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Speaker 1: Obviously I mentioned in the opener this morning this tragic

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Speaker 1: situation in Queensland, as many of you would have heard about,

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Speaker 1: where we've seen a couple their lives taken allegedly killed

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Speaker 1: by a seventeen year old who was out on bail.

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Speaker 1: Now he has since been charged with two counts of murder.

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Speaker 1: The discussion in Queensland's now turned to strengthening bail laws.

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Speaker 1: The Queensland Premier said the government would consider changing the

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Speaker 1: law further if needed. She said, the first thing is

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Speaker 1: there will be a full coronial inquiry and of course

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Speaker 1: too this young man is now on murder charges and

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Speaker 1: there'll be a full court case. There will be a

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Speaker 1: thorough police investigation. That's what the Premier, Anastasia Palichet said.

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Speaker 1: In Queensland. Now, we put the question yesterday without knowing

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Speaker 1: that this had happened, just with our own issues with

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Speaker 1: youth crime here in the territory, to the Chief Minister

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Speaker 1: whether he would change the bail laws around the presumption

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Speaker 1: of well, the presumption of bail, but so basically unlike

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Speaker 1: in the Northern well, unlike here in the Northern Territory,

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Speaker 1: Queensland has a presumption against bail, but somehow this person,

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Speaker 1: obviously on bail, has still taken the lives of two

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Speaker 1: innocent people. Now, I think the tragedy really does open

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Speaker 1: up that discussion around Australia about whether we need to

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Speaker 1: change the way that we deal with these bail laws

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about youths. Now joining me on the

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Speaker 1: line to talk further about this is Robin Lamley, the

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Speaker 1: member for our lun Good morning to you, Robin.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie wolf Aom congratulations.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Robin. That's very kind.

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Speaker 1: Now, I tell you what it looks as though you

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Speaker 1: and I were thinking the same thing this morning. I

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Speaker 1: know that you've just issued a press release saying that

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Speaker 1: the horrific and tragic killing of two innocent pedestrians in

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Speaker 1: Queensland yesterday, allegedly by a juvenile in a stolen car,

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Speaker 1: should be a major wake up call for the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory government and our seriously escalating problem of youth crime

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Speaker 1: across the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 3: Robin, tell me what you think needs to happen here.

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Speaker 2: Well. A few months ago, Katie, we had a similar

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Speaker 2: incident in Alice Springs. A man was writing his bike

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Speaker 2: home from work at night and he was killed by

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Speaker 2: a juvenile in a car. His name was Shane Powell.

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Speaker 2: And I guess part of the media release I put

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Speaker 2: out this morning was to compare the response of Anastasia Palichet,

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Speaker 2: who immediately provided leadership and said we will consider changing

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Speaker 2: laws so this sort of thing doesn't happen. Comparing her

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Speaker 2: response to the response of our Chief Minister, who pretty

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Speaker 2: much said it was a very sad and tragic incident and.

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Speaker 1: That was it.

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Speaker 2: This should be a major wake up call. What happened

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Speaker 2: in Queensland should be a major wake up call for

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Speaker 2: the Northern Miritory government. Things are completely out of control

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Speaker 2: in Alice Springs. We've had the most horrific crime stats

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Speaker 2: delivered to us last week. I think it was over

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Speaker 2: the proceeding twelve months, and crime is just escalating out

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Speaker 2: of control. So I guess my point is, can it

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Speaker 2: get any worse before this government actually starts to take

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Speaker 2: the approach that Anastagia paliche described, and that is to

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Speaker 2: look at what's happening here and to strengthen our laws.

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Speaker 2: She said, we absolutely will, she said, strengthen our laws.

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Speaker 2: We've heard nothing like that from Gunner at all.

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Speaker 1: And Robin yesterday, before I even had any detail of

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Speaker 1: this terrible tragedy in Queenslight, we had the Chief Minister

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Speaker 1: on the show. I actually asked him about about our

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Speaker 1: bail laws figures and whether he'd look.

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Speaker 3: At changing anything.

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Speaker 1: I asked for a yes no answer, and he said no,

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Speaker 1: nothing will be changed now. That followed on, of course,

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Speaker 1: from the news over the weekend in Alice that twenty

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Speaker 1: five unlawful entries I believe had occurred.

