Speaker 1: Don't take candy from strangers. It's one of the first
Speaker 1: things you learn as a kid. What if the man
Speaker 1: handing out sweets actually made them himself. Well, families would
Speaker 1: most likely think that this is a kind of a
Speaker 1: Willy Wonka type figure who was just doing business. But
Speaker 1: as it turned out, this man was Dean Coral, a
Speaker 1: man who between nineteen seventy and nineteen seventy three killed
Speaker 1: upwards of twenty eight boys age between thirteen and twenty.
Speaker 1: This is the case of Dean Coral, the candy man.
Speaker 2: Oh, the candyman.
Speaker 1: Can't hey nice one? We harmonized in a joke.
Speaker 2: We both write to start It's not welcome to not
Speaker 2: another crime podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm George Dellow, I'm Sammy Peters, I'm a journalist. I
Speaker 1: am not. But I'll tell you what if you were
Speaker 1: to skip ahead and just listen to the story, go
Speaker 1: right ahead and do that. The time code is in
Speaker 1: the show notes. But can I say you're not gonna
Speaker 1: want to do it this week?
Speaker 2: No? Can I tell her?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Can I tell the listeners what? Ol friend Taylor said?
Speaker 2: Shout out high Taylor. If you're listening and you this episode,
Speaker 2: she will She's she's okay. So Taylor works with me,
Speaker 2: and she has told me that she loves our podcast,
Speaker 2: but she loves the most messed.
Speaker 3: Up stories your best.
Speaker 2: And she says sometimes the ones that don't have really
Speaker 2: gruesome details are boring.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's not nice to say boring.
Speaker 2: No, but what she has said.
Speaker 1: That tweet that's like imagine dying in a horrific way
Speaker 1: and someone skips over it.
Speaker 2: That episode of the podcast is boring because that is Taylor.
Speaker 1: She met Taylor. By the way, Can I just say
Speaker 1: that Taylor sent me a very funny It was like
Speaker 1: a meme of like a a survey after meeting someone,
Speaker 1: going did you like me? Or with friends?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good bye.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: She said that there is another crime podcast that she's
Speaker 2: always loved called Morbid, which HS well and when she said, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I can listen to yours, because
Speaker 2: I love Morbid so much. And she said to us
Speaker 2: the other night that now she finds the Morbid chat
Speaker 2: up top really boring because ours is so good and
Speaker 2: she loves that so much. So no offense to the
Speaker 2: girls from Morbid, but we're more.
Speaker 1: On than yeah, absolutely, well, anything else we have got
Speaker 1: attitude and energy. That's what we always bring. We bring attitude.
Speaker 1: We bring energy every since goddamn week, and you.
Speaker 2: Can back I always bring attitude. I don't know if
Speaker 2: I always bring energy.
Speaker 1: Well, look as we went through the story, your energy
Speaker 1: to drop off a little bit because sorry is awful.
Speaker 2: We're recording this intro straight after we recorded their story proper.
Speaker 2: And that's why I was confident the story proper story.
Speaker 1: I thought it was your new story proper like I
Speaker 1: did a hand, yes, yessay, just say no, it's like
Speaker 1: a gang story proper or I went met Taylor the
Speaker 1: other day, which was so much fun. We went to
Speaker 1: and I was.
Speaker 2: Like, may I say, we're not wink talking about Taylor
Speaker 2: swift Wink.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we were not hanging out with Taylor swift
Speaker 1: Wink in Elwood the other day. But yeah, So I
Speaker 1: had not met Taylor before. Loved Taylor. But I said
Speaker 1: to you before because at the end of the year
Speaker 1: we've had both had huge years. And I said to you,
Speaker 1: I'm only going to go for one drink. I can't.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Another mutual friend of ours was having her like annual
Speaker 2: Christmas house.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I said, I can only go for one drink.
Speaker 1: I'm too tired. We stayed so much. I went in
Speaker 1: pretty hot to that party and we had a great time.
Speaker 2: In real hot. You were the one that said, I
Speaker 2: don't I can't stay longer than probably won drink.
Speaker 1: I'm going to drive.
Speaker 2: I'm so tired.
Speaker 1: I was like, that's fine, that's fine.
Speaker 2: Maybe you do what you want to do. And then
Speaker 2: I was the one saying to you when we were
Speaker 2: walking to a bar after our friends plays, I don't
Speaker 2: think I'm want to go to the bar. I want
Speaker 2: to go home, and you were like, well, come on, one drink,
Speaker 2: more drink and Taylor doesn't even remember the bar.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but so much fun. But yeah. We ended
Speaker 1: up playing this card game for a long time. Any
Speaker 1: someone brings out a card game and everyone went.
Speaker 2: No, yes, because of my calling it a card game,
Speaker 2: you're making it sound like it was like it. No,
Speaker 2: you make it sound like she brought out a deck
Speaker 2: of cards and then we're playing a game. No. The
Speaker 2: card game was called Stir the Pot, and the cards
Speaker 2: are it's just a bunch of cards that have questions
Speaker 2: on them to ask the group designed to stir the pot,
Speaker 2: which is the worst idea for a game ever, and
Speaker 2: our friend whose house it was at like everyone had
Speaker 2: just arround. Everyone was stone hold sober. It was the
Speaker 2: middle of the day, it was like light sunlight, and
Speaker 2: she brought out this game and started reading out questions
Speaker 2: that were things like who who in the group looks
Speaker 2: the most like they need a shower. And she kept
Speaker 2: reading out these questions and I was just looking at her,
Speaker 2: like back to the whole group, saying, hey, this is
Speaker 2: about idea, this is about it.
Speaker 3: We shouldn't play this.
Speaker 2: This is a bad idea, This is a bad idia,
Speaker 2: this is a bad idea, and she just kept looking
Speaker 2: at and asking what questions.
Speaker 1: I love that it was. It was so much fun.
Speaker 1: It was it was a real fun time. But I
Speaker 1: also went to the wrong and it was I went
Speaker 1: to the wrong house. I didn't look at the numbers,
Speaker 1: and I convinced myself, I don't know what it was
Speaker 1: about me, I just because I'm not I don't think
Speaker 1: I'm a very stubborn person. I was just standing outside
Speaker 1: someone else's house, going this is it.
Speaker 2: And not checking the message where she had told you
Speaker 2: what addressed. And then later when I looked at I
Speaker 2: had a message from you going George, I can't get in.
Speaker 2: How do I get in? Like really angrily? You read
Speaker 2: the wrong fu it, house mate, I don't know what
Speaker 2: to tell you.
Speaker 1: Is not moving like maybe I should just check the numbers.
Speaker 1: Real bizarre move. I don't really understand that move still
Speaker 1: to this day came the strange. But also I can't
Speaker 1: say this really quickly. I had a great experience recently
Speaker 1: where I was walking the other day to you know,
Speaker 1: refill so I got my anti anxiety medication, not the
Speaker 1: pro anxiety medication, but the anti anxiety medication. Where I
Speaker 1: was like getting I told I told you recently a
Speaker 1: pet peeve is refilling the script because because it costs
Speaker 1: ninety dollars when you do it, and it was just
Speaker 1: a tally heal thing to get the thing. Anyway, So
Speaker 1: I'm on the way to the chemist and I was
Speaker 1: thinking on the way, how great would it be if
Speaker 1: I could get my six months of medication right then
Speaker 1: and there, like not not have to go every time
Speaker 1: and get my thing. So the the I was going
Speaker 1: to say that the I'm not a dog.
Speaker 2: The did you think you went there?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Maybe the pharmacist looks at me and goes, how annoying.
Speaker 1: Is it? What do you come every every month or whatever?
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I come come once a month and
Speaker 1: everything and he goes, winks at me, gives me six
Speaker 1: months worth? Right then?
Speaker 2: Is that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Is that allowed? I don't know. It was fantastic
Speaker 1: and I got into that and really expensive as well.
Speaker 2: There's a redacted part of this Introy you guys why.
Speaker 1: He gave it all to me? And I was like,
Speaker 1: this is you had no one? But this was like
Speaker 1: this is actually pretty damn cool.
Speaker 2: I feel like there's a reason they Don'tkay, well, that's
Speaker 2: where it was lucky you just went to the Maybe
Speaker 2: that's why, because the VET give you whatever they want.
Speaker 1: That's right. I got my flea medication? Have you? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Once?
Speaker 1: Really what happened? I just got and one of the
Speaker 1: great stories for me to tell you that I want
Speaker 1: to tell you this really quickly. This this episode is
Speaker 1: really really full on. There's a warning in it. Any way.
Speaker 1: I tried to do some fun stuff I've talked about
Speaker 1: talking about lollies and stuff because it's it's called the
Speaker 1: candy Man, and when I was little, I was a huge,
Speaker 1: huge lolly fan.
Speaker 2: I loved eating can Okay, we're just playing a game
Speaker 2: of name things that are obvious, are we what? Every
Speaker 2: kid love Lolli.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not a sweet tooth now, so it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: so take that back.
Speaker 2: I take it back. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: So I love Lolly so much. And there was also
Speaker 1: a point where I loved them when I was a kid.
Speaker 1: And also, like, I go swimming and I was in
Speaker 1: the swim squad and you used to get killer pythons
Speaker 1: and they used to like hand them to you in
Speaker 1: the pool.
Speaker 2: So we should do that as a story.
Speaker 1: That'd be fun. But yeah, so I just eat them
Speaker 1: in the pool and everything and just have like the
Speaker 1: greatst day of weird times in our lives. But I
Speaker 1: used to have it. And I don't know if I've
Speaker 1: talked about this on the podcast before, so please correct
Speaker 1: me if I already have. But I to have ever
Speaker 1: talked you about my dad's book that Okay. So in
Speaker 1: on Philip Island, in the place called New Haven, which
Speaker 1: is like where the high school and primary school. So
Speaker 1: my dad worked at the primary school and up the
Speaker 1: road from the primary school there was just a shop.
Speaker 1: It wasn't an i ga, but it was very much
Speaker 1: like an IgA like a small grocery dependent. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: just had like a wall of Lolly's. And I found
Speaker 1: out once that my dad had this thing called the
Speaker 1: book where it was just a tab where you could
Speaker 1: go and he would just not pay at the time,
Speaker 1: but just write in the book. And he would just write,
Speaker 1: like you know, Harley that day and everything signed it off.
Speaker 1: At the end of the month, they would send out
Speaker 1: a little I've found he had this book then. I
Speaker 1: didn't know so, yeah, it was a tab. I didn't
Speaker 1: know that, Dad, you had to pay for the book.
Speaker 1: You just thought, well lollies, you kid.
Speaker 2: You just thought. You didn't think about the fact that
Speaker 2: one day he would have to pay for it.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that, but I didn't understand what a
Speaker 1: credit card was. Mum had like a car. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was like, what, you.
Speaker 3: Can just get get stuff.
Speaker 2: They send you things if you just ta.
Speaker 1: I didn't teach me lessons.
Speaker 2: I still think of online shopping like that, like this
Speaker 2: is amazing numbers.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense to me. Your friends take
Speaker 1: all my friends and we Adrian and Davin, Zach, we'd
Speaker 1: all go up to the shop and I would say,
Speaker 1: whatever you want. My dad's got a book God, and
Speaker 1: so we would get like Maxi bonds, so you get
Speaker 1: some ice creams, you get like you have a bag
Speaker 1: and you're basically just and you get weighed so like
Speaker 1: the way on the scales and so whatever it was,
Speaker 1: you would and I'll go, it's on me. Anyway. One
Speaker 1: time I was in the shop and there's like, I
Speaker 1: also love it when someone goes and going down the shops.
Speaker 1: I think it's such an Australian thing to say, but
Speaker 1: there's like, so there's four of us kids lined up
Speaker 1: and a man has a basket of groceries and it's
Speaker 1: like milk, bread, whatever. He's got a full basket of
Speaker 1: his groceries. And I said, my friends are with me.
Speaker 1: And then I said to the man, put on the book.
Speaker 1: The man you didn't in the book, and the and
Speaker 1: Graham at the store went, no, Sam, you can't put
Speaker 1: it on the book. That's your dad's book. And he
Speaker 1: pays for it. And then I went, what do you
Speaker 1: mean I found out in that moment. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: dad got the book because I was so nervous to
Speaker 1: tell him, even though my dad has never raised his
Speaker 1: voice in his life, but if it was ever going,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, and yeah, so he showed me and it
Speaker 1: just said in the court of like Zach Tyron Adrian
Speaker 1: had just signed off on their own suites. It was
Speaker 1: so funny. So they had to change the while Graham
Speaker 1: letting you do this. I don't know, it was so funny.
Speaker 1: The other great thing about this shop once that I
Speaker 1: there was a some sort of promotional thing going for
Speaker 1: a while with like pizza shapes, and it was like
Speaker 1: you get a free.
Speaker 2: One Australian.
Speaker 1: Astralian, Yeah, barbecue definitely, but I do wonder if pizza
Speaker 1: shapes are different. Yeah, but yeah, so you would basically
Speaker 1: in that you could win a free pack at And
Speaker 1: what they shop didn't know is that all of them
Speaker 1: were free because they got a bad bunch and every
Speaker 1: single one. So we would go in and get one,
Speaker 1: open it, take it back in, get another one. With
Speaker 1: thirty boxes of pizza, it was a pretty good.
Speaker 2: Day, young boys. You just would have eaten them all
Speaker 2: rather than going, oh, how like we can have.
Speaker 1: These not all at once. But we also had to
Speaker 1: open the bag to get the foil bags. It was
Speaker 1: like you could even save it because it was we
Speaker 1: opened all these bags of pizza, Shank and the Sacon
Speaker 1: our place. It was a great time. That's so good.
Speaker 2: I think that Graham from the shop down the road
Speaker 2: in New Haven needs to have a stain talking allowing
Speaker 2: kids to.
Speaker 1: Put things on the book on the book, I know
Speaker 1: the rules definitely changed after that.
Speaker 2: It's very cute that you tried to get some random
Speaker 2: man's grocery.
Speaker 1: Before we get into this week's episode, I want you
Speaker 1: to tell a little story about recently when we were
Speaker 1: at a night out and you met a very rude
Speaker 1: lady at the night out when you said hello to
Speaker 1: Sam Pang.
