Speaker 1: Episode one, the making of High Five Together. In nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety nine, High Five burst onto the kids music scene
Speaker 1: Suck Suck. They were universally loved by kids and parents
Speaker 1: for their catchy pop music and wholesome vibes.
Speaker 2: Our director kept saying, more energy, more energy, give us more.
Speaker 1: That's really funny because Nathan and I took that really
Speaker 1: personally and we just kept going up and up and up.
Speaker 1: I was ready to explode. If you watched that first
Speaker 1: series I had, I was like, hi, everyone like I
Speaker 1: was that excited. At the end of the series, we
Speaker 1: were at a rat party and he said, I was
Speaker 1: never talking to you too. By the way, they even
Speaker 1: began rivaling Australian kids supergroup The Wiggles. There was one
Speaker 1: small difference though, which became a big problem for the cast.
Speaker 1: The business model.
Speaker 2: It was busy. I mean, it was exhausting. At the
Speaker 2: same time we were teenagers. We were loving the ride,
Speaker 2: but it was long hours.
Speaker 1: In this series we explore what was really happening behind
Speaker 1: the bubblegum illusion of Australia's most popular kids entertainers, and
Speaker 1: what happened when they were no longer paid to maintain
Speaker 1: the facade.
Speaker 2: You have your arguments, you have your ups and your downs.
Speaker 2: It's like if you're working with someone constantly every single
Speaker 2: day for ten years. Of course there's going to be
Speaker 2: times where you getting each other's way or across the line.
Speaker 2: But all in all, we were a great family and
Speaker 2: we worked really well together.
Speaker 1: We are journalists, Kate and Sophie Torbert, and this is outspoken.
Speaker 1: Plus I think we need to point out that we
Speaker 1: were ten years old when High five first burst onto
Speaker 1: the scene, and probably not their preschool demographic, but it's
Speaker 1: safe to say we still loved the band. They definitely
Speaker 1: did make a huge impression on me at the time,
Speaker 1: and I think that that is the key to High
Speaker 1: Fi's popularity, the fact that they didn't just appeal to
Speaker 1: their target demographic. It was also older people and parents
Speaker 1: who loved the music were fascinated by High Five. I
Speaker 1: need to know what was your favorite High Five song,
Speaker 1: because since doing the research, I have been listening to
Speaker 1: a lot of them and they are getting stuck in
Speaker 1: my head or this is a little bit embarrassing to admit,
Speaker 1: but at our school we had red faces where for
Speaker 1: those who aren't old enough to remember on hey, hey,
Speaker 1: it's Saturday, there was a segment called Red Faces where
Speaker 1: people would do skits and they'd get scored. So we
Speaker 1: had that at our school and we did a number
Speaker 1: of High Five performances. I think we did it to
Speaker 1: the song North, South East and Western. Also Animals, so
Speaker 1: they are my favorite. Let's throw on an upsot to
Speaker 1: remind listeners of these songs, so second Animals. I wonder
Speaker 1: if these are available on Spotify because I think I
Speaker 1: need to make my own High five playlist now. And
Speaker 1: High five will also iconic At Carols by Candlelight, they
Speaker 1: made Carols by Candlelight and it's it's never been the
Speaker 1: same since the original cast weren't on there on Christmas Eve. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The fashion takes me back so much as well, because
Speaker 1: there's so much layering going on. There's also a lot
Speaker 1: of pedal pushes and skirts over the top of pedal pushes.
