1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: One, You've got to be on top of the subject 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: matter and as much of the background as you can 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: as well. You know, you might speak to other people 4 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: who know them beforehand, and then you've got to work 5 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: out what do we think the story is now? I 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: think the story is either going to be this or this. 7 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: I think they're in a bit of trouble here, or 8 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: they're surely they're going to have to be doing something 9 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: about that problem there, or isn't this their big opportunity 10 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: to go out and do this? Or didn't we see 11 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: them having lunch the other day with somebody else? And 12 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,279 Speaker 1: what are those two people up to? So you've got 13 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: to think about what might be the stories be. That's 14 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: your thesis, so that'll be your line of questioning, and 15 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: then you pursue that. 16 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 17 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 18 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amata Imba. I'm an 19 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: organization or psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventing UM, 20 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 2: and I'm obsessed with finding ways to optimize my workday. 21 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 2: My guest today is Michael Stutchbury Michael or stutch as 22 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: he is known as has been writing and editing on business, 23 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 2: economics and politics for national newspapers in Australia for the 24 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: past three decades, having worked out of Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra 25 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 2: and even Washington, DC. 26 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 3: Since October twenty. 27 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 2: Eleven, he has been the editor in chief of the 28 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 2: Australian Financial Review. So Statch is basically the guy that 29 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 2: sits at the top of the most powerful business newspaper 30 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 2: in Australia. My firm Inventium has had a long relationship 31 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 2: with the Australian Financial Review, having run the AFI Most 32 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 2: Innovative Company's List for the past eight years now, which 33 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: compiles a list of the one hundred most innovative companies 34 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: across Australia and New Zealand. So I was very keen 35 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: to chat to Starch about what goes on behind the 36 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 2: scenes in his world, what his go to news sources are, 37 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: and his approach to interviews because he's done the hundreds, 38 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: if not thousands of them the course of his career, 39 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: and we even have a chat about where his best 40 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: ideas come from. So on that note, over distatched to 41 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 2: hear about how he works. 42 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 3: Michael, Welcome to the show. 43 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: Thanks Samantha, I want. 44 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 2: To start with understanding what does a typical day, all 45 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: week look like in the life of the editor in 46 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: Cheap of the AFR. 47 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: Well, it's all about the news cycle. You're locked in 48 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: every day to things that are happening in your world 49 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: and in your publication and for your audience and for 50 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: your newsroom, and so you need to be the person 51 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: that leads that effort. And every day and every week 52 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: and every month is part of a longer story which 53 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 1: ends up being a bit of a framework for how 54 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: you think about things and the news and the information 55 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:58,239 Speaker 1: that the target audience you have wants and in the 56 00:02:58,320 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: end is prepared to pay for. 57 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,959 Speaker 3: So paint a picture of a day in the life. 58 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: Well, you wake up and I'm not as early as 59 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: some people could be trying to lose a little bit 60 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 1: of weight, so I try to get to gym a 61 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: few times a week, which which already puts stress on 62 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: the whole thing, because I find when I've had periods 63 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 1: doing these what I call the big job, you don't 64 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: have time for a lot of other things because it 65 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: really consumes you most of the time. So a challenge 66 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 1: is trying to now get a little bit of other 67 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: things to keep on top of your weight, for example, 68 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: and your health. So I try to do a little 69 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: bit of that. First thing you do is when you 70 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: wake up, you go to your iPhone and you see 71 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: what's on the go. And I typically go to see, 72 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: we've got a morning email that comes out before the belt, 73 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: which is our morning newsletter to subscribers. So I want 74 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: to see what that's like. I want to see what 75 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: our website's like. I want to see what's been happening, 76 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: particularly in offshore markets. You know, what has Donald Trump said? Now, 77 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: what's the Dow done? Now, what's happening with Brexit? That 78 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: I might want to see? Is there anything going on 79 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: with with what my competitors have done? And I'll try 80 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: to have a quick squizz of what's in all the 81 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: papers and read it. But it's quite time consuming getting 82 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: your head across. And there's four of them that I 83 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: get every morning, So you want to see I still 84 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: want to see the printed version. 