Speaker 1: In October nineteen ninety seven, a law student in Canberra, Australia,
Speaker 1: made a plan to murder her devoted boyfriend after a
Speaker 1: dinner party. But it wasn't a secret. The dinner guests
Speaker 1: had all heard rumors about the plan and went along
Speaker 1: with morbid curiosity. But in what could be described as
Speaker 1: the ultimate bystander effect, nobody warned the young man.
Speaker 2: Surely they thought it was a Joe.
Speaker 1: Surely everybody knew but him. This is the devastating case
Speaker 1: of Joe chinque Oh.
Speaker 2: I know of this one, but I didn't know even already.
Speaker 1: All those Ah, well, you are going to need to
Speaker 1: strap yourself in kind of like oars sounded a bit
Speaker 1: like exactly. This case has affected me in more ways
Speaker 1: than I could have imagined. I picked up the book
Speaker 1: by Helen Ghana, Joe Chinkway's Consolation, after going to buy
Speaker 1: Helen Ghana's latest book on the mushroom cook Aaron Patterson,
Speaker 1: our favorite. This story is devastating and it's honestly a
Speaker 1: case that I cannot stop thinking about. I read the
Speaker 1: book quickly, I listened to anything I could, and I
Speaker 1: feel like my mind was pretty made up about how
Speaker 1: I felt about what happened. I'd love to hear your opinion, gee,
Speaker 1: and I'd also love to hear what listeners think.
Speaker 2: Nita tells the story first.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, you know you're right, You are right, Thank you.
Speaker 2: I usually have Okay.
Speaker 1: Joe was murdered. What I didn't expect to learn was
Speaker 1: how many complex feelings I had about the killer and
Speaker 1: the friend who helped her.
Speaker 2: Oh okay.
Speaker 1: In fact, it resonated with me on a personal level,
Speaker 1: with my own brother developing drug psychosis and completely changing
Speaker 1: as a brother I once loved and grew up with.
Speaker 1: I cannot recommend the book highly enough. As always, I
Speaker 1: commit my undying love for Helen Ghana and how she
Speaker 1: can find the human in people who were often deemed monsters.
Speaker 2: It's interesting to say that, because I mean, just that
Speaker 2: sentence itself, a lot of people would say, well, no,
Speaker 2: there's no human in here. Yeah. Yeah, roughly she writes,
Speaker 2: and how I suppose in depth she goes into her story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she looks at things in a really different way. Yeah.
Speaker 1: This is a story of a man's life who was
Speaker 1: taken too soon, far too soon, and a complex look
Speaker 1: into the lives and why from what we can glean
Speaker 1: the pair did it and why no one did anything
Speaker 1: to stop it?
Speaker 2: My God, tell me what happened?
Speaker 1: Well, g do you know a lot about this case already?
Speaker 2: Obviously I know that a girlfriend. I think it was
Speaker 2: like a murder, like a suicide.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, backed out.
Speaker 2: That's about all I remember.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well we'll go into it, and I really want
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts on it, yeah, because it's really
Speaker 1: fascinating and there's a lot. There's a lot in here.
Speaker 1: Joe Chinkwa was a twenty six year old engineer living
Speaker 1: with his girlfriend, a new sing in their Harra's house
Speaker 1: in Canberra.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember, I remember a news name.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there's an interesting part of this, but I
Speaker 1: think it's kind of glossed over when I read the
Speaker 1: transcript script of the call to the ambulance. I'd like
Speaker 1: you to keep in mind what kind of house they
Speaker 1: lived in. Joe was working full time and Anew was
Speaker 1: finishing her final year of law. Joe was killed.
Speaker 2: That's ironic, I know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, all the people that were at the dinner
Speaker 1: party were actually lawyers. Go back to be Joe was
Speaker 1: killed by a lethal injection of heroin while he was
Speaker 1: unconscious from rohypnol which she had drugged him with in
Speaker 1: his coffee. Oh my god, I'm going to refer to
Speaker 1: the book for a transcript of the call to the ambulance.
Speaker 1: This is what Helen Ghana writes as the opening to
Speaker 1: that transcript.
Speaker 2: He isn't even getting out his physical book, like I
Speaker 2: put a little post it notes, My god, you're so cute,
Speaker 2: just like my father. Why is there an apple on
Speaker 2: the cover.
Speaker 1: We'll get into it, into it well you hey, apple, ale? Okay,
Speaker 1: very good apple. The house he died in on Sunday
Speaker 1: twenty sixth of October nineteen ninety seven was not far
Speaker 1: from the Canberra Ambulance headquarters. Oh the paramedics would have
Speaker 1: been able to reach him in a flash, but it
Speaker 1: took the dispatcher almost twenty minutes to get to the
Speaker 1: right address from the hysterical young woman who placed the
Speaker 1: zero zero zero call, the triple zero call. Like all
Speaker 1: emergency calls, this one was recorded. This is the male dispatcher. Okay,
Speaker 1: and the phone number you're ringing from. Could I get
Speaker 1: an ambulance please? I have a person potentially overdosed on heroin.
Speaker 1: Potentially overdosed. Well, he's not. He's vomiting everywhere. Blood stuff.
Speaker 1: He's vomiting blood, right, Okay? What's the address? Is that
Speaker 1: a bad sign? What's the address? Can you hang on?
Speaker 1: Please just tell me? Is that a bad sign? That's well,
Speaker 1: it's not good if he's vomiting blood. Oh is he
Speaker 1: going to be? Okay? I don't know. I'll send an
Speaker 1: ambulance for them to check him out. Fair enough. What's
Speaker 1: the address? Thirty Antil Street? Is that a flat or
Speaker 1: a house? Oh? It's a flat? What number is Antil Street?
Speaker 1: What number in Antel Street? What's going to happen? What's
Speaker 1: the flat number? Oh? Shit, shit, listen to me, says
Speaker 1: a paramedic again. Oh hang on, what am I going
Speaker 1: to do? Settle down? Settle down? Okay? What am I
Speaker 1: going to do? Well? If you tell me the address,
Speaker 1: I'll get an ambulance out to you. Will he be? Okay?
Speaker 2: Oh this is so frustrating.
Speaker 1: I don't know. We'll have to get an ambulance to
Speaker 1: you to assess him. What is the number of the
Speaker 1: flat in Antel is is? Oh shit? What is the
Speaker 1: number of the flat in Antil Street? It's seventy nine,
Speaker 1: Flat thirty seventy nine. Is that correct? Yeah? No, hang
Speaker 1: on Flat thirty hang on? Where's the ambulance. The ambulance
Speaker 1: is at Dixon. Now just calm down. What's your name?
Speaker 1: What's your name? Oh shit, he's vomiting blood? What and
Speaker 1: the dispatcher again says what's your name? And who says
Speaker 1: is he going to die? What is your name? Tell me?
Speaker 1: Tell me? Please? Cries an. What is your name? Oh?
Speaker 1: Oh god, Olivia says an. Oh, what is your name? Please? Olivia? Olivia?
Speaker 1: Oh fuck? Hang on? Hang on? What's the number you're
Speaker 1: ringing from? Hang on? His heart's still beating. Good, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: just settle down, for God's sake, says a Dispatcher'd be
Speaker 1: pretty uncommon, you'd think, for a dispatcher to say that,
Speaker 1: Flat thirty seventy nine Antil Street.
