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Speaker 1: Already and this is the daily This is the Daily

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Speaker 1: ohs oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday,

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Speaker 2: the thirteenth of May. I'm sam, i'm zara. Algorithms, child abuse,

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Speaker 2: domestic violence, scams, extremist material, miss and disinformation, and the

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Speaker 2: availability of good journalism on social media. These are all

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Speaker 2: areas identified by the Government for investigation as part of

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Speaker 2: a new parliamentary committee investigating the influence and impacts of

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Speaker 2: social media on Australian society. In today's podcast, we're going

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Speaker 2: to look at what the committee has been asked to achieve,

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Speaker 2: where this has all come from, and why it matters

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Speaker 2: to you. But first, here's what's making news. Over the weekend.

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Speaker 2: The United Nations General Assembly overwhelmingly passed a resolution calling

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Speaker 2: for full Palestinian membership in the UN. The vote passed

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Speaker 2: one hundred and forty three to nine, with Australia voting

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Speaker 2: in favour. The General Assembly's resolution does not mean Palestinian

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Speaker 2: full member status has been granted. Rather, it is now

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Speaker 2: up to the Security Council to approve it. Palestine's UN

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Speaker 2: representatives do have some new rights within the international body,

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Speaker 2: such as proposing agenda items and serving on various UN committees.

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Speaker 3: A former Fijian Prime minister has been sentenced to a

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Speaker 3: year in jail for corruption. Frank Byni Morama was leader

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Speaker 3: of Fiji for fifteen years until twenty twenty two. Fiji's

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Speaker 3: High Court found the former PM guilty of interfering with

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Speaker 3: a police investigation into claims of fraud at a Fijian university.

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Speaker 3: The country's former police commissioner was also sentenced to two

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Speaker 3: years imprisonment after being charged in relation to the same investigation.

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Speaker 2: Some Victorians, Tasmanians and South Australians were treated to two

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Speaker 2: Knights of CIA. The Aurora australis otherwise known as the

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Speaker 2: Southern Lights in the night sky. According to the Australian

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Speaker 2: Space Weather Alert System, the lights occurred when large clouds

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Speaker 2: of plasma and magnetic field erupt in the Sun's outer

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Speaker 2: atmosphere that causes a geomagnetic storm when they hit the

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Speaker 2: Earth's atmosphere. The rest of Australia saw the lights through

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Speaker 2: some remarkable photography, especially on our social media feeds.

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Speaker 3: And today's good news is a mind blowing one. Researchers

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Speaker 3: at Harvard University and Google have developed the largest ever

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Speaker 3: three D reconstruction of part of the human brain. The

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Speaker 3: reconstruction contains never before seen details of brain structure, showing

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Speaker 3: every single cell and a web of neural pathways in

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Speaker 3: one brain fragment. Harvard researcher Jeff Lichtman said the aim

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Speaker 3: of the brain map was to create a high resolution

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Speaker 3: view of this most mysterious piece of biology that each

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Speaker 3: one of us carries around on our shoulders. Okay, so, Sam,

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Speaker 3: I think that social media is in the headlines every

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Speaker 3: single day of the year, three hundred and sixty five days.

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Speaker 2: It feels like a news pillar.

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Speaker 3: It is, and rightly so. It dictates so much of

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Speaker 3: our life, and so much of our lives are lived

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Speaker 3: out online. So I completely understand that. Why do you

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Speaker 3: think this year in particular, there has been this renewed

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Speaker 3: focus on, I guess, the responsibility of platforms and what

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Speaker 3: those responsibilities look like to audiences.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the first thing to say before diving

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Speaker 2: into the big events of twenty twenty four is that

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Speaker 2: it's not just about what's happened in the last couple

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Speaker 2: of months. The law and politics traditionally takes a little

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Speaker 2: bit of time to catch up to the big issues

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Speaker 2: facing our society. We know that policy change takes time,

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Speaker 2: and that could be months or years. And I guess

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Speaker 2: we've known about these risks that social media can have

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Speaker 2: on our lives for many years now. I mean, you

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Speaker 2: and I have talked on this podcast a number of

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Speaker 2: times over the last couple of years of some big

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Speaker 2: moments sin some big issues. But twenty twenty four has

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Speaker 2: undoubtedly been a big year in social media. So in January,

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Speaker 2: well in January and February this year, the CEOs of Meta, TikTok,

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Speaker 2: and X, which is formerly called Twitter, testified before the

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Speaker 2: U How.

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Speaker 3: Long do we have to keep saying formally Twitter?