85 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to unpack that morning. So I'm curious 86 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 2: with what you're doing on your phone. First thing, what 87 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 2: are the sites that you're going to aside from the 88 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 2: financial review and looking at the first E newsletter that's 89 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: coming out to subscribe, as what are the other sites 90 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 2: that you're looking at? 91 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: So I don't go off hunting the rest of the 92 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: world's online media. First thing in the morning, I want 93 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: to get on top of what we're doing. And I 94 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: might say I might look at and think, look, that 95 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: headline's not quite right, and I can be a little 96 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: bit annoyingly hands on, so I might say, all that 97 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: story should be the lead to the site, not the 98 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: story we've got there. So I might do that. Try 99 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: to do that too much, because if you stick your 100 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 1: fingers in the machinery, you can cause a bit of problem. 101 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: But I will sort of want to be on the 102 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: go to think, yeah, what is the main thing we 103 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: should be on about, And I'll be wanting our site, 104 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: our online site, to reflect that first thing in the morning. 105 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 3: How are you making that decision? 106 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 1: Like? 107 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 3: Is that just instinctial? 108 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 2: Now? What is going on in your head when you're like, 109 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: hang on. 110 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 3: That should be the lead? 111 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: Yeah? It is. I think there's a lot of instinct. 112 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: There's a lot of craft. This is a craft based thing. 113 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: The news a journalist, the news editor. There's a lot 114 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: of craft that gets built up and technique that gets 115 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: built up around it, So you might have just going 116 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: back in those other things that are going back on 117 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: the split screens that are all make up your brain. 118 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: There will be things going a drumbet. I think that's 119 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: an important thing. I think that's an important thing. I 120 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: think that's an important thing. I don't think that's quite important. 121 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: Or I'm making a tactical decision. No, I'll leave it 122 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: because maybe my competitor might do that better. Maybe I 123 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: want to try and challenge my competitor on that. Maybe 124 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: I think no, no, I'll challenge by doing something better 125 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: in my own turf, which you'll be stronger. Or you 126 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 1: might say, well, actually, I think we really need to 127 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: go with the news, the hard news. So this week, 128 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: the week we're talking now, is very much a trade war, 129 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: currency war week, and it's almost like every day is 130 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: a different installment in an ongoing story, and they're all 131 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: piled up closely. It started the week with defense and 132 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: security talks between Australia and the US that set a 133 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: certain tone. So you're wanting to think about what's the 134 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: framework on which all these news developments take place. 135 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: So you're kind of working on that weekly cycle almost thematically. 136 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: I guess there is a daily cycle, and there is 137 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: a weekly cycle, and there's an overall cycle of some 138 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: stories you know that are going to run for quite 139 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: a while, and they'll go off the ball, they'll come 140 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: back again, they'll go off the ball, they'll come back again. 141 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,799 Speaker 1: But you want to have in your head a frame 142 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: work it for how you interpret them and how the 143 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: news developments fit into it. 144 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 2: You I mentioned that you get four papers delivered every day. 145 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 2: What four papers are they get? 146 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: The Financial Review, the Sidney Morning Herald, the Austrayan and 147 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: the Daily Telegraph. So that's the National General more Generalist Competitor, 148 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: the Sydney Former, Sydney Broadsheet and the Sydney Tabloid. 149 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 3: Okay, and then are you how are you consuming those papers? 150 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: I very much want to see why they've got on 151 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: their front pages. I want to check or see if 152 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: they've got anything special that we really need to follow, 153 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: because buried away in them there might be things that 154 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: why haven't we got that? I want to see then 155 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: how they intellectualize if I can't if I can use 156 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,679 Speaker 1: that big word stories, including in their op ed area, 157 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: how are they analyzing things? I might want to see 158 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: what some of their top commentators are saying, you know that, 159 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: is that how we should couch it. So you just 160 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: want to be on top of it, and particularly look 161 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: for little special things. It might be in one of 162 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: their gossip columns, you know where, And so you learn 163 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: to know the terrain of these publications. And I'm a 164 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: bit of a old print guy in the working in 165 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: what is now a digital growth world, and part of 166 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: my job is to make that transition. But sometimes the 167 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: print daily thing gives you the quickest way, I think, 168 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: to get an overview, and digital serves some other purpose 169 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: that keeps you up to date, really up to speed 170 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: about the latest, the very latest that's going on. 171 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 2: And how long are you spending on those four papers? 