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Speaker 1: Hello, This is the Happy Families Podcast and our last

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Speaker 1: tricky question of the year. Every Tuesday on the Happy

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Speaker 1: Families Pod, we answer your tricky questions. This one has

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Speaker 1: a bit of a Christmas flavor. We're in December and

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Speaker 1: we've got a question about cousins, catch ups, Christmas and

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Speaker 1: inconsistent values. What do you do when the kids are

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Speaker 1: getting older, they're starting to notice that their cousins don't

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Speaker 1: have the same rules that you have and it's starting

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Speaker 1: to create some tension. A tricky question for Christmas. Up

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Speaker 1: next on the Happy Families podcast, Stay with us. Hello,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast, where you get real

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Speaker 1: parenting solutions every single day. This is Australia's most downloaded

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Speaker 1: parenting podcast. How cool is that? We are Justin and

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Speaker 1: Kylie Coulson. We're so glad that you joined us for

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Speaker 1: a tricky question. Oh by the way, if you have

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Speaker 1: a tricky question, we'll start answering them again next year.

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Speaker 1: All you have to do is go to Happy families

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Speaker 1: dot com dot i U, scroll down to the podcast section,

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Speaker 1: press the record button, start talking. It's that easy. Or

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Speaker 1: you can set us a voice note to podcasts at

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Speaker 1: Happy Families dot com dot au questions about discipline and

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Speaker 1: family life and wellbeing and stress and kids and finances

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Speaker 1: and whatever it is that you'd like to ask. We're

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Speaker 1: here for you and we'd love to discuss it with you. Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's today's question.

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Speaker 2: Hi, guys, just ak to some advice on how to

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Speaker 2: handle cousin relationships, just for contact. My daughter, she's eleven

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Speaker 2: years old. She's really close with my sister in law's daughter,

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Speaker 2: who is also eleven. They've grown up together. They get

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Speaker 2: along really really well. My sister in law's family they

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Speaker 2: do things very different to the way we parent as

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Speaker 2: a family. They allow no boundaries on devices screens, their

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Speaker 2: language is out of control. They also allow their eldest

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Speaker 2: daughter to drink alcohol. She's only fourteen years old. It's

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Speaker 2: just a really hard relationship to kind of navigate because

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Speaker 2: obviously I don't want to sever the relationship my daughter

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Speaker 2: has with her cousin, but I also am worried about

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Speaker 2: the implications of their behavior going onto my daughter. Any

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Speaker 2: advice on how I should navigate this, what I should do,

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Speaker 2: would be really really helpful.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Caylie, there it is. I've been making nuts furiously.

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Speaker 1: I saw you doing that as well. My first thing

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Speaker 1: is just blood, right, it's your blood. You want to

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Speaker 1: be close, you want to be connected. There's something there's

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Speaker 1: something inside us. I don't know whether it's some Darwinian

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Speaker 1: evolutionary thing or whatever it is that makes us want

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Speaker 1: to be close and connected to our kin, to our blood,

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Speaker 1: to those who were related to And that's what makes

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Speaker 1: this so tricky.

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Speaker 3: Right, we find ourselves in this moral dilemma because if

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Speaker 3: we thought about it kind of, I guess, without the

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Speaker 3: family relationship, without the bloodline.

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Speaker 1: You take the family filter off it.

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Speaker 3: If it was anybody else and our children wanted to

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Speaker 3: spend time in that environment, in that home, we would

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Speaker 3: just say no. Like it wouldn't. It would be an

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Speaker 3: absolute no brainer. But all of a sudden, because we've

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Speaker 3: got this bloodline, we feel conflicted. M absolutely, and I

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Speaker 3: think it's really important to understand. Actually, it's not the

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Speaker 3: only one who's experienced this. I would say that most families,

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Speaker 3: whether it's family or a close family friend, we've all

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Speaker 3: dealt with this. This is something that comes up regularly

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Speaker 3: for many homes and many families.

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Speaker 1: But it's really tricky as well, because at Christmas, you've

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Speaker 1: kind of got this expectation that everyone is going to

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Speaker 1: get together and everyone is going to get along, and

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Speaker 1: that we're going to have peace on earth and good

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Speaker 1: will towards men, including our cousins and our brothers and

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Speaker 1: our sisters and our parents and our in laws.

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Speaker 3: But there in lies that actually the key. We have

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Speaker 3: expectations secret happiness. We actually have expectations of what it

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Speaker 3: looks like, what it should look like, and how we

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Speaker 3: spend our time. And more times than not, like the

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Speaker 3: more people I talk to, I feel like we spend

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Speaker 3: our lives literally tying ourselves and knots, trying to please everybody,

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Speaker 3: but it actually creates so much more havoc in our lives.