Speaker 1: The hairstyles were also amazing. I remember Kelly always used
Speaker 1: to have these really cool twisty updos, lots of butterfly clips, yeah,
Speaker 1: butterfly clips, maybe a few slutstrands as well. And Tim
Speaker 1: his hair was always so spiky, so much hair gel
Speaker 1: going on there. Now, let's get into how it all
Speaker 1: began because the concept of High five was developed when
Speaker 1: Helen Harris and Posey Graham Evans joined forces and created
Speaker 1: a production company called Kids Like Us. And it's pretty
Speaker 1: interesting because Harris had already had great success in early
Speaker 1: childhood entertainment because she was the creator of Bananas in Pajamas,
Speaker 1: Oh Yeah, and Graham Evans actually went on to be
Speaker 1: the mastermind behind McLeod's Daughters, so very successful women. And
Speaker 1: the idea was to try and capture kids attention by
Speaker 1: blending educational theories with musical appeal. So Harris and Graham
Speaker 1: Evans worked on the concept with childhood educators and pitched
Speaker 1: the idea of High five to Channel nine, who snapped
Speaker 1: it up straight away. And it really helped at the
Speaker 1: time because the head of drama at nine had a
Speaker 1: young child. Now. The auditions to find the group were
Speaker 1: held at the ABC studios in nineteen ninety eight, and
Speaker 1: in an interview with Nathan Foley, he explained that he
Speaker 1: was just eighteen at the time and he got a
Speaker 1: call telling him that there were auditions being held for
Speaker 1: new kids shows and they were looking for five presenters, singers,
Speaker 1: dancers and actors. Now Nathan was one of three hundred
Speaker 1: people that turned up to the first audition, and the
Speaker 1: group was narrowed down until twenty five people remained. It's
Speaker 1: quite interesting because it sort of reminds me of pop
Speaker 1: stars back in the day and all of those talent shows,
Speaker 1: because the group was then split into five groups of five,
Speaker 1: and one of those groups contained Tim Harding, Kelly Crawford,
Speaker 1: Nathan Foley, Charlie Robinson, and Kathleen Dileong Jones, who went
Speaker 1: on to be the original members of High five Now.
Speaker 1: Nathan said that their voices jelled so well together that
Speaker 1: there was this real big aha moment and producers are like,
Speaker 1: that is our group now. They started to record the
Speaker 1: pilot at the ABC, and then when Channel nine took
Speaker 1: on the show, everything started to move really quickly. I
Speaker 1: think what really set High five apart was the music,
Speaker 1: because it was able to stand alone from the show.
Speaker 1: Even as a consumer of that show, my favorite bit
Speaker 1: was the start and the end of the episode because
Speaker 1: that's when they'd have the little concerts. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: interesting because the creators of High five took inspiration from
Speaker 1: the Spy Scales dance moves and they believed that preschoolers
Speaker 1: could copy them, and they really did. We saw it
Speaker 1: with songs like North, South, East and West. I mean
Speaker 1: the kids sometimes got a little bit confused which direction
Speaker 1: to go in. I think it seemed a lot cooler
Speaker 1: than The Wiggles as well, because the performers were wearing
Speaker 1: clothes that were very of the time, and they role
Speaker 1: models for the kids. Well. The group style was modeled
Speaker 1: on the fast paced nature of pop music, and in
Speaker 1: a recent interview, Nathan Foley reflected on the success of
Speaker 1: High Five and he put it down to the show's
Speaker 1: ability to relate to botho kids and parents, and he
Speaker 1: said parents could actually sit down and have a bit
Speaker 1: of a laugh as well. Again, he said the music
Speaker 1: was a very big part of it because, as you said,
Speaker 1: it was pop orientated and while lyrically it was for
Speaker 1: the kids, musically it was produced just like pop music,
Speaker 1: so if you did get rid of the lyrics, you
Speaker 1: could easily play it on radio. It's pretty crazy because
Speaker 1: in the same year that the show launched, Sony Music
Speaker 1: released High Five's debut album, which was called Jump and Jive,
Speaker 1: and it reached number thirty three on the ARIA album charts.
Speaker 1: What Play is My Mind looking back at this time
Speaker 1: is just how young the members of the group were
Speaker 1: when it first launched. So Charlie Robinson was the youngest
Speaker 1: she was only eighteen, while Kelly was the oldest at
Speaker 1: twenty five. And the idea was that High five weren't
Speaker 1: meant to be childhood educators, but they were meant to
Speaker 1: be more like older siblings or friends to the kids,
Speaker 1: and I think this really worked well. At the time,
Speaker 1: no one really knew how rapidly this show was going
Speaker 1: to take off, and it really didn't take long for
Speaker 1: High Five to become one of Australia's most success for
Speaker 1: musical groups. The show was actually broadcast daily into eighty
Speaker 1: one countries. They also topped the music charts, with four
Speaker 1: of their albums reaching the top ten and receiving five
Speaker 1: consecutive ARIA Music Awards for Best Children's Album and the
Speaker 1: original group also received three Logis for Most Outstanding Children's Program.
