1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily OS. 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 2: This is the Daily ohs oh, now it makes sense. 3 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily ODS. It's Thursday, 4 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 2: the thirteenth of June. 5 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: I'm Emma, I'm sam. 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 2: Global levels of peace deteriorated at historic rates over the 7 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 2: past year, according to new data from the Institute for 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 2: Economics and Peace. The independent think tank compared levels of 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 2: peacefulness across one hundred and sixty three countries for its 10 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 2: annual Global Peace Index, and it found global conflicts have 11 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 2: reached their highest rate since World War Two. 12 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: But how do you actually define peace and how is 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: it measured? Well? To understand more about the latest Global 14 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 1: Peace Index, you're going to hear from Michael Collins. He's 15 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: the executive director Americas of the Institute for Economics and Peace. 16 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: He's going to join Emma in today's But first, m 17 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: what is making headlines. 18 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: Former NROL player Jared Haynes has won an appeal to 19 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 2: have his sexual assault conviction quashed. It comes more than 20 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: a year after the former Paramatta Eels star was found 21 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 2: guilty of sexually assaulting a woman in twenty eighteen and 22 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 2: sentenced to a maximum of four years and nine months 23 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 2: in prison. The judge in the appeal court ordered a 24 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: new trial. If this happens, it'll be the fourth time 25 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 2: this case is tried. Haynes continues to deny the allegations 26 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 2: against him. 27 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,839 Speaker 1: One in seven adults have been the victim of sextortion, 28 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: which is a form of sexual abuse that involves threats 29 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: to share intimate images or videos of a person without 30 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: their consent. R MIT University research has surveyed sixteen thousand 31 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: people around the world. The study found men were more 32 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: likely to report sextortion from a colleague or caerra than women. 33 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: Researchers also found sextortion was common in intimate partner abuse 34 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: as a means to coerce victims. 35 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 2: Millions of people in America could have their medical debts 36 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 2: wiped from their credit reports under a proposal by US 37 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: President Joe Biden and Vice President Karmala Harris. According to 38 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: the White House, a raising health debts would impact over 39 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 2: fifteen million Americans, improving their credit scores to allow them 40 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 2: a better chance at being approved for bank loans, including mortgages. 41 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: And today's good news, one of the world's biggest Tyrannosaurus 42 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: rex fossils is set to be displayed at the Melbourne Museum. 43 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: The sixty six million year old fossil, aptly named Victoria, 44 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: was discovered in twenty thirteen in the US state of 45 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: South Dakota. At twelve meters long, it's one of the 46 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: most complete t rex fossils in the world and will 47 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: be the first real t rex fossil ever exhibited in 48 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: the state of Victoria. There's also a new discovery from 49 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: the dinosaur world. Actually, they found this dinosaur that started 50 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: saying as many words as possible, Oh, no, Ethosaurus. 51 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 3: Ah Sam. 52 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 2: We were on a roll there and you had to 53 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: go and take it to that place. Global conflicts, increased 54 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 2: military spending, and broader economic pressures are some of the 55 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 2: reasons behind a decline in overall levels of peacefulness across 56 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 2: the world. That's according to the Global Peace Index. Now 57 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: since two thousand and eight, this index has been using 58 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 2: a range of indicators to analyze the country's involvement in 59 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 2: conflict to quantify levels of peace. The twenty twenty four 60 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 2: Index was published this week and to talk us through 61 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 2: the results, trends, impacts, and bigger picture learnings from these findings, 62 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 2: we're joined by Michael Collins. Michael is the executive director 63 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: Americas of the Institute for Economics and Peace, the think 64 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: tank behind the index. Michael, Welcome to the pod. 65 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 4: Thank you very much for having Meeama. 66 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 2: We're talking today about the Global Peace Index. First of all, 67 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 2: I wanted to understand what is the index. 68 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 5: So the Global Peace Index is essentially a method or 69 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 5: a tool to be able to measure changes in peacefulness globally. 70 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 5: So peace for the most part, at least historically, has 71 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 5: been sort of thought about, something fuzzy around the edges. 