1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: Already and this this is the Daily Ars. 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 2: This is the Daily ohs oh, now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday, 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 2: the eighteenth of November. I'm Emma Gillespie. 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: I'm Lucy Tassel. 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 2: US President Donald Trump has announced plans to sue the BBC, 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 2: the British Broadcasting Corporation, for up to seven point five 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 2: billion Ossie dollars. It comes after the British broadcaster apologized 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 2: to Donald Trump over an allegedly misleading edit of a 10 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,319 Speaker 2: speech he gave on the sixth of January twenty twenty one, 11 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 2: the day of the deadly Washington insurrection. But the BBC 12 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 2: has rejected compensation claims from Trump's lawyers. And today we'll 13 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 2: explain that the speech edit in question, the fallout, and 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 2: whether Trump is likely to succeed in his action against 15 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: the broadcaster. 16 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: Emma, this story has been in the global spotlight for 17 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: a little over a week now. But let's go back. 18 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: So much is changing so fast. Where did this actually start? 19 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 2: I think to understand all the pieces of the puzzle, 20 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 2: we probably need to take it all the way back 21 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 2: to twenty twenty. That was the year that Donald Trump 22 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: lost his reelection bid to Joe Biden. And you may 23 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 2: remember that Trump initially refused to concede defeat. He alleged 24 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 2: election fraud and was accused of spreading false claims and 25 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 2: obstructing the transition of power to President Biden. All of 26 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 2: that came to a head on the sixth of January 27 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, when Trump supporters stormed the US Capitol 28 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 2: and attempted to block official procedures confirming Biden's victory. It 29 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 2: was a huge day in global media in US history. 30 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 2: Seven people ended up dying as a result of the riots, 31 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: and there have been countless inquiries and questions ever since 32 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 2: in terms of the conduct that led to that. 33 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: So then what's the connection between January sixth and the 34 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: BBC documentary. 35 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 2: So about a week before the US presidential election in 36 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 2: November last year, So fast forward to twenty twenty four, 37 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: the BBC's flagship current affairs program, a show called Panorama, 38 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 2: aired an episode called Trump a Second Chance question Mark. 39 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 2: So the documentary was essentially analyzing Trump's history and you know, 40 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: his reelection bid, whether or not it was looking likely 41 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 2: to succeed, And part of painting that picture included a 42 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: bit of analysis around the Jan six riots. So the 43 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: episode showed excerpts of Donald Trump's speech on that day 44 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, the day his support had stormed 45 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 2: the Capitol, and the episode was later accused of appearing 46 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: to suggest that Trump encouraged the attack. So at the 47 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 2: time after the Panorama episode aired, an independent editorial standards 48 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 2: advisor wrote to the BBC board describing the program as 49 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 2: quote neither balanced nor impartial. Now that is important as 50 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 2: it retains to the BBC because it is the public 51 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:12,559 Speaker 2: broadcaster in the UK. British citizens residents pay a licensing 52 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 2: fee to keep it running and it's held to certain 53 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 2: standards like our ABC, certain editorial standards about its news 54 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 2: coverage and impartiality. But this review of the Panorama episode 55 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: found that it quotes spliced together two clips from separate 56 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 2: parts of a speech that Trump made almost an hour 57 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 2: apart to suggest quote Trump said something he did not. 58 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 2: The report also alleged that BBC managers dismissed concerns raised 59 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 2: about this edit. And we've only recently become aware of 60 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 2: all of this because this review, that report by the 61 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: independent advisor was leaked to the Telegraph. A conservative British 62 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 2: newspaper and published earlier this month. 63 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: What did the White House say in response to this report? 64 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: The Trump administration and the White House has been very 65 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: critical of the BBC. In response, White House Press Secretary 66 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 2: Caroline Levitt called the edit election interference. She said it 67 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: was designed to influence the results of the twenty twenty 68 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: four election, given the documentary aired just days before American 69 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: voters headed to the polls. Trump has been similarly critical. 70 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: He posted on truth social saying the BBC had been 71 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 2: caught red handed in his words, and calling for action 72 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 2: against what he described as fake news. 73 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: What has been the fallout at the BBC over this. 74 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 2: It's been pretty significant. So we saw two senior news 75 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 2: executives resign on the tenth of November, and then on Friday, 76 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 2: the BBC issued a formal apology to Donald Trump. The 77 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 2: Director General of the broadcaster, Tim Davies, said the edit 78 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 2: quote did not meet the BBC's editorial standards. He said 79 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 2: the corporation apologizes for this error and announced that the 80 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 2: BBC has launched an internal review into the processes into 81 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: the decision behind the edit. To kind of paint more 82 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: of a picture to understand that Panorama episode. 83 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more on this story, Emma, 84 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: but first a quick word from our sponsor. Now we're 85 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: at the point of there being a possible lawsuit. When 86 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: did Trump threaten to sue and what are his grounds. 87 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: Trump's lawyers sent a letter to the BBC actually last week, 88 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: demanding compensation. They've claimed that the edit is defamatory, that 89 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 2: it damaged Trump's reputation, and they've argued that the doco 90 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 2: portrays him as inciting violence. On January sixth, which Trump 91 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 2: has consistently denied since twenty twenty one, Trump gave a 92 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 2: little bit more of an indication about the sum of 93 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: money he is seeking in terms of the scale of 94 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 2: these alleged damages. Here's a little bit of what he 95 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: said to reporters aboard Air Force one over the weekend. Well, 96 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 2: we'll sue them. 97 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: We'll sue them for anywhere between a bidion and five 98 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: billion dollars, probably sometime next week. So now the BBC 99 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: has apologized to Trump, but have they responded to these 100 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: threats of legal action. 