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Speaker 2: I mean you still type in twitter dot com. So

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Speaker 2: it's this weird Yeah, it's this weird user experience. But

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Speaker 2: we'll call it X for this podcast. So those three

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Speaker 2: CEOs testified before the US Senate Judiciary Committee on the

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Speaker 2: dangers facing children on social media, and that included this

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Speaker 2: spectacular moment where Mark Zuckerberg, the founder of Meta, actually

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Speaker 2: physically turned arounds to apologize to the families of children

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Speaker 2: who had died by suicide because of social media. We've

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Speaker 2: also had questions raised about TikTok's ownership and connections to

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Speaker 2: the Chinese government, and again in the US Capitol, Hill

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Speaker 2: threatened to ban the app if it was not transferred

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Speaker 2: to American ownership. TikTok is now suing the US government

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Speaker 2: over that law. And then here in Australia we've had

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Speaker 2: this very public battle play out between Meta and legacy

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Speaker 2: news companies. After Meta withdrew some financial payments it was

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Speaker 2: making annually to large media companies, it also announced to

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Speaker 2: the global market that it would deprioritize the recommendation of

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Speaker 2: political content to keep up what it says is changing

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Speaker 2: consumer behavior on their apps.

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Speaker 3: Okay, that was a whole lot of jargon, but essentially

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Speaker 3: all you were saying there was that Meta's basically said

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Speaker 3: it's going to move away from news in no uncertain

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Speaker 3: terms and that it's not being recommended to users on matter.

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Speaker 3: That's all that that's trying to say. Definitely, and that's

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Speaker 3: something we've spoken about a lot, and I think that

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Speaker 3: I will probably collapse if I have to talk about

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Speaker 3: it again on this podcast, or we will move forward quickly.

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Speaker 2: But I haven't even mentioned the Elon Musk fight with

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Speaker 2: the Australian. The safety Coustion that's about the wakely stabbing

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Speaker 2: videos of that's having been taken down on X. So

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Speaker 2: it's been a really busy year for social media in

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Speaker 2: a policy in government context especially.

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Speaker 3: And many of these events aren't necessarily linked. So we're

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Speaker 3: kind of saying, you know, governments try and regulate social

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Speaker 3: media ownership in one space, but then regulate what's on

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Speaker 3: those platforms in another, then regulate how they can pay

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Speaker 3: publishers in another. But I guess the common thread that

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Speaker 3: is bringing all of these things together is that governments

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Speaker 3: around the world want social media companies to take more responsibility,

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Speaker 3: rightly or wrongly, for the impacts of their platforms and

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Speaker 3: for the audiences that are on those platforms.

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Speaker 2: That's right, and that brings us to why we're talking

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Speaker 2: about it today because on Friday, the Minister for Communications

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Speaker 2: Michelle Roland, and the Prime Ministant and the Abenezi announced

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Speaker 2: this Joint Parliamentary Committee into the Impacts of social Media

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Speaker 2: on Australia.

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Speaker 3: And so that's an inquiry that's being led by a

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Speaker 3: committee in Parliament which is basically just a group that's

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Speaker 3: made up of different parliamentarians from across the political divide.

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Speaker 3: What's that committee actually looking into.

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Speaker 2: Well, here's how Anthony Abereneze framed the mission of that

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Speaker 2: committee on Friday.

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Speaker 1: With social media comes the need for social life license

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Speaker 1: and a social responsibility, whether it be the issue of

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Speaker 1: domestic violence, oh, whether it be radicalization of our young people.

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Speaker 1: Something that keeps popping up over and over again is

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Speaker 1: the role of social media which can be very positive

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Speaker 1: but can also have a negative influence. Which is there,

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Speaker 1: how do we make sure that social media's benefits continue

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Speaker 1: whilst the potential for harmful impacts are minimized.

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Speaker 3: So there's a lot of different topics there. What are

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Speaker 3: they actually hoping to achieve?

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Speaker 2: Ultimately, the committee's lens through which it's approaching its inquiries

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Speaker 2: is this key idea of as you said before, responsibility

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Speaker 2: and accountability. The key premise there is if a platform

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Speaker 2: has a significant reach and control over what Australians consume online,

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Speaker 2: as these major social media players do, it should be

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Speaker 2: subject to appropriate scrutiny. And a big part of that

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Speaker 2: is going to be looking at algorithms. I mean, we

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Speaker 2: talk about this word algorithm like it's part of influencer culture,

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Speaker 2: part of the way we get our news. What does

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Speaker 2: it actually mean, how does it work and what responsibilities

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Speaker 2: do algorithms have in terms of scams or illegal content?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think this is a novel concept, but

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Speaker 3: I think it's just such an interesting dynamic to see

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Speaker 3: play out because these social media companies are private companies

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Speaker 3: and can not entirely be compelled to do that much.

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Speaker 3: That's what we've seen here with Meta, is that if

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Speaker 3: they are pushed to do something, they will just withdraw

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Speaker 3: from the market altogether. How does the government envision this

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Speaker 3: committee will actually achieve those outcomes? What do they think

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Speaker 3: will happen? I mean, it's by no means a first

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Speaker 3: investigation into how social media is working, Like, how is

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Speaker 3: this any different?

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Speaker 2: Well, there was some language in Michelle Rowland's press release

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Speaker 2: on Friday that was really around systems. So they're asking

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Speaker 2: the committee to recommend ways that we can bake into

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Speaker 2: the way our government runs methods to keep these companies accountable.

