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Speaker 1: From the Daily Odds. I'm Billy fit Simon's and this

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Speaker 1: is no silly Questions. As always, We're doing another Civics

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Speaker 1: explainer today and I'm joined by TV extraordinaire Tom Crowley.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Billy, you can't see me today, but it's good

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Speaker 2: to be here. I note that last week I was

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Speaker 2: sounding a little bit husky. This week you're a little

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Speaker 2: worse for aware, So I'm going to enjoy the tables.

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Speaker 2: Having turned, I feel like I'll be a little bit

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Speaker 2: chebbier than you today.

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Speaker 3: Maybe i am.

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Speaker 1: I've unfortunately got COVID for the second time this year.

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Speaker 1: Very unlucky. But it's going to get me down if

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Speaker 1: we talk about it for too long. So today's topic

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Speaker 1: is probably one of the ones that we get the

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Speaker 1: most questions about, and that's the Houses of Parliament and

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Speaker 1: more specifically what the difference is between the Senate and

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Speaker 1: the House of Representatives. So Tom, we've touched on this

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Speaker 1: a little bit before, but can you explain what's different

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Speaker 1: about what you're exploring today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So we've talked about the houses in the context

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Speaker 2: of the election, right and we've explained who we're voting for.

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Speaker 2: But of course once we vote for them. They've got

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Speaker 2: to do something. And to days kind of about that.

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Speaker 2: What do they do these people that we elect, and

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Speaker 2: how does the business of government get done?

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Speaker 1: All right, let's get into the sixty second answer. Your

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Speaker 1: time starts now.

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Speaker 2: So we've got our two houses, the House of Representatives

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Speaker 2: and the Senate.

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Speaker 3: First, the House of Reps.

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Speaker 2: As we've said before, it's made up of one hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty one local representatives. It's where government is formed.

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Speaker 2: Whoever controls the majority of those one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: one and it tends to be one of the major parties. Now,

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Speaker 2: the business of parliament billy is pretty simple. It makes laws.

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Speaker 2: They do a bunch of other theatrical stuff. They ask

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Speaker 2: each other questions, but the main thing is they make laws,

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Speaker 2: and the House of Reps is where that starts. So

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Speaker 2: bills are introduced, and bills are just proposals for new

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Speaker 2: laws or for new spending that have to get voted on,

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Speaker 2: and they've got to get a majority first in the

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Speaker 2: House of Representatives. Now, technically anyone can introduce a bill,

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Speaker 2: but as the government who controls the majority. Most often

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Speaker 2: it is the government that does bills to achieve its

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Speaker 2: own agenda. But also just to pass all the ordinary,

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Speaker 2: uncontroversial things that government does past the House of Representatives,

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Speaker 2: and you go to the Senate, which we know is

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Speaker 2: the state's house people representing states and territories. It tends

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Speaker 2: to have a lot more minor parties and a much

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Speaker 2: more colorful composition. The government doesn't usually control the Senate,

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Speaker 2: so it's got a little bit of a difficult time

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Speaker 2: because the Senate also has to vote on any bill

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Speaker 2: for it to become the law. If the Senate says no,

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Speaker 2: back to the drawing board, the bill has to be

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Speaker 2: changed or amended, and it doesn't become law until both

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Speaker 2: houses agree. So even though our main focus in this election,

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Speaker 2: Billy might be on the House of Reps and who's

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Speaker 2: going to be the government, who's going to be the

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Speaker 2: prime minister, it takes two to tango. The Senate also

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Speaker 2: has a very important role to play. I think that'll

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Speaker 2: do for my first answer.

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Speaker 1: How let go Well, in the words of Abby Chatfield,

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Speaker 1: I would say that that was a lot.

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Speaker 3: Hello Abby, if you're listening, But let's.

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Speaker 1: Start with the House of Representatives. Why is that the

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Speaker 1: main one and why is that the place where government

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Speaker 1: is formed?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I think this question of why is a really good

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Speaker 2: place to start. It's sort of a question of convenience, basically,

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Speaker 2: And so the House of Reps is where all the

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Speaker 2: business of government starts. So I guess it's kind of

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Speaker 2: natural that whoever can reliably control it is the one

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Speaker 2: that's best placed to be the government. And I'll come

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Speaker 2: back to something that I mentioned briefly in that sixty

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Speaker 2: second answer, which is that, you know, we often talk

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Speaker 2: about the kind of controversial things and disagreements in politics,

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Speaker 2: but a lot of what government does and has to

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Speaker 2: do is uncontroversial. So, for example, when a new financial

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Speaker 2: year comes along, Parliament has to approve that we're still

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Speaker 2: actually going to even have the police, or have an army,

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Speaker 2: or have any of the things the government does. The

