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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcottin woman from Gadighal Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Friday,

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Speaker 2: the twenty fourth of March.

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Speaker 3: I'm Zara, I'm sam.

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Speaker 2: Australia is a step closer to a referendum on an

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Speaker 2: Indigenous voice to Parliament.

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Speaker 4: This referendum presents every Australian with a historic democratic opportunity.

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Speaker 2: PM Anthony Albanizi has proposed the question Australia will be

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Speaker 2: voting on later this year at an emotional press conference

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Speaker 2: flanked by members of the Referendum Working Group.

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Speaker 4: This is a modest request, I say, do oh, I

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Speaker 4: say to Australia. Don't miss it, don't miss it.

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Speaker 2: Tom's going to join us on the Deep Dive today

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Speaker 2: to talk about what's been proposed and what it's been

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Speaker 2: like to be in Canberra during this monumental week, but

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Speaker 2: first we're going to hit the headlines.

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Speaker 5: The Therapeutic Goods Administration has provided the government with potential

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Speaker 5: options for vape reform now. According to the TGA, possible

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Speaker 5: changes include introducing warning statements on vapes and restricting flavors.

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Speaker 5: The TGA shared some of the key points of public

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Speaker 5: feedback on Thursday, with the Federal government now actively considering.

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Speaker 5: That's their words the TGA's advice on the matter.

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Speaker 2: Australian police have seized over fifteen million dollars worth of

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Speaker 2: methamphetamine on a plane from Papua New Guinea that was

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Speaker 2: flying at an unauthorized low altitude to avoid radar detection.

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Speaker 2: The five men allegedly involved in the transportation were arrested

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Speaker 2: by Queensland and Federal police officers after the plane landed

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Speaker 2: at a regional Queensland airstrip on Tuesday afternoon.

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Speaker 5: Canada's population grew by over one million for the first

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Speaker 5: time in its history last year. The figures were released

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Speaker 5: by Statistics Canada on Wednesday local time, finding that population

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Speaker 5: growth was its highest since the post war baby boom

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Speaker 5: in the fifties. The population growth in twenty twenty two

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Speaker 5: was largely attributed to the influx of immigrants, who made

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Speaker 5: up for almost ninety six percent of the total growth recorded.

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Speaker 2: And the good news which if you have TikTok you

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Speaker 2: will have seen everywhere. Spanish man Alex Roca Campillo has

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Speaker 2: finished the Barcelona marathon in under six hours. He's become

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Speaker 2: the first person with a seventy six percent disability to

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Speaker 2: have finished a marathon. Campio has cerebral palsy after contracting

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Speaker 2: encephalitis when he was just a baby, rendering seventy six

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Speaker 2: percent of the left side of his body immobile. He

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Speaker 2: said he was speechless after finishing the race. Joining us

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Speaker 2: from a very noisy Parliament House today is political journalist

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Speaker 2: Tom Crowley. Tom, thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Sara, I've tried to find a quiet corner of

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Speaker 3: this building.

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Speaker 2: You have not succeeded.

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Speaker 3: You never know who might be lurking around the corner.

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Speaker 2: So you were in the room yesterday when the PM

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Speaker 2: made his historic announcement that was of course about the

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Speaker 2: question that Australians will vote on for the referendum later

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Speaker 2: this year. And there is a fair bit to unpack

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Speaker 2: here before we get into yesterday and everything that unfolded

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Speaker 2: I do just want to start with the basics, which

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Speaker 2: is just explaining to everyone listening what exactly the Indigenous

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Speaker 2: Voice to Parliament actually is.