Speaker 2: That's right. So we were seeing the comedian Alan Davies,
Speaker 2: a British comedian, and at interval of the show, I
Speaker 2: was lining up for the ladies. I had Padermner and
Speaker 2: Sam Pang, who is a very popular, very beloved TV
Speaker 2: presenter and comedian and radio host in Australia.
Speaker 1: Does it all.
Speaker 2: He does it all. He walked past and I saw
Speaker 2: him and said hello. We've met each other a number
Speaker 2: of times before, so Sam and he went, oh hi,
Speaker 2: how are you? Came up and gave me a hug
Speaker 2: and kept walking. And then the lady in front of
Speaker 2: me in the line for the toilets, goes, mister Pang
Speaker 2: like this, and he turned around to look at her
Speaker 2: with a look on his face as if he were
Speaker 2: going to recognize her, and then realized he didn't, so
Speaker 2: his face changed and he just went hello, you know,
Speaker 2: very politely, He's so lovely. But he was kind of
Speaker 2: looking like, oh that George must be with someone I
Speaker 2: know as well. Oh no she's not. Oh yeah, just
Speaker 2: very polite hello. And then she goes, how's your night,
Speaker 2: and he goes, yeah, good, thanks, and kind of was
Speaker 2: polite and then walking yeah, kept walking. And then this
Speaker 2: lady turned to me with this look of disgust and
Speaker 2: disdain and looked at me, clearly having thought I didn't
Speaker 2: know him. So how he was so friendly and came
Speaker 2: up and gave me a hug. If she called out
Speaker 2: his name, he would do the same to her. When
Speaker 2: then she realized that wasn't the case, she turned to
Speaker 2: me with this look on her face, like turned her
Speaker 2: nose up at me and goes, well, should I know
Speaker 2: who you are?
Speaker 1: Like really angry.
Speaker 2: With me that I knew Sampang. It was so funny
Speaker 2: and so bizarre, and I.
Speaker 1: Think that we're all doing it now.
Speaker 2: Now everyone's look at me? Should I know?
Speaker 1: I know who you are? It's so funny. I love that.
Speaker 2: I like time Sampang. Next time I see you, I
Speaker 2: may not say look. So I'm scared of the ladies
Speaker 2: around me.
Speaker 1: Ladies around me. This week's episode is a very very
Speaker 1: hard listen. But we would like to also say thank
Speaker 1: you for all of your wonderful, wonderful support. We love
Speaker 1: hearing from you. If you want to write in Sami
Speaker 1: at chulsinother coompany dot com dot au, you can leave
Speaker 1: us a voicemail. Links are below in the show notes.
Speaker 1: We'll do that at the end. In the mailbags, you.
Speaker 2: Must leave us a five star review and a five
Speaker 2: star rating. If you didn't like a particular episode, that's
Speaker 2: fine for you to tell us about that, Taylor, if
Speaker 2: you didn't like it's fine for you to tell us
Speaker 2: about that. But dear listeners, if you like the podcast
Speaker 2: but not a particular episode, just tell us and just
Speaker 2: leave us a five star review anyway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, keep it to yourself.
Speaker 2: I just know, always leave a five star reviews I do.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you didn't like it, keep to yourself.
Speaker 1: But we would love you to help us build this podcast.
Speaker 1: We love doing it, so the more you support it,
Speaker 1: the algorithm works like that if you leave more reviews,
Speaker 1: more ratings and pushes it out to more people.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: You would absolutely love that as well.
Speaker 2: And we love you and you can follow us on
Speaker 2: Instagram and TikTok at. Not another crime podcast, that's right?
Speaker 2: And is there anything else that we want them to know?
Speaker 1: I am doing a I'm doing a show a little
Speaker 1: bit trying out new jokes and filming jokes. Are on
Speaker 1: the seventeenth of January at two pm in Melbourne St Kilda.
Speaker 1: So if you want to come along fun, say like that,
Speaker 1: so killder Melbourne? Is that better? Way? Better? Ten dollar
Speaker 1: tickets the Saint Kilda tap House.
Speaker 2: Six.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna be great. It's gonna be so much time.
Speaker 2: You're planning things for the goddamn future.
Speaker 1: Yeah, get your little tikies come along. It's gonna be
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. Come and say hello. I'd love that.
Speaker 2: I don't know anything that I'm doing next to you
Speaker 2: have zero plans?
Speaker 1: Yep, Well you'll be there. Ticket links that is below. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is the week's episode of Real.
Speaker 2: Thank You.
Speaker 1: Wed Like Goodbye Boddy should I know who you are.
Speaker 1: This case is truly disturbing. Before we get into today's episode,
Speaker 1: I'd like to warn listeners with a rather massive, massive warning.
Speaker 1: This case involves the abuse of children, torture, rape, and
Speaker 1: more extremely heavy themes. This is also a brief version
Speaker 1: of the case. There is a lot of further reading
Speaker 1: that I've actually chosen not to talk about here. But
Speaker 1: if anyone wants to read anything further about Dean co
Speaker 1: and that's c o r r l ol r r
Speaker 1: l chral.
Speaker 2: No other vows. There's only one Valain yeh, chorl lor
Speaker 2: sounds a bit like our pigeon.
Speaker 1: Chral. It's how Americans say Carl Chral.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Chral.
Speaker 2: I was just getting confused about what the night it
Speaker 2: really has only got one Valina.
Speaker 1: It's either one, I know, it's one r and two.
Speaker 2: Ls choral coral chral. Yeah, it's like in love. Actually,
Speaker 2: when Laurel is coral coral.
Speaker 1: Let me just double check that's how you spell his
Speaker 1: name there, Dean Chral be very funny. Yeah, Dean Chral
Speaker 1: c o r l ol.
Speaker 2: That's really strange. I feel like that started him out
Speaker 2: poorly in life.
Speaker 1: Absolutely chorl awesome. It's awesome. Today, Syrial is often referred
Speaker 1: to as the candy man or the pied Piper.
Speaker 2: I don't like either of those. I don't like the candyman,
Speaker 2: especially because I really desperately want to sing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Maybe at the end you could sing term sing
Speaker 1: us out if you feel like. The Pied Piper of
Speaker 1: Hamlet is a legendary figure from a German folk tale
Speaker 1: about a piper in colorful clothes who rids the town
Speaker 1: of rats by luring them away with music. But when
Speaker 1: the townsfolk refuse to pay him, he takes revenge by
Speaker 1: charming their children away, leading them in to a mountain
Speaker 1: where they disappear. I'd also like to go into the
Speaker 1: term candy. Candy is an American term. In the UK,
Speaker 1: they're referred to as sloes or confectionery, and in Australia
Speaker 1: we often call them lollies.
Speaker 2: You know that in the UK they call so what
Speaker 2: we call in Australia our term lollies yeap refers to
Speaker 2: like hard boiled sweets, like jelly lollies, like in snakes
Speaker 2: stuff the jelly lollies. In the UK they're called harribo Harrabo,
Speaker 2: which Harabo is a brand, but they just call all
Speaker 2: like jelly sweets, harrabos.
Speaker 1: Oh harrabos, they call it yeah, and they just say
Speaker 1: sweets as well. That's a big thing in the UK
Speaker 1: they say sweets. Lolli's is kind of my favorite australianism.
Speaker 1: I used to be absolutely obsessed with lollies. And here's
Speaker 1: a quick definition I found of lollies. Lollies is the
Speaker 1: common term for what Americans call candy and British people
Speaker 1: call sweets, referring to any sugar based confectionery like chocolates, gummies,
Speaker 1: or hard candies. It's a general term for treats when
Speaker 1: a lolly when a lolly singular is often just one piece,
Speaker 1: though a lollipop sweet on a stick is still called
Speaker 1: a lollipop. The word has been around since the eighteen fifties,
Speaker 1: and in slang, lolly can also mean money or losing
Speaker 1: your temper. Do your lolly, Yeah, it's a British term,
Speaker 1: do your lolly.
Speaker 2: I'm also obsessed with the fact that when we sat
Speaker 2: down to record this, you said, if you need to
Speaker 2: break anytime, let me know, because it's a really long
Speaker 2: episode and you've gone into a deep.
Speaker 1: Deep dove. I looked into the phrase don't take candy
Speaker 1: from strangers. It likely originated from the famous eighteen seventy
Speaker 1: four kidnapping of Charles Charlie Ross, America's first recorded ransom kidnapping,
Speaker 1: Oh My God, with a young boy was lured into
Speaker 1: a carriage by men offering candy and fireworks, Charlie and
Speaker 1: the lollly factor. Charlie the loly factor, that's right, leading
Speaker 1: to his disappearance and creating a powerful cautionary tale that
Speaker 1: became a common saying that is very very relevant here.
Speaker 1: The case captured nation national attention and highlighted the dangers
Speaker 1: of trusting unknown individuals, solidifying the warning in popular culture today.
Speaker 2: You've just realized your iPad was upside down. I've been
Speaker 2: looking at it the whole time.
Speaker 1: It's embarrassed.
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to say anything. I'm glad you noticed.
Speaker 2: So this case was in America in the America's seventies. Yes,
Speaker 2: that's correct in that it's not called the lolly Man.
Speaker 1: That's correct. In nineteen seventy three Houston, Texas, a boy
Speaker 1: by the name of Alma Wayne Lee, who often was
Speaker 1: referred to as just. Wayne led detectives to a series
Speaker 1: of industrial boat storage units and walked to number eleven.
Speaker 1: Detectives removed the padlock with bolt cutters after getting permission
Speaker 1: from the owner of the storage units. There they found
Speaker 1: sacks of lime, a car boxes, water, garbage containers, carpet,
Speaker 1: and a child's yellow bicycle, a bag with children's clothing,
Speaker 1: an unconnected telephone, and lots and lots of bits and pieces.
Speaker 1: Alma Wayne Henley was the first to walk into the shed.
Speaker 1: He took a step inside and his face turned ashen.
Speaker 1: He tried to get himself together. There was something inside
Speaker 1: this shed that they hadn't seen already. Two more detectives
Speaker 1: soon arrived. Detectives at this point had no idea that
Speaker 1: this boy was leading them to the dumping ground of
Speaker 1: one of America's most notorious serial killers, Dean Coral. Digging
Speaker 1: began body after body close to midnight. They discovered a
Speaker 1: mass grave and would soon discover over twenty eight victims.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, so who was Dean Coral? Dean Arnold
Speaker 1: Corral was born on Christmas Eve in nineteen thirty nine
Speaker 1: in Indiana. Just down the road was that avan.
Speaker 2: This story when you were christ was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was the eldest son of Mary Roberson, which
Speaker 1: is Robo. M It's not Robinson.
Speaker 2: So many missing letters in these people's names.
Speaker 1: And Arnold Edwin Corel. His mother was described as very
Speaker 1: loving and very kind to Dean, but the father was
Speaker 1: the distant one in the household. He later went on
Speaker 1: to state that he never even liked children. He was
Speaker 1: incredibly strict with his son, and he wasn't so loving
Speaker 1: or nurturing with either of their children. They later had
Speaker 1: a boy by the name of Stanley. For the smallest infraction,
Speaker 1: Arnold will beat the children, and this drove a huge
Speaker 1: wedge between me and Arnold. They started arguing and finding
Speaker 1: more and more when Mary, you know, just became extremely
Speaker 1: protective of her two sons. Good. The parents ended up
Speaker 1: divorcing after living an extremely fractured and volatile situation, in
Speaker 1: nineteen forty six, when Dean was seven and his younger brother,
Speaker 1: Stanley was only four years old. Now I've also read
Speaker 1: that they divorced in nineteen forty two, but for math's purposes,
Speaker 1: I think nineteen forty six makes more sense to me.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm really good at mass.
Speaker 1: I know you are your to step in. Do any
Speaker 1: of them, I'll call you in quite bad.
Speaker 2: I couldn't even think of the word of quite.
Speaker 1: After divorcing, the family home was sold so the pair
Speaker 1: could properly split and start new lives without each other.
Speaker 1: Mary was extremely happy to be away from her abusive partner, Arnold.
Speaker 1: Mary Stanley and Arlold moved to Memphis, Tennessee. Arnold was
Speaker 1: drafted into the Air Force, and they moved so they
Speaker 1: could stay closer to their father. So decided to be
Speaker 1: stationed there basically so they could still be close to Arnold,
Speaker 1: even though he didn't really like or want children. Mary
Speaker 1: had custody of the kids, but she wanted them to
Speaker 1: have some kind of relationship with Arnold. I don't know why,
Speaker 1: since he always said he didn't like kids, but Mary
Speaker 1: and Arnold did try and reconcile their marriage, but the
Speaker 1: pair rarely got along. Dean was shy, anxious, and quiet
Speaker 1: as a kid. He didn't go out of his way
Speaker 1: to talk to people and didn't enjoy being in the spotlight.
Speaker 1: He was not ever known to socialize with other children
Speaker 1: at all as a child. Who was also known as
Speaker 1: really sensitive who would look at and had empathy for others,
Speaker 1: something that is hard to believe. As we get into
Speaker 1: the story. At the age of seven, Dean contracted rheumatic fever.
Speaker 1: Rheumatic fever known as ARF, is a serious inflammatory illness
Speaker 1: and can develop after an untreated strep, throat or skin infection,
Speaker 1: causing the immune system to mistakenly attack the body, particularly
Speaker 1: the heart, joints, brain, and skin. I got into the
Speaker 1: key symptoms here, but basically, if it's not diagnosed, you
Speaker 1: can have massive, massive repercussions of that. And he ended
Speaker 1: up having a heart murmur for life because he was
Speaker 1: neglected to have this treated, so he didn't find out
Speaker 1: for four years. So we had this for four years.
Speaker 1: So he started treatment when he was eleven years old.
Speaker 1: The way they found out was Dean had now had
Speaker 1: a heart condition and a heart murmur, which was from
Speaker 1: a long time of neglect. Because of this condition, he
Speaker 1: couldn't join in with a lot of activities with the kids,
Speaker 1: especially sports. Well, the rest of the kids were playing
Speaker 1: and having fun, Dean had to watch from the sidelines.
Speaker 1: I watched from the sidelines, but not for the last.
Speaker 2: I choice, my choice, choice, You just did cheerleader.
Speaker 1: Cheer leader.
