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Speaker 1: The Acting Children's Commissioner, Nicole Hucks, has called on the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory government to institute a legislative ban on the

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Speaker 1: use of spit hoood's. The controversial device was banned in

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Speaker 1: the territories youth detention facilities a number of years ago,

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Speaker 1: but despite the ban in correction, spit hoods were still

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Speaker 1: being used in police watch houses in the territory up

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Speaker 1: until last year. The Northern Territory Police, though put in

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Speaker 1: place an internal ban on their use, but the Children's

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Speaker 1: Commissioner reckons that doesn't go far enough. Now we did

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Speaker 1: put in a request to ask why the ban doesn't

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Speaker 1: go far enough, but our requests for an interview were rejected.

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Speaker 1: Now joining me on the line to talk more about

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Speaker 1: the calls is the new Police Association President Nathan Finn.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Nathan, Yes, good morning to UK and money to listeners.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show and congratulations on your appointment. We

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Speaker 1: might get into that a little bit more in just

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Speaker 1: a couple of moments, but Nathan, firstly, in what instances

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Speaker 1: is a spit hood required?

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Speaker 2: Okay, youration the spihood, Katie, It's obviously it's the spit

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Speaker 2: shield that we have actually obviously we use now in

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Speaker 2: the police force. So that's obviously Children's Commissioner is referred

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Speaker 2: to as spithood in her in her comments and previous ones.

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Speaker 2: We've actually used inside the watchhouse facilities and so it's more.

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Speaker 1: Like a spit shield, and I'm assuming that it's used

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Speaker 1: when someone's trying to spit on the police.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's correct. No one wants to see

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Speaker 2: children in cassidy at all. Unfortunate police are called when

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Speaker 2: police are used to out of control and obviously confronted

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Speaker 2: violent acts, and the optional last resort is obviously them

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Speaker 2: taking into custody and used now the Office of.

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Speaker 1: The Children's Commissioner this position paper. It claims that the

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Speaker 1: latest research from child development, youth justice and health experts

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Speaker 1: shows that the risk of spreading serious disease through spitting

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Speaker 1: is minimal and that there are more effective protective practices available,

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Speaker 1: and that spit hoods and restraint chairs contribute to significant

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Speaker 1: trauma and have contributed to debts in custody. The Children's

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Speaker 1: Commissioner claims the use of these devices is unjustifiable, especially

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Speaker 1: when used on children who are likely to be victims

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Speaker 1: of trauma. Have significant health or disability impairments or bows.

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Speaker 1: But Nathan, my understanding is that at this point in

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Speaker 1: time they're actually banned for use in watch houses with

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Speaker 1: kids anyway, aren't they.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's correct, Katie. The current policy of the Northern

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Speaker 2: Churchy Police is they are banned in the watchoffs and

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Speaker 2: use in the watchouse. Obviously, they're still made use available

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Speaker 2: on adults offenders, so obviously showing signs of spitting or

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Speaker 2: has spat on people, So they are actually banned in

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Speaker 2: the watchhouse already as part of a policy for the

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Speaker 2: Northern Churchy Police that our members would rather have some

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Speaker 2: kind of protection between their mouth and a glob of

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Speaker 2: slam or blood or being spat on by an offender

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Speaker 2: if possible.

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Speaker 1: How often would you say that police are being spat at?

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Speaker 1: Is it something that happens fairly regularly?

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Speaker 2: It is fairly regular, Katie. But again the use of

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Speaker 2: the the spit shield is very minimal in the number

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Speaker 2: of custody episodes that we actually have, So the use

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Speaker 2: of this thing is obviously well rehearsed, it's well trained

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Speaker 2: in the policies and procedures around that, and the review

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Speaker 2: of those policies and receives and the decision to use

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Speaker 2: the spit to spit shield obviously are reviewed each time

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Speaker 2: it is used.

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Speaker 1: So, from your perspective at this point of time, you know,

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Speaker 1: as the incoming Police Association president representing those rank and

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Speaker 1: file police officers, do you feel as though this legend,

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Speaker 1: this is something that needs to be legislated or do

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Speaker 1: you think that the situation that we're currently in is adequate.

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Speaker 2: The current situation is adequate. Is a procedure in places,

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Speaker 2: a policy in place where it's not used on youths,

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Speaker 2: and for the Children's Commissioner to go into the use

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Speaker 2: on adults and that sort of stuff. I get where

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Speaker 2: she's trying to get to the youth and the children

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Speaker 2: are her priority. And as with the Police Association, of mind,

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Speaker 2: our members are our priority and the safety of them

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Speaker 2: are obviously the paramount.