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Speaker 3: So we've dealt with this in our own family with

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Speaker 3: our children as they've grown up. But I think the

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Speaker 3: thing that is really important to us is that we've

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Speaker 3: not focused so much on the other family. We've focused

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Speaker 3: on what we do in our home. So when our

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Speaker 3: kids have come to us and said they really want

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Speaker 3: to go and spend time with some and so we've

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Speaker 3: kind of had to look at it a little bit

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Speaker 3: more analytically and really kind of dissect whether or not

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Speaker 3: this is something we want our children to be involved in.

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Speaker 3: We've had a much more hands on approach with those relationships.

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Speaker 3: We've supervised a lot more, We've kind of created experiences

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Speaker 3: on our terms, so the kids still get to spend

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Speaker 3: time with their cousins. This is really important because family

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Speaker 3: relationships matter. They matter deeply, and if we can find

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Speaker 3: ways to have positive interactions with them, this goes a

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Speaker 3: long way to helping our children feel a sense of

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Speaker 3: belonging and security.

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Speaker 1: Actually, you can hear the emotion in Kylie's voice, and

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Speaker 1: that's because our family's experienced this in a lot of directions,

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Speaker 1: and it really does make life tricky. Let me share

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Speaker 1: three other ideas that I think might be useful here.

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Speaker 1: The first is forbidden Fruit. A good friend of mine,

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Speaker 1: Chris Nemick did some research at the University of Rochester,

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Speaker 1: probably about fifteen years ago now maybe twenty years ago,

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Speaker 1: finding that when you make a relationship forbidden, whether it's

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Speaker 1: a cousin or a friend, it doesn't really matter. But

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Speaker 1: when you forbid a certain friendship or a certain relationship,

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Speaker 1: the children gravitate towards it. There's something that goes on

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Speaker 1: where they feel compelled. You said I can't, but why

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Speaker 1: not and now I'm going to go out and embrace

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Speaker 1: this relationship and develop it further and probably be more

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Speaker 1: influenced in that relationlationship because I don't think that you're

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Speaker 1: acting in my best interests. So it's a really tricky

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Speaker 1: typerope to walk. If we make this a forbidden fruit situation,

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Speaker 1: our children are likely to resist. Force creates resistance.

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Speaker 3: You've acknowledged we've got four adult children now, so we're

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Speaker 3: not having to deal with this as much with them.

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Speaker 3: But in those early years, there was so much concern

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Speaker 3: about other people influencing our children. And now coming up

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Speaker 3: the other end of it, of course, spending time with

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Speaker 3: people who have different values inevitably rubs off a little

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Speaker 3: bit on our children. But the greatest influence it's us.

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Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, it is.

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Speaker 3: It's what happens in our home, and it's how we

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Speaker 3: talk about other people. You talk about the forbidden fruit concept.

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Speaker 3: The idea that I would talk poorly about somebody else

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Speaker 3: because they live differently to me rubs off on my

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Speaker 3: children more than them. Spending time with other people who

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Speaker 3: do things differently.

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Speaker 1: After break, big ideas that can help you to have

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Speaker 1: conversations that will move the needle on this and help

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Speaker 1: give you clarity so that you can know that the

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Speaker 1: kids are okay and that they are going to make

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Speaker 1: decisions that you're going to have confidence in. That's next.

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Speaker 1: If you're enjoying the podcast, please like, share the podcast,

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Speaker 1: leave us a five star rating and review. It helps

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Speaker 1: other people to find the pod more. Next, we're back

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Speaker 1: this is the Happy Families podcast. I think that one

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Speaker 1: of the best things that we can do when these

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Speaker 1: tricky situations arise is to preempt them by having a

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Speaker 1: pre arm in conversation with the kids. So this is

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Speaker 1: an exploratory conversation. Sit down with your child and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're going to be catching up for Christmas with your cousins.

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Speaker 1: And as you know, lately there's been a bit of

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Speaker 1: a little bit of conflict, a little bit of challenge

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Speaker 1: around this, and I just want to know what are

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Speaker 1: you noticing? How's it making you feel? If we did that,

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Speaker 1: how would you feel about things? So, whether it's you

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Speaker 1: can talk about the screen limits or the language that

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Speaker 1: they're using, or the fact that the big kids are

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Speaker 1: drinking alcohol, you can talk about any of those things,

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Speaker 1: raise them. If your child hasn't noticed them, well maybe not.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you child hasn't noticed them, then it's

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Speaker 1: probably not a big deal for your child. It's a

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Speaker 1: big deal for you.

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Speaker 3: This des what it is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, probably, But by having this conversation, you don't have

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Speaker 1: to start moralizing and pushing your child away. Instead, you're saying,

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Speaker 1: what are you noticing and when that happens, how does

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Speaker 1: it make you feel? And what do you think would

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Speaker 1: be an appropriate way to deal with it? And if

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Speaker 1: we were doing it that way in our family, what

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Speaker 1: do you think the outcome would be?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: How does that sit? And that lends itself really nicely

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Speaker 1: to that discussion you were talking about before, Kylie. Well,

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Speaker 1: in every family, they have different rules and different ways

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Speaker 1: of doing things, and we don't judge people for doing

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Speaker 1: things differently to us, but we like the way we

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Speaker 1: do things and we think that it's for your benefit.

