WEBVTT - Why your HECS is changing

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily

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<v Speaker 1>ohs oh now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 2>the seventh of May.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm zara, I'm Billy.

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<v Speaker 2>The federal government has announced it will wipe three billion

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<v Speaker 2>dollars in student debt and offer payments for some students

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<v Speaker 2>undergoing mandatory placements.

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<v Speaker 3>These announcements come.

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<v Speaker 2>A week before the federal budget and in the wake

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<v Speaker 2>of recommendations made to the government about how to form

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<v Speaker 2>the sector. So Billy on today's podcast, we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>explain what the changes to HEX could mean for you

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<v Speaker 2>and how the placement payments will work.

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<v Speaker 3>Before we get there, though, what's making headlines.

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<v Speaker 1>The families of two missing Australian brothers have formally identified

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<v Speaker 1>their bodies in Mexico. Concerns for Jake and Callum Robinson,

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<v Speaker 1>along with their America friend Jack Carter Road, were raised

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<v Speaker 1>last week after the three men failed to arrive at

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<v Speaker 1>an Airbnb in the Baja California region of Mexico. Authorities

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<v Speaker 1>believe the brothers and Road were all killed by single

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<v Speaker 1>gunshot to the head following a confrontation with thieves. Three

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<v Speaker 1>people have been arrested. The Department of Foreign Affairs in Trade,

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<v Speaker 1>along with the Australian Embassy in Mexico and Australian Federal

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<v Speaker 1>Police are assisting local authorities with the investigation.

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<v Speaker 2>Telstra has announced it will delay closing its three G

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<v Speaker 2>networks until the end of August. The telco previously said

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<v Speaker 2>it would shut down its three G networks in June,

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<v Speaker 2>but set its delayed plans to ensure the closure won't

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<v Speaker 2>stop customers calling triple zero. Telstra is urging customers to

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<v Speaker 2>check their devices and upgrade to four G before the shutdown.

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<v Speaker 2>Vodafone and TPG have already shut down their three G networks,

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<v Speaker 2>while Optus has plans to end three D services in September.

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<v Speaker 1>Median national rents have reached a new record high of

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<v Speaker 1>six hundred and twenty seven dollars a week, according to

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<v Speaker 1>the latest figures from property data firm core Logic. Rentals

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<v Speaker 1>were most expensive in Sydney and Canberra, where median weekly

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<v Speaker 1>rents reached seven hundred and seventy dollars and six hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and seventy four dollars respectively. Per saw the biggest increase

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<v Speaker 1>in prices over the last twelve months. With a fourteen

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<v Speaker 1>percent rise. Rents across Australia increased by eight point five

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<v Speaker 1>percent in the twelve months to April.

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<v Speaker 2>And today's good news, the Australian women's three x three

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<v Speaker 2>basketball team has qualified for the Paris Olympics. The game,

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<v Speaker 2>which made its Olympic debut at Tokyo twenty twenty, is

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<v Speaker 2>a condensed version of basketball. Three players aside compete on

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<v Speaker 2>a half court with a single hoop. The Australian women's

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<v Speaker 2>team qualified for Paris after the Gangaroos beat Canada nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>sixteen in Japan. And if you want more sport news,

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<v Speaker 2>you can sign up to tda's sport newsletter. We will

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<v Speaker 2>throw the link to that in.

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<v Speaker 3>Today's show notes.

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<v Speaker 2>So Billy, A couple of weeks ago, we did a

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<v Speaker 2>podcast episode. It was about the Australian University's Accord final

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<v Speaker 2>report that is a mouthful, which made nearly fifty recommendations

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<v Speaker 2>to the government about how to create change in Australia's.

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<v Speaker 3>Higher education sector.

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<v Speaker 2>Now a bit over a month later, we are circling

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<v Speaker 2>back to this story because the government has made two

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<v Speaker 2>major announcements off the back of these recommendations. One of

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<v Speaker 2>them is about HEX, so about student debt, and the

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<v Speaker 2>other is about placements that university students have to do

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<v Speaker 2>for their degrees.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's take them one by one. The HEX story,

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<v Speaker 1>this was absolutely massive. It broke at midnight on Saturday night.

