1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers. 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 2: Now, Hello and welcome the Happy Families Podcast. 4 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 3: So good to have you along today. 5 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 2: I am extremely delighted, so pleased to welcome Chanelle Coontos 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: to the Happy Families Podcast today. Chanelle Contos is a 7 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 2: leading advocate for sexual consent education in Australia and the 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 2: founder of the Teach Us Consent movement. We're going to 9 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 2: talk more about that movement shortly just before we kick 10 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: on with the podcast, though a quick heads up, some 11 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 2: of the discussions that we're going to be having in 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 2: this podcast will probably not be for small is that 13 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 2: the content is not explicit by any stretch. But we 14 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: are going to be talking about consent sexual issues and 15 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 2: making sure that we can reduce the amount of abuse 16 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 2: and increase the amount of respect that we see in 17 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 2: the way that kids are being raised, especially around this topic. 18 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 2: So if you've got young kids who are listening to 19 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: the podcast with you, may be in the car on 20 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 2: the way to school, this one might be one to 21 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: have listened to on your own first before you decide 22 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: whether to bring the kids in important discussion. Nevertheless, please 23 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: use your parental discretion Wisely, Chanel Contos has been a 24 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,919 Speaker 2: powerful voice for the urgent need for comprehensive consent education 25 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 2: in schools and a result of her work, we pretty 26 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 2: much have that across the nation now. She's also an 27 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 2: ambassador as am I for the Australian Government's Consent Can't 28 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 2: Wait campaign. Go to Consent dot gov dot au for 29 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 2: more on that, and she Noel continues to work towards 30 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 2: the future where young people grow up understanding the importance 31 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 2: of respect for relationships and the boundaries of consent. So 32 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: good to have you on the podcast this morning. Where 33 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 2: does this conversation find you? 34 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: I'm actually an Oxford at the moment, I just started 35 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: to studying again. 36 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: Wow okay, And it's early for you and it's late 37 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: for me because time zones are really hard. So delighted. Yeah, 38 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 2: de love to be able to talk with you about 39 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 2: this conversation. There will be some people, even in twenty 40 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 2: twenty four who didn't quite catch the whole teachers consent thing, 41 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: the thing where you probably unintentionally, I guess, became a 42 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 2: national spokesperson for consent. For those who are unfamiliar with 43 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: the story, can you please give us a sort of 44 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 2: a reader's digest feeling of what teachers consent is and 45 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 2: how you came to be doing what you're doing. 46 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, Teachers Consent started as a campaign, and it 47 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: started as a petition for consent education to be mandated 48 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 1: in the Australian national curriculum. It actually started as a 49 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: petition the concer education to be mandated in my local community. 50 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: And then because it got traction from all around Australia, 51 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: we pretty quickly expanded it to you know, make it 52 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,279 Speaker 1: inclusive of everyone in all schools. And in that process 53 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: we collected and published testimonies of sexual assault or rape 54 00:02:55,200 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: that occurred while people were of school age they think 55 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: could have been preventable or at least handled it in 56 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: a better way if they had a better understanding of consent. 57 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: That was supposed to emphasize the petition. So we ended 58 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: up getting almost fifty thousand signatures in that petition and 59 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: almost seven thousand people submitted these sorts of testimonies and 60 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: actually more did but we could only read and post 61 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: seven thousand because it got to a point where it 62 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: was a lot and we worked very closely across the 63 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: political spectrum for a year quite intensely, and then consent 64 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: education was mandated from kindergarten to year ten in all 65 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: Australian schools every single year in a nache appropriate way 66 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: as a consequence, which is really exciting. 67 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 2: Chanel, It's an incredible story. I don't want to glorify 68 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 2: or glamorize what occurred, because it's a sult, it's ripe. 69 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 3: It's just it's appalling. 70 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: And yet when you share the story that you've just shared, 71 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: sometimes it's easy to gloss over the reality that the pain, 72 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:09,839 Speaker 2: the violence, the awfulness of what occurred. I wonder if 73 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 2: in a way that you feel comfortable if you can 74 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 2: help people who are listening to this and maybe going oh, yeah, okay, 75 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: that's great, well done. 76 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 3: Good on you for doing that. 77 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 2: Can you help can you help us to understand the 78 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 2: gravity or the impact of these seven thousand plus testimonials 79 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 2: of primarily school girls, although not exclusively, who have endured 80 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 2: these challenges. You can you give us a bit more 81 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: context around that, again without sort of turning into too 82 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 2: something that it's not meant to be. 83 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: I think the context that is important is that, and 84 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: I think this was also what teachers consent did quite 85 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: specifically was we looked at normalized sexual violence, and I 86 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: think a lot of the context of teachers consent was 87 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: that these are things that happened when people were young, 88 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: but because of their lack of understanding around consent or 89 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: respectful relationships, they you know, never seek help about it. 90 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: They didn't really think much else about it. They kind 91 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: of labeled it as like an uncomfortable or unwanted sexual experience. 