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Speaker 3: I just don't know what else.

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Speaker 1: We can do as a community to really get the

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Speaker 1: message through to the government at the moment that we're

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Speaker 1: really concerned about this and enough's enough.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think mister Gunner is he's shut down. He's

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Speaker 2: not a very smart individual to begin with. But when

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Speaker 2: you see things like this happen, when you see crime

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Speaker 2: escalating not just in Alice Springs but right across the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory and people losing their lives and people packing

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Speaker 2: up and leaving the territory in droves because of it,

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Speaker 2: you can't just put your head in the sand, and

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Speaker 2: that's what he's doing. I think he's wedded to the

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Speaker 2: recommendations of the Royal Commission into Child Protection and Juvenile Justice.

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Speaker 2: I think he thinks that if he follows that to

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Speaker 2: the letter, then in the long term things will come good.

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Speaker 2: But in the meantime the place is falling apart. You

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Speaker 2: just can't take that narrow, black and white approach. You

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Speaker 2: have to, like Atastasia Palachet has done, you have to

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Speaker 2: be realistic. You have to look at what's not working,

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Speaker 2: and there's plenty that's not working in the Northern Territory well.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think the point really well worth

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Speaker 1: making this morning is we both know that Anastasia Palichet

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Speaker 1: is obviously a labor leader. You know, she's with the

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Speaker 1: Australian Labor Party. She stepped out, she's obviously done exactly

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Speaker 1: what needed to be done in this case in Queensland

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Speaker 1: and said that they need to take a really close

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Speaker 1: look at this following on from the tragedy. And I

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Speaker 1: think that realistically across Australia we need to be taking

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Speaker 1: a closer look at the way that we're doing things

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Speaker 1: when it comes to to use bail laws.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. A man lost his life in Alice Springs on

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Speaker 2: the twenty second of October last year, just a few

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Speaker 2: months ago, under virtually the same circumstances. We need to

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Speaker 2: take action. The Northern Territory government, the Attorney General, Selina Ubo,

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Speaker 2: the Health Minister, the Police Minister, Manison and Gunner. They

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Speaker 2: need to take action. We cannot tolerate this any longer.

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Speaker 2: We have all had enough, Katie. It's things are falling

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Speaker 2: apart down here and I just feel so badly for

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Speaker 2: the police that are subjected to this legislation that allows

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Speaker 2: these kids back on the street within a couple of

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Speaker 2: hours of them being apprehended. It must be completely and

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Speaker 2: utterly demoralizing. Things are so broken in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: Like most of us, just feel completely gutted to sit

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Speaker 2: back and watch things the way they are and the

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Speaker 2: prospect of them getting even worse.

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Speaker 3: Robin.

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Speaker 1: We did actually, just a little while ago heard from

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Speaker 1: Daniel Rochford, the CEO of Tourism Central Australia, and he

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Speaker 1: spoke about his concerns around tourism and also spoke about

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Speaker 1: the issues that you've got in Central Australia with crime, Robin.

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Speaker 1: I know that the NT News is reporting today that

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister has written to the Allice Springstown Council

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Speaker 1: encouraging them to provide activities for youths to address the

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Speaker 1: art of controlled crime problem in the town. Obviously, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm certainly guessing that you do not feel that this

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Speaker 1: is the right response.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think that's just petty politics. Ganna has had

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Speaker 2: a problem with the Alice Springs Council for years now

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Speaker 2: because of this deadlock they've found themselves in over this

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Speaker 2: gallery that we probably will never ever see. Are wasting

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Speaker 2: his time writing a bloody letter, useless letter to the

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Speaker 2: Alice Springs Council to that effect, really just epitomizes how

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Speaker 2: useless this bloke is. You know, use your time, Michael

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Speaker 2: Gunner to look at the legislation. We are there. We

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Speaker 2: are members of the Northern Territory Legislative Assembly. Our job

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Speaker 2: is to legislate to the benefit of Territorians. Don't waste

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Speaker 2: your bloody time. I'm sorry, but I'm so wild about this.

