1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: It's The Heavy Family's podcast with doctor Justin Coilson, the 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: podcast for the time poor parent who just wants answers now, 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: and today we're talking about a subject that is top 4 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: of mind for doctor Justin Coilson, which is helping our 5 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: children find their tribe. I'm Susie Luke's joining me as 6 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: well as we get into this discussion. Doctor Justin Coulson. 7 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: Always great to see. 8 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 2: It's so good to be here. 9 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: Thank you for being here now helping our children find 10 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: a tribe. This is front of mine for you at 11 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: the moment right. What's brought it to the front of 12 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: your mind. 13 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 2: I got asked to write an article about kids making friends, 14 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: but perhaps more than that, I've just finished writing the 15 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 2: manuscript for my next book. It's about teenage girls. It's 16 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 2: being edited right now. It comes out early next year. 17 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 2: I'm so excited about it. What are the biggest issues 18 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: that teenage girls face. It's not just a teenage girl issue, 19 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: by the way. I mean this is universal even for 20 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: us as adults, but certainly for our kids. Is trying 21 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 2: to fit in social groups are so important as humans. 22 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 2: We are ultra social and when when well for teenage 23 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 2: girls in particularly quite often they'll what's the word I'm 24 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 2: looking for. I was going to say hook up, but 25 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: I can't use that word the way I might have 26 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 2: ten years ago. But they'll make friends with a whole 27 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 2: bunch of kids who they think it's good to be 28 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 2: friends with, but they're not really their people. And when 29 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 2: we don't have strong friendships, we tend to struggle. We're 30 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 2: more likely to experience anxiety and depression, We're more likely 31 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 2: to hate going to school, or you know, the kids 32 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 2: are at least, we just don't tend to flourish as well. 33 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 2: We struggle when we don't have rock solid friendships with 34 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 2: people who are like us, people who are part of 35 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 2: who we are. You know, you hear the phrase they're 36 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: my people belong you belong there. 37 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 3: That's right. 38 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: And when our kids find their tribe, something lights up 39 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: inside them. They feel so happy, they feel so joyful. 40 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 2: And I was thinking about this in relation to the 41 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: teenage girls and kids generally. What is it that makes 42 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: them join the tribe that isn't really their tribe? And 43 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 2: what can we do to help them find their Oh, this. 44 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: Is a good question, because yes, I'm looking forward to 45 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: the book about teenage girls, but I have a pre 46 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: teen boy who struggles in this area of friendship and 47 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: finding his people because he's so different to our other two. 48 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: The other two natural magnets for kids, but this one 49 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: is not. Not that he's repulsive, but he's really struggled 50 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: to find his people. So I'm keen to get your 51 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: ideas on this on how to help our children, because 52 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 1: it feels like something I shouldn't be involved with as 53 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: a parent in a way. 54 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 2: I know, do you step in or do you step out? 55 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: There's a couple of things that I need to highlight. 56 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: First thing is just because kids are shy or introverted 57 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 2: doesn't mean that they can't find a tribe. In fact, 58 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: usually just one significant other is often enough. But we 59 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 2: don't need to We don't need to stress that our 60 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,399 Speaker 2: kids are shy or quiet or introverted and therefore they're 61 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 2: not going to have any friends. Plenty of people I 62 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 2: know who are very very quiet, people who have some 63 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: deep and rich friendships. They've found their tribe just fine. 64 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 2: So the first thing that I would suggest. The second 65 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: thing is that idea that you mentioned, Susie. It's so 66 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 2: tempting as parents to step in and force friendships to 67 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 2: happen doesn't tend to work out so well. Most of 68 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 2: the time, our kids need to have some level of autonomy. 69 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 2: They might need a bit of encouragement, and certainly we 70 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: can arrange play dates, or we can arrange meetups, or 71 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: we can take them to the movies with friends, or 72 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 2: have parties or weekend gatherings to encourage friendships to grow. 73 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: But ultimately the kids have eventually got to do the 74 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 2: heavy lifting of sharing something of themselves and having that 75 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 2: reciprocated by another. So I've got three things that we 76 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 2: can do to help our kids find their tribe. 