172 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: Like is this an hour over breakfast? Is this a 173 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 2: quick flick through? 174 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: Like it varies depending on whether I've got a morning 175 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: meeting early, I've got to get in, when I've got 176 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: my gym appointment, where's But I should really spend up 177 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: to half an hour on that, And then I basically 178 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: listen to the news radio. Basically I try to listen 179 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: to AM on the ABC on the way in. That's 180 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: a good, that's a good In Australia, that's a good 181 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: town square program, which you don't get in a lot 182 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: of other countries, don't get in the US as much. 183 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: You know, one town square meeting in news and current 184 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: affairs every morning, which they do a pretty good job. 185 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 1: I think'll bring that to speed and you might want 186 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: to listen to the news radio just to get the latest. 187 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: What is the rhythm? What is the news cycle of 188 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: the day, So your. 189 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 2: Head by the time you get to the office is 190 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 2: basically consumed with all the news that's going on. Yeah, 191 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 2: what happens when you get to the office. 192 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: In the office, we've got a Now the world's changed 193 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: a lot. We've got an eight thirty am news conference. 194 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: Now that's extraordinary early by the times of the old 195 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: morning newspapers where it would be more like ten ten thirty. 196 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: So you know, old guy's got to adapt to that. 197 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: And the newsroom should have a sense of what is 198 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: the agenda on the day. And so we go into 199 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: a news conference lasts for about half an hour where 200 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: the news director and the online team and the various 201 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: section heads such as companies, national property, canbra might weigh 202 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: in saying what's on the go, what's our agenda for today? 203 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: And we go through it all, and then we might 204 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: have a quick discussion and then I might have some 205 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: things in my head, and the editor Paul Bailey will 206 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 1: have some things in his head about things we want 207 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: to think we should go on the day. Ideally, it's 208 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: all they're wrapped up, ready to go, and off we go. 209 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,239 Speaker 3: How are you making decisions? 210 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 2: Like if I was a fly on the wall in 211 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: that daily meeting, what would I be seeing? 212 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: Well, you'd be seeing people saying And it's as much 213 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: as possible the reporters should be feeding up through their 214 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: section editors about what stories they're following and what things 215 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: are on. And sometimes it might be there's a lunch 216 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: on and Joe Blow important Joe Blow personnevoless might be 217 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: speaking at it. Sure there's a lunch someone speaking at it. 218 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: But what's the story there out of it all? Which 219 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: way might this go? 220 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 2: So you'll be thinking about that, like in the theory 221 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 2: for those sort of events before you've even set foot. 222 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 3: On the event. 223 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, and that you know, you just don't want 224 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: to go along and be like, you know, a monkey 225 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: and transcribe what someone says. You want to have a 226 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: plan for you know, if it's been a big day, 227 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: and you know, a royal commission and a banking's just landed, 228 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: and you're going along to to a bank chief of 229 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: speaking at lunch. You might have some particular questions you 230 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: might want to ask, or you might have decided there's 231 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 1: some big issue you want you want to ask all 232 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: the chief executives you can find today about, So you 233 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:24,719 Speaker 1: might go out and decide to ask them all the 234 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: same question. 235 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 3: What else would we say in that meeting. 236 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: Well, about half an hour we'd go through it all. 237 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: We'd quickly have our sketch out our plan of which 238 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 1: may sometimes it's quite well formed, other times it's a 239 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: little bit, Hey, we need to do a bit of 240 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: work here as well. You've got to have in your mind, well, 241 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: there is a newspaper the next day, and we want 242 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: to have a splash to the newspaper, and what's going 243 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: to be the picture, and what's going to be the 244 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: do up, what's going to be the main thing. And 245 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: so you're working with both an online and a print 246 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: thing going at the same time, you in your head 247 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: of the news room sort of having to navigate both 248 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: those things. 