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Speaker 1: The Wiggles acknowledged the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia

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Speaker 1: and their connections to land, see and community. We pay

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Speaker 1: our respects to elders, past, present and emerging.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to.

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Speaker 3: Sorry sir, welcome, Welcome to to Wiggle Wiggle Talk Talk.

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Speaker 3: It's a pod podcast for that that wasn't right. Welcome

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Speaker 3: to Wiggle Talk everybody. It's a twin themed.

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Speaker 2: Episode, which is why you're saying everything twice. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 2: double double happy happy like woggle Wogger. Now, we had

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Speaker 2: a twin themed episode last week with Dear Wiggles. That

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Speaker 2: was with John and Caterina. Yes, and we realized there's

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Speaker 2: a whole other conversation we didn't get to. So today

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Speaker 2: we are talking twins. Yes, you know all about twins, Lockie,

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Speaker 2: but this is from a very specific angle. Now, our

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Speaker 2: guests has lived twins from every direction. She's a twin,

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Speaker 2: she grew up with twin brothers, yep, and now she's

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Speaker 2: pregnant with twins. Unbelievable, incredible.

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Speaker 3: But before we get to this amazing story, Simon, have

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Speaker 3: you ever done a hyperbaric chamber?

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Speaker 2: A hyperbaric chamber? No? I never what is that. No,

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Speaker 2: I don't actually know what that is.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know, but I wanted to. Well, I got

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Speaker 3: told to you and might want to try have a

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Speaker 3: go for my health.

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Speaker 2: Health professional told you, Yes, yes they did a random

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Speaker 2: on the street.

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Speaker 3: But it's good, can be good for a whole range

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Speaker 3: of things, but good for you. It can rekick your

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Speaker 3: immune system.

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Speaker 2: You have been a bit worried about your immune system.

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Speaker 3: A blade yep, but this is a chamber now. Luckily

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Speaker 3: for me, being a bit scared of chastrophobia, I didn't

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Speaker 3: book when I turned up the giant what looks like

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Speaker 3: a submarine with a full locked oh like spin the

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Speaker 3: handle kind of lock door thing which you lie in.

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Speaker 3: That's the proper one. I booked the tent, which is

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Speaker 3: a tent but with double zips and it pours in

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Speaker 3: pure oxygen and you're sitting in it for an hour.

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Speaker 2: In my head, I'm thinking water but no, no.

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Speaker 3: Well, oxygen with little readers on the side like the pressure.

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Speaker 3: But what is all new? When I went, she said

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Speaker 3: you've booked the tent and I'm like, great, that's good

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Speaker 3: because I can sit up and that thing looks.

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Speaker 2: Scary that I mean, you can't get in a lift.

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Speaker 2: No dreadful.

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Speaker 3: So I really had to take some deep breaths. And

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Speaker 3: the lady was amazing, and she said, look, let's just try.

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Speaker 3: You sit up in it. As it the air goes

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Speaker 3: up and the pressure builds. Your ears pop. It's all

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Speaker 3: pressurized in.

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Speaker 2: There, and so the tent expands a bit.

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Speaker 3: Then it expands it so she said, you actually have

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Speaker 3: more room, but you've just got to get to the

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Speaker 3: part where I can.

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Speaker 2: Sip you up both hips.

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Speaker 3: But well, you see the first zip go up, and

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Speaker 3: then obviously so the air doesn't leak, you hear the

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Speaker 3: next one go up. And as soon as she started

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Speaker 3: doing the next one, I said, hey, you can talk

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Speaker 3: because you can hear each other through that. I said, sorry, queen,

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Speaker 3: to stop you. And I had a bit of a moment.

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Speaker 3: She said, no worries, you don't even have to do

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Speaker 3: it today. I'm like, no, come on, let's try. The

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Speaker 3: second zip goes. I just closed my eyes and then

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Speaker 3: it was incredibly relaxing. I almost fell asleep, which is

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Speaker 3: what is really good to do.

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Speaker 2: So if you're in the submarine, oh is that pitch black? No?

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Speaker 3: No, no, there was a there was a lady reading

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Speaker 3: in it. It was she was relaxed. You can't take

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Speaker 3: you you can't take your phone.

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Speaker 2: You couldn't.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, yeah you can't. You don't.

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Speaker 2: Don't take your clothes off. I was not all.

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Speaker 3: The benefit of the real one is that you can

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Speaker 3: number one, depressure, raize yourself. Okay, but you can also

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Speaker 3: you have earphones where you talk directly to the person working,

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Speaker 3: so you can have but in the ten you just

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Speaker 3: have to speak through well looks the looks a little

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Speaker 3: window and having a moment. But what scared me was

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Speaker 3: she said, I said, what happens if I do freak out,

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Speaker 3: I'll just I'll just unzip it in a panic. She's like, well,

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Speaker 3: you can't because you'll perforate your ear drums, oh, because

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Speaker 3: of the pressure. And I'm like, well that's just made

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Speaker 3: a little slightly worse.

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Speaker 2: But I did.

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Speaker 3: I controlled myself. I had a lovely hour.

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Speaker 2: Books another one. You're in again. I think you think

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Speaker 2: you'll ever go to the submarine.

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Speaker 3: No, the only benefit of the submarine is that goes

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Speaker 3: to higher level.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do you feel a benefit straight away or you've

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Speaker 2: got to do this multiple times to actually feel like you.

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Speaker 3: I think it's one of those things you do in

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Speaker 3: a tight little cluster and then you give it a rest.

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Speaker 2: So you're in a cluster stage. Yeah. I think it

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Speaker 2: was very relaxing. That's good.

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Speaker 3: If anything, it stops, he stops you for a second,

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Speaker 3: just to breathe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that lady was reading a book. Surely that's not

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Speaker 2: the point. Is one point just to be in your

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Speaker 2: own thoughts at the same time?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, probably, or fall asleep. Ideally, it's hard to just

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Speaker 3: fall asleep sitting up, so that is the benefit.

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Speaker 2: Of the light proper. So you're in again soon. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: in the tent. Yeah, you're back in there. When I

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Speaker 2: go camping, I can't possibly go. Yeah, anyway, you're a

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Speaker 2: portal in the tent.

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Speaker 3: It's not so you do have to go before because then, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it takes a few minutes to deep pressure.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm keen to find out more. I thank you

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Speaker 2: to hear how you go after you finish your cluster.

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Speaker 3: Thank you if i'm really if you notice ge he's.

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Speaker 2: Talking clear o, your skin looks good.

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Speaker 3: Oh, thank you. Oh maybe it did work. Anyway, Shall

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Speaker 3: we get onto it. I think we should today we

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Speaker 3: are talked.