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<v Speaker 3>We enjoyed a one am text from one of our journalists.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, who had written a great piece on it. So

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<v Speaker 1>what was in that announcement.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'll get to explaining the announcement in just a second.

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<v Speaker 2>I do want to just set this scene a bit,

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<v Speaker 2>so for anyone that might be a bit out of

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<v Speaker 2>university or didn't go to university. I just want to

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<v Speaker 2>explain what we're talking about when we talk about HEX.

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<v Speaker 2>So the Higher Education Contribution Scheme HEX, which is under

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<v Speaker 2>the Higher Education Loan Program HELP, but we're just going

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<v Speaker 2>to call it HEX. That makes sure that students can

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<v Speaker 2>go to university without having to pay for their course upfront. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>students pay off their HEX debt to the government after

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<v Speaker 2>they begin earning above a certain threshold, and those payments

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<v Speaker 2>are what's called indexed over time. I'll explain what that

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<v Speaker 2>means in just a second. The report I referred to

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<v Speaker 2>earlier looked into how HEX was functioning here in Australia,

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<v Speaker 2>and it found that the system needed to be modernized.

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<v Speaker 2>It recommended overhauling the indexation of student debts. So indexation

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<v Speaker 2>is basically when the amount that a student owes increases

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<v Speaker 2>to reflect inflation, so rising prices on the first of

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<v Speaker 2>June each year. So if we're to use an example

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<v Speaker 2>of what happened last year, on the first of June

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<v Speaker 2>last year, anyone with HEX that went up seven point

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<v Speaker 2>one percent. Now that was a record that was huge,

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<v Speaker 2>but it was in line with what we had seen

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<v Speaker 2>the rise of inflation. Now, the review suggested that a

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<v Speaker 2>cap on indexation might avoid significant increases like we saw

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<v Speaker 2>last year from happening again. And it also suggested that

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<v Speaker 2>instead of always being pegged to the rate of inflation,

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<v Speaker 2>that indexation should be pegged to either the rate of

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<v Speaker 2>wage growth or the rate of inflation, whichever is lower.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So just to recap, we have HEX, which is

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<v Speaker 1>thousands of dollars in debt that pretty much every person

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<v Speaker 1>who goes to UNI has, and then every year how

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<v Speaker 1>much students owe increases and that's to do with rising inflation. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>as we know, we've been in a cost of living

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<v Speaker 1>crisis and the rate of inflation has been extremely high

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<v Speaker 1>and that was reflected in the indexation that happened last year.

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<v Speaker 1>And then we have this report that does a big

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<v Speaker 1>review into what is going on with HEX and if

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<v Speaker 1>anything can be improved, and they say that lots of

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<v Speaker 1>things can be improved and what.

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<v Speaker 2>They call for an overhaul. They basically say it's not

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<v Speaker 2>working as intended. People are unable to pay back this

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<v Speaker 2>debt and it's just becoming a huge issue. So they

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<v Speaker 2>make these really big recommendations. That's a month ago, and

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<v Speaker 2>then over the weekend the government finally announced what they

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<v Speaker 2>were going to do about it.

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<v Speaker 3>And so what is that announced?

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<v Speaker 1>It the big building, but finally there.

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<v Speaker 2>So just in time for budget which is hands down

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<v Speaker 2>a week today, the federal government announced that they are

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<v Speaker 2>planning to wipe three billion dollars in student debts. I

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<v Speaker 2>think we often hear these headlines about wiping debt. We

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<v Speaker 2>certainly hear it a lot in the US.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I was going to say, we don't hear a

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<v Speaker 1>lot in debt.

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<v Speaker 3>We don't remember overhearing it.

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<v Speaker 1>But Joe Biden has been doing that in the US.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I just want to explain exactly what that means.

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<v Speaker 2>In an Australian context. So basically, this concept of wiping

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<v Speaker 2>debt is the government announcing that they're going to change

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<v Speaker 2>the way that hex is indexed. So the announcement was

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<v Speaker 2>that they will base student debt indexation on whatever is

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<v Speaker 2>lower out of wages or inflation. So remember I said

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<v Speaker 2>it was always pegged on inflation, but now they've gone

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<v Speaker 2>with that recommendation and they're now going to have the

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<v Speaker 2>option if wages are lower, they will do it to

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<v Speaker 2>that lower rate.

