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Speaker 1: Well, we know the Northern Territory Parliament yesterday past legislation

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Speaker 1: which is going to mean that we've got the strongest

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Speaker 1: bail laws in Australia. So in that emergency session of

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Speaker 1: Parliament which followed the tragic death of Nightcliffe shop owner

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Speaker 1: Linford Fike, the Government strengthened the amendments to the Bail Act,

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Speaker 1: placing community safety ahead of other factors, is what they've said. Now,

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Speaker 1: under these new laws, we know the presumption against bail's

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Speaker 1: going to apply to serious violent offenses and also changes

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Speaker 1: the test for offenses that the presumption against bail is applied.

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Speaker 1: The bill will also make amendments to the criteria considered

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Speaker 1: in bail applications for youth to remove consideration of detention

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Speaker 1: as a last resort. The changes are expected to see

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Speaker 1: an increase in the number of prisoners in our already

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Speaker 1: overburdened correctional facilities. So how will the expected increase in

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Speaker 1: prisoners be managed? Well, the Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley joins

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Speaker 1: me on the show. Good morning, and Commissioner, let's try

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Speaker 1: that again. We seem to have locked out for some

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Speaker 1: reason of that interview, so I'm just trying to getting

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Speaker 1: back on the line. I believe I've got the Commissioner

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Speaker 1: on the line. Good morning, Commissioner, Good morning, Katie. Now

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Speaker 1: tell me. We know that we are expecting an increase.

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Speaker 1: What are you expecting to see as a result of

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Speaker 1: these changes when it comes to your prisoner numbers?

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Speaker 2: Well, Katie, the short answer to that is more people

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Speaker 2: in custody, and the government's been pretty clear about that.

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Speaker 2: The expectation on us is to keep growing the system.

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Speaker 2: We're working on that obviously, and we've been working on

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Speaker 2: it for a few months now and we're working on

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Speaker 2: it still. Now. We think we'll see more people on

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Speaker 2: remand both adult and young people. We've got capacity issues

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Speaker 2: in terms of infrastructure, but we've also got plans to

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Speaker 2: keep expanding.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so how many additional bids are you trying to

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Speaker 1: bring online?

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Speaker 2: Well, Katie, when we wrote the infrastructure master Plan that

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Speaker 2: was launched last year, and I looked at all of

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Speaker 2: the data, you know, at that time, I predicted, based

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Speaker 2: on everything in front of me then, that we'd look

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Speaker 2: at about three thousand and a bit prisoners probably in

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Speaker 2: about two years time. Now. Obviously, we well exceeded that trajectory.

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Speaker 2: And today we're at two eight hundred and twenty five

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Speaker 2: adult prisoners, and I think yesterday we had about forty

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Speaker 2: five young people in detention. Now I think we'll probably

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Speaker 2: breach three thousand prisoners in the not too distant future.

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Speaker 2: I think we'll add another one hundred or so pretty

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Speaker 2: quickly as a result of these new laws, and then

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Speaker 2: the rest will be dependent on court decisions. And of course,

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Speaker 2: you know activity out in the world with crime and

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Speaker 2: police now, you know, our job is to respond to that.

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Speaker 2: I met yesterday with the Department of Infrastructure. We're working

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Speaker 2: rapidly on more plans, particularly to expand Beerrimer, but we've

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Speaker 2: also got pipe line works already in place for additional

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Speaker 2: construction out at halts and additional construction of those work

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Speaker 2: camps that we've spoken about previously.

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Speaker 1: All Right, So, as it currently stands twenty eight hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty five adult prisoners forty five youth, you're expecting

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Speaker 1: those numbers to go up to about three thousand in

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Speaker 1: terms of you know, the additional beds and how many

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Speaker 1: you've currently got. Are you gonna have to, like in

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Speaker 1: the next week or so, are you expecting to bring

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Speaker 1: online an additional one hundred beds or how does it work.

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Speaker 1: I guess for our listeners, do you bring them online

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Speaker 1: as needed or do you have them there ready to go?

