Speaker 1: Gid A, Peter Helly here Welcome to you Ain't Seen
Speaker 1: Nothing Yet? The Movie Podcast, where our chat to a
Speaker 1: movie lover about a classic or but loved movie they
Speaker 1: haven't quite got around to watching until now. And today's
Speaker 1: guests comedian Kiwi mate Ben Hurley.
Speaker 2: Do you really think you have a chance against us?
Speaker 2: Mister cowboy?
Speaker 1: Open the pod bay doors, Hell, I'll have what she's having?
Speaker 1: What ma happening right?
Speaker 3: You Ain't seen Nothing Yet?
Speaker 1: I first met Ben Hurley when I traveled across the
Speaker 1: Ditch through a brand new panel show over there called
Speaker 1: seven Days Think Good News Week with Kiwi's or if
Speaker 1: you're English, Mocked the Week with Kiwi's. It was a
Speaker 1: lot of fun and Ben and I headed off immediately.
Speaker 1: We bonded over movies, music, comedy, and quite a few beers.
Speaker 1: That was back in two thousand and nine and the
Speaker 1: show has been a massive success, winning huge audiences and
Speaker 1: taking in all the awards. Ben is a type of
Speaker 1: bloke who you love to make laugh because Ben loves
Speaker 1: to laugh. Even better than that, Ben's a type of
Speaker 1: mate that makes you laugh even more. I've got the
Speaker 1: perform on the same bill as Ben multiple times for
Speaker 1: New Zealand Comedy Festival Galas out of the famous Auckland
Speaker 1: Comedy Institution the Classic. He can be seen soon on
Speaker 1: Ozzie screens, on SBS's Trans Tasman panel show Patriot Games,
Speaker 1: which is returning for its second season, and also The
Speaker 1: Elephant in the Room. He actually was an original cast
Speaker 1: member of the Project New Zealand but jumped ship to
Speaker 1: TV and zed's seven sharp, No no no grudge here, Ben,
Speaker 1: You're okay by me, mate, Ben. He's a much love
Speaker 1: bigger in New Zealand, both on screen and on stage.
Speaker 1: Ben's generous, hilarious, and I love that he looks a
Speaker 1: bit like Dave Grohl, so I'm bloody stoked to be
Speaker 1: hanging with him today.
Speaker 4: Good a Kyota, This is Ben Hurley. And my three
Speaker 4: favorite films are Mystery Men.
Speaker 1: I Believe in My Powers, and I believe Hot Fuzz
Speaker 1: Point Break or bum Boys too? Which one do you
Speaker 1: think I prefer? No, I mean, which one do you
Speaker 1: want to watch first? And Twelve Monkeys may Day Mayney
Speaker 1: Terriss are kicking over the Nacatolic Building Century.
Speaker 4: City, And until last night I had never seen the
Speaker 4: usual suspects.
Speaker 1: All Right, you all know the drill. When your number
Speaker 1: is called, step forward and repeat the fresh you've been given.
Speaker 1: Understand number one, step.
Speaker 5: Forward, Hand me the keys, you fucking cocksucker.
Speaker 1: Number two, step forward.
Speaker 2: Give me the fucking keys, you fucking.
Speaker 1: Knock it off.
Speaker 5: Get back number three, step forward.
Speaker 3: Hell me the keys, you cat tucker.
Speaker 4: In English, please excuse me in English, I.
Speaker 3: Mean the fucking keys you got taker, What the fuck?
Speaker 1: Number four? Step forward? It was bullshit.
Speaker 5: The whole rap was a setup.
Speaker 3: Hand me the keys, you fucking cocksucker.
Speaker 5: It was all the cops fault. You don't put guys
Speaker 5: like that into a room together. Who knows what can happen.
Speaker 5: Hand me the keys, you fucking cocksucker.
Speaker 1: You know, I get approached a lot by gen Z
Speaker 1: folk asking me, Pete is Chubby check as less twist
Speaker 1: again the greatest twist of all time? And maybe it
Speaker 1: was for a while, but surely nineteen ninety five's The
Speaker 1: Usual Suspects is now the reigning King. It paved the
Speaker 1: way for a wave of twists heavy movies from Primal
Speaker 1: Fear in ninety six, The Sixth Sense and Fight Club,
Speaker 1: both nineteen ninety nine. Weirdly, it seems the only movie
Speaker 1: in the nineties that didn't have a twist was Twister,
Speaker 1: directed by Wonder King Brian Singer, problematic and we will
Speaker 1: get to that. From a brilliant script by Christopher mcquarie,
Speaker 1: The Usual Suspects takes its cues from classic noir with
Speaker 1: a modern bent. When lone survivor of a boat heist,
Speaker 1: a con man with cereral palsy, Roger verbal Kent, played
Speaker 1: brilliantly by Kevin Spacey in a career turning performance and yes,
Speaker 1: don't worry, we will also get to him soon, is
Speaker 1: questioned by US Customs Dave Couyjong in the messy office
Speaker 1: of one of his counterparts. It sets off quite the
Speaker 1: chain of events. What follows is a story where fact
Speaker 1: and fiction are blurred, beginning with the arrests of five
Speaker 1: criminals who should never have been put into the same
Speaker 1: cell as each other. Dean Keaton, Gabrielle Byrne, a next
Speaker 1: crooked cop trying to go straight, the zero foxgiver Dean Hockney,
Speaker 1: Kevin Pollack, the barely comprehensible Fenster a career de finding
Speaker 1: Benicio del Toro, and the loose Cannon McManus, Stephen Baldwin
Speaker 1: and clearly his best performance. Feeling unjustly inconvenienced by the arrest,
Speaker 1: a gang of five take on jobs aimed at giving
Speaker 1: the NYPD a big middle finger. All this takes place
Speaker 1: in the shadows of a mysterious figure, of course, possibly
Speaker 1: an urban legend or a spook story, as verbal says
Speaker 1: Turkish crime lord and bona fide Mofo Kaiser SoSE, winner
Speaker 1: of two Academy Awards for Spacey for Supporting Actor and
Speaker 1: the Regional Screenplay Christopher macquarie. The Usual Suspects set the
Speaker 1: bar high for twist based final scenes. Ben Hurley, be honest,
Speaker 1: are you, Kaiser Soso?
Speaker 2: I could be.
Speaker 4: I mean, look towards the end of the film, they
Speaker 4: just kind of, you know, keep passing the kaisa. So
Speaker 4: say along like it was at Benton in the Olympics.
Speaker 1: Mate, thank you for joining me. It's great to see.
Speaker 1: It's been a while since we have been able to
Speaker 1: spend any time together because of various borders and and
Speaker 1: just schedules, I imagine. But tell me, why hadn't you
Speaker 1: seen this movie? You are a film buff. We often
Speaker 1: speak about movies when we get together. I'm surprised that
Speaker 1: this one came.
Speaker 2: Up me too.
Speaker 4: Actually, I don't really have a good answer for that,
Speaker 4: because it's very much in my genre of movies that
Speaker 4: I love, you know, nineteen nineties, you know, fast talking,
Speaker 4: dialogue driven, you know, with with with a twist. I
Speaker 4: knew there was a twist. I didn't know what the
Speaker 4: twist was. But yeah, the other ones you mentioned, like
Speaker 4: your fight clubs and your your sixth sense, like, you know,
Speaker 4: I love those, you know. I would argue that Twister
Speaker 4: did have a twist because no one knew that Helen
Speaker 4: Hunt had been hunted by a Twister. At the end
Speaker 4: of that film, she says that it literally hunted her
Speaker 4: and her family. So I didn't see that coming, did you.
Speaker 1: Well, no, I didn't see that coming. And I love
Speaker 1: the fact they're playing on various levels Helen Hunt been hunted.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, being the twist, I mean, that's just.
Speaker 2: There's that great moment at the end.
Speaker 4: I think, I'm sure you know what I'm referring to
Speaker 4: when when I say there's at the end where Helen
Speaker 4: Hunt's a great actor, don't get me wrong, but she's
Speaker 4: hysterical and she's The line is you've not seen it.
Speaker 2: Miss that's house, and miss that house.
Speaker 4: And come after your and I went, wow, this is
Speaker 4: a great film.
Speaker 1: I remember. There's two things I remember about Twister, and
Speaker 1: I'm happy to cover Twister in this podcast. Somebody's raised Twister.
Speaker 1: I think I think an email that came through somebody
Speaker 1: suggested Twister, and in this your reaction was, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if it's a classic, but you could argue you
Speaker 1: could make the case in the genre of disaster films,
Speaker 1: it has its place. The two things I remember of
Speaker 1: Twister is the flying cow Flying Cow, and also I
Speaker 1: know very much so that phil Seymour Hoffman was in
Speaker 1: that film, because for a long time people would say
Speaker 1: to me as much as say after say to you
Speaker 1: Ben like Dave Grohl, to me, they would say, like,
Speaker 1: you fat guy off Twister. So it it took until
Speaker 1: he won the Academy Award for Capodi where people actually
Speaker 1: knew his name, so as well. On Oscar's Night when
Speaker 1: he won for Capardi, I was like, finally, I'm not
Speaker 1: the fact guy on Twister anymore. I'm Oscar winn A.
Speaker 1: Philip Seamore Hoffman.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think he's got three loans in
Speaker 4: that movie, and and he's one of the greatest actors
Speaker 4: of our generation. And he's got three loans and one
Speaker 4: of them is a Star Wars quote. He says, that's
Speaker 4: done a moon, that's a space station. So I mean,
Speaker 4: if there's ever a waiter to waste an amazing actor,
Speaker 4: it's Philip seymore Hoffman and twister.
Speaker 1: He is incredible. Rest in peace, Philip Seymore Hoffman. So
Speaker 1: did you know, lizaid? I don't want to know so
Speaker 1: much of what you thought of the film, but I
Speaker 1: mean you must have heard people talk about Kaiser so say,
Speaker 1: and had you like that been it feels like it's
Speaker 1: in the pop culture zeitgeist.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I certainly had, but I didn't. I knew
Speaker 4: that there was something to you know, I knew that name,
Speaker 4: and I knew that there was a twist, but I
Speaker 4: didn't put the two together. And if I'm honest with you,
Speaker 4: I've attempted to watch this film I'm about a dozen
Speaker 4: times in my life and got about ten minutes in.
Speaker 4: So it took me getting some proper homework with an
Speaker 4: actual deadline from a friend to do their podcast for
Speaker 4: me to force through those first ten to fifteen minutes,
Speaker 4: which are hard work.
Speaker 1: That's okay, Well, that's very interesting. We'll leave it there.
Speaker 1: We'll come back to that because that is that is
Speaker 1: very interesting. I haven't heard that before. But let's let's
Speaker 1: let's come back. Let's come back. I want to talk
Speaker 1: about your three favorite films. Mystery Men, fantastic superhero parody
Speaker 1: I guess yes, or satire.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 4: I've not watched this an actual superhero film since Michael
Speaker 4: Keaton was Batman. They don't do anything for me. That
Speaker 4: the MCU, the d CU, that is that the alternative.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it is other. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: it's just MCU and dc It should be DCU. Why
Speaker 1: is it a DCU.