72 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 5: Everyone has their own definition of peacefulness. So it's very 73 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 5: much an aim to be able to sort of provide 74 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 5: a bit of a data driven perspective as it pertains 75 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 5: to peace and changes in peacefulness around the world. 76 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 3: So how do you define peacefulness? 77 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 5: So one of the easiest places to start, or at 78 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 5: least where we chose to start with this is measuring 79 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 5: in this instance the opposites, and we start by measuring 80 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 5: this absence of violence or fear of violence. 81 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 4: So we take things like homicide measures, for example. 82 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 5: Numbers of violent demonstrations, the amount of conflict in countries, 83 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 5: the levels of incarceration, and then we bring all of 84 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 5: those different metrics together. The premise of this is the 85 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 5: most peaceful countries are the ones that have the lowest 86 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 5: measures in all of those different indicators as well. 87 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 2: So essentially the lower the score, the more peaceful the place. 88 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 4: That's absolutely right. 89 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 5: So to make all of this different data comparable, what 90 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 5: we do is we do go through this process of 91 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 5: banding scores everything from one to a five. It's a 92 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 5: bit of a convoluted and complex process, but it really 93 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 5: helps kind of simplify what are a lot of complex 94 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 5: sort of dynamics and indicators. 95 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 4: In a nutshell. 96 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 5: Yes, if you're living in a five, things aren't so great. 97 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 2: Right now, we're talking today, specifically about the latest findings, 98 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 2: the twenty twenty four Index out this week. Can you 99 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 2: talk me through some of the key insights from this 100 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: year's report. 101 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely. 102 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 5: First off is that peacefulness is deteriorating in particular conflict measures, 103 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 5: and we're still those conflict measures, you know, or those 104 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 5: conflicts are essentially becoming more and more difficult to resolve 105 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 5: over time. So you know, we're looking at the largest 106 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 5: number of conflicts that we have seen since the end 107 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 5: of World War II, essentially, so fifty six conflicts around 108 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 5: the world. Yes, conflicts such as Gaza and Ukraine. Those 109 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 5: countries in the headlines do weigh significantly on those particular drivers. 110 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 5: There are lots of other conflicts out there, so the Sudan, Ethiopia, 111 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 5: Myanmar that we also hear about, but as well as 112 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 5: many others that we not hearing about at all. The 113 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 5: last point I sort of wanted to make on that 114 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 5: is we've dealt in this year a bit on a 115 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 5: lot of those dynamics. 116 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 4: We see that a lot more countries are more. 117 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 5: Readily getting involved in other countries conflict, whether that be 118 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 5: in direct support of the government in that country or 119 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 5: alternatively armed groups within that country as well, and that's 120 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 5: creating quite a mess. So if we look back in 121 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 5: the days of when there was you know, essentially one superpower, 122 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 5: when the world was a lot more unique polar we 123 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 5: could see that in terms of conflicts, a lot more 124 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 5: conflicts were resolved, a lot more conflicts were resolved bilaterally. 125 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 5: So looking back in the nineteen seventies, forty nine percent, 126 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 5: almost fifty percent of all conflicts were essentially resolved by 127 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 5: one party being victorious. These days that's down to less 128 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,239 Speaker 5: than ten percent. The amount of peace agreements that assigned 129 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 5: these days has also deteriorated significantly. Then result of this 130 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 5: is that the whole lot of unresolved conflicts around there 131 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 5: as well. And it's those smaller unresolved conflict to have 132 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 5: the potential to be able to sort of beef up 133 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 5: and to blow up into the major conflicts that we're 134 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 5: seeing today. 135 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 2: That figure you mentioned, the highest number of countries engaged 136 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 2: in conflict since World War Two is pretty staggering. How 137 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: significant is the scale of that number of conflicts and 138 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 2: why now? 139 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 5: So again, I mean, I think that this is all progressive. 140 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 5: To put things in contexts slightly. I mean, we are 141 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 5: talking in terms of overall battle deaths and numbers that 142 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 5: are a lot lower than what we would have seen 143 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 5: in a Cold War, for example. So in terms of 144 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 5: overall battle deaths, that said, we've seen an increase in 145 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 5: that in the last two or three years. 