249 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, what happens after that meeting for you, like what 250 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: would typically occupy a day. 251 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: Well, then then I might go back and quickly look 252 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: at you whatever emails have come in, and answer any emails. 253 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 3: And on that. What's your approach to emails? You're an 254 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 3: inbox zero person. 255 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 2: You generally just trying to delete as much as possible, 256 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 2: just reply to the critical ones. 257 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 3: What does that look like. 258 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: I've got forty three thousand emails stored up in my 259 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: forty three totally totally impossible to manage. So it's a 260 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 1: bit of a deluge. And so the trick the trap 261 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: is you miss something important and all that, but you're 262 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: constantly bombarded with this sort of thing, this sort of thing. 263 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 3: So how are you managing that? 264 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, very very difficult. So you get on top, 265 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: so you might there might be some obvious things and 266 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: you know that you've got you've got to answer that 267 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 1: or deal with that. And then often it's into after that, 268 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 1: it's into various meetings really of various projects we've got 269 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: on the go about all sorts of things to do 270 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: with running the enterprise. 271 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, sounds like you've got a lot of meetings that 272 00:12:58,440 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 2: you'd have during the week. 273 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 3: Do you do you do you have an. 274 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 2: Approach or philosophy around meetings and getting the most out 275 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 2: of them or making them as efficient as possible or productive. 276 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: It's a bit of a plague, the meeting plague, and 277 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: so you do want to keep it as you don't 278 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: want it to have We're going to go sit here 279 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: for an hour no matter what. So you do want 280 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: to as much as possible get to the point and 281 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: decide what you're going to do newspaper though, there's so 282 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: much going on every day. If you've got a group 283 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: of people in the room, they can just go on 284 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: all day on various other things that need to be 285 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: attended to. And there is a certain amount of a 286 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: certain amount of madness. This is a bit of a 287 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: creative process which is a little bit on the mad side, 288 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: just between you and me. So there is a little 289 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: bit of madness. So you've got to have some order 290 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: to it, but allow the madness to happen and just 291 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: be on top of things and ride the thing every 292 00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: day and every week. 293 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 3: Like it sounds frenetic. 294 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 2: It sounds like there's so much stimulus going into your brain. 295 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 3: How do you balance that? 296 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 2: You know that, I guess that that frenetic pace that 297 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 2: you're moving at literally every day, and I guess, like, 298 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 2: is there downtime in your life? 299 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 3: What does that look like? 300 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: There's not a real lot of downtime. No, there's I 301 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: tend to like, I don't come in sometimes I phone 302 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: into the eight thirty meeting as well in the morning, 303 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: so I don't I'm not here at seven am. I'm 304 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: not some banker. It gets in at seven am. And 305 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: these days deadlines for us aren't as late as they 306 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: used to be, Like in the old days they'd be 307 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: nine ten to eleven PM. Now ours are more like 308 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: seven point thirty. So it's a little bit more like 309 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: I say, I feel a bit like a civilian these days. 310 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: You know, it's a bit weird, but there is. But 311 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: you go every day from go to wore, pretty much 312 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: go to woe, think about the whole time. Saturday, Well, 313 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: Saturday you've got to regroup and you know, we've got 314 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: to read all the papers and read everything. And then Sunday. 315 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: I tend to come to a half day on Sunday. 316 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: I tend to come in on lunchtimes at lunchtime on 317 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: Sundays as well. And that's I think should be the 318 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: responsibility of ed or in chief to do that. So 319 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: it is pretty much sort of full on. 320 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. Wow. 321 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 2: What's the most stressful part about. 322 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 3: What you do? 323 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the most the sort of there is 324 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: a lot of I think you can manage a lot 325 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: of it, and a lot of it just comes with 326 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: the territory. And often you say, well, look, no one's 327 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: died in all of this. You know, people get worked up. 328 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: A lot of people get worked up. There'll be stuff 329 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: ups along the way, You'll annoy a lot of people, 330 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: There'll be people threatening with your lawsuits. But that's part 331 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: of the whole game. So you've got to that's going 332 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: to happen, So don't get too worked up about everything. 333 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: And no one's died. These are serious things, though, so 334 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: you've got to give them due consideration and treat it 335 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: all seriously. Probably the hardest thing, I think is the 336 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: managing the people and that it is a pressure cooker. 