1 00:00:10,204 --> 00:00:13,444 Speaker 1: My Heart podcasts. Here more Gold one on one point 2 00:00:13,524 --> 00:00:15,204 Speaker 1: seven podcasts. 3 00:00:14,604 --> 00:00:17,724 Speaker 2: Playlists and listen live on the free iHeart app. 4 00:00:18,564 --> 00:00:21,004 Speaker 3: Jersey and Amanda jam Nation. 5 00:00:21,364 --> 00:00:24,204 Speaker 1: You won't have heard about our guest today, Doctor Harry 6 00:00:24,364 --> 00:00:27,164 Speaker 1: or Richard Harris, known as Harry. He was an integral 7 00:00:27,244 --> 00:00:30,444 Speaker 1: part of the incredible team behind that cave rescue in 8 00:00:30,484 --> 00:00:33,404 Speaker 1: Thailand back in twenty eighteen where the whole soccer team 9 00:00:33,484 --> 00:00:36,403 Speaker 1: was trapped in a cave underground. The rescue earned Harry 10 00:00:36,403 --> 00:00:38,523 Speaker 1: the title of Australian of the Year in twenty nineteen. 11 00:00:39,043 --> 00:00:42,004 Speaker 1: He's one of the world's leading cave divers, something that 12 00:00:42,084 --> 00:00:44,123 Speaker 1: just sends shivers through my spine. He's got a new 13 00:00:44,164 --> 00:00:47,644 Speaker 1: documentary out. It sounds incredible. It's one that explores these 14 00:00:47,724 --> 00:00:51,164 Speaker 1: underwater wonders. Harry, Hi here is thanks for having me. 15 00:00:51,364 --> 00:00:53,124 Speaker 3: Everyone weighed in on this at the time. 16 00:00:53,204 --> 00:00:56,324 Speaker 2: Everyone thought that from Elon Musk say he's going to 17 00:00:56,324 --> 00:00:59,084 Speaker 2: give you a submarine and then going crazy on Twitter 18 00:00:59,524 --> 00:01:02,884 Speaker 2: to people saying, oh you know, you shouldn't sedate these boys. 19 00:01:03,164 --> 00:01:04,644 Speaker 3: It must have been such a hard time. 20 00:01:04,924 --> 00:01:08,764 Speaker 4: Well, I was the most vocal opponent to the sedation idea. 21 00:01:08,924 --> 00:01:11,164 Speaker 4: I can assure you so yeah. When I got there. 22 00:01:11,204 --> 00:01:14,003 Speaker 4: It was it was crazy that are thousands of people 23 00:01:14,044 --> 00:01:16,923 Speaker 4: around and inside that cave, and it was like walking 24 00:01:17,004 --> 00:01:19,364 Speaker 4: into complete chaos. But yeah, we got through it. 25 00:01:19,764 --> 00:01:22,084 Speaker 2: And when you say you were against the sedation, I 26 00:01:22,644 --> 00:01:24,444 Speaker 2: thought that as well. So why would they do that? 27 00:01:25,124 --> 00:01:27,644 Speaker 2: And then it was explained that because it's such a 28 00:01:27,644 --> 00:01:29,044 Speaker 2: long dive, the person would panic. 29 00:01:29,364 --> 00:01:30,404 Speaker 3: Although coming out. 30 00:01:30,324 --> 00:01:32,964 Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a very much a last resort, and 31 00:01:33,644 --> 00:01:35,604 Speaker 4: you know, they were racking their brains trying to find 32 00:01:35,604 --> 00:01:37,484 Speaker 4: a solution, and I spent twenty four hours on the 33 00:01:37,484 --> 00:01:41,283 Speaker 4: ground making sure there was no other possible idea that 34 00:01:41,364 --> 00:01:43,484 Speaker 4: could work, and in the end I resigned myself to 35 00:01:43,484 --> 00:01:45,284 Speaker 4: the fact that that's the only way these boys are 36 00:01:45,284 --> 00:01:47,124 Speaker 4: coming out, you know, in the next couple of days. 37 00:01:47,164 --> 00:01:49,803 Speaker 4: Otherwise they would have perished in the cave over several 38 00:01:49,804 --> 00:01:53,324 Speaker 4: weeks because the waters were coming back and Monsoon's coming back. 39 00:01:53,364 --> 00:01:56,964 Speaker 4: So it was a desperate act that fortunately somehow paid off. 40 00:01:57,044 --> 00:01:58,764 Speaker 1: And is that because the boys would have consumed two 41 00:01:58,764 --> 00:02:00,724 Speaker 1: mouths too much oxygen if they panicked. 