1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,240 Speaker 1: Definitely seeing on the text line this morning that some 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: of you have well and truly had enough of the 3 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: discussion about the administrator who has indeed issued an apology 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: overnight and is going to be sworn in tomorrow. But 5 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: we do know that our next guest is concerned that 6 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: this in many ways that there may be a legal 7 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: breach from a constitutional convention. Now joining me on the 8 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: line is Barrister John Lawrence. 9 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 2: Good morning, John, Good morning, Keithy. 10 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: How are you yeah, really good. Good to hear your 11 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: voice and have you on the show. Thank you for 12 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: joining us. 13 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 2: My pleasure. 14 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:39,919 Speaker 1: Now, John, you flagged that you know disappointment and certainly 15 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: you know some of the concerns that have been raised 16 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: around the incoming administrator could have broader ramifications. Talk me 17 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: through what your concerns are here. 18 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: Well, I think you have to appreciate from the off 19 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 2: that the position of administrator is a very special one, 20 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 2: a very important one, and that has very discs, great 21 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: and constitutional roles, and the conventions in history require that 22 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: the manner woman that fits that bell, sits in that 23 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 2: chair has to be of extreme integrity and squeaky clean character, 24 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: and it has always been that. So you've got Sam 25 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 2: Mustin coming up tomorrow to do the swearing in. You've 26 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 2: got Sir William Dean, Peter Cosgrove, so you know, examples 27 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: such as that ours, we've got Sally Thomas, we've got 28 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 2: James Muirhead, John X Damattis. These are men and women 29 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: who are totally qualified to fulfill which is a very 30 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 2: important position. Now I'm not being personal about this, gentleman, 31 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: mister Connolly, but it's very clear and very apparent as 32 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 2: Nightfallow's day that his character as he chooses to reveal 33 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: in his social media stuff and speeches and so forth, 34 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: and he's quite entitled to have this character, he's quite 35 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: entitled to have these political views, but it renders him 36 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 2: quite clearly unfit for this office. And that reveals something 37 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 2: more significant in this whole scheme. And people might be 38 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 2: sick of it, and so be it, so be it. 39 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 2: But listen, the thing is when some people gain positions 40 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 2: of responsibility, and there's no bigger position of responsibility than 41 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 2: what our chief minister holds. Obviously in cabinet members, judges 42 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 2: and the like, and people in those positions have to 43 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 2: make important decisions. And in order to make those important decisions, 44 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 2: they have to have sound judgment. And in order to 45 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 2: have the sound judgment that's required, it's a combination of intelligence, experience, 46 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 2: balance knowledge. Now what's happened here is quite clear that 47 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 2: this government when they made this decision, and remember it 48 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 2: was in November, it was three months into their govern women, 49 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: all that time ago, with a landslide behind them, and 50 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 2: the hubrius, the hubris, the hubris that stains this entire thing. 51 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 2: They've thought we will break tradition. This isn't an accident. 52 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 2: The fact that they have not chosen someone similar to 53 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 2: Sally Thomas. This is a deliberate breach from the normal 54 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 2: conventions and that has been shown now to be an error. 55 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 2: It's a mistake. It's a judgment found wanting and that 56 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 2: may welcome back politically, I don't care. But as a lawyer, 57 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: I merely speak to you now in relation to that 58 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 2: so and that would take you then necessarily too unfortunately, 59 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 2: But it needs to be done. The position itself needs 60 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 2: to you know, it's an important one. He sensed all legislation, 61 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: he opens the parliament, he closes the parliament. He's a 62 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: patron to a lot of very worthwhile organizations. He represents 63 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 2: us important functions. He hosts the President of France perhaps 64 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: in the next three years, who knows. Now, that's why 65 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: you need Sam Auston, That's why you need John and 66 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 2: nickto Mattis. But this government has chosen not to have 67 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 2: someone like that. They've chosen to have someone like David Connolly. John. 68 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: I guess some people listening this morning, you know, I've 69 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: had them on the text line saying, you know, Katie, 70 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: I don't see what the big deal is, you know, 71 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: some of them saying that we shot that. I'd stop 72 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: talking about it quite frankly. So where do you think 73 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: we go from here? Because it seems the government is 74 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,239 Speaker 1: intent on, you know, continuing down. 75 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 2: The path that they are. 76 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: He's come out overnight and apologized, you know, to what 77 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: I dig it. 78 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 2: We live in a time of populism, don't we. Yeah, 79 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,679 Speaker 2: we really do, the age of populism. And I'm afraid sorry, 80 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 2: as a lawyer and as a citizen. I mean, I'm 81 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: a citizen, a father and grandfather in this jurisdiction. I 82 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 2: don't want someone who not like John Andickrematis as my administrator. 