagrams,

519
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 2: but you scroll down their feet, and before this Black

520
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 2: Lives Matter was very much front and center of the media,

521
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 2: there was absolutely none. So it's very see through transparent

522
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,479
Speaker 2: that people are trying to jump on the bandwagon instead

523
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 2: of saying, you know, something better to do would be say, hey,

524
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 2: we're really aware that we have not used any black

525
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,719
Speaker 2: models or any models of color in our in our

526
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: work before, and we're actively changing that and this is

527
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: this is what we're doing and these are the steps

528
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: we're taking. So leading on from that as well, I

529
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 2: think something great for you know, the listeners to think

530
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: about is maybe if they have a brand that they

531
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: love and they don't see any diversity there, just send

532
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 2: them a message. You know, it doesn't need to be

533
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 2: it's not, you know, attacking someone, but just say hey,

534
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: I've noticed that you don't have a very diverse range

535
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: of models on your website or and that can be

536
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: in terms of size as well as skin tone and

537
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: even ability, like there should be models of disability on

538
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 2: websites and things as well, So you can send a

539
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: message to them and say hey, I've noticed this. It

540
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: would be really great because the brands should want to

541
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: reflect what the purchaser wants, right. So if you're actively

542
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: reaching out to them and saying this is you know,

543
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 2: something that I want to see and more people and

544
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: more people are doing that than they're more likely to change.

545
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: Another really easy thing to do, and I know people

546
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 2: feel uncomfortable about it, but just call out racism when

547
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 2: you see it. You know, it doesn't need to be

548
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 2: a huge fight, but just say, hey, that's not appropriate,

549
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: and or hey, that's actually really offensive. Sometimes people don't

550
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 2: realize they're being offensive, and all it takes is for

551
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: you to say, hey, this is offensive because or I

552
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 2: really don't think that's an appropriate thing to say. And

553
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 2: don't just let that fall onto the shoulders of your

554
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 2: friend who is black or Asian or something different to you.

555
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 2: Don't let that fall onto your friend who's of a

556
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 2: minority group, who probably has to do that all the

557
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 2: time anyway, and probably feels even more uncomfortable about it

558
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 2: than you do. So just do that. Those little things

559
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: can make a huge difference.

560
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for touching on that. Hundred percent.

561
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: I love what you said about Yeah, it's you know,

562
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: it's uncomfortable, but it is one hundred percent more uncomfortable

563
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: for the person of minority. And I love what you

564
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: said about the brands too, because it is so important

565
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: and especially if a brand does want to thrive moving forward,

566
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: they will listen to the consumer. They have to.

567
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: Hmmmm. Absolutely, And I really hope that we do see

568
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 2: some change, you know, and after Black Lives Matter, isn't

569
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 2: you know at the center of the news cycle that

570
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: people still continue on with these actions because as I

571
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 2: said before, it's going to make the world better for everyone.

572
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: You know, inclusivity is inclusive of everyone, and equality is

573
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 2: for everyone, so it's going to make the world better.

574
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: Amazing. Well, let's switch gears a little bit and I

575
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: want to talk about your podcast. So you have your

576
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: own podcast called No Offense But which is a series

577
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: of conversations with women of where you break away from

578
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: stereotypes and get to the core of people's work and

579
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: what drives them and for anyone wanting to know a

580
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,479
Speaker 1: bit more behind the Black Lives Matter movement and the

581
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 1: injustices happening around the world and in Australia. I usually

582
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: has an episode with these topics that runs through it

583
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: very in depth, and I highly recommend you go listen.

584
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: I'll make sure I pop it in the show notes

585
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: because you know, iish I was so conscious because I

586
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: don't want you to sit here and you know, explain

587
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: stuff to the audience when we can go out and listen,

588
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: and we definitely have the responsibility to do that. So

589
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: I'll put that in the show notes for you guys.

