WEBVTT - A guide to using time wisely to find more of it ⏰ 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:07.080 I'm really looking forward to today's episode, everybody, and that 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:11.000 is because I've been on my own personal journey in 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:16.040 this space. So what I'm talking about is time management. 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.200 In my twenties, I was just a workaholic where it 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.000 was more and more and more, and I thought that 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.360 was the only way to achieve anything or get ahead, 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:29.360 and no matter what I was achieving, I was never 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:33.120 really satisfied. I was definitely burnt out. I definitely didn't 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:38.520 have any balance whatsoever in taking care of myself or 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.120 keeping in touch with my friends. It was all sort 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:44.240 of one way traffic and definitely not a healthy space. 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:47.680 Then I sort of shifted into this, no, I'm going 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.240 to have more of a balance. But I went through 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:54.080 this phase not that long ago where if I was 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.960 with my kids and I was thinking about work or 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:00.160 thinking I should be at work, I'd feel guilty, you know, 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.040 I wouldn't really be present about being with. 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:04.880 My kids, or if I was at work, I'd. 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:06.760 Be thinking that, no, this is these are these really 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.200 important years in my young kids' lives. So it's something 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:11.840 I've been working on a lot, and I'm definitely not 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:13.880 there and' a work in progress like we all are. 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:16.679 But it's not about me. But I know this is 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:19.679 something from hearing from all of you regularly that you 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.160 really struggle with finding the time to get your work 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:23.880 at it, and finding the time to do your shopping 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.160 for a good week of eating, finding the time to 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:29.800 have any downtime for yourself without the guilt or without 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.800 the stress. Today we are lucky enough to interview an 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.040 incredible lady who's an absolute expert in the time management, 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.000 based so much so that she's worked with companies like 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:41.840 Disney and Google and Apple. 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:44.200 She really is the bee's. 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.280 Knees when it comes to time management, and it doesn't 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.440 matter if it's trying to make your company more efficient 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:53.440 or make your individual life more efficient, more enjoyable, and 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.040 get the time in for your health. So I can't 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:56.680 wait for. 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:59.360 Us to all learn together. After that, we're going to 0:01:59.440 --> 0:01:59.960 change tactic. 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.360 We're going to go with our segment that you're all loving, 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:03.560 hate it, or rate it. 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:06.720 I'm currently training for a marathon and someone suggested that 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:07.960 I should get ankle weights. 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:09.160 Do you think they're worth it? 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:11.639 I've been using the sauna at my local pool a 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:15.440 fair bit this winter. Am I wasting my time and money? 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:17.640 Or is the sauna actually doing something for me. 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.680 I've recently been talking to a friend about her weight loss. 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.680 She's lost about twenty five kilos over the last year 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:28.079 or so. The products that they use, which is am Way, 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.400 I'm just wondering if you can rite it for me. 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:33.400 But now it's time to learn about time management. This 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:34.160 is a wood life. 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:55.720 Let's get into it now. 0:02:55.760 --> 0:03:01.960 I discovered our guest today by discovering her incredible podcast actually, 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:06.120 which is called the How I Work Podcast. We are 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.560 joined in the studio today by the incredible Amantha Imba. 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:12.120 Welcome to the Woodlife. 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:13.359 Thanks for having me. Sam. 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:14.480 I'm going to give you a little bit of a 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:19.600 rundown because you're the founder of behavioral science consultancy firm Inventium, 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:24.919 and this company works with Apple, Google. I mean, you're 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:26.720 not going to work with little companies like mine. Look 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.440 at all these big dogs that you're working with. You've 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.280 also authored the book, which is the new book called 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:38.000 time Wise, and you're an organizational psychologist. But what does 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.760 an organizational psychologist actually do well? 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:44.760 Ultimately, I think about how we can use our time 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:48.760 more wisely and more deliberately and get more done and 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.680 get more meaningful things done with the hours that we 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:53.920 all have in the day, which is exactly the same. 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:55.880 You know, this show is about how we can make 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:59.680 people's life better in general, but I also know from 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:02.200 being the fitness industry for twenty two years that the 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.480 biggest reason people say that they cannot work out is 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.560 they say they simply don't have time. So I know 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.040 you're going to help people when we chat today, both 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:14.320 in more general terms about how they can. 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:15.080 Improve their life. 