Speaker 2: I just wanted cheers.
Speaker 1: I just want to cheer. In nineteen fifty Marry and
Speaker 1: Arnold tried to get back together again and moved to California,
Speaker 1: but it only lasted another three years, falling apart again.
Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty three, they divorced again. The divorce was
Speaker 1: amic so that actually remarried, and they remarried each time.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I feel like, if you got divorced once,
Speaker 2: maybe remind yourself of why exactly.
Speaker 1: But they kept trying to get back together, and I
Speaker 1: feel like maybe in that time they would always go
Speaker 1: for the kids.
Speaker 4: Oh of course.
Speaker 2: I mean you say that now as well, And you
Speaker 2: know that can be an admirable thing if you're trying
Speaker 2: to make it work for the kids. If Arnold had,
Speaker 2: you know, changed his ways and become better, it could
Speaker 2: be seen as admirable. But sure, I know, maybe I
Speaker 2: find it even more interesting in those days that because
Speaker 2: I think divorce was a bigger thing in terms of
Speaker 2: it wasn't as common to divorce, but then get actually
Speaker 2: married again.
Speaker 1: The divorce was amicable this time, so the boys were
Speaker 1: able to still have contact with Arnold. Now. The weird
Speaker 1: thing about this is there's not a lot of information
Speaker 1: about Arnold. I don't know what happened to him, but
Speaker 1: I don't think there was a lot of contact. Dean
Speaker 1: certainly didn't have contact with him as he grew older,
Speaker 1: and you don't really hear about Stanley at all. Mary
Speaker 1: moved the boys then to vid Or, Texas vid vital
Speaker 1: v I d O R A minu.
Speaker 2: At least there's two vows.
Speaker 1: You're happy with that one, remember with that one, except
Speaker 1: please proceed with caution anytime like I does, anytime I'd
Speaker 1: like to be driving. She was teaching me how to
Speaker 1: drive and to go proceed caution, Texas, where she met
Speaker 1: a traveling clock salesman by the name of James West.
Speaker 2: This is all something Jake West, traveling clock salesman. It
Speaker 2: feels very willy wonka, it does.
Speaker 1: It's a very very different time. It feels unreal, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: They married soon after and had a baby girl by
Speaker 1: the name of Joyce. Mary and Jake, the X clock salesman,
Speaker 1: decided to venture out with their own business, p com Prince,
Speaker 1: a candy making company.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: Dean and his brother Stanley would operate the machinery and
Speaker 1: help make candy.
Speaker 2: Oh, this feels like yucky foreshadowing foreshadowing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in high school, Dean's only interest that I could
Speaker 1: find was the brass band. He played in instrument?
Speaker 2: Did he play?
Speaker 1: Oh, come on, he plays in brass? Was it a.
Speaker 2: Brass band you were?
Speaker 1: What did you play?
Speaker 2: Well? I started out playing the euphonium, which is like
Speaker 2: a smaller tuber and if this is this sums me
Speaker 2: up better than anything else. So when I started at
Speaker 2: a new school in grade five, I'd gone to like
Speaker 2: a public primary school, and then in grade five I
Speaker 2: went to a private school and they had a music
Speaker 2: school as part of it. So when I was doing
Speaker 2: the tour on the first day, I was like, what
Speaker 2: do you mean a music school and they said, well,
Speaker 2: you can choose an instrument like any of the instruments
Speaker 2: we've got, and you can learn instrum. And I was
Speaker 2: like what, And I said, in grade five, is there
Speaker 2: any is there any instrument that no one in the school? Yeah,
Speaker 2: from prep to your twelve play and the music teacher said, yes,
Speaker 2: the euphonium, And I said, I'll do that one like that,
Speaker 2: but that's not a brass Like it's a brass instrument,
Speaker 2: but it's not a very brass band. Instrument that one
Speaker 2: I played in this symphony orchestra, the school's symphony orchestra,
Speaker 2: not like the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra. But then I decided
Speaker 2: in grade ten the euphonium wasn't cool, so I upgraded
Speaker 2: to the traumbone.
Speaker 1: Oh, very very.
Speaker 2: Cool, and that's what I played in the brass band. Continue,
Speaker 2: please with caution.
Speaker 1: Proceed with cautioned. He never socialized as he grew older,
Speaker 1: but he maintained really good grades. He continued to make
Speaker 1: no friends and was always a bit of a loner,
Speaker 1: spending his time helping his mum and stepfather with their
Speaker 1: candy store.
Speaker 2: He must have played the euphonium if I reckon.
Speaker 1: After his graduation, his family moved to Houston, Texas. They
Speaker 1: moved their candy operations into a new shop. His stepdad
Speaker 1: would go out selling the money, changing from clocks to candy,
Speaker 1: and his mum would make the candy in the store,
Speaker 1: selling the money.
Speaker 2: You said he'd go selling the money.
Speaker 1: Changing from clocks to candy. Yeah, I don't say selling
Speaker 1: the money. I did, yeah, candy, selling the making the money.
Speaker 2: I got it.
Speaker 1: A couple of years out of high school, Dean moved
Speaker 1: to Indiana, to live with his grandmother.
Speaker 2: Gosh, there's a lot of movement, a movement by this age.
Speaker 1: He stayed there for around two years. He met a
Speaker 1: girl and soon they were in a relationship. It fell
Speaker 1: apart pretty quickly and she asked him to marry her,
Speaker 1: but he said no. Oh oh wow, he said no.
Speaker 1: He ended up moving back to Houston after a couple
Speaker 1: of years. He started helping with the family candy business
Speaker 1: and took it a bit more seriously in nineteen sixty two,
Speaker 1: seeing this as a career pathway. He lived with them
Speaker 1: briefly and then ended up living with his mum and
Speaker 1: stepdad Jake, and then ended up renting his own apartment
Speaker 1: above the candy shop. His stepfather, Jake at one point
Speaker 1: noticed some things about Dean and took Mary aside to
Speaker 1: tell her that he suspected Dean was gay. She got
Speaker 1: offended and insisted he wasn't. Mary was extremely homophobic and
Speaker 1: thought that gay people were disgusting. There was her words, disgusting.
Speaker 2: You know who's disgusting, Mary, Mary, Yeah, Robertson, Mary Roberson,
Speaker 2: get an inn in your name. For once.
Speaker 1: She thought of her son as loyal, obedient, helpful, loving
Speaker 1: and a good and normal. Boy. That's how she is.
Speaker 2: He's all of those things, those things. Knowing this from
Speaker 2: the intro, I don't think he is those things.
Speaker 1: But that's not no, no, no, I think we're describing a
Speaker 1: gay person.
Speaker 2: Yes, no, that's I was like, yeah, yes he was.
Speaker 2: They did do with that, But then I remembered we're
Speaker 2: talking about a serial mener.
Speaker 1: Knowing this about his mum, Dean never felt comfortable enough
Speaker 1: to talk about his sexuality with his mum or his stepfather.
Speaker 1: It's unclear really what this relationship was with his biological father,
Speaker 1: Arnold as well, But at this point all we really know,
Speaker 1: and I don't. I don't really think there was a
Speaker 1: relationship salvaged there at all. In nineteen sixty three, his
Speaker 1: mother divorced her husband and then opened up her own
Speaker 1: care business, the Coral Candy Company, and made Dean the
Speaker 1: vice president. Now it was a store. I found it
Speaker 1: very funny that he was a vice president still just
Speaker 1: for a store. And also at this time I did
Speaker 1: read something that was like they were still living together
Speaker 1: at the time she started the store. So there was
Speaker 1: two candy companies running out.
Speaker 3: Of the same place.
Speaker 1: Oh dear, okay, yeap Not long into the business, a
Speaker 1: teen male employee came forward and accused Dean of trying
Speaker 1: to proposition him. Nothing happened, The young boy was just fired.
Speaker 3: Sorry, so he was to have a conversation.
Speaker 1: They said, no, you know, oh God, and no one
Speaker 1: took the time to investigate and.
Speaker 2: Howld was Dean now like twenties.
Speaker 1: Twenties Yeah, Mary did not believe that her son would
Speaker 1: do something like that. Dean was drafted into the US
Speaker 1: Army in August nineteen sixty four. US operations in Vietnam
Speaker 1: were expanding at the time, and Dean was sent to
Speaker 1: Louisiana for basic training, then on to Georgia. Hey that's
Speaker 1: my name, it's your name, and then a permanent assignment
Speaker 1: in Texas. He worked as a radio repairman. During this time.
Speaker 1: He absolutely hated military training and applied for a hardship discharge,
Speaker 1: using the excuse that he had to be home with
Speaker 1: his family to run the family business vice president. Of course,
Speaker 1: of course, he was only in there for about ten
Speaker 1: months and got out in nineteen sixty five.
Speaker 2: Well that's a long time to be doing something, you really.
Speaker 1: Have Absolutely during this time in the army, Dean first
Speaker 1: realized that he was homosexual. He actually told people in
Speaker 1: the army that he thought that he was. He got
Speaker 1: out of the army and resumed his position as vice president.
Speaker 1: As vice president at the Coral Candy Company, the main
Speaker 1: competition at this point was Dean's stepdad, Jake's candy.
Speaker 2: Business That's so Weird.
Speaker 1: So Weird. Dean was working crazy hours at this point,
Speaker 1: and they were trying hard to make it work and
Speaker 1: meet the supplier and demand the supply and demand of
Speaker 1: the local huston. Late in nineteen sixty five, the family
Speaker 1: business moved the location of the company across the road
Speaker 1: from Helms Elementary School. A lot of the kids would
Speaker 1: obviously stop by the store, and Dean would hand out
Speaker 1: a lot of free sweets to the kids, luring them
Speaker 1: into the shop to entice them to buy more. This
Speaker 1: is where he started to earn the nickname the candy Man.
Speaker 1: Never say it three times. Some people started calling Dean
Speaker 1: the Pied Piper. He was giving out free candy to
Speaker 1: local children and luring them away from their school. While
Speaker 1: all of this seemed innocent on the outside, there was
Speaker 1: a very dark part of Dean's mind that was brewing away.
Speaker 1: He favored teen boys, and there happened to be quite
Speaker 1: a few now working for the candy company. Many of
Speaker 1: the boys found him to be incredibly creepy. Nobody did
Speaker 1: anything about his behavior time and time again. He was
Speaker 1: also known to bury defective candy at night outside side,
Speaker 1: not in the bins. He bury it. He'd actually dig
Speaker 1: up and bury candy.
Speaker 2: That's so weird. Also, what is defective candy?
Speaker 1: Well, I guess candy that doesn't look perfect guessing. But
Speaker 1: some have speculated that his killings could have become a
Speaker 1: lot earlier.
Speaker 2: Because of digging up thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, So he said he was just bearing
Speaker 1: candy out at night, so he had an excuse. But
Speaker 1: people have since said, there's his victim count was actually
Speaker 1: a lot higher Jesus, and he started a lot earlier.
Speaker 2: Like there's nothing funny about this, But for want of
Speaker 2: a better term, it is a bit funny to me
Speaker 2: to think that he said, oh, there's candy that that
Speaker 2: can't be sold, so I've just been burying in my
Speaker 2: garden and the people go, okay.
Speaker 1: Yes, also going I could have it look Dean cleared
Speaker 1: out of back room of the store and installed a
Speaker 1: pool table so boys would want to come and hang
Speaker 1: out with him. What sad This is when he made
Speaker 1: friends with a twelve year old boy and a very
Speaker 1: important person in this case, a boy by the name
Speaker 1: of David Brooks. He was one of the kids who
Speaker 1: would show up, get free candy and play Paul. He
Speaker 1: would give that he would give more free candy to
Speaker 1: the boys around around the neighborhood and bring them into
Speaker 1: the store. This would become a very important hangout spot,
Speaker 1: free candy and Paul for everyone who wanted to come in.
Speaker 1: This is exactly what Dean wanted. David said at the
Speaker 1: time that Dean was the only person who didn't make
Speaker 1: fun of his glasses, and that's sad. He had big
Speaker 1: glasses and Dean with young didn't make fun of him.
Speaker 1: He had a friend in Dean, and he treated him well.
Speaker 1: David Brooks started to see Dean as somewhat of a
Speaker 1: surrogate dad. Dean would give him money and take him
Speaker 1: everywhere with him. David would come home or David came
Speaker 1: from a home sorry where his parents weren't together and
Speaker 1: seemed like he was seeking some kind of big brother,
Speaker 1: big sister vibe. David saw the factory as his second home.
Speaker 1: Anytime he needed money, he would walk over and get
Speaker 1: some from Dean. So Dean would just give him money
Speaker 1: anytime we want it. Dean would take some of the
Speaker 1: boys on trips. He'd take them to the beach all
Speaker 1: the time, and it didn't seem to raise any suspicion
Speaker 1: at the time. Dean was a big, friendly, kookie Willy
Speaker 1: Wonka type figure who seemed to be kind of a
Speaker 1: big kid himself. Often Dean would ride his motorcycle with
Speaker 1: David on the back, and would even let David drive
Speaker 1: it when they were alone together. In nineteen sixty six,
Speaker 1: Mary got married a third time. The name was suppressed,
Speaker 1: so I'll call him Merchant Seamen because that was his job.
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, why was the name suppressed.
Speaker 1: I don't know him. He was quite a violent and
Speaker 1: awful person, so I think let's protect his Merchant Seamen.
Speaker 1: I don't know why. They met on some kind of
Speaker 1: matchmaking service back then. Don't know what it was, but
Speaker 1: some sort of you know. Sixty eight they met on
Speaker 1: some kind of matchmaking service and rushed to get married.
Speaker 1: Mary was at the time fifty years old. On their honeymoon,
Speaker 1: Mary was shocked to see how violent and angry. Her
Speaker 1: new husband was at a taxi driver what's her husband's.
Speaker 2: Name, Merchant Seamen wrecked.
Speaker 1: He bragged how crewmen would actually walk off his ship
Speaker 1: if they found out he was working. Oh my god, awful.
Speaker 1: He was not a nice man. Merchant's ex wife actually
Speaker 1: took her own life, but Mary was suspicious about this
Speaker 1: when he told her about it, Oh my god, she
Speaker 1: went to see the coroner's report to actually see how
Speaker 1: she died.
Speaker 2: Oh dear.