Speaker 1: And as you mentioned, they had this international fan base,
Speaker 1: which meant they were regularly touring across Australia, Britain, New
Speaker 1: Zealand and Singapore and merchandise was another huge part of
Speaker 1: their success, so High Five actually had a range at
Speaker 1: Kama which was not just clothing and accessories, but also
Speaker 1: included dinnerware, games, craft products, backpacks, luggage, Christmas and Easter confectionery,
Speaker 1: and even a jumping castle and carousel. Now success didn't
Speaker 1: come easy though. The young group members worked really hard.
Speaker 1: So they had forty five episodes to record each series,
Speaker 1: and they spent three months each year recording the show.
Speaker 1: So on a Sunday they would get their scripts and
Speaker 1: then they'd spend three days rehearsing what they were going
Speaker 1: to film, and then two days filming it. Now, the
Speaker 1: filming days started very early in the morning and didn't
Speaker 1: end until seven or eight at night, and in terms
Speaker 1: of rehearsals, this involved learning scripts off by heart for
Speaker 1: their segments, as well as new songs because they didn't
Speaker 1: have an AUTOQ. And when they weren't filming, they toured
Speaker 1: for seven months of the year, doing three one and
Speaker 1: a half hour shows a day, six days a week
Speaker 1: around Australia, Asia, New Zealand and the whole of the UK.
Speaker 1: And after all of that they were allowed one month
Speaker 1: off a year. I didn't realize that they were working
Speaker 1: the cast members this hard. Now, despite the very grueling schedules,
Speaker 1: there still wasn't enough time for them to tap into
Speaker 1: the American market, so another High Five was actually created,
Speaker 1: and in a recent interview, Nathan Foley spoke about how
Speaker 1: he nearly ended up in hospital from the exhausting schedule.
Speaker 1: Let's throw to what he said.
Speaker 2: It was busy. I mean it was exhausting. At the
Speaker 2: same time, I think there's not a lot of groups
Speaker 2: in the world that actually do the TV thing but
Speaker 2: also do the recording also, so go and visit the
Speaker 2: children's hospitals and also have no time. You know, we
Speaker 2: were teenagers were loving the ride, but it was long hours.
Speaker 1: Now, while people often compared High Five and The Wiggles,
Speaker 1: there was a major difference between these two kids entertainment groups,
Speaker 1: which was the business model. So the original members of
Speaker 1: The Wiggles actually created their own concept and therefore they
Speaker 1: owned the franchise and merchandising rights, whereas with High Five,
Speaker 1: their members were paid a salary by the production company
Speaker 1: which created them. So in terms of money, the Wiggles
Speaker 1: definitely reigned supreme. In two thousand and eight, they topped
Speaker 1: business magazines Business Reviews Weekly annual list of top earning
Speaker 1: entertainers with forty five million dollars. High five ended up
Speaker 1: coming in fifth place that year with eighteen million. However,
Speaker 1: as I said, the members of High five did not
Speaker 1: hold equity. I would really love to know what their
Speaker 1: salaries were at the time and to have seen the
Speaker 1: growth during the success.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, it seems like the production company did look after
Speaker 1: the original faces of High five. But the thing is,
Speaker 1: as soon as you left the group, you didn't get
Speaker 1: paid anymore, so you're not living off the royalties like
Speaker 1: the Wiggles. I mean in saying that the Wiggles did
Speaker 1: write their own songs, it sounds like High five weren't
Speaker 1: involved in that actual creative process. So I understand perhaps
Speaker 1: not making royalties off the songs themselves, but they were
Speaker 1: the faces of the brand. Well, their personal ip was
Speaker 1: the brand. When you look at some of the merchandise
Speaker 1: back then, it was literally cartoons based on them, like
Speaker 1: they were the faces of this brand. I did see