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:17.560 But i'd love I'd love you to sort of start 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:22.760 with what's your advice from an exercise perspective to help 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.920 people make sure? In my world, it's only twenty eight 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.560 minutes a day, let's call it a half an hour 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:32.280 slot every day to move their body in some way. 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:34.320 What advice can you give to people to help them 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:35.120 find that time. 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:37.960 Well, a couple of things that I do myself personally, 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:41.120 but also I recommend to people that I speak to. 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:44.839 So firstly, with exercise, I book a meeting with myself 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:45.840 to exercise. 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:48.599 So my exercise. 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.440 Regime, I guess regime that makes it sound like I'm 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.320 under attack or something, But anyway, so what my exercise 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.000 schedule looks like is that I work out with the 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:01.280 trainer three times a week, five minute sessions, and then 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:03.400 I'll do one home workout forty five minutes. 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.000 And I booked them as meetings with myself. 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.800 And I know for me, I used to be a 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:13.000 first thing in the morning exerciser because it's just easier 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:15.599 to not procrastinate with yourself because you're still in a 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:17.680 bit of a sleep paze and you just drag yourself 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:19.960 to the gym and you do it. But I found 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.680 that I like breaking my work day up because I 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:26.360 do work from home. Now it's nice to kind of 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.200 go really hard with work for a few hours and 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.240 then have exercise. Is this really nice break in my day. 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:35.520 So it's a meeting with myself. And it's like if 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:37.479 you had a meeting in your diary with someone else, 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.560 you wouldn't not turn up to it because that's just rude. 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:42.840 And so I give myself the same respect. If I've 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.440 booked a meeting with myself to do something, whether that 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.400 be work on a certain project or exercise, I will 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:49.880 do that. I will stick to that and onnto that 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.120 commitment the other thing that I do. 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:53.160 And I got this. 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.240 Tip from Touria Pit when I interviewed her on how 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.880 I work, and she was noticing with her young son 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:04.040 hack of Eye, that she would be playing with him 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.800 and you know, doing something that she wasn't particularly into, 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.760 like playing with lego, and in her mind, you'd be like, oh, 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:12.320 I have to play with my son, or I have 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.520 to take him to the park, or I have to 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.159 you know, pat him to sleep or whatever. And when 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:21.560 you use that self talk, I have to and many 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:24.279 people use that about exercise. I have to exercise, I 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.000 have to go to the gym. It feels like a chore. 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.720 And Turia changed her self talk just by replacing one word, 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.359 so instead of saying I have to, she started saying 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:37.440 I get to, and it changes it from being a 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.880 chore to being a gift. And I remember I started 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:43.840 using that with my own exercise, because even though I 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:48.360 stick to my exercise program pretty religiously, there are definitely 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.960 days where I wake up and I'm like, oh my god, 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.640 I don't feel like exercising today, and it feels like 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:58.200 a chore. But I recently had this shoulder in injury 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:02.640 and you wasn't able to do proper upper body workouts 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.120 for a little while and had to get qurtizone injections 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:06.920 and it was all and I wasn't sure if I 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:09.520 was going to have to need surgery. And when I 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.240 found out that I didn't and the corterzone injections worked 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.480 well and I got back to upper body strength training, 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.640 it really hit home for me because now when I'm 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.320 doing a bench press or something like that, I get 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:22.440 to do a bench press. 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:24.480 I'm not having shoulder surgery. 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.040 My body is working perfectly well, and so I use 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:30.000 that all the time rather than thinking I have to 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:30.920 I get to. 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:34.360 I often say to people that exercise should be a 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:36.960 celebration of what your body can do, not a punishing 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:39.160 for what it can't or thinking about what it can't. 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:41.400 And I absolutely believe in that. And yeah, I think 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:45.080 sometimes when we have an injury, we we really are 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.120 understand and appreciate what we are capable of once we 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:50.000 get back on our feet, that's for sure. You mentioned 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.120 just then procrastination, and you said sometimes is good in 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:55.040 the morning because we almost don't have time to realize 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:58.240 we're procrastinating or wake up. But can you explain to 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.920 me and to everybody what procrastination is and if you've 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:06.520 got any little tips to not procrastinate, whether it's for 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:08.800 your workout, or whether it's for any other facet of 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:09.240 your life. 