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Speaker 3: Sure things are so, yeah. The Indigenous Voice to Parliament

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Speaker 3: is an idea which dates back to twenty seventeen to

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Speaker 3: the Ularu Statement from the Heart. That was a statement

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Speaker 3: that was developed at a conference with Indigenous leaders from

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Speaker 3: across the country and the idea is that it would

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Speaker 3: be an official representative body for First Nations people to

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Speaker 3: advise Parliament and the government on laws that affect them. Now,

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Speaker 3: the Ulary Statement specified that this should be included in

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Speaker 3: Australia's Constitution. So the voice itself is something that can

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Speaker 3: be set out with ordinary laws. But if it's just laws,

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Speaker 3: then a future parliament could get rid of it. The

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Speaker 3: purpose of putting something in the constitution is to make

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Speaker 3: it permanent. That is what we will vote on at

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Speaker 3: the end of this year, because in order to change

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Speaker 3: the constitution you have to hold a referendum where everybody

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Speaker 3: in the country votes. We vote in answer to a question,

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Speaker 3: we answer yes or no, and a referendum requires a

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Speaker 3: majority of voters in a majority of Australia states to

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Speaker 3: say yes in order to happen.

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Speaker 2: So many of our listeners won't have ever voted in

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Speaker 2: a referendum, and it really does feel like wherever you

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Speaker 2: sit on this issue, whatever happens, it is still very

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Speaker 2: historic and is a major thing to have happen in

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Speaker 2: our lifetimes. So I want to go to the press

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Speaker 2: conference of Prime Minister Anthony Alberenezi. Yesterday. We had a

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Speaker 2: very emotional Prime Minister who was flanked by an number

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Speaker 2: of First Nations leaders and experts. Take me to that

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Speaker 2: scene where you were sitting in that press conference and

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Speaker 2: what we found out.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I should get the specifics out of the way first. Yesterday,

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Speaker 3: what we got was the question that we will be

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Speaker 3: asked at the referendum.

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Speaker 4: The question that Australians will be asked it this year's

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Speaker 4: referendum is a very simple one. It will read a

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Speaker 4: proposed law to alter the Constitution to recognize the first

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Speaker 4: Peoples of Australia by establishing an average on a Torres

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Speaker 4: Strait Islander voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration? That's

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Speaker 4: the question before the Australian people, nothing more but nothing less.

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Speaker 3: So those are the set of words that the Prime

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Speaker 3: Minister is proposing to put to us later this year.

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Speaker 2: And so to come back to the vibe of the

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Speaker 2: room yesterday, what was that like?

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Speaker 3: It was really emotional. It was a really intense experience.

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Speaker 3: And that's not about kind of you know, whether you

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Speaker 3: support the voice or not. It really was just a

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Speaker 3: lot of raw emotion on display in the room. So

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Speaker 3: the Prime Minister appeared with every First Nations member of

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Speaker 3: the Labor Party alongside him, but also members of what

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Speaker 3: they call a Referendum Working Group, which is a group

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Speaker 3: of experts, non politicians, First Nations people who have been

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Speaker 3: kind of guiding this process and advising the government.

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Speaker 2: Tom throughout the press conference, you and I were texting,

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Speaker 2: and I was obviously watching it on TV and so

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Speaker 2: wasn't getting a wide pan view of who was actually

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Speaker 2: in the room. And at the end when they showed

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Speaker 2: who was in the room, I saw that Ken Wyatt,

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Speaker 2: who was the former Coalition Minister for Indigenous Affairs, was

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Speaker 2: standing next to Anthony Alberizi. And to me that was

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Speaker 2: a really really strong show of unity between you know,

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Speaker 2: a former senior Coalition minister and the current Labor Prime minister.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he was there. I think one thing that maybe

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Speaker 3: the TV cameras didn't quite cap sure. It was just

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Speaker 3: the depth of emotion from so many of the people

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Speaker 3: on that stage, including Ken Wyatt, who was standing, as

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Speaker 3: you say, next to the Prime Minister. Clearly, for those

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Speaker 3: people who are advocates of the voice, this is a

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Speaker 3: really powerful and significant moment. It's fair to say, as

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Speaker 3: we're going to get to in a moment I think

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Speaker 3: that the voice debate is becoming a pretty contentious one.

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Speaker 3: I think that there was an element of maybe the

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Speaker 3: toll that that had taken on some people in the room,

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Speaker 3: but there was, yeah, this really palpable sense of you know,

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Speaker 3: I think it being a momentous occasion. The Prime Minister

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Speaker 3: himself got emotional at times, as well as did the

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Speaker 3: Minister for Indigenous Affairs, Linda Bernie.

