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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, this is a book that really asks hard questions

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Speaker 2: and then it asks something harder. It asks us to

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Speaker 2: develop the courage of asking hard questions ourselves. And that's

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Speaker 2: what I love about it.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and Dad.

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Speaker 2: We talk about all kinds of things on the Happy

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Speaker 2: Families podcast, but there's one thing in particular that I

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Speaker 2: just love to do. And this is only the second

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Speaker 2: time we've done it, but I'm so pumped for it.

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Speaker 2: Book Club. Well, it's not technically book club, but Kylie

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Speaker 2: and I love to read. We read as many books

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Speaker 2: as we can possibly squeeze into our lives while we're

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Speaker 2: trying to do everything else. And Kylie missus. Happy Families.

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Speaker 2: It's back. It's been a month since we talked about it.

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Speaker 2: Last last month was kind of funny. Between some quite

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Speaker 2: provocative titles and a book that you loved that I hated,

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Speaker 2: we generated a fair bit of conversation around what books

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Speaker 2: are good and what books are not. Today, we're going

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Speaker 2: to do it again with a couple of books that

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Speaker 2: we've been reading over the last month or so since

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Speaker 2: our last podcast that we think we need to talk

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Speaker 2: about and I should highlight as well. We're not necessarily

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Speaker 2: sharing with you books that we've loved. We're literally just

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Speaker 2: sharing the books we're reading. So, as difficult as it

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Speaker 2: might be, we might say some things about books that

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Speaker 2: we don't love, like I couldn't stand that book. I'm

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Speaker 2: not even going to say what it was last month

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Speaker 2: that you loved. So, Kylie, why don't you start us off?

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Speaker 2: What have you been reading that you think everybody needs

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Speaker 2: to know that you've been reading.

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Speaker 3: So one of the books that I have just recently

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Speaker 3: read is by Amy Taylor Kebaz could Mumma rising?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I love Amy.

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Speaker 3: She's great and I actually I actually wrote a blog post.

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Speaker 2: Yeah you did about for a happy Famili's Premium members. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And she reintroduced me to the word made trescence. Have

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Speaker 3: you heard of it before?

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Speaker 2: Only because I know Amy's work. So matrescence is kind

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Speaker 2: of like the equivalent of adolescence. So adolescence trying to

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Speaker 2: work out who you are because you're growing into an adult,

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Speaker 2: Matrescence is like now I'm a mum and I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to figure out who I am because my identity changes again,

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Speaker 2: or a dad for that matter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this idea that once you become a mum,

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Speaker 3: you actually never leave that stage of discovery because you're

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Speaker 3: changing all the time. And so that kind.

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Speaker 2: Of ties in with what we were talking about with

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Speaker 2: the Dad Rage, the Parenting Rage podcast we did a

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Speaker 2: couple of days ago on Tuesday, when we talk about

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Speaker 2: how parenting is self discovery.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was such a simple, simplistic read, very

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Speaker 3: very easy to get through. So for any time poor

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Speaker 3: parent who's kind of going, how am I going to

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Speaker 3: get through books? This was just a really easy read.

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Speaker 2: So Amy used to be a journalist, which is why

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Speaker 2: she communicates so clearly. She really knows how to take

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Speaker 2: a thought and convey it with clarity.

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Speaker 3: And I just I loved what she said. We grow

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Speaker 3: up believing that when we have a baby, we become

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Speaker 3: a mother, Like giving birth lands us a destination mother,

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Speaker 3: but motherhood that's a whole other story. It's not so

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Speaker 3: much a destination as it is a stage of life,

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Speaker 3: maybe even more aptly described as a way of being made.

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Speaker 3: Tressence like adolescens, is the emergence of a whole new identity,

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Speaker 3: physical emotional, societal, spiritual. It starts with the very first

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Speaker 3: thought of pregnancy and does not really ever end. But

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Speaker 3: until now, we've ignored the massive shifts with a woman

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Speaker 3: and have assumed she'll go back to who she used

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Speaker 3: to be, just with mother added to the list of

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Speaker 3: what she does. And what I loved about that was

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Speaker 3: I watch it all the time. I got to baby

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Speaker 3: number three before it really hit me that I couldn't

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Speaker 3: actually do what I used to be able to do

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Speaker 3: with one child or before I had children, and it

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Speaker 3: was such, I'm going to say, an identity crisis moment

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Speaker 3: in my life where it was like, well, if I

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Speaker 3: can't do that, then what am I capable of doing?