77 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I'm ready with pen 78 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: and paid. Well, actually, I've got my computer here with 79 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: me with an email open address to myself the subject 80 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: line helping kids find their tribe, and I'm just going 81 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: to take notes while you give it. 82 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: So good. 83 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: Well, I need the answer to this question about particularly 84 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: for one of our children to help. 85 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 3: Us, because he is shy, which is what you said, 86 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 3: is not a disqualifier for this, but he is also 87 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 3: joked about it. He is also slightly strange in that 88 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 3: he sees and processes the world uniquely to most of 89 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 3: the children. He's encountered. It's so beautiful when you unpack it. 90 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 3: And when he becomes an adult, it won't be an 91 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 3: issue because he, like you sort of learn how you 92 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 3: see the world differently. But at the moment, I think 93 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 3: it's a part of why he's The kids he's started 94 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 3: to hang out with he hasn't fit with because they 95 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 3: don't see the world he sees it. So what are 96 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 3: the three steps to help him? So we just want 97 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 3: to go here this kid, your friends go yeah, but 98 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 3: how do we do it? 99 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 2: Okay? The first one sounds really simple. 100 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 3: It's kind of. 101 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 2: Like the most obvious you know, from the University of 102 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: Dure kind of advice, and yet it's actually really complicated. 103 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: The first piece of advice is this, encourage them to 104 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 2: join a team or a group of some kind. And 105 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 2: this might be a church group, it could be a 106 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 2: football team, it could be I've got a friend. You know, 107 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 2: you're talking about people who are strange. I think this 108 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 2: is strange. He doesn't think it's strange at all. But 109 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 2: he's one of those. He's got those make believe swords 110 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 2: and medieval costumes and I can't know what it's cosplay. 111 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 3: No, No, it's a different like cosplay is more about 112 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 3: the cartoon character like heroes. 113 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yeah, even sort of stuff. And this is 114 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: completely normal to him. I think it's a bit strange, 115 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 2: but they love it, and I think how wonderful that 116 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 2: he's not on his own, that there are so many 117 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 2: people that actually are into that. Sometimes we might need 118 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: to experiment. And this is where it gets tricky, because 119 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 2: we might put them into this sport or into this club, 120 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 2: or into this hobby and after three weeks they say, 121 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: don't like it, haven't got any friends. And so we've 122 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,119 Speaker 2: got to deal with that issue of friendships take time, 123 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: and so does skill acquisition. We've got to work out 124 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 2: the balance of am I going to get them to 125 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 2: do it for twelve weeks, for a term, for a year, 126 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 2: for three years. At what point do I say, you know, 127 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 2: we've given that a good go, no friends, no skills, 128 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 2: Let's try something else. But as parents, we've got to 129 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 2: use our wisdom there. The reality is not every kid's 130 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: going to make friends at school. If you've got the 131 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 2: finances to shop around for schools, or if you've got 132 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 2: the opportunity unity to try different things that might work. 133 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 2: I know in our family that has been very important, 134 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 2: but not everybody gets to do that, and ironically, the 135 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: more expensive school wasn't necessarily the best school. We found 136 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 2: a much cheaper option that seemed to match our kids 137 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 2: far better. The second idea is one of my favorites, 138 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 2: and that is that we want to dispel the cult 139 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 2: of celebrity. Here's what I mean by that. Too often 140 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 2: our kids get caught up in wanting to be in 141 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 2: the wrong crowd. And when I say the wrong crowd, 142 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 2: I don't mean a bunch of kids doing the wrong thing. 