146 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 4: So since the inception of the Global Piece Index. 147 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 5: We're sure that the record in battle deest this was 148 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 5: back in twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three was close 149 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 5: to this mark. Fifty thousand people have died in the 150 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 5: first four months of this year, so we're perhaps going 151 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 5: to hit a new sort of record for the Global 152 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 5: Peace Index, but going back in time, we're still lower 153 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 5: on those overall numbers. 154 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 4: But again, this. 155 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 5: Really speaks to this broader set of conflicts that there 156 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 5: was a whole likelihood now that any one of those 157 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 5: individual conflicts which yesterday was a minor conflict. We think 158 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 5: about Ethiopia, we think about Ukraine, if we think about Gaza, 159 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 5: those are all minor conflicts back in twenty nineteen, and 160 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 5: look where we are today. 161 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 2: Do you expect to see that trend of what were 162 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: previously minor conflicts becoming major ones? Do you expect to 163 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 2: see that trend continuing intensifying into more record breaking numbers 164 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 2: next year? 165 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 4: Yes. 166 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 5: I mean it's always a difficult prediction to make, but 167 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 5: in terms of the law of large numbers and what 168 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 5: we're seeing in terms of trends, that is definitely what 169 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 5: we would expect that out of some of those smaller conflicts, 170 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 5: we would see more major conflicts arise. Unless anything radically 171 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 5: changes on the world stage, I really don't see that 172 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 5: happening anytime soon. I think that there's going back to 173 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 5: the UN again. There's a lot of stagnation. There is 174 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 5: definitely a breakdown in diplomacy and increase in polarization. The 175 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 5: same level of polarization that we're seeing in civil society, 176 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 5: we're seeing very much in diplomatic circles. 177 00:08:58,600 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 4: Term there are, of. 178 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: Course dozens of global conflicts at play with the data 179 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 2: this year, but I think it would probably be remiss 180 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 2: of us not to dive a little deeper into Gaza, 181 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: the conflict there. Of course, you've been tracking these findings 182 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 2: over a period of years. How have you seen things 183 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 2: change and shift given the intensification of that conflict. 184 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 5: I mean, definitely an intensification in terms of the terrorist attack, 185 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 5: which was the largest terrorist attack worldwide since September eleventh, 186 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 5: and then of course the Israeli response in Gaza with 187 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 5: over thirty thousand Palestinians killed to date. So certainly a 188 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 5: massive escalation in a very short period of time. But 189 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 5: if you look at the overall tensions that have been 190 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 5: building between Israel and Palestine more than one decade. Over 191 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 5: the last fifteen years, we've seen that overall sentiment and 192 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 5: negative news and negative stories between one country another has 193 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 5: progressively been increasing over that time. 194 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 4: Although it's always. 195 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,679 Speaker 5: A shock when we see this quick acceleration, the underlying 196 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 5: fabric and the relations in these two countries have been 197 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 5: deteriorating for quite some time already. 198 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 2: I'm interested in understanding the scope of military spending in 199 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 2: contributing towards these results. How does military spending kind of 200 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 2: stack up compared to peace building or peacekeeping spending internationally. 201 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 5: So militarization is something that we would track as a 202 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 5: negative in this instance. 203 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 4: The exception to that would be precisely what. 204 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 5: You mentioned, Emma, which is peace keeping or peace building 205 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 5: contributions primarily through UN frameworks which are more consensus based, 206 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 5: basically as a proxy to a commitment to peace building. Now, 207 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 5: whether that's done at the same time or not is 208 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 5: the or question. And I think a lot of the 209 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 5: increasing militarization that we're seeing over the recent three or 210 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 5: four years is in response to specifically this large amount 211 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 5: of conflict that we're now seeing around the world. So 212 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 5: it's a batto logical response as well. But ultimately war 213 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 5: doesn't pay. We do a lot of research around the 214 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 5: economic value of peace. Over one hundred countries became more 215 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 5: militarized last year, eighty six of them increased their military expenditure. 