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Speaker 2: So I just think it's, you know, it's he's tried

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Speaker 2: to deflect attention and responsibility away from himself when in

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Speaker 2: fact he is the Chief Minister. He presides over all

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Speaker 2: the mechanisms we have pretty much to keep people safe

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Speaker 2: in the Northern Territory, and he's wasting his time playing

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Speaker 2: petty politics with the mayor of Alice Springs will get

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Speaker 2: over it and start doing things that will make a

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Speaker 2: real difference changing the legislation. So these kids kind of

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Speaker 2: immediately get out on bail and reascend and potentially kill

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Speaker 2: people and kill themselves or harm themselves. I mean, we're

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Speaker 2: in such a mess, Katie. It really is quite a

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Speaker 2: desperate and horrific situation that we're facing in Alice Springs

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Speaker 2: that I suspect more broadly across the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Robin, look, I can understand your absolute disappointment at

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Speaker 1: this point in time. You and I have spoken about

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Speaker 1: this issue on so many occasions. Look, the phone lines

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Speaker 1: have lit up, so I am going to have to

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Speaker 1: get ready to wrap up.

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Speaker 3: But Robin, just.

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Speaker 2: Very quickly, can I just say one thing. Sure, congratulations

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Speaker 2: for getting this award, Katie. You hold each and every

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Speaker 2: one of us in that Northern Territory Legislative Assembly accountable,

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Speaker 2: give us a hard time and get the best possible

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Speaker 2: results from us. Katie, that's why people like you. And

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Speaker 2: keep up the good work thanking me on that list.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much, And I know that you and

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Speaker 1: I have certainly had some you know.

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Speaker 3: Some barbed exchanges.

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Speaker 1: Exactly it does, and I really, you know, I try

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Speaker 1: my best to hold everybody to account. I know that

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Speaker 1: sometimes it can be tough for you guys coming on

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Speaker 1: this show, especially if you know I'm going to give

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Speaker 1: you a touch up for it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, and you hold us to account and

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Speaker 2: give us a hard time, Katie, thank.

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Speaker 3: You, Robin. I appreciate your call.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Robin. We'll talk to you again soon. And well,

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Speaker 1: look the phone lines have lit up. A lot of

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Speaker 1: you are wondering this morning exactly what the differentiation is

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Speaker 1: between the Queensland bail laws and the Northern Territory bail

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Speaker 1: laws when it comes to youths.

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Speaker 3: Maddie, Hepwork's going to be.

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Speaker 1: In just after ten o'clock, so we might go through

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Speaker 1: that a little bit more with him.

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Speaker 3: I need to take a closer look.

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Speaker 1: But my understanding at this point in time is that

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Speaker 1: here in the Northern Territory, obviously we spoke about this

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Speaker 1: yesterday with the Chief Minister Michael Gunner. Understanding is that

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Speaker 1: here in the Northern Territory there is the presumption of

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Speaker 1: bail unless you've committed a prescribed offense. That's my understanding

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Speaker 1: that there is the presumption of bail. Now following on

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Speaker 1: from an interview that I heard with the Premiere of Queensland,

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Speaker 1: Anastasia Palichet, earlier this morning. The difference with them is

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Speaker 1: that there isn't the presumption of bail. But tragically this

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Speaker 1: incident in Queensland still happen. So their laws, as I understand,

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Speaker 1: are actually tougher than ouse.

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Speaker 3: But like I said, I am going.

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Speaker 1: To double check that because they did actually so, the

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Speaker 1: Queensland government, they did strengthen their laws recently to obviously

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Speaker 1: go against that presumption of bail for youths, to not

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Speaker 1: have that presumption of bail unlike us.

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Speaker 3: Here in the territory. I think that this is really

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Speaker 3: opened up a.

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Speaker 1: Discussion that we need to be having all around Australia

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Speaker 1: at the moment.

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Speaker 3: Is it appropriate that.

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Speaker 1: A use if they break the law, and if they're

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Speaker 1: continuing to break the law, are allowed and they have

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Speaker 1: that presumption of bail. Is that appropriate? So many of

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Speaker 1: you are saying to us that no, it's not