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Speaker 3: Am I capable of doing anything? Is there anything noteworthy

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Speaker 3: in what I'm doing? Because I loved what I was

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Speaker 3: able to do back then, but didn't feel like anything

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Speaker 3: I was doing at that point with now three children

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Speaker 3: under toe had the same impact or the same magnitude,

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Speaker 3: Which is.

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Speaker 2: Really surprising to say, because when we spoke about how

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Speaker 2: we would grow our family, You've always said all I've

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Speaker 2: ever wanted to do was be a mum. You've been

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Speaker 2: fairly upfront about saying I didn't really have career aspirations.

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Speaker 2: I really just wanted to be a mum, And yet

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Speaker 2: here you are as mum and saying, but who am I? Now?

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Speaker 2: What does this mean? And I can't do what I

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Speaker 2: used to do? So what does that mean about who

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Speaker 2: I am? And my capacity and all that sort of thing?

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Speaker 2: So I love I love that insight.

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Speaker 3: Well, what I love about this idea of matrescence is

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Speaker 3: just this acknowledgment. I wish I had have known this

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Speaker 3: so many years ago and recognize just the journey that

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Speaker 3: being a mother is and recognize that every part of

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Speaker 3: it is normal. All of the feelings that you have

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Speaker 3: as a mum are normal.

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Speaker 2: I'm starting to I'm starting as smile on myself as

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Speaker 2: I consider the size of the pile of books that

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Speaker 2: our children are going to get from them when they

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Speaker 2: become parents, or You've got to read this one, you

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Speaker 2: got to read that one. It sounds to me like

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Speaker 2: this book Mumma Rising by Amy Taylor Cabaz will be

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Speaker 2: one that you would want to stick in that pile.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. I finished my blog and I

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Speaker 3: just said, if only I knew all those years ago

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Speaker 3: that all of it is normal, all my fears, all

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Speaker 3: my doubts, all my unknowing, my inability, my confusion, all

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Speaker 3: of it. It's not a sign of my lack of

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Speaker 3: my incompetence, my failure to be. It's the new me, emerging, learning, growing, becoming.

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Speaker 2: How many stars, Kylie, I'm going to give it four,

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Speaker 2: four stars out of five. Yeah, okay, Mumma Rising, Amy

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Speaker 2: Taylor Cabaz. I'm going to be speaking with Amy a

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Speaker 2: little later this year with some pretty cool stuff that's

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Speaker 2: coming up. So you weren't aware of that until right now,

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Speaker 2: but I'm just letting you know there's more from Amy

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Speaker 2: Cumming for the Happy Families community. I'm going to throw

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Speaker 2: in two books really quickly in this first half of

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Speaker 2: our book club because I've been doing a lot of reading.

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Speaker 2: I read a novel for fun. I don't very often

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Speaker 2: read novels. I tend to be a nonfiction guy rather

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Speaker 2: than the fix. But I read a book by Taylor

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Speaker 2: Jenkins read called Malibu Rising, and then I handed it

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Speaker 2: to you. It's pretty raw in some places. It's actually

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Speaker 2: kind of hard to read. Where a non course language

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Speaker 2: kind of family, we prefer to keep things kind of

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Speaker 2: g ORPG rated, I guess, but this one is definitely

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Speaker 2: not that. This one is a pretty raw book, but

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Speaker 2: in terms of novels and in terms of compelling reads,

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Speaker 2: this was unput downable, not even a word. But I'm

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Speaker 2: giving it five stars. Malibu Rising, Taylor Jenkins read. It's

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Speaker 2: a fictional story about a family with a superstar dad

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Speaker 2: who basically leaves them. A mum who turns to alcohol,

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Speaker 2: and I won't talk too much about what happens with her,

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Speaker 2: but the three adult kids are trying to piece their

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Speaker 2: lives together and dad shows up right at the end,

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Speaker 2: right when everything is absolutely blowing up. It's an incredibly

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Speaker 2: good book. I loved it. Be warned for some of

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Speaker 2: the content if you have a a soft disposition like

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Speaker 2: we tend to. But gee, five stars because it was

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Speaker 2: so well written, so compelling.

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Speaker 3: The way Jenkins read weaved all of these different lives

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Speaker 3: and storylines into one.