Speaker 4: I'm improving it already. Look, yeah, just they don't do
Speaker 4: much for me. And I think because I saw a
Speaker 4: mystery Men kind of before it all started. It's just
Speaker 4: a fantastic parody. Yeah, Satire is definitely the word for it.
Speaker 4: Set in basically a kind of a Gotham city where
Speaker 4: everybody wants to be a superhero and there is a
Speaker 4: superhero played by Greg Kenea called Keptin Amazing, who is
Speaker 4: too good at his job and has locked up all
Speaker 4: the criminals. And because there's sort of rampant capitalism. He
Speaker 4: is sponsored by a thousand different companies, and he's starting
Speaker 4: to lose sponsors because no one's even looking at him anymore,
Speaker 4: because there's really nobody to put away anymore. And then
Speaker 4: there's a hampless band of try hard superheroes Jenine Garoffalo
Speaker 4: Ben Still, William H. Macy, Paul Rubens. That's right, and
Speaker 4: they you know they want they basically look back spoilers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a spoiler here.
Speaker 4: Okay, they accidentally kill Captain Amazing and have to save
Speaker 4: the city.
Speaker 1: Is Eddie's art in it as well?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And I love Edie his arts. I'm sure you do. Pete.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure it's his greatest sort of role, but
Speaker 4: he's definitely in it. He plays one of the Disco Boys,
Speaker 4: which is a bad gang of guys's and there's a
Speaker 4: great moment actually in it where where he just gets
Speaker 4: a gun out and all the other the mystery men
Speaker 4: that the band of hapless guys, they're like, oh wow,
Speaker 4: a gun, that's not a power and he just shoots them,
Speaker 4: like you have to have a power or some sort
Speaker 4: of special skill. They hadn't really sort of put together
Speaker 4: that firearms are quite powerful as well.
Speaker 1: It's funny with Eddie's because he was a massive influence
Speaker 1: on me, and I've been able to, you know, meet
Speaker 1: him quite a few times now, not to say we're friends,
Speaker 1: but we're just like I've been able to, you know,
Speaker 1: I've dined in with him once after a show with
Speaker 1: you know, other others around, and a couple of times
Speaker 1: and been backstage. And he's a lovely guy and like
Speaker 1: I said, a massive influence on me in the early days.
Speaker 1: And maybe because I have such a connection with him
Speaker 1: live and he's such a strong presence live, I do
Speaker 1: have trouble putting that aside. When I see him in
Speaker 1: the feature film. I'm not sure there's one where I've
Speaker 1: completely lost myself in his performance like I have, you know,
Speaker 1: with say Steve Coogan.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I'm no actor, but I think he's
Speaker 4: definitely got better at acting over the over the years.
Speaker 4: And this is definitely at the start of his acting
Speaker 4: career when he yeah, kind of just come out of
Speaker 4: stand up and I don't think he'd done a lot
Speaker 4: of it at that point.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's an absolute legend. None of the utheless hot
Speaker 1: fuzz of because egger Wright Simon peg is to follow
Speaker 1: up to Sean of the Dead, and yeah, there was
Speaker 1: some expectations on this. Did you go with the expectations
Speaker 1: that after loving Sean of the Dead or did you
Speaker 1: come to this clean?
Speaker 4: I can clean. This is the weird thing. I had
Speaker 4: not seen Sean of the Dead. I'm not anti zombie
Speaker 4: movie or horror movies, but they're just not something I
Speaker 4: gravitate towards. So I wasn't as aware of it. Went
Speaker 4: to Hot Fuzz with my now wife, she wasn't my
Speaker 4: girlfriend and Clapham when we lived in London years ago,
Speaker 4: and just on a whim, we're like, oh yeah, let's
Speaker 4: give this a go, and just how from start to finish.
Speaker 4: I've seen a million different cop shows, as we all
Speaker 4: have a million different cop movies, except for usual Suspects obviously,
Speaker 4: But and it's just I think it's it's this has
Speaker 4: a great twist. It's not at the end, it's it's
Speaker 4: sort of you know, at the end of the third act.
Speaker 4: Probably it's it's just the word perfect comedy gets thrown
Speaker 4: out around a lot. It's it's maybe not perfect, but
Speaker 4: it's very close.
Speaker 1: Well, I always define a film, any film with his
Speaker 1: comedy or anything else was did they did the director
Speaker 1: achieve exactly what he or she or they were trying
Speaker 1: to achieve it?
Speaker 2: And I.
Speaker 1: Probably haven't watched High Fives as much as you, but
Speaker 1: my recollection was that absolutely Edgar Wright and that team
Speaker 1: achieved everything they were trying to achieve.
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, I think that's that's very true. That IgA
Speaker 4: write style of you know, really fast cuts and really
Speaker 4: slept kind of you know, in your face movie making.
Speaker 4: He doesn't he doesn't shy away from you know, letting
Speaker 4: you know that he's directing the film, which I'm totally
Speaker 4: fine with. Very stylized in just loads and loads of
Speaker 4: great eggs, you know, an excellent cast, a huge cast,
Speaker 4: ensemble cast, and I just.
Speaker 2: I just love it.
Speaker 1: It's so funny, including our very own Australia's very own
Speaker 1: Cate Blanchette in a bit of a masquerade the performance.
Speaker 1: She's one of the when they're I think they're dusting
Speaker 1: for fingerprints or something and they're all wearing those heads
Speaker 1: of toe kind of you know, kind of white ones,
Speaker 1: that's right, the masks on it. Yeah, she's she's one
Speaker 1: of those twelve monkeys. Terry Gilliam and I saw this
Speaker 1: when it came out in the cinema and loved it.
Speaker 1: Brad Pitt, Bruce Willis, and I said. I was in
Speaker 1: community radio at the time, Ben Hurley, and I said
Speaker 1: to my co host James Brasher that, and I mentioned
Speaker 1: this every time this kind of this movie comes up,
Speaker 1: or this era of Brad Pitt comes up. Specifically, after
Speaker 1: seeing Twelve Monkeys, I said to him, Brad Pitt would
Speaker 1: become one of the finest actors of our generation. And
Speaker 1: he laughed and embarrassed me in front and tried to
Speaker 1: humiliate me in front of our six or seven listeners.
Speaker 5: And I.
Speaker 1: Have to bring it up now because I have more
Speaker 1: than six and seven listeners now, and I want him
Speaker 1: to know that I was right, and also everyone else
Speaker 1: to know that I back Brady Early.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's great as the and it's a kind of theatrical,
Speaker 4: over the top performance, and it's fine because the whole
Speaker 4: film is theatrical and over the top, kind of got
Speaker 4: the acting rock of Bruce Willis. He's kind of the
Speaker 4: one who was an en Medlin Stowe who's fantastic in
Speaker 4: that film as well. I think I'm the same as you.
Speaker 4: You're Mes simmer Age Peter and I saw this at
Speaker 4: the movies and I was probably in my late teens,
Speaker 4: and I understood it, and that may be feel pretty
Speaker 4: special because loads of people, I think, everyone, what the
Speaker 4: hell was that about?
Speaker 1: It's it's something that only occurring to me recently that
Speaker 1: and I've spoken about it again on this podcast before
Speaker 1: is post the Punstrung Love episode with with my good
Speaker 1: friend Hamies McDonald, who and Hamish didn't quite connect with
Speaker 1: that film as much as I do. I think it's
Speaker 1: a it's a perfect film under the criteria that I
Speaker 1: gave before, But there's something very special. Sometimes. I think
Speaker 1: we grow up trying to get people to like all
Speaker 1: the same things we do. Like you become ambassador for
Speaker 1: your the music and the movies that you listen to
Speaker 1: and watch, so you want other people to experience it
Speaker 1: like you do. But this if everybody was experienced it
Speaker 1: the way you do, have the same feeling, it takes
Speaker 1: away the specialness. So sometimes you have to just protect
Speaker 1: that specialness and be okay about other people not liking
Speaker 1: or getting what you got. And I can imagine you
Speaker 1: coming out of Twelve Monkeys feeling pretty toughed that you
Speaker 1: saw what Terry Gilliam was trying to achieve.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I think someone had shown me Brazil, which
Speaker 4: is this kind of first big film, and I didn't
Speaker 4: quite get it. But I knew it was good, if
Speaker 4: that makes any sense, But I didn't quite understand at all.
Speaker 4: And then and then Twelve Monkeys came out, which is
Speaker 4: more of a Hollywood film and definitely more accessible, even
Speaker 4: though it's quite challenging and it's great. It's like, I
Speaker 4: love Back to the Future, but this is like back
Speaker 4: to the Future for grown ups.
Speaker 1: That's a decent way of putting it. I mean, I
Speaker 1: would argue that back to the Future is for all ages,
Speaker 1: Ben Hurley, and but I do know what you mean.
Speaker 1: It's you know, there is a mental asylum, you know,
Speaker 1: a factor going on. So yeah, it's it's it's I
Speaker 1: haven't watched it for a long time, which surprises me. Actually,
Speaker 1: in fact, I reckon I maybe only have seen it twice,
Speaker 1: but I remember loving it. When I gotta watch it again.
Speaker 1: Actually I'm running it down. It's on my list to
Speaker 1: watch again. Steri Gillian, Twelve Monkeys, Brad Pitt, brids Reelis
Speaker 1: Medal and Stow. All right, let's talk about the film
Speaker 1: we are here to talk about. I am excited about
Speaker 1: this because I saw this in the cinema and I
Speaker 1: was blown away. And this is not to try to
Speaker 1: you know sway. You know you already would have made
Speaker 1: up your mind and you have some thoughts. Always mentioned
Speaker 1: on this podcast, we're talking to somebody who has just
Speaker 1: seen a classic film for the first time within usually
Speaker 1: the last twenty four hours. There's probably still some processing
Speaker 1: going on, but I was blown away and this would
Speaker 1: be very high up in my all time favorite films.
Speaker 1: We should point out before we get into it a
Speaker 1: little the issue that we had. We were discussing doing
Speaker 1: this film in all sincerity and seriousness, there is some
Speaker 1: problems with some of the people, some of the creatives
Speaker 1: in this There's been multiple allegations against Kevin Spacey and
Speaker 1: also the director Brian Singer. So we had a quick
Speaker 1: to and fro about whether we should you know, where
Speaker 1: we lie as far as separating art from artists and
Speaker 1: and you know, canceling our movies. We're obviously we are proceeding,
Speaker 1: but we should acknowledge we know that there are problems,
Speaker 1: because there will be you know, potentially praise for both
Speaker 1: those people from a craft and art point of view,
Speaker 1: but we certainly don't condone any of the other actions.
Speaker 4: I believe it's a Weinstein produced film, so it's a
Speaker 4: real trifector of monsters involved in this one as well.
Speaker 4: So I just thought we say that, yeah, it has
Speaker 4: problemtic But the way I would like to think of
Speaker 4: it is there's there's loads of other people involved with
Speaker 4: the film who are, for all that we know, good people.
