1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Today's podcast is brought to you by pay id. Today 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: we're going to get into the rise of scams in Australia. 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,039 Speaker 1: An important tool that can help combat scams is pay ID. 4 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: When sending money to a pay id, you'll be shown 5 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: the name of the person or business links to it 6 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: before you get sent. That means more peace of mind. 7 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: Your money's going to the right place already. 8 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 2: And this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. 9 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 3: Oh now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to 10 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 3: the Daily OS. It's Sunday, the eighteenth of May. I'm 11 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 3: Billy fitz Simon. 12 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: I'm Sam Becauseloski, We're. 13 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 3: Back in your ears on a Sunday morning. Couldn't stay 14 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 3: away for two long Happy Sunday, Sam. This time we 15 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 3: are here to talk about scams. Now. Scams are on 16 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 3: the rise in Australia, and not only are they increasing 17 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 3: in volume, but they are also becoming more sophisticated than 18 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 3: ever before, particularly in the age of artificial intelligence. So 19 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 3: what is being done to combat the rise of scams 20 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 3: and is it working. We'll break it all down for 21 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 3: you in today's podcast, So. 22 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: Billy, we asked the audience on tda's Instagram what questions 23 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: they wanted us to answer about scams, but before we 24 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: get there, I'm keen to get an understanding from you 25 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: of the broader context. 26 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 2: Here. 27 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: Are scams actually increasing in Australia. 28 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 3: Yes, they are in terms of how many people are 29 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 3: falling victim to them. And I don't think that's necessarily 30 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 3: surprising because I think when you think of the kind 31 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 3: of person who could fall victim to a scam, I 32 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 3: think you typically think of like someone of an older 33 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 3: generation who perhaps isn't as tech savvy. But I think, 34 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 3: like we're going to talk about their becoming much more sophisticated, 35 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 3: and I think they're targeting younger people as well. 36 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: And I feel like, because we're so much more connected 37 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: in so many different ways, there's actually just more avenues 38 00:01:59,200 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: for scams. 39 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, okay, So to give you some data. In 40 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, the ABS reports that about ten percent 41 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 3: of Australians aged fifteen years and over were victims of 42 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 3: card fraud. Now that's a little bit different to scams. 43 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 3: Card fraud is when someone's card is used to make 44 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 3: a purchase or withdraw cash without the person's permission, and 45 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 3: that statistic of ten percent is up from about nine 46 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,679 Speaker 3: percent from the year before, so just in one year 47 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 3: it increased by one percent, which if you think about 48 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 3: how many people are in Australia, that's a lot of 49 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 3: people now. In terms of scams, the ABS also found 50 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 3: that there has been an increase in the number of 51 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 3: Australians responding to scams. So this is usually when you 52 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 3: are deceived into providing money or giving personal information or 53 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 3: something like that to someone with the purpose of them 54 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 3: stealing from you. In twenty twenty four, three point one 55 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 3: percent of Australians were victims of this kind of scam, 56 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 3: and that's up from two point five percent in the 57 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 3: previous year. But what I do do you want to 58 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 3: point out is that even though the number of victims 59 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 3: has increased, the amount being stolen collectively actually hasn't. But 60 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 3: we can get to that. 61 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: It's a really interesting statistic and it's a really interesting 62 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: kind of portrayal of how things were in twenty twenty 63 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: four because I think the other big point to make 64 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: here is that we've talked about scams a lot, more 65 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: so the fact that we're still seeing that increase in 66 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: the number of Australians who are victims to a scam 67 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,519 Speaker 1: go up with so much public information out there kind 68 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: of makes that increase even worse. 69 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're saying like there's more awareness, definitely, and more 70 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 3: people are kind of looking out for it, but it 71 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 3: is still increasing. 