Speaker 2: Okay, we've got there.
Speaker 1: Flat thirty seventy nine, No, seventy nine Antil Street. What's
Speaker 1: the flat number? It's a townhouse? What it's seventy nine
Speaker 1: in Antil Street? Yeah, yeah, get here quickly. All right,
Speaker 1: we've got someone there now. Now that was not the
Speaker 1: only call that was made that night, but it's a
Speaker 1: really interesting call. Because a new calls herself Olivia in
Speaker 1: that call nine of times, a number of times. And
Speaker 1: as we heard before, they lived in a townhouse.
Speaker 2: And it was her address.
Speaker 1: She lived there, she lived there, Yeah, yeah, which could
Speaker 1: be you know, she was like the cover up what happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, because the way that reads is as if
Speaker 2: she didn't really know if she was there for a
Speaker 2: dinner party, she didn't really know the address, so she
Speaker 2: was trying to find out what it was. And I mean, god,
Speaker 2: touch would I don't know what it's like to be
Speaker 2: in that situation where you're panicking and calling an ambulance.
Speaker 2: But I mean it's very easy to say from this
Speaker 2: point of view, but you would think you could just
Speaker 2: spit out the address if you knew it.
Speaker 1: You think you'd be able to Yeah, it was your
Speaker 1: own home. On June eleventh, nineteen seventy one, Joe was
Speaker 1: born to Nino and Maria Chinque in Newcastle, New South Wales.
Speaker 1: He was named after his grandfather, Giuseppe or Joe for short,
Speaker 1: A beautiful I love. Yeah. It was a way to
Speaker 1: carry on his heritage. They thought he was the most
Speaker 1: that's right, German heritage. They thought he was the most
Speaker 1: beautiful baby they'd ever seen, do you.
Speaker 2: I mean most parents say that. Mine did not about me.
Speaker 2: What my older sister Katie was the most beautiful baby
Speaker 2: anyone's ever seen. And then I came out and my
Speaker 2: mom was like, oh, she does not look.
Speaker 1: Like she does not look like Kaie.
Speaker 2: The reason my godmother is my godmother is because she
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, it's beautiful. And Mom was like, no,
Speaker 2: she's not an I don't like you can and we'll
Speaker 2: be listening to this too, actually, and I was like,
Speaker 2: yes she is, and Mama, well you can have.
Speaker 1: Joe's parents immigrated to Australia from Italy four years prior
Speaker 1: they knew it in now he said Germany. In nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy five, Nino and Maria welcomed their second boy, Anthony.
Speaker 1: With two boys, the house was bustling, often described as chaotic.
Speaker 1: It's my worst time, toys and games all over the floor,
Speaker 1: kind of like digs. I was living with digs. But
Speaker 1: Nino and Maria loved everything about it. They were happy
Speaker 1: to have their two boys. They lived in a red
Speaker 1: brick house in Newcastle. Newcastle is a harbor city in
Speaker 1: the Australian state of New South Wales. It's located one
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty two kilometers or one hundred and one
Speaker 1: miles from Sydney. Joe's mum was a housewife and his
Speaker 1: father worked as a tradesman. Joe saw that his dad.
Speaker 1: Joe saw what his dad had done for a living,
Speaker 1: and he ended up working at the same company that
Speaker 1: he and his grandfather and his father had all worked out.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, before they knew it. Joe and Anthony
Speaker 1: were young men, growing up all too soon for Maria's liking,
Speaker 1: but they would all all have family dinners every single
Speaker 1: night because they all stayed close by. Joe was a
Speaker 1: gifted athlete, playing tennis and soccer. There were trophies littered
Speaker 1: all around the family home. He also radiated confidence and energy.
Speaker 1: He was a great student and a fantastic friend, often
Speaker 1: the one to bury the hatchet in any quarrel and
Speaker 1: find a way to move on. So two friends were
Speaker 1: kind of finding he'd be the one to go to.
Speaker 1: He was extremely well liked by everyone who met him.
Speaker 1: You just couldn't help but be drawn to him. He
Speaker 1: wanted to study architecture, but also didn't want a career
Speaker 1: that would keep him inside all day strapped to the desk.
Speaker 1: So instead he decided to take up a career in
Speaker 1: civil engineering. Wow. In nineteen ninety four, at just twenty
Speaker 1: four years old, he graduated university. His parents had bought
Speaker 1: him a ticket overseas as a gift for graduating.
Speaker 2: Oh nice marine, nice one.
Speaker 1: He really wanted to go traveling before starting his working life,
Speaker 1: and time broke it off with his girlfriend, Rebecca, who
Speaker 1: everyone kind of thought he'd end up with.
Speaker 2: Oh god, that's not very nice, Like, see, I.
Speaker 1: Want to go. I know, yeah, I know. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you said it like that, but that's probably Yeah.
Speaker 1: After Joe died, Rebecca turned up to the family home
Speaker 1: and told Maria that she just wished Joe had loved
Speaker 1: her like she had loved him on that heartbreaking She
Speaker 1: bought flowers and told her that, oh my god. When
Speaker 1: he got back, he found a job at a civil
Speaker 1: engineering company as a project manager, which was close to
Speaker 1: his family in Newcastle.
Speaker 2: I want to get sorry. I wanted to look at
Speaker 2: what Joe looks like. I'd like to have a visual
Speaker 2: of him. Yeah, of course I actually know what a
Speaker 2: new sing looks like. But isn't that terrible I know
Speaker 2: what she looks like. And I've actually got in my
Speaker 2: notes the name a new sin for an episode to do.
Speaker 2: Oh really, not Joe's. Is that terrible? We always talk
Speaker 2: about how you know that shouldn't be the.
Speaker 1: Because yeah, yeah, Maria, Joe's mother said in Helen Ghana's
Speaker 1: book that Joe's father and grandfather had worked the same
Speaker 1: engineering company, like I said before, so it's a big
Speaker 1: over you know, International Corporation.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yeah, I'm looking at him. Yeah, yeah, they
Speaker 2: look very I mean, this is such a boring basic
Speaker 2: thing to say. They look like a couple in the nineties. Yeah, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: kind of mid to late twenties.
Speaker 1: A good looking couple.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he looks quite American.
Speaker 1: He does, doesn't he He's.
Speaker 2: Very like chies or jaw, a bit like.
Speaker 1: Like Italian American. Doesn't mean like, he's got a very
Speaker 1: Italian kind of face, boyish charm. If he didn't have
Speaker 1: enough to do, like you know, all week, he'd find
Speaker 1: he'd find himself really restless. Maria kind of noticed this
Speaker 1: with him from a young age. He would hang out
Speaker 1: with friends, go to the pub, or put in extra
Speaker 1: hours at work with his friends. He would regularly hang
Speaker 1: out at a local pub called the Brewery. That's when
Speaker 1: he met twenty two year old a new thing. She's
Speaker 1: only two, only twenty two at the time. Yeah. Anu
Speaker 1: was born in India on September third, nineteen seventy two.