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<v Speaker 1>And that also goes to the conversation that we've been

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<v Speaker 1>having in recent years that wages have not been increasing

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<v Speaker 1>at the same race as inflation.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think the really important part of this announcement

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<v Speaker 2>is that the government have said that they will backdate

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<v Speaker 2>it to June of last year, So that means that

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<v Speaker 2>anyone that had that seven point one percent indexation applied

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<v Speaker 2>to their debt that will be wiped.

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<v Speaker 3>Under the government's announcement and or to go down.

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<v Speaker 2>To the lower rate of three point two percent, which

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<v Speaker 2>is what wage growth was at.

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<v Speaker 1>Just to be clear, though, the seven point one percent

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<v Speaker 1>isn't entirely going, it's just being replaced by the three

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<v Speaker 1>reduced it's been reduced to the three point two percent increase,

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<v Speaker 1>which is in line with how much wages increased at

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<v Speaker 1>that point last year exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>So his Education Minister Jason Clair explaining what that means.

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<v Speaker 4>This will wipeout what happened last year and make sure

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<v Speaker 4>it never happens again. It means for someone with the

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<v Speaker 4>average help debt of twenty six thousand, five hundred bucks,

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<v Speaker 4>up to two hundred dollars will be wiped from their

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<v Speaker 4>outstanding help loans.

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<v Speaker 2>And just to give you a sense of what this

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<v Speaker 2>actually means in real number terms, So if you were

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<v Speaker 2>to look at your HEX debt and it says that

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<v Speaker 2>you owe thirty five thousand dollars, you're looking at just

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<v Speaker 2>over one thousand, five hundred dollars in credit under the

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<v Speaker 2>government's new scheme. If you're someone that's looking at sixty

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<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars of debt, for example, you're looking at around

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand, six hundred dollars in credit. Obviously this will

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<v Speaker 2>change depending on how much your HEX is, but this

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<v Speaker 2>is just a rough indicator that the government's given us.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's a massive change. What happens now doesn't need

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<v Speaker 1>the support of the opposition.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I feel like there should always be a

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<v Speaker 2>bit of an asterix when we make these big announcements.

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<v Speaker 2>So government is doing big thing asterix, it still needs

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<v Speaker 2>to pass parliament, So the Government still needs to introduce

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<v Speaker 2>and pass legislation in parliament. So it's going to be

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<v Speaker 2>included in the budget, but it needs to pass through

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<v Speaker 2>parliament to become law, and the Government doesn't have enough

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<v Speaker 2>seats in the Senate to pass legislation by itself, so

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to need to rely on either the opposition

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<v Speaker 2>or some of the crossbench to support it.

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<v Speaker 1>And so have we heard from the opposition who do

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<v Speaker 1>be clear when we say opposition but about the coalition

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<v Speaker 1>which is the Liberal Party and the National Party.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we have so.

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<v Speaker 2>Shadow Education Minister Sarah Henderson said that the government's announcement

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<v Speaker 2>is quote all trickery and deceit and doesn't fix Labour's

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<v Speaker 2>student debt trap. It's pretty strong words there. If I'm

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<v Speaker 2>to summarize the opposition's main criticism of the government's announcement,

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<v Speaker 2>they kind of see it as a band aid solution.

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<v Speaker 2>So in their eyes they're saying the government has mismanaged

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<v Speaker 2>the economy, that inflation has been rising, really really rapidly

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<v Speaker 2>and that that's the actual problem, and that the government

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<v Speaker 2>isn't fixing that problem, they're just fixing the kind of

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<v Speaker 2>flow on effects of that, and so that is what

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<v Speaker 2>the coalition is criticizing the government about. Shadow treasurer Angus

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<v Speaker 2>Taylor said, and I quote the best way to address

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<v Speaker 2>growing hextet is to fight Labour's homegrown inflation at its

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<v Speaker 2>source by reigning and spending and strong budget management. Just

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<v Speaker 2>to be clear, the coalition there are criticizing the government's announcement,

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<v Speaker 2>but they haven't said whether or not they will support

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<v Speaker 2>it in parliament, so we'll have to wait and see

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<v Speaker 2>when it's introduced. The other group that the government would

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<v Speaker 2>be looking to for support our members of the cross Bench.