590
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: But let's touch on In an episode, you did touch

591
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: on cultural appropriation, and I know this has been a

592
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: bit of a topic recently, and I want the listeners

593
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: to just be a bit more aware about cultural appropriation.

594
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: Can you explain a bit just what this concept is

595
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: and a bit more why it is so important to

596
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: be aware of this.

597
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So cultural appropriation, I guess, in a

598
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 2: nutshell is when you, well, someone takes something that they

599
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 2: might might find esthetically pleasing or cool or beautiful from

600
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 2: one culture and puts it on themselves without understanding the

601
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: struggle and the challenge that the people who that item

602
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 2: or practice belongs to have to go through every day

603
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 2: just for having it. So it's like when you're putting

604
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 2: your understandings of another culture over that actual culture, you know,

605
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 2: putting a package on it, modeling it and sometimes selling

606
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 2: it and profiting off it. And yeah, it's using a

607
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: culture that isn't yours for your own personal gain, and

608
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 2: it it happens a lot, you know, and not just

609
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 2: in terms of people wearing Indian headdresses to festivals, which

610
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 2: I think a lot of festivals have actually now banned

611
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 2: because of cultural appropriation. And that can be very very

612
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,439
Speaker 2: offensive to people who those headdresses actually belong to, because

613
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 2: they represent so much and also represents, you know, the

614
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 2: years of oppression and the genocide that goes along with

615
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: being an Indigenous person from those cultures. But it also

616
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 2: has happened with fashion labels. I mean, I think a

617
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 2: few years ago, maybe it was three years ago, Chanelle

618
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 2: actually released a boomerang as part of their spring summer collection.

619
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 2: So you know, that's so inappropriate and you can't just

620
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 2: take something that is so important to indigenous culture, here

621
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 2: are our First Nations people and just put a Chanelle

622
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 2: symbol on it and try and sell it for over

623
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 2: one thousand dollars.

624
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: I didn't even know that. That is crazy, one hundred percent,

625
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: and can you sort of explain? So, for example, I

626
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: know the Kardashians will often always wear their hair in braids,

627
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 1: and I hope I've got that term, right, I think,

628
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 1: I think it's called something else, but can you sort

629
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: of explain why that is so inappropriate.

630
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 2: A really good and clear example that I think is

631
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 2: super recognizable for a lot of reasons at the moment

632
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:29,959
Speaker 2: is the appropriation of black hairstyles. And you can see

633
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 2: people who really big in the public eye, like the Kardashians,

634
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 2: who often appropriate black hairstyles, and they do get called

635
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 2: out for it, but they do continue to do it.

636
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 2: And I think it's really important for people to realize

637
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 2: why it's such an issue. And it is because, you know,

638
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,240
Speaker 2: black women, especially black people, from when they were taken

639
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 2: taken from Africa and used as slaves, their traditional hairstyles

640
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 2: were were mocked and they were called ugly and uncivilized

641
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,959
Speaker 2: and disgusting, and they weren't allowed to show their hair

642
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 2: because sometimes white women would get jealous of it, and

643
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 2: so they would then wear these head raps that you see,

644
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 2: and it was even made a law that sometimes you

645
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: would have to wear a head rap if you're a

646
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 2: black woman with black hair. And then after that, you know,

647
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 2: black women then designed wigs because and weaves because it

648
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 2: was also part of the I guess stereotypical idea of

649
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: beauty that if you had black hair, because of all

650
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 2: these years of oppression already, then you would be ugly.

651
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 2: So they wanted to cover their hair and hide it

652
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 2: because if you had straight a hair, that made you

653
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 2: more desirable. And we even see that today. I mean,

654
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 2: you just have to google unprofessional hairstyles and what comes

655
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 2: up is black women with curly hair or afros, and

656
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: that is so crazy to me to think about that.