42 00:02:01,644 --> 00:02:04,884 Speaker 4: Just you know, if I put someone like yourself, Amanda 43 00:02:05,004 --> 00:02:10,284 Speaker 4: underwater zero visibility three hours, you go through these very tight, 44 00:02:10,364 --> 00:02:13,764 Speaker 4: constricted tunnels. We know from experience that people panic very 45 00:02:13,844 --> 00:02:16,963 Speaker 4: quickly and someone who panics immediately dies, and more importantly 46 00:02:17,043 --> 00:02:19,724 Speaker 4: might also kill the person that's trying to rescue them. 47 00:02:19,764 --> 00:02:22,284 Speaker 4: So we couldn't risk the lives of these British divers 48 00:02:22,284 --> 00:02:24,004 Speaker 4: who are going to be taking them out, so the 49 00:02:24,084 --> 00:02:26,844 Speaker 4: kids had to be compliant or asleep. 50 00:02:26,923 --> 00:02:32,043 Speaker 1: Basically, Wow, that's the whole idea about cave diving. Diving 51 00:02:32,163 --> 00:02:35,924 Speaker 1: through narrow chambers For people who are claustrophobic, this is horrific. 52 00:02:36,163 --> 00:02:38,444 Speaker 1: But going through spaces that you don't know, if you 53 00:02:38,483 --> 00:02:40,683 Speaker 1: fit through, you can get back out. All it takes 54 00:02:40,764 --> 00:02:42,364 Speaker 1: is to kick up a tiny bit of silt you 55 00:02:42,404 --> 00:02:45,724 Speaker 1: don't know up from down. It sounds horrific. 56 00:02:46,124 --> 00:02:48,124 Speaker 4: We are very well trained and we spend a lot 57 00:02:48,163 --> 00:02:50,883 Speaker 4: of time practicing and building up very slowly, so you 58 00:02:50,884 --> 00:02:53,084 Speaker 4: don't go into a cave like the Thai cave on 59 00:02:53,124 --> 00:02:55,363 Speaker 4: your first day out. You know, that's three decades worth 60 00:02:55,363 --> 00:02:58,524 Speaker 4: of experience and being comfortable in that environment to be 61 00:02:58,524 --> 00:03:01,883 Speaker 4: able to manage that, aside from the sedation protocol that 62 00:03:01,923 --> 00:03:04,164 Speaker 4: we use, so you know, there's no way I could 63 00:03:04,204 --> 00:03:06,763 Speaker 4: have survived that dive. When I first started cave diving 64 00:03:06,803 --> 00:03:09,804 Speaker 4: in the eighties. But after all the time, you know, 65 00:03:09,923 --> 00:03:12,244 Speaker 4: that side of things wasn't a big deal for us. 66 00:03:12,004 --> 00:03:13,564 Speaker 4: That's that's our comfortable place with. 67 00:03:13,803 --> 00:03:15,643 Speaker 1: We do it on the weekends for fun, and so 68 00:03:15,764 --> 00:03:17,964 Speaker 1: you go into holes for fun that you don't know 69 00:03:18,004 --> 00:03:19,804 Speaker 1: whether you can actually fit in, whether your tank will 70 00:03:19,803 --> 00:03:20,964 Speaker 1: get jammed, you don't know. 71 00:03:21,163 --> 00:03:23,684 Speaker 4: Well, you do learn to judge that quite early on 72 00:03:23,724 --> 00:03:26,284 Speaker 4: when you give yourself a fright early on you go right, 73 00:03:26,324 --> 00:03:27,764 Speaker 4: well that was a bit small, so I'm not going 74 00:03:27,803 --> 00:03:30,564 Speaker 4: to do that again. But you know, if you can 75 00:03:30,603 --> 00:03:32,604 Speaker 4: get through it, then you can get back out through it. 76 00:03:32,724 --> 00:03:36,804 Speaker 4: And that sometimes means being able to control your fear 77 00:03:36,884 --> 00:03:40,284 Speaker 4: and realizing there is a solution to this problem and 78 00:03:40,363 --> 00:03:42,444 Speaker 4: you just have to keep calm and solve it. It's 79 00:03:42,524 --> 00:03:44,764 Speaker 4: like a game of Tetris underwater with the clock running. 