Speaker 1: Parents relocated to Newcastle when she was really young. Both
Speaker 1: of her parents were doctors and pushed their children to
Speaker 1: do well in their studies. And you had completed her
Speaker 1: schooling and got a h SC. Do I say that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: But and HS and HSC to go into economics and
Speaker 1: law in at a n U, which is the Australian
Speaker 1: National University in Canberra. She also called the Act the.
Speaker 2: Act the Act of going to University. Correct a little
Speaker 2: bit of trivia for our international listeners because I would
Speaker 2: has it. I guess most people outside of Australia don't
Speaker 2: know this. Canberra is actually our capital city, not Sydney.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was because the two were fighting it out,
Speaker 1: weren't they.
Speaker 2: As we always do even hundred years ago. We were,
Speaker 2: And so they just picked a city in the middle.
Speaker 1: And you know what it's It is a lovely place, Canberra.
Speaker 1: I quite like Canberra, but they're nothing around it.
Speaker 2: No, it's yeah, it's in the it's in the middle,
Speaker 2: just a city that they was not even in the middle.
Speaker 2: It's closer to Sydney. But that's a very Melbourne person.
Speaker 1: To say they got it close up. Yeah, So she
Speaker 1: moved down there and started her degree. So that a
Speaker 1: New moved to Canberra and started her degree in the
Speaker 1: early nineties, but didn't cope living away from a home.
Speaker 1: She called her mother a lot and would go back
Speaker 1: home frequently. A New was extremely attractive, high achieving, and
Speaker 1: very well spoken. She had a focus on going to
Speaker 1: the gym and was an obsessive dieter. Her parents ended
Speaker 1: up moving to Sydney and lived and worked there, and
Speaker 1: You graduated in economics and her plan was to go
Speaker 1: back and finish her law degree.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: When Anew and Joe met at the brewery, they immediately
Speaker 1: hit it off. A New was back home for a
Speaker 1: short period of time. Their two friendship groups happened to
Speaker 1: know each other and they got chatting. Anew had a
Speaker 1: boyfriend at the time who she lived with in Canberra.
Speaker 1: His name was Simon Walsh. One report stated that he
Speaker 1: found out about the fling and ended it. Another stated
Speaker 1: that the more time Joe and a New spent together
Speaker 1: the less she could see Simon and it eventually fizzled out.
Speaker 1: So I don't really know which one is true. There
Speaker 1: it seemed like, yeah, he found out about it, big
Speaker 1: blow up, or that they stayed together for a while
Speaker 1: and the eventually.
Speaker 2: It sounds like there was some kind of crossover.
Speaker 1: There was some sort of crossovering.
Speaker 2: Joe was the reason she and Simon ended. Yep, yet
Speaker 2: whatever the timeline was.
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, but a New was really heartbroken by
Speaker 1: the breakup with Simon. Senior parole Officer Naomi Buick had
Speaker 1: spent hours interviewing a New and said that she had
Speaker 1: terminated a pregnancy while with Simon, which had a lasting
Speaker 1: and traumatic effect on her.
Speaker 2: Oh sad.
Speaker 1: She was particularly hurt by a claim he made calling
Speaker 1: her intellectually inferior, which which is what she said about others.
Speaker 1: So it really hit her, I guess because she said
Speaker 1: about everybody. Yeah, it had a really big impact on her.
Speaker 1: It was a huge turning point in her behavior.
Speaker 2: So she's allowed to call other people intellectually inferior, but
Speaker 2: if someone calls her that, yeah she was crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, dish it out, but you can't take care
Speaker 1: not me. I didn't growl and I didn't cover that
Speaker 1: out of the podcast. By late nineteen ninety five, she
Speaker 1: developed bollimia. She spiraled into a deep depression and moved
Speaker 1: back in with her parents. She wanted liposuction and refused
Speaker 1: to admit that she was suffering. She had a diet
Speaker 1: of Coca cola, tim tams, and she would smoke. She
Speaker 1: also dabbled in drugs. So she actually I think that
Speaker 1: her dad actually went through with the liposuction, which there
Speaker 1: was no.
Speaker 2: She had went through with it.
Speaker 1: Sorry, So I actually paid for her to have liposuctions.
Speaker 1: So she was really kind of the way that she
Speaker 1: spoke to people. She kind of seemed like she did
Speaker 1: to get her way with anything that she said, and
Speaker 1: there was nothing to her. She was the skinniest person
Speaker 1: and actually had lipeer sunction.
Speaker 2: I just looked up the photos understand that.
Speaker 1: Joe had been in an awful car accident with his
Speaker 1: family at the age of just eight years old. His mother, Maria,
Speaker 1: had a debilitating foot injury, and so Joe acted as
Speaker 1: caretaker during this time. He was soon to become a
Speaker 1: caretaker once again to a new They would talk on
Speaker 1: the phone dozens of times per day, dozens dozens, So
Speaker 1: when he was in Newcastle and she was in Canberra,
Speaker 1: a call about fifteen times a day.
Speaker 2: Well that's toxic.
Speaker 1: Joe was now by her side and her condition did
Speaker 1: not show signs of improvements. One of the things that
Speaker 1: was often commented that Anew would say that she was
Speaker 1: really sick, she had something, and Joe would have to
Speaker 1: continually go back to Camber to look after her.
Speaker 2: I've known a couple like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really yeah, Well I.
Speaker 2: Didn't end h murder on my lord.
Speaker 1: No, I didn't. So that what did you look at me?
Speaker 1: And the iron growl as well?
Speaker 2: That out of a podcast too.
Speaker 1: Joe. Joe had fallen head over heels for a new
Speaker 1: and who was a strikingly beautiful person. Like I mentioned before,
Speaker 1: Knew and Joe would talk for hours and hours at
Speaker 1: a time. By nineteen ninety six they were dating exclusively nice.
Speaker 2: Nice.
Speaker 1: They spent its like I looked at you like you.
Speaker 1: We always say because it looks at you, don't always
Speaker 1: say nice.
Speaker 2: You haven't been talking about without exclusively ready one two
Speaker 2: three Nice.
Speaker 1: They spent most of their free time together and from
Speaker 1: the outside looked like a very happy couple. Joe's family
Speaker 1: sat down for dinner with a new to finally meet her.
Speaker 1: They wanted to know kind of who this person was
Speaker 1: that their son was spending all this time with. Joe's
Speaker 1: parents believed she was intelligent, but thought that something was
Speaker 1: a bit off about her.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: She brought up a lot of odd topics, talking a
Speaker 1: lot about the afterlife, and also spoke about a previous
Speaker 1: relationship in great detail, saying there was almost a little incestuous.
Speaker 1: It was very strange, but her parents passed it off
Speaker 1: as someone who liked to shock people with different out
Speaker 1: their ideas.
Speaker 2: Haang on, I'm going to need to ask more about
Speaker 2: the ancestuous comment. There was a relationship with his family
Speaker 2: was incestuous.
Speaker 1: There was nothing more about it. But she described their
Speaker 1: sex life in great detail, I think, kind of saying
Speaker 1: that he was like a brother to her. It was
Speaker 1: like really incestuous. Joe didn't say anything at the time
Speaker 1: and continued eating, so she just kind of spoke about
Speaker 1: all of this in great detail.