92 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: They never thought about it as potentially a crime or 93 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: something that they should tell a parent or a teacher about, 94 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 1: or you know, an older sibling or something like that. 95 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: And I think that normalization is really key here as well, 96 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: because it explains why because you know, yeah, as you said, 97 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: almost seven thousand testimonies, almost all of them were young girls. 98 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: Almost all of the perpetrators were young boys. Even when 99 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 1: the victims were boys in those testimonies, almost all the 100 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: time the perpetrators were young boys as well. And I 101 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: think when we think about that, it also helps us 102 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: understand how it could be possible that that sort of 103 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: scale of violence is being perpetrated in our schools. There's, uh, 104 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: there's so much I want to go into right now. 105 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: I actually I've written a whole book on different types 106 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 1: of rapists and perpetration and how you can prevent those 107 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: different things. So if you want to check that out 108 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: for more information, it's called Concentale Bear. But in brief, 109 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: there are forms of sexual violence that are easy to 110 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: prevent with education, and this sort of normalized violence that 111 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: occurs in teen years perpetrated out of ignorance, out of entitlement, 112 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: out of the fact that the main form of sex 113 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: education for young people these days in Australia and beyond 114 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: is pornography. Those sorts of acts of sexual violence can 115 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: be counteracted with adequate conversations and educations, and that's why 116 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: there's such a focus on it, I think, because they 117 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: also make up the majority of this sort of Yeah, 118 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: this context. 119 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 3: Consent light Bear is the name of the book. 120 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 2: I really appreciate the way you describe I'm going to 121 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 2: use the term the casual brutality of this just accepting 122 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 2: that boys be boys, or it's just the way things are, 123 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 2: or I didn't know, or there was, like you said, 124 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 2: this fundamental misunderstanding of what consent is and how it's 125 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 2: supposed to work, which leads to who I mean, These 126 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 2: experiences cast long shadows through the remainder of many of 127 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: these people's lives. This is not a oh, whoops, we 128 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: made a mistake. Let's just get on with it and 129 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 2: fist pump, We're good. These are much more serious things, Chanel, 130 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 2: You've become an ambassador for consent. Can't why it's federal 131 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 2: government initiative you and I are both involved with, as 132 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 2: well as Dan Prince pay and some other really wonderful people. 133 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 2: What's your role there and what do you think the 134 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 2: federal government's really trying to do here to help parents 135 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: and to help kids, and to help educators to deal 136 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 2: with this increasingly challenging problem. 137 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: The whole idea behind it is to encourage parents or 138 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: guardians or really anyone who has young people in their 139 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: life to take a step back and think, am I 140 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: currently equipped to answer these questions? Is there anything else 141 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: I could learn myself about this topic so that I 142 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: can feel more comfortable delivering it or you know, initiating 143 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: it or responding to it when it inevitably will come 144 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: up when you're as a young person. And the whole 145 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: point is, you know, consent education and these sorts of 146 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: conversations in the mainstream are a relatively new thing for 147 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: the general population. Obviously, some people would have had quite 148 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: specific education on all this stuff throughout their whole lives. 149 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: But the whole idea is that there's a very good 150 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: chance that this education skipped you. You might intuitively understand 151 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: it and know it, but we just want to help 152 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: you with accessing the language and helping you know kind 153 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: of what's age appropriate for different children, or what should 154 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: be happening, or what conversations should I be having with 155 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: my kids friends' parents as well to understand what's going on, 156 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: and what are the ways that I can, you know, 157 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: educate myself before I attempt to educate others. 