80 00:03:44,803 --> 00:03:48,444 Speaker 4: I guess, I know that sounds dramatic, but that's the 81 00:03:48,444 --> 00:03:52,164 Speaker 4: best way to picture it. But when you do it 82 00:03:52,204 --> 00:03:54,684 Speaker 4: all the time, then that just become you normalize it. 83 00:03:54,724 --> 00:03:55,364 Speaker 1: I guess is. 84 00:03:55,363 --> 00:03:56,564 Speaker 3: It like being reborn? 85 00:03:57,764 --> 00:04:00,004 Speaker 4: Well, I can't remember the first time, but it's just. 86 00:03:59,924 --> 00:04:03,604 Speaker 3: Like some sort of anthropological thing, you know. 87 00:04:03,644 --> 00:04:07,004 Speaker 4: You know, I just enjoy the problem solving under a 88 00:04:07,044 --> 00:04:08,804 Speaker 4: little bit of pressure, and I guess that's the life 89 00:04:08,884 --> 00:04:11,363 Speaker 4: if I've lived, you know, working in critical care medicine. 90 00:04:11,404 --> 00:04:13,644 Speaker 4: I think it's a lot of overlap with that that 91 00:04:13,724 --> 00:04:15,844 Speaker 4: most of the time it's very routine, it's very safe 92 00:04:15,884 --> 00:04:19,204 Speaker 4: for everyone involved. But occasionally you have to fall back 93 00:04:19,204 --> 00:04:22,044 Speaker 4: on your train and keep calm and solve problems. And 94 00:04:22,604 --> 00:04:23,964 Speaker 4: I've enjoyed doing that in my career. 95 00:04:24,044 --> 00:04:25,764 Speaker 3: If you ever do wordle, you can do wordle. 96 00:04:25,804 --> 00:04:30,764 Speaker 4: I have a daily competition against my wife and I'm 97 00:04:30,964 --> 00:04:31,724 Speaker 4: the biggest loser. 98 00:04:33,084 --> 00:04:36,124 Speaker 1: What are some of the hairy situations apart from Thailand 99 00:04:36,204 --> 00:04:38,084 Speaker 1: that you have found yourself in while doing this? 100 00:04:38,604 --> 00:04:40,964 Speaker 4: Well, I have got stuck a couple of times, and. 101 00:04:40,884 --> 00:04:42,284 Speaker 1: That's jammed in a case. 102 00:04:42,364 --> 00:04:46,724 Speaker 4: Yeah, you get your misjudge, as you implied, and you 103 00:04:46,844 --> 00:04:49,604 Speaker 4: try and go through a restriction we call them that's 104 00:04:49,844 --> 00:04:51,964 Speaker 4: a bit too tight and maybe you can wriggle through 105 00:04:52,044 --> 00:04:54,764 Speaker 4: and then you can't reverse out, or you have to 106 00:04:54,764 --> 00:04:56,803 Speaker 4: find a space to turn around and come back out, 107 00:04:57,484 --> 00:05:01,324 Speaker 4: and you know your heart rate, Sure it comes up 108 00:05:01,324 --> 00:05:04,004 Speaker 4: in that moment, but again you just learn how to 109 00:05:04,084 --> 00:05:06,404 Speaker 4: keep calm and carry on. 110 00:05:07,644 --> 00:05:10,204 Speaker 1: Tell us about the DOCCO is going to show, Well, 111 00:05:11,124 --> 00:05:14,324 Speaker 1: my gorge Rose listening to you. Then, are there hairy 112 00:05:14,404 --> 00:05:15,324 Speaker 1: moments in the doco? 113 00:05:15,844 --> 00:05:16,564 Speaker 3: Look, there's a few. 114 00:05:16,844 --> 00:05:19,404 Speaker 4: And you know, this is based on an expedition in 115 00:05:19,444 --> 00:05:22,644 Speaker 4: New Zealand in twenty twenty three where we're exploring what 116 00:05:22,724 --> 00:05:25,484 Speaker 4: might be the deepest diverable cave in the world. And 117 00:05:25,644 --> 00:05:28,844 Speaker 4: we're so my friend Craig Challon, who was also Australian 118 00:05:28,884 --> 00:05:31,004 Speaker 4: of the Year with me. We have a bit of 119 00:05:31,044 --> 00:05:34,204 Speaker 4: a niche interest in deep diving because we're interested in 120 00:05:34,244 --> 00:05:37,564 Speaker 4: the physiology and the physics and the logistics of overcoming 121 00:05:37,604 --> 00:05:40,444 Speaker 4: what is another type of danger in diving. 