143 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 2: I mean a crowd that's not attuned or aligned with 144 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 2: the natural leanings and strengths of our child. So it's 145 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 2: usually a child that desperately, like me when I was 146 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 2: a teenager, wants to hang out with the cool kids, 147 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 2: even though we didn't share any interests and we didn't 148 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: have anything in common, didn't even have shared values, And 149 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 2: in fact, I got mocked by the cool kids all 150 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 2: the time for trying to hang out with them because 151 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 2: I wasn't a cool kid. Being part of the school 152 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 2: celebrity group, though, is just such hard work if you're 153 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 2: not really part of it. It's super competitive, it's big personalities, 154 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 2: this cutthroat ethic. You know you're either in or you're out. 155 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: And I've got a wonderful friend, Rebecca Sparrow. She wrote 156 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: a book called Find Your Tribe, and she said this, 157 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 2: and I quote, don't think for a second that hanging 158 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: around with the cool group will make you seem attractive. 159 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 2: There's nothing attractive about someone who behaves like a sheep 160 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: and follows a leader. You're way better off hanging around 161 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: with your tribe. So if we can help our kids 162 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: to recognize that the cold of celebrity in the schoolyard 163 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: is actually meaningless, which is really hard when you're in 164 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 2: the schoolyard and it seems like it's everything. If we 165 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: can dispel that myth, powerful things can happen. One of 166 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 2: my kids recently said to me, Dad, I'm not one 167 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 2: of the cool kids, and I've made peace with that 168 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 2: because I know who I am and I know what 169 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 2: I stand for, and I don't like what the cool 170 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,119 Speaker 2: kids do. It's taken me this many years to figure 171 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: it out, but I've got a couple of good friends 172 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: and that's good enough for me. The last idea, this 173 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 2: is actually my favorite encourage introspection. And here's what I 174 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 2: mean by that kids get really excited or really anxiety 175 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 2: prone about their friends. We've already talked about that, and 176 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 2: they want to be popular on that kind of thing. 177 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 2: But I think that it pays to encourage them to 178 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 2: just be quietly introspective and ask the following two crucial questions. 179 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 2: Question number one, do I like myself when I'm around 180 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 2: these people? And question two? Do I feel like I'm 181 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: being true to who I am when I'm around these people? 182 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: Sorry my typing. Do I feel like. 183 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 3: I'm being. 184 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: To who I am when I'm around these people? 185 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 3: Yeah? 186 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 2: Do I feel like I'm being true to me? Do 187 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 2: I live with integrity when I hang around these people? 188 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: Because when your kids answer yes to those questions, it 189 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: means they've found their tribe, they've found their people. They're 190 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 2: their authentic selves, and they're around people who are supporting 191 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 2: that authentic So. 192 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 3: That's interesting because that takes potentially from just being around 193 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 3: someone who you can have fun with and enjoy. There's 194 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 3: another level of what your tribe is, and that's who 195 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 3: they enable you to be. 196 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 2: We're diving into values. I know we're getting a bit 197 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 2: deep for a conversation like this, but but this is 198 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 2: what our kids are craving, and unfortunately, the school yard 199 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 2: does not encourage this. The schoolyard's all about being popular, 200 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 2: it's all about being call it's all about being the 201 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: celebrity of the school, and so many of our kids 202 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 2: get caught up and just want to be around the 203 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 2: cool kid. If they can find others, though, who appreciate 204 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 2: them for who they are, who share common values and 205 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 2: allow them to be their authentic self, that is, if 206 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 2: they're able to say, yes, I like myself one I'm 207 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 2: around this person, I don't feel like I have to 208 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 2: try to be something that i'm not someone that I'm not. 209 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 2: That's when we're starting to help them define their people. 210 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 3: So good, very good. So if you've forgotten Susie was 211 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 3: taking and it just sent because she needed to later. 212 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 3: I actually it is quite funny because we you started 213 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 3: this conversation thinking about one of our children, I've finished 214 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 3: it thinking about a completely different child. Yeah, and the 215 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 3: help that we need to give him to navigate this space. 216 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 3: Doctor Justin Wilson, amazing conversation about helping our children find 217 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 3: their tribes. Thank you so much. 218 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 2: I just love being with you guys. 219 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: Thanks to find out more on this and many other 220 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: topics go to happy Families dot com dot au or, 221 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: of course, if you're interested in having doctor Justin Coilson 222 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: come and speak at your school or event, find out 223 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: more at Justincilson dot com