657
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: You know, just having my hairstyle is something that will

658
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 2: make me deemed unprofessional. And so then you know all

659
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 2: these hairstyles that Black people have created, cornrows and braids,

660
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: not only to keep up the health of their hair,

661
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 2: but also because it has cultural significance in terms of

662
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 2: showing things like you know where you're from, where I'm

663
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 2: from in the Caribbean, my grandma and aunties and the

664
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 2: women there. It's a really cultural, culturally traditional thing that

665
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 2: you sit on the steps on a Sunday and all

666
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 2: the kids would have their hair braided every single Sunday.

667
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 2: It's like it's a thing that brings people together. And

668
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 2: then so to see fashion labels and these big celebrities

669
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 2: then just wearing these hairstyles. Willy nilly because it makes

670
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 2: them look cool and having no understanding of the years

671
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 2: of tradition and also the years of oppression that come

672
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 2: with wearing a hairstyle. Someone like me, if I wear braids,

673
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 2: then someone might say I look ghetto, but if a

674
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 2: white person wears them, then they look really cool. So

675
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 2: it's this real double standard that people need to be

676
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 2: aware of. And like, there are so many other hairstyles

677
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: that you could do. You don't need to have cornrows,

678
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 2: you don't need to have those braids.

679
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for explaining that to the audience.

680
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: And I definitely, I definitely love what you said in

681
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: regards to you know, for us, it's just oh, I

682
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: want to look cool or I want to wear my

683
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: hair this way, but you need to think of it

684
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 1: from the minorities point of view of that years of

685
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: you know, oppression and that sort of stuff. So thank

686
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: you so much for explaining that. And like I said, guys,

687
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: please go and listen to Ayisha's podcast No Offense, but

688
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: it will be linked and there's so many good episodes

689
00:39:54,680 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 1: in there. Before we finished the interview, I wanted to

690
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: as you and we kind of touched on this, but

691
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: how can we keep showing up and doing the work

692
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: to ensure that this Black Lives Matter movement isn't just

693
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: you know, something that is happening now and trending on

694
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: social media, Like, how can we work towards ensuring this

695
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: is a long term, long term sorry movement?

696
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know, this start with you know,

697
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 2: the small things, and sometimes the small things aren't actually small.

698
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 2: You know, a small thing was people going to the

699
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 2: marches that happened. That was wonderful, you know, showing solidarity

700
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 2: in that way, being in the space supporting people, that's amazing.

701
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: Keep having these conversations with people that maybe still aren't

702
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,320
Speaker 2: there in terms of being progressive, not even being progressive,

703
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: just you know, having and open mind and challenging their

704
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 2: own way of thinking and really have a conversation with people,

705
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 2: because I think if you are putting in the work

706
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 2: in terms of finding influences of different ethnicities to follow,

707
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 2: finding different businesses that are owned by people of different ethnicities,

708
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 2: thinking about what type of media you consume in terms

709
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 2: of you know, for example, this was quite a famous one,

710
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 2: but I think it was maybe last year year before Sunrise,

711
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 2: they did this segment saying that Indigenous children Indigenous parents

712
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: can't care for their kids, or something ridiculous and offensive

713
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 2: like that. You know what, don't watch that show anymore.

714
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 2: Don't buy into that. Don't believe it. And if you

715
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 2: read something somewhere and you think it sounds a bit off,

716
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 2: then look into it further, because sometimes some of our

717
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 2: news sources can be really biased, and that's a really

718
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 2: huge problem because a lot of people think that they

719
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,720
Speaker 2: don't have the time to kind of find the facts

720
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 2: in there. But you know what, you do have the time,

721
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 2: and it is fun actually to find out more information.

722
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: It's really amazing to have the opportunity to open your

723
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 2: mind more, to consume more podcasts, to find different films

724
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 2: to watch in different documentaries, to have genuine conversations with people.

725
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 2: And I think it's so important to listen and when

726
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 2: someone tells you something, you know, if an Indigenous person

727
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 2: says to you, oh, that's racist, accept that and don't

728
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 2: try and fight it. And really, as I said before,

729
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 2: I think it's so important for everyone to take time

730
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 2: to sit with themselves and reflect on the world and

731
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 2: the society that they're operating in, how it benefits them

732
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 2: and how that keeps other people down and think about okay, well,

733
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 2: what can I do to change that? Or how can

734
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 2: I be an active ally? How can I support my friends?