Speaker 2: He is used to it, she speaks like that all
Speaker 2: the time. Or maybe he felt uncomfortable so just didn't
Speaker 2: get involved in the comp's.
Speaker 1: Kind of yeah, well, it is kind of alleged that
Speaker 1: he felt uncomfortable and that she was quite controlling. She
Speaker 1: did all the talking.
Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with that. Samy way looking in the iron.
Speaker 1: Growling didn't growl for Joe's friends and who was confident
Speaker 1: and domineering. It was pushing Joe into the background. He
Speaker 1: was become less sociable and let a new take the
Speaker 1: lead in every single conversation. It didn't help when the
Speaker 1: chin Quis found out that Anew was keeping their relationship
Speaker 1: a secret from her parents. They wanted her to prioritize
Speaker 1: her studies over boys. Joe instructed his parents to say
Speaker 1: if they ever met the Sings to say that he
Speaker 1: was just a friend of a news brother.
Speaker 2: Which is interesting because why would they meet if it
Speaker 2: weren't because they were dating.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. In case they just dropped in
Speaker 1: in Canberra. Maybe I don't know that because I was
Speaker 1: living together. They ended up living together. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think I reckon.
Speaker 2: The only partner I don't know, the only like parents
Speaker 2: of a partner my parents ever met was like at
Speaker 2: you know, maybe a twenty first birthday party, like until
Speaker 2: my parents were yes, I wanted to go and made
Speaker 2: them didn't invite them.
Speaker 1: So so the fact that that she didn't want to
Speaker 1: say anything about Joe to anyone, Yeah, it made Joe's
Speaker 1: parents feel a little bit off. They didn't like that
Speaker 1: Anew wasn't telling anyone about Joe and making him seem
Speaker 1: really small. They noticed that Joe wasn't quite himself and
Speaker 1: would now fade away in the background anytime Joe, anytime
Speaker 1: a Knew was around, and New would interrupt every time
Speaker 1: they tried to talk with Joe. One time when Nino
Speaker 1: the dand was trying to have a private conversation with Joe,
Speaker 1: and he walked up behind Joe, hugged him, kissed him,
Speaker 1: and pulled him away. It seemed to the family that
Speaker 1: Anew was always there to snatch Joe away.
Speaker 2: But there's not a lot I hate more than that
Speaker 2: level of yuck, jealousy, Yeah, murder, murder, first um in
Speaker 2: no particular or ushual.
Speaker 1: Their nightly dinner was often interrupted by Anew, and New
Speaker 1: eventually went back to Canberra. So this is this is
Speaker 1: you know, the timeline here is that she kept coming
Speaker 1: back to Newcastle at different points. She'd come back for
Speaker 1: a summer period or any holiday she'd come back. She
Speaker 1: wanted to be with her mum, and then she eventually
Speaker 1: went back to Canberra, four hundred and fifty kilometers south,
Speaker 1: which meant that Joe and her couldn't see each other as.
Speaker 2: Often didn't realize it was that far.
Speaker 1: It's a really long way from Newcastle, yeam. He would
Speaker 1: drive five and a half hours to see her on
Speaker 1: a Friday and return early Monday morning to start work
Speaker 1: hardly sleeping.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's a good boyfriend.
Speaker 1: Very good boyfriend, very good boyfriend. A new call Joe
Speaker 1: every night, often during the family meal, sometimes after. He
Speaker 1: would go and talk to her every time she called.
Speaker 2: No, sorry, rude. If you're having dinner with your family,
Speaker 2: to take them.
Speaker 1: Well, Maria thought. Marie would often take the phone off
Speaker 1: him and tell a knew to let him eat his meal.
Speaker 1: I am like Maria, Yeah, Maria's great because of it's
Speaker 1: from my.
Speaker 2: Said story Marie, I just met a Mario.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful. Because of all the calls, their phone bill skyrocketed.
Speaker 1: The calls were excessive, not to mention the expense. Joe
Speaker 1: was spending every weekend to spend time with her back
Speaker 1: in Canberra, and Niel often complained about being sick, which
Speaker 1: crippled her. From time to time, he would drop everything
Speaker 1: when she complained about being sick. Maria worried that Joe
Speaker 1: was exhausting himself and finding it hard to juggle everything
Speaker 1: with all the other things he had going on in
Speaker 1: his life. Maria tried to warn Joe not to let
Speaker 1: Anew control him, but he said, don't make me choose.
Speaker 1: I love you, but she needs me. Oh that broke
Speaker 1: Maria's heart.
Speaker 2: That breaks my heart.
Speaker 1: I am Maria, You are Maria. In September nineteen ninety six,
Speaker 1: Joe finally decided that he was going to move in
Speaker 1: to be with a new He was going to move
Speaker 1: to Canberra. They moved into a semi detached townhouse together
Speaker 1: and even opened up a joint bank account called and
Speaker 1: New and Joe's marriage Account WHOA as while Anew was studying,
Speaker 1: Joe was going to have to be the financial provider.
Speaker 1: Their house was in a bustling part of town near
Speaker 1: the university, in a place called Downer.
Speaker 2: In Downer a down hey.
Speaker 1: You should you should? You should say that there? I think,
Speaker 1: dibe you should say it there if you sounds mc
Speaker 1: ok in Newcastle at the end of the semester, the
Speaker 1: couple spent three weeks with Joe's family back in Newcastle,
Speaker 1: but Maria did not like her. She continued to feel
Speaker 1: that there was something very strange about her.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm going to play devil's advocatire and he's
Speaker 2: giving a little bit of Italian not wanting another woman
Speaker 2: to take her as well as Yeah, new sounds a
Speaker 2: bit alarm a couple in the early twenties.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah. Once back in Canberra, things took a downward spiral?
Speaker 2: Was it a bit of a downer?
Speaker 1: Nice one again? You did it again?
Speaker 2: Thank you?
Speaker 1: Yes, it was okay. Anu continued to be hyper fixated
Speaker 1: on her weight, excessively, going to the gym and watching
Speaker 1: what she was eating.
Speaker 2: Well, that's sad that she's got a mental disorder.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, yeah. She was suffering from bolimia and like
Speaker 1: I said before, her parents she kind of asked her parents'
Speaker 1: time and time again for liposuction. Her dad allegedly gave
Speaker 1: in and helped in nineteen ninety seven, and knew was
Speaker 1: complaining about chronic fatigue and muscle aches. Her health was
Speaker 1: her obsession and knew constantly had something wrong with her
Speaker 1: that she was fixated on, but it was all psychological.
Speaker 1: She approached Maria to speak about her car accident and
Speaker 1: how she dealt with the problem she faced with her foot.
Speaker 1: She noticed that a new was really fidgety that time
Speaker 1: and thought that perhaps she was having some kind of
Speaker 1: drug withdrawal. Robert, the Chinqua's godson was really concerned about
Speaker 1: Joe during his visits to Canberra. He watched the spark
Speaker 1: disappear from Joe's eyes. By mid nineteen ninety seven, Anu
Speaker 1: was convinced that she had contracted AIDS, which made her
Speaker 1: focus more and more on her health. God so she
Speaker 1: always had a new fixation of how sick she was
Speaker 1: and thought there was always something happening.