Speaker 1: recently that Sophia Bush was complaining about when she was
Speaker 1: working on One Tree Hill that they often got used
Speaker 1: to do ads and never got paid anything because they said, oh, well,
Speaker 1: that's just to promote the show. That's the difficulty. When
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of young people who were really eager
Speaker 1: for their big break. They'll sign anything just to get
Speaker 1: their foot in the door, and unfortunately those contracts have
Speaker 1: long standing consequences. Yeah, and I think because everyone knew
Speaker 1: how much the Wiggles were making and then saw High
Speaker 1: Five were making a lot, you just assume that the
Speaker 1: talent on the show is also rolling in it. And
Speaker 1: Nathan recalled in an interview how he received a lot
Speaker 1: of backlash when he appeared on I Will Survive after
Speaker 1: leaving High Five, and people were saying he was too
Speaker 1: loaded to go on the show and he didn't need
Speaker 1: the money, and he said, well, unfortunately, that's actually not
Speaker 1: the case. Did you ever feel like there was a
Speaker 1: bit of competition between High Five and the Wiggles? Well,
Speaker 1: as a kid, I love the Wiggles, but I feel
Speaker 1: like I progressed to High Five, even though I was
Speaker 1: probably too old to like High Five. And you would assume,
Speaker 1: because there were only three big kids bands at the time,
Speaker 1: that there would be some sort of competition, because really
Speaker 1: it was High Five, the Wiggles, and to a lesser
Speaker 1: extent than Holy Dook God, I've totally forgot about the
Speaker 1: Hooly Doolies. But Nathan Foley has confirmed that there was
Speaker 1: literally no competition between the bands. They said that they
Speaker 1: used to do photo shoots together and they have actually
Speaker 1: remained friends. Nathan even performed at the Wiggles reunion tour
Speaker 1: back in twenty twenty for the Bushfire Appeal. Isn't that
Speaker 1: so wholesome? I love the fact that there wasn't anything
Speaker 1: unsavory going on behind the scenes. Two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: sadly was the beginning of the end for the original
Speaker 1: group when Kathleen announced she was pregnant and son Park
Speaker 1: was brought in as her temporary replacement while she was
Speaker 1: on maternity leave. And while Kathleen was intent on returning
Speaker 1: to High five in two thousand and seven, she decided
Speaker 1: to make her decision a permanent one to focus on motherhood.
Speaker 1: So while Kathleen was the first member to leave, by
Speaker 1: the end of two thousand and eight, all the original
Speaker 1: cast members had been replaced. So this is in a
Speaker 1: span of two years. I totally forgot this. But Tim
Speaker 1: was the next original member to leave the group, and
Speaker 1: he left because he got injured in a serious motorcycle
Speaker 1: accident in June two thousand and seven. So the poor
Speaker 1: thing ended up fracturing his spine and he was in
Speaker 1: a wheelchair for six weeks, and his injuries left him
Speaker 1: unable to keep up with the pace of High Five's performances,
Speaker 1: and he was replaced by his understudy, Stevie Nicholson. He
Speaker 1: officially ended up leaving the group in November two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven after recovering from his injuries. Things were starting
Speaker 1: to crumble because just three months later, Charlie decided to
Speaker 1: leave the group because she wanted to pursue acting, and
Speaker 1: Casey Burgess was brought in as Charlie's replacement. Big changes
Speaker 1: were also happening on the business side of things, so
Speaker 1: the Nine network and production company Southern Star purchased the
Speaker 1: High five brand in March two thousand and eight, and
Speaker 1: this meant the original creators Harris and Graham Evans were
Speaker 1: no longer involved in the franchise, and just seven months
Speaker 1: after this, Kelly announced she would be leaving the group
Speaker 1: at the end of the year to explore other options.