Speaker 1: Soon after, they annulled the marriage. A few weeks later,
Speaker 1: they remarried and moved in together.
Speaker 2: Stopped doing this Mary.
Speaker 1: He was an extremely jealous person. Went offshore. He phoned Mary,
Speaker 1: but if she didn't pick up, he would fly straight
Speaker 1: back to Houston to see if she'd fallen.
Speaker 2: In love with another man Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: One time, he pretended he was away and staked outside
Speaker 1: her house for two nights to keep an eye on her.
Speaker 1: Oh gross. Merchant Seamen never liked Dean, much like Mary's
Speaker 1: ex husband, Jake West. The friction between Merchant and Dean
Speaker 1: grew and grew that were not involved in each other's
Speaker 1: lives at all. Mary and Merchant would continually fight, break up,
Speaker 1: and then move back in together. One time, he bought
Speaker 1: her the most beautiful flowers and told her that if
Speaker 1: she died, he would throw the most beautiful funeral for her.
Speaker 1: That is so fucked up, especially if he killed her.
Speaker 1: He said that, Yep, it's lovely.
Speaker 2: She says. Not many good people in this story so far.
Speaker 1: Merchant would also openly cheat on Mary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we no shit. The jealous ones was due.
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty seven, Dean was still handing out candy
Speaker 1: to all the kids, and the relationship between him and
Speaker 1: David Brooks was growing. More trips to the beach, more
Speaker 1: riding on his motorcycle. The Coral Family Candy Company closed
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty eight. Dean's mother couldn't run the store anymore.
Speaker 1: It just wasn't making any money.
Speaker 2: Because the VP was giving away everything and then burying
Speaker 2: the rest of it.
Speaker 1: Is he we don't know. And of course, Merchant and
Speaker 1: Mary began threatening to have each other committed to a
Speaker 1: psychiatric facility. A Merchant was actually committed. He was, of
Speaker 1: course relationship in this relationship. I think he was released
Speaker 1: after being under surveillance for twenty four hours. He then
Speaker 1: went on to threaten Mary to commit her that he
Speaker 1: was going to commit her permanently and that he would
Speaker 1: pay to do so, making sure that she would undergo
Speaker 1: intense shock therapy. Mary was terrified and slept in her
Speaker 1: office for six weeks and ended up getting a restraining
Speaker 1: order against Merchant, but he didn't listen. Merchant would continually
Speaker 1: break into the factory and make threats, calling Dean a
Speaker 1: derogatory name for homosexual. Mary encouraged Dean to go out
Speaker 1: and kill Merchants when he.
Speaker 2: Was as family man.
Speaker 1: Dean instead gave her some bricks to throw at him
Speaker 1: out the window, and she did.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Mary later said about Dean, so how could people say
Speaker 1: now that Dean is a murderer. Why if Dean was
Speaker 1: ever going to be a problem to anyone, it would
Speaker 1: have been a merchant.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, So yeah, no, that totally checks out. I
Speaker 2: asked him to anyone. If it was going to kill anyone,
Speaker 2: it would have been my ex husband. But he didn't
Speaker 2: do that. So all of these bodies that have been
Speaker 2: found that are linked to definitely can't be him. I
Speaker 2: don't like Mary, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Mary was, of course, completely blind to what Dean was
Speaker 1: actually doing. Mary eventually divorced merchant seamen. She and her
Speaker 1: thirteen year old Joyce ended up moving away, while Dean
Speaker 1: decided to stay in Houston, Texas. This would be the
Speaker 1: last time he would ever see his mother, but continued
Speaker 1: talking to her over the phone. By night he would
Speaker 1: make candy to keep up with a few orders they
Speaker 1: still had.
Speaker 2: Wasn't the business dead?
Speaker 1: The business was dead, but there was a couple of orders,
Speaker 1: and he did that for a little bit of time
Speaker 1: right then, He.
Speaker 2: Just maybe the business was kind of still going, but
Speaker 2: the shop was at.
Speaker 1: Shop, wasn't Yeah. Mary Robertson eventually set up a new
Speaker 1: candy factory in a new hometown. Oh my god, Oh
Speaker 1: while just even how many, how many different companies they
Speaker 1: had in this short amount of time.
Speaker 2: And moving a lot for them actually in those days
Speaker 2: as well, I know it was in the earlier days,
Speaker 2: moving across the country so often, like so many times,
Speaker 2: as I know, it was like that was more rare
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, But with no job and no finances, Dean got
Speaker 1: a job as an electrician at the Houston Lighting and
Speaker 1: Power Company. He'd experienced. He had experience in the Armies.
Speaker 1: In the Armies. Experience in the Army, not all of
Speaker 1: the Armies. He stayed in his apartment above the candy
Speaker 1: store and ended up meeting a single mother named Betty Hawkins.
Speaker 2: He was such a sixties.
Speaker 1: He also formed a much closer relationship now with David Brooks.
Speaker 1: With his mother out of town, he was able to
Speaker 1: meet people his own age as well, so that he
Speaker 1: was sexually attracted to and without having to keep up
Speaker 1: the facade of being an innocent and good candy maker.
Speaker 1: More people found him creepy and quick to completely change
Speaker 1: his demeanor.
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm sorry, So what was the relationship with Betty Hawkins?
Speaker 2: So there was his girlfriend, but while he was with
Speaker 2: the girlfriend, he found it was easier.
Speaker 3: To so it was a lot more than him. Yes, yep,
Speaker 3: did she know that?
Speaker 1: No, she was unaware of all this. When David was
Speaker 1: fifteen years old, he dropped out of his David Brooks sorry,
Speaker 1: he dropped out of high school and went to live
Speaker 1: with his mother. So she and her husband split. She
Speaker 1: moved away, I think to a place called Boumont or
Speaker 1: something still in Texas. And then he would go back
Speaker 1: and forth from his dad and his mum. Okay, anytime
Speaker 1: he would come back to visit his dad in Houston,
Speaker 1: he would visit Dean at his apartment. Dean would bring
Speaker 1: David on his dates with his girlfriend Oh and told
Speaker 1: him that he ever needed a place to stay, that
Speaker 1: he could just stay with him. One time, when David
Speaker 1: was staying with Dean, Dean started urging him to experiment
Speaker 1: with his sexuality. It didn't take long to convince him.
Speaker 1: Dean paid him some money to let Dean perform for
Speaker 1: Latio on it and.
Speaker 2: It was like fifteen, yeah.
Speaker 1: I think thirteen actually yeah what Yeah. On September twenty fifth,
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, Jeffrey Conan had been hitchhiking with a friend
Speaker 1: of his. The driver dropped them off in Houston. This
Speaker 1: was the last time he was ever seen alive. Dean
Speaker 1: lived in his apartment and likely spotted him offering him
Speaker 1: a ride to his parents' house. So he was kind
Speaker 1: of I think on it like an intersection sort of place.
Speaker 2: And he saw he could see so it just saw
Speaker 2: someone being dropped off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to get Jeffrey. Jeffrey was I think Jeffrey was
Speaker 1: eighteen years old on September twenty fifth, Sorry, I won't
Speaker 1: do that again. Him then bound and gagged Jeffrey before
Speaker 1: taking him to an undisclosed location to rape him.
Speaker 2: Oh God, Saman, when you I thought you were going
Speaker 2: to say, like, they don't know what happened, though it
Speaker 2: was never seen again, and we don't really know what happened.
Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting details.
Speaker 1: When he was through, he placed his hands around Jeffrey's
Speaker 1: neck and manually strangled him.
Speaker 2: So this seemingly has come out of nowhere. Well, we
Speaker 2: don't really know, but this is the first victims.
Speaker 1: It's known. Yes, he wrapped Jeffrey's body in plastic sheets,
Speaker 1: drove him out to a beach, and buried him in
Speaker 1: a shallow grave. Before he buried him, he dumped limes
Speaker 1: in with him to try and hide the smell.
Speaker 2: Ah, okay, I was wondering, why Lyne, he's a bag
Speaker 2: of limes?
Speaker 1: At the start, it got worse and worse. One night,
Speaker 1: when David Brooks was stopping by Dean's apartment, he heard
Speaker 1: strange noises coming from inside. When he walked in the door,
Speaker 1: he spotted Dean assaulting two boys strapped to his bed.
Speaker 1: Dean jumped up and said, I'm just having some fun.
Speaker 1: Dean had made a device himself to trapped them there.
Speaker 1: Known later as the torture board.
Speaker 2: Oh Jesus.
Speaker 1: It was a slab of plywood that he drilled holes
Speaker 1: into so he could tie them there. He used this
Speaker 1: device in almost all of his murders and rapes. He
Speaker 1: would tie them up, sometimes leaving them there for days
Speaker 1: at a time. He would always gag them so they
Speaker 1: wouldn't be heard in his apartment. David Brooks later said,
Speaker 1: once they were on the board, they were as good
Speaker 1: as dead. It was all over, but the shouting and crying.
Speaker 2: Oh so David wooked in on him with two victims
Speaker 2: once yes, and seemingly said nothing at the time to
Speaker 2: anyone else.
Speaker 1: And it gets worse. I don't want it to David
Speaker 1: wasn't sure if he was disgusted or intrigued. Dean ran
Speaker 1: over to David and bribed him with a car in
Speaker 1: exchange for silence about what he saw. Oh God, David agreed.
Speaker 1: Soon after, Dean brought David a green Chevy Corvette and
Speaker 1: told him that he ended up killing the boys that night.
Speaker 2: Oh but here's a car, so a car, get.
Speaker 1: Over it well. Dean then promised David two hundred dollars
Speaker 1: for every boy he could bring to him. David immediately
Speaker 1: got to work.
Speaker 2: Oh No.
Speaker 1: On December fifteenth, nineteen seventy, David lured two fourteen year
Speaker 1: old boys, James Glass and Danny Yates, to the apartment.
Speaker 1: He promised it was just to hang out and have
Speaker 1: a few beers. Both fourteen year old boys were tied
Speaker 1: to the bed and the same thing happened again, raped, strangled,
Speaker 1: and then taken to the place where we were burying
Speaker 1: most of his bodies, a boat shed the he had
Speaker 1: hired exactly for that purpose. He then waited for six
Speaker 1: weeks to attack again. The age range of boys was
Speaker 1: thirteen to twenty years old. He had a very specific target.
Speaker 1: All these victims would come from the town that Dean
Speaker 1: lived in, Houston Heights. It was a low socioeconomic neighborhood.
Speaker 1: Dean liked to get his victims into his car by
Speaker 1: telling them that there was a party. He would also
Speaker 1: get them into his car by telling them that he
Speaker 1: would give them a lift home or take them wherever
Speaker 1: they needed to go. He would pump the kids full
Speaker 1: of drugs and alcohol, or play a game with them
Speaker 1: involving handcuffs designed to get these in place so that
Speaker 1: they were restricted. Other times, he would forcibly put handcuffs
Speaker 1: on them. He would then tie them to his bed
Speaker 1: or tortureboard, and that he hung up on the wall.
Speaker 1: He would violate his victims and then he would strangle
Speaker 1: them or shoot them with his twenty two caliber. He
Speaker 1: put a lot of these bodies in plastic sheets and
Speaker 1: place them in the rented boat shed or bury them
Speaker 1: on the beach. He would also get his victims to
Speaker 1: call or write to their parents to let them know
Speaker 1: that they were Okay, Oh, that's.
Speaker 2: So like that. Obviously all of this is messed up,
Speaker 2: but that is just next.
Speaker 1: That's what Dad and Catherine Bernie. Yeah, remember, just so
Speaker 1: nobody would be getting suspicious knowing that he would then
Speaker 1: he would kill them. Like a lot of serial killers.
Speaker 1: He would collect trophies, often the keys from the victims,
Speaker 1: so the set of keys for the house. Now, of course,
Speaker 1: if a man was pulling up to you in his
Speaker 1: van offering you candy, you would run away screaming stranger, danger.
Speaker 1: But because of another kid kind of their age, David Brooks,
Speaker 1: he was able to gain their trust. On January thirty,
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, Dean and David spotted two boys fifteen
Speaker 1: year old Donnie and thirteen year old Jerry Waldrop walking
Speaker 1: from church.
Speaker 3: To the Bawling Alley Brothers.
Speaker 1: Brothers. They promised the two boys weed and beer if
Speaker 1: they got into the van. It was a white van,
Speaker 1: later known as a torture van. It's not very creative
Speaker 1: in all of this, like the boards called the torture board,
Speaker 1: the van's called the departments called the torture apartment, but
Speaker 1: it seemed to be where he would pick up Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: So it's not clear if the torture van was actually
Speaker 1: used to torture and kill victims, but to the yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right, but he definitely transported them in this car.
Speaker 1: David Brooks later said that Dean did go out to
Speaker 1: California quite a bit, but no one really knows what
Speaker 1: he was doing out there, so it's likely he might
Speaker 1: have picked up even more boys and tortured them in
Speaker 1: that van. This would mean that the number of boys
Speaker 1: would be even higher than what we know already. Dean
Speaker 1: drove the boys back to his new spot, a new
Speaker 1: apartment place one apartment where he raped, tortured, and strangled
Speaker 1: both boys to death. This time David watched in the
Speaker 1: corner and then David helped transport the bodies into the
Speaker 1: van and then into the boat shed where they were buried.
Speaker 2: So this is the first time we know that he's
Speaker 2: actually been here.
Speaker 1: So he has watched before, but yeah, this is the
Speaker 1: first time that he was actually involved that we know of.
Speaker 1: Even though the home was very close to where the
Speaker 1: last two boys have been abducted, the police still didn't investigate. What. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the boy's father, Everett filed two missing person reports for
Speaker 1: both of his sons. At the time, there were no
Speaker 1: missing There was not a missing person's unit in the
Speaker 1: Houston Police Department, so the paperwork was buried. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So it was just part of normal everyday police work,
Speaker 2: is that if there was someone reported missing, just any
Speaker 2: cop on the beat, if they had time to get
Speaker 2: around to it, would look into it.
Speaker 1: I'll put on the Everett showed up to the police
Speaker 1: station every day for eight months straight, desperately urging the
Speaker 1: police to do something about his missing sons. He told
Speaker 1: the Houston Chronicle, I was there about as much as
Speaker 1: the chief was. The police continually asked him why he
Speaker 1: was there, that his two boys would just runaways. Everett
Speaker 1: even told the police that a man by the name
Speaker 1: of Dean Coral was bearing bodies at a boat shed.