Speaker 4: So they shouldn't I guess, miss out having their their
Speaker 4: work looked at and critiqued because you know, three people
Speaker 4: were incredibly bad people potentially, but definitely.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I think that's absolutely right to be honest,
Speaker 1: I think it's the right way looking at it. You
Speaker 1: can't hundreds of people go in, you know, like work.
Speaker 1: We know how hard films are to make, and the
Speaker 1: amount of work that does, the blood, sweat and tears,
Speaker 1: the time away from families, the creative energies, the sacrifice
Speaker 1: that go into making films from hundreds, literally hundreds of people,
Speaker 1: not just the actors, the set designers, the art department, costume,
Speaker 1: all those people who you know, script out of this
Speaker 1: hoses And I think if you were to delete various
Speaker 1: movies from history because of the actions of you know,
Speaker 1: a few seemingly really rotten apples. Then then we don't
Speaker 1: get to enjoy Christopher mcquarie's brilliant scripts and Bontia A
Speaker 1: Del Toro's you know, and Chas Pedliman series, you know,
Speaker 1: wonderful performance. And I think we need to be able
Speaker 1: to separate some of these art from the artists sometimes
Speaker 1: and celebrate movies because otherwise there's a lot of good
Speaker 1: bloody movies. And where do you draw the line as
Speaker 1: far as do you you know, is what crime level is?
Speaker 1: Is if we found that? And what where's the hierarchy
Speaker 1: as far as the film being made gets in the
Speaker 1: very murky territory. So we are proceeding with the usual
Speaker 1: suspects under those thoughts and guidelines. And we I never
Speaker 1: judge anyone who doesn't want to dance in Michael Jackson
Speaker 1: or watch a Woody Allen films. It's all up to
Speaker 1: the the individual's taste. Benjamin Hurley. Let's go to nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety five, Brian Stiker directed Christian mcquarie script starring of course,
Speaker 1: Gabrielle Byrne, Kevin Spacey, Chads Parlimentary, Benicia del Toro, Kevin Pollack,
Speaker 1: Stephen Baldwin, Susie Amos. It's a cracking cast and of course,
Speaker 1: big little shout out the Giovanni Esposito. Did you enjoy
Speaker 1: the usual suspects?
Speaker 4: Mostly yes, I think yes I did. I'm still processing.
Speaker 4: I can't give you a firm yees, but it's definitely
Speaker 4: not a no. I did enjoy it. I think my
Speaker 4: initial sort of reaction is that I thought I was
Speaker 4: going to enjoy it more.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so you've come and you said that you
Speaker 1: knew there was a twist. Were you trying to pre
Speaker 1: empt and predict that twist?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 4: I think, are we gonna are we gonna talk about
Speaker 4: the twist? I know we're jumping to the end of
Speaker 4: the film here, but.
Speaker 1: Usually usually we don't do that, but I think for
Speaker 1: this film, it's such a unique film that I think
Speaker 1: we we can jump to the end and work our
Speaker 1: way back. I think it's almost the best way to
Speaker 1: discuss this film. So I will just say, if you
Speaker 1: have not seen this film, and I surprisingly ben I
Speaker 1: get a lot of people saying to me that they
Speaker 1: often just listen to the podcast based on the guest
Speaker 1: or the movie. Even in the movie, they haven't seen
Speaker 1: the movie, and then they'll decide whether they watched a
Speaker 1: movie or not. If you're one of those people who
Speaker 1: have not seen The Usual Suspects, I encourage you. I
Speaker 1: implore you to stop now because it is one of
Speaker 1: the odd times, whether you love the film or not,
Speaker 1: that the end is one of the all time great endings,
Speaker 1: final few minutes, mind blowing twist that you if you
Speaker 1: if you know about it, it's just going to take
Speaker 1: away from your enjoyment of the movie. My wife asked
Speaker 1: me this morning. She said, she said, what movie you're doing.
Speaker 1: I said, I'm doing Usual Suspects with Ben And she
Speaker 1: said that's a that's a really good movie. And she goes,
Speaker 1: what was it about again? And so I proceeded to
Speaker 1: tell her and take her through the entire movie, and
Speaker 1: then she goes, actually, I don't think I have seen
Speaker 1: that one. You could have stopped me before I got
Speaker 1: to the twist.
Speaker 4: So Bridget was going, so, there's around these people that
Speaker 4: chase tornadoes around the country, And.
Speaker 2: Is that what you thought?
Speaker 1: No, it's not not at all, So okay, so hopefully
Speaker 1: that they've tuned out now, so let's jump to the twist.
Speaker 1: Did you at any point you kind of guess it
Speaker 1: or did you see it coming?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: Not really.
Speaker 4: What I'll say which surprised me is it's a double
Speaker 4: twist because the first twist is that kaisas say, is
Speaker 4: Gabriel Burne. And I was like, I was pretty impressed
Speaker 4: by that. I didn't I didn't really see that coming.
Speaker 4: And then I went, oh, that must be the twist.
Speaker 4: And then they double twisted me and it was not
Speaker 4: Gabriel Burne at all.
Speaker 2: It was Kevin Spacey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and how did you? I feel like it is
Speaker 1: so brilliant when that mug falls to the ground and
Speaker 1: Kabayashi is the brand of the coffee mug. I actually
Speaker 1: remember being in the cinema and the whole senators going
Speaker 1: what like it was just one of those cinematic moments,
Speaker 1: and I I, what was your reaction?
Speaker 4: My reaction was, well, that makes sense now that he's
Speaker 4: made that up, because I could not work out what
Speaker 4: Pete Postlethwaite was doing with his accent, some potential coloring
Speaker 4: of skin, coloring, references to Pakistan, and then he's got
Speaker 4: a Japanese surname. I'm like, none of this adds up,
Speaker 4: I don't know what's going on with his character, and
Speaker 4: then and then it's revealed that he's that that verbal's
Speaker 4: just making this stuff up due to things he's noticing
Speaker 4: around the room. Allah, Missus Doubtfire, That's exactly what I
Speaker 4: also thought. That's what happens in Missus Doubtfire where Robin
Speaker 4: Williams calls up and he says, and he puts on
Speaker 4: the voice and he said, what's your name? And he
Speaker 4: looks at the paper and he gets the two words
Speaker 4: doubt and fire and he puts them together. So those
Speaker 4: are the thoughts I got. I was like, well, just
Speaker 4: like Missus Doubtfire.
Speaker 1: I've never made the Doubt Fire connection. I have to say,
Speaker 1: well played, mister Hurley. That was one of my favorite films.
Speaker 1: It's been ruined because it's basically just Missus Doubt Fire.
Speaker 1: This podcast was a terrible idea. Whose idea? Whose idea
Speaker 1: was this? I mean, let's address let's address Pete possible Weight.
Speaker 1: I love Pete Postilweight sadly no longer with us. He
Speaker 1: is gives one of the great performances of my of
Speaker 1: my my one of my favorite films, In the Name
Speaker 1: of the Father, where he plays a white Irishman, which
Speaker 1: I believe that's what he is. But in this film, yes,
Speaker 1: there's there's a there's a some tanning going on, and
Speaker 1: he's supposedly I think Pakistani, although I wasn't sure if
Speaker 1: I caught that they referred to him as a limey,
Speaker 1: so I'm not sure if he was basically Irish or
Speaker 1: Pakistan or But but what I think, what I think
Speaker 1: potentially is this is kind of maybe an almost a
Speaker 1: nod to verbal's kind of retailing and kind of you know,
Speaker 1: maybe China. There's there's some weird things going on in
Speaker 1: the storytelling. Like there's a point where, if you remember
Speaker 1: at the start the lineup Benicia del Toorous character Fence,
Speaker 1: there is wearing this kind of like white sorry, a
Speaker 1: red seventies shirt with like the big lapels, and that's
Speaker 1: he's got a certain look going on. When Kobayashi actually
Speaker 1: visits him in that pool room, Gabrielle Burns character Keaton
Speaker 1: is wearing that shirt. So I think there are these
Speaker 1: little things along the way that they drop the kind
Speaker 1: of because basically what verbal kent is is that what
Speaker 1: we call an unreliable narrator, where you know, when Morgan
Speaker 1: Freeman narrates the Georgshak Redemption, we have no reason to
Speaker 1: disbelieve him. Yah. And and when when Henry Hill does
Speaker 1: it in Good Fellas, you know, there's maybe maybe more
Speaker 1: reasons to maybe not be you know, one hundred percent
Speaker 1: believing what he's saying, but we tend, we tend to
Speaker 1: go along with it. With this one, we don't. He's
Speaker 1: revealed at least to be an unreliable narrator where we
Speaker 1: don't quite believe what he is, what he's telling us,
Speaker 1: which is it's a great device because we get used
Speaker 1: to just believing the voiceover this the voiceovers are kind
Speaker 1: of been being developed to be this kind of godly
Speaker 1: kind of vice device to to inform us what is
Speaker 1: absolutely fact in movies, and for occasionally when they can
Speaker 1: slip in an unreliable narrator under our you know, under
Speaker 1: our noses. It's it's a very powerful thing. So I
Speaker 1: think Ashi potentially because he's got he's got it's played
Speaker 1: by like an Irish you're an English act I think
Speaker 1: he's Irish, which has got a more behind the scenes stuff.
Speaker 1: But he's Pakistani, or at least appears to be Pakistani,
Speaker 1: and he's but he's got a Japanese name. So I
Speaker 1: feel like there's this is weird amalgamation of things that
Speaker 1: are just being made up in Berbel's mind. Obviously.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting to talk about the narration the voiceover
Speaker 4: because it was really popular in the nineties with a
Speaker 4: lot of the films that we've just mentioned already in
Speaker 4: this podcast. The Fight Club is another one with the narrator.
Speaker 4: And then do you ever seen that movie adaptation and
Speaker 4: with Necklace Cage And he's learning to do screenwriting, and
Speaker 4: there's a line in that that always rings around my
Speaker 4: head whenever there's a narrator and he's learning to do screenwriting,
Speaker 4: and he says that it's the laziest way to tell
Speaker 4: a story. And I don't know if I agree with that,
Speaker 4: but I always think of that every time there's a narrader.
Speaker 1: No, it's a very it's a very big theory in
Speaker 1: you know screenwriting that it's a very lazy thing to
Speaker 1: do to do voiceover. Now, I think there's ways of
Speaker 1: doing it where it's it can be lazy, because the
Speaker 1: whole one of the big you know rules of screenwriting
Speaker 1: is show, don't tell, you know, you know, don't just
Speaker 1: have characters exposition and dispewing dialogue when you can actually
Speaker 1: show somebody something, you know. It's like we we viewed
Speaker 1: the movie Sideways recently, which is one of my favorite films,
Speaker 1: again a perfect film, and the opening of that, you know,
Speaker 1: it's almost a montage with poor GM Marty running late
Speaker 1: to Thomas Haden churches and that if you look at that,
Speaker 1: that's all showing and not telling. You know, we we
Speaker 1: know everything about Paul GM Marty's character by those few
Speaker 1: scenes we see in the first two or three minutes
Speaker 1: of Sideways. So that's a really clever way of of
Speaker 1: showing it not telling. So I think with this stary
Speaker 1: it works because he's an unreliable narrator and it's it's
Speaker 1: designed to send us astray. I think, yeah, you can
Speaker 1: argue Shawshank works because it's it's Morgan fucking Freeman. That's
Speaker 1: why it works. And it's just it's it's quite it's
Speaker 1: quite beautiful. And the other really good voiceover I think
Speaker 1: is Henry Healing and good Fellas. I think that's a
Speaker 1: that's a really good voiceover.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you're right about Morgan Freeman. There's a
Speaker 4: word that we use in New Zealand for the comes
Speaker 4: from Mary called mana, and it basically means gravitas as
Speaker 4: probably the best way to sort of say that. And
Speaker 4: Morgan Freeman's voice has so much manna that you just
Speaker 4: trust it to tell you anything, wouldn't you, like, you're
Speaker 4: not going to go nah?