337 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: There are people who are generally highly motivated and they're 338 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: personally competitive competitive you hopefully at the same time, you 339 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: have a newsroom where the newsroom, the newsroom is very important. 340 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: The newsroom is what makes it all work, and there's 341 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: an art of the newsroom. It should also be a 342 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: bit collegiate. The newsroom should have its wins. The newsroom 343 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: should help each other out. The newsroom should be a thing, 344 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: and it's managing those people. And I think compared sometimes 345 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: I think about when I started, there wasn't a lot 346 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: of newsroom management of people, very little. In fact, it 347 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: was very much oh yeah, if you go and you 348 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: didn't really get much praise for anything, or it was 349 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: a different world then and now I think you do 350 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: have to manage individual people a bit more. And you know, 351 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: because people are people, know, they're all a little bit different. 352 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: There's a lot of common themes that go through and 353 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: different types, I suppose, but I think, as much as possible, 354 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: a bit more off I think of what I should 355 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: do more of, I'd say, you know, maybe a bit 356 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: more on the staff. 357 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 2: I want to move to interviewing because I imagine you 358 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 2: would have conducted hundreds thousands of interviews in your time 359 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 2: working within media, and I want to delve into I 360 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 2: guess how you're thinking about interviews. I guess the first 361 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 2: thing with an interview is preparation. So what does that 362 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 2: look like when you're preparing to, say, interview a chief 363 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 2: executive or a political leader. 364 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: What does that look like, well, I think you're right on. 365 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: You've got to do your homework and you've got to 366 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: know basically who are they and where have they come from? 367 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: So you've got to get a bit of an understanding 368 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: of how do they get to be in this position? 369 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: They're an important position? How do they get to be that? 370 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: And what are they trying to do? What have they achieved, 371 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: what are their highs, what are their lows? And then 372 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: what is the position from all of that, What is 373 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: the position they're in right now and what are they 374 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 1: trying to achieve and what are the challenges they face? 375 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: And then from that you want to get to get 376 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: to the essence of that. You want to find out 377 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: some information. You want to find out some news. You 378 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: want to find out something new about them. You want 379 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: to find out things about them or things they're doing 380 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: now that other people don't know about. 381 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 3: And how do you find that out? 382 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: One you've got to be on top of the subject 383 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: matter and as much of the background as you can 384 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 1: as well. You know, you might speak to other people 385 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: who know them beforehand, and then you've got to work 386 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 1: out what do we think the story is now? I 387 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 1: think the story is either going to be this or this, 388 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,199 Speaker 1: I think they're in a bit of trouble here, or 389 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: they're surely they're going to have to be doing something 390 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: about that problem there, or isn't this their big opportunity 391 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: to go out and do this? Or didn't we see 392 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 1: them having lunch the other day with somebody else? And 393 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: what are those two people up to? So you've got 394 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: to think about, you know what it might be the 395 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: stories be. That's your thesis, So that'll be your line 396 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 1: of questioning, and then you pursue that. Now it may work, 397 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: it may not, or something completely different might come out. 398 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 1: They might have their own story they want to give. 399 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: They want to if they are a good being interviewed, 400 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: they should have their own idea about I think the 401 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: headline should be this, and this is the story I 402 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: want to give out, You know they should. 403 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 3: I want to come to that because it's interesting. 404 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 2: So it sounds like you'll always go into an interview 405 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 2: with several hypotheses around what the potential angles or angle 406 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 2: could be. Is that fair to say, as opposed to 407 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 2: ever going in just with a blank slate. 408 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think you want to go on with 409 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: a blank slate. I think you know, you want to 410 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: have just some thoughts and they're a thesis to be 411 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: proven or knocked down, but you want to have, you know, 412 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: what is what's the story at the moment? 413 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 2: Definitely, Yeah, when you first sit down with them, and 414 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 2: let's say it's someone you've never met before, what are 415 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 2: you doing to build reports so they're going to feel 416 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 2: comfortable sharing Well, I think. 