216 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 5: So it's unfortunate that we're seeing that versaal in a 217 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 5: trend that had actually been improving over the prior ten years. 218 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 2: One of the interesting findings to me was learning that 219 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:11,719 Speaker 2: the US has more significant military power than China. Did 220 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 2: that come as a surprise to you and the team? 221 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 4: I don't think it came so much as a surprise 222 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 4: to me. 223 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 5: I spent a lot of time living in the US, 224 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 5: so I spent a lot of time hearing how great 225 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 5: the American military is. 226 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 3: Makes sense for context for us here at home. Asia. 227 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 2: Pacific tensions are you know, a big part of the 228 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 2: new cycle, and that certainly dominates the dialogue here from 229 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 2: a defense perspective, and a lot of foreign spending and 230 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 2: military spending tends to be built on a sort of 231 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 2: rhetoric about the imposing fear and growth and power of China. 232 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 5: And again that is totally understandable, Yes, and I think 233 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 5: Americans would be relieved to see that they have still 234 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 5: three times the capability at least along those lines than 235 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,079 Speaker 5: China would have. But one of the interesting things I 236 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 5: should say is actually the significant increase in military capacity 237 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 5: that China has had over the last five years. So 238 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 5: although it's still well below the United States, it's growing 239 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 5: in capacity very very quickly. 240 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 2: Indeed, I want to talk to you about some of 241 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 2: the more hopeful findings from the index. Who or where 242 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 2: was the most peaceful country in twenty twenty three. 243 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 5: So the most peaceful country in twenty twenty three. Last 244 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 5: twenty twenty four was Iceland. Iceland has been the most 245 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 5: peaceful country since the inception of the Global Peace Index. 246 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 4: In fact, it's so far ahead that it would take 247 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 4: quite a bit of deterioration for that to actually swap. 248 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 5: As far as we can see, there's not any magical 249 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 5: transformative power of being in Iceland. It's just an accumulation 250 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 5: of circumstances. In fact, Iceland did deteriorate and peacefulness this year, 251 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 5: including increase in violent demonstrations for example. 252 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 4: And there are a lot of. 253 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 5: Other peaceful countries around the world, so Ireland, Austria, New Zealand, Singapore, Switzerland. 254 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 5: Australia does relatively well as well. Unfortunately, the United States 255 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 5: does quite poorly currently run T one hundred and thirty second, so. 256 00:12:58,440 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 4: Not great there. 257 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 5: But one of the most interesting things that the Global 258 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 5: Peace Index allows us to do is to set that 259 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 5: sort of benchmark for peacefulness. So this forms the basis 260 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 5: of our positive peace work, which is essentially a statistical 261 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 5: analysis to be able to ascertain what are the socioeconomic 262 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 5: and attitudinal factors that create a sustained peace. 263 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 3: So what is Iceland getting right? 264 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 2: I feel like countries like Iceland pop up all the 265 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 2: time in these global studies. 266 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 3: What are the Icelandics doing that We're not? 267 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 4: Well? 268 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 5: As I mentioned, New Zealand is pretty up there, as 269 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 5: is Australia. Hanna did us pretty well too, and most 270 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 5: of the European countries are quite peaceful too. Surprisingly, one 271 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 5: of the things that I have noted in this particular 272 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 5: index is that some of the Scandinavian countries have dropped 273 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 5: off a bit, so perhaps not as true. 274 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 4: As it once was. 275 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 5: I mean, if we think back using the same metrics, 276 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 5: Europe would be one of the least peaceful countries if 277 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 5: we looked at it back in the days of World 278 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 5: War II, for example. 279 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: Right. 280 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 5: Rather than concentrating on Iceland specifically, I'd love to be 281 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 5: able to broaden it out to what we see helps 282 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 5: create sustained peaceful countries over sort of five hundred socio 283 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 5: economic indicators that we see share a strong statistical correlation. 