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:10.800 That's got to be helpful for people. 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:15.320 Absolutely, I don't know anyone that would say I never procrastinate. 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.760 Oh good, because I was I was thinking, I bet 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:19.280 you don't. 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:21.400 That's absolutely true. 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:25.640 But I think where people get procrastination kind of a 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:28.560 bit mixed up is that people go, I'm such a procrastinator. 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.720 They beat themselves up for it, They label themselves a procrastinator, 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:34.760 and they think that therefore they're bad at thinking about 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.480 how they use their time, or they're unproductive, and they 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:41.400 make these assumptions. But really what procrastination is, it's not 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:45.240 a time management problem. It's an emotion management problem because 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.280 we procrastinate from something because we're experiencing negative feelings, like 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.800 we might be feeling stress or resistance to do something 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.040 because it's just plain hard. 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.040 Work, you know, like exercise can be. 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.200 And so firstly recognize it as this is about you 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:04.959 managing your emotions. And often with procrastination, if we can 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:09.319 just push through that hump of negative emotions that we're experiencing, 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.560 we can often get through that urge to procrastinate. So 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.200 one great strategy that I heard that I love. It's 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.600 called the struggle timer. This comes from a guy called 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:20.760 Scott Young who wrote this amazing book called Ultra Learning 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.640 about how to learn things more quickly, and something he 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.920 does when he is feeling the urge to procrastinate and 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.920 is feeling that the stress or the bottom or whatever 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:34.520 negative emotion you're feeling that is the precursor to procrastinating 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:36.560 and not doing the thing that you should be doing, 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:38.800 is he will set a struggle timer, so it's just 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:40.960 a normal timer. I think he uses an egg timer 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.439 for about ten minutes, and he says to himself, I'm 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.280 going to push through this negative emotion just for ten 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:49.880 minutes until that struggle timer is done. And if I'm 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:53.480 still struggling and feeling the urge to do something else, 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.160 I'm going to give myself permission to take a break. 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.400 He's saying, start the task, start the time, start the. 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.839 Timer, and if at the end of the time, you're 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:04.240 still not wanting to do it, which I mean, I 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:06.160 love that, And I tell me with exos all the time, 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:07.600 just to five minutes, you'll never stop. 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:08.680 In fact, you'll always do more. 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.160 That's exactly right, and that's the theory because often if 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.400 you've pushed through something for ten minutes, yeah, you've got 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.560 into flow and you've pushed through that negative emotion, which 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:20.120 generally only lasts for a few minutes. It's a great strategy, 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:22.840 whether it's with exercise, whether it's with a hard task 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:25.240 at work, whether it's something in your personal life like 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.560 maybe getting through a whole lot of paperwork or bills 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:29.760 or something like that. Just at the time and for 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.360 ten minutes, call it your struggle timer, and then by 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:35.640 the time the sand has reached the bottom, you'll probably 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:36.920 be feeling all right to keep going. 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.160 I'm getting a struggle time on my desk and it's 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:42.720 going to get labeled and everything. I'm going to steal 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:44.000 that one. I absolutely love it. 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.959 I've spoken on this show before, man through about people 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:49.720 always so to me say how do you get this 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.640 work I'm drowning here or I'm struggling here, and how 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.640 do I get this work life balance sorted? And the 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.320 first thing I say to them is, I don't like, 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.360 please don't think I have work life balance sorted. 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:03.960 But it's this vogue term. 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.920 Now, what are your thoughts around work life balance and 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:10.760 what advice do you have to people? Out there that 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:14.440 are striving for this, you know, idealistic work life balance. 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.360 I don't love the term work life balance, despite the 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:22.480 fact that people use it yeah, because it implies that 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:27.000 we need to balance the horribleness of work with the 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.079 joy of life, and it's not necessarily like that. I 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.719 much prefer the idea of work life integration, where how 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:37.240 do you integrate your work life into your non work life, 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.760 but also vice versa, And the reality is a lot 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.240 of people do have a lot more flexibility now in 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.600 how they work, where they work, from the hours that 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.920 they work. Obviously not everyone does, but a larger proportion 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:52.640 of people do thanks to COVID, so there is more 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:57.920 flexibility to integrate things. I know, for me, I love 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.920 my work. It doesn't feel like a chore. It doesn't 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.400 feel like something I need to make sure I'm not 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:05.800 doing too much of. 