Speaker 1: A month later, Nathan said he would be leaving to
Speaker 1: focus on his adult music career. Then in December, Kathleen's replacement,
Speaker 1: Sun Park, revealed she too would be leaving as she
Speaker 1: had only really signed on to be a temporary replacement. Now,
Speaker 1: based on all of these exits, rumors started swelling that
Speaker 1: Southern Star, who was the new production company, had dumped
Speaker 1: Kelly and Nathan because they wanted to recruit younger and
Speaker 1: cheaper replacements, and it was reported that Nathan and Kelly's
Speaker 1: farewell at Karras by Candlelight was going to be a
Speaker 1: strained affair, with sources close to the Grip claiming the
Speaker 1: pair had been jilted by the production company. To make
Speaker 1: matters worse, allegedly, Kelly and Nathan had been dropped without consultation,
Speaker 1: and according to a source, Nathan was allegedly the last
Speaker 1: year that his High Five days were numbered. So apparently
Speaker 1: what happened is he stopped for petrol on the Northeast
Speaker 1: coast and a guy at the petrol station said to him, Hey,
Speaker 1: my brother just got your job yesterday. Now this was
Speaker 1: the first time he'd heard he was being replaced. That
Speaker 1: is so crushing. What are the odds of him stopping
Speaker 1: at the specific petrol station that his replacements brother is
Speaker 1: working on like the High five production team must have
Speaker 1: been for Fox says now, there were media reports circulating
Speaker 1: about this, and the source was spilling all of this
Speaker 1: news to a journalist. I mean, let's be honest, I'd
Speaker 1: assume that the source was Nathan. Well, look, they tried
Speaker 1: to cover Nathan's tracks because they did say he refused
Speaker 1: to comment on the matter, and quoted him saying, look,
Speaker 1: I really don't want to talk about it. I've got
Speaker 1: a contract until Christmas and I intend to honor it.
Speaker 1: When the main person in the story he says I
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about it, that means they've already
Speaker 1: spoken behind the scenes. Yeah. Well, at the time, Sunpark
Speaker 1: had to come out and deny she had felt pressure
Speaker 1: to leave the group alongside Kelly and Nathan, and she
Speaker 1: also reiterated that it was Kelly and Nathan who had resigned.
Speaker 1: Looking back, I do think it seems quite feasible that
Speaker 1: the decision around out seeing Kelly and Nathan was down
Speaker 1: to money, because the original members of the group were
Speaker 1: on very high salaries, which was a problem when you
Speaker 1: then start bringing these new people in. Also, it becomes
Speaker 1: an issue because they were doing so much touring. So
Speaker 1: when there's extensive touring, maybe the company thought, fuck, we
Speaker 1: can't afford this. I suppose it does make sense from
Speaker 1: a financial perspective to replace them with younger talent, and
Speaker 1: the new members ended up being a decade younger than
Speaker 1: Kelly and Nathan and presumably a lot cheaper to employee
Speaker 1: for concerts. That being said, I think it was detrimental
Speaker 1: to the overall brand because, as you said, Kate, the
Speaker 1: original members, they were on lunchboxes, they were on all
Speaker 1: of the merch. Everyone loved those cast members, and I
Speaker 1: don't think that they've ever been as relevant since they
Speaker 1: got rid of all of the original cast members. Well,
Speaker 1: Channel nine clearly thought that they could just replace the
Speaker 1: original cast and everything would be fine. They recommitted to
Speaker 1: five new series to be aired until twenty thirteen. However,
Speaker 1: only three of these series ended up being produced, and
Speaker 1: they had this plan that they thought that they didn't
Speaker 1: need to rely solely on the appeal of the cast
Speaker 1: members as individuals, but it was clear they began backtracking
Speaker 1: by season two because they said that they were trying
Speaker 1: to recreate the success of the earlier episodes by capturing
Speaker 1: that earlier innocence, and in the thirteenth and final series
Speaker 1: of High five and twenty eleven they even went back
Speaker 1: to reintroducing fans to the old songs in a bid
Speaker 1: to make it popular again. Well, it does make sense
Speaker 1: because all of the kids had grown up by then,
Speaker 1: so they wouldn't really know any different. I do find
Speaker 1: it interesting that they said that their initial strategy was
Speaker 1: to not concentrate on the cast members as individuals, because
Speaker 1: when they brought over Casey Burgers to replace Charlie Robinson
Speaker 1: used to be on Girls TV. Do you remember that
Speaker 1: shel TV? Girl TV. I think a lot of our
Speaker 1: listeners will remember it. It's like it's a girl. Don't
Speaker 1: get that mad head. I've got enough for those songs.