Speaker 1: What police didn't seem to believe it. It was just
Speaker 1: a rumor and that all of these boys were runaways.
Speaker 2: Had they looked into this quote unquote.
Speaker 1: They had once gone there that I think I go into.
Speaker 1: But they didn't find anything, and it was just just asked,
Speaker 1: just asked him and looked outside the boat shed. Oh sorry.
Speaker 1: Police did conduct a search around the boat shed but
Speaker 1: found it was all a hoax. We don't really know
Speaker 1: what happened now. Dean soon realized he wasn't going to
Speaker 1: get caught. David did begin to have a guilty conscience.
Speaker 1: I was too scared to do anything about it. I'm
Speaker 1: he's very young.
Speaker 2: He's obviously been groomed. I'm not putting that aside at all. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it is also incredibly hard to uh not be
Speaker 2: angry at someone else being involved and not doing anything
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Also, if you're watching the YouTube right now, I've got
Speaker 1: the itchiest nose.
Speaker 2: And I have a on a cat. I have a
Speaker 2: T shirt with a cat.
Speaker 1: You've got a beautiful cat top one. David did begin
Speaker 1: to have a guilty conscience. Like I said, was too
Speaker 1: scared to do anything about it. Plus he was earning
Speaker 1: money and saw Dean as a father figure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been incredibly groomed, but yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: On March ninth, nineteen seventy one, Dean and David drove
Speaker 1: around looking for their next victim. Randal Harvey was returning
Speaker 1: from his job at a gas station and was never
Speaker 1: seen again. David actually knew Randall and called out to
Speaker 1: him to give him a lift home. The same thing
Speaker 1: has happened before, but instead of strangling Randall, it turned
Speaker 1: out that he shot him in the head and buried
Speaker 1: him in the boat shed. He wasn't identified until two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, what thirty seven years later that he
Speaker 1: was actually a victim of the candy Man.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't be too long before they were searching for their
Speaker 1: next victim. On May twenty ninth, fourteen year old David
Speaker 1: Hiltergeist and oh Hiller guys sorry, and sixteen year old
Speaker 1: Mally Winkle Malley used to work at the candy shop.
Speaker 2: Malley Winkle who worked at a candy shop. Shut up.
Speaker 2: That is a cartoon character, and I will not let
Speaker 2: you tell me anything bad happened to him.
Speaker 1: David Hilleguys had visited at the candy shop as well,
Speaker 1: and spent so long there once that his mother had
Speaker 1: to actually go and collect him. Both boys were brought
Speaker 1: back to Dean's apartment and the exact same thing laid
Speaker 1: out as before wicker Back. After the murders, officers heard
Speaker 1: that Mally had made a phone call to his mother,
Speaker 1: Selma just before he was taken, saying that he was
Speaker 1: out swimming with his friends.
Speaker 2: No and his mom's men was Selmi can't with this story.
Speaker 1: He was last seen getting into a white fan. Police
Speaker 1: again thought the boys were runaways, but their parents insisted
Speaker 1: that the police search for them and do their job.
Speaker 1: They knew that their children would not just run off
Speaker 1: without saying anything. They went searching themselves and printed off
Speaker 1: posters and a one thousand dollar reward for any information.
Speaker 2: So there's like we're talking kind of a dozen ish
Speaker 2: by my just memory calculations here, boys around the same
Speaker 2: age who've gone missing in the same the same neighborhood,
Speaker 2: not in just the same state, and the police just
Speaker 2: keep saying every single one of them is a runaway
Speaker 2: and will not look into it anymore. Yeah, Oh my god,
Speaker 2: I'm so angry.
Speaker 1: So angry, and imagine these parents, like they're coming to
Speaker 1: the police station every day. Go please look, please look,
Speaker 1: Oh God. There's also rumors about dank coral at the time.
Speaker 1: They then took out a loan to hire a private investigator,
Speaker 1: he believed, and also saying before this is a low
Speaker 1: socioeconomic so they're taking it a loan and offering up
Speaker 1: one thousand dollars of their own money. In the seventies,
Speaker 1: he believed that their boys can be taken by a
Speaker 1: man by the name of Chicken Joe. Isn't it crazy,
Speaker 1: Chicken Joe.
Speaker 2: Chicken Chicken Joe is like he was a guy they.
Speaker 1: Called cold Chicken Joe, that Chicken Joe who provided male
Speaker 1: sex workers to clients, and their son might have been
Speaker 1: sold to a sex trafficking ring. The boys' parents ended
Speaker 1: up driving out to the Montrose area and parked outside
Speaker 1: a gay bar called the Silver Dollar Saloon. They watched
Speaker 1: the door all night, hoping to see their son being
Speaker 1: taken in and out in or out. Yeah, but Chicken Joe,
Speaker 1: I don't know about.
Speaker 2: That Chicken Jo.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know about that Chicken Joe. Did you look
Speaker 2: into him and that.
Speaker 1: What's your I think you just loved eat that chop?
Speaker 1: You love that chick, love that fried chok. What do
Speaker 1: you think?
Speaker 2: I think that he was a big old woose.
Speaker 1: Oh big chicken, big chip big. Let's look it up
Speaker 1: and we'll do it. In the show notes, I can
Speaker 1: find anything.
Speaker 3: Yep, chicken chicken Joe had that chicken Joe.
Speaker 1: Their parents called the police station every day, even telling
Speaker 1: the police about specific details that they should be looking into. Dorothy,
Speaker 1: one of the boys mothers, even took down a license
Speaker 1: plate t m F seven to four that had been
Speaker 1: spotted with a mysterious man sitting in the driver's signe.
Speaker 2: The parents are out doing, they're doing the detective.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. A fifteen year old neighborhood boy, Alma Wayne
Speaker 1: Henley Junior remember this name name yeap called by the
Speaker 1: Hiller guysed house to ask about David, who had gone missing.
Speaker 1: He was a good friend of David's and only lived
Speaker 1: a block away.
Speaker 2: Alma was friends of David Hiller geist yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. He got some posters from his mum to
Speaker 1: hang out around town. Alma was supposed to be a victim,
Speaker 1: but Dean thought that Alma could be another person like
Speaker 1: David Brooks who would lure kids in for him. He
Speaker 1: offered him the same deal, two hundred dollars for any
Speaker 1: boy that was brought to him.
Speaker 2: And how did he come into contact with Dean?
Speaker 1: So he was friends with David Brooks as well.
Speaker 2: And David Hiller Geist Yes, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: A lot of the parents who met Dean thought he
Speaker 1: was a lovely, pleasant man. He knew how to disguise himself.
Speaker 1: When he went over to Alma's house. His mother invited
Speaker 1: him in for an Eastern lunch.
Speaker 3: Why did he go over to his house?
Speaker 1: Well, he went to fix his car, so I went
Speaker 1: to fix it. Yeah, the mum's car. Even Dean's girlfriend, Betty,
Speaker 1: who he'd been dating for three years, didn't know the
Speaker 1: real Dean.
Speaker 2: Like hope, no if she was still dating him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, exactly. She claimed that he was never
Speaker 1: sexually aggressive with her. The only thing she noticed out
Speaker 1: of the ordinary was once when they were having sex,
Speaker 1: he stopped because he wasn't feeling into it. To her,
Speaker 1: he was an upstanding citizen who she was intent on
Speaker 1: settling down with. She even ignored that he brought the
Speaker 1: two boys David and Alma with him on some of
Speaker 1: their dates.
Speaker 3: So creepy, Alma.
Speaker 1: Hadn't seen the real Dean by this point, only David Brooks.
Speaker 1: Dean promised Alma that if he brought boys to him
Speaker 1: that he could help him help his family with some money.
Speaker 1: He explained that he sold the boys to an underground
Speaker 1: sex trafficking ring.
Speaker 2: Sorry, who did he explain that to Alma, and Alma
Speaker 2: was like, okay, cool.
Speaker 1: Okay cool. The sex trafficking ring has been something that
Speaker 1: has come up quite a lot in researching this cave.
Speaker 1: Dean's monstrous hirade came to an end in nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 1: I found the following information about the sex trafficking of boys.
Speaker 1: In February nineteen seventy five, during a routine inquiry, the
Speaker 1: Houston Police Department uncovered an extensive collection of illegal photographs
Speaker 1: and films depicting underage boys, some as young as eight,
Speaker 1: many of whom were from the Houston Heights area where
Speaker 1: Dean Coral resided. Sixteen individuals were identifiable in the material.
Speaker 1: Eleven appeared to match victims already attributed to Dean at
Speaker 1: the time. The remaining individuals had been miners when the
Speaker 1: images were created, but were adult by the time authorities
Speaker 1: discovered the material and interviewed them, indicating that the collection
Speaker 1: had been assembled over a prolonged period. The discovery raised
Speaker 1: troubling questions about Dean's claim to both Henley and Brooks
Speaker 1: that he was connected to a Dallas based group that
Speaker 1: trafficked boys. In the art math of the Houston discovery,
Speaker 1: five individuals were arrested in Santa Clara, California, including a
Speaker 1: man by the name of Roy Ames, the owner of
Speaker 1: the warehouse whether material had been stored, and a known
Speaker 1: producer of child sexual abuse material. Ames's name was found
Speaker 1: on a card in Dean Coral's wallet. Despite this, police
Speaker 1: did not establish a direct connection between Coral and those arrested,
Speaker 1: what so they didn't know if he was actually a
Speaker 1: part of the sex trafficking ring. Police officials later stated
Speaker 1: they chose not to investigate any possible link to the murders,
Speaker 1: believing the victims' families had already endured sufficient trauma. If
Speaker 1: they were sex trafficked or not, Yep.
Speaker 2: Surely the but I don't know how to respond to that.
Speaker 2: I understand if they're going okay, the parents know that
Speaker 2: they've met a horrible, untimely death. That's enough trauma for
Speaker 2: the parents to deal with.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: But it also is like in the name of justice
Speaker 2: and making sure other people weren't involved, you can't just
Speaker 2: go We don't want to put the parents through any
Speaker 2: no anymore, So we just won't investigate this sex trafficking
Speaker 2: ring that there's lots of quote unquote rumors.
Speaker 1: About there's a lot in this case how the.
Speaker 2: Children involved, Like what there are other victims that that
Speaker 2: is messed up.
Speaker 1: We'll go into it later, but there's a lot in
Speaker 1: this case. Were just like what happened there? Like why
Speaker 1: did they stop at one point, they actually stopped looking
Speaker 1: for victims because they didn't want the number to go
Speaker 1: up any higher. Jesus Christ, that's why there's so many.
Speaker 1: That's why the number we're not sure what the number
Speaker 1: actually is because it would have been the biggest serial
Speaker 1: killer in Texas history, and then it would have didn't
Speaker 1: want it to be Yeah, like what the hell? Early
Speaker 1: on August fifteen, nineteen seventy three, two days after investigators
Speaker 1: located the final bodies initially associated with what they called
Speaker 1: the Houston mass murders, Dallas authorities uncovered a nationwide exploitation
Speaker 1: network opened by John David Norman. The raid resulted in
Speaker 1: the seizure of a card index containing as many as
Speaker 1: ten thousand names lots from across the country, along with
Speaker 1: detailed records of teenage boys victimized by this operation. No
Speaker 1: definitive evidence has emerged to show that Dean Core recruited
Speaker 1: his victims through such an organization. This is partly due
Speaker 1: to the department's decision not to pursue that line of inquiry,
Speaker 1: and partly because neither Brooks nor Henley ever reported encountering
Speaker 1: anyone connected to the alleged group, only Dean Coral. Both
Speaker 1: also stated they never witnessed victims being photographed, filmed, or
Speaker 1: released after being restrained. However, the Santa Clara arrests lends
Speaker 1: some credibility to David Brooks's claims that Dean had told
Speaker 1: him his earliest victims were buried in California, so now
Speaker 1: Dean had two boys luring others to him. Alma again
Speaker 1: trusted Dean like a father. In nineteen seventy two, Alma
Speaker 1: spotted a teenager and asked if they wanted to get
Speaker 1: in their van. Before long Dean was back at a
Speaker 1: new apartment he moved frequently. Alma didn't know at that
Speaker 1: point the Dean was actually torturing the boys himself. He
Speaker 1: thought he was sending them off to a sex trafficking ring,
Speaker 1: but he soon learned very different, and that.
Speaker 2: Was okay with him. Yeah, as long as my friend's
Speaker 2: not doing it, I'll help supply these victims for someone else.
Speaker 1: That's right now. I'm going to get really graphic here,
Speaker 1: so warning if you'd like to skip ahead thirty seconds
Speaker 1: to a minute here. Alma had no idea at this point.
Speaker 1: The Dean would use plies to rip out the puper
Speaker 1: cares one by one. Then he would take glass rods
Speaker 1: and insert them into their urethras before shattering them while
Speaker 1: inside the victim's penises.
Speaker 5: Good.
Speaker 1: Dean would then keep a small trinket like a house key,
Speaker 1: which has stated wasn't just a trophy but a way
Speaker 1: for him to burglarize the victims and further traumatize the families.
Speaker 1: He would often also take bites of the boys' penises
Speaker 1: and testicles, sometimes ripping them off. Once Alma found out
Speaker 1: what Dean was really doing, he didn't stop. He felt
Speaker 1: protected and close to Dean while there was been there's
Speaker 1: been a lot of pointing fingers at both Alma and
Speaker 1: David Brooks for their involvement in this. And when you're
Speaker 1: a teenager, you certainly know the difference between right and wrong.
Speaker 1: I would like to make it clear how manipulative Dean
Speaker 1: was and how he could change his personality to get
Speaker 1: what he wanted. Now, not only was he a master manipulator,
Speaker 1: but he also rewarded the boys financially and told them
Speaker 1: that he would always be there for them. Dean, I find,
Speaker 1: is not too dissimilar from serial killers Dennis Nilsen and
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Dahmer.
Speaker 2: I was really thinking of it. Yeah, I've been thinking,
Speaker 2: like planning to say about Jeffrey Dahmer, why is he?
Speaker 2: And just talking about American ones as well? Why is he?