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Speaker 2: Parliament's got to approve the money for that. Now it's

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Speaker 2: generally pretty controversial, but someone's got to draft it, someone's

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Speaker 2: got to introduce it, and someone's got to sort of

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Speaker 2: decide the amounts and pass the money. And so again,

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Speaker 2: you know, the party that can kind of control a

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Speaker 2: majority in the House of Representatives is the best place

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Speaker 2: to kind of manage that business of government. And of course,

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Speaker 2: sometimes as we've discussed on the show before. The major

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Speaker 2: party may not have full control themselves. They might be

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Speaker 2: reliant on what we call the cross bench, on a

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Speaker 2: couple of sort of minor parties or independents to help

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Speaker 2: them get over the line. And that's really all about,

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Speaker 2: you know, what those minor parties or independents agree to

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Speaker 2: do is to just sort of give them that confidence

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Speaker 2: to do the ordinary business of government, and they may

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Speaker 2: not support them on the more controversial things the government

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Speaker 2: wants to do, but yeah, it's all about kind of

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Speaker 2: who can kind of keep the wheels of government turning.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of why we put this focus on the

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Speaker 2: House of Reps. And that's why it's sort of talked

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Speaker 2: about as the seat of government.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and then there's this Senate, which is also sometimes

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Speaker 1: called the upper House. What I want to know is

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Speaker 1: why do we even have two separate houses and why

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Speaker 1: does a second house exist in the first place, if,

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Speaker 1: like you said, it just makes things difficult for the government.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, in a sense, making things difficult for the

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Speaker 2: government is kind of the point of the Senate, and

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Speaker 2: it's kind of why we have one. And so if

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Speaker 2: you go right back to nineteen oh one, when the

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Speaker 2: Parliament was set up, it was coming from a context

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Speaker 2: where the states were their own, you know, kind of

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Speaker 2: independent things, and they were agreeing to form this national government.

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Speaker 2: But there was a little bit of kind of you know,

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Speaker 2: skepticism about how much power the national government would have,

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Speaker 2: and so they set up this sort of of house

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Speaker 2: where the states would be represented, so that the states

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Speaker 2: would kind of be able to sort of keep a

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Speaker 2: check on the national government, keep a check on these

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Speaker 2: local representatives. That's not really how it works now, it's

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Speaker 2: more of our political parties. But what's happened instead is

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Speaker 2: we get all these sort of colorful crossbenches and minor parties,

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Speaker 2: and there are a bunch of different kind of groups

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Speaker 2: that the government will have to negotiate with to pass

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Speaker 2: anything that it wants to into law. And that's kind

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Speaker 2: of a useful check, I guess, on the government. And

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Speaker 2: of course, the public can sometimes give the government a

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Speaker 2: majority in the Senate. If people really really really love

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Speaker 2: the government and they vote for them in both houses

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Speaker 2: enough that the government ends up with a majority in

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Speaker 2: the Senate, then the government can just sort of do

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Speaker 2: whatever it likes. But when there is this sort of

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Speaker 2: block in the Senate, and when you've got to work

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Speaker 2: with others, I guess it ends up being slightly more

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Speaker 2: consensus based, and there's more of an opportunity for the

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Speaker 2: Senate to block some of the big things that the

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Speaker 2: government wants to do, or to try and amend it

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Speaker 2: and to come to kind of a different alternative. And

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Speaker 2: so again, sort of a lot of the ordinary, uncontrover

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Speaker 2: rcial business of government will go through the Senate without

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Speaker 2: anyone opposing it. But when it comes to these sort

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Speaker 2: of thorny and controversial issues, the Senate is kind of

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Speaker 2: designed in a way to act as it's sometimes talked

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Speaker 2: about as the House of Review, and that kind of

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Speaker 2: creative tension is sometimes viewed as a healthy thing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And what happens if the two houses absolutely can't agree,

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Speaker 1: nothing will get done.

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Speaker 2: Right, So suppose the House of Reps passes something and

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Speaker 2: the Senate says no, goes back to the House of

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Speaker 2: Representatives and the Senate says no.

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Speaker 3: Again. The government could just dump it if it wanted to.

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Speaker 2: But if it's something sort of really crucial, if there's

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Speaker 2: this really crucial standoff between the two houses, then what

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Speaker 2: happens is Parliament gets dissolved, which is a dramatic term

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Speaker 2: for it basically means that everybody we just go to

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Speaker 2: an election again, and so it's what's called a trigger

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Speaker 2: for a double dissolution, double being the two houses of Parliament,

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Speaker 2: dissolution being dissolved. Basically, if there's disagreement on a particular

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Speaker 2: bill twice, the Prime Minister can say this isn't working,

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Speaker 2: this is unworkable. The House of Reps can't work with

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Speaker 2: the Senate. We need to go to a full election

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Speaker 2: and the whole House of Reps gets elected again, but

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Speaker 2: not just the House of Reps but also the whole Senate.