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Speaker 2: So it's not necessarily that the committee's only looking at

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Speaker 2: what do we need to do right now to make

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Speaker 2: sure that they're accountable in twenty twenty four, But how

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Speaker 2: can we deal with this going forward? I mean, social

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Speaker 2: media is not going anywhere, and I think The government

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Speaker 2: really knows that, so they're looking for ways systems processes

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Speaker 2: to keep them accountable moving forward years and decades.

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Speaker 3: I think it's interesting in almost every scenario Australia is

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Speaker 3: behind many other nations in the world in how we

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Speaker 3: approach certain issues, you know, much smaller population size, whatever else.

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Speaker 3: When it comes to relationships with big tech though, you

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Speaker 3: know the News Media Bargaining Code which is what regulates

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Speaker 3: the relationship between big tech and media. That was a

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Speaker 3: world first at the time, and that was seen as

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Speaker 3: like breaking new ground. Is the government seeing this as

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Speaker 3: some sort of revolutionary new idea.

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Speaker 2: It's an interesting one. I mean, the government really thinks

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Speaker 2: it is on the front of the charge towards social

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Speaker 2: media regulation. Michelle Rowland said on Friday to the ABC

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Speaker 2: the world is looking at Australia right now, so they

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Speaker 2: clearly do feel a responsibility to lead reform in this space,

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Speaker 2: not just wait for other governments to lead the way.

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Speaker 2: But the undertone to this discussion is the fact that

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Speaker 2: these are global companies and these are global issues, and

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Speaker 2: we've seen.

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Speaker 3: My government can't regulate if another.

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Speaker 2: One exactly, and so whether Australia goes first and tries

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Speaker 2: to regulate what's happening in Australia. That question is always

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Speaker 2: going to hang over this discussion.

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Speaker 3: And what has the opposition said here, Because again, sorry

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Speaker 3: to keep harping on about the Media Bargaining Code, but

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Speaker 3: that was the coalition's policy. So they have made attempts

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Speaker 3: to regulate big tech in the past. What do they

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Speaker 3: think about this newest inquiry.

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Speaker 2: So we heard from the Shadow Communications Minister David Coleman

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Speaker 2: on Friday. He accused the government of being quote addicted

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Speaker 2: to inquiring. Instead he was calling for the implementation of

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Speaker 2: age verification trials for social media platforms, so essentially to

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Speaker 2: ensure that kids under thirteen aren't on social media. We

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Speaker 2: talked about that in the context of porn passports. I'll

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Speaker 2: put a link to that episode in today's show notes.

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Speaker 2: Coleman said that excluding social media platforms such as Instagram

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Speaker 2: and TikTok from an age verification trial was outrageous.

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Speaker 3: So the opposition is really narrowing in there on one

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Speaker 3: of the ways that you can combat some of the

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Speaker 3: issues that we're seeing on social media.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, to keep children safe, children shouldn't be on there

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Speaker 2: is basically that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, But the Government's taking a broader view of the

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Speaker 3: issue and seeing what else can be done. This is

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Speaker 3: a pressing issue. We've seen that in the dealings of

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Speaker 3: the e Safety Commissioner, with Elon Musk and with you know,

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Speaker 3: the immensely distressing videos we've seen on social media, with

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Speaker 3: the stories that we see in the news. What happens

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Speaker 3: from here. Committees historically and traditionally take a very long

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Speaker 3: time to do their jobs, So how long are we

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Speaker 3: expected to wait for any sort of recommendations this committee?

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Speaker 2: They do take a long time, and there's an air

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Speaker 2: around this committee that it's going to try and do

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Speaker 2: its work relatively quickly when we talk in committee speak,

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Speaker 2: So we're expecting a report from the committee by the

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Speaker 2: end of twenty twenty four. It's going to be this

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Speaker 2: week that the terms of reference, which are kind of

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Speaker 2: the specifics to the committee, oh.

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Speaker 3: The outline, it's the architecture of what they're looking at.

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Speaker 2: So that's going to be presented to Parliament in the

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Speaker 2: next couple of days and that will really set the

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Speaker 2: wheels in motion. From there, we'll have hearings, then they'll

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Speaker 2: rather report, then we'll get the report.

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Speaker 3: Well, if anyone who is sitting on that committee is

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Speaker 3: listening to this podcast, we would be more than happy

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Speaker 3: to rock up at a hearing and let you know

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Speaker 3: about what we think about regulating social media and news.

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Speaker 3: Until that time, though, thanks for joining us on the

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Speaker 3: Daily Ods today. If you enjoyed today's episode, you can

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Speaker 3: always let us know by either clicking five stars on

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Speaker 3: Apple or Spotify, or leaving a review on either of

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Speaker 3: those platforms. We so appreciate your support and we'll be

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Speaker 3: back again tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 2: Bungelung Calkatin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 2: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest

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Speaker 2: Rate island and nations.

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Speaker 3: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

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Speaker 3: both past and present,