Speaker 2: He's so much more well known informers. I guess there
Speaker 2: are fewer victims, but yeah, I think the same kind
Speaker 2: of victims.
Speaker 1: I know. I think he dismembered them, and I think he.
Speaker 2: Just feels to me like this one is so much
Speaker 2: more awful that people just don't talk about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the details and everything, and there are
Speaker 1: so so many details they targeted young, vulnerable boys who
Speaker 1: were often runaways. So the idea was that no one
Speaker 1: will go looking for them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's exactly what made me think of Darma.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Dennis Nelson as well. Frank Kageary was the
Speaker 1: next victim Alma, and he worked at Long John Silver's together.
Speaker 1: Alma waited for him after their shift to hang out.
Speaker 1: Alma led him straight to Dean and once they arrived,
Speaker 1: Dean would want to play his handcuff game. Dean would
Speaker 1: put them on someone's wrist and or his wrist and
Speaker 1: kind of show that he could get out of them,
Speaker 1: and then he would put them on them and he
Speaker 1: could have the key. Yeah, And that was basically something
Speaker 1: that maybe inspired John Wayne Gacy, because John Wyne Gacy
Speaker 1: did that exact same thing. It's possibly where he got
Speaker 1: his inspiration. Frank Kageary was engaged to be married to
Speaker 1: a woman by the name of Ronda Williams. Remember that name.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go through all the victims here.
Speaker 1: I will read their names at the end. But the
Speaker 1: torture continued and continued, and I have not said the
Speaker 1: worst of it.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: There was a young boy who escaped a boy by
Speaker 1: the name of Billy Ryaninger Ryaning. I think he was
Speaker 1: tied to the torture board. David begged Dean to let
Speaker 1: him go, which he did.
Speaker 2: Why do we know?
Speaker 1: We don't know, We don't know why. But Billy fled
Speaker 1: the house and they worried that he was going to
Speaker 1: say something. Alma was furious that they let him go,
Speaker 1: and Alma knock David Brooks unconscious when he came back
Speaker 1: to the house. Dean then tortured him.
Speaker 2: Alma David David.
Speaker 1: David thought that he does served it. At this point,
Speaker 1: Dean now believed that Alma was even more loyal than David.
Speaker 1: Dean would move quickly from apartment apartment, like I said,
Speaker 1: apartment to apartments sorry, like I said, that was fun
Speaker 1: to say, seemingly wororthy was going to get caught each time.
Speaker 1: He'd stay in a place like for a couple of
Speaker 1: months and then move again. The trio were now a
Speaker 1: well oiled machine, and it seemed as though they would
Speaker 1: stop at nothing. One boy disappeared after the next, and
Speaker 1: police didn't seem to be investigating them, investigating them as linked.
Speaker 1: Alma and David went out on October nineteen seventy two,
Speaker 1: and they came across Wally Simminow and Richard Henry. They
Speaker 1: started walking towards Richard's house. They were able to point
Speaker 1: Oh They were able to get him into David's or
Speaker 1: both of the boys into David's corvette and take them
Speaker 1: to Dean's apartment. At some point in the night while
Speaker 1: he was able to call his mother from Dean's apartment,
Speaker 1: but it cut off very quickly. Only word he was
Speaker 1: able to get out was Mama. The next day, Alma
Speaker 1: accidentally shot Richard in the mouth. They were strangled to
Speaker 1: death and buried in the boat shed. Like the majority
Speaker 1: of the other victims, Alma had talked to a boy
Speaker 1: by the name of Timothy Curly into going over to
Speaker 1: Dean's apartment, but they weren't alone. Ronda Williams was the
Speaker 1: fiance of Frank A. Geary. She wanted to get away
Speaker 1: from home that day because her dad was drunk and
Speaker 1: hurting her. She ended up with Timothy, and when Alba
Speaker 1: was trying to get Timothy back to Dean's place, Ronda
Speaker 1: went to Alma had told them that they were just
Speaker 1: going to a party. When they arrived at his house,
Speaker 1: Dean was mad because Ronda was there too, and that
Speaker 1: wasn't part of the plan. It was going to mess
Speaker 1: up his plans. They started partying anyway. Dean was formulating
Speaker 1: a plan while the teens were partying. After a little while,
Speaker 1: the teens fell asleep. Alma woke up to find himself
Speaker 1: gagged and handcuffed as well, and so too were Tim
Speaker 1: and Ronda. He had just waited for them to fall
Speaker 1: asleep so he could bind them all.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think they had just fallen asleep.
Speaker 2: If he's woken up time and gagged like you'd wake
Speaker 2: up earlier than that, it feels like there was that's right.
Speaker 1: Sort of sleep. Dean told them that they were all
Speaker 1: going to diet because they brought Ronda with him with them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Alma started pleading to let him go, saying that if
Speaker 1: Dean let him go, he would help him kill the
Speaker 1: other two. Dean agreed to that plan. They dragged Ronda
Speaker 1: and Tim to the bedroom put them on the torture board.
Speaker 1: Dean handed Alma and knife and said, you're going to
Speaker 1: cut the clothes off of Ronda. You're going to rape
Speaker 1: her and then kill her. Meanwhile, Dean was going to
Speaker 1: do the same to tim Alma asked Dean if he
Speaker 1: could take Ronda to another room. All of this escalated
Speaker 1: into Alma getting Dean's gun, pointing it at Dean and
Speaker 1: saying this is too much for me.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Dean did not think he was serious and urged him
Speaker 1: to shoot him. Alma shot him in the forehead. But
Speaker 1: it does not but it did not penetrate his skull.
Speaker 1: Oh what Dean was still up shooting Dean three times
Speaker 1: in the back and killing him. Wait, so al Alma
Speaker 1: killed Dean?
Speaker 2: He did?
Speaker 1: Yep?
Speaker 2: Oh so this motherfucker's never actually had to pay for it.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, I'm done with the story canceled.
Speaker 1: They called the police. Alma explained what happened when he
Speaker 1: woke up, saying that he and the other two were
Speaker 1: tied up. He explained that he told Dean he would
Speaker 1: help him if he let him go. Ronda later said
Speaker 1: that Alma saved her and Timothy's lives, saying he killed
Speaker 1: the devil. This is a phone call from Alma, who
Speaker 1: went by the middle name Wayne, to his mother directly
Speaker 1: after he killed Are.
Speaker 2: You gonna play it?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Mama's Wayne.
Speaker 5: Mama, I killed thee Yes, it's I.
Speaker 6: If that were keeps.
Speaker 4: Can I yeah, yes, she can't.
Speaker 5: Now you can't come. I'm worth the police.
Speaker 7: Mama.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's really disturbing.
Speaker 1: That's so disturbing. He did not admit right away to
Speaker 1: his role. Police found the torture board, which had handcuffed
Speaker 1: a large dildo and plastic covering the carpet. It was
Speaker 1: a room just designed for torture. They also found a
Speaker 1: crate with air holes where he would keep someone confined.
Speaker 1: Alma told his side of the story, but at some
Speaker 1: point the police became very skeptical of him. He then
Speaker 1: admitted to serving as someone that lured people for Dean.
Speaker 1: I helped him pick them, he said. He then gave
Speaker 1: the name of David Brooks, saying that he had the
Speaker 1: same role as him.
Speaker 2: Where was David in all in this?
Speaker 1: So after kind of everything happened with you know, when
Speaker 1: he was punished for what he did, he ended up
Speaker 1: moving away, like to be involved in this anymore, moved away,
Speaker 1: got a girlfriend, was going to be married. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: So he moved on and moved further away, and Alma
Speaker 1: was then the person that Dean was relying on. Over
Speaker 1: the next few days, Alma spilt everything about his part.
Speaker 1: He would then lead police to where many of the
Speaker 1: victims were buried, the rented boat shed. In the boat shed,
Speaker 1: police recovered the bodies of seventeen boys the Dean had
Speaker 1: tortured and murdered. Ten more were found at other burial sites,
Speaker 1: some on the beach, some in the woods, always in
Speaker 1: the woods. Many believed that there were many, many more victims.
Speaker 1: This took place over just a couple of years. They
Speaker 1: would see that some of these boys had instruments inserted
Speaker 1: into them, like we spoke about before, Some were carstrated,
Speaker 1: like the torture they discovered just went on and on.
Speaker 1: I won't go on and explain everything, but these were
Speaker 1: there were many more horrific acts, and the cruelty is
Speaker 1: absolutely monstrous. This is also where I mean I was
Speaker 1: saying before that police just stopped searching at some point
Speaker 1: as well. And all these unconnected people. So if you
Speaker 1: do any more reading on Dean Coral, you'll find out
Speaker 1: there are so many unconnected people that people actually believe
Speaker 1: were people.
Speaker 2: Just they just couldn't connect like that, they couldn't link
Speaker 2: them to him directly. That's right, But it seems like
Speaker 2: it could be.
Speaker 1: Yeah. David Brooks went on trial in Houston before Judge
Speaker 1: William Hatton on February twenty seventh, nineteen seventy five. Although
Speaker 1: he had been indicted for four murders committed between nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy and June nineteen seventy three, prosecutors elected to try
Speaker 1: him solely for the June nineteen seventy three killing a
Speaker 1: fifteen year old William Ray Lawrence. Well, they couldn't. They
Speaker 1: didn't have enough on him to Let's get him on
Speaker 1: the one that we can actually prove, okay. David Brooks
Speaker 1: attorney Jim Skelton maintained that his client had not personally
Speaker 1: committed any murders, instead asserting that Dean Coral and, to
Speaker 1: a lesser extent, Henley were responsible for carrying out the killings.
Speaker 1: Assistant District Attorney Tommy Dunn forcefully rejected this argument, telling
Speaker 1: the jury at one point was he an innocent bystander?
Speaker 1: This defendant was in on this killing, this murderous rampage,
Speaker 1: from the very beginning. He tells you he was a cheerleader,
Speaker 1: if nothing else. That's what he was telling you about
Speaker 1: his presence. You know he was in on it.
Speaker 2: We've discussed this so many times before on the pod.
Speaker 2: I remember Fred and Rosemary West is one that we
Speaker 2: spoke about it because after Fred West died, Rosemary was
Speaker 2: the one, the only one on trial, and so her
Speaker 2: defense was, you know, she didn't fell them, you're just
Speaker 2: wanting to make me culpable because he's not here anymore.
Speaker 2: And I remember the judge in that actually said it
Speaker 2: does not matter who pulled the trigger or who you
Speaker 2: know cast the knife. Yeah, if you are that involved,
Speaker 2: then you are just as implics and you were just
Speaker 2: as guilty of murder.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thing exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, murder doesn't have to be found guilty or be
Speaker 2: guilty of murder. Doesn't mean you have to have been
Speaker 2: the one that's actually no, in died the person's life directly.
Speaker 1: You're in accomplice and you're aware of it. In his
Speaker 1: forty minute closing arguments, Skeleton stress that the prosecutions are
Speaker 1: case relied entirely on circumstantial evidence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't mean they can't be found.
Speaker 1: Guilty No, and argue that the state had demonstrated only
Speaker 1: that Brooks was an accessory, not a principal offender. He
Speaker 1: stated the state has proven David Owen Brooks of being
Speaker 1: an accessory to murder. The state has not established a
Speaker 1: murder case. They have proved accessory to murder, not murder.
Speaker 1: Before you convict, you've got to find an act to punish.
Speaker 1: The trial concluded in under a week. After deliberating for
Speaker 1: approximately ninety minutes, the DURA returned to a guilty verdict.
Speaker 1: On March four, nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 2: That's so quick.
Speaker 1: David Brooks was convicted of Lawrence's murder and sentenced to
Speaker 1: life in prison. He displayed no visible reaction as a
Speaker 1: sentence was announced, though his wife became visibly distraught, so
Speaker 1: he was actually married at this point. David Brooks later
Speaker 1: pealed the conviction, arguing that his sign confessions had been
Speaker 1: obtained without proper advice of his legal rights. However, the
Speaker 1: appeal was rejected.
Speaker 2: Yeah late, A bit late to be, claiming.
Speaker 1: That absolutely After the trial, Alma and David were prosecuted
Speaker 1: separately for their involvement in the murders. Henley's trial began
Speaker 1: on July one, nineteen seventy four, before a judge Preston
Speaker 1: Dial in San Antonio. He was charged with six murders
Speaker 1: committed between March nineteen seventy two and July nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 2: I'm interested to know how and why they chose like
Speaker 2: the six for him and then the one for David Brooks,
Speaker 2: Like why there.
Speaker 3: I wonder if he'd be involved in so many more.
Speaker 2: I wonder how and why choose those ones.
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably he transported a few there as well. Maybe
Speaker 1: they found a little bit more evidence for him. It's
Speaker 1: hard to know. Yeah, Acting on the advice of his attorneys,
Speaker 1: Henley chose not to testify. He led counsel. His lead council,
Speaker 1: sorry William gray Cross, examined several prosecution witnesses, but did
Speaker 1: not present any witnesses or expert testimony for the defense.
Speaker 1: The prosecution presented testimony from twenty four witnesses, including Ronda Williams.
Speaker 2: So essentially, you're saying there was like no defense. The
Speaker 2: defense brought nothing. They just pleaded not guilty.
Speaker 3: It brought no.
Speaker 1: Witnesses anything, and submitted eighty two exhibits into evidence. These
Speaker 1: included Dean Coral's torture board and one of the storage
Speaker 1: boxes used to transport victims. Investigators are testified that hair
Speaker 1: recovered from the box was consistent with that of two
Speaker 1: of the victims and also Henley. The defense again declined
Speaker 1: to call any witnesses so weird. Among the prosecution witnesses
Speaker 1: was Detective David mcmullikem, who read portions of hea Ley's
Speaker 1: written statements detailing his rule in the crimes. In these statements,
Speaker 1: Henley described how he had lured two victims called Cobble
Speaker 1: and Jones, to Dean Coral's Pasadena home. He recounted that
Speaker 1: both youths were restrained following their arrival and subjected to
Speaker 1: prolonged abuse. Henley stated that Dean Coral forced the victims
Speaker 1: to fight each other under the promise that one would
Speaker 1: be spared. After several hours, Jones was restrained and compelled
Speaker 1: to witness further abuse inflicted upon Cobble, who was ultimately killed.