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Speaker 1: Now, tell me what is the process if a police

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Speaker 1: officer is spat on? Because it's like, it's a vile

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Speaker 1: and disgusting act. Honestly, I can't think of anything grosser

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Speaker 1: than somebody, you know, spitting on me. What's the process

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Speaker 1: for our police officers should something like this happen?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the current policy is obviously depending on where

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Speaker 2: the spit of lands, it can be obviously in the

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Speaker 2: face or the mouth or in the eyes. There's obviously

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Speaker 2: tested undergo that and during that time it obviously places

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Speaker 2: a high level of risk onto our members obviously to

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Speaker 2: wait the outcome if they have actually taught something or

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Speaker 2: if they haven't taught something.

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Speaker 1: Do you reckon? We actually need more precautions for police

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Speaker 1: in these instances.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely the protections in place, their options available to members.

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Speaker 2: At the end of the day, what other options have

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Speaker 2: the police gone if there's someone misbehaving in custody? Obviously,

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Speaker 2: custody is the last resort for anyone. If they are

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Speaker 2: misbehaving in custody, we have to physically restrain them, obviously

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Speaker 2: without the use of the spit shield. We haven't got

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Speaker 2: any other other options. Okay, when a person's self harming

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Speaker 2: in custody, there's very little options that we can actually

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Speaker 2: do except for physically restrain them, removing clothing, et cetera

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Speaker 2: from the person and isolate them in an isolated location.

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Speaker 1: And could there be more protections in place for our

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory police. I mean, as you said, this is

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Speaker 1: something that's being used as a last resort. Could there

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Speaker 1: be more that we have in place to protect police officers.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, we can always do more, but the fact is

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Speaker 2: that this will continue, our members will be still put

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Speaker 2: at risk and we just want the appropriate measures in

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Speaker 2: place to protect our members.

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Speaker 1: Now, we appreciate you speaking to us this morning. I

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Speaker 1: know that you've literally just been voted into the role

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Speaker 1: of the Police Association president. Nathan, what are you priorities

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Speaker 1: as the incoming presidents?

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Speaker 2: As always, Katie, the priorities are our members. Obviously, they're

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Speaker 2: well being, their protections within the workplace and also the

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Speaker 2: well being of their family so they can support the

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Speaker 2: support the Northern Territory community the best they possibly can.

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Speaker 1: There has been some real contention, I guess you'd say,

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Speaker 1: in terms of police numbers and also police morale. From

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Speaker 1: your perspective, how are things.

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Speaker 2: Going, look, Katie, it's obviously very highlighted. Obviously the past

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Speaker 2: few years have been very tough, and obviously we thank

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Speaker 2: Paul mckir for his hard work at the NT Police

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Speaker 2: Association and that the fights that we've had and the

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Speaker 2: fights we're still continuing to have, I can see that

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Speaker 2: there's improvement on the margin that the current Acting Commissioner

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Speaker 2: has been in regular contact with myself and also our

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Speaker 2: office in relation to a number of pressing issues and

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Speaker 2: happy to progress those issues in a professional relationship. We

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Speaker 2: know we're not going to agree on things on times

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Speaker 2: that the fact is our members are our priority. If

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Speaker 2: we haven't got the members to serve the Northern tre

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Speaker 2: we haven't got anything to serve.

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Speaker 1: With, Nathan, What are some of those issues that you

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Speaker 1: know you are working through with the with the Police Commissioner,

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Speaker 1: the acting Police Commissioner and really hoping to make some

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Speaker 1: in roads.

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Speaker 2: So improvement in housing, especially in regional and remote housing currently,

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Speaker 2: discipline matters, obviously, delay in obviously progressing through discipline matters,

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Speaker 2: and just the health and wellbeing and making sure that

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Speaker 2: our members are supported to do the best possible job

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Speaker 2: they can. One of the.

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Speaker 1: Huge concerns for the community right now is obviously, you know,

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Speaker 1: the issue of public safety and people feeling as though

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police are doing a great job with

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Speaker 1: the you know, with what they can, but the fact

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Speaker 1: is that we've had some really violent crime. Now. We

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Speaker 1: did speak to the Northern Territory Chief Minister on the

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Speaker 1: show on Monday, and she made these comments in terms

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Speaker 1: of the government's response and some of those timelines in

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Speaker 1: terms of that crime. Take a listen to what she'd

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Speaker 1: told us on Monday.

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Speaker 3: So, Katie, we're expecting a report later this month on

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Speaker 3: that Bail and Weapons Task Force from that group, and

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Speaker 3: any legislative changes will work through for that July sitting.

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Speaker 3: So the next time the Parliament comes back together after

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Speaker 3: the estimates, will make any legislative changes that are recommended.