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.480 But I also realize that that's quite rare. 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.240 So I think one place to look can be going, 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:15.079 do I actually like my job? I got this great 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:19.400 piece of advice from Adam Grant, who's an organizational psychologist 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:21.960 hots the Work Life podcast bit of a hero of mine, 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.840 and something he recommends is, you know, we go to 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.160 the doctor or the dentist for an annual checkup, or 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:28.840 maybe the dentist a couple of times a year. 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:30.560 And that's just kind of normal. We all do that. 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.760 But how often do we actually stop and give ourselves 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.600 a life checkup where we take a step back and go, 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:39.920 Am I in the right career? Do I like my job? 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:41.920 Do I like my co workers? Am I in an 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:45.599 organization where I really love the culture? And actually proactively 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:48.520 checking in with yourself rather than waiting for years to 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:53.200 pass and realizing that you've sunk all these years into 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.040 a career that is actually draining you of energy, and 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.240 where you do strive for work life balance because work 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:01.959 kind of sucks and life doesn't. But I think it's 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.840 also really good to do with health and fitness and 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.280 just with life in general. I know for me, because 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.240 I do think a lot about my health and fitness. 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:15.839 I've tried all sorts of different fitness workouts and genres 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.920 of exercise if you like, And so something I find 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:23.720 really helpful to do again with that six monthly timing 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.280 is to sit down and go. Is this exercise routine 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:32.359 still serving me? Is it still energizing me? Am I 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:36.040 excited to get up and do this particular type of workout. 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.439 I think it's really easy. 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.840 To just keep doing the same thing in life, whether 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:43.200 that be with regards to health and fitness, or with 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:47.440 regards to your relationship or the way you're parenting or 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:49.160 the way you're working, and. 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:50.520 Just get on autopilot. 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:52.959 So really that life check up is about going how 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:56.840 can I get off autopilot and really asking yourself, is 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:58.600 this thing still serving me? 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:03.000 What's not working? What is working? And what could I 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:04.400 change to make this better? 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.640 First of all, I love that concept. How often do 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:12.920 we put something off for years and then when we 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:15.560 do it within about three days, we think to ourself, 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.800 why did I do that sooner? Oh my god, why 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.640 was it building up in my head with such enormity? 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:23.280 And then when I. 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.640 Did it, it's like, oh yeah, I love that once 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.160 or twice a year, having a having a life check 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.280 up that we that we just don't do. And I 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.800 think for so many of us we're paralyzed by fear 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:36.320 and we know and. 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:36.840 It is scary. 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:39.360 You know, you should be fearful because it is scary. 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.200 It's you only get one life and you don't want 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:43.320 to stuff it up. But I think it's far worse 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.200 to go through life unhappy and feel like you're stuck 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:49.680 than not trying different things and trying to change tac. 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:50.200 That's for sure. 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.000 It reminds me of this great piece of advice I 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:58.280 heard from Phil Libbon, and he is the founder of 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:00.760 ev note I don't know if you use evnoe note taking. 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:02.480 When I had him on How I Work, he was 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.200 talking about decision making and he said, for him, one 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:08.560 of the game changing pieces of advice that he has 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.120 taken on board around decision making is, you know, we 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:15.600 spend so much time deliberating on these really seemingly hard 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:17.440 decisions like should I leave a job? 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:18.160 For example. 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:20.120 But he said, for him, what he thinks about whenever 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.600 he's faced with the hard decision is is this a 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:27.120 complicated or complex decision that requires a lot of thought 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.720 and has a lot of variables and so forth, or is. 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:31.440 This just an unpleasant decision? 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:36.000 And unpleasant decisions you know the answer, but you still 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.320 take so much time to get there because they're all 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.960 just under this hard decision umbrella, if you like, and 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:46.040 hard decisions presumably need lots of time to figure out. 