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Speaker 2: Good.

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Speaker 3: See I told you it hasn't worked.

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Speaker 2: Yet I'm going to do too more.

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Speaker 3: We are joined by Jesse Stevens. She is a writer

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Speaker 3: and author and one of the voices behind Mama Mia

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Speaker 3: out Loud. Jesse also is a mum. She's a twin,

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Speaker 3: has twin brothers, and now has twins on the way.

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Speaker 2: We're going to get into the public fascination with twins,

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Speaker 2: the comments, the labels and comparisons, and we'll dig into

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Speaker 2: the rare gold in Jesse's story, what her parents got

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Speaker 2: right raising twins twice. You're really lucky. Yep, ready, you're

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Speaker 2: a man with twins. Yes, let's get into it. Jesse Stevens,

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Speaker 2: Welcome to wiggle Talk.

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Speaker 4: Oh I'm so excited to be here. I told my

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Speaker 4: two and a half year old I was going to

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Speaker 4: wiggletown today.

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Speaker 3: Well, you'll have to come and get a photoenn.

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Speaker 4: Oh, she will actually lose it. She was very, very excited.

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Speaker 3: We we're talking all things twins today. But you're a twin.

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Speaker 3: I am your sister, Claire, You've got twin brothers. Would

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Speaker 3: you just take our listeners back? What was growing up

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Speaker 3: like with twins? Twins?

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Speaker 4: Ideal? It like it was just the best. We played

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Speaker 4: a lot of sport, and because we had it was

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Speaker 4: so fair because it was two sets of identical twins.

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Speaker 4: So I chose a brother, Claire chose a brother. I

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Speaker 4: chose a stronger brother. Yeah, and we would play everything

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Speaker 4: from like soccer and netball to basketball to hockey. We

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Speaker 4: had a park next door we would just.

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Speaker 2: Was everything a draw.

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Speaker 4: I'm more competitive, So there were a lot of thrown

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Speaker 4: tennis rackets. They never won because I never let it

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Speaker 4: get to that stage because I threw in the tower.

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Speaker 4: But there was a stage as well where we looked

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Speaker 4: like quads, like everywhere we went out because they were

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Speaker 4: two and a half years younger, where girls so in

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Speaker 4: primary school were all the same height, exactly the same coloring.

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Speaker 4: And I remember we would go to shopping centers and

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Speaker 4: get stared at and I was like, why is everyone

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Speaker 4: staring at us? Thinking you know that we were completely normal,

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Speaker 4: but it looked like we were times four. We just yeah,

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Speaker 4: all looked exactly the.

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Speaker 2: Same and identical twins, but you didn't. Yes you thought

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Speaker 2: you fraternal.

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Speaker 4: Yes, we thought we were fraternal, because back then, if

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Speaker 4: you were in two separate sacks with your own placenta,

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Speaker 4: then doctors generally went your fraternal It was two eggs,

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Speaker 4: so they used to say about mum. They were like, oh,

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Speaker 4: you can only have twins. Every time you late, you

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Speaker 4: get the two eggs. But then we did tests as

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Speaker 4: adults because we had a lot of people say, there's

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Speaker 4: just no way you're for fraternal. You don't look like siblings,

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Speaker 4: you look like twins. So we did a test and

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Speaker 4: it went, no, you're identical. My brothers are even more

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Speaker 4: alike than we are. When they were born, they were

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Speaker 4: exactly the same weight there I think the same height.

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Speaker 4: Now have gone into the same industry, all of that.

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Speaker 4: And they tested two identical. So I think the chances

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Speaker 4: are something like one in something million, Like it's very

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Speaker 4: rare to have it too identical.

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Speaker 2: This isn't a gene pool thing. This is like.

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Speaker 4: Complete chance, yes, because it's a random egg that splits.

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Speaker 4: Whereas fraternal, I think there is a hereditary element or

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Speaker 4: a genetic element. I know, I'm like study us, hello,

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Speaker 4: but fraternal they kind of that would make sense.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, and now you're very very much pregnant with

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Speaker 3: your own twins.

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Speaker 4: Yes, And so when I went to my appointment to

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Speaker 4: I was seven weeks. You check if there's a heartbeat,

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Speaker 4: and I said to my husband, I was like, I'm

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Speaker 4: going to don't worry about that scan. I'll go and

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Speaker 4: check whatever. So I went over to the scan and

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Speaker 4: the woman had a funny look on her face, and

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Speaker 4: then she kind of kept checking and then she said,

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Speaker 4: all right, so here's your baby in the sack with

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Speaker 4: the placenta and here's another baby in the sack with

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Speaker 4: the placenta. You're having twins. And I just I like

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Speaker 4: to remember that My first response was just such excitement

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Speaker 4: and joy, like that is what it was. It never

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Speaker 4: crossed my mind because I went, we're identical. It's random.

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Speaker 4: And I knew that I was having the two separate sacks,

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Speaker 4: so I guess I didn't know if it was identical

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Speaker 4: or fraternal at that stage. And I just couldn't believe it.

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Speaker 4: And then I would tell people and they'd go, well,

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Speaker 4: of course, you're having twins, and I was like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 4: it's not how it works yet. It is actually really

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Speaker 4: weird that I'm having twins.

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Speaker 3: You couldn't see the screen like on.

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Speaker 4: The No, she hadn't shown me yet, and because it

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Speaker 4: was so little, she just was kind of doing her

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Speaker 4: own thing, and the screen was facing her and the

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Speaker 4: way she said it was really interesting because she kind

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Speaker 4: of went, there's one baby and there's another, and she

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Speaker 4: let me react how I wanted. And since speaking to

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Speaker 4: a lot of twin parents, I really appreciate how sensitive

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Speaker 4: she was in that moment because I've spoken to so

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Speaker 4: many parents whose response was total overwhelm or panic or fear.

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Speaker 4: Because what came next and what has come in the

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Speaker 4: month since has been such an interesting journey of like,

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Speaker 4: how are we going to do this? Like logistically, financially,

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Speaker 4: we don't have enough hands. No one plans for twins, right,

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Speaker 4: and so it's always this kind of shark and I'm

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Speaker 4: in all the you know, multiple Facebook groups and whatever,

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Speaker 4: and I just think, yeah, it's something you don't think

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Speaker 4: about necessarily until you're in it, and people are very

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Speaker 4: honest with you when when you're in it. And I've

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Speaker 4: had the perspective of being a twin, but this I

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Speaker 4: never knew like this, I didn't have enough appreciation for

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Speaker 4: my parents, who were teachers, had just bought a tiny

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Speaker 4: little house and then they're told for the second time

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Speaker 4: that they're having twins, and Mum said that Dad's the

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Speaker 4: color of Dad's face, like it just all drained, and

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Speaker 4: that it was years before he kind of was able

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Speaker 4: to accept it, like it's just shock, absolute shock.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, how was your partner when he.