Speaker 1: So she already had a bit of a profile in
Speaker 1: the children's entertainment space, so I thought she was a
Speaker 1: really clever pickup. That being said, they were probably fearful
Speaker 1: that they would have the same thing in this second
Speaker 1: generation of High Five. They'd slowly lose class members and
Speaker 1: lose relevance and want more money. Yeah, it will happen again. Yeah. Well.
Speaker 1: By twenty twelve, nine were forced to sell High five
Speaker 1: to a Malaysian equity group called Ajion's following financial difficulty
Speaker 1: at the network, and this new production company shifted High
Speaker 1: Five's commercial focus to the Southeast Asian market, and they
Speaker 1: also wanted to have new group members, so the audition
Speaker 1: process was filmed and actually turned into a documentary style
Speaker 1: film called Some Kind Of Wonderful, which premiered exclusively through
Speaker 1: Hoyts Cinemas and after extensive touring, this new group released
Speaker 1: a spinoff show called High five House, which was filmed
Speaker 1: in Singapore and Malaysia between twenty thirteen and fifteen. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's pretty crazy. I wasn't aware of this High five House.
Speaker 1: It's pretty wild to think how long the brand actually
Speaker 1: lasted though, from nineteen ninety nine till twenty fifteen. They
Speaker 1: kind a good run. No, well, they still continued their runs.
Speaker 1: So in twenty sixteen, the Nine Network renewed its partnership
Speaker 1: with the High five franchise and announced they were planning
Speaker 1: to revive High five with the new cast in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: and while it would feature a newcast and set, Nine
Speaker 1: retained the original team of producers and writers, and the
Speaker 1: show was filmed in Malaysia and aired at the start
Speaker 1: of twenty seventeen on nine Go Now. A second series
Speaker 1: was planned for twenty eighteen, but filming was halted and
Speaker 1: the Australian production office was closed. The brand then relocated
Speaker 1: to Singapore and all five members left the group, so
Speaker 1: temporary touring members were used for the remainder of twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: with the franchise continuing to employ non permanent performers for
Speaker 1: touring purposes in twenty nineteen. So it seemed like at
Speaker 1: the end they were just like, can anyone just sing
Speaker 1: and dance in this group? The songs were really good.
Speaker 1: If you've got strong writing with songs, I think that
Speaker 1: is going to set you in a good stead. But
Speaker 1: the fact is kids want to know the performers they do.
Speaker 1: And the difference with High Five compared to the Wiggles
Speaker 1: at that time was they actually were a little bit
Speaker 1: diverse in that they had females and males. And I
Speaker 1: know everyone absolutely loved Kathleen because she was Filipino. And
Speaker 1: I think as a kid, you really aligned to your
Speaker 1: favorite member in the group. It might be one that
Speaker 1: looks like you or has similar attributes to you. And
Speaker 1: I think when they started replacing them with whoever, it
Speaker 1: lost that sparkle. Yeah, now that's where we are going
Speaker 1: to leave things today. On next week's episode, we'll be
Speaker 1: diving straight into all the juicy scandals, including a controversial
Speaker 1: men's magazine shoot, a sex scandal, and a secret engagement.
Speaker 1: Plus we will explore where the original cast members are now.
Speaker 1: I can't wait for that. I cannot wait now. This
Speaker 1: podcast was recorded on the traditional land of the Ghana
Speaker 1: people of the Adelaide Planes. We pay respect to elders
Speaker 1: past and present and if you do enjoy the show,
Speaker 1: we would love to see you share about it on
Speaker 1: your Instagram stories. And thank you so much again for
Speaker 1: being an outspoken Plus subscriber. We really appreciate it.