101 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 2: The BBC has rejected the compensation claims. It needs to 102 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: be said. So they did issue that apology. They've made 103 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 2: it clear that they understand the editing of that Panorama 104 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: episode was perhaps misleading, but they've also made it clear 105 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: they will not be paying these billions in dollars that 106 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 2: Trump is demanding as compensation. A BBC spokesperson said the 107 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 2: corporation does take its editorial standards seriously. It's apologized for 108 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 2: the error, but that they believe Trump's compensation demands are 109 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 2: without merit. 110 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: This is all centering on a BBC documentary that aired 111 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: in the UK on UK public television in November twenty 112 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: twenty four. Did it ever actually air anywhere else? 113 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 2: This is a really important detail because no, the Panorama 114 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 2: documentary never aired in the US. It was broadcast, as 115 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 2: you said, Lucy, on BBC one. In the US, it 116 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: was available on the BBC's streaming platform, a service called 117 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: iPlayer that is primarily accessible in the UK. You could 118 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 2: suggest that there's a gray area with VPNs. Some Americans 119 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: may have been able to access it through VPNs or 120 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 2: other means, but there was no official US broadcast or 121 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 2: distribution of the program. The reason that that is significant 122 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: is if Trump is proceeding with legal action, the US 123 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: has very strong protections for freedom of speech and the press. 124 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 2: The standard for proving defamation there, particularly for public figures 125 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 2: like Trump, is extremely high, and there would be a 126 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: bit of a gap that would need to be filled 127 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: or prosecutors would need to be enlightened as to why 128 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: a UK program would matter to a US election. In 129 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 2: the UK, though the burden of proof is different, there 130 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: are fewer protections for publishers compared to the US. But 131 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: it does seem Trump wants to sue in the US. 132 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: That appears to be what he's indicating, and US courts 133 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 2: generally won't hear defamation cases about material that was only 134 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 2: published in another country. If the BBC had done a 135 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 2: distribution deal with a broadcaster like the PBS, and it 136 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 2: had played to US audiences on a public service network, 137 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 2: we might be talking about a different set of circumstances. 138 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: What does that mean for Trump's legal options? 139 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 2: Then he could try to file a suit in the UK, 140 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: but he would need to show that he suffered serious 141 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 2: harm to his reputation because of the documentary. Now, given 142 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: that Trump went ahead and won the election after the 143 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 2: doco aired, it'd be difficult to argue that he suffered 144 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 2: any serious reputational or financial harms because of it. 145 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: Could he argue something along the lines of the edit 146 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: being misleading, with that strengthen his case. 147 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 2: In some way potentially, But the BBC has already acknowledged 148 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 2: that the edits didn't meet its standards. I do think 149 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 2: it's important to note, though, that acknowledge of a mistake 150 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 2: is not an knowledge of defamation. They have an admitted defamation. 151 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 2: The challenge here is that the words in the edit, 152 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 2: so the way the speech was edited together, were still 153 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 2: Trump's own words. It's not as though, you know, you 154 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 2: sometimes hear about the way Reality TV is produced. A 155 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 2: Frankenstein editor in a phrase that might refer to when 156 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 2: you can hear that seven different words from seven different 157 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 2: contexts are stitched together as one sentence. These were Trump's 158 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: words from his speech. So legal experts have been pretty 159 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: skeptical about his chances of success, particularly if he tries 160 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 2: to sue in the US. He also, it has to 161 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 2: be noted, has a long history of these kinds of threats. 162 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 2: You know, Trump is no stranger to a civil lawsuit. 163 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 2: He regularly threatens news organizations. Many of those threats never 164 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 2: result in actual court filings, but sometimes they do result 165 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 2: in settlements outside of courts, and some commentators are suggesting 166 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 2: that this is a lot more about intimidation and a 167 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 2: lot more about Trump's relationship with legacy media traditional media 168 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: quote unquote mainstream media than it is about actually winning 169 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: damages and taking it to court. 170 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: What do we think are going to be the next 171 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: steps here. 172 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: Well, so far, nothing has been filed officially in terms 173 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 2: of legal action, but the BBC is continuing with that 174 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: internal review that will take some time, and there might 175 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 2: be some revelations about editorial processes that come to light 176 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,839 Speaker 2: that could give Trump more of a case whether or 177 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: not this ends up in court. You know, I doubt 178 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 2: it's going to be the last time we hear about 179 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 2: Donald Trump having issues with mainstream media. I doubt it's 180 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 2: going to be the last time we see a bit 181 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 2: of a back and forth about him disagreeing with the 182 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: way certain news publishers talk about him or the way 183 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: he's presented in traditional media. Either way, you know, there's 184 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 2: plenty to come, I think, Lucy. 185 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for explaining that, Emma, and thank you 186 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: for joining us today on the Daily Ohs. We'll be 187 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: back this afternoon with the headlines. Until then, have a 188 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: great day. My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a 189 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: proud Arunda Bunjelung Calkatin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily 190 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands 191 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: of the Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal 192 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: and torrest Rate island and nations. We pay our respects 193 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: to the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.