Speaker 2: The guys full of it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean people sat through like a two hour
Speaker 1: film about penguins just Morgan Freeman was narrating it. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's I'm okay to watch if you a few memes
Speaker 1: about p winspit with that Footbagan Freeman's voice over in
Speaker 1: there and I'm there for the whole one hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty minutes. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: Well let's start. Let's because have you ever seen that
Speaker 2: of what's his name?
Speaker 4: The bitter that come a beit so he can't say
Speaker 4: come abat, Oh man, it's too good.
Speaker 2: Quenguin. I think he does.
Speaker 1: At one point we actually we actually played it on
Speaker 1: this on this podcast once. It was hilarious. Okay, we
Speaker 1: we revealed the twist and we can come back to that.
Speaker 1: We can come back to that again. We'll work our
Speaker 1: way back towards it. But what did you so now
Speaker 1: that you go back to the start, and let's talk
Speaker 1: about the start. You said, you said you try to
Speaker 1: watch this film before a few times and had struggled
Speaker 1: to get through the first ten or fifteen minutes. That
Speaker 1: surprises me. Actually, I quite like the start here. But
Speaker 1: tell me why.
Speaker 4: Well, my first impression the very first scene is, and
Speaker 4: again it seems to be something that happened a lot
Speaker 4: in the nineties, was you play, you play the last
Speaker 4: scene or close to the end of the narrative first,
Speaker 4: and then everything's basically told in flashback, right, So you
Speaker 4: see that the last scene first, or towards the end
Speaker 4: of the film first. There's no doubt in your mind
Speaker 4: at that point what you're watching because it's got every
Speaker 4: film noir trick used, you know, it's got faces lit
Speaker 4: by matches, it's you know, very smoking heavy. That's the
Speaker 4: thing I'd say about this film is that it wouldn't
Speaker 4: really matter what happened to any of these characters because
Speaker 4: they're all going to die of some sort of lung situation.
Speaker 4: In ten to fifteen years, I've never seen so much
Speaker 4: smoking in a film.
Speaker 1: It's funny, actually, how Smoky's gone out like I remember
Speaker 1: we made the movie I Love You Too. That one
Speaker 1: of the directions from Village where like please know smoking,
Speaker 1: And we actually had a scene where my cat was
Speaker 1: going to smoke, but then I was going to put
Speaker 1: it that the joke was that I was I don't
Speaker 1: give it, taking up smoking that morning, but I was
Speaker 1: already quitting. And that was the only reason we were
Speaker 1: allowed to show a cigarette. So in Australia, the usual
Speaker 1: suspects probably wouldn't have been made.
Speaker 4: No true, it's so anyway you see this very kind
Speaker 4: of film noire opening, I think the next then the
Speaker 4: next scene is the is the lineup?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 4: I enjoyed the lineup. The lineup is great. The clip
Speaker 4: you just played before that is all great. I think
Speaker 4: it's the sort of the next set of ten minutes
Speaker 4: that I struggle with. There's so much exposition. There's so
Speaker 4: many names that are thrown at you. You're not sure
Speaker 4: who's who, You're not sure who's going to be important.
Speaker 4: There's the two cops chairs Palm and Terry, Who's got
Speaker 4: arguably the most obvious hair piece I've ever seen in
Speaker 4: films without it being ag like that that is that
Speaker 4: is a rug that is a rug. And the other
Speaker 4: guy whose name I don't know, but he's great. He's
Speaker 4: always a cop. He's a cop and everything. He's fantastic
Speaker 4: actually thinking out shines pilmonary, to be honest. So there's
Speaker 4: a lot of there's just a lot of exposition in
Speaker 4: the first difference.
Speaker 1: That is Gene Carlo Espanito, who he's like such a
Speaker 1: brilliant actor and if you've been watching, if you Breaking Bad,
Speaker 1: he's like, you know, the villain in Breaking Bad is
Speaker 1: the villain in the Mandalorian. He's He's also in a
Speaker 1: great series called Godfather of Godfather of Harlem, and he's
Speaker 1: he's he's great in that he's I saw him in
Speaker 1: a movie like not long before I think Usual Suspects.
Speaker 1: It was around a time at least called Fresh and
Speaker 1: it was a great little film that nobody I've ever
Speaker 1: spoken to us seen that film, but it's a great
Speaker 1: little film called Fresh. And he was great in that movie,
Speaker 1: and I always remembered him, and I think this was
Speaker 1: the next thing I saw him in, and he's like,
Speaker 1: this guy's great. And then he's had this career kind
Speaker 1: of I'm sure he's been like a really solid working actor,
Speaker 1: but I'm loving him getting these opportunities recently and you know,
Speaker 1: and nailing it. He is awesome. I love him. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: he got these cops that. I do agree that there
Speaker 1: are a lot of names, not just that the five
Speaker 1: characters to get the names, but also you know, the
Speaker 1: Turkish names, the and the and new names that get
Speaker 1: get thrown up all the time. I think it is
Speaker 1: then trying to distract us, but I think they are
Speaker 1: playing a bit of a game of those you know,
Speaker 1: cups under the balls and w moving the cups around.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean, I wrote some notes and one of my
Speaker 4: first notes is McManus chustion Mark. So I don't know
Speaker 4: if Steven Bulmer's character it was was.
Speaker 2: Modeled on Rove. I mean very similar, very similar.
Speaker 1: And weirdly, actually, Ben every morning when I rocked up
Speaker 1: to do Rove Live wrote the first thing Ray would
Speaker 1: say to me was give me a fucking kisy, fucking cocksucker.
Speaker 4: There's that. By the way, I think it's the of
Speaker 4: all the films I've ever seen, it's probably got the
Speaker 4: highest cocksuck account. It's not an insult that is used,
Speaker 4: and probably for good reasons, very good reasons. But there's
Speaker 4: a lot of of that throwing about, not just in
Speaker 4: that scene, but in other scenes as well. It's pretty casual.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a casual What did you I mean?
Speaker 1: Is it a kind of movie that you would go
Speaker 1: back and watch again because it is one of the
Speaker 1: odds I think out of other films, but I think
Speaker 1: twist films are generally great to watch a second time
Speaker 1: because you can watch it again and you know, see
Speaker 1: the things, you know, little easter eggs perhaps you missed.
Speaker 1: Do you think on a second viewing your opinion would change?
Speaker 1: Mure it would it be boosted?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it definitely would because there's look what
Speaker 4: you just said before about the unreliable narrator. That's really
Speaker 4: interesting and I hadn't really thought about that and how
Speaker 4: these little details that'll be mixed or changed around to
Speaker 4: give you kind of clues. Of course you wouldn't pick
Speaker 4: them up as clues necessarily, but if you go back
Speaker 4: and watch them a second time, yeah, those will really
Speaker 4: pay off. It is it is a film that once
Speaker 4: you get through that for me anyway, that's for the
Speaker 4: sort of first fifteen minutes and you are locked into
Speaker 4: the plot, it really is rewarding and not just the twist,
Speaker 4: but it does. Yeah, it just it does build properly.
Speaker 4: I was also going to say, even though that opening
Speaker 4: scene is so sort of classic noir, you know, which
Speaker 4: is a very old genre of film, they do drag
Speaker 4: it into the nineties with one very very subtle thing
Speaker 4: sideways gun. They use the sideways gun. Now, I'd never
Speaker 4: seen sideways gun are used until pulp fiction, right, and
Speaker 4: then suddenly it was everywhere. Everywhere it was and apparently
Speaker 4: I've never shot a gun, but according to gun people,
Speaker 4: it's very inaccurate and you shouldn't.
Speaker 2: It's not how you should a gun. It's just not
Speaker 2: how it's designed.
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's it's execution style, isn't it. So I guess,
Speaker 1: I guess you are trying to get close. But you're right.
Speaker 1: So sideways guns came into their own it's probably gone
Speaker 1: away a little bit now. Perhaps it's a bit like
Speaker 1: when when in the odd War films where they used
Speaker 1: to stray away their guns they go bang bang bang,
Speaker 1: throw away their gun.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I used to like a bit of that as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the things I love about the opening scene
Speaker 1: is the the slow, the slow move into those ropes
Speaker 1: on the dock that we suspect somebody is there behind
Speaker 1: watching and then as the film progresses, we assume it's
Speaker 1: a it's verbal verbal Kent. It's what I love about
Speaker 1: that is I've seen this film a lot, and I
Speaker 1: always kind of look into it to see if I
Speaker 1: can spot him, even though you know, now I know
Speaker 1: that he's he's not there, but I used like I
Speaker 1: used to think maybe maybe he's like either there from
Speaker 1: a you know, just the actor. I can I can
Speaker 1: see actually the actor kind of standing there, or maybe
Speaker 1: he's there at the beginning of the film but not
Speaker 1: when they go back to it at the end. But
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's beautify a beautifully crafted shot.
Speaker 1: They did get Kevin space you just stop. You may
Speaker 1: remember as he walks when we see him later on
Speaker 1: walking into that shot, there's some tires there and he
Speaker 1: basically stopped. It was told to stop behind the tires,
Speaker 1: and he's basically hiding behind the tires, so he doesn't
Speaker 1: because it's all one shot. And but I think that
Speaker 1: I remember for me thinking, Okay, what the fuck are
Speaker 1: this erupts about what's what was supposed to be there,
Speaker 1: and that That was a bit of a hook for
Speaker 1: me when I first saw it.
Speaker 4: So can I tell you I watched this and this
Speaker 4: is probably sacril, but I watched it on an iPad
Speaker 4: in bed last night, and when that heavened, I put
Speaker 4: the brightness up because I thought I was missing something.
Speaker 2: I was like, well, why are they shooting these ropes?
Speaker 2: Is this something in there? I should be saying, But no,
Speaker 2: it's just ropes.
Speaker 1: In the end, it's just ropes. This is awesome. It's uh,
Speaker 1: that's awesome. Even even when he even when he pisses
Speaker 1: the flames out like it is a heavy it's a
Speaker 1: heavy flow. If it's a very, it's a very, it's
Speaker 1: it's a good stream. I reckon at my age now
Speaker 1: I'm forty seven, I think it would have been evaporated
Speaker 1: by the time would have got down there. To be honest,
Speaker 1: it's much.