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Speaker 4: Today we take a big step forward on the long

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Speaker 4: journey to constitutional recognition through voice.

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Speaker 3: We heard from Linda Bernie there. I think the other

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Speaker 3: moment that really stood out to me was Professor Marcia Langton.

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Speaker 3: So she's a well known academic. She was involved under

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Speaker 3: Ken Wyatt in the coalition in kind of a process

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Speaker 3: of designing what a voice could look like, tation process

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Speaker 3: that spoke to thousands of First Nations people and she's

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Speaker 3: been around the block. I think that's maybe the best

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Speaker 3: way to describe Professor Langton. And she spoke in pretty

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Speaker 3: frank terms, as she often does about I guess why

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Speaker 3: she felt that a voice Deparliament was necessary, and I

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Speaker 3: guess a little bit of the history of behind a voice.

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Speaker 6: We're here to draw a line in the sand and

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Speaker 6: say this has to change, people's lives have to improve.

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Speaker 6: And we know from the evidence that what improves people's

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Speaker 6: lives is when they get to say and that's what

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Speaker 6: this is about.

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Speaker 5: Thanks March.

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Speaker 2: She certainly does have a way of getting her message

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Speaker 2: across incredibly clearly and just in the most cutting way possible.

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Speaker 2: If we circle back to this idea though, of unity,

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Speaker 2: I think seeing ken Wyat next to the Prime Minister

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Speaker 2: is one thing, but if you were to leave that

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Speaker 2: briefing room, leave those four walls, the same can't be

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Speaker 2: said for even the rest of Parliament, but certainly the

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Speaker 2: rest of the country. Can you talk me through what

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Speaker 2: the kind of two sides of this debate, if you

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Speaker 2: can be binary in that way look like currently.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I mean you know there will be we'll

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Speaker 3: get a yes and a no pamphlet. There will be

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Speaker 3: a yes and no campaign, and clearly opinion is divided

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Speaker 3: across the country, divided among the general public, but divided

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Speaker 3: among First Nations people as well. I think that's really

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Speaker 3: important to emphasize. So I guess the opposition, particularly the

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Speaker 3: Liberal Party, we don't actually have a formal position from

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Speaker 3: them yet, but we have heard quite a lot from

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Speaker 3: Peter Dutton, who I think tends to emphasize, as he

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Speaker 3: did when we spoke to him, that he's most interested

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Speaker 3: in practical outcomes, and I think he is it's fair

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Speaker 3: to say skeptical to begin with, on weather or voice

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Speaker 3: will achieve those practical outcomes.

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Speaker 2: And he's also said that he's asked the Prime Minister

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Speaker 2: and we saw that letter a little while ago for

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Speaker 2: answers to a number of questions he's had on this,

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Speaker 2: he said yesterday and that press so that he hadn't

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Speaker 2: received those answers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so he has been talking about that detail and

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Speaker 3: also has a number of questions about the proposed wording,

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Speaker 3: the legal implications and a lot of kind of other

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Speaker 3: details to that effect. Here is a little clip of

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Speaker 3: what he said, as he mentioned yesterday.

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Speaker 7: The government's proposing at the moment is that the Australian

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Speaker 7: public will go to vote on a Saturday, and then

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Speaker 7: from the Monday on for six months there'll be consultation

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Speaker 7: on the model. Now that is putting the cart before

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Speaker 7: the horse, and a lot of that detail can be

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Speaker 7: egned out, it can be put forward, proposed and people

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Speaker 7: can then make a judgment about whether this is going

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Speaker 7: to improve the situation for Indigenous Australiants or whether it's

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Speaker 7: going to put another layer of bureaucracy in place.

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Speaker 3: In a similar vein just into Nampajinpa Price, who is

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Speaker 3: a Coalition senator who's a vocal opponent of the Voice

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Speaker 3: as well as being an Indigenous woman from the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 3: She brought a delegation to Parliament this week which I

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Speaker 3: was also there for a number of people from the

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory who are Indigenous people who do not support

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Speaker 3: a void and so it was really interesting to hear,

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Speaker 3: you know, those perspectives, including from some people who you

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Speaker 3: know who maybe don't often speak in the halls of Parliament.