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Speaker 4: Heard about color drained from.

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Speaker 2: Same as you're dead?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he was. And I think it's it's interesting it's

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Speaker 4: often the men who were maybe more overwhelmed by it.

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Speaker 4: I think that the woman, it's so real already because

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Speaker 4: it's happening to you. I have had a lot of

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Speaker 4: fears about the pregnancy, about health, about high risk, about

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Speaker 4: all of that, so you're kind of there. But I

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Speaker 4: think for the man, it's kind of like, oh, we're

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Speaker 4: just skipping forward a lot of years here. We thought

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Speaker 4: we were going from one to two. That's kind of manageable, right,

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Speaker 4: like we've done it once, but this is like kind

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Speaker 4: of starting over where you go. You can't comprehend how

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Speaker 4: much harder it's going to be. And he was also

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Speaker 4: conscious of what impact it would have on our toddler

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Speaker 4: and like how you keep her included? And I think

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Speaker 4: he's had a lot of fear. I'm really glad he's

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Speaker 4: talked about it and he saw throughout this pregnancy, he's

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Speaker 4: gone and spoken to a psychologist and he's been really

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Speaker 4: proactive with his mental health because I know a lot

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Speaker 4: of men who after twins put their head down and

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Speaker 4: they're really supportive, but they're not okay either.

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Speaker 2: They worry about they take it out in the seven

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Speaker 2: seat car. They've got to get that express it.

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Speaker 4: It was so funny. As soon as we found out,

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Speaker 4: we both kind of were walking around in circles and

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Speaker 4: he just goes, I need to call the bank, and

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Speaker 4: I was like, what are you going to tell the bank?

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Speaker 4: I'm having twins? Okay. Like the list of things we

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Speaker 4: had to do was very strange because for some reason,

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Speaker 4: car is the first thing.

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Speaker 2: Car.

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Speaker 4: She's just go to very unusual places.

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Speaker 3: I want to ask you about. I saw in one

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Speaker 3: of your articles that you spoke about the worries of

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Speaker 3: delivery and how and how scary that can be, and

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Speaker 3: that was I mean, there's two sets of people in

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Speaker 3: the room. Yeah, so there's so many people, which surprised me.

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Speaker 3: But when Lulu came out first.

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Speaker 2: You would have been a big help to look at,

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Speaker 2: huge huge help.

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Speaker 3: But there was a slight moment with Lottie because she

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Speaker 3: was probably I think a little bit too high. But

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Speaker 3: the calmness from the doctor was just to mate, Lulu

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Speaker 3: was taken away. There were so many people. I wasn't

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Speaker 3: even thinking about Lulu because I was just trying to

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Speaker 3: But then he's just like, look, let's just have a

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Speaker 3: rest for a second. Yeah, danna have a rest. It's okay.

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Speaker 3: But it was just the calmness and the skill.

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Speaker 4: And you're so different to a singleton, right, because it's

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Speaker 4: like my toddler. I had this what I consider a

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Speaker 4: great birth, and it was calm, and there were two

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Speaker 4: people in that, like it was my husband and a

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Speaker 4: midwife and an obstetrician, and she came out and she

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Speaker 4: was full term. And you take it all for granted, right,

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Speaker 4: You think that that's just how it goes for everyone.

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Speaker 4: And now going, okay, So once I give birth, I'm halfway.

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Speaker 4: There was still an behalf of the birth to go.

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Speaker 4: And I was twin b So I was born second

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Speaker 4: and my mom's and I'm so lucky because mom has

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Speaker 4: done vaginally, she's done C section, she's done formula, she's

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Speaker 4: done breathfeaded like she's just done everything. But I was

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Speaker 4: the twin that was born feet first, elbow stuck, like

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Speaker 4: all of I was the mess. And so I suppose

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Speaker 4: I went into it probably a little bit more like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I not it can be done because my mom did it.

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Speaker 4: But the fear of and you know, I'm sure you

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Speaker 4: and your wife would have gone through this that you

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Speaker 4: sit there in those appointments, and with a singleton, you know,

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Speaker 4: there's a joy and excitement, but with twins, it's we

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Speaker 4: need to talk about risks immediately, like we need to

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Speaker 4: talk about the chances that one won't make it. We're

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Speaker 4: going to talk about preclampsia, gestational diabetes. You've got double

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Speaker 4: the risk pre term labor. Did it like, and I

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Speaker 4: know why they have to tell you. And I don't

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Speaker 4: think a lot of people get out of a twin

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Speaker 4: pregnancy without hitting one of those complications. But you're immediately

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Speaker 4: thrust into a high risk pregnancy, which is really scary.

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Speaker 4: There's more scans, there's the appointments suggest insane. I got

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Speaker 4: at twenty eight twenty nine weeks, I got diagnosed with

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Speaker 4: gestational diabetes. And with twins, they're really conscious of you're

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Speaker 4: putting on weight and like eating lots to obviously sustain life.

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Speaker 4: But I'm on the strictest diet of my life, Like

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Speaker 4: I can't eat you know, A banana. So it's like

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Speaker 4: you're on really strict with carbs and sugar and blah

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Speaker 4: blah blah, all for the well being of your babies.

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Speaker 4: But the mental load of that and then the dietitian

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Speaker 4: appointments and everything is like, yeah, it's incredibly incredibly overwhelming.

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Speaker 2: Does that past ones you've had, Yeah, it just disappears. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And so with twins, I think it's so weird. Every

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Speaker 4: time I heard someone say they had it, I was like,

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Speaker 4: that sounds terrible because you'd be their baby shower and

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Speaker 4: they could have a cupcake and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 4: come on. And then when I got the call, I

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Speaker 4: was like, no, no, no, don't take hot chips from me. Don't, don't, don't.

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Speaker 4: But because I have two placentas, the diabetes like lives

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Speaker 4: in the placenter sort of, So I don't know if

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Speaker 4: it's one twins fault. I think it might be one.

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Speaker 4: I'd like to test just so that I know, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: let's blame the boy. And so the placenter is kind

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Speaker 4: of screwing with the blood sugar levels. But if I

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Speaker 4: were just to eat normally or go and have those

334
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Speaker 4: chips or whatever, it's like giving those babies lots of

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Speaker 4: lollies and so when they're born they have a real

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Speaker 4: sugar crash and there's lots of complications that they can have.