Speaker 6: More like, yeah, it's actually quite refreshing, the vegetables and
Speaker 6: the clima nugget.
Speaker 1: But weirdly, weirdly, not only does it say the purpose
Speaker 1: of actually distinguishing the flames, there is actually like a
Speaker 1: reference point where he talks about when he was a
Speaker 1: kid and he gets dehydrated, he gets really snotty and
Speaker 1: he gets he gets really thick piss. It's like even
Speaker 1: that even that there is a payoff for the thick piss.
Speaker 4: It's very visceral. Yeah, I hadn't thought about that, but
Speaker 4: that's that's very true. Yeah, he's got a healthy prostate.
Speaker 4: He might have a club foot, but he's got a
Speaker 4: healthy prostate.
Speaker 1: But but does he Okay, you're watch it in his iPad,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure better the film. The other thing that
Speaker 1: you may have missed, I know I missed it the
Speaker 1: first few times I saw this film was that when
Speaker 1: he collects those things on the way out. Do you
Speaker 1: remember what he collects on the way off the boat? No?
Speaker 1: When so when he's released from jail right at the
Speaker 1: end and he picks up you know when you when
Speaker 1: you get arrested, you they take your belongings off you,
Speaker 1: and then you you know, gold watch, gold lighter, and
Speaker 1: some cigarettes. And if you remember, you see all those
Speaker 1: things in that opening scene, Yeah, because you have, he
Speaker 1: mastered a cigarette. He likes a cigarette. And then later
Speaker 1: I note reveals his face, which I love the reaction
Speaker 1: by the way of Gabriel Boer when he sees it,
Speaker 1: you know, which is you know, is like you can't
Speaker 1: believe it, but he kind of is almost like tip
Speaker 1: of the hat to you mate, yep, yeah you got me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah.
Speaker 4: See, that's that's the stuff I'll go back and watch
Speaker 4: it again for because I didn't pick that up.
Speaker 2: That's that's great.
Speaker 4: But I did actually wonder at the time was this
Speaker 4: scene here and picking up his gear? I didn't really
Speaker 4: get it, but now it makes sense now.
Speaker 1: Well then because also that you have McManus who comes
Speaker 1: out when he dies and he just says the strangest thing,
Speaker 1: which is actually what he says. He doesn't say that,
Speaker 1: he says the strangest thing, and which, to be honest,
Speaker 1: he would be more helpful if he had have said
Speaker 1: verbal ken is kinds of so so that would have
Speaker 1: been more helpful. Just get to the point.
Speaker 4: So this is the thing I after I watched it,
Speaker 4: I did look up the Roger Ebert review because he
Speaker 4: hated it and.
Speaker 2: The way he criticized it.
Speaker 4: The way he criticized it was a he couldn't follow
Speaker 4: the plot, which if you read a lot of ebit reviews,
Speaker 4: that's a lot of his criticism of films, which starts
Speaker 4: to make me think he watched too many films, and
Speaker 4: that might be his issue rather than the film. But
Speaker 4: he sort of pointed sort of logic holes in it
Speaker 4: like that, and you wouldn't say that, and you wouldn't
Speaker 4: say this. And I don't think it's that film. I
Speaker 4: don't think it's that based in reality. And yeah, I
Speaker 4: think right from the start you realize, you know, it's
Speaker 4: a film noir. It's it's like a western that it
Speaker 4: exists within certain kind of stylistic parameters. It is dramatic,
Speaker 4: it is theatrical, it is slightly over the top, and
Speaker 4: those kind of oh a person wouldn't do X and
Speaker 4: Y situation criticisms are not really valid.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely it has been how one of these more
Speaker 1: infamous reviews Roger Debritt. But let's ever listen, let's ever
Speaker 1: listen to we spoke before at paid possible, why, let's
Speaker 1: have listened to him in action as he approaches the
Speaker 1: gang and makes them an offer.
Speaker 7: Which brings us to mister Kint. Nine months ago, one
Speaker 7: of mister Sose's less than intelligent couriers was taken in
Speaker 7: a complicated confidence scan by a cripple. He was relieved
Speaker 7: of sixty two thousand dollars. Now, it has taken us
Speaker 7: some time to find you. Our intention was to approach
Speaker 7: you after your apprehension in New York.
Speaker 3: You set up the line up.
Speaker 7: Yes, you are not to be released until I had
Speaker 7: come to see you. It seems mister Keaton's attorney, Miss Finneran,
Speaker 7: was a little too effective in expediting his release. Holding
Speaker 7: the rest of you became a moot point.
Speaker 2: What about Redfoot?
Speaker 7: Mister Redfoot knew nothing. Mister Jose rarely works with the
Speaker 7: same people for very long, and they never know who
Speaker 7: they're working for. One cannot be betrayed if one has
Speaker 7: no people. So why I'm telling you because you have
Speaker 7: stolen from mister So mister fensteron all of you that
Speaker 7: you did not know you stole from him is the
Speaker 7: only reason you are still alive.
Speaker 2: He feels you all him. He will repay your debt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I mean we were already spoken about the
Speaker 1: slight weirdness of the performance and the accents in the
Speaker 1: all of that. He does then proceed to give him
Speaker 1: a little easter egg. He does proceed to give him
Speaker 1: the envelopes in the order in which they are killed.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, good, Yeah, that's been a forewarning. Did
Speaker 1: you what did you make of the gang or did
Speaker 1: you have a did you have a favorite one who
Speaker 1: you liked or one that he particularly didn't like?
Speaker 4: Uh well, okay, so normally Alec Baldwin that I think
Speaker 4: was I don't know.
Speaker 2: Which one he is? Is it Stephen.
Speaker 4: Stephen, yes, Stephen? Yeah, okay, yeah, so is he? I
Speaker 4: never know which non Aleck. There're all just one entity
Speaker 4: to me, non Alec Baldwin's there's but I know that
Speaker 4: they are different people, and I know in the room,
Speaker 4: No exactly, these are great, Just just a little aside.
Speaker 4: Do you remember the plot in the Sopranos where Christopher
Speaker 4: is making against movie and he asks Sir Ben Kingsley
Speaker 4: to be in it. Yeah, and he turns it down,
Speaker 4: and then they get they make the movie anyway, and
Speaker 4: they get a non Alec Baldwin. I don't think it's Stephen,
Speaker 4: it's another non Alec Baldwin to do it.
Speaker 8: And he goes, yeah, he's fucking better anyway, that's great,
Speaker 8: that's he's going to keep moving on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we wanted William Bordwind anyway over over
Speaker 1: so Ben Kingsley.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but what I love about it is that is it?
Speaker 2: William Baldwin? Is it? Yeah, so William Baldwin. He's in,
Speaker 2: He's in it. He's in like the Sopranos.
Speaker 4: So he agreed to be the gag of oh we
Speaker 4: really got a shitty actor instead of Sir Ben Kingsley.
Speaker 2: Presumably he needed the work.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 2: I loved it, loved it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's so over the top of Rove McManus and.
Speaker 2: I love Kate.
Speaker 4: I love Kevin Pollock like a few good Men's one
Speaker 4: of my favorite films. He's so good in that. I've
Speaker 4: been watching The Marvelous Missus Maisel. I think it's one
Speaker 4: of the best TV shows to come out in recent years.
Speaker 4: He's so good in that. He's good in this, but
Speaker 4: it's like the least rounded character of all of the gang.
Speaker 4: So I think my favorite. And it's such a great
Speaker 4: decision to make. To be unintelligible, it's Benicio de Toro.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was his decision. He wasn't written like that.
Speaker 1: Apparently it was kind of written for more like a
Speaker 1: Harry Dean Stanton type, and Benicia del Toro had this
Speaker 1: idea and they went with it, and they leant into
Speaker 1: it to the point where often a lot of the
Speaker 1: things he is saying, the actors was encouraged to just
Speaker 1: add lib around, but a bit to the point where
Speaker 1: when they're in the cell and he said he says, like,
Speaker 1: who saw the truck? But he says it, you know,
Speaker 1: it's unintelligible, and Pollack actually says, what was that or
Speaker 1: what did you say? And he repeats it, and that
Speaker 1: was just Pollack literally not understanding what he said. So
Speaker 1: I think it's great.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what's weird about the Gang is that
Speaker 4: Stephen Baldwin, his character dies and it's like they don't
Speaker 4: show it. It's such a strange I guess editing choice
Speaker 4: that they must have filmed that scene. They do not
Speaker 4: show how he gets killed, and they just did just
Speaker 4: on the beach with his dead body and he's like
Speaker 4: a major character and you know, it's a pretty important
Speaker 4: plot point. But yeah, it's just a strange decision to
Speaker 4: make to not show it.
Speaker 1: It is always fascinating when a death of a you know,
Speaker 1: primary character isn't shown. Although it's always it's weirder when like,
Speaker 1: at least we saw his last words. I feel like
Speaker 1: if if a character dies and they're just dead on
Speaker 1: an arrival if you like. As far as the camera,
Speaker 1: you know, it's weird, but we do see him, his
Speaker 1: last words being you know, the strangest thing, and then
Speaker 1: he dies. Like there's a lot of controversy in the
Speaker 1: I think was it last Jedi Rise of Skywalker when
Speaker 1: Admiral Akbar was was murdered, was killed off screen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this kind of it was still a bit of a
Speaker 1: fringe character, but it became it like a you know,
Speaker 1: a cult hero if you like, you know, and he
Speaker 1: was killed off and we just learnt about it. It's oh,
Speaker 1: by the way, Admiral Akbar is dead. It's like, hang on.
Speaker 4: Not quite the same outpouring of grief when Jarjar died, obviously,
Speaker 4: but no, I've actually got something wrong. It's not it's
Speaker 4: not it's not Stephen Baldwin that's dead on the beach,
Speaker 4: is it. It's it's Finster, It's it's Benicio de Toro.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I reckon, I reckon he was probably
Speaker 1: not main enough at that stage. I think the shock
Speaker 1: of it kind of worked, like I wasn't expecting him
Speaker 1: to and even that die just yet I thought they
Speaker 1: would probably you know, there'll be some kind of heightst
Speaker 1: or something, you know, like they know that I thought that, yeah,
Speaker 1: there was Yeah, I wasn't ready for that, to be honest.
Speaker 1: And and but I know you mean, it is weird
Speaker 1: when you see somebody, yeah they're dead, that they die
Speaker 1: off camera and we don't get to spend a last
Speaker 1: moment with them. But he was certainly he was certainly
Speaker 1: the standout for me, Like because I'd never seen him before.
Speaker 1: This is the first time I've ever seen beneath you
Speaker 1: Adel Toro, Like you probably you're probably coming to this
Speaker 1: seeing many of his films over the years, So I
Speaker 1: was really curious as like, oh, well, I want to
Speaker 1: this actor with the speech impediment. I really wonder what
Speaker 1: his what his next role is going to be, Like
Speaker 1: you know what, I must say, this also is a
Speaker 1: film in a way about the invisibility of people who
Speaker 1: have disability, like this is there is like both from
Speaker 1: I think from Chas Pedimentary's character's point of view, Dave Kuyong,
Speaker 1: but also the audience. I think we kind of don't
Speaker 1: expect him to be capable of of being the guy,
Speaker 1: if you know what I mean. And and and it's
Speaker 1: set up and we are we are forced into that well,
Speaker 1: we are guided into that corner by Acousta macquarie's script.