Speaker 2: Like a bit of insinuation, maybe some Mounchausen syndrome.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, they could be that. But also you know
Speaker 1: that there is some kind of drug effect there.
Speaker 2: As well, so I think, and medical anxiety absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1: She believed her body was shutting down. She was furious
Speaker 1: with Joe that didn't seem to care enough about her
Speaker 1: many ailments. When the results came back negative about the AIDS,
Speaker 1: she continued on various other diagnosises, diagnoses, diagnosis, diagnosis. Her
Speaker 1: parents attempted to have her admitted to a psychiatric facility,
Speaker 1: but she wasn't seen as a threat to herself or
Speaker 1: others and could not be admitted against her will. And
Speaker 1: this is this is what happens. You know, once you're
Speaker 1: over eighteen here in Australia, you cannot be admitted anywhere
Speaker 1: against your will.
Speaker 2: Yeah, unless you're deemed.
Speaker 1: Unless you're deemed unfit. Yeah, like to a dot where
Speaker 1: you can't make choices for yourself. And who was taking
Speaker 1: ippacac for a period of time. She said that Joe
Speaker 1: would point I'm going to explain that. Don't you worry
Speaker 1: about that? Aha. She said that Joe had pointed out
Speaker 1: this drug to her. Now it has been said that
Speaker 1: perhaps Joe mentioned the drug at a dinner party in
Speaker 1: passing as it's what supermodels take to keep weight off. Oh.
Speaker 1: This is a definition I found of the drug. Syrup
Speaker 1: of Ippacac, or simply ippocac, is a drug that was
Speaker 1: once widely used as an ex expert torrent except torrent
Speaker 1: accept YEA and a rapid acting emetic. It is obtained
Speaker 1: from the ride rhizome and roots of the epicaquana plant,
Speaker 1: from which it derives its name. It is no longer
Speaker 1: regularly used in medicine.
Speaker 2: So did it like an appetite of presidism.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and kind of like a weight loss thing.
Speaker 1: So a lot of supermodels did it to keep the
Speaker 1: weight off, you know. And the big thing here was
Speaker 1: that and who was like, oh, we mentioned it as
Speaker 1: a suggestion for me, But it later went on to
Speaker 1: say that he probably just mentioned it one time and
Speaker 1: she thought, I'll use that. And New had been taking
Speaker 1: a lot of drugs for recreational use at the time.
Speaker 1: Drugs were really big at the time at ANU and
Speaker 1: Canberra in general. She would take ecstasy with her previous
Speaker 1: boyfriend Simon. She would stop when she went home to
Speaker 1: her parents and would often have withdrawals at the time.
Speaker 1: Her parents are both doctors as well, so they've kind
Speaker 1: of would have seen what was happening. At the time.
Speaker 1: A New had some building resentment, stating that Joe didn't
Speaker 1: do anything around the house and that she felt that
Speaker 1: she was a housewife. She made another complaint to the
Speaker 1: university counselor, saying that Joe had hit her, yelled at her,
Speaker 1: and abused her. He had blamed her for hitting her
Speaker 1: and that she couldn't leave him because he was financially
Speaker 1: supporting her. This took place a few months before Joe's death.
Speaker 2: Do we know that allegation?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah yeahs since come out after a newer sentenced
Speaker 1: that she made that.
Speaker 2: Up, as in, she admitted to making it up, or
Speaker 2: other people have said.
Speaker 1: She made it up. Yeah, she told the counselor and
Speaker 1: she said that she was building a case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh Jesus, okay, knew I was going to have
Speaker 2: a believe women moment if other people had said, no,
Speaker 2: she made that up?
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, it was definitely Yeah, something that
Speaker 1: she made up and knew then believed that she had
Speaker 1: a degenerative muscle wasting disease that was fatal and believed
Speaker 1: that she she only had a few months to live.
Speaker 2: Does that a bit Munchausen, doesn't it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? It does.
Speaker 2: She's really believing she's got all these things that are wrong. Dear,
Speaker 2: is it or is it? Yeah? Munchausen by proxy is
Speaker 2: when a parent or someone but Munchausen is well, I
Speaker 2: feel like a hypercontract. Yeah. Yeah, maybe it's just that.
Speaker 2: To be fair, I think Munchausen is more you kind
Speaker 2: of believe you've got illness and that actually wheels it on.
Speaker 1: Ah right, I think, yeah, I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: Dear listeners. But yeah, maybe it's just hypochoni.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Like she just kind of felt like she
Speaker 1: had everything. She didn't tell her parents what it was exactly,
Speaker 1: just that she was sick. Her parents continued to encourage
Speaker 1: her to go to the doctor time and time again.
Speaker 1: She told her friends, but her friends kind of thought
Speaker 1: that it was a tall tale. So she was known
Speaker 1: for exaggerating.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Okay, it's got something else again, now.
Speaker 1: Something else again. Yeah, it was a figment of her imagination,
Speaker 1: but it was like she believed it. She started giving
Speaker 1: away her CDs and clothes. She showered up to seven
Speaker 1: times a day. Oh god, so she's really obsessive, like
Speaker 1: really obsessive. She believed that she got the disease from
Speaker 1: taking ippocac and blamed Joe for that.
Speaker 2: Oh dear.
Speaker 1: She actually told some people that she was going to
Speaker 1: kill Joe.
Speaker 2: Oh okay.
Speaker 1: She also told several people that she was going to
Speaker 1: kill herself and who made several attempts to get a gun.
Speaker 1: She went off, Yeah, so she wanted to kill herself
Speaker 1: with a gun that didn't happen, and so then she
Speaker 1: decided she'll go to different dealers to get heroin and
Speaker 1: have a lethal overdose of heroin. Someone told her that
Speaker 1: that's actually a pain free way to do it.
Speaker 2: And she had never like she wasn't a heroin user.
Speaker 1: No, well, yeah, no, I don't think so. I think
Speaker 1: that was the first time she did heroin. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: are the drugs, but not so.
Speaker 2: It was kind of like, I've never done heroines, so
Speaker 2: it would be quite easy to overdose on that. Maybe
Speaker 2: it was the thought she had.
Speaker 1: Well, someone told her that that's how you can kill yourself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so saying that if you actually had a lethal doze,
Speaker 1: it would be the best way to go bit paint
Speaker 1: free and knew would allegedly talk about how much smarter
Speaker 1: she was than Joe and constantly put him down in
Speaker 1: front of everyone.
Speaker 2: Again, because you felt so good when your ex boyfriend
Speaker 2: did that to you. Let's go and dime.
Speaker 1: No, let's have to think about that. She does far worse,
Speaker 1: but let's ever think about that as well. Joe was
Speaker 1: getting sick of the relationship and wanted an out. He
Speaker 1: was starting to make plans to break it off. He
Speaker 1: had purchased a new car, which was the first part
Speaker 1: of his exit plan and the first time you could
Speaker 1: see the joy back in his eyes. Many have since
Speaker 1: stated that knew newho knew. That's a hard one there, sorry,
Speaker 1: but everyone knew that he was going to leave. In fact,
Speaker 1: in his diary he had a note that he was
Speaker 1: going to pack up and leave. On the Monday, Joe's mother, Maria,
Speaker 1: had noticed that most of his things were gone in
Speaker 1: the house, like he had already been packing up and
Speaker 1: trying to leave. And who spoke quite openly, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: What doll along.