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Speaker 4: So the second you are told it's like, this is

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Speaker 4: about managing with diet. A lot of people have to

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Speaker 4: go on insulin and your placentas are kind of working

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Speaker 4: against so it's like you have this chronic health condition

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Speaker 4: alongside pregnancy, alongside increased discomfort. From thirty weeks, you're measuring

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Speaker 4: full term, like it's just and the twins.

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Speaker 2: Normally come early. That yeah, is there a higher risk

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Speaker 2: than of a c section as well? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so they often come early because your body two

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Speaker 4: just goes like I'm now I have more baby in

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Speaker 4: placenta than I ever had with Luna. Yes, so there's

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Speaker 4: pre term things like gestational diabetes, high risk of preterm

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Speaker 4: all of that, and my mum warned me of this,

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Speaker 4: and she's right. She said a lot of doctors are

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Speaker 4: scared of twins, so they would prefer to probably do

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Speaker 4: a C section to just go let's get them out safely,

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Speaker 4: which is totally fair because you can have twin A

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Speaker 4: come out fine, then twin B. This is why they

355
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Speaker 4: say you got to get an epidural comes out like

356
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Speaker 4: I did with just all limbs and whatever, and it

357
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Speaker 4: can be really dicey, like you know, you don't kind

358
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Speaker 4: of want to risk it too much. So Yeah, having

359
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Speaker 4: had such a calm, not a lot of intervention or

360
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Speaker 4: whatever with Luna, it's just it's a lot to consider

361
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Speaker 4: to go. It's going to be a very different type

362
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Speaker 4: of perth.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, do you think you'll not be better but just

364
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Speaker 3: be okay with twin children because you were twin yourself.

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Speaker 4: I wanted that. I think what I will appreciate is

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Speaker 4: how good it is for them, Like I know what

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Speaker 4: a gift it is, and even the feeling of them

368
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Speaker 4: being in there and they're always kicking each other. The

369
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Speaker 4: girl is nuts. She just likes she's always punching him

370
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Speaker 4: in the head and he kind of kicks back, and

371
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Speaker 4: I go, they're not even lonely in there, Like they're

372
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Speaker 4: going to come out bearing witness to that relationship. I

373
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Speaker 4: am so excited about out and knowing how much it's

374
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Speaker 4: enriched my life, Like being a twin is my favorite

375
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Speaker 4: thing about my life. It's the best. I've loved her

376
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Speaker 4: every single day, and same with I know my brothers

377
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 4: have felt the same, and not every set of twins

378
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:18,439
Speaker 4: is close necessarily, but it's just so special. And to

379
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Speaker 4: go into situations like primary school or preschool or whatever,

380
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Speaker 4: it's like I've always had a mate there. I'm so

381
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Speaker 4: excited for that.

382
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Speaker 2: But a little bit to get to that point.

383
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Speaker 4: There's a little bit to get to that point. And

384
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Speaker 4: the I think about with lunar at night and you're

385
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Speaker 4: feeding her and you're staring into horizon. There's a slowness

386
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Speaker 4: and a quietness to the newborn bubble with one that

387
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 4: I'm scared I won't get with two like that. It

388
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 4: will be a bit more frenetic and kind of chaotic

389
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Speaker 4: and loud and all of those things.

390
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Speaker 2: You never get a full moment. Just yeah, you've mentioned

391
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Speaker 2: that too, lucky, and.

392
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Speaker 3: I want to ask one's done is really big things

393
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Speaker 3: because she had Jasper yes first, Yeah.

394
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Speaker 2: Those beautiful.

395
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Speaker 3: It's just bedtime and reading a book to him and

396
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 3: feeding him and just holding. And she always says to me,

397
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Speaker 3: I wish you got to see.

398
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Speaker 2: What one was like, because all I know is why

399
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Speaker 2: I's too.

400
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 3: But it does feel like she's always said, you'd never

401
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 3: quite get to finish a moment or even in discipline

402
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,359
Speaker 3: or which I'm wondering if you remember back to you

403
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 3: being an early twin and childhood, but yeah, you never

404
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 3: get to read a book without someone going where's my book?

405
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,680
Speaker 3: Or come and give me a hug or or Discipline

406
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,159
Speaker 3: is a big one too, because you never get to

407
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 3: quite finish the point you're trying to make before something

408
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,919
Speaker 3: distracts you. And exactly multiple kids anyway, I suppose.

409
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Speaker 4: But with twins, I think it's like I look back

410
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 4: at my childhood and I don't I never noticed that. No,

411
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,239
Speaker 4: I do think every now and then I go, I

412
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 4: remember I was sick from school and Mum picked just

413
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Speaker 4: me up, Like I kind of go, wow, that was

414
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Speaker 4: a moment where I felt the one on one time

415
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Speaker 4: that Luna's got feel a grief that that's going to

416
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 4: be really hard to give to the twins. And I

417
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 4: think a lot about how that impacts people's sense of independence,

418
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,959
Speaker 4: And I don't think it's altogether a bad thing. I

419
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,400
Speaker 4: think you grow up with a real sense of you're

420
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 4: really good at negotiating, You're really good at understanding yourself

421
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 4: as part of a team. You have to be good

422
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 4: at sharing. You can't have to just fall into that

423
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 4: dynamic because that's the way life is. And I don't

424
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 4: remember resenting that growing up, Like a lot of it

425
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 4: was just Claire, me and Mum and loved it like

426
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 4: that was I didn't know any different. But then I

427
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 4: didn't have a Singleton sibling in the mix. Yeah, so

428
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 4: I wonder how I would have felt if I had

429
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 4: seen that. But it's a totally different parenting experience.

430
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Speaker 2: It's got to be what do you think Luna understands

431
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 2: about you having?

432
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 4: She is very excited. She talks about brother and sister

433
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 4: a lot. He gives them tickles, she boops them on

434
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 4: that she thinks she's booping them on the nose. We

435
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 4: had the weirdest experience a few months ago where she

436
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 4: was talking to my tummy and she used the boy

437
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 4: name that we'd chosen but we hadn't told her, Like

438
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 4: she just called him that and we were like, did

439
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 4: she just say that? And we checked. It was weird.

440
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 4: It was on New Year's if it was really late.

441
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 4: It was like she just kind of half asleep and

442
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 4: we just went, Okay, this is toddler psychic wow stuff.

443
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:33,360
Speaker 4: This is so creepy. But she's very attuned and I

444
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 4: think we don't like using the word bossy, but the

445
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 4: boss ah. She was like, she is, and I'm excited

446
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 4: that she gets. For a while, I thought it was

447
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 4: going to be two boys because you do the blood

448
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 4: test and they basically tell you you've got the boy chromosome.