417 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: You do want to make a bit of a personal 418 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: contact in some way to where's your common ground or 419 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: what's the interesting thing that they've done in their life, 420 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: Like they might have started a new job in Australia 421 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: and they might have been an Australian who've been away 422 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: for a while. They've got this new job and they've 423 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: just come back here and you know, it's just common 424 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: human interaction. You know, how's it all going, how's the know, 425 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: how's it been bringing the husband back here? Your French 426 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: husband back here? To any where a you're living? You're 427 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: living in Mosman and you've a nice house there, and 428 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: where are bringing the kids into school? Just a normal 429 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: basic on that score, and then that might extend to 430 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: the work situation. How do you find you know, you've 431 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: come back to Australia, how do you find it now. 432 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: It must be a bit you might have noticed this 433 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,199 Speaker 1: weird thing we've got going on now, or is it 434 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: really just such a relief to come back to such 435 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: a blessed country or something like that. 436 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 2: How I guess do you feel like you've become a 437 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 2: better interviewer? 438 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: Like? 439 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 2: What are the things that you've learned along the way 440 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 2: that you now deliberately do. 441 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: Look, I wouldn't ass to say I'm a great interviewer, 442 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: per se. I think experience is a very big thing 443 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: as a journalist. When you start out. One of the 444 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: striking things is that you're young and inexperienced, but you 445 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,719 Speaker 1: deal with people in very important positions of power right 446 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 1: from an early age, and at first you've been quite 447 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: in awe of them, and you know, quite a big 448 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: thing to be a young person interviewing and talking to 449 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: people who are quite substantial and positions of power and 450 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: authority and great achievement. As you get older, you know, 451 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: you see you go through a few cycles CEOs of 452 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: various companies, treasurers, and so you get to see a 453 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: few of them and you get a bit more of 454 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: an understanding that these people who are at the beginning 455 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 1: of your career, you've been a bit of awe and 456 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,479 Speaker 1: you think, how do they do that? You realize as 457 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: you go on, are all people. They're all people with 458 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: their own strengths, their own foibles, their own insecurities and 459 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: things that they're there at the top. Well some of 460 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: them will be a little bit lonely at the top. 461 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: Stuff at the top, And so you get to understand 462 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: I think the nature of people in authority and running things. 463 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 2: Do you find yourself getting nervous like before big interviews 464 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 2: or before like you know, you speak at a lot 465 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 2: of events and on panels and so forth, Like do 466 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 2: you get nervous before those events still? 467 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 3: Or like, what's what's kind of going on for you? 468 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: I think you get maybe just a little bit of 469 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: a little bit of stage jitters, but not a lot. 470 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: I think I'm fortunate in the you know, I'm in 471 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: a good position professionally in that people might want to 472 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: hear from the other in chief of the financial view, 473 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: I'm blessed really to be with a with a publication 474 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: which has such credibility and prestige in our market and 475 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: generally in public speaking, people want you to do well, 476 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: you know, they want to laugh along with you. They 477 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: want to hear stuff from you. They're sitting in a 478 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: bit of anticticipation, buy in large they want to do. 479 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: So I think you've just got to you go with 480 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: that and you work out what you're going to say 481 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 1: like and you think of you try and think about 482 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: if it might be opening one of our conferences on 483 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: a particular area beforehand, you want to think about, well, 484 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: in that area, it might be we did an innovation summit, 485 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: or we do an infrastructure or banking and wealth something 486 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: like this. What are all the stories that we've been 487 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 1: doing in this area, how do they all come together 488 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: at this point in time. We did an innovation summit 489 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 1: one working day after the A Triple C's inquiry into 490 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: the platform tech giants, so we had a lot to 491 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: talk about and so you can pull that together in 492 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 1: a way, tell a little story about how the financial 493 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 1: viewers covered something, how it interprets these stories, What are 494 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: the important things and who are the very important people 495 00:23:58,080 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: we've got about to come onto the stage and tell 496 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: us about at it and to be questioned about it. 497 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 2: I want to ask about social media because I saw 498 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 2: that you've got Twitter and LinkedIn accounts that have been 499 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 2: inactive it seems for several years. Yet being in the news, 500 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 2: I mean, you need to be all over social media. 