122 00:05:40,644 --> 00:05:42,924 Speaker 1: Not just deep but deep and then in a cave. 123 00:05:43,284 --> 00:05:46,444 Speaker 4: Yeah, although this cave is quite roomy, so there's plenty 124 00:05:46,004 --> 00:05:48,404 Speaker 4: that there's never a concern you're going to get stuck 125 00:05:48,404 --> 00:05:50,364 Speaker 4: in this one. It's a nice big tunnel. 126 00:05:50,284 --> 00:05:52,724 Speaker 3: It's reasonable, but it goes very. 127 00:05:52,604 --> 00:05:55,244 Speaker 4: Very deep, like it's well over two hundred meters deep, 128 00:05:55,364 --> 00:05:58,884 Speaker 4: and so we're working out how to use different gases, 129 00:05:58,924 --> 00:06:02,244 Speaker 4: different technologies to push down deeper and deeper. And that's 130 00:06:02,484 --> 00:06:04,524 Speaker 4: kind of what the film's about. But it's also about 131 00:06:04,564 --> 00:06:08,084 Speaker 4: this group of friends that I've been exploring caves with 132 00:06:08,524 --> 00:06:12,243 Speaker 4: for avery long time and how this camaraderie of putting 133 00:06:12,284 --> 00:06:15,084 Speaker 4: yourself in these sort of situations can get you through it. 134 00:06:15,084 --> 00:06:17,124 Speaker 1: It's what'd you see down there? 135 00:06:18,044 --> 00:06:18,404 Speaker 2: Well? 136 00:06:18,524 --> 00:06:22,564 Speaker 4: The trite answer is more wet rocks. But for us, 137 00:06:22,844 --> 00:06:25,164 Speaker 4: the fact that you're looking at tunnels that no one's 138 00:06:25,204 --> 00:06:27,764 Speaker 4: ever laid eyes on before is really exciting you. You're 139 00:06:27,804 --> 00:06:30,803 Speaker 4: genuinely exploring in these places, and it's very hard to 140 00:06:30,844 --> 00:06:32,764 Speaker 4: do that on the planet Earth these days. All the 141 00:06:32,804 --> 00:06:34,084 Speaker 4: mountains have been climbed. 142 00:06:33,724 --> 00:06:34,924 Speaker 3: And hey you look at that. Look at you got 143 00:06:34,924 --> 00:06:36,964 Speaker 3: a job of Mount Everest. It's at a billion people. 144 00:06:38,444 --> 00:06:41,124 Speaker 2: And there's a South I bet you want to see 145 00:06:41,124 --> 00:06:42,444 Speaker 2: a south supporter down the cave. 146 00:06:42,724 --> 00:06:44,244 Speaker 4: Well, I don't know what that is, but is that? 147 00:06:44,644 --> 00:06:46,564 Speaker 4: Is that the equivalent to a port supporter in Adelaide, 148 00:06:46,604 --> 00:06:47,084 Speaker 4: which I am. 149 00:06:48,124 --> 00:06:49,924 Speaker 3: There you go, but you've got good teeth. There you go? 150 00:06:50,044 --> 00:06:52,123 Speaker 4: Well, actually the front ones haven't been knocked out. 151 00:06:53,004 --> 00:06:54,684 Speaker 3: Then you qualify deeper? 152 00:06:54,804 --> 00:06:58,764 Speaker 2: Is in Cinema's October thirty terrifying Richard Harry Harris. 153 00:06:58,804 --> 00:07:00,604 Speaker 3: I'd rather watch you do it than me do it. 154 00:07:00,764 --> 00:07:01,724 Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us. 155 00:07:01,724 --> 00:07:02,804 Speaker 4: Thanks guys, it's been fun.