158 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: So many questions that we really need to unpack here. 159 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 2: I want to because we're in the middle of school 160 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 2: this week. It's the end of school year. Everyone's I 161 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 2: mean this. There were so many stories, so many testimonials, 162 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 2: so many painful experiences that came through your website that 163 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: highlighted that this is the time of the year when 164 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: so much harm can be done if parents have got 165 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 2: kids heading to schools or already there. I guess in 166 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 2: some ways some people might say it's a bit too late, 167 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: but I don't know if it's ever too late to 168 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 2: have a conversation about consent. How do you talk to 169 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 2: parents about the things that they can say to their 170 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 2: kids and actually get through Because a lot of teenagers, 171 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,199 Speaker 2: I mean sixteen, seventeen, eighteen year olds, mum starts to 172 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 2: or dad starts to have a conversation about sex and consent, 173 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 2: a lot of them are going to roll their eyes 174 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 2: and be like, hello, you were born last century. 175 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 3: What do you know. 176 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: I think a few things are one the conversations can 177 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: be had from a really early early age. They just 178 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: don't necessarily have to be about sex or referring to 179 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: sexon anyway. 180 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, of course. 181 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, So you can normalize these conversations with young people. 182 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: You can teach and this is also what's in the 183 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: Australian curriculum from kindergarten. You can teach your kids to 184 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: ask permission, to hold someone's hand, to braid their hair, 185 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: to play with their toys. You can teach them how 186 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: to give permission or deny permission and show them that 187 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: will be respected when they exhibit that. So that by 188 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: the time you are talking about this in a sexual 189 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: way around high school, when it becomes very relevant for 190 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: young people, that it's just kind of like intuitive to them, 191 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: and they already understand these principles and they can just 192 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: apply it to this new lens of this new activity 193 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: that they may or may not be doing or will 194 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: be doing in the near future. And I also think 195 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: even though I can almost guarantee you if you have 196 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: these conversations with your kids, they will rotherize, but that 197 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: does not mean they are not listening. I think that 198 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: they will respond in a way that he is probably like, Okay, yeah, 199 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed to get it whatever again, unless you've had 200 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 1: this you built up over a long time and you've 201 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: normalized these sorts of conversations with them, But that doesn't 202 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: mean that it's not soaking in and that doesn't mean 203 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: that they're not appreciating that an adult is speaking to 204 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: them like an adult in this space. And I think 205 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: also a way to make sure that you're not just 206 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 1: like completely missing the market again to access the resources 207 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: that are provided to you by the Australian government or 208 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: other resources and figure out what are actually the challenges 209 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: that young people that your child is facing today and 210 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: then use your intuition as a parent or a caregiver 211 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: to know what maturity level they may be out in 212 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: that situation, and then how explicitly and what sort of 213 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: topics should be relevant to them. It really is a 214 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: conversation that needs to be had in various ways from 215 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: a really young age. But if you've gotten too schoolies 216 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: now and you're thinking, oh my god, they're off to 217 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: schoolies and I've never had this conversation with them before, 218 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: it's not too late to you know. You can text 219 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: them a resource, you can give them a call. You 220 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,199 Speaker 1: can remind them that consent is the law. You can 221 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: remind them that consent is important in any happy relationship. 222 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: There's definitely ways. From a farce end, a little reminder 223 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: to our young people who are currently gathering in various 224 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: parts of Australia. 225 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 2: Three things that have come out of this conversation. The 226 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 2: first is just the reminder. I spoke with Ben Matthews, QT, 227 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 2: law professor. You're probably familiar with his work, Chanel. He 228 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: did the Australian Child my Treatment Study. Incredible guy. Research 229 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 2: that he conducted shows that Australian adolescents boys are the 230 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 2: most likely to commit child sexual abuse, that is sexual 231 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 2: abuse on anybody who was under the age of eighteen 232 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 2: and child on child sex abuses pretty much at record 233 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 2: levels for all of the reasons that you've just highlighted. 234 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 2: This is such a wake up call for Australia, for 235 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 2: our parents and for our young people around. This second 236 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 2: thing that I wanted to highlight was just on that one. 237 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 2: On the fifth of November, I did a podcast where 238 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 2: I answered a question from a listener who said her 239 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 2: seven year old had come to her and said, I'm 240 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 2: a bit worried because my friend, who was also seven, 241 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 2: has got a girlfriend he wants to take pictures of 242 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 2: her vagina. And I just said, how wonderful it is 243 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 2: that this seven year old has gone to mum and 244 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 2: that Mum's created an environment where he knows I'm uncomfortable, 245 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 2: this feels icky, and the home situation is open and 246 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 2: supportive and judgmental, which brings me to the third thing 247 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 2: that I was going to say, and I guess it's well, 248 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 2: this is the question that comes off the back of 249 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 2: those two things. 