Speaker 1: But there's there's constant, you know, like references to him
Speaker 1: not being good enough and stupid, both both by himself
Speaker 1: putting himself down and also by by Dave Koyong, and
Speaker 1: even the way that he is treated by the other
Speaker 1: the other criminals. You know, Keaton punches him in the
Speaker 1: gut and you know, he says he's gonna be pissing
Speaker 1: blood for a week and they have a laugh and
Speaker 1: all that. But it's basically we don't expect him to
Speaker 1: be capable, you know at all?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it's part of his rose, isn't it?
Speaker 2: As the.
Speaker 4: Is the disability. This is not a word they used once.
Speaker 4: They use They use crepple a lot. I'm not sure
Speaker 4: that word is used widely anymore.
Speaker 1: Yes, And there's a few words. There's a few words
Speaker 1: that have maybe you don't see on the big screen
Speaker 1: anymore for the better, I think. But what do you
Speaker 1: what do you think of Dean Keaton? So did you
Speaker 1: believe he was what did you believe he was? Kinds
Speaker 1: of sociated? I guess also, And did you believe he
Speaker 1: was if not kas of did you believe he was
Speaker 1: a good guy?
Speaker 4: I genuinely was taken on the ride that he had reformed.
Speaker 4: So it was when when it's first revealed that he's
Speaker 4: kinds of Sosa, which of course he isn't, I went,
Speaker 4: I thought that was as I said before, I thought
Speaker 4: that was the twist because I did go along with
Speaker 4: the ride that he was reformed and doing it all
Speaker 4: for love of the one female character in the entire
Speaker 4: film who gets three lines.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it's a male heavy cast. Absolutely Well, let's
Speaker 1: let's have a listen to the way he the way
Speaker 1: his master plan was sold by agent Dave Kyong to
Speaker 1: Verbal Kim.
Speaker 9: She was found yesterday at a hotel in Pennsylvania, shut
Speaker 9: twice in their head?
Speaker 3: What do you think about Keaton now?
Speaker 2: Verbal?
Speaker 10: He used all of you to get him on that board.
Speaker 10: He couldn't get on alone.
Speaker 9: He had to pull the trigger himself to make sure
Speaker 9: he got his man, the one man that could identify him.
Speaker 2: This is all bullshit.
Speaker 10: You said you saw him die or did you you
Speaker 10: had to hide when you first heard the police, cause
Speaker 10: you said you heard this shot before the fire, but
Speaker 10: you didn't see him die.
Speaker 1: I knew him.
Speaker 3: He would never He programmed you.
Speaker 1: He programmed you to tell us just what he wanted
Speaker 1: you to.
Speaker 2: He knew we were close.
Speaker 9: You said it yourself. Where was the political pressure coming from?
Speaker 3: Why were you being protected? It was Keaton?
Speaker 10: Immunity was your reward?
Speaker 2: Why not?
Speaker 1: Fester and mcmanister. Hockney White me, I'm stupid, I'm a cripple.
Speaker 9: Why ma, Because you're a crippled verbal because you're stupid,
Speaker 9: because you're weaker than them.
Speaker 10: If he's dead, if what you say is true, then
Speaker 10: it won't matter.
Speaker 9: It was his idea to hit the taxi service, and
Speaker 9: he wasn't it.
Speaker 2: Come on, tell me the truth.
Speaker 1: When we followed him from the.
Speaker 2: I didn't know. I saw him die.
Speaker 1: I believe his dado right. So there you go. Not
Speaker 1: only was she she had three lines, but she's also executed.
Speaker 1: And then we heard Dean Keaton's master plan. And it
Speaker 1: works so well that the fact that Dave Kong chas
Speaker 1: Bellervantery's character is so smarmy. And again you just heard
Speaker 1: because because you're weak, because you're stupid, that it actually
Speaker 1: it makes the ending even more satisfying. You know that
Speaker 1: he has he has beaten his little David Goliath battle
Speaker 1: going on that verbal has won.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I I've just realized that. I think this is
Speaker 4: another little easterig to go back and see. I thought
Speaker 4: during this scene where Kevin Spacey is pretending to cry,
Speaker 4: I I just wrote down best actor question mark because
Speaker 4: there was no tears coming out of his eyes at all,
Speaker 4: and I actually thought it was really it was not
Speaker 4: good acting. But as it turns out, he's acting acting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it'd be interesting to know whether the Kevin
Speaker 1: Spacey was trying to actually get a tear up or
Speaker 1: if he was doing And I suspect, you know, credit
Speaker 1: where credits due. He's very good at the acting. He
Speaker 1: probably knew it was. There's a there's a great little
Speaker 1: moment that you may have seen or you may have missed,
Speaker 1: but where Kuyong is behind him and he's talking about
Speaker 1: Dean Keaton and he's actually got a smirk on his
Speaker 1: face and as he comes around and he just as
Speaker 1: he as he moves into verbal Kin's periphery, he actually
Speaker 1: drops the smirk and becomes like so almost downtrodden again.
Speaker 1: So if you see that, I reckon that that tells
Speaker 1: us that he knows exactly what he's doing, and those
Speaker 1: probably that is him acting acting sad.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I'm going to go with too, because
Speaker 4: otherwise it was just a really bad performance in that scene.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I think you know, for all of his
Speaker 4: many faults given Spacey, it's the one thing he could do.
Speaker 2: It was the old acting.
Speaker 1: The old acting. He was very good. Let's what did
Speaker 1: you What did you make of the Kaiser? So say legend.
Speaker 1: Maybe let's say we'll go straight into it. Let's have
Speaker 1: a listen to the setting up of the legend, the myth,
Speaker 1: the spook story that he is Kaiser.
Speaker 5: So say, he kills their kids, he kills their wives,
Speaker 5: he kills their parents and their parents' friends. He burns
Speaker 5: down the houses they live in and the stores they
Speaker 5: work in. He kills people that are money and like that,
Speaker 5: he's gone underground. Nobody's ever seen him since he becomes
Speaker 5: a myth, a spookstory that criminals tell their kids at night,
Speaker 5: rat on your pop and Kaiser will get you, and
Speaker 5: no one ever really believes.
Speaker 2: Do you believe in him?
Speaker 5: Verbal Kidon always said, I don't believe in God, but
Speaker 5: I'm afraid of him. Well, I believe in God and
Speaker 5: the only thing that scares me is Kaiser.
Speaker 1: Did you buy into the scariness of the legend?
Speaker 4: I definitely did, And it reminded me of uh. I
Speaker 4: think his name is shockheaded Peter, which is this thing
Speaker 4: that they have in Scandinavia which is kind of like
Speaker 4: the anti Santa Claus and and and if you're you know,
Speaker 4: like good kids, good kids get like prisons from Santa Claus,
Speaker 4: and bad kids get shock into Peter, who comes and
Speaker 4: cuts their thumbs off if they suck them at the table.
Speaker 2: That's what it reminded me of.
Speaker 1: Is he also known as Black Peter.
Speaker 2: That's what it's called Black Peter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's been a copy actually going on there. It's
Speaker 1: a deeply weird custom over there, like the Scandinavians. We
Speaker 1: got some Danish cousins and sometimes they come over on
Speaker 1: my wife's side and they we play this game where
Speaker 1: you basically everybody that brings up presents and they're usually
Speaker 1: like they're kind of you know, low five gifts, you're
Speaker 1: nothing too extravagant, and a mix of gifts. I sometimes
Speaker 1: people buy this like wrap a tin of gravy and
Speaker 1: wrap it up and put it on the table, and
Speaker 1: other things will be more useful, more useful things, and
Speaker 1: you basically everyone crowds around a table and then you
Speaker 1: spin the dice and if you get six, you take
Speaker 1: a present and you start loning up presents. Everybody's spinning
Speaker 1: the dice and and then the second round, so you
Speaker 1: might end up with six presents and or you might
Speaker 1: end up with no presence. And then the next round
Speaker 1: is that you start you do the same thing, but
Speaker 1: the next you're just stealing presents, So you're basically stealing
Speaker 1: presents off people. And you see adults stealing off kids
Speaker 1: and it's like it's it's quite, it's really fun. But
Speaker 1: when your kids are younger, like quite your todd toddlers
Speaker 1: and having gifts stolen off them by their grandparents, it's
Speaker 1: like it's it's weird. They do things differently in Scandinavia.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is what happens when you don't see the
Speaker 4: sun for six months a year. You know you're inside.
Speaker 4: You've got to come up with something. And by the way,
Speaker 4: shock headed Peter, I've just been reminded and by Google.
Speaker 4: I believe it's the German version of black Peter.
Speaker 1: I imagine you got that from somewhere. Imagine that name
Speaker 1: didn't just lodge in your head out of nowhere, would
Speaker 1: have been with what I do love bet about that.
Speaker 1: The Kai legend is the idea that he has the
Speaker 1: will to do what other men worry, which is and
Speaker 1: so you know, graphically he comes home, his wife has
Speaker 1: been raped, and you know these kids are being basically
Speaker 1: held hostage, and he decides to shoot them the show
Speaker 1: and kill his own family to show his enemies what
Speaker 1: the will of the will that he has that they'll
Speaker 1: never have. I don't condone that sort of behavior. Let
Speaker 1: me just say this, we've got to do all ab
Speaker 1: our caveats caveats on this show. Yeah, it's just it's
Speaker 1: just behind the camera. There's some you know, full on stuff.
Speaker 1: Don't just don't do it.
Speaker 2: Don't do it, no, I mean sometimes they might need
Speaker 2: their bites though.
Speaker 1: What is amazing I think really clever about that later
Speaker 1: on is when they think they're about to take out
Speaker 1: Kabayashi and then he kind of flips it on them
Speaker 1: and says, do you mind before you kill me that
Speaker 1: I make it author Ev Gabrielle Burns's girlfriend, and then
Speaker 1: they realize he has a basically held hostage downstairs in
Speaker 1: a meeting, and then they take him down there and
Speaker 1: he kind of knows they're going to let him go,
Speaker 1: and he says to them, you know, I may only
Speaker 1: kill your uncle. I may only cars straight your nephew,
Speaker 1: you know, mister mc madison. And he goes through who
Speaker 1: is going to kill from their family members, and none
Speaker 1: of them, of course, would proceed under those under those circumstances,
Speaker 1: because they don't have the will that Kaiser sos has.
Speaker 1: It's a really nice and clever way of reminding you that, yes,
Speaker 1: these guys are bad guys. We've seen them do bad things,
Speaker 1: but they're not at the level of Kaiser sos No.
Speaker 4: And so this might be a dumb question, but is
Speaker 4: that true? So that story that verbal tells about Kaiser
Speaker 4: Sosa killing as his own family essentially the show how
Speaker 4: tough he is, is that true or is that just
Speaker 4: part of him pumping up his own legend.
Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing, because we have an unreliable narrator,
Speaker 1: we can discuss all of this because we don't really know.
Speaker 1: We don't really know if Kaiser Sosa is a real thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, he certainly doesn't have the bon Jovi locks
Speaker 1: and walking away from the flame that he did in
Speaker 1: one of those shots where we see him after he's
Speaker 1: burnt down. I thought he's been heavy handed to Kaiser Sos,
Speaker 1: I mean, burning down his enemies and their enemy families
Speaker 1: and their end of these family's friends, I thought was
Speaker 1: too much.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you've got some of the families, I reckon, Yeah,
Speaker 4: you've got someone who's just been around for a dinner
Speaker 4: party once. I mean, are they are they in danger?
Speaker 2: You know? How good of friends are we talking?
Speaker 1: I was in a neighborhood watch group, That's all it was.
Speaker 2: I used to play bridge with Janana.
Speaker 1: But the thing is we don't even know, so we
Speaker 1: don't know what's true and what's not. All we know
Speaker 1: is that Kaisa so say or verbal can I guess?
Speaker 1: Is Kaisa Sosa now whether whether he'd done all those things?
Speaker 1: We do not know. I mean, it seems weird to
Speaker 1: me that the police don't seem to be that Kaiser
Speaker 1: Sosa isn't high on the police's radar before this time,
Speaker 1: that he's killed all these people, even though it may
Speaker 1: have happened abroad, but it still wouldn't be on their radar.
Speaker 1: But we don't even know. To be honest, is Kabe.
Speaker 1: There's a theory that Kabayashi could be Kaija Sosa, that
Speaker 1: he was actually the one pulling all the strings. I think.
Speaker 1: I think Christopher Macquarie in his script kind of leads
Speaker 1: us to believe that it is definitely verbal who is
Speaker 1: Kaisassa though that's certainly what I take out of it.
Speaker 1: Like I said, whether all those other things happen, and
Speaker 1: that's it's been built up as a legend to kind
Speaker 1: of to help his you know, his empire, his criminal
Speaker 1: empire is up the debate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I get Yeah.
Speaker 4: So the theory is like, like, there's that theory that
Speaker 4: William Shakespeare was not a real man. It was just
Speaker 4: a collection of people who wrote place in the similar style,
Speaker 4: and that like towards the end, particularly of his career,
Speaker 4: it was all the students writing for him.
Speaker 2: So you think that's it.
Speaker 4: So Kayle's Assocai could be a collective just feeding into
Speaker 4: the idea of one one individual.
Speaker 1: Ben Hurley, are you coming on my podcast and suggesting
Speaker 1: that William Shakespeare was ghost written? I don't want to
Speaker 1: get sued. The opinions of my guests are not reflected
Speaker 1: by the opinions of this specific broadcast. Is Shakespeare Incorporated
Speaker 1: are listening? Do not please, do not sue?
Speaker 2: Right that?
Speaker 1: And Happy Birthday. Finally that I think you can you
Speaker 1: can make the admit that it is true. I think
Speaker 1: it's more likely that it actually has been a legend
Speaker 1: that has been fan flamed by verbal and whoever Pete
Speaker 1: poss the way it is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess that's the ongoing thing, isn't it. And
Speaker 4: I do like a movie that you know, leads leads
Speaker 4: a few questions at the end, and I'm knowing too
Speaker 4: many questions, but I do like those ones. And you
Speaker 4: know what I often do this. I watch a film,
Speaker 4: I enjoy it, I don't enjoy it whatever somewhere in
Speaker 4: the middle, and then if I find somebody who I
Speaker 4: can talk to with about it's the more I talk
Speaker 4: about it, the more I enjoy it. And that's what's
Speaker 4: happening right now.
Speaker 1: Well, this and this is what has happened quite a
Speaker 1: few times on this podcast has happened kind of recently
Speaker 1: with Josh Lawson and The Last Picture Show. It certainly
Speaker 1: happened in the early days with Limo and with Nail
Speaker 1: and I so and that's why I remind everybody that
Speaker 1: you are still processing this film. This is a film
Speaker 1: that I've probably seen twenty times and I love it.
Speaker 1: So I'm glad and I'm glad. I'm glad because and
Speaker 1: this is the beauty of doing this podcast, Ben, It's
Speaker 1: we have these dreams of you know, like we romanticize
Speaker 1: the idea of going to a movie and then with
Speaker 1: some friends and going to a bar afterwards and discussing
Speaker 1: the film, but that never actually happens. You know, as comedians,
Speaker 1: we often see movies by ourselves at eleven a m.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's absolutely right, And you know, sort of
Speaker 4: the plot holes or whatever, they're not really plot holes.
Speaker 4: The plot's pretty water tight, I guess. But the little
Speaker 4: criticisms that I read online of it, they don't seem
Speaker 4: to matter as much. My only bugbear is, you know,
Speaker 4: just to remind you if you haven't seen it in
Speaker 4: a while. One of the big ways of revealing that
Speaker 4: verbal Clint is Kuy's associay is through a police skitch
Speaker 4: artist that it's thing described his features through a badly
Speaker 4: burnt Hungarian man through a translator. Hungarian notoriously one of
Speaker 4: the most difficult and complex languages on Earth, and somehow
Speaker 4: they come up with a pretty good rendition of a
Speaker 4: rendering rather of Kevin Spacey. I'm not sure through that
Speaker 4: many filters you're going to get a really good picture.
Speaker 1: I agree, I believe. I believe it was actually in
Speaker 1: real life. It was actually sketched by arn Do as well,
Speaker 1: which show goes over there in New Zealand and also
Speaker 1: a great a great another good thumbs up for you know,
Speaker 1: old technology in movies because that facts machine like it
Speaker 1: just builds. It built that tension beautifully. That was an
Speaker 1: email or a text message, then verbal doesn't get away.
Speaker 4: Just I think that definitely the best excuse of effects
Speaker 4: machine n film. There should be there should be an
Speaker 4: award for it. It should be, you know, if not
Speaker 4: an oscar a golden globe, but it definitely wins there.
Speaker 1: It also is it's a it's a well crafted shot
Speaker 1: because you have Dave Kong running out and then it
Speaker 1: just pans down to the facts facts as it's coming
Speaker 1: out of the machine where where mister Ginlo Espinito is
Speaker 1: takes it. In fact, let's have a listen to the
Speaker 1: final scene before we get into some fun facts and
Speaker 1: the wrap. It is the final scene one of the
Speaker 1: great endings of a movie. The petty dropping moment is there.
Speaker 1: Let's just take it all in.
Speaker 9: If we creeping scumby that works the street for a
Speaker 9: living will know the name of verbal kills.
Speaker 1: The cripple.
Speaker 3: Did you see them?
Speaker 1: The cripple?
Speaker 2: Which where did he go?
Speaker 3: He went out there? I know you know something.
Speaker 2: I know you're not telling you say something.
Speaker 10: I'm smarter than you, and I'm going to find out
Speaker 10: what I want to know, whether you like it or not.
Speaker 1: Just explanation is never that you know what I'm getting?
Speaker 2: Come on, person, do you think.
Speaker 3: The street know archie? Criminal? Looks it all?
Speaker 2: Somebody with power? There was somebody who was capable Kaiser.
Speaker 5: It is close to getting caught and sticks his head
Speaker 5: out guys.
Speaker 9: Because you're stupid verbal because.
Speaker 1: I want to know the game, the whole. If he
Speaker 1: comes up for me.
Speaker 3: I'm sure, kidness, Dad, I can't th.
Speaker 2: First thing I learned on the job, you know what
Speaker 2: it was?
Speaker 3: How to spot a burner?
Speaker 5: Tell me you got the crippled there from New York.
Speaker 5: You mentioned kai who after that? My guess is you'll
Speaker 5: never hear from him again. The greatest trick the Devil
Speaker 5: ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist, and
Speaker 5: like that he's gone.
Speaker 1: I mean either picture perfect ending. In my book, that
Speaker 1: quote the greatest sutent the devil Everpool was givens the
Speaker 1: world he didn't exist. It's actually not an original lied
Speaker 1: by Christoper macquarie. Actually is a French poet or philosopher
Speaker 1: bother Leary or something. You know, I'm not across my
Speaker 1: French poets, and i won't pretend i am. That was
Speaker 1: a quote taken from from him. I mean, give us
Speaker 1: your top three French poets early.
Speaker 11: Come on, ah, Jimmy Pelle Fromage I just saved. My
Speaker 11: name is Cheese, so that my emperor than Frenches.
Speaker 1: So I asked you earlier about the penny drop moment
Speaker 1: when the coffee mag with Kobayashi on the bottom was revealed.
Speaker 1: What was your reaction when you saw the walk the
Speaker 1: limp kind of straightened up into a stride.
Speaker 4: I just want to take it back for a second,
Speaker 4: because he's a really beautiful bit of filmmaking in that.
Speaker 4: Because we've talked about the double twist, and I think
Speaker 4: the movie's over when they go right. So Gabriel Burne
Speaker 4: is kind ass say right and then the two cops
Speaker 4: just have a casual chat for about a minute about
Speaker 4: how messy his officers and oh, you should see my garage,
Speaker 4: and you kind of think, well, there's obviously is gonna
Speaker 4: be something else here, surely, But they kind of have
Speaker 4: this casual chat and then he drops the mug, and
Speaker 4: I just think it's a beautiful bit of filmmaking because
Speaker 4: it's it almost it's almost the way that they chat
Speaker 4: is almost unlike any other part of the film in
Speaker 4: how casual it is. And and so then when he
Speaker 4: drops the mug and there is the penny drop, it's
Speaker 4: even more dramatic. Yeah, I think I didn't see the
Speaker 4: I didn't even think about his disability disappearing. That was
Speaker 4: just an added little extra, you know, they revealed that
Speaker 4: it's him, and that's that's you know, it's a great twist.
Speaker 4: And then you know, and then he walked, he walks
Speaker 4: off a club foot, never been done before. Uh, and yeah,
Speaker 4: it's just it's just a lovely little but and then
Speaker 4: he gets in the car with Pete postle plate and
Speaker 4: it's slightly confusing. I had to go back and kind
Speaker 4: of uh step that one back a little bit.