284 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 5: As these improve, we see that peacefulness improves on the 285 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 5: other end, And there's a whole bunch of stuff, so 286 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 5: you can't really single out an individual one, but we 287 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 5: can broadly throw them into eight buckets. 288 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 4: Right. These are what we call the eight pillars of. 289 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 5: Positive peace, essentially the characteristics of peaceful societies. This includes 290 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 5: a well functioning government, equitable distribution of resources, free flow 291 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 5: of information, good relations with neighbors, high loves of human capital, 292 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 5: acceptance to the rights of others, low levels of corruption, 293 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 5: and a sound business environment. 294 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 2: So given that, what does Australia need to do to 295 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 2: improve its peacefulness? 296 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 5: We definitely offer something like the Positive Peace Framework as 297 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 5: a tool for individual countries, societies, communities, neighborhoods and even 298 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 5: organizations to be able to assess where they fall on 299 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 5: the peace diagram and to score themselves around these particular pillars. 300 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 5: And the reason that we often don't participate in direct 301 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 5: policy recommendations is precisely because of a lot of this 302 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 5: positive peace building is contextual in nature, so a lot 303 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 5: of societal norms are radically different. Different countries have their 304 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 5: own path dependences, their own historical elements, their own purposes, 305 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 5: their own aims. In that sense, I turn the question 306 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 5: back to you, Emma, now that I've presented. 307 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 4: The eight Pillars of Positive Fears. So what do you 308 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 4: think Australia should do. 309 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 2: Now that you have presented the pillars? Michael, I'm wondering 310 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 2: if climate change is disrupting peacefulness perhaps in a country 311 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: like Australia, where our natural landscape seems to bring so 312 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 2: much pride and joy to a lot. 313 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 3: Of people's life. I wonder if that has a role 314 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 3: to play. 315 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 5: It does in the sense that that is something that 316 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 5: we can very much validate through our work. So parallel 317 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 5: to the Global Peace Index. For the last five years now, 318 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 5: we've been producing a report called Ecological Threat Report. 319 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 4: Now it doesn't look at climate change uniquely. 320 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 5: What it does is it looks at levels of food 321 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 5: and security, water stress, natural disasters, and rapid population growth, 322 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 5: all of these things other than rapid population growth and 323 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 5: perhaps quakes, of things that could be and are aggravated 324 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 5: by climate change. The reason I'm bringing that up is 325 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 5: because we do see a very close correlation between ecological 326 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 5: degradation and deteriorations in peacefulness as well. 327 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 2: I do wonder given that we're in the midst of 328 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 2: an historic election year global elections around the country, hundreds 329 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: of millions of people casting votes across the year, if 330 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 2: that will play a role in negatively or positively affecting peacefulness. 331 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 4: It's a very good question for us. 332 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 5: It fundamentally comes down to what are the underlying resilience 333 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 5: measures underpinning that. We often talk about tipping points, right, 334 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 5: if we see that there is a country the lower 335 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 5: levels of resilience that may be scraping by and an 336 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 5: election or the result from an election maybe lights the 337 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 5: spark of revolt. As you know, this year, most of 338 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 5: the world is going to the elections, so building on 339 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 5: the fact that we're seeing this increasing amount of conflict, 340 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 5: we definitely see additional risk there. 341 00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 2: Michael, thank you so much for joining us on the 342 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 2: days and thank you for your time. 343 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us on the Daily Ohs 344 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 1: this morning. I really enjoyed that episode. Thank you m 345 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: for that interview. If you learn something from today's episode, 346 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: don't forget to hit subscribe. So there's a tdy eight 347 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: episode waiting for you every weekday morning. We'll be back 348 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: again tomorrow for your Friday episode. Until then, have a 349 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: great Thursday. My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a 350 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: proud Arunda Bungelung Calcoton woman from Gadigol country. The Daily 351 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands 352 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: of the Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal 353 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects 354 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: to the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.