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<v Speaker 2>So we heard from Independent Senator David Pocock who said

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<v Speaker 2>that the announcement was a good first step, but that

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<v Speaker 2>without proper reform, student debt will continue to skyrocket. So

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<v Speaker 2>it'll be really interesting to see how this goes in

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<v Speaker 2>Parliament once the Government does actually introduce the piece of legislation.

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<v Speaker 1>So just to be clear that basically it needs the

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<v Speaker 1>support of either the opposition or the crossbench, both slightly

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<v Speaker 1>critical of it, but I think at the end of

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<v Speaker 1>the day, it's probably safe to presume they will get

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<v Speaker 1>the support of one of those, maybe with some amendments.

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<v Speaker 1>So okay, So that is a huge story. On Sunday

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<v Speaker 1>when we posted it, the audience reacted in quite.

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<v Speaker 3>A large way, strong manner.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a lot of interest in it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>But at the start of this you said that there

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<v Speaker 1>were two announcements, and I understand the other one is

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<v Speaker 1>about placements, which we have also done an episode on

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<v Speaker 1>and we will put it in the show notes. What

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<v Speaker 1>did they say about that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So just before I go to the announcement, just

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<v Speaker 2>to clarify, when we're talking about placements in this context,

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about when students have to complete practical placements

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<v Speaker 2>and professional training in order to get their degrees. So

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<v Speaker 2>many people listening to this have had to either do

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<v Speaker 2>it themselves or watch someone they know undergo these placements.

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<v Speaker 2>They're typically unpaid and they can last several weeks. When

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<v Speaker 2>we did You're Right, Billy this pod episode last month,

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<v Speaker 2>we heard from a couple of students about what the

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<v Speaker 2>conditions were like on their placements. As a reminder, here's

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<v Speaker 2>some of what we heard.

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<v Speaker 5>Studying to zootherapy and as a requirement to graduate, we

0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:08.960
<v Speaker 5>must attend placements from eight to four and sometimes five pm,

0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:14.440
<v Speaker 5>depending on your placement, and during that time we do

0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.840
<v Speaker 5>not get paid a single cent of money. We do

0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:26.720
<v Speaker 5>not get any accommodation allowances, any travel fees, any food expenses,

0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:30.959
<v Speaker 5>nothing like that. So a lot of us would have

0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:35.600
<v Speaker 5>to seize our job, our casual our part time jobs

0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.920
<v Speaker 5>to accommodate our time for this. And a lot of

0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.120
<v Speaker 5>my friends had been saving up just so that they

0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.720
<v Speaker 5>have enough money to attend placements, and when they graduate,

0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:49.320
<v Speaker 5>they will be ending up with no money because they

0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.480
<v Speaker 5>have been using their savings throughout their time on placements,

0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:56.760
<v Speaker 5>which is one big concern that we are having at

0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:57.280
<v Speaker 5>the moment.

0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.200
<v Speaker 1>I think many people listening can relate to that. I

0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.240
<v Speaker 1>know that when I was at university, I needed to

0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:06.240
<v Speaker 1>do an unpaid internship and it was absolutely mandatory that

0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:07.319
<v Speaker 1>it be unpaid.

0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.080
<v Speaker 2>I think I was one of the few degrees that

0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:11.920
<v Speaker 2>wasn't required to do one. Everyone else I know, yes,

0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:13.080
<v Speaker 2>had to do one or many.

0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a huge issue for a lot of university degrees,

0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:20.120
<v Speaker 1>and so that is why this big review recommended that

0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:24.320
<v Speaker 1>the government changed that. Yeah, what did they announce yesterday.