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Speaker 3: That was certainly the way that Justice Price was framing it.

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Speaker 3: Here's just a little clip of what she said.

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Speaker 2: This is a trojan horse.

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Speaker 1: There are ulterior motives, and as Indigenous Australians, though with

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Speaker 1: indigenous heritage in this country, we don't want to be divided.

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Speaker 1: We simply don't want to be divided along the lines

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Speaker 1: of race.

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Speaker 3: And I think, I mean, we keep coming back to emotion.

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Speaker 3: You can hear some emotion in that as well. It's obviously,

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it's not our place necessarily to

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Speaker 3: kind of offer any comment on what to make and

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Speaker 3: how to square these two different emotional voices that we

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Speaker 3: hear in this debate. One observation though, that I have

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Speaker 3: in this is how similar in a sense a lot

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Speaker 3: of the concerns that the yes and no cases are raising,

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Speaker 3: at least when you hear directly from indigenous people. Clearly

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Speaker 3: they have arrived at very different positions in terms of

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Speaker 3: voice itself on what they think it will do. But

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Speaker 3: you know, standing there and listening not just to Enterprise

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Speaker 3: but to the people who were standing with her, it

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Speaker 3: was really apparent that you know, a lot of the

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Speaker 3: things that they were saying sound a lot like what

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Speaker 3: advocates of the voice say as well, you know, we

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Speaker 3: have not been heard. No one's listening to us the

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Speaker 3: failure to close the gap, the legacy of the stolen generations.

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Speaker 3: You know, it was really fascinating. How on polar opposites

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Speaker 3: of this debate. You know, I guess the common theme

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Speaker 3: is consistent policy failure. That's something that nobody seems to

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Speaker 3: disagree with.

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Speaker 2: We do have a few months before we do have

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Speaker 2: to vote, so talk me through what comes now? What

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Speaker 2: is the road to an actual referendum? So next step

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Speaker 2: will be Parliament voting on this question. So just like

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Speaker 2: any kind of piece of legislation that goes before the Parliament,

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Speaker 2: it goes through various committees of politicians who discuss that

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Speaker 2: there may be some changes. The Prime Minister seems pretty

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Speaker 2: set on this wording that they've now agreed on, but

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Speaker 2: then that wording will go before the Parliament essentially to

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Speaker 2: kind of approve having a referendum, and if that vote passes,

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Speaker 2: then then off it goes to the public. So there'll

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Speaker 2: be a campaign.

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Speaker 3: I mentioned those pamphlets before, and no doubt we've already

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Speaker 3: heard from kind of community organized yes and no campaigns.

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Speaker 3: There'll be a great deal, I'm sure of fundraising on

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Speaker 3: both sides for ads and messaging and a whole lot

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Speaker 3: of conversations to be had between now and then about

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Speaker 3: the voice. We don't know exactly when the referendum vote

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Speaker 3: itself will be generally speaking, you know, people tend to

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Speaker 3: suggest it'll be sometime around September, but certainly before the

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Speaker 3: end of this year.

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Speaker 2: I think over the next few months it's something in

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Speaker 2: the Daily OS will be thinking about is how can

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Speaker 2: we get as much information to voters, which is what

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Speaker 2: every single person who is in Australia and of voting

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Speaker 2: age listening to this will be how we get as

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Speaker 2: much information to as possible, how the rules of how

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Speaker 2: a referendum work are clear, and how you can go

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Speaker 2: to vote on the day feeling the most well equipped

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Speaker 2: that you can to vote on what is a very

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Speaker 2: important issue. Either way, Tom, thanks for jumping on the

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Speaker 2: pod today.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 5: Thanks for joining us on the Daily OS. How have

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Speaker 5: you been feeling about the podcast this week? I know

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Speaker 5: Zara and I've loved delivering some really interesting conversations and

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Speaker 5: we would equally love if you could give us a

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Speaker 5: rating and review on whatever app you've got open right now.

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Speaker 5: It helps new people find us and join the TDA community.

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Speaker 5: Have a beautiful weekend,