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:48.920 But what Phil does now is he will recognize that 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.680 actually the majority of decisions that he makes are just 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.240 unpleasant decisions, so they don't actually warrant a lot of time. 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.520 They just need you to move through that unpleasantness and 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.280 make the decision. And often when we're thinking about things 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:04.000 like leaving a job that we hate or leaving a 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.800 relationship that is not serving us anymore, they're just unpleasant decisions, 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.320 but we actually know the right path to take, so 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.359 you don't actually need to spend as much time deliberating 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:13.680 on it. 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:15.880 That's ever though, which I have used, not with a 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:17.040 great deal of success. 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:19.000 I discovered it a few years ago. 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:20.640 I thought it was going to change my life, and 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.960 it didn't necessarily work for me. But I think it's 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:26.280 because I'm a bit more old school. I'm a list maker, 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:31.720 whiteboard guy. But what is your take on making lists? 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.880 So I love a good to do list, and I 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:38.520 mean in time wise. My new book, there are several 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:40.840 chapters dedicated to different ways. 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:41.800 Of doing it to do list. 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:45.560 But I actually think one of one of the best 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:47.440 pieces of advice I can give around it to do 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:49.080 list is that, I mean, the thing about it to 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:51.800 do list is that you're always adding to the list. 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.680 And you're never actually getting to the bottom of the 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:56.800 list because there's always more things to do. And I 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.760 think for most people that can feel really overwhelm. And 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.400 I think, you know, particularly you know myself as a parent. 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:05.360 You know, there's not only things to do for myself, 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:07.440 but there's things to do for my daughter as well. 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.080 It's quite demoralizing because you do fifteen things and still 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:12.200 feel like you've achieved nothing. 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.040 Yeah, yeare's still ten things left. 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:15.600 Absolutely absolutely so. 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:19.280 A strategy that I love, which comes from Rachel Botsman, 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.600 is she does something calleder to don't list. So every 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:26.359 month she sits down and she reflects on the month 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.119 that has just gone and she thinks about, what are 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:31.560 the things that I did that really drained me of 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:35.439 energy or that I just felt deflated from and she 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:37.320 puts that on her to don't list. 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.439 Like, for example, from. 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:41.720 Memory on Rachel's to don't list, she's got things like 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:45.840 I don't do meetings before eleven am, I don't check 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:49.000 my email first thing in the morning, I don't meet 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:54.439 with this person period, and so like from that, I 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:59.040 started creating my own to don't list ritual, where literally 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.679 every so the first Monday of every month. Between four 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.600 and five o'clock, I have a meeting with myself that 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.800 is my to don't list meeting where I sit down 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:09.960 and I reflect on the. 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:11.879 Month just gone. I'm like all of the things that 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:12.679 the energized me. 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:14.480 Like you know that there was a couple of months 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.080 ago where I love my friends. My friends are like 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.919 my family as an only child, friends of the family 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.040 that I choose, and so I take. 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:23.399 Friendships really seriously. 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:25.600 And you know, there was one friend that I would 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:27.600 catch up with every so often, and I just was 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.160 reflecting on that because I caught up with them recently. 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.800 I just thought, I'm leaving a lot of those catch 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.880 ups feeling quite exhausted, and you don't really want that 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:40.840 when you've caught up with a friend. And so that 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:44.200 made it onto my to doun't list, don't proactively reach 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.640 out to this person to catch up, which I had 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:47.160 been doing. 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:48.800 And you know, the. 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.399 Payoff had been feeling quite exhausted and deflated after I 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:54.760 catch up. So you know, it's not just something that's 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.520 good for work, but it's just good for life. Thinking 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.480 about what de energizes you in life and what do 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:01.320 you not want to do. 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:06.440 I call them energy vampires, and we have them in 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:08.800 all fasts our life, but every time we catch up 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:12.320 with them, you know you do you feel? You feel 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:16.320 physically and mentally exhausted. I think, first of all, I'm 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:18.240 going to read your book because there's obviously a lot 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.240 more to it from a practical advice perspective, and the 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:24.680 fact that you've got multiple chapters on writing lists intrigues. 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.320