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Speaker 1: What do you anticipate it's going to be in that report?

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Speaker 3: So we're looking, Katie in that space around whether we

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Speaker 3: need to strengthen the penalties for weapons offenses and whether

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Speaker 3: any additional weapons should be included in the list of

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Speaker 3: prohibited and controlled weapons.

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Speaker 1: Why is it taking so long, Katie?

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Speaker 3: I can assure your listeners we are acting with urgency

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Speaker 3: and we want to do this as quickly as possible,

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Speaker 3: but we need to make sure that we get it right,

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Speaker 3: that we don't make inadvertent changes that make our community

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Speaker 3: less safe, and that we actually target what we're trying

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Speaker 3: to achieve in terms of knife crime. We've seen this

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Speaker 3: as an approach almost like a public health response, so

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Speaker 3: treating a disease trying to prevent it and cure it

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Speaker 3: at the same time. When are we.

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Speaker 1: Expecting the outcome of that? When are we're expecting some changes, Katie.

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Speaker 3: I think that we would expect to see a draft

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Speaker 3: version of that life crime strategy. And this is not

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Speaker 3: just sitting with police, Katie. This involves education, This involves

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Speaker 3: public health in terms of warning of the injury mental health.

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Speaker 3: So it's quite comprehensive. I think by the end of

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Speaker 3: August is when I would expect to have that document.

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Speaker 1: So, Nathan, as the incoming Police Association president, do you

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Speaker 1: think that that's adequate?

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Speaker 2: No, definitely, Katie's obviously it's moving far too slowly for

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Speaker 2: our obviously recommendations. Yeah, it was promised im mediate action.

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Speaker 2: We get to see that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it does feel as though it needs to all

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Speaker 1: move a little bit more quickly.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: It feels like the police as well are always there

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Speaker 1: at the you know, the really pointy end, trying their

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Speaker 1: best to keep the community safe. And I know that

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Speaker 1: the community is very appreciative of that. Today is actually

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Speaker 1: thank you first respond to day. But Nathan, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you take that into account, do you think that

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Speaker 1: the police have all the tools that you need in

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Speaker 1: your be to be able to really deal with the

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Speaker 1: issues that we've got right now.

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Speaker 2: Definitely not Katie. Our members can only operate with the

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Speaker 2: current legacy framework. They've got to have the consistent feedback

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Speaker 2: from members that some offenders are getting far too many opportunities.

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Speaker 2: In fact, members are told it's the widespread of the

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Speaker 2: view of use that are untouchable, to the point that

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Speaker 2: they've blatantly told victims that if confronted.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the.

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Speaker 1: Mighty scary part, isn't it. You know, when you've got

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Speaker 1: yous that think that they can do whatever they want,

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Speaker 1: it makes it really hard on the rest of the community.

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Speaker 1: And indeed the.

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Speaker 2: Police, and definitely the police are obviously the pointy and

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Speaker 2: as we discussed before, there's obviously some serious policy failures.

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Speaker 2: If we have got a children have got a young

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Speaker 2: child in a customing facility for police. Okay, so we're

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Speaker 2: talking about education obviously, what has happened for this young

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Speaker 2: youth in education space? What have we intervened with, what

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Speaker 2: has territory families involvement been in this use in use

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Speaker 2: life us a very complex and heart situ. But the

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Speaker 2: fact is that they're there and we have to deal

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Speaker 2: with it, and we have to deal with it the

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Speaker 2: best possible way, and that's true Legacy Flee framework where

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Speaker 2: we're supported by government and supported by the police police.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it does seem like there needs to be some

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Speaker 1: serious work done. Nathan Finn, the incoming Police Association President,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much for your time today. But also,

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Speaker 1: as I mentioned a moment ago, we know that today

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Speaker 1: is thank a first respond to day. I know that

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Speaker 1: a lot of Territorians out there are incredibly grateful for

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Speaker 1: the work that our Northern Territory Police do and all

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Speaker 1: of our first responders, so on behalf of the community.

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Speaker 1: Thank you and thank you to our wonderful police officers

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Speaker 1: that do a great job here.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie. And also from myself to all the

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Speaker 2: obviously first responders out there today and the members of

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Speaker 2: the public bo all mean go up and say thank

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Speaker 2: you for your personal thanks for what they do each

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Speaker 2: and every day to protect the Northern Territory and keep

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Speaker 2: the community safe.

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Speaker 1: Nathan, thanks so much for your time first interview with us.

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Speaker 1: No doubt there'll be plenty more. Thanks for your time

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Speaker 1: this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Katy, I appreciate it. Good morning for your listeners,

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Speaker 2: thank you,