Speaker 2: The ground but with his leg both his front and
Speaker 2: back legs stretched out as far as he could possibly do,
Speaker 2: like like kind of cool?
Speaker 1: Did would you say? No comment? And Wu spoke quite
Speaker 1: openly about killing herself and a suicide pact between her
Speaker 1: and Joe. She would speak quite openly about it, but
Speaker 1: no one ever paid attention to her.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, I'm laughing at Diggs. I'll stop looking
Speaker 2: at him, obviously not laughing about this story. I'm so sorry,
Speaker 2: blessed mom.
Speaker 1: So yeah, she spoke openly about wanting to take her
Speaker 1: own life with a suicide pact with Joe. She would
Speaker 1: speak quite openly about it, but no one paid any
Speaker 1: attention to her anymore.
Speaker 2: Oh god, that it sounds like a proper boy who
Speaker 2: cried wolf.
Speaker 1: At this point, absolutely and New was diagnosed with a
Speaker 1: personality disorder and depression, but a lot of people around
Speaker 1: her said that she was just being dramatic and often
Speaker 1: lied about what was going on and what she was
Speaker 1: going to do. At that point as well, in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety seven, a New told a friend that she hated
Speaker 1: Joe and wanted to go on a rampage and kill Joe,
Speaker 1: her ex boyfriend Simon, and all of the doctors that
Speaker 1: had misdiagnosed her and did not take her seriously. She said,
Speaker 1: I studied psychiatric texts and it wouldn't be too hard
Speaker 1: to convince someone you're insane.
Speaker 2: Oh oh god, I'm sorry. Like I'm flicking between oh no,
Speaker 2: the poor thing and oh yeah, this.
Speaker 1: Is what it did to me as well. Yeah. She
Speaker 1: visited the library with her close friend and fellow student,
Speaker 1: Martavi raw great name, great name. A little bit about Martyvi.
Speaker 1: Martivi was an only child until the birth of a
Speaker 1: much younger sibling who was disabled. The family's hopes then
Speaker 1: focused on Martyvi, and all pressure out seemed to be
Speaker 1: placed on her. She was a great tennis player growing
Speaker 1: up and a good student, although she didn't get high
Speaker 1: enough a high enough score after high school to get
Speaker 1: into medicine, so decided she'd do law instead. Pretty good
Speaker 1: options still imagine going, I can't get medicine, just be lawyer.
Speaker 2: I guess I'll just do law.
Speaker 1: Her father was a well respected teacher and her mother
Speaker 1: a doctor. They both retired by the time that Martivi
Speaker 1: was at in university, but by the time the trial
Speaker 1: began they both had to start working again to pay
Speaker 1: for her legal fees and her defense lawyer. In the
Speaker 1: family home, there was strictly no smoking and no drinking.
Speaker 1: It's a friend of news, it's a friend of a
Speaker 1: nurse yep. Martivi was the quieter, more studious of her
Speaker 1: in Anu, and she followed her blindly. It was since
Speaker 1: being kind of stated that she was a bit of
Speaker 1: a doormat and was constantly walked on by stronger people.
Speaker 1: So Anu and Martave sourced a book about the individual's
Speaker 1: right to die. It contained information about assisted suicide and legislation.
Speaker 1: They photocopied several pages of this book. During this time,
Speaker 1: her parents tried to have her committed to a psychiatric
Speaker 1: facility again without her consent. This time this had to
Speaker 1: go through a magistrate. And before this long long approval process,
Speaker 1: Joe chinkwe would be dead, oh shit, and who told
Speaker 1: several people that Joe and her would be overdosing together
Speaker 1: in a suicide pact. That she and Joe would be
Speaker 1: overdosing in a suicide pact. But Joe had no idea
Speaker 1: about this plot.
Speaker 2: That's not a suicide packed.
Speaker 1: Then she was telling people to get them on kind
Speaker 1: of so that they would not raise aus vision with Joe,
Speaker 1: which is which is sorry.
Speaker 2: So she was saying, it's a suicide patht so don't
Speaker 2: say anything, don't say anything, Okay, far out. So it's
Speaker 2: obviously not a suicide pact. But that's what she was telling.
Speaker 1: That's what she was telling people. She told other people
Speaker 1: that she was going to drug him so that he
Speaker 1: was not aware that she was killing herself. So another
Speaker 1: another part of what she was saying was I'm going
Speaker 1: to kill myself, but Joe would get too upset. So
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna drug him with
Speaker 1: row hipnole in his coffee. He's nightly coffee. He's one
Speaker 1: of those people that has coffee.
Speaker 2: Weirdo.
Speaker 1: I don't understand.
Speaker 2: No, no, no Italian Italian.
Speaker 1: It's Italian, not a weirdo Italian.
Speaker 2: Sometimes they're confused.
Speaker 1: A new purchased another graham of heroin.
Speaker 2: Hang on, could we just go back to the I'll
Speaker 2: drug him because they'll get too upset. So it would
Speaker 2: be much better if he wakes up from a drugged
Speaker 2: stupor not knowing why he passed out and found his
Speaker 2: girlfriend dead. Yeah, that's maybe worse.
Speaker 1: It's a perfect plan. I don't I don't really, I
Speaker 1: don't really understand. I think she was. I don't think
Speaker 1: she's thinking clearly at all in any of this. And
Speaker 1: I think that this was part of her plan that
Speaker 1: she thought and Martivey was going.
Speaker 2: Along for the ride, like willingly sorry, not willingly knowingly?
Speaker 2: Or was she just kind of thinking, my friend's just
Speaker 2: gonna talk and smoke again.
Speaker 1: There's a bit of that. There's a bit of who knows.
Speaker 1: There's a bit of who knows, your honor? Who knows? Magistrate?
Speaker 1: I employ you can, I can I raise this? Who knows?
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think in this it was she
Speaker 1: kind of always thought that a New was talking smack.
Speaker 1: She she said this several times before. However, she did
Speaker 1: continually tell people throughout all of this.
Speaker 2: That told people that this is what I was saying.
Speaker 1: And that's what she was doing. A New purchased a
Speaker 1: graham of heroin. The dealer asked why she needed so much,
Speaker 1: and she said, someone's coming with me. The dealer asked
Speaker 1: if a New intended to end her own life, and
Speaker 1: she said that she did, but she would never reveal
Speaker 1: who the other person was.
Speaker 2: And the dealer still sold it to her.
Speaker 1: A dealer is or what's going to sell it?
Speaker 2: Tokay, Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1: There is no there is I don't think with a
Speaker 1: dealer there is anything.
Speaker 2: Deal was like, I just wanted to have a good time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's all I care about.
Speaker 1: Deals not going is this for? Who's that for? Good point?
Speaker 2: Good point, good point, good point.