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Speaker 2: Although it spreads into a tapestry. I was amazing to

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Speaker 2: the very end. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was going to

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Speaker 2: do two, but it's time for a break. After the break,

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Speaker 2: I've got two more. You've got one more. As Paul Club,

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Speaker 2: I'm a Happy Families podcast. If you have more than

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Speaker 2: one child, there's a simple truth. They're going to fight,

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Speaker 2: they're going to compete, and they're going to have relationship troubles.

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Speaker 2: But the real secret isn't how to stop the fighting,

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Speaker 2: it's how to teach them kindness. The Teaching Kids Kindness

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Speaker 2: webinar will help you to do just that, but also

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Speaker 2: help them build lifelong sibling bonds that lead to lifelong friendships.

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Speaker 2: Check out Teaching Kids Kindness at happy families dot com

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Speaker 2: dot a U.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 3: poor parent who just want's answers. Now I go first.

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Speaker 3: I can't believe it. You're always always just trying to

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Speaker 3: get you know.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, it's because I've read more books.

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Speaker 3: Oh is that what it is?

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Speaker 1: Read?

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Speaker 2: And do you know what, I've got another couple of

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Speaker 2: books that I'm almost finished for next month's book club already.

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited to tell you about them, but they

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Speaker 2: have to wait until next month.

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Speaker 3: This is all right, what's your what's your other two?

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Speaker 2: This is July book Club August book over Achievers. Awesome. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so the next one is a book by one of

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Speaker 2: my favorite academics. The guy's name is Professor Todd Kashton,

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Speaker 2: I've been involved in correspondence with Todd now for probably

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Speaker 2: ten or fifteen years. Great guy, absolute crack up. He's

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Speaker 2: a really counterintuitive kind of thinker. He's really probing kind

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Speaker 2: of thinker. And he wrote a book that came out

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Speaker 2: a little bit earlier this year. It took me a

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Speaker 2: bit to get to it. The book is called The

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Speaker 2: Art of Insubordination. The Art of Insubordination. So there's a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of books. In fact, I had many of

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Speaker 2: them on my bookshelf until I did a cul recently,

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Speaker 2: books like Raising Rebel, all of these kinds of books

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Speaker 2: about challenging their status quo and why we need to

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Speaker 2: be courageous and get into the habit of asking hard questions.

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Speaker 2: But none of the books have been really that good,

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Speaker 2: which is why I culled them. Todd Cashton, though, is

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Speaker 2: one of those unique thinkers who I think really courageously

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Speaker 2: asks questions about hard topics a lot of people would

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Speaker 2: rather avoid. And this is a book that really asks

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Speaker 2: hard questions and then it asks something harder. It asks

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Speaker 2: us to develop the courage of asking and the habit

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Speaker 2: of asking hard questions ourselves, questions that matter. But doing

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Speaker 2: it in a principal way, and that's what I love

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Speaker 2: about it. So there are three things that this book

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Speaker 2: does supremely well. The first is that he weaves these

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Speaker 2: extraordinary stories the demand that you just keep on reading.

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Speaker 2: Often people will pull a story out and they'll tell

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Speaker 2: you a story to illustrate a point. But Todd's done

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Speaker 2: such a great job with this. My favorite, sorry, the

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Speaker 2: one that jumps out at me is, I'm reflecting on

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Speaker 2: the book. There's the NBA player who shoots free throws

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Speaker 2: granny style.

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Speaker 3: I remember you telling me this at more.

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Speaker 2: Than ninety four percent accuracy. But because so, granny style

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Speaker 2: is like you hold the ball between your legs and

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Speaker 2: then you throw it up towards the hoop like like

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Speaker 2: a I don't know, like granny wearing the skirt.

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Speaker 3: It's a bit hard to do that though, when you're

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Speaker 3: kind of full momentum racing down the track.

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Speaker 2: We're doing about a free throw. Oh wait, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 2: not in the middle of the game. I don't know

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Speaker 2: free throws. So he's got ninety four percent accuracy, but

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Speaker 2: everyone else does the overhead free throw shots.

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Speaker 3: Because it looks cooler.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's right. And this guy's bucking the trend.

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Speaker 2: But he's shooting at ninety four percent. The very best

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Speaker 2: free throwers, I mean, Shack was not a good free

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Speaker 2: throw but he landed about fifty percent forty to fifty percent,

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Speaker 2: and the very very good ones usually land somewhere between

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Speaker 2: seventy and eighty percent. If you're above eighty percent, it's outstanding.