250 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 3: What have you seen works when it comes. 251 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 2: To creating opportunities for open and supportive and non judgmental conversations. 252 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 2: A lot of parents number one don't know what to say, 253 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:33,719 Speaker 2: and number two, even if they know what to say 254 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 2: they feel pretty uncomfortable with it, like, how do you 255 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: just how do you get the conversation going if you 256 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 2: haven't gone there before. 257 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: I think that trying to remove this kind of like 258 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: societal and post shame on the topic needs to go. 259 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: It's obviously an uncomfortable conversation. Look, sexual assault is an 260 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: uncomfortable conversation, and of course there should be shame around 261 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: the fact that the rates of it in our society 262 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: are so high, and to that statistic of adolescent males 263 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: being the main perpetrators of child sexual abuse and sexual 264 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: assault in our country, you know, that's devastating, but we 265 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 1: can also look at that as an opportunity of how 266 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: to change that because there's a reason that we've slightly 267 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: not me. We're not perfect, and there's still very long 268 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: way to go, but there has been slight reductions in 269 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: child sexual abuse being perpetrated by adults because we do 270 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: have widespread conversations, because you know, we've got safeguarding measures, 271 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: different things in place to protect vulnerable children in that way, 272 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: and I think that parents having conversations often and also 273 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: being willing to learn themselves, because you know, sometimes these 274 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: conversations may lead to a young person being like, actually, no, 275 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: like this is what I think, or you know, this 276 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: is how this is, and you might have to go 277 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: back and look at that and see is that the 278 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: reality for this young person, or you know, have I 279 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: been held something wrong? Saying something that's problematic right now 280 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: and being willing to make it a two way conversation 281 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: as well. But one thing I also want to really 282 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: highlight before we move on from this conversation is that 283 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: I think a lot of parents have conversations around sexual 284 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: assault prevention with their daughters, but I don't think we've 285 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: gotten to the stage where they're having them with their 286 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: boys yet and realizing that that's kind of the number 287 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: one thing you can do as a parent to prevent 288 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: sexuals sould if everyone else was speaking to their children. 289 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: I don't want to make it seem as if I'm 290 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: attacking boys, because I'm not in any way, but the 291 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: statistics do not lie, and when we're seeing that high 292 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: rate of perpetration from this specific demographic, we all need 293 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: to be willing to confront the fact that the person 294 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: that we love so much may, when inundated with alcohol 295 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: and peer pressure, may act in a way that we 296 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: wouldn't be proud of if we haven't given them those 297 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: clear directions, and it is just such a cycle. So 298 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: like breaking that cycle and knowing that having these conversations 299 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: is not attacking young men and it's actually one of 300 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: the best things we can do for them. 301 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 2: Now, that's a conversation that I've had neumerous times when 302 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 2: I've presented around the country. I talked about on the 303 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 2: podcast as well, And I'm always worried that somebody's going 304 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: to jump down my throat and beat me up for 305 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 2: saying it and be really mad. But I actually think 306 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 2: we need to have some empathy for the potential perpetrator 307 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 2: or the perpetrator here, because the way that they will 308 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 2: carry throughout the rest of their lives every time this 309 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 2: conversation comes up, or if they go on to have 310 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 2: their own children, particularly daughters, if they have to imagine 311 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 2: their daughter going out on a date with somebody who 312 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 2: was just like what they were when they were a teen, 313 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 2: the damage, the psychological pain that they'll go through is 314 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: just extraordinary. Teaching our boys not to perpetrate is part 315 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 2: of the conversation. It's a really uncomfortable thing to say. 316 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 2: It doesn't feel nice to say it, and we're certainly 317 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 2: not pointing fingers, but it's also a reality that statistically 318 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 2: the guys are the guys are the accelerators, and the 319 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 2: girls of the breaks and when alcohol is involved and 320 00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 2: peer pression and all the complexities of social just social 321 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 2: challenges when you're an adolescent, it's such a hard thing. 