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Speaker 1: Our job is to protect you and that's why we've

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Speaker 1: got these rules. So simply having that exploration conversation can

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Speaker 1: be all you need to do, because now the kids

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Speaker 1: have come up with these ideas for themselves, they've thought

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Speaker 1: it through for themselves, and they're making these value judgments

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Speaker 1: for themselves when not feeding it to them and demanding

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Speaker 1: that they do what we say. It's the whole need support, autonomy,

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Speaker 1: support approach. There's one more thing that I do want

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Speaker 1: to emphasize, though, and this is where we'll wrap it up.

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Speaker 1: If there are clear violations of appropriate moral boundaries. So

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Speaker 1: let's say you've got fourteen year olds that are drinking alcohol,

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Speaker 1: and this is just I mean, if you listen to

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Speaker 1: the podcast and you think it's a good idea, let

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Speaker 1: me assure you it's not. The data on this from

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Speaker 1: around the world now is abundantly clear. Kids who are

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Speaker 1: given alcohol, even at special occasions by their parents start

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Speaker 1: to believe that parents endorse alcohol consumption. They believe that

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Speaker 1: they can drink whenever they want. They're much more likely

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Speaker 1: to drink to excess and drink more frequently, and they're

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Speaker 1: much more likely to have alcohol related problems as they

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Speaker 1: get older. This is just not a recipe for positivity.

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Speaker 1: So I would be saying, we know that they let

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Speaker 1: their twelve year old or their fourteen year old have

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Speaker 1: a sip of beer or wine or whatever because it's

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Speaker 1: Christmas or Shamps, because we're having a champagne breakfast for

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Speaker 1: Christmas morning. We know they let you do that. Or

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Speaker 1: they let their kids do that. We just have a

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Speaker 1: really clear boundary around this. No, and this is the

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Speaker 1: reason for it. But once you've emphasized that rule, once

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Speaker 1: you've provided that clear boundary, and ideally you've brought them

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Speaker 1: in on the conversation, then you again you emphasize there's

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Speaker 1: no judgment here. We still love them, they're still our cousins,

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Speaker 1: there's still our family. We do things differently, but that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that we have to be mad at them,

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Speaker 1: or that we can't talk to them, or that we

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Speaker 1: have to ostracize ourselves or them in some way. We

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Speaker 1: still love them and we still want to have a

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Speaker 1: good relationship with them, so there's no judgment.

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Speaker 3: I'd love to say we've always been that wise and

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Speaker 3: that we've done everything right, and I have come on,

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Speaker 3: But the things that we've learned through those experiences as

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Speaker 3: we tried to navigate family life with our young children

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Speaker 3: and in an effort to safeguard our children, often left

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Speaker 3: family members feeling ostracized or judged harshly. And it was

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Speaker 3: never our intention. Our only desire was to keep our

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Speaker 3: children safe.

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Speaker 1: But it's one of my greatest regrets. I've interrupted you,

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Speaker 1: but one of my great regrets is the one or

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Speaker 1: two times in our lives where I've opened my mouth

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Speaker 1: to try to be helpful, but to try to educate

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Speaker 1: my siblings or your siblings are on something and I've said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know about this, and here's why, and it

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Speaker 1: just doesn't work. Nobody wants to especially from me maybe,

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Speaker 1: but nobody wants to be told what to do around

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Speaker 1: the Christmas dinner table. Nobody wants to be getting parenting

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Speaker 1: advice or being This is a thing that just doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: So keep it in house, talk to the kids, help

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Speaker 1: them to develop their values. Greatest regrets. I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: to raise that, and I just want to emphasize we're

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Speaker 1: coming at this from a personal experience perspective.

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Speaker 3: Ultimately, we just want to celebrate Christmas with the ones

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Speaker 3: that we love. Yeah, find ways to do that and

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Speaker 3: to celebrate with joy.

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Speaker 1: Well, we really hope. Actually that's a helpful response for

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Speaker 1: you tricky, tricky question. Can't wait to get your tricky

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Speaker 1: questions again in the new year. A Happy families dot

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Speaker 1: com today. You just go push the button. It's a

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Speaker 1: super simple system. Tell us what's on your mind. And

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Speaker 1: we would love to be as helpful as we possibly can. Otherwise,

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Speaker 1: send us a voice note to podcasts at Happy families

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Speaker 1: dot com dot you. Oh my goodness, it's beginning to

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Speaker 1: feel a lot like Christmas tomorrow. On the pod The

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Speaker 1: Gift of Boredom Slow Christmas Down? How do we counter

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Speaker 1: the overscheduled holiday madness, building some downtime and create some

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Speaker 1: unstimulating moments during the Christmas break? Can't wait for that one.

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Speaker 1: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from

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Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Mimhammonds provides research, admin, and a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of other support. If you would like more information about

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Speaker 1: making your family happier, visit us at happy families dot

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Speaker 1: com dot au for more