449
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 4: And I was like, I'm convincing i'n be two boys.

450
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 4: And I thought, oh, I hope Luna doesn't feel like

451
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 4: it's her versus them. And then when I found out

452
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 4: it was a girl and a boy, maybe there was

453
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 4: a bit of relief that I went, oh, Okay, the

454
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 4: dynamics are going to be different. And because we were

455
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 4: girls and boys, I quite like that this is totally, yes,

456
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 4: a totally different thing that we get to have the

457
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 4: other experience of girl boy twins.

458
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:27,360
Speaker 2: Different. Yeah, I'd like to ask you about your mom

459
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 2: and your mom's reaction.

460
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 4: She just could not stop laughing. She could not stop laughing,

461
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 4: sucked in. I like, now you get it, and just

462
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 4: I feel like the last eight months or whatever, I've

463
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 4: just gone like, how how on earth did you do?

464
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 4: I can't And she's like, oh, we joined some weird

465
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 4: twin society for a free pram and I'm like, go mom,

466
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:05,479
Speaker 4: and I just watched her, like, I think, you know,

467
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,400
Speaker 4: they say they give twins to people who can handle them,

468
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 4: which is just something something you say. But my mum

469
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 4: is it's like good luck when A Yeah, exactly exactly.

470
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 4: She is the opposite to type A. She is so like,

471
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 4: get through it, lean into the chaos. When my brothers

472
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 4: came along, she said, you can't breastfeed a second set

473
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 4: of twins with twin toddlers. We're going to do formula

474
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:34,479
Speaker 4: like so to have that grace and that kindness, and like,

475
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 4: my mom's not the type of person to ever kind

476
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 4: of have an opinion about anything we do. I just

477
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 4: feel so lucky that I've got her. Like I'll lay

478
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 4: in bed and go this acid refluxing and she's like, oh,

479
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 4: I slept sitting up for four months or what like

480
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 4: it's bringing back memories for her too, And I think

481
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 4: that's been really quite nice. I think she looks at

482
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 4: it and it kind of brings back that period for her.

483
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 4: But I feel very lucky that she's going to be

484
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 4: there kind of giving me. I think it'll all come back,

485
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 4: like I said.

486
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And she's happy to be hands on.

487
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 4: Oh, she's so so she retired pretty much as soon

488
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 4: as our girls, like my and my twin sister have

489
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 4: girls five months apart, and she retired, like pretty much

490
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 4: retired and just hangs out with the girls. She's been

491
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 4: so interested watching toddlers who aren't twins and wanting to

492
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 4: play with you and the level of engagement and all

493
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 4: of that, and she's like, I never had to do this.

494
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 4: You just played with each other. So there are parts

495
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 4: where she goes, it's actually easier with twins because they

496
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 4: entertain each other, and I think, yeah, it's been good

497
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 4: for her to see watching Matilda and Luna learn each

498
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 4: other and pull each other there and whatever. Mum just goes,

499
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 4: that's not it with twins. They are just they don't

500
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 4: ever meet, like they don't you don't watch them kind

501
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 4: of suss each other. They just have this intuitive bond

502
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 4: that is like they are one. Like she talks about

503
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 4: us sucking each other's thumbs and me thinking her body

504
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 4: was my body for ages, and the way we thought

505
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 4: is that we used to put our foreheads together and

506
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 4: just push, like really weird stuff.

507
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 3: She was about to ask you if you thought like goober, Yeah.

508
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we did. But we were quite all

509
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 4: four of us. I think we're quite placid, and I

510
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 4: think we kind of had to be. We knew that

511
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 4: there was no space in the house for someone to

512
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 4: be I was the naughtiest of all of us. So

513
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 4: I think I've got some karma.

514
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, is that knowing what you were? Like? Yeah, looking

515
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 2: back about what your journey's going to be, do you

516
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: think Okay.

517
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think, like I'm now seeing

518
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 4: my whole childhood from their perspective, and all the sport

519
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 4: and all the extracurriculus stuff. I just go, I can't

520
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 4: believe they did that and with less resources than what

521
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 4: I have. Like I'm older than my mum and dad were,

522
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 4: and I just am like, yeah, in awe of them

523
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 4: both that I just have this way deeper understanding of

524
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 4: like what they went through.

525
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 3: I think early primary, did you stick with your sister?

526
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, so kindergarten were in the same year, and then

527
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 4: after that we went into separate so you won. Mam

528
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 4: asked for separate classes, and so because mum and dad

529
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 4: were teachers, they were very involved in trying to work

530
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 4: out how to do that properly because they wanted to foster.

531
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 4: We were very very shy, and I don't know if

532
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 4: this is a twin thing that you can go into

533
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 4: a room kind of sitting in the corner and you

534
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 4: don't have to practice social skills I think to the

535
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 4: same extent as you do if you walk into kindergarten alone.

536
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 4: So Mum was very understanding that we might need that

537
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 4: for Kindie and then she went, all right, go and

538
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 4: find yourselves like in different classes.

539
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 2: Can you remember what that was like as a feeling.

540
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 4: I'm definitely scary, definitely, and I was very reserved, and

541
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 4: I remember my grandmother saying to me, it's okay to

542
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 4: wait for people to come to you if you feel shy,

543
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 4: and I see shyness in even Luna and my brothers

544
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 4: were the same. I think just a bit. You can

545
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 4: keep to yourselves a bit as twins, and that can

546
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 4: also weird. They are the kids out because they're like,

547
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 4: there's something impenetrable about you, And especially with girls, I

548
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 4: think as you grow a bit older, a lot of

549
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 4: end of primary school high school girls want one best

550
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 4: friend and they get very confused when they know where

551
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 4: the hierarchy is, and it's like I had a built

552
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,959
Speaker 4: in one. And so there was this weird dynamics sometimes

553
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 4: of like someone wanting to separate you or whatever it is.

554
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 4: But I think it was important, definitely throughout primary school

555
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 4: for us to one of us to join the choir

556
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 4: and one of us to do a bit more art

557
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 4: or something and see where that landed us, which was

558
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 4: exactly the same place.

559
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 2: What was it like when you and your sister started

560
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: making other friends?