83 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 2: But the thing is, it's not populism that rules the 84 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: day here. It has to be that responsible judgment and 85 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 2: this is a big mistake made by the Chief Minister 86 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 2: and her advisor, and it's a bit and politics are 87 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 2: everywhere sadly because what's happened in this I was abbe 88 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 2: the unfortunately experienced three weeks ago popping into Parliament and 89 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 2: watching that display when the opposition was cut down by 90 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 2: the Speaker of the House, Robin Lambley. And of course 91 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: the politics of all this now reap because you've got 92 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 2: Robin Lambley, who's supposed to be my Speaker of the House, 93 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: an independent member who we all know is a lifelong 94 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 2: you know, was a lifelong member of the CLP, was 95 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 2: appointed by the CLP government. And she's got the Chief 96 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: Minister's got her advisor, Alex Bruce, who's an important player 97 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 2: in all of this, I would suggest, who used to 98 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 2: be the political advisor to Robin Lamley when she was 99 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 2: a Deputy Leader in the CLP government. So they're all 100 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 2: in there. She's ordering people out of Parliament, or she's 101 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 2: ordering them to stop asking questions and a particularly strict 102 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 2: and unnecessary interpretation of the Standing Order Number thirty. 103 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: I urge you to have Robin on this morning, and 104 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 1: I would obviously she was going to come on this morning, 105 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: so I would have given her the opportunity to, you know, 106 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: to voice her side of things. But I'll let you 107 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: finish your point there. Job. 108 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 2: Well, the point I'm making is that it seems apparent 109 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 2: to anybody who's got the misfortune of watching this, and 110 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 2: I can understand your text writers saying they've had enough. 111 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 2: But if you look at this, it looks very clear 112 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: that Robin Lamley is not playing the role of a 113 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: speaker as in being independent. She has done two things 114 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 2: which are vulgar. One was the interpretation of Standing Order thirteen, 115 00:06:55,839 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 2: which gag members of Parliament, including Yinia, which she was 116 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 2: one of the most woeful, horrible, unedifying scenes I've ever 117 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 2: seen in my life, where she basically bullied the man 118 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 2: who was only trying to ask a question concerning the 119 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 2: circumstances of his appointment. And then then she's asked for 120 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 2: permission to have a demonstration outside Government House, and she 121 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: comes out and says, on the one hand, she loves 122 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 2: freedom of speech and demonstrations and democracy, and then in 123 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 2: the same breath says, however, I can't guarantee the security 124 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 2: of so forth. Meanwhile, the federal police are saying no 125 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 2: such thing. So she's a politician and that's a lie 126 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 2: what she said there, and so she's part of this 127 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 2: process which is most. 128 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: Unfortunately obviously Again I will say I would have given 129 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: her the opportunity to voice, you know, her side of things. 130 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: I know that she'd had been on the show last week, 131 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: and I will I still will, and certainly last time 132 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: she was on the show, you know, she had said 133 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: that she was she was, you know, following the rules 134 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: and conventions of Parliament. John, We're going to have to 135 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: get ready to wrap up because I've got to head 136 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: across to the news, and the news waits for no 137 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: man or woman. However, I want to know from you 138 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: what's the plan tomorrow. Is there still going to be amazing? 139 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: What's going to happen from here? 140 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 2: I couldn't say, to be honest, I assume there will be. 141 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 2: I'm not involved in any other demonstration. This planned really 142 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 2: coming on as an experienced lawyer, if I can put 143 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 2: it like that, as well as being a citizen. So 144 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: look this again. I think my major point is that 145 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 2: the politician here has made a really bad error of 146 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 2: judgment and she's dug in on it, which is another 147 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 2: error of judgment. And so we have a leader who 148 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: is seriously wanting in the judgment that's so necessary when 149 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 2: you hold that position of responsibility. And this thing's not 150 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 2: going to get any better. You know, he's going to 151 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 2: turn up and open Parliament. That's going to be controversy. 152 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: He's going to close Parliament. There's going to be he's 153 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 2: going to besmirch the entire office, which necessitates honor, integrity, 154 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 2: and no controversy. And our politician has decided to create 155 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 2: this situation. And it's not dissimilar to what Donald Trump 156 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 2: is doing now in the White House, who's dismantling the 157 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 2: democratic protections and safeguards that their constitution has them, and 158 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 2: this is somewhat similar, and it's all very sad. 159 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: Well, John, we are going to have to lave it there. 160 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: I really appreciate your Tom. Thank you for having a 161 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: chat with me this morning. 162 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie, it's always a pleasure. 163 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: Thanks so much.