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Speaker 2: Well, we do both, Katie, and at the moment, your

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Speaker 2: listeners would remember that we've the team have worked really

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Speaker 2: hard to accelerate the expansion works at Beerma Correctional Center,

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Speaker 2: and we've done that in the space of about four

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Speaker 2: or five months. So that old youth detention center that

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Speaker 2: was don Dale is now a fully functioning men's prison

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Speaker 2: with four hundred and ten prisoners in it, and we've

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Speaker 2: still got room to move in there. We've got the

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Speaker 2: capacity to bring on some extra demountables and things that

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Speaker 2: we're working on right now, and I expect those in

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Speaker 2: a few weeks time. Plus I'm looking at other options

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Speaker 2: on that site now. The bottom line is we'll do

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Speaker 2: whatever it takes. And if that means we have to

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Speaker 2: look at more mattresses on the floor, if that means

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Speaker 2: we've got to look at working closely with police on

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Speaker 2: how we manage watchhouse capacity, will do that, okay, But

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, I think Territorians expect

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Speaker 2: us to get on with the job and to make

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Speaker 2: that capacity work, and we'll do that.

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Speaker 1: I know you had really just recently moved a majority

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Speaker 1: of corrections prisoners out of those watch houses. Are you

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Speaker 1: expecting you and I need to reuse those watch housers.

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Speaker 2: Well, I meet regularly with the police, with acting Police Commissioner,

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Speaker 2: I met him a couple of days ago, and we're

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Speaker 2: working very closely on that now. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: impede police operations any further than we have been in

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Speaker 2: the past. And we worked really hard to get out

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Speaker 2: of those watchhouses. This morning, I think there's only about

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Speaker 2: twenty six prisoners in police custody waiting to transfer to us.

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Speaker 2: We worked really hard to get that number down and

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Speaker 2: we'll keep doing that. I mean, I guess Katie, for

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Speaker 2: your listeners, you know, the prison system fluctuates daily. I mean,

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Speaker 2: in the last six or seven days alone, we've had

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Speaker 2: one hundred and eight odd new receptions into our facilities,

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Speaker 2: and we have people completing their sentences and being parolled

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Speaker 2: and those sorts of things. So it is a juggling

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Speaker 2: act and it's something we work on every day. But look,

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, if we've got to

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Speaker 2: create new capacity or manage new capacity, we'll just work.

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Speaker 2: We'll make it work.

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Speaker 1: In terms of the forty five youth that are currently

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Speaker 1: in the youth facility, we know that now there is

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Speaker 1: going to be those changes where detention is no longer

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Speaker 1: the last resort when it comes to young people. What's

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Speaker 1: your capacity within the youth facility and are you expecting

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Speaker 1: those numbers to go up?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I am expecting those numbers to go up. And

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Speaker 2: the youth facility, as I said at Holts, the new one,

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Speaker 2: it's got a capacity I think about eighty six that

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Speaker 2: we've upgraded there, and I'm looking at options at the

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Speaker 2: moment to continue to do works to get that up

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Speaker 2: potentially to you know, one twenty one thirty. Now, I

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Speaker 2: don't expect to see those numbers hit one point thirty

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Speaker 2: that fast, but it is a specialized environment and we're

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Speaker 2: making capacity work there. So the other thing I wanted

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Speaker 2: to just update your listeners on Katie and to you

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Speaker 2: as well, is you might remember last time we spoke

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Speaker 2: about establishing BYO support facilities for young people run by Corrections.

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Speaker 2: Now the one down in Tenant Creek, the construction has

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Speaker 2: completed on that and I think that will open in

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Speaker 2: about two weeks time. We've already got some young people

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Speaker 2: in there as a preliminary trial. But that's I think

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Speaker 2: ten bed facility down in Berkley. Now in our Springs,

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Speaker 2: you might remember we have taken over the old Papermark

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Speaker 2: rehab facility and that's being converted into a joint bail

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Speaker 2: support accommodation facility and moving the kids out of the

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Speaker 2: Gap Road facility as well as being renovated for a

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Speaker 2: intake romand center. Now, just yesterday we got the occupancy

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Speaker 2: certificate for the bail accommodation facility there at the paper

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Speaker 2: Bark and we expect to move those kids into that

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Speaker 2: facility in the three days.