561
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 4: That was hard too, because sometimes you'd make a friend

562
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 4: who you got along with more and maybe they don't

563
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 4: like your sister as much. Or I remember primary school

564
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 4: birthday parties, one would get invited and the other one wouldn't,

565
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 4: and that would break your heart and happen in high

566
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 4: school too, but I think it has to happen. It

567
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 4: wasn't till our twenties that my sister moved overseas for

568
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 4: a bit and met people not as a twin, And

569
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 4: that was weird that it was like no one knew

570
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 4: she was a twin for ages, and it's like I

571
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 4: came to visit and I was like, excuse me, I

572
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 4: am an integral part of your identity. You may have

573
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 4: heard of me, and everyone was like, we actually don't

574
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 4: really care about you, Like well, this is just a

575
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 4: friend and you're just the random twin, which I think

576
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 4: was also really good. But it's a funny thing. I

577
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 4: guess you negotiate with your whole life is the certainly codependence,

578
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 4: but how you become your own people, with your own

579
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 4: goals and your own ambitions and stuff.

580
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 3: Not emotionally ready for any of them.

581
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: Lock. You struggled with Lulu a lot of going to school.

582
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 4: In the same class, and they are in the same class.

583
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 3: Yeah for Kingdym, but I'm really interested in that. I

584
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 3: can see why because they need to find their own independence.

585
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 3: And Lulu already drop off started a few days ago,

586
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 3: was like okay, because Mom stays for drop off, Downe

587
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 3: stays just to give one little last hug. And then

588
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 3: Lulu yesterday he said Mummy, you can go now. But

589
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 3: Lottie was a complete opposite. Yeah, it's like, please don't go.

590
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 3: So it's already.

591
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 4: And do you find that there's a dynamic where one

592
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 4: one's a bit more of a leader or one. We

593
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 4: had this in both our sets where you know, an

594
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 4: auntie would come over and go, how's school going, and

595
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 4: you'd go, jesse answers and same with my brothers, and

596
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 4: I remember them going, we've got to hear Jack speak,

597
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 4: like because there's one twin that kind of goes I'll

598
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 4: answer for us, or one gets to be more quiet

599
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 4: or protects the other. Maybe because you're just used to

600
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 4: that dynamic. I think that actually changes for a lifetime.

601
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 3: It always changes. Yes, so interesting. Everything chops and changes

602
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 3: with you think what is going to be go that path,

603
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 3: and then it actually just throws you and they but yeah,

604
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 3: where does that the stage of everything being competitive?

605
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 4: Yes?

606
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, everything is Come and lie with me, come and

607
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 3: read this. Why do you get that?

608
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's tricky, which is also I guess very natural

609
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 4: working out that dynamic. And I think the other thing

610
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 4: with twins is that you know that if one is struggling,

611
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 4: the other instinctively often knows that they can't. Like there's

612
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 4: an equilibrium through our lives that it's like if one

613
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 4: was having a really bad year, the other one was like,

614
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 4: this isn't my moment to fall in ape like it

615
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 4: was very a seesaw. Even now, I think it's like

616
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 4: we balance each other out emotionally.

617
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 2: Interesting for you. The insights you have going to parenting

618
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 2: with twins knowing that, okay, if one is always speaking

619
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:28,479
Speaker 2: to the other. You need to make sure the other

620
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: one has a voice. That's a head start. Yeah, I

621
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 2: think in understanding the life of twins.

622
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, and understanding the feeling of it, Like Mum would

623
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 4: say she'd pick us up from school and ask a

624
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 4: few questions and it was really hard to get the

625
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 4: other because the other one would kind of talk and

626
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 4: talk and she was like, oh, I want to hear

627
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 4: you know, without discouraging the stories of the other.

628
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 2: But knowing that you will have that, you'll be able

629
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 2: to sort of facilitate that that's something that will happen.

630
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 4: Yeah. And I recall being in early primary school and

631
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 4: hating being called the twins. That was another thing that

632
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 4: everyone called us a twin and I went, no one

633
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 4: knows our names. They think we're a freak show. They

634
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 4: would call us twinies, blah blah blah, and I was like,

635
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 4: why don't I get a name like And I never

636
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 4: felt that from my parents. I felt that from everyone

637
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 4: else that it was like this unit. And then I

638
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 4: felt as though if Claire did something, maybe not she

639
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 4: would never naughty, but like if she did something that

640
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 4: I wouldn't have done, I felt like it was on

641
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 4: me and that we moved through the world as this unit.

642
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 4: It's taken a lot of time to kind of go. No,

643
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 4: we take accountability for our own actions.

644
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 3: We even say their names together thinking about that.

645
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, just always yeah, it was always Jesse and Claire,

646
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 4: which is weird, like it's almost a yeah yeah, yeah.

647
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 4: And my brothers are Jack and Nick and they were

648
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 4: Jack Nicholas named after the famous golf that's my dad.

649
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 2: That's good, that's very good. You have to get something

650
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: out of it.

651
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 4: He was stoked by that. It was that or Greg

652
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 4: and Norman, Jack and Nick. He was stoked about Tiger

653
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 4: under Woods. He was, Yeah, he was very excited by that.

654
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 3: Straight from the left hospital, you get double trouble. Yes, gracious,

655
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 3: it's really frustrated.

656
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 4: Did you find yeah, did you find that a bit annoying?

657
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 2: No, it it is.

658
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think NFL a talking back more than I did.

659
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 3: But you're like, it's actually double double happy.

660
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 2: When you wrote a song about it, didn't you Locky

661
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 2: called double happy.

662
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 3: Because it's not double I mean, you get why that's

663
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 3: the very first thing you say when you see someone

664
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 3: a stranger with holding two carriers or but it's just

665
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 3: like it's just an odd thing.

666
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think you get it as soon as

667
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 4: you learn that you're pregnant twins, and the way people

668
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 4: look at you. The first reaction is often like yikes,

669
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 4: and you just go, oh god, okay. I had one

670
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 4: friend who was like, I've always wanted twins, and that

671
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 4: made me really excited, like to have a positive reaction,

672
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 4: but generally the reaction is people's faces drop, they're like,

673
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 4: are you okay? And then we're at the pub recently

674
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 4: with a bunch of friends and there was a group

675
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 4: of husbands sitting there and I ever heard one of

676
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 4: them say it could happen to any of us. Now,

677
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 4: could happen to any of us? And I was like,

678
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 4: it's not a tragedy, Like, it's really we wanted a baby,

679
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 4: We've got to It's going to be an adventure. It's

680
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 4: going to be a lot. But it's weird when the

681
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 4: whole world is telling you that this is going to

682
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 4: be terrible.

683
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

684
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, And you get that a little bit. When you're

685
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 4: pregnant with one. Everyone goes you won't sleep again, and

686
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 4: you have one and you go, actually, this is also amazing, that's.

687
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: Right, the amazing always that ways.