Speaker 1: Jones was later killed as well. Cobble and Jones were
Speaker 1: murdered on July twenty seven, nineteen seventy three, two days
Speaker 1: after being reported missing. The testimony describing these events were
Speaker 1: so distressing that several victims family members left the courtroom
Speaker 1: to regain their composure. Closing arguments were delivered on the
Speaker 1: on July fifteenth, nineteen seventy four. The prosecutions sought life imprisonment,
Speaker 1: while the defense argued for acquittal. In addressing the jury,
Speaker 1: District Attorney Carol Vans apologized for his inability to seek
Speaker 1: the death penalty, describing the case as the most extreme
Speaker 1: example of man's inhumanity to man I've ever seen. After
Speaker 1: deliberating for ninety two minutes, the jury found Henley guilty
Speaker 1: on all six counts. Formal sentencing proceedings began the following day,
Speaker 1: July sixteenth. On August eight, Judge Dial sentenced Henley to
Speaker 1: six consecutive ninety nine year prison terms totaling five hundred
Speaker 1: and ninety four years, and Henley was transferred to the
Speaker 1: Huntsville Unit to begin serving his sentence.
Speaker 2: So how old will he be when he's released?
Speaker 1: Oh, you're the one that's good at maths, Probably about
Speaker 1: nine hundred and something. That wouldn't be that much for
Speaker 1: it'd be about what six six six hundred and something years?
Speaker 2: Wow? What will that be?
Speaker 1: We should yeah, Henley, I thank you. Henley appealed both
Speaker 1: his conviction and sentence, arguing that the judge had not
Speaker 1: been sequested, that objections to media presence in the courtroom
Speaker 1: had been denied, and that the court had improperly rejected
Speaker 1: motions to move the trial from San Antonio. The appeal
Speaker 1: was successful, and a retrial was granted in December nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy eight.
Speaker 2: Poor victim's family.
Speaker 1: God but the retrial commenced on June eighteen, nineteen seventy nine,
Speaker 1: in Corpus Christi, with Henley again represented by William Gray,
Speaker 1: joined by another attorney, Edwin Pigelow. The defense renewed its
Speaker 1: efforts to suppress Henley's written statements, but Judge Noah Kennedy
Speaker 1: ruled that August nine, nineteen seventy three statements were admissible
Speaker 1: on our defense council further argued that the physical evidence
Speaker 1: introduced by the state belonged to Dean Coral, not Elma
Speaker 1: Wayne Henley.
Speaker 2: So they finally brought a defense to the table.
Speaker 1: On June twenty seven, nineteen seventy nine, and after more
Speaker 1: than two hours of deliberation, the jury once again convicted
Speaker 1: Henley on all six counts. He was sentenced to six
Speaker 1: ninety nine year prison terms, this time to be served
Speaker 1: concurrently rather than consecutively.
Speaker 2: Oh so the date's difference son He'll be out in
Speaker 2: nineteen nine years.
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm going to now read the victims. Jeffrey Alan
Speaker 1: Conan eighteen years old, James Dremahler thirteen, Timothy Lewis Curley
Speaker 1: twenty one years old, Mark Scott seventeen, Charles Odam fourteen,
Speaker 1: David Hillard thirteen, Gregory Malley seventeen, Donald Waldrop fifteen, Jerry
Speaker 1: Joe Waldrop fifteen, Richard Stirviant fourteen, Edward C. Watkins fourteen,
Speaker 1: Mark W. Tiller sixteen, Fred Sherry seventeen, James Vernon, Draymeller thirteen,
Speaker 1: Reuben Renee Gaza fifteen, Wallace Eugene Anderson nineteen, Mark Kent
Speaker 1: Scott seventeen, James Clayton Clay Henley fifteen, Stephen Mark Walldrop fifteen,
Speaker 1: Joseph Allen Lyles seventeen, Donald Glen wall Dropped fifteen, Billy
Speaker 1: Rindinger fourteen, Mark Donne seventeen, Gregory gen Malley seventeen, William
Speaker 1: Ray Lawrence fifteen, James Langham seventeen, Curtis Jones fifteen, Charles
Speaker 1: Cobble seventeen. Authorities believe at least twenty eight victims were identified,
Speaker 1: with the possibility of additional unidentified victims in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: police dug up the backyard of a place Dean Coral resided,
Speaker 1: as they believed he could have buried more than twenty
Speaker 1: further boys there. What year, sorry in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, what sad that the search was not successful,
Speaker 1: but they are continuing to search to this day. Dean
Speaker 1: Coral was killed in August nineteen seventy three before he
Speaker 1: could be arrested or tried for his crimes. The families
Speaker 1: of Dean Coral's victims and his accomplices have spoken out
Speaker 1: extensively over the decades, particularly during parole hearings and in
Speaker 1: recent documentaries as well. They kind of go into a
Speaker 1: lot there. Their statements highlight the enduring trauma and their
Speaker 1: fight for justice. A family member who remains anonymous of
Speaker 1: one of the victims of Dean Coral spoke out which
Speaker 1: I'd like to leave you with today. The worst part
Speaker 1: wasn't even learning how my son died. It was knowing
Speaker 1: that for years people had information and chose not to act.
Speaker 1: We lost our child once, but we were forced to
Speaker 1: relive that loss over and over again because the truth
Speaker 1: was ignored. Families of Coral's victims repeatedly emphasized institutional failure, silence,
Speaker 1: and the long lasting harm caused not by the murders themselves,
Speaker 1: but by the delayed investigations and the lack of accountability afterward.
Speaker 1: And that g is the story that the candy Man,
Speaker 1: the Pied Piper, and the monster that was Dean Coral.
Speaker 2: There was absolutely nothing that I liked about the last
Speaker 2: hour and a half. Nope, So thanks for giving me
Speaker 2: a week off writing the story. I guess.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a positive. That's one positive.
Speaker 4: Um.
Speaker 2: And for having me at your house.
Speaker 1: Today, GiB your wine and a mango.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I didn't finish the wine because I started
Speaker 2: feeling sick about halfway through that. I did finish the manga,
Speaker 2: but that was before I knew this story. Okay, um,
Speaker 2: it's about all I have to say. Okay, bye, oh,
Speaker 2: I just like there's there's nothing there's nothing good about
Speaker 2: that at all. Like I think that David and Alma,
Speaker 2: maybe particularly David, in my opinion, were very much groomed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they.
Speaker 2: Were also complicit in all of this. I don't know
Speaker 2: what the kind of how much one outweighs the other.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: I think the sentencing is interesting because it's like, that's
Speaker 1: kind of in a way because Dean was killed. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, I think the victims' families wanted something and
Speaker 1: that you know, that kind of makes sense. Yeah, in
Speaker 1: that sense, it's so sad that they were never able
Speaker 1: to convict Dean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the only positive about that is that he was
Speaker 2: never able to try to argue any defense.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 3: You know, they never had.
Speaker 2: To sit through him trying to say why he wasn't
Speaker 2: guilty or you know, what their sons had done wrong
Speaker 2: in his eyes or anything like that. That's the only
Speaker 2: silver lining in a very dark cloud of that. I
Speaker 2: feel so yuck about the whole thing. I feel yuck
Speaker 2: about David and Alma's involvement, but then like as in
Speaker 2: yuck towards them about that, but then somewhat yuck for
Speaker 2: them in how groomed they were and manipulated. And it's
Speaker 2: just I really hated that.
Speaker 3: Thanks but thanks.
Speaker 1: Hey, we'll be back after this with the mailbag.
Speaker 2: Do you what do you think?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 1: I think I think it's so sad, Like you know,
Speaker 1: I read and watched so much good about it, and
Speaker 1: it is so so heartbreaking because you know, you see
Speaker 1: that he was kind of he didn't have a good life,
Speaker 1: and then you know, all of a sudden it was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's living with his horrible he had, you know, these
Speaker 1: horrible stepfathers as well, and and then he was just
Speaker 1: an awful, awful person that was also rejected by his mum.
Speaker 1: And you look at the whole life and you go,
Speaker 1: nothing good ever, Like there's nothing. He became a monster.
Speaker 1: Then he was grooming kids. He had an in with
Speaker 1: that through the candy shop, and it's just I don't know,
Speaker 1: there's so much in there that he's going, Oh, it's all.
Speaker 2: It did look like I want to quickly look up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just it's it's all so so awful and
Speaker 1: like you said, get some vowels, Get some vowels in
Speaker 1: your name, some vowels in your name. But yeah, it
Speaker 1: was just such a such a horrendous and proper use
Speaker 1: of the word horrendous case to look into.
Speaker 2: There's not many pictures of him. This looks like a
Speaker 2: very kind of I mean generic man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because there wasn't, Like I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: such a such a strange case that I haven't heard
Speaker 1: of before.
Speaker 2: I've heard of the candyman like he's the killer.
Speaker 1: I've heard The Candy Man, but I haven't heard the
Speaker 1: Life of Dean Coral before.
Speaker 2: Probably why because it's so awful.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but there's so many cases like that that sadly,
Speaker 1: you know, people say, oh, it's a run away, it's
Speaker 1: a run away, and I think that was the thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely awful. Okay, I've decided next week I'm going
Speaker 2: to do one that's more out of the box. I mean,
Speaker 2: we always do crimes, so they're always awful, but I'm
Speaker 2: gonna do something a bit more, I don't know, maybe
Speaker 2: less depressing, just for a little change. I love you
Speaker 2: and I appreciate you, and I'm being very mean and
Speaker 2: not thanking you for that story. Thank you for that story,
Speaker 2: Sammy Peterson. I just I feel really lucky.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, we'll be back after the after this little
Speaker 1: break and then a mailbag. Feel better than everybody. Thank
Speaker 1: you for listening to this week's episode. We know it's
Speaker 1: a very very heavy one. There's a lot of details.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of groupsome details. I appreciate you
Speaker 1: sticking with us.
Speaker 2: I do just want to quickly give you a Chicken
Speaker 2: Joe update. The update we have so we recorded the
Speaker 2: episode and nowhere we took a little break to cleanse
Speaker 2: our souls of that story. And I did a very
Speaker 2: quick search for Chicken Joe, as I said that I
Speaker 2: would very quick search has only resulted in pictures of
Speaker 2: a chicken character from the animated film surfs Up yep.
Speaker 2: And I then narrowed my search to Chicken Joe sex
Speaker 2: trafficking yep, and that the Surf's up chicken still just
Speaker 2: came up. So there's something very funny about that. It's
Speaker 2: also not funny. So that's the update we have for
Speaker 2: you this week. I will do some more in depth
Speaker 2: research to find out more about the Chicken Joe from Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it's quite funny to me that that.
Speaker 1: I'm also just making sure that his name was Chicken Jong.
Speaker 1: He might not have been Chicken because Chicken Joe like that.
Speaker 1: That's very funny to have that many beautiful photos of animated.
Speaker 2: Chickens like photos and someone's taken. Also, a mutual friend
Speaker 2: of ours has that chicken as his Instagram profile.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm really I'm really surprised about all of That's okay,
Speaker 1: so Chicken jo I don't know when Chicken Joe came
Speaker 1: into the picture. But it is such a such an
Speaker 1: interesting name.
Speaker 2: We're going to do some more research on this.
Speaker 1: We have to. We can't just leave it there.
Speaker 3: From Chicken Joe, Chicken Joe, Dean Coral.
Speaker 1: Let me write that, Chicken Joe Dean Corey. You're writing
Speaker 1: that down, sure, jam not.
Speaker 2: Writing it down in like a notebook.
Speaker 1: With a quill. Maybe you're a lot older than you
Speaker 1: are with a quill.
Speaker 2: I have a quill, do you, yes? Because I got
Speaker 2: it from the merch store at when I went and
Speaker 2: saw Hamilton on Broadway.
Speaker 1: You know what, that's pretty fun cool right now? All right,
Speaker 1: I'm going to stop doing this because.
Speaker 2: I can't find it quickly. I got to tell you
Speaker 2: about Chicken Jo another.
Speaker 1: Time about Chicken Joe real quickly. But hey, you know
Speaker 1: what this section is all about. The male bag, male bag,
Speaker 1: male bag, male balk, the chickens chicken chicken thing.
Speaker 3: This one comes of bird noises.
Speaker 1: This episode's really good.
Speaker 2: Because and then give me one more bird to round
Speaker 2: it out three for three, give me bird or make
Speaker 2: a noise?
Speaker 1: Big cock ah, that was good as well, comes big
Speaker 1: cock makes that sound. This one comes from Sandra Hi,
Speaker 1: Sammy and Georgia. Absolutely love your podcast. You both have
Speaker 1: such kindness and empathy when talking about some of the
Speaker 1: most horrific crimes, but more importantly, you both always find
Speaker 1: the joy where possible. On Sammy's recommendation, I've just finished
Speaker 1: listening to the Wise Crap podcast Unbelieved. Thanks for the
Speaker 1: recommendation and please keep bringing us your fabulous podcast, Sandy,
Speaker 1: New South Wales.
Speaker 2: Oh thanks Sandy. Yeah, a podcast shout out. I believe
Speaker 2: I've mentioned this before, but it was when I was
Speaker 2: still listening to it. Unicorn Girl. Oh yes, unicorn So
Speaker 2: it is by the same crew who did Scamander.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've had one of where.
Speaker 2: Jackson McLennan was. We had his guest on First Treat.
Speaker 2: They've got a new one out called Unicorn Girl, and
Speaker 2: I think it is even more like I think what
Speaker 2: they investigate is even more damning than Scamander. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I recommend it.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating. Yeah, and we've got this one from Beck. Okay,
Speaker 1: So confession, I was listening to the Andrew Fraser case
Speaker 1: in the car today. Yes, I acknowledge that g had
Speaker 1: literally told us as listeners not to allow this with
Speaker 1: children in the car. Oh yeah, but my son's name
Speaker 1: is Fraser and he was getting such a kick out
Speaker 1: of hearing his name. All was fine and cute until
Speaker 1: g dropped the F bomb sweetly from the back seat. Mummy,
Speaker 1: what does fuck mean?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Oh my god, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: Then she writes, oh my.
Speaker 2: God, back, I'm so sorry. Also when I've like don't
Speaker 2: like keeps listening the car we talk about discussing crimes.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize I would be the one that would
Speaker 2: be corrupted the crime.