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Speaker 2: And this guy's at ninety four percent. But nobody will

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Speaker 2: do it, even though it's more accurate, because they don't

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Speaker 2: want to look silly, in other words, not willing to

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Speaker 2: insubordinate the status quo the norm just one player is

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Speaker 2: willing to do it. I think that's a compelling story.

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Speaker 2: Then there's a story of the questions that arose after

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Speaker 2: the tragic accidental death of the first female US Air

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Speaker 2: Force fighter pilot. There was a rebellion by in New

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Speaker 2: York by the name of Elizabeth Jennings in an act

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Speaker 2: of racial insubordination, one hundred years before Rosa Parks on

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Speaker 2: the Bus. An amazing, really fun story about punk rockers.

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Speaker 2: Fugazi or fugazi, I guess it depends on who you

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Speaker 2: are and how you want to say it. There are

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Speaker 2: literally a dozen stories that I've never read before. Typically

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Speaker 2: When you pick up these kinds of books, you hear

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Speaker 2: a lot of the same stories. People really rely on

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Speaker 2: the same stuff that's out there. And I loved it

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Speaker 2: because the stories were unique, but they were so well told.

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Speaker 2: The second thing I know, I'm waffling. I need to

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Speaker 2: hurry up. The second thing is that he's such a

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Speaker 2: great scientist. The integrates the very best psychological science with

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Speaker 2: those stories, science that you haven't read about in other books.

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Speaker 2: You're not going to hear the same stuff that everyone

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Speaker 2: else writes about and talks about in copies and continues

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Speaker 2: to inculcate into this saturated psychology bookshelf. This stuff's original,

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Speaker 2: and I love it, and it's provocative and it's hitting

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Speaker 2: the right notes. And the third thing that I love

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Speaker 2: is just the momentum. It's not one of those books

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Speaker 2: that makes you think I'll read some more later, I

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Speaker 2: should just check my email now. It's one of those

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Speaker 2: books that it makes you feel like the kids are

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Speaker 2: probably gonna have to get dinner for themselves because you

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Speaker 2: just want to keep on reading one more chapter. So

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Speaker 2: the appshot Professor Todd Kashton outstanding book, The Art of Insubordination,

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Speaker 2: Taking complicated Science and making it accessible and practical and real,

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Speaker 2: and telling us why we should be more insubordinate. Five stars.

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Speaker 3: Five stars. You've been handing them out so easy.

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Speaker 2: I've been picking. It's not an easy thing to get

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Speaker 2: a five star review with.

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Speaker 3: You usually, but you keep throwing them out.

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Speaker 2: This was a great book.

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Speaker 3: My last book for today is called The Anatomy of

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Speaker 3: Peace by the Arbinger.

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Speaker 2: Five stars. It's one of my favorites from years ago.

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Speaker 2: I saw that on your bookcase, on your bookshelf.

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Speaker 3: What I love about the way the Institute rites is

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Speaker 3: it's literally first person novel style writing. It's like you're

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Speaker 3: actually right there sitting as it's all unfolding.

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Speaker 2: So it's fictional, but it's teaching principles.

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Speaker 3: And this one is specifically focused on this idea that

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Speaker 3: whether we are at war or peace is actually within

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Speaker 3: each of us. The way we respond, the way we think,

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Speaker 3: the way we articulate, will prove whether or not we're

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Speaker 3: actually at war with somebody or at.

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Speaker 2: Peace with them.

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Speaker 3: It was extremely in some cases actually quite confronting to

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Speaker 3: read it, as I was able to kind of look

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Speaker 3: at different relationships in my life and see where at

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Speaker 3: times I have felt at war but have felt justified

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Speaker 3: in my response and therefore seen it as someone else's problem,

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Speaker 3: not mine. So that was really really confronting to actually

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Speaker 3: sit back and look, I guess, look at myself.

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Speaker 2: It's a book that changes you.

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Speaker 3: It really is a book for anyone who wants to

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Speaker 3: understand themselves more and to have greater peace in their lives.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I love it. The Anatomy of Peace by the arb

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Speaker 2: And Institute. How many stars are you giving that one?