688
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, it does but it's I find people's comments, especially

689
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 4: when my husband was in and that was, you know,

690
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 4: quite a few months when he was he was not

691
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 4: in a great place, and the way that a lot

692
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 4: of men talk to him like his life was over

693
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 4: and I had to go, No one's ill, no one

694
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 4: is like this is not as far as life goes.

695
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 4: We are so lucky. This is overwhelming, but like, can

696
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 4: we stop treating this like it's the worst thing that

697
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 4: ever happened, Like it's it's really weird. And so I

698
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 4: think now, I think that's why you're pregnant for nine

699
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 4: months so you can both get your head around it

700
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 4: and then feel prepared once they come out to kind

701
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 4: of lean in or.

702
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 3: Please tell me it's the best thing ever.

703
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:50,959
Speaker 4: I will.

704
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 2: And it's great. You mentioned earlier your partner went and

705
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 2: spoke to someone. Yeah, I was struggling a little bit,

706
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 2: which is obviously if you're not getting it from your mates. Yeah, yeah,

707
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 2: that you need to go and.

708
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 4: And actually be proactive. Because the rates of post nail depressions,

709
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 4: certainly among women, but we know that that happens to

710
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,439
Speaker 4: men too, are a lot higher with twins, and they're

711
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 4: higher with twins firstly because of the enormous hormone drock

712
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 4: that women get, but also because of the shock and

713
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 4: the finances and the logistics and the there are so

714
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 4: many reasons why it's harder on parents, and I think

715
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 4: going into it. My husband actually, over our break I

716
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 4: sent him to like this holiday house for like three nights,

717
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 4: and I was like, you go have your time on

718
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 4: your own with the dog and just do what you

719
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 4: need to do, sleep, meditate, whatever, and then come back

720
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 4: and be in it. And he's just needed a bit

721
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 4: of space to process it. And he's a preparer. He

722
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 4: likes to be prepared for things. And now I think

723
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 4: he's got his head around it. And we've had to

724
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 4: move house because the other place would have been fine

725
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 4: with the second baby, as was not going to be

726
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 4: fine with three babies. How do you find a master

727
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 4: bedroom with enough room? Like all that kind of stuff.

728
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 4: You just go, how where are we going to keep

729
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 4: the double pram?

730
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, does Luna come into the bed

731
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 2: with you at nighttime?

732
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 4: And think she started coming in in the morning a bit,

733
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 4: so very exactly exactly right, There's going to be babies everywhere,

734
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 4: and I think we.

735
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 2: Just lean into it pretty incredible, isn't it were you

736
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: were you a dressed the same.

737
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 4: No, we have a few photos of like people would

738
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 4: do it as like a little gimmicky thing, but I

739
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 4: always insisted on wearing the one that I wanted. So

740
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 4: I'm always in the pink and clarees and the blue, okay,

741
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 4: or like, I'm in the one I thought fit me.

742
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 4: But I was the bigger twin and Claire's you know,

743
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 4: in the dress that's past her ankles looking ridiculous. My

744
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 4: brothers were very always got dressed up as we want

745
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 4: to be two bananas in pajamas. That was just because

746
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 4: they were so alike. My uncle's a hairdresser, and they

747
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 4: they shaved J and N into the back of their

748
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 4: heads for a while so that people knew who because

749
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 4: they'd get them mixed up. But it's still now Like

750
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 4: my sister and I work together like on some things,

751
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 4: and we turned up the other day in the same

752
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 4: outfit and we're like, oh, this is so weird.

753
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 2: It just happens.

754
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 4: It's so embarrassing, and it just it will go shopping

755
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,919
Speaker 4: and come back and we've bought the same thing. It's

756
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 4: so so bad.

757
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 2: It's yeah, well you well a boy and a girl,

758
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 2: so there will be in different outfits anyway.

759
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I wonder if, in terms of comparison and individuality,

760
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 4: if it's easier. I have no idea. With girl, it's

761
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 4: like even at the swimming carnival and the athletics carnival

762
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 4: and everything, you're in the same rate, You're literally in

763
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 4: the same race. One comes second last and and so

764
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 4: it's it's more competitive, whereas for boys and girls, I

765
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 4: wonder if if you can foster that individuality a little

766
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 4: bit easier.

767
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's got twin girls, Dolly and Gig, and she

768
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 2: gets the comparison thing all the time, and Dolly's the

769
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 2: one with they, so Dolly is the one with the

770
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 2: fat face. You get that kind of but with a

771
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 2: boy and a girl it probably will be quite a

772
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: different experience. Yeah.

773
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 4: I was always the bigger twin, like I'm taller and

774
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 4: bigger than Claire, and it's like you always have that.

775
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 4: And then even with our HSC, it was like no

776
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 4: matter how well we went or how hard we studied,

777
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 4: there was a smart twin dumb like that was the

778
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 4: way people talked about it. And you kind of can't

779
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 4: own your own achievements to the same degree. It's every

780
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 4: time you win, you also lose because the other one

781
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 4: feels it, I suppose, which is, yeah, something that follows

782
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 4: you through life forbid. And I suppose that's what your

783
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 4: girls are learning, is that there's a there is an

784
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 4: inherent competitiveness to it that you yeah, and then I

785
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 4: guess an overprotectiveness as well for each other.

786
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like you've got each other's back no matter what.

787
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly, exactly certainly that we're so defensive. And then

788
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 4: it's funny that, you know, I'll go, oh, Claire's driving

789
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 4: me mad, She's doing this, she's doing that, And then

790
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 4: someone will be like yeah, and I'm like, what, she

791
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 4: is a perfect she is my best friend, she is

792
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 4: our husband's I don't know how they manage it, but

793
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 4: they're just like, you know, my husband just said, you

794
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 4: marry twenty percent of Claire. Like Claire's just always in

795
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,839
Speaker 4: our house. She's just always He's like, there's a part

796
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,919
Speaker 4: of you that belongs to Claire, that will always belong

797
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 4: to Claire. And I've got to understand that and the

798
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 4: way that we I think we've got to be careful

799
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 4: with winging to our husbands so that when our husbands

800
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 4: hang out. They're not like you're a psycho.

801
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 2: It's like we hide that part the.

802
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 4: Private fights that we have late at night that's just

803
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 4: between us.

804
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 2: Is does Claire live close by?

805
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:13,320
Speaker 4: She lives twenty minute walk, maybe a five minute to drive,

806
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 4: so we live very, very close.

807
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 2: I assume she'll be a big support through.

808
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,919
Speaker 4: Yeah. I'm fighting to get her in the delivery room

809
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 4: because I was there when her baby was delivered and

810
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 4: it was just the best thing ever to watch. And

811
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 4: I think I've nearly got in there because Luna was

812
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,919
Speaker 4: just us. But I'm like, I'd love Claire to see

813
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 4: twins like that would be incredible for us to see that.