Speaker 1: It would have been It would have been an instring
Speaker 1: choice if if like Pete Postlewait rocked up and he
Speaker 1: was he was wiping the makeup of with some cleanse wipes,
Speaker 1: it would have been a brave choice, I think. But
Speaker 1: I like what you said about I like what you
Speaker 1: said about the conversation. I how about his messy because
Speaker 1: it feels like, yeah, he says, I uhould see my garage,
Speaker 1: And it could have been another brave choice. Would have
Speaker 1: had them like throwing their heads back, laughing and end
Speaker 1: with like eighties montage. You know, it felt like that
Speaker 1: kind of moment. But I do love I do. I
Speaker 1: do love a moment where a movie convinces you it's
Speaker 1: this is it, it's done. We've had that fun and
Speaker 1: it's ended, and I think taking that time and then
Speaker 1: it just kind of ship. The cabin of shifts over,
Speaker 1: the chaz pedal, the tiery and then this slowly goes
Speaker 1: in and he as soon as he sees that quartet
Speaker 1: from Skokie, Illinois at the bottom of the court board,
Speaker 1: it's it's on, and then it's red Foot and then
Speaker 1: it's the the you know, the the obese person on
Speaker 1: on the you know, matching up with the Orca you
Speaker 1: know he was he was orco obese, you know, like
Speaker 1: it was that kind of and it's just it's on
Speaker 1: for young and old and and yeah, I I buddy
Speaker 1: love it. I think it's a it's awesome, mate. Some
Speaker 1: fun facts before we do finish up. Verbal in Turkish,
Speaker 1: sosey in Turkish means verbal and kaiser in German means
Speaker 1: means king. So our Turkish and German listeners may have
Speaker 1: figured this out before we did on first watch. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: apparently the when Redfoot they meet Redfoot in California and
Speaker 1: he flicks a cigarette and it gets bored with and
Speaker 1: right in the eye. That was supposed to hit his chest,
Speaker 1: but he missed and got him right in the eye,
Speaker 1: and they just they just kept that take. But that
Speaker 1: was an accident.
Speaker 4: It's the only it's the only casting choice that takes
Speaker 4: me out of the film. And Redfoot is the bad
Speaker 4: guy in the mask Jimmy carry the mask, and I went, oh,
Speaker 4: this is the bad guy from the mask. I haven't
Speaker 4: seen him many anything since nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 1: Well, he was obviously hot for a couple of years,
Speaker 1: because past ninety three, this is ninety five, he was
Speaker 1: doing all right shot for six million bucks over thirty
Speaker 1: five days. It's a pretty incredible, incredible effort. The title
Speaker 1: of the film is taken from Casablanca. There's a line,
Speaker 1: not quite a throwaway line, but one of the police officer,
Speaker 1: the main police officer in that film says, the Humphrey
Speaker 1: Bogart gather up the usual suspects, or round up the
Speaker 1: usual suspects. I think it is.
Speaker 4: So that's really interesting because it's a phrase that gets
Speaker 4: used a lot. Now it's the usual suspect, isn't it?
Speaker 4: And I always assumed it came from this film. And
Speaker 4: there's another phrase that people use a lot, sliding Doors,
Speaker 4: And you know, that's that's kind of not a particularly
Speaker 4: well known film necessarily, or it wasn't silly. It's not
Speaker 4: a not a classic, let's put it that way. But
Speaker 4: it's a phrase that's used all the time. And I
Speaker 4: always wonder which one predated which.
Speaker 1: I reckon the sliding Doors one was that was around,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't popularized. And then that's movie Sliding Doors,
Speaker 1: quite an underrated little kind of romantic comedy actually, and
Speaker 1: that kind of then gave us something to hang on
Speaker 1: to it. And sliding Doors became a Yeah, certainly was
Speaker 1: popularized I think after that movie, and I think Your
Speaker 1: Usual Suspects was definitely popularized after this movie. There's an
Speaker 1: issuing moment the start of the film when he's when
Speaker 1: before Keaton gets shot, where he asked for the time
Speaker 1: and he says, I think it's twelve thirty, and as
Speaker 1: we see and that that's in the film for two reasons.
Speaker 1: One the one show I think the show the gold Watch,
Speaker 1: because at times have no relevance. I remember when I
Speaker 1: first saw it, I was like, okay, twelve thirty, remember
Speaker 1: that twelve thirty, and then nothing really happened. But but
Speaker 1: one of things to see the gold Watch. The other
Speaker 1: reason it's there is they had another plot and they
Speaker 1: had shot this, but I cut it out where Keaton
Speaker 1: had also planned a bomb in the to go off
Speaker 1: at a certain a certain time, so he was asking
Speaker 1: for the time in relation to the bomb. So it
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily work for the same purpose, but it does work.
Speaker 1: You can imagine sometimes people want to know what time
Speaker 1: they're going to die, you know. And and also we
Speaker 1: get to see the gold Watch.
Speaker 2: Yes of course, yeah, okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: And finally, and this is I mean, I wish it
Speaker 1: was a more fun ef fact. But just to go
Speaker 1: back to those claims Kevin Spacey, this production actually is
Speaker 1: to see how it goes back potentially apparently. I think
Speaker 1: Pollack and Garbriel Byrne have confirmed this like it was.
Speaker 1: Production was actually shut down for two days because there
Speaker 1: was a complaints kind of a sexual harassment complaint made
Speaker 1: against Kevin Spacy. So great actor ship like.
Speaker 2: Yep, it seems that way bit of a shit bloke, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think so. I think so. Hey, mate, bloody hell,
Speaker 1: thanks for watching a movie for me and hanging out
Speaker 1: with me bloody good times.
Speaker 2: I've had an absolute ball.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much for making me watch this film
Speaker 4: finally and punch through those first fifteen minutes because it
Speaker 4: was rewarding and I've definitely, as I said before, enjoyed
Speaker 4: it more.
Speaker 2: The more I've talked to you about it.
Speaker 1: I love to hear that it's not necessarily needs to
Speaker 1: be needs to be the case, but I love to
Speaker 1: hear it. Mate. I can't wait to catch up with
Speaker 1: you in person again. It's been too long. Hopefully we
Speaker 1: get you over to OZ for maybe a few gigs together,
Speaker 1: or I'll get over to n Z. Or maybe we'll
Speaker 1: do both of those.
Speaker 4: Things, or we could maybe meet halfway in like Norfolk Island.
Speaker 1: Let's do that. There's a massive comedy circuit in Norfolk
Speaker 1: Island and the Hurley and Hellier show coming to you Northfolk.
Speaker 1: Let's announce it right now. It's happening, Hellier Hurley Norfolk Island.
Speaker 1: Dates to be released soon. There you go, Ben Hurley
Speaker 1: and myself chatting all things Kaiju. So say, I think
Speaker 1: you liked it a little bit more at the end
Speaker 1: than he did at the start. I think he came
Speaker 1: around and I always love that. I hope you enjoyed
Speaker 1: the chat too. And the movie, yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: a classic, certainly a classic ending, certainly a classic final lack. Obviously,
Speaker 1: there are some problems around some of the key creatives
Speaker 1: in that movie, but I think we covered that off
Speaker 1: earlier in the chat. So thanks Ben for that, mate.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate that this podcast comes with homework. Obviously.
Speaker 1: If you're in New Zealand, you can see Ben touring
Speaker 1: around on seven Days and he'll be on Patriot Games
Speaker 1: shown both in New Zealand and Australia. In Australia on
Speaker 1: SBS SO check Ben out there. He's bloody hilarious. Hopefully
Speaker 1: I'm going to get him across across here. We might
Speaker 1: do some shows together. I would love that. And Island
Speaker 1: here we come. Speaking of shows, Deconstructed Oragami is my
Speaker 1: new show. I'll be cheering around tickets around sale already
Speaker 1: in Sydney, Canberra, Brisbane and Adelaide, so Melbourne and Perth.
Speaker 1: Tazzy was more regional dates we'll be announced later. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you can get them all in or your ducks in
Speaker 1: it right at the same time. Sometimes you just gotta
Speaker 1: stagger the release of tickets. So yes, please, I'd love
Speaker 1: to see you at my Deconstructed Oragami show. I'm really
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be a real fun one. Okay,
Speaker 1: next week on the show. And you may have just
Speaker 1: actually noticed a slight change in the sound of the podcast,
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what this
Speaker 1: is why Because that episode that you just listened to
Speaker 1: was recorded in isolation. Ben was in New Zealand. I
Speaker 1: was at home and the great Derek Myers shaken off
Speaker 1: the the spicy spicy cough. What a hero who was
Speaker 1: still getting the job done. He was at his home
Speaker 1: so there was a three way kind of thing going on.
Speaker 1: Thank you Derek for pulling through for that episode. But
Speaker 1: next week on the show is a final episode for
Speaker 1: the year, and this is a new tradition. I want
Speaker 1: you into nothing yet to begin. I will be announcing
Speaker 1: next week on the show my favorite, my absolute favorite
Speaker 1: film of twenty twenty two. In fact, I'll announced probably
Speaker 1: my top five, maybe even my top ten. We went
Speaker 1: there to be going into detail and depth, a real
Speaker 1: in depth discussion over all those films, but we will
Speaker 1: probably deep dive into my favorite film. I'm going to
Speaker 1: have a special guest. That guest is comedian actress Bloody
Speaker 1: legend Susie Yusef returning guests. She joined us in Series one,
Speaker 1: all the way back in Series one, which you did
Speaker 1: Rebel without a She's a movie lover and she actually
Speaker 1: put me on to this movie that became my favorite
Speaker 1: movie of the year. It's funny when I get to
Speaker 1: the end of the year and I try to think
Speaker 1: of what is my favorite movie of the year. I
Speaker 1: realized there are still so many great movies being made,
Speaker 1: and sometimes we bemoaned the rise of Marvel and Martin
Speaker 1: Scorsese will talk about that, but there are still great
Speaker 1: filmmakers out there. There are still great movies being made,
Speaker 1: and this was absolutely one of them. My favorite movie
Speaker 1: of the year. I'm going to tell you now so
Speaker 1: you can watch it and joining the discussion next week
Speaker 1: with Susie. It came out early in the year. It
Speaker 1: was I think nominated for an Oscar in the Best
Speaker 1: Foreign Language category. It blew me away. There were a
Speaker 1: few movies up for grabs for this title. I thought
Speaker 1: it was a really good year, but the movie that
Speaker 1: really got to me. Directed by Joakim Trier, starring a
Speaker 1: stunning performance by Renate Ramsby, It is The Worst Person
Speaker 1: in the World. It was my favorite movie of the year.
Speaker 1: I'll be chatting to Suzi Yusef about that movie and
Speaker 1: my other favorite movies of the year, but in particular
Speaker 1: we will be focusing on The Worst Person in the
Speaker 1: World and Norwegian film. It chronicles four years in the
Speaker 1: life of Julie, a young woman who navigates the trouble
Speaker 1: warders of her love life and struggles to find her
Speaker 1: career path. It is. It sounds like there's not much
Speaker 1: to it, and it's just one of those life studies
Speaker 1: of a film. I thought it was amazing. I know
Speaker 1: port Thomas Anderson one of my favorite filmmakers. He raved
Speaker 1: about this film. So if you haven't seen it, check
Speaker 1: it out. It is on I believe. I think you
Speaker 1: can get it on you know like binge or foxtail.
Speaker 1: Check you streaming services. But the worst woman in the
Speaker 1: world check it out up and then Susie will join
Speaker 1: me next week for a great discussion about that. I
Speaker 1: can't wait to hear her favorite films of the year
Speaker 1: as well. Until then for a final upisode. You won't
Speaker 1: say nothing yet, take care bye for now, and
Speaker 7: So we leave old Pete, save fan soul, and to
Speaker 7: our friends of the radio audience, we've been a pleasant
Speaker 7: good night.