735
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 2: And also not even your friends. You know, some people say, oh,

736
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,399
Speaker 2: you know, I have a black friend and that's enough.

737
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 2: It's kind of like, well, that's not really to have

738
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: a black friend. Great, good for you, but what are

739
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 2: you doing? Are you supporting them? Are you buying a

740
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 2: ticket to their show? Are you standing up for them

741
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 2: when someone says something about them when they're not there?

742
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 2: Like are you really having the conversations with your parents

743
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 2: or your grandparents over the dinner table when they might

744
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 2: say something that's not quite right? Just say something, you know,

745
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 2: not everything has to be a huge fight. Really, think

746
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 2: about who you're talking to, how you're talking to them,

747
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 2: and don't be afraid of it. I know it's hard.

748
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 2: Sometimes it can be hard, but honestly, it's hard for

749
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 2: us too, and we need people, we need non black

750
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 2: people to be helping us because this is hundreds of

751
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 2: years of work that we've been doing and we're still

752
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 2: doing it and it's really would be so nice to

753
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 2: have some help.

754
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: There, so so important. Thank you so much, Ayisha that

755
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: that last bet, Thank you so much for sharing that

756
00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,479
Speaker 1: with us, and I couldn't agree more. And I guess

757
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 1: I just wanted to say thank you so much for

758
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: making the time and coming on here and explaining these

759
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: concepts and giving us further at education. And like I

760
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: said before, like it is totally on us to take

761
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 1: responsibilities to have the hard conversations, to be educating ourselves

762
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 1: and to dig deeper. So yeah, I really appreciate your

763
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: time and thank you so much for coming on the show.

764
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, it was so nice to chat

765
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 2: with you.

766
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and where can the audience Obviously I will link

767
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: your podcast, but where can the audience sort of you know,

768
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: come and find you and engage and interact with you? Yeah?

769
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 2: Sure. So you can find me on Instagram at eh

770
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 2: ash that's double E s H A s H. Or

771
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 2: you can find Blackbirds on Instagram at b L dot

772
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 2: c k B dot ds so blackbirds without the A

773
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 2: and the I, And yeah, I'm always on there. You

774
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 2: can definitely send me a message, you can email me

775
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 2: hello at blackhiphenbirds dot net. But basically if you head

776
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 2: to the Instagram, all the infos there, and I think

777
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 2: it's really important to you know, have these conversations and

778
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 2: keep talking and don't feel afraid. And also don't forget

779
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 2: that Google is amazing and there's so much information out there.

780
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 1: And that's a wrap on another episode of the Rise

781
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: and Concer Podcast. I hope you got something valuable from it,

782
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: and I want to say a big thank you for

783
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: tuning in. I really really do appreciate it. If you're

784
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: craving more than don't worry, I've got you sorted. We

785
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: have our very own Rise and Conquer Community Facebook group

786
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: where hundreds of like minded women joined to share in

787
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 1: on stories, ask advice, and everything in between. I'd love

788
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: for you to join us. Just search Rise and Concer

789
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: Podcast Community or find the link in the show notes.

790
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: And if you loved listening as much as I loved

791
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 1: recording this episode, then please subscribe and leave a review.

792
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: It really helps us out. And if you think of

793
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,959
Speaker 1: anyone who would benefit or enjoy this episode, please share

794
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: it with them. You can also find more on Instagram

795
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: at risinconcor dot podcast and more from me your hosts

796
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: at Georgie Stevenson. Once again, guys, thank you so much

797
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,919
Speaker 1: for tuning in. This is a totally independent podcast, so

798
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: we really do appreciate every bit of support. Hope you

799
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: guys have an amazing day or night whenever you're listening,

800
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: and I'll talk to you soon