322 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 3: Our time is almost up. 323 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 2: Consent dot gov dot IU is the website where you 324 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 2: can find out more about what both Chanell, myself, Dan 325 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 2: and others have to say about this such an important topic. 326 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 2: Chanell is also the author of Consent Laid Bare, which 327 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 2: has been a phenomenally influential book in this particular area. Chanell, 328 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 2: I guess if we were to wrap things up with 329 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: maybe your top piece of advice for anyone who's listening 330 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 2: right now, the one thing that you'd want people to 331 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 2: understand about consent and about their kids as we continue 332 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 2: this conversation and as our society evolves around. 333 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 3: This really important area over the next few years. What 334 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 3: would your. 335 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 2: One, your one mega slice of advice be that you 336 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 2: want everyone to be able to walk away and remember 337 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 2: as a result of our discussion today. 338 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: Well, I would start by really heavily suggesting everyone to 339 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: go to consent dot govt AU and just you know, 340 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: a look and see what you learn. If you learn nothing, 341 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: great you could. 342 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 3: But you've got learn nothing. 343 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah, but you might you very well might learn something, 344 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: and there's definitely no harm in having look at the resources. 345 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: I just really want to hone it on that point 346 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: we just said again, it can be really confronting as 347 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: a parent or a caregiver or something like that to 348 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: think about the fact that it's possible your own child 349 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 1: would ever perpetrate this. But the only way we can 350 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: truly stop this from occurring is through addressing the fact 351 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: that you know someone's perpetrating it, and again removing that 352 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: shame around the conversation and not making it seem like 353 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: an attack, but understanding it as a step towards a 354 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: more progressive, happier and you know, contrucive society, and being 355 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: willing to chat to our kids, knowing that even if 356 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: they're the nicest person in the world in all other instances, 357 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: that if we leave them to be educated on these 358 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: topics only from what they say on their screens, which 359 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: they are seeing from a very very young age and 360 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: quite explicit content that any young person can end up 361 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:21,479 Speaker 1: perpetrating a violent act and in a sexual way, and 362 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: we just need to be willing to think about the 363 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: best result for everyone being if everyone was willing to 364 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 1: have these conversations with young people. And I also really 365 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: quickly want to address I know that consent is in 366 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: the Australian education system at the moment, and that is amazing, 367 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: but that is a safety net for people who don't 368 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: have parents who they can have these conversations with all 369 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: people who you know. Unfortunately, there's devastating rates into family 370 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: violence in Australia, people who can't rely on that information 371 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: coming from home in that way. It's an amazing policy 372 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: that we have that, but it is the bare minimum 373 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: and it is really important that all parents that can 374 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: do step up and have these conversations consistently with their 375 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: young people in a way that you can't really rely 376 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: on students having with teachers because they are going to 377 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: be so much more personal. 378 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, Chanelle, it really does start at home. Unfortunately not 379 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 2: everyone gets it there, but such an important point. Chanel 380 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 2: Kontos in Oxford, really appreciate your generosity and getting up 381 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 2: so early to have a chat with me on the 382 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 2: Happy Families podcast. 383 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 3: Thank you. 384 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. 385 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 2: If the podcast has raised any issues for you, you 386 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 2: can visit Consent dot gov dot au and get more 387 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 2: information there for you or your family. If there are 388 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 2: more serious issues that have been raised, check out Parentline, 389 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 2: Kids Helpline or Lifeline. There's also one three yarn for 390 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 2: our Indigenous listeners. Chanel Kontos is a leading advocate for 391 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 2: sexual consent education in Australia, the founder of the Teachers 392 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 2: Consent Movement, the author of Consent Laid Bare, and ambassador 393 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: for the Australian Government's Consent Can't Wait campaign. We will 394 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 2: link to Consent Can't Wait, the Australian Government campaign in 395 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 2: the Happy Families show notes and for more information about 396 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 2: all the things we've talked about. 397 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 3: That website will be the best place to go. 398 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 2: We really appreciate Justin roll On, the producer of the 399 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 2: Happy Families podcast make it sound so great. 400 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 3: Thank you JR. 401 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 2: Appreciate your help and for more information about making your 402 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 2: family happier, visit us at Happyfamilies dot com dot au.