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Speaker 3: That was a five?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, see, look at you handing out five star reviews

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Speaker 2: as well. What's in your heart? Are you at war

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Speaker 2: with someone or are you at peace with them? That's

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Speaker 2: really what it comes down to. And it's such a

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Speaker 2: great parenting book. That's it.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's not a parenting book, but in every

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Speaker 3: relationship in your life, you can see how these I

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Speaker 3: guess principles and values play out. And so you know

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Speaker 3: when you when you look at your children and the

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Speaker 3: way you respond to them, are you at war with

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Speaker 3: them or are you at peace? You know they're just

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Speaker 3: trying to destroy your world or are they little human

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Speaker 3: beings who are trying to work it all out.

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Speaker 2: I've got to dive in with the last one really quickly, No,

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Speaker 2: you're not. Jennifer Trag has written a book, Is Your

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Speaker 2: Heart at Peace with Me? Right now?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 2: Jennifer Traig has written a book called Act Act Natural,

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Speaker 2: a cultural history of misadventures in parenting. And I think, Kylie,

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Speaker 2: that this might just be my book of the year.

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Speaker 2: So I'm obviously going to give it five stars. We

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Speaker 2: haven't even started the review, but I think this might

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Speaker 2: be my book of the year. I've picked some crackers,

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Speaker 2: and I loved this book. I reckon. Jennifer Trag probably

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Speaker 2: spent approximately forever, maybe a little bit longer than forever,

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Speaker 2: researching the history of how people have been raising or

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Speaker 2: unfortunately this is going to sound really more good or

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Speaker 2: killing their children for the past couple of thousand years.

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Speaker 2: The work that has gone into this book is simply extraordinary.

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Speaker 2: She is a historian, and it shows. It's inspired me

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Speaker 2: so much. She writes with this really sassy, really fun tone,

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Speaker 2: sometimes a little bit too much SaaS if I was

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Speaker 2: going to say anything maybe four point nine out of

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Speaker 2: five and staid because but it's always so much fun,

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Speaker 2: and she's self deprecating, and it just it's delightful. Surprises

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Speaker 2: on every single page stories about swaddling children and how

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Speaker 2: crawling was forbidden, and why the term parenting didn't exist

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Speaker 2: until the nineteen fifties, and things like how little parents

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Speaker 2: actually parented until the last one hundred and fifty years,

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Speaker 2: wet nurses the way that people lived, why toilet training

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Speaker 2: didn't exist, how fussy eating only came to be a

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Speaker 2: thing in the last one hundred years or so, and

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Speaker 2: the extraordinary characters who have written books that have ultimately

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Speaker 2: informed the way that we parent, like Jean Jacques Rousseau,

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Speaker 2: the Frenchman who never actually wrote about parenting but is

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Speaker 2: one of the most influential parenting experts, despite leaving his

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Speaker 2: five kids at the orphanage so that he could concentrate

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Speaker 2: on writing his novels, which ended up becoming parenting tomes.

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Speaker 2: This book is one that go on about forever and

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Speaker 2: ever and ever.

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Speaker 3: I Love I'm Not Letting You go On and Awesome.

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Speaker 2: Act Natural A Cultural History of Misadventures in Parenting by

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Speaker 2: Jennifer Trague five stars. I love the book. We're going

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Speaker 2: to link to all five of these books in the

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Speaker 2: podcast show notes. Good luck keeping up with us, but

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Speaker 2: please hire them, borrow them, buy them, do whatever it

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Speaker 2: is to support authors who are writing books that are

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Speaker 2: worth reading. Those five books again, Malibu Rising by Taylor Jenkins,

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Speaker 2: Read that was the novel, Mamma Rising by Amy Taylor, Keabaz,

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Speaker 2: The Art of Insubordination by Todd Kashton, and Act Natural,

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Speaker 2: A Cultural History of Misadventures in Parenting by Jennifer trag Kylie.

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Speaker 2: I can't wait to hear what you've read next month.

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Speaker 2: The pressure's on now. The Happy Family's podcast is produced

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Speaker 2: by Justin Norland from Bridge Media, and Craig Bruce is

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Speaker 2: our executive producer. If you'd like Mari and fo about

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Speaker 2: the stuff we talked about, check the show notes for

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Speaker 2: today's podcast, or to find out how you can make

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Speaker 2: your family happier. We would love for you to visit

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Speaker 2: us at Happy families dot com dot a