72 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: I know it's been a big focus of the federal government, 73 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: for example, it's really trying to make sure that there's 74 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: education around scams. Yeah, so why is there an increase then? 75 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 3: Basically it's because they are getting more sophisticated now. Even 76 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 3: at TDA, we have kind of this famous story in 77 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 3: the office of a time when we nearly fell victim 78 00:03:58,520 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 3: to a scam. 79 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: Tell the story scam because lost k comes to the 80 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: forefront here. So and it's still happening. Actually, yes, everybody 81 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: who joins TDA, and we think, we're not sure, but 82 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: we think it's them updating their LinkedIn profile to say 83 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: that they have started a new job at TDA, every 84 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: new starter gets an email from me, and the email says, 85 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: welcome to the company, can you do a discrete task 86 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: for me? A very interesting use of the phrase there, 87 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: And I guess they're kind of trying to capitalize on 88 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: people who might feel a bit nervous with a new 89 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: boss for the first time. New workplace, not really sure 90 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: how things work, and the ask from me is for 91 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: them to go to their near a supermarket and buy 92 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: a bunch of gift cards that they are then required 93 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: to take photos of and send back to me. 94 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 3: But just to clarify, it's not actually you sending the email. 95 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: It's my alter ego scam. No, it is not me 96 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: at all. And now we actually get in the front 97 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: fward and actually tell new starters about this happening, because 98 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: it's just it's every time. 99 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 3: And it's because we are now so on top of it, 100 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 3: because we did have one employee actually go down the 101 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 3: path of nearly buying that cass She. 102 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: Was on her way to market to purchase gift cards 103 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: that she was going to send photos of to this 104 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: account that said it was me, and she was at 105 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: the point of actually asking me if it was okay 106 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: if she did that after her first pay run, like 107 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: it was really concerning it. Luckily, I really messaged her 108 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: that day to say, so glad to have you on board, 109 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: and she said, great to be here. By the way, 110 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: is it okay if we wait until after the pay run? 111 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: And I said, okay, we need to take a second year, 112 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: but it's quite a if you think about it's quite 113 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: a sophisticated scam. 114 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that does tell us how these 115 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 3: scams are becoming more sophisticated, partly because just like that one, 116 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 3: they're becoming more personalized and they're becoming more targeted definitely, 117 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 3: so it's really tailored to kind of the specific person 118 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 3: that they are sending the message to. 119 00:05:59,320 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: Now. 120 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 3: As still why they are becoming more sophisticated, it's actually 121 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 3: partly to do with artificial intelligence or AI. SAM one 122 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 3: of your great loves is AI. But this is definitely 123 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 3: one of the downside to how AI is developing and 124 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 3: how it's being misused. Now, there are two main ways 125 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 3: that AI is really changing the scam landscape. One is 126 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 3: sophistication and the other is volume. So it's making scams 127 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 3: more advanced, more realistic, and harder to detect, and it's 128 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 3: allowing offenders to reach more people than ever before. To 129 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 3: give you an example of the sophistication side, PwC in 130 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 3: the UK did a report about how AI is being 131 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 3: used by scammers to do things like create voice clones, 132 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 3: so something like a voice message being used, and there 133 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 3: were even examples of real time conversations happening, kind of 134 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 3: like what happened with TDA, where the scammer and the 135 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 3: employee were in this real time conversation and she just 136 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 3: had no idea that it wasn't you because there were 137 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 3: instant replies happening. 138 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: But it's crazy to think that there could be a world, 139 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: or there is a world now where my voice could 140 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: be used as a voice clone to call that person 141 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, it sounds like me 142 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: given instructions. 143 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 3: And that's exactly what this report found was happening. That 144 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 3: employees were getting voice notes from their CEO, and it's 145 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 3: not just one voice note, it's an ongoing conversation that 146 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 3: appears to be very realistic. Another possibility is creating deep 147 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 3: fake videos of celebrities to promote investment scams. So there 148 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,679 Speaker 3: are all of these different ways where AI is really 149 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 3: infiltrating the scam landscape to make them appear so much 150 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 3: more realistic than they ever could before. 151 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: So it's clear that there's a lot of progress in 152 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: the spam world, and not all of it is easy 153 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: to tackle right here, right now. So I want to 154 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: turn to some of the questions that were asked by 155 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: the audience, And the first question is how do scammers 156 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: actually get my number and why are they allowed to 157 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: have it in the first place. 158 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 3: So there's no one way that they can obtain your number. 