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Speaker 1: But it is going to be managed by Corrections, not

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Speaker 1: an external provider.

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Speaker 2: That's right. It's going to be managed by our Youth

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Speaker 2: Justice staff who do a great job. They're experts at

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Speaker 2: what they do. It's a different model, Katie, and we'll

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Speaker 2: be managing that as a supported bail accommodation facility. Kids

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Speaker 2: will have programs and activities there and then of course,

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Speaker 2: as we've said before, we're working on designs for youth

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Speaker 2: camps to operate from those facilities.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and I say, and you know that is

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Speaker 1: something that the community is absolutely calling for those youth camps.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you talk about a youth camp, like,

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Speaker 1: how does that work for our listeners to get a

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Speaker 1: better understanding.

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Speaker 2: Well, what we're looking at is a design model that

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Speaker 2: will take kids from our supported bio facilities or our

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Speaker 2: center's thought facilities and have them go out with cultural

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Speaker 2: advisors and cultural mentors and providers you know, on country

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Speaker 2: in locations to do you know, I guess immersed cultural

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Speaker 2: development and skills training. Now we're working through the design

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Speaker 2: of that at the moment, and where you know, our

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Speaker 2: youth justice experts are looking at all of the evidence

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Speaker 2: of what works, and I don't want to preempt their

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Speaker 2: advice to me, but we hope to have that working

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Speaker 2: in the not too distant future. Now, I guess the

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Speaker 2: challenge there is it's easy to talk about a youth camp,

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Speaker 2: but what we want to make sure is that our

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Speaker 2: staff and our providers are looking at what will work

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Speaker 2: to get these kids back on track and to give

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Speaker 2: them an opportunity. Now, and I've heard Katie and I'm

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Speaker 2: happy to talk about I guess some of the work

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Speaker 2: that's being done by our folks in youth justice on

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Speaker 2: rehabilitation services and programs, because I know there's been a

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Speaker 2: lot of questions about that, but this is about us

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Speaker 2: giving kids not only the consequences and the accountability for

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Speaker 2: their actions, but treatment and support to get their lives,

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Speaker 2: you know, in order so that they can go on.

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Speaker 1: This is something we spoke about yesterday with Auntie Billa

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Speaker 1: Warra Lee. I mean, she said, we need to get

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Speaker 1: a bit tougher, like you know, kids can't shouldn't have

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Speaker 1: you know, they shouldn't have TVs. It shouldn't be a

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Speaker 1: luxury for them when they are going into detention. She

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Speaker 1: had said she'd love to see, you know, those the

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Speaker 1: youth boot camps that are led by bicultural leaders as well.

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Speaker 1: I mean in terms of some of those things that

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Speaker 1: you know that that youth maybe do access to. There

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Speaker 1: are people in the community saying that they you know,

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Speaker 1: they want strict discipline. They were her word yesterday.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, first things first, Katie, is when

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Speaker 2: kids come into detention, they go to school, right and

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Speaker 2: you know that's better than perhaps some of these kids

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Speaker 2: are doing and attending out in the community. So firstly,

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Speaker 2: you know, every young person in detention goes to school

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Speaker 2: five days a week for forty five weeks of the year.

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Speaker 2: We focus on their literacy and numeracy and we make

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Speaker 2: sure that they are getting an education. Now, obviously, if

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Speaker 2: they go back out into the community, some of them do,

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Speaker 2: some of them don't attend school, and that's where families

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Speaker 2: and parents and other factors come into play. But at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, when you're in custody in

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Speaker 2: detention as a young person number one, go to school.