0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:28.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so the government announced financial support for students who

0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:32.880
<v Speaker 2>are completing these mandatory practical placements. Now I'll go into

0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.600
<v Speaker 2>the specifics I do just want to flag again this

0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.240
<v Speaker 2>also has to pass through Parliament. So what we're saying

0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:40.640
<v Speaker 2>now is what the government is proposing, but it's not

0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:41.280
<v Speaker 2>law yet.

0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.000
<v Speaker 3>It still needs to pass through parliament.

0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:45.160
<v Speaker 2>But let's run through what we do know based on

0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.360
<v Speaker 2>what the government has announced. So from the first of

0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:53.320
<v Speaker 2>July twenty twenty five, nursing, teaching, midwifery and social work

0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.480
<v Speaker 2>students will be eligible for three hundred and nineteen dollars

0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:01.439
<v Speaker 2>and fifty cents a week during placements. By the government's estimates,

0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:05.119
<v Speaker 2>the initiative will be available to seventy three thousand university

0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.520
<v Speaker 2>and tafe students, and not everyone will be.

0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:10.199
<v Speaker 3>Able to access this support.

0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.600
<v Speaker 2>So even if you are doing these placements, you're not

0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.000
<v Speaker 2>necessarily going to be able to get it. It's going

0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:18.079
<v Speaker 2>to be means tested, which means that some students will

0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:22.440
<v Speaker 2>be excluded depending on their personal financial and living situation.

0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.520
<v Speaker 2>And it's also important to note I think that other

0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:29.640
<v Speaker 2>payments like O study or Commonwealth rent assistance won't be impacted.

0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:33.080
<v Speaker 2>By this new placement support, so they won't interact in

0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:35.040
<v Speaker 2>any way or it won't negate you from being able

0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:35.760
<v Speaker 2>to access that.

0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.680
<v Speaker 1>And what has the response been to that announcement?

0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.720
<v Speaker 2>So the National Union of Students welcome the payments but

0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.920
<v Speaker 2>said they don't go far enough. And I think that

0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:48.800
<v Speaker 2>it was interesting reading through our comment section when we

0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.760
<v Speaker 2>posted this, because there were a lot of people asking

0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:55.200
<v Speaker 2>about how the courses that the government chose were chosen.

0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:57.760
<v Speaker 2>There are a lot of you know, psych students or

0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.560
<v Speaker 2>physio students in our comments section saying I have to

0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.080
<v Speaker 2>do hundreds of hours of unpaid placement.

0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.200
<v Speaker 3>Why are other students getting this and not me? And

0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:06.840
<v Speaker 3>I think.

0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.640
<v Speaker 2>That that goes to this idea of clearly everyone recognizes

0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:12.400
<v Speaker 2>something needs to be done, but how you go about

0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.480
<v Speaker 2>it and how far it can go seems to be contested.

0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:18.720
<v Speaker 2>And then from the opposition we had an our quote

0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.360
<v Speaker 2>from Sarah Henderson. While the Coalition will consider this proposal

0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.760
<v Speaker 2>once the detail is announced, we are concerned about a

0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:28.520
<v Speaker 2>range of issues, including who will bear the ultimate cost

0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:30.360
<v Speaker 2>and eligibility requirements.

0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.400
<v Speaker 1>These are two big announcements that are super relevant to

0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.120
<v Speaker 1>young audiences. Thank you so much for listening. To today's

0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.280
<v Speaker 1>episode of The Daily oz and if you're listening on Spotify,

0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:43.280
<v Speaker 1>you'll see that there's a little Q and a section

0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:45.560
<v Speaker 1>on the episode page where you can tell us what

0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.240
<v Speaker 1>you thought of today's episode. We would absolutely love it

0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.520
<v Speaker 1>to hear from you. Thank you so much for listening,

0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:51.960
<v Speaker 1>and we will be back tomorrow.

0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:57.800
<v Speaker 5>My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Adunda

0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:03.000
<v Speaker 5>Bungelung Kalgotin woman from Gadahn. The Daily oz acknowledges that

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<v Speaker 5>this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadigal

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<v Speaker 5>people and pays respect to all.

0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:09.840
<v Speaker 3>Aboriginal and Torrestrate island and nations.

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<v Speaker 5>We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

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<v Speaker 5>both past and present.