159 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 3: There's lots of different ways. One is through data breaches, 160 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 3: So I feel like last year we heard a lot 161 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 3: of examples of different data breaches happening at major companies. 162 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 3: So if a company that stores your information experiences a 163 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 3: security breach that could expose your number, that's one way. 164 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 3: There are also data broker websites, which are companies that 165 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 3: literally just gather and sell personal information. Now you might 166 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 3: be wondering if that's legal. The answer is actually yes 167 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 3: if they're using public records to obtain the information, but 168 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 3: it is illegal if they are obtaining your private information 169 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 3: without your consent. And also even something like if your 170 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 3: social media accounts have your number attached to them, that's 171 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 3: another way that they could potentially obtain your information. And 172 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 3: then of course there's also the dark web, where illegal 173 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 3: data sharing is very common. 174 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: We had a lot of people message saying that they 175 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: had placed them so on the do not Call register. 176 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: I've put myself on that, have you, Yeah, but I 177 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: still get spam calls sometimes I'm getting them daily. Yeah, 178 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: why is that? 179 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 3: So that's because they do not call. Register isn't actually 180 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 3: designed to stop scam calls. It actually has nothing to 181 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 3: do with scams. So they do not call Register, which 182 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 3: is a government initiative, is to stop you from receiving 183 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 3: calls from telemarketers. So it's a marketing thing, and that's 184 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 3: different obviously from scams. So telemarketing is legal, although there 185 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 3: are rules and regulations about when and how they can 186 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 3: call you. 187 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: And that's an example, I guess of the government trying 188 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: to step into the process and trying to facilitate unwelcome approaches, 189 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: whether it's from telemarketers or scammers or whoever. It's from 190 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 1: being reduced. What else can the government be doing? Can 191 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: they actually stop scams? 192 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an interesting question. They're definitely trying. So their 193 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 3: main policy here is called the National Anti Scam Center. 194 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 3: Are you familiar with it, Sam. 195 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: No, But it's got a I always try and work 196 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: out the acronyms. 197 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 3: Now, yeah, NASK doesn't quite but now the aim of NASK, 198 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 3: actually that's not going to it doesn't roll off the tongue. 199 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 3: I'm just going to say the National Anti Scam Center. 200 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 3: It doesn't have a nickname, that's fine, But the aim 201 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 3: is to improve data and information sharing between the government, 202 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 3: law enforcement, and the private sector to create a more 203 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 3: coordinated effort to combat scams. So, to give you a 204 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 3: really basic example, if a telco like Vodaphone discovers a 205 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 3: phone number is being used for scams, then they would 206 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 3: be legally obligated to share that information with other telcos 207 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 3: as well as the government, so that they can all 208 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 3: actively block that number and stop it from contacting other 209 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 3: potential victim. Interesting, So under this framework, private companies are 210 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 3: legally required to share the info they have about scams. 211 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 3: And this is quite a new thing. It only came 212 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 3: about in twenty twenty three, in July twenty two, so 213 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 3: it hasn't even been around for two years. 214 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: So it makes a lot of sense to me that 215 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: you would kind of work as a telco to understand, Hey, 216 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: that number is called three hundred and fifty people in 217 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,439 Speaker 1: an hour, so that there must be something fishy going 218 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: on there. Is that program actually working and do we 219 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: have any evidence on whether it's making the impact it 220 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: was designed to have? 221 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, it actually is working. And this goes to what 222 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 3: I was saying before, where the volume of scams is increasing, 223 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 3: but the amount being lost by Australians actually isn't so. 224 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 3: The latest report from the National Anti Scam Center found 225 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 3: that Australians lost about two billion dollars to scams in 226 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, which is absolutely a lot, but if 227 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 3: you compare it to twenty twenty three, that's a twenty 228 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 3: five percent decrease, which is quite substantial. In just prere 229 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 3: to give you a bit more context, the amount of 230 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 3: Australians were losing to scams peaked at about three billion 231 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 3: dollars in twenty twenty two, but since then and since 232 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 3: this law came into effect, the amount being lost has 233 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 3: decreased in twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four. 234 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: There's also a really interesting story in all of that 235 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: data around the impact of the pandemic and having people 236 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: at home more, spending more time online, spending more time 237 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: near kind of phones and laptops that they think that 238 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 1: there's a bit of a connection between that three billion 239 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: dollar peak in twenty twenty two. 240 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 3: And wow COVID, Yeah that makes sense. 