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Speaker 2: Then there's other qualifications programs and training we do. You know,

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Speaker 2: we work closely with providers to give people skills, white cards, tickets,

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Speaker 2: perhaps get a job if you're a young person hearing adulthood.

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Speaker 2: And you know, Katie, just recently during the Easter school holidays,

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Speaker 2: you know, we had I think seven young people successfully

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Speaker 2: complete you know, barista and cafe training, so they've got

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Speaker 2: an opportunity for employment. We had people deliver white card

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Speaker 2: training the seventeen young people, and you know, we also

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Speaker 2: have other educational programs. So I think it is a

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Speaker 2: little bit of a misconception that kids are in there

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Speaker 2: in a holiday camp. It's absolutely not. There's a structured day.

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Speaker 2: They go about their work. Now, what I do hear

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Speaker 2: from the community is they want to see better consequences

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Speaker 2: and discipline and I think the Chief Minister has spoken about,

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Speaker 2: you know, the rewrite of the Youth Justice Act, and

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Speaker 2: there's some work going on.

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Speaker 1: With that Commissioner. I am going to have to move

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Speaker 1: along because we're going to have to wrap up but quickly.

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Speaker 1: The Chief Finister said on the show yesterday Corrections and

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Speaker 1: Police would be reviewing who is on bail. Do you

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Speaker 1: know how many people are on bail under the supervision

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Speaker 1: of Corrections?

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Speaker 2: Well, firstly, Katie, we supervise people who are on parole

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Speaker 2: and sentenced daughters, and we monitor and do bail assessments

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Speaker 2: for electronic monitoring for people who are on EMD. Now

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Speaker 2: to answer your question, in total though as last I checked,

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Speaker 2: there's about sixteen hundred people in the territory on various

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Speaker 2: types of bail conditions. Obviously police have a primary role

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Speaker 2: there in managing those breaches. And where breaches occur with

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Speaker 2: electronic monitoring for example, or someone breaches a curfew, we

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Speaker 2: report that to police and they take action. But suffice

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Speaker 2: to say, Katie, you know we are working very closely

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Speaker 2: with the Police Commissioner and his team to see what

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Speaker 2: else can be done around accelerating and expanding that EM program.

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Speaker 1: That is a heck of a lot of people. Sixteen

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Speaker 1: hundred people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, goes to show you the extent

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Speaker 2: of the problem and the size of the challenge in

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Speaker 2: front of us. But at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: you know, many of those people would be on bail

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Speaker 2: conditions and complying. To give you a perspective, I think

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Speaker 2: there's about seven hundred plus people on electronic monitoring in

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Speaker 2: the territory. That includes people on paroles and people on bails,

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Speaker 2: but that is growing as well.

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Speaker 1: How many of them would be used, do you know?

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Speaker 2: Look off the top of my head, I would it's

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Speaker 2: a very small number. I'd say it's about forty odd.

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Speaker 2: I'd have to check the number, KDI don't quote me

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Speaker 2: on that, but the vast majority are adults. But I

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Speaker 2: guess what we're looking at is what else can be

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Speaker 2: done to make sure that the communication and the information

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Speaker 2: exchange between corrections and police is as seamless as we

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Speaker 2: can make it, and when people do breach the conditions

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Speaker 2: of their EM, police have access to that information immediately. Ye.

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Speaker 1: Why is that not already able to happen?

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Speaker 2: Well, it does happen pretty routinely, and what we're looking

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Speaker 2: at is how we can tighten it further. So the

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Speaker 2: electronic monitoring service Katie is provided by a company who

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Speaker 2: run the technology, and then our Corrections officers and police

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Speaker 2: can access that data. But suffice to say, though, we

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Speaker 2: think there's better ways that we can join up that

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Speaker 2: chain of digital information flow and we're working on that now.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, I'll be keen to get an update

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Speaker 1: on that when there is one available. Corrections Commissioner Matthew Varley,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time this morning. Sorry

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Speaker 1: we didn't have.

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Speaker 2: More time, No worries, Katie all the best.

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Speaker 1: Thank you,