Speaker 1: You are the crimes. We have got a speak part today,
Speaker 1: Geet love that comes from Jenna.
Speaker 6: Hi, Sammy Hydrogel Love. I'm Jenna, and I'm so happy
Speaker 6: I find your guys' podcast as I just adore you
Speaker 6: to so much and I can't find myself listening to
Speaker 6: any other crime podcast now, and I'm so sad that
Speaker 6: I'm finally caught up because now I can't binge listen
Speaker 6: to you to when I'm working. But because I'm also
Speaker 6: caught up, I felt like it was only right to
Speaker 6: finally send you to a speak pipe and wanting to
Speaker 6: for a while, but just always end up wanting to
Speaker 6: reset it because I don't like how it comes out.
Speaker 6: I love your guys is for babies so much, but
Speaker 6: I want to know what party looks like. I love
Speaker 6: cats so much and I hear Podrey peaves and it's
Speaker 6: just like I want to see Poudrey. Speaking of Podrey peeves,
Speaker 6: my pottery peeve is those things in the middle of
Speaker 6: the aisles at grocery stores. Since I work up one,
Speaker 6: it's always in my way, constantly smacking myself, hurting myself
Speaker 6: when I'm already cutting myself on boxes. Those things are
Speaker 6: freaking sharp for cardboard.
Speaker 3: It sucks.
Speaker 6: They annoying me so much. Also, I would love to
Speaker 6: learn more about Australia, as I actually really want to
Speaker 6: move to Australia because I hate it here. The United
Speaker 6: States might as well be a freaking crime at this point.
Speaker 6: I would love to learn more and more of your
Speaker 6: sayings because I say Melbourne and my Australian friend makes
Speaker 6: fun of me every time I try to say something
Speaker 6: that is pronounced differently in Australia.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I love you too.
Speaker 2: I love you so much. First of all, love your
Speaker 2: Powda things like that as well. Second, or thank you
Speaker 2: so much for asking about Paudry. This is the thing
Speaker 2: right we recorded Sammy's house, so Diggs is always here. Now,
Speaker 2: Diggs is big main character energy, So Dix gets a
Speaker 2: lot of airtime on this podcast while we discuss Poudrey,
Speaker 2: or we say Poudrey's name every week because we do
Speaker 2: Powdery Pease, she doesn't get enough airtime on this podcast
Speaker 2: for how beautiful and in our lives she is. I'm
Speaker 2: bringing you into this as well. So Jenna Poudrey is
Speaker 2: a ragged or cat, so she is really fluffy. She's
Speaker 2: mostly white with a gray gray tail and brown face
Speaker 2: and ears, and she's actually the most beautiful thing that
Speaker 2: has ever watch. She has blue eyes. And my friend
Speaker 2: said to me the other day when we took a selfie.
Speaker 2: My friend looked at the picture and said, oh my god,
Speaker 2: you look like Powdery in this picture. And that was
Speaker 2: the nicest thing anyone who'd ever said to you. So
Speaker 2: if that gives you a good snippet of what Poordy
Speaker 2: looks like, and I'll post a photo.
Speaker 1: He put a photo yeah, on the Instagram because Poudrey
Speaker 1: is so beautiful. And actually we had some friends over
Speaker 1: for do you know last night who actually just wanted
Speaker 1: to meet Paudrey.
Speaker 2: We were going to go out for dinner with them,
Speaker 2: and then I said, every time we see them, they
Speaker 2: keep asking if they can meet Poudrey, so I think
Speaker 2: I need to invite them to my house. And she
Speaker 2: was a full blown celebrity. Either of us would be
Speaker 2: in the middle of a story and both of our
Speaker 2: friends were just we could tell they weren't listening, and
Speaker 2: they were like tapping each other and pointing at Pouelry
Speaker 2: because she was doing something just benign, and they.
Speaker 1: Were like, look at her, look at her, She's so beautiful.
Speaker 2: Celebrity, Jenna, I love you. So Melbourne, you've got to
Speaker 2: say Melbourne?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Why isn't Melbourne.
Speaker 2: Because we pronounced things incorrectly how they spelt. Although I
Speaker 2: mean I say Melbourne.
Speaker 1: It sounds better, it sounds more like that. It looks
Speaker 1: like it should be that.
Speaker 2: However, our language comes from England and they don't pronounce
Speaker 2: that like born. But yeah, Melbourne will get you sounding
Speaker 2: real local.
Speaker 1: If Melbourn.
Speaker 2: We've taught you in this episode all about lollies versus
Speaker 2: sweets or candies. Struth, Oh truth good, there's a good
Speaker 2: australianism for you. So that's like, maybe I should start
Speaker 2: saying that instead of the f bowl in the car again,
Speaker 2: struth like that that's rat.
Speaker 1: That's another rat. Rat.
Speaker 2: That's another way of got like. Instead of to the.
Speaker 1: Bomb, you can say rat struth. You can say, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a good one. You can say I'm not
Speaker 1: here to fuck spiders. Yes, so instead of if you're here.
Speaker 2: To mess around, I want to get to the point
Speaker 2: I want.
Speaker 1: To just I'll go, I go. Would you like a drink? Jenna?
Speaker 1: And you come to a bar and you go, not spiders.
Speaker 1: That's a great one. That's that's a great one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's good. Hey Jenna, I love you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love you so much.
Speaker 2: Please let us know. Yeah, America doesn't seem like the
Speaker 2: best place for no, but I want to get myself.
Speaker 2: It's actually this is a very difficult place to be
Speaker 2: in someone who is perennially online, also who perennially travels
Speaker 2: to New York City and wants to again and again,
Speaker 2: and who disagrees wholeheartedly with almost everything that Trump administration
Speaker 2: is doing. Right now, they've just said that they're going
Speaker 2: to start checking the a social media history of anyone
Speaker 2: who travels to America to see if they've been well,
Speaker 2: they haven't explicitly said to see if they've been anti Trump.
Speaker 2: But I am really desperate to post about how angry
Speaker 2: I am about things like the renaming of the Kennedy Center,
Speaker 2: the redaction of the Epstein past, and I'm really battling
Speaker 2: with myself and how to do that and also maybe
Speaker 2: be able to go back to New York.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, at some point. Yeah, we've got the next
Speaker 1: big pipe that comes from Vanessa. You're ready for this?
Speaker 7: Yes, Hi, Sammy and High Choice. I just wanted to
Speaker 7: drop you guys a quick speak parte and say that
Speaker 7: I absolutely love the podcast. I also thought you guys
Speaker 7: were just making up the names speak Pite because you
Speaker 7: wanted to be a bit more quirky than just saying
Speaker 7: voice Noe, but have since discovered that's.
Speaker 3: What they were actually called.
Speaker 7: I do have a request. I have just finished watching
Speaker 7: Until I Kill You, which is based on the story
Speaker 7: of Delia Obama, and I just think it would be
Speaker 7: such a fun and interesting one not really fun that
Speaker 7: seems a very poor choice of words, but a great
Speaker 7: one for you guys to do in the podcast, and
Speaker 7: I'm definitely desperate to know more about it. Thoroughly enjoying
Speaker 7: what you guys are doing and keep them coming.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, thank you, Vanessa, Dearie Obama. I've literally
Speaker 2: just written it down in my list right now. I
Speaker 2: was going to give you a little we love suggestions. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's going to give you a little a little synopsis
Speaker 2: of what it is. But no, you guys can walk down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you Vanessa. We love that and I'm so
Speaker 1: glad you love the podcast. We always absolutely love hearing
Speaker 1: from people that love the goddamn podcast. We have one
Speaker 1: more speak pipe for today that comes from anonymous. Oh okay,
Speaker 1: you ready for this.
Speaker 2: It's going to be some we know, isn't it.
Speaker 4: Hello, my beautiful Georgie and Sammy yesterday got here today.
Speaker 4: I hope I have your favorite, Scott. I've been listening
Speaker 4: to your podcast and I love it so much so
Speaker 4: that in December I exclusively am in exclusively only listen
Speaker 4: to Christmas music, and I have allowed your podcast presence
Speaker 4: in my car turn from work during this period, which
Speaker 4: you should feel very privileged. I listened to your friend
Speaker 4: and Rosemary west one the other week and I forgot
Speaker 4: the message at the time, but you were singing Donald
Speaker 4: Wear's your truisers. Yes, I thought I would give you
Speaker 4: a little bit more of a rendition of that, and
Speaker 4: here we go. It goes, let the wind blow high,
Speaker 4: let the wind low low through the streets, and oh
Speaker 4: the lassie say hello Donald version Bruisers.
Speaker 2: That is the full rendition of it.
Speaker 4: And it will help you with your Scottish accent. And
Speaker 4: if you would like some Scottish words, my favorite Scottish
Speaker 4: word is rich and if we put it into the pod,
Speaker 4: it would say it was a driech night in the
Speaker 4: woods when we found the body. So I will leave
Speaker 4: you with the word rich and see if you can
Speaker 4: guess what it actually means, and if you get it
Speaker 4: right or not, and I will let you know anyway.
Speaker 2: Love you, guys, You're the best. Shade.
Speaker 1: I love you so.
Speaker 2: Snade is one of the great loves of my life. Yes,
Speaker 2: she's I met Shade when I lived in Lawncestern. Don't
Speaker 2: if you can tell by her accent. She's not originally
Speaker 2: from there either, but we were in a production of
Speaker 2: Greece together and we met.
Speaker 1: Her voice is amazing, she's just she's yes, she's so good.
Speaker 1: So I think leaked.
Speaker 2: It was a very good leaked. Gonna I'm gonna work
Speaker 2: on that I think it means like dark.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, dreary maybe dreary.
Speaker 1: It's good. I love that. Let us know if we're
Speaker 1: right or not. Probably not.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna learn the whole thing again for all of you. Hey, Jenna,
Speaker 2: you've got Australian and episode and not a lesson about
Speaker 2: chicken Joe.
Speaker 1: We will bring that or whatever chickens person was.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're gonna do our Even before we do it,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say, Sammy, I feel in much better mood
Speaker 2: now than when. So I do want to say thank
Speaker 2: you because you did a lot of work in in
Speaker 2: pretty sorry if I made you feel like I didn't
Speaker 2: appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: My poor peve, do you want to tell your okay,
Speaker 2: my poor peeve. This week is when people vocalize they're
Speaker 2: coughs or sneezes, But today I want to speak specifically
Speaker 2: about coffee. So like a cough sounds like this, right, yep,
Speaker 2: So you don't use your vocal cords for that, huh.
Speaker 2: But some people use, like engage their vocal cords while coffee,
Speaker 2: so they.
Speaker 1: Go like this, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: So this has always been a poor rey peeve of mine.
Speaker 2: It has become more a There needs to be a
Speaker 2: term for something stronger than a poor repeeve, like a
Speaker 2: actual rage.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: There is an old man that lives across the hall
Speaker 2: from me in my apartment building.
Speaker 1: He's a loud coffer.
Speaker 2: No, no, not a loud coffer, Sammy, he's a vocal coffer.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: He leaves his windows open, so if I've got my
Speaker 2: windows or like the door tomain balcony open, the sound
Speaker 2: travels really directly. And I was saying, he's an old man.
Speaker 2: That makes it sound like, oh, he might be unwell.
Speaker 2: I mean, he may be unwell, but he's not like
Speaker 2: sickly at.
Speaker 1: All VOCALI he coughs like this. Yeah, I know this cough.
Speaker 2: And he does it every single day, and it always
Speaker 2: starts around the same time in the evening and goes
Speaker 2: for about maybe forty five minutes of that cough every
Speaker 2: couple of minutes, and it is driving me fucking bonkers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I really.
Speaker 2: Tempted to leave it like a passive aggressive note under
Speaker 2: the door, just being like, please cough normally if you
Speaker 2: need to cough or get your lungs checked out. It
Speaker 2: is driving me insane.
Speaker 1: I just need to get his lungs checked out, because
Speaker 1: that is that that is a hearty cough he's got there.
Speaker 1: I would say my poetry peat today is goddamn shopping
Speaker 1: trolleys everywhere.
Speaker 2: What do you mean?
Speaker 1: There are so many people take shopping trolleys with them
Speaker 1: from the supermarket to like around here where I live.
Speaker 1: There are so many shopping trolleys that are just like
Speaker 1: dumped everywhere. Really, yes, it's just so many shopping trolleys,
Speaker 1: like because they did in Australia anyway, they did, like
Speaker 1: the thing where you put money in it to release it,
Speaker 1: to release it, but some of them don't. So it's
Speaker 1: just all these shopping trolleys and like turned upside down,
Speaker 1: and I reckon people have big nights and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I take shopping have you never done that. I've never
Speaker 1: done that, You've.
Speaker 2: Never got drug with your friends. I put one of
Speaker 2: them in a shopping trolley and push them out on
Speaker 2: the street.
Speaker 1: But my pod, people that just leave shopping trolleys like
Speaker 1: upturned and everything, just like after a big night out
Speaker 1: for them to be fair.
Speaker 2: I only did that like many years ago, when I
Speaker 2: was a young, silly.
Speaker 1: Fool, young silly fool. They're an old silly fool.
Speaker 2: Oh oh my kind of fun to do.
Speaker 1: Oliver Clark as always doing the theme song. Thank you
Speaker 1: to Tams and Hayes for doing the artwork right into us.
Speaker 1: We would bloody love to hear from you, Samya junother
Speaker 1: company dot com dot au. Leave us a voicemail or confusingly,
Speaker 1: a speak post, which.
Speaker 2: Is what the website is.
Speaker 6: Cool.
Speaker 2: I also love that she thought that we were trying
Speaker 2: to be more quirky. We don't need to be more
Speaker 2: quirky where we are.
Speaker 1: So much fun. So you can leave us all of
Speaker 1: those the links are below, or just the information and.
Speaker 2: Leave us a five star ratio and five stars and
Speaker 2: instagram at another crime podcast and send us all your
Speaker 2: love and YouTube would and send us to your YouTube.
Speaker 1: You send us to your YouTube. Yeah alright, everybody, Sorry
Speaker 1: about such a heavy, heavy story this week, but we'll
Speaker 1: see you on Thursday and we can't bloody way, oh
Speaker 1: my god. Good by money