Speaker 1: Now what we are going to go is the first
Speaker 1: part of this horrible, horrible, horrible event titled the First
Speaker 1: Dinner Party. Oh October Sunday. Okay, I said that in
Speaker 1: the weirdest way. October Sunday, nineteenth Joe visited his parents
Speaker 1: in Newcastle. Sunday, October nighty easier Sunday, October nineteen Joe,
Speaker 1: I'll do it one more time.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: Sunday, October nineteenth, Joe visited his parents in Newcastle. He
Speaker 1: told his mum that he and Anu were hosting a
Speaker 1: dinner party the following evening back in Canberra. He wanted
Speaker 1: to know if his mum had any meals prepared that
Speaker 1: he could serve his guests. So what a younger towing boy.
Speaker 2: If I did, I tell you? I love that, Mama, Please.
Speaker 1: Mamma, please, we'll come back to Sydney. Cook to Newcastle, Sorry,
Speaker 1: not to Sydney.
Speaker 2: So take your your home cooked meals four hundreds and
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: So he wanted to know if she had any preprepared
Speaker 1: meals so she could serve all of his guests for
Speaker 1: a dinner party.
Speaker 2: Don't feel like she would have.
Speaker 1: Well, Maria offered to cook something, but instead he'd pick
Speaker 1: up some fried chicken on the way home, which I
Speaker 1: don't think that's a dinner party if she was getting
Speaker 1: fried show.
Speaker 2: And it's not comparable to Maria's beautiful Italian food.
Speaker 1: No beautiful ton food.
Speaker 2: Maria I'll have your Italian food play.
Speaker 1: Well. The beautiful thing about this story, and there is
Speaker 1: only kind of one person, is that Helen Ghana got
Speaker 1: to spend quite a lot of time with Maria, and
Speaker 1: Maria would always cook for her and have her over Maria,
Speaker 1: Maria is beautiful. October twentieth, nineteen ninety seven, dinner party
Speaker 1: Monday was set to be held, and everyone showed up
Speaker 1: fully aware of a new's a new a news mental state.
Speaker 1: Martavi turned up with one of her friends, Olivia, who
Speaker 1: had not met Joe or anew before.
Speaker 2: Sorry when you're aware of her mental state, meaning that
Speaker 2: she wasn't in a good place, that she knowing what
Speaker 2: her plans were both what, No, I don't believe that.
Speaker 2: I can't believe that. Yeah, so they've come to a
Speaker 2: dinner party knowing.
Speaker 1: Martave has told everybody exactly why they're going along.
Speaker 2: We're going to this dinner party tonight afterwards, and Anu
Speaker 2: is going to drug her boyfriend with rehypnot.
Speaker 1: No, no, not that there's gonna be suicide packed after What
Speaker 1: the fuck?
Speaker 2: Why would you go to that dinner party?
Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing everyone went. It was a
Speaker 1: more curiosity no before the dinner, Marta V showed her
Speaker 1: a needle mark in her skin, explaining that Aniu had
Speaker 1: been practicing injecting on her to practice for her suicide.
Speaker 1: She explained to Olivia that the dinner was a final
Speaker 1: dinner before anew and Joe's joint packed.
Speaker 2: And Olivia is a random friend who came with Marti
Speaker 2: who didn't know the others.
Speaker 1: That's right, Novia was actually visiting from out of town.
Speaker 1: I think it was that friend there, Sammy.
Speaker 2: If you invited me to a dinner party with a
Speaker 2: friend and they're like on the way, you were like, oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, the friends are going to kill themselves afterwards,
Speaker 2: what do you say I won't come? Thank you very much?
Speaker 1: Well, you jump out of the card, stop dropping and roll.
Speaker 2: I stopped up and roll, And then I would get
Speaker 2: your mum to make me dinner's family.
Speaker 1: You know what, nothing against my mother, but I don't
Speaker 1: think it'd be a beautiful meal like Maria's.
Speaker 2: Cooking better than mine.
Speaker 1: Anu told Olivia and mar Devi that she had prepared
Speaker 1: too much food and that they had that they should
Speaker 1: go and knock on the doors of nearby people and
Speaker 1: get them to come. They did.
Speaker 2: It's going on. This is the weirdest store I've ever heard.
Speaker 1: Rumors had spread by that point of a News intentions
Speaker 1: for that night, spurring other students, some of which were
Speaker 1: total strangers, to attend in some kind of morbid curiosity.
Speaker 2: What are you talking about, Sammy?
Speaker 1: This is why this case is so bizarre, and through
Speaker 1: Helen Ganna's book, because she says, why did these people
Speaker 1: not do more? Joe Chinque was dead. That's what she
Speaker 1: kind of repeats throughout the book, and it's very powerful.
Speaker 2: I love the power of that.
Speaker 1: It's the effect.
Speaker 2: That I need the answer I don't.
Speaker 1: There is no question people went on to be lawyers,
Speaker 1: and a lot of them have since spoken out about it,
Speaker 1: some of them have not, and they that they all
Speaker 1: wanted to go and see why the people invited all
Speaker 1: new of a News plans to take her and Joe's life.
Speaker 1: They all believed it was some kind of farewell party.
Speaker 1: The only person that didn't know again was Joe Chinque.
Speaker 1: I hate this and who made it clear to everyone
Speaker 1: invited that Joe was in on the pact. They appeared
Speaker 1: really loving towards each other all night, which made a
Speaker 1: lot of people who intended to believe it was all
Speaker 1: now a harmless joke. So they went along, and then
Speaker 1: they went, oh, okay, maybe it's a joke all along.
Speaker 2: I feel like I mean, as I've just very obviously said,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't go anyway, but I feel like if they
Speaker 2: were seeing me really lovely and nice, that would almost
Speaker 2: make me believe it more, because you often hear the
Speaker 2: people who have decided they're going to take their own
Speaker 2: lives are quite happy and at peace and comforted.
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, day, well because he didn't know what was
Speaker 1: going on, but you know, but maybe they could looked
Speaker 1: to both of them and when they're both happy.
Speaker 2: But the guests thought he did now yeah, yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think I would go, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: they've decided to do this, and then oh god, yeah,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't think that. Again, I wouldn't be there.
Speaker 1: Martave drove quite a few of the guests home, telling
Speaker 1: them that the suicide was going ahead. Later that night,
Speaker 1: a few of the people asked they should seek medical assistance,
Speaker 1: but Martive told them not to a few of the
Speaker 1: people thought that it was a news choice if you
Speaker 1: really wanted to do that, and it wasn't their place
Speaker 1: to get involved or intervene. Yes, it was that's well.
Speaker 1: That night, a new crushed sedatives into Joe's drink so
Speaker 1: that he would drift off. She then fetched a pre
Speaker 1: prepared syringe, but she struggled to find the right vein.
Speaker 1: Joe got up in the morning and went to work,
Speaker 1: seemingly unaware of what had happened. By God, Aneu called
Speaker 1: Martivi and told her what happened. Martive was doing work
Speaker 1: experience at the Community and Health Services Complaints Commission. Ironic,
Speaker 1: she told two colleagues that something really serious had happened
Speaker 1: the night before and was paranoid the police were going
Speaker 1: to come.
Speaker 2: After Tell the police, Tell the police.
Speaker 1: She told her to.
Speaker 2: Tell your colleagues, tell the police.
Speaker 1: It was the major crime of the century. Ah and
Speaker 1: it had to do with revenge ha ha. And Neil
Speaker 1: asked one of her heroin dealer friends to source her
Speaker 1: some roue hipnol. The friend had no problem getting it.