501 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 2: So I'm curious what's your approach to your own social 502 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 2: media or your view on that. 503 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: Personally, I don't do a lot of social media. There's 504 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: a lot too, Like just to read the Financial Review 505 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: every day takes you from go to woe. Takes well 506 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: over an hour to read everything in there, and the 507 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: editor in chief of the Financial View should read everything 508 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: in the publication. So I'm not sort of on social 509 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: media all day or much at all. 510 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 2: You know. 511 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: I do a little bit of LinkedIn with some people, 512 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: but if people want to link in with you, you know, 513 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: some sort of thing, what happens now that we've all 514 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: linked in. I'm not looking for another job, so I'm 515 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 1: not sort of trying to do that. I'm not on 516 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: those Twitter feeds out there. I'm not going to sort 517 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: of get in the Twitter world and have some you know, 518 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: punch up with somebody on Twitter. You know, I can't 519 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: think of anything less useful than doing that, quite frankly, 520 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: you know, and you can get I think you do 521 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: have to be in the substance of the thing, and 522 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: you know, we read the main newspapers if you like 523 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 1: that you're looking at during the day. During the day, 524 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: I go to look at the websites of those sort 525 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: of newspapers, the Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, 526 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: maybe the Economist. I go to the traditional news brands 527 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: to get my InformATE. Sometimes I might do a search 528 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: on something, you know, on what's going on here, and 529 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: that'll take me off into other areas, and that might 530 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: be fine for a while, but is my general thing. 531 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: I'm looking at the traditional mastheads as they manifest in 532 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: the modern world. 533 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 3: And where do your best ideas come to you? 534 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: When? 535 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 3: Or where? 536 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: In the shower? Yeah, very long shower might be different. 537 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: You know, you might pick up all from all over 538 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: the place, something someone said to you at lunch, like 539 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 1: lunch just over someone and I've got a few really 540 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: good ideas about something which might percolate around. It might 541 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: be a story, probably won't be for story for tomorrow, 542 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: but it will be almost like a framework to think 543 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: about the nature of capital formation in Australia. Just was 544 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: a different way of looking at it, and so that 545 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: might and I might test it out with some of 546 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: some of my top riders here and other people I 547 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: see and to see if that sort of all forms, 548 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: or it might be some little line in a column 549 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: that might be one of my riders did where they 550 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: just nailed. That's why the energy sector is energy system 551 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: is such a mess because of this. 552 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 2: I'm so struck by how much information needs to sit 553 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 2: in your head and that you need to be almost 554 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 2: like this semi expert in all the industries really that 555 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 2: occupy the Australian economy. Is that something you think consciously about, 556 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 2: like how you actually fit and retain all that information. 557 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 3: I'm quite struck by it. 558 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 1: Well, I think the skill set you know what you're 559 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 1: good as you say, you've got to know a little 560 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: bit about a lot of things, and then you've got 561 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: to have a thing that pulls it all together. Is 562 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: that you've got to have a sense of what is 563 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: the story? And it's not a story in a fessal sense, 564 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: but what are the intrinsic elements that are at play? 565 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: So the skill set is to work out what's the story, 566 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,239 Speaker 1: ask the questions quickly, get the answers, move on if 567 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: that answer doesn't work, and form what is the story quickly. 568 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: I think that's the skill set. 569 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 2: And that's a great note to end dogcause I think 570 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 2: we are just about out of time. 571 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 3: Michael or Stutch, what do I call it? 572 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: Stuch is good? 573 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 3: Stuch is good. Stutch. It's been great to sit down 574 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 3: and talk to you. Thank you so much for your time. 575 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: Thanks Amantha. 576 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 2: Hey there, that is it for today's show. If you 577 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 2: liked today's episode, you might want to leave a review 578 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 2: in Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast from 579 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 2: and hit the subscribe button if you don't already subscribe. 580 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 2: So that's it for today and I'll see you next 581 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 2: time