814
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 4: And I think that my husband was also not not concerned,

815
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 4: but like when we thought they'd be identical, he was like,

816
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 4: will Jesse have a relationship or understanding with them that

817
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 4: I can never have? And then when we found out

818
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 4: they were fraternal and it was a boy and a girl,

819
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 4: I think he felt relief that he went, oh, this

820
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,919
Speaker 4: is new for both of you. So I think that

821
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 4: that's helped him kind of process it.

822
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 2: Yeah makes sense.

823
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, well please please do look after yourself after the

824
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 3: don't and I will ever forever talk about the maternal

825
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 3: health notices we had up it or Sydney Donald literally

826
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 3: walked up that one of the appointment days and nearly

827
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 3: fainted on her way there. She was such a mess.

828
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 3: But she did that score testing thing and she failed miserably.

829
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 3: But the beautiful lady's advice was just that you've got

830
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 3: to put yourselves at the top of the pyramid and

831
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 3: everything else comes after, including the kids, just got it

832
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 3: for you for that those next few moments after the birth.

833
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 3: So I hope it beautifully And do.

834
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 4: You have any other parting words?

835
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 3: That's the best thing ever.

836
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, that makes me very happy for Lockie.

837
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 2: Bring tissues, bring tissues.

838
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 3: I remember Dana too looking back at photos now, which

839
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 3: we do all the time, but she was paranoid. She

840
00:44:58,239 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 3: breastfed as long as she could and she did the

841
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 3: incredible job, but she was always worried that they were underweight. Yes,

842
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 3: you just panicked all the time, and you look back

843
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 3: at photos and they are the biggest you have. They

844
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 3: are the so they I think there was about nine

845
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 3: months that they got and then started bottle feeding, but

846
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:17,280
Speaker 3: they were huge.

847
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 2: Oh, they were huge.

848
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 4: So anyone who breastfeeds twins. For my mum is always

849
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 4: like I was breastfed and my sister wasn't. And I'm

850
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 4: always like, yeah, Clay, you can tell you. And so

851
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 4: she makes this this big fuss about how she breastfited me.

852
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 4: And I said to her recently, how long was I breastfed?

853
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 4: And she was like, oh, five weeks, that's not that long.

854
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 4: The fuss you made, it's very I think it's like that.

855
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 4: That's the one thing that people have said is that,

856
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 4: you know, you get a lot of advice when you

857
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 4: have one with twins. A lot of people go, do

858
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 4: what you need to do, Like I'm not going to

859
00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 4: judge whether it's sleep feeding whatever, like lower the bar,

860
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 4: get through.

861
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, certainly, get through the first few months, and.

862
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 4: Then yeah, yeah, exactly right. But I am it's balanced

863
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 4: with excitement and also I won't be pregnant anymore and

864
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 4: I can eat hot chips and so straight up in

865
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 4: like as soon as I'm like, I'll be the only

866
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 4: one during a C section to be like, can get

867
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 4: the McDonald's. Please be so excited.

868
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 3: We thank you for coming in, Thank you, good.

869
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 4: Luck, thank you, and you two you are just in

870
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 4: my house. You're in my house. Last night.

871
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: We're going to be there for a lot longer.

872
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 4: I think you will.

873
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:43,919
Speaker 2: We won't be in the birth week.

874
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 4: We just moved out actually, and Luna had this experience.

875
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 4: We've got a little like Lucky Simon, you know, the

876
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 4: little figurine. Yeah, we've got lots of them. She dropped

877
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 4: one on the floor once and the dog ate Locky

878
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 4: and she went she just got upset. So we had

879
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 4: to buy a new Locky. And now Lockie is hidden

880
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 4: in a pot so that the dog can't get to it.

881
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 4: So we moved house and the other day she went

882
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 4: up to the pot checked, like, he's still in there,

883
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 4: and that's where he lives.

884
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 2: All luck he's in a pot.

885
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 3: Boys, the boys, the girls and hiding things. Boys hide things.

886
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: No, we create hideouts. And I said to Ash yesterday,

887
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 2: are we going to go back to the headquarters And

888
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 2: he goes, that's the wrong game. It's a hideout. Yeah,

889
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 2: where we're.

890
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:33,280
Speaker 3: Putting things in jars.

891
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 2: It's unbelieve take all the top of it.

892
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 3: There's none left exactly, every toy under the sun.

893
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 2: And well, if you you've got us on speed done

894
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 2: now if you need a little like another little Locky,

895
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 2: so anything we'll thought you out. Thank you, Thank Jesse.

896
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 2: It's a great check.

897
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.

898
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 2: How lovely was Jesse? It's so nice, what a great chat.

899
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 2: It was lovely And what are the chances, I mean

900
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,919
Speaker 2: if it's not part of your genetic makeup. I know

901
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 2: that there's all that twins in their family. That's unbelievable.

902
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 2: I didn't get to ask about her her partner side,

903
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 2: where there's Eddie twins on his side, but that's all

904
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 2: further back in their family.

905
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 3: Yes, but unbelievable, So unbelievable, and how kind of special. Yeah,

906
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 3: amazing family and for a mum. And yeah, she just yeah,

907
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,359
Speaker 3: she was such a beautiful speaker. Thank you, Jesse.

908
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Thanks. I'm reminded of what the female body goes

909
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 2: through with one child, which you know, Laura and I

910
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 2: experience obviously, and you with twins. But gestational diabetes, all

911
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 2: that preclamsy, all those things that can happen, which your

912
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: body does in order to facilitate you know, it's childbirth,

913
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 2: like it's fascinating it is, but you forget about it

914
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 2: all so quickly, yes, and then you're reminded again.

915
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 3: So how long it takes to the body to recover too, yeah,

916
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 3: actually recover but yeah, amazing bounce back.

917
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

918
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 3: Well, good luck to Jesse and her partner, and thank

919
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 3: you for listening to wiggle Talk today. If you want

920
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 3: more Jesse, you can find her on Mama Mia out

921
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 3: Loud Loud and her book Heartsick and Something Bad Is

922
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 3: Going to Happen. They are wherever you buy your good books.

923
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 2: Look. If you're enjoying will Talk, you know you can

924
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 2: rate review us. It's quite a simple thing to do.

925
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 2: I still have no idea how to do it, but

926
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 2: it's quite simple. And what it does it helps other

927
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,399
Speaker 2: parents find us on wiggle talk. It does.

928
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to wiggle Talk. It is a

929
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:34,760
Speaker 3: podcast for parents.

930
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 2: See you next time. Goodbye, bye, bye bye.