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Speaker 2: So normally we only elect half the Senate as at

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Speaker 2: a time, but in a double dissolution, the whole thing

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Speaker 2: gets re elected all at once, and so that does

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Speaker 2: happen sometimes that there are these sorts of disagreements between

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Speaker 2: the houses and the Prime Minister goes to the Governor

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Speaker 2: General and says, no, we need to start from scratch.

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Speaker 2: We need to ask the Australian public to give us

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Speaker 2: a whole new parliament because this isn't working. So that's

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Speaker 2: kind of the dramatic endpoint when there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: tension between the House of Reps and the Senate doesn't

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Speaker 2: happen that often, but it did happen only a few

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Speaker 2: years ago, so it's not inconceivable.

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Speaker 1: And just lastly, while we're on the topic of political jargon,

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Speaker 1: there is one more thing I want to ask about,

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Speaker 1: and that's the cabinet. It's a word you hear a

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Speaker 1: lot when you're talking about the government. Can you explain

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Speaker 1: what it is and how it fits into these two houses?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so which house has the cabinet in it? In

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Speaker 2: other words, the answer is kind of both. So I

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Speaker 2: guess kind of what's missing in all of this is

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Speaker 2: sort of, you know, what actually constitutes the government and

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Speaker 2: how does the government actually come up with the ideas

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Speaker 2: for the bills and the laws that it wants to

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Speaker 2: pass and all the stuff that it wants to put

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Speaker 2: through parliament. That's where the cabinet comes in. And the

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Speaker 2: cabinet is made up of ministers led by the Prime Minister.

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Speaker 2: But there'll be a Minister for Health, and there's a

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Speaker 2: minister for Education and ministers for all sorts of different things,

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Speaker 2: and the Prime Minister gets to decide generally who is

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Speaker 2: in the cabinet. And it's sort of an informal arrangement,

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Speaker 2: so it is mentioned in the Constitution, but it's not

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Speaker 2: specified that it has to be kind of other government MPs.

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Speaker 2: Technically even the Prime Minister could come from from the Senate.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't normally happen, but the Prime Minister is allowed

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Speaker 2: to call basically anyone they wanted. They could call someone

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Speaker 2: from the opposition, they could call someone who's not even

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Speaker 2: a politician if they wanted. But what generally happens is

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Speaker 2: they pick a bunch of other members of Parliament, either

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Speaker 2: from the House of Reps or the Senate, to sort

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Speaker 2: of you know, government MPs to form their cabinet, and

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Speaker 2: they sign out what's called the portfolios, which are the

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Speaker 2: subject areas, and each minister has responsibility for kind of

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Speaker 2: working with the relevant parts of the public service, working

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Speaker 2: with their advisors to actually do the detailed work of

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Speaker 2: developing the policies, figuring out what they're going to be,

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Speaker 2: getting down to specifics, and making sure I guess that

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Speaker 2: bills are ready to go before the Parliament. They're doing

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Speaker 2: all the other things that ministers might do. So some

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Speaker 2: ministers have discretion over particular areas. For example, the Immigration

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Speaker 2: Minister gets to make kind of individual decisions about people's

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Speaker 2: visas that don't need parliament. So there are lots of

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Speaker 2: different responsibilities that different ministers have, but broadly speaking, there

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Speaker 2: they're drawn from government MPs and they do the kind

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Speaker 2: of business of getting all the stuff ready before it

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Speaker 2: comes to parliament. So that's kind of where the cabinet

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Speaker 2: fits in.

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Speaker 1: All right, I think that's all we have time for

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Speaker 1: political one oh one. Once again, Tom, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us TV extraordinaire. We brush past up before,

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Speaker 1: but you were on ABC's The Drum and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that we'll see you on there more often.

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Speaker 3: I thought I managed to escape that one. Billy, thank you.

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Speaker 2: It's very kind of congratulations on getting through this episode.

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Speaker 2: Sick though you are. I hope you can get some rest.

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Speaker 2: Shall I do the finish? Shall I tell people they

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Speaker 2: can subscribe to our podcast. They can give us a

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Speaker 2: five star rating. It really helps us as independent media producers.

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Speaker 2: You'll be back on Tuesday. I'll be back next Thursday.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much for listening. Did I miss anything?

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Speaker 3: Is that all?

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Speaker 1: That was perfect?

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much, amazing.

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Speaker 2: I'll have you out of a job soon. Billy, thanks

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Speaker 2: for listening to No silly questions.

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Speaker 1: Thanks very much,