241 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so what's the advice now to protect yourself 242 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: from scams? We know that there's that do not call register. 243 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: We know that there's kind of government programs that are 244 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: out there to try and reduce that. We know that 245 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: the government is thinking about it, but what can we 246 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: be doing? 247 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 3: So the government actually announce a new campaign to raise 248 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 3: awareness about how to protect yourself against scams earlier this year. Now, 249 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 3: the key recommendations are to stop. That's the first kind 250 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 3: of recommendation to before you share any personal information, to 251 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 3: just stop and think about what you're doing and if 252 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 3: you really trust the person or the company that you 253 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 3: are providing this information to. The next is to check 254 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 3: which kind of goes to the same thing that you 255 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 3: want to know who you're dealing with and who you're 256 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 3: giving your card to or who you're giving your personal 257 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 3: information to sure And then the last one is to 258 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 3: protect yourself against scams by always taking actions like reporting 259 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 3: them if you do see them, to scam watch dot 260 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 3: gov dot au. If you have seen a scam or 261 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 3: you've received a message that you think looks like a scam, 262 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 3: you can then go to that website and report them. 263 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: And sometimes the kind of first step that a lot 264 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: of people instinctively take is by talking to their bank 265 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: or their financial provider, and that's always a good step, 266 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: and never be afraid to ask those institutions. Definitely what 267 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: you should be doing as well. But I think that 268 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: whole idea of nobody should be putting you under pressure 269 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: to immediately provide them with your financial information. That's a 270 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 1: good rule of thumb to stop, check and protect. 271 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 3: No one should be putting you under pressure to complete 272 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 3: a discrete task. 273 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: Their tasks should not be described stop. Billy, thank you 274 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: so much for taking us through through that. Really appreciate it. 275 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: It's a really important issue. Especially there was one thing 276 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: you mentioned right at the beginning I just want to 277 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: end on, which is that scams are in twenty twenty five, 278 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: not just about older members of the population, No, and 279 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: we really need to normalize the conversations at all age 280 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: groups to make sure that we all keep each other safe. Billy, 281 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: thanks so much, thank you, and that's all we've got 282 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: for you on today's episode of The Daily OS. But 283 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: we're going to be back again tomorrow morning with the 284 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: Deep Dive. Until then, have a lovely end to your 285 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: weekend and we'll hit you up again tomorrow with the. 286 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 2: Week My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud 287 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 2: Arunda Bunjelung Kalgutin woman from Gadigl country. The Daily os 288 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 2: acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of 289 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 2: the Gatighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and 290 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 2: Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to 291 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 2: the first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 292 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: So we've looked into how the landscape of scams is 293 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: chang along with the role of AI and as we 294 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: now know, scammers are getting crafty, especially in online marketplaces. 295 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: But there are still safe ways to send money when 296 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: you're buying something online, and one of those ways is PAYID. 297 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: Instead of needing somebody's BSB and account number, you just 298 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: use their mobile number or email that's linked to their 299 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: bank account, and before you send money, you'll be shown 300 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: the name linked to the PAYID, so you can double 301 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: check it's going to the right person. You should also 302 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: remember that PAYID will never text, email or message you directly. 303 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: They're not going to tell you to upgrade your accounts 304 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: or send money to receive money. If you get a 305 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: message like that, you've got to steer clear. That is 306 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: a scam. Now, if you do happen to fall for 307 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: a scam. The first step is contacting your bank as 308 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: soon as possible, and it's always worth flagging it with 309 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: friends or family so they don't fall for the same thing. 310 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: The more people know, the harder it's going to be 311 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: for these scammers to win.