Speaker 1: She got fifteen tablets. When paired with heroin, only one
Speaker 1: tablet was necessary, esus. So the heroin had actually congealed
Speaker 1: and she couldn't get it to work. It had been
Speaker 1: too long in the syringe and she couldn't get the heroin.
Speaker 1: She couldn't actually get it to inject, so Joe was
Speaker 1: knocked out after having in the morning coffee. Woke up
Speaker 1: the next morning and went, oh, we probably felt a
Speaker 1: bit groggy in as when he had no idea that
Speaker 1: it happened. A few days later, the same guests. Was
Speaker 1: surprised to receive another invitation, all of them all the
Speaker 1: same guests yep for I don't know if it's all
Speaker 1: the same guests, but a lot of the same people
Speaker 1: for Friday, October twenty fourth, Oh my god, same week
Speaker 1: the second dinner party yep, Monday was the first one,
Speaker 1: and then Friday's second.
Speaker 2: Hate this story.
Speaker 1: Despite the unsettling knowledge of their plans, they went along.
Speaker 1: The guests were told again that she was planning to
Speaker 1: take her and Joe's lives. Joe returned home to see
Speaker 1: a full house of people. He was surprised. He didn't
Speaker 1: know about the second dinner party, but went along with it.
Speaker 1: He was gracious and a sociable host.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, if I came home and there was
Speaker 2: a house full of people eating crack.
Speaker 1: In that fried chicken again. He was talking excitedly about
Speaker 1: his new car and his upcoming holiday to Queensland. Martivy
Speaker 1: told her friend Olivia that the plan was going ahead
Speaker 1: for real this time, but Olivia dismissed her, saying, people
Speaker 1: who are going to do this sort of thing don't
Speaker 1: just talk about it. They go ahead and do it, or.
Speaker 2: They're only talking about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Again, I suppose that. I feel like that's what I.
Speaker 1: Would happened once before the year. Yeah. I think a lot.
Speaker 2: About the things that she just talks about and.
Speaker 1: She cries out. Yes. Martave was certain that there was
Speaker 1: nothing she could do to stop it. Another guest thought
Speaker 1: it couldn't be true, and others thought it was another
Speaker 1: one of a news tall tales. The couple interacted exactly
Speaker 1: the same that night. They were both happy and bubbly.
Speaker 2: Which is interesting when we've just said that Joe had
Speaker 2: been planning to break up with her. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe he was acting for his friends. I don't know. Maybe,
Speaker 1: I don't know, who knows. The party continued into the
Speaker 1: early hours without incident. At six am the following morning,
Speaker 1: Martivi arrived home and told one of her friends that
Speaker 1: anew had put ten Rowe Hypnal tablets into Joe's coffee
Speaker 1: and tried to inject him with a lethal dose of heroin.
Speaker 2: Was Martaby saying this because she was there or because
Speaker 2: that's what Anu said she was going to do.
Speaker 1: She was apparently there at the time because left after
Speaker 1: she did that.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, Yeah that's accessory.
Speaker 1: Yes, it didn't work. It's amazing. It wasn't his time
Speaker 1: to go.
Speaker 2: Martaby said that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. When the friend asked why Anu was trying to
Speaker 1: hurt Joe, Martavi said, Joe's the problem. She wants to
Speaker 1: take Joe with her. It's because she blames him her condition.
Speaker 2: Oh no.
Speaker 1: Martivy decided at that point that she wasn't going to
Speaker 1: be involved in any further plan, So her friend kind
Speaker 1: of talked to her out of it and said, what
Speaker 1: are you doing?
Speaker 2: Hang on, sorry, after being there to witness someone give.
Speaker 1: Someone yeah tenor hypnos and then he pissed off. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well didn't see the heroin but and.
Speaker 2: Said, you know what, I've let my friend taught me out.
Speaker 1: Of doing that ever again, I'm not going to do
Speaker 1: that anymore.
Speaker 2: I don't like Martiby.
Speaker 1: As the day continued, word of a news plan spread.
Speaker 1: One friend threatened to contact the police, but a new
Speaker 1: found out about this and talked to the friend out
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: Hang on, so Joe, do we know what Joe's condition is?
Speaker 2: At this point? No ok?
Speaker 1: And New told the friend that she would do nothing
Speaker 1: to hurt Joe. And who told this person that they
Speaker 1: were going to be engaged? Why would she hurt him?
Speaker 1: And New admitted to these concerned people that she had
Speaker 1: given Joe the sedatives, but she had only done it
Speaker 1: so that he would be sleep when she tried to
Speaker 1: end her own life. She convinced them that Joe was
Speaker 1: not in any danger and she would confess to him
Speaker 1: about spiking his drink. Everyone decided to let this go.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, So the news at that point had only
Speaker 1: spread of the tembro hypnol tablets. But I'm sure at
Speaker 1: that point it wasn't I'm sure at that point though,
Speaker 1: it wasn't ten like I'm sure people drugged exactly. At
Speaker 1: ten nineteen that evening, Anu called her friend Len, who
Speaker 1: was fully aware of the sinister plans, but expressed his
Speaker 1: opinion to others that it was just a new being
Speaker 1: dramatic and a desperate cry for attention.
Speaker 2: Ten pm the following night, Saturday and night day.
Speaker 1: Neil asked how strong ra hypnol was She said that
Speaker 1: Joe had been asleep for a really long time, about
Speaker 1: fifteen hours, and was now groggy and couldn't keep his
Speaker 1: eyes open. She was worried about what she had done,
Speaker 1: but Len told her that she wouldn't have caused any
Speaker 1: long term damage. Joe took the phone and said, hey, mate,
Speaker 1: my mind is one hundred percent functional. Joe said that apparently,
Speaker 1: yet my body just wants to sleep like crazy. That's all.
Speaker 1: She's worried for nothing. Now. I'm very confused about that, apparently,
Speaker 1: he I don't know if she ever told him that
Speaker 1: she had given him that much for hypnol, but it
Speaker 1: seems like she did confess that to him, told him
Speaker 1: that on the phone, I gave you a hypnol blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: That's why you can't stay awake.
Speaker 1: That's right, I think she had told him at that point.
Speaker 1: After midnight, Anew called another friend, asking if it was impossible,
Speaker 1: if it was possible to inject heroin into your legs
Speaker 1: or the backs of your arm. The next morning, Sunday,
Speaker 1: October twenty sixth, nineteen ninety seven, a new visited Martavi
Speaker 1: and told her Joe wasn't breathing and she needed money
Speaker 1: to get some heroin to take her own life. Martave
Speaker 1: drove her to an Am and withdrew two hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty dollars cash before walking home alone.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry Marta. By Martive, you can get fucked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, should't get fucked. At nine am, a New purchased
Speaker 1: half a gram of heroin. She was anxious and kept
Speaker 1: saying today's the day. Anew continually called Martive that day.
Speaker 1: Martyve told Anu to leave her alone, but eventually caved
Speaker 1: after Anu was extremely persistent. Martive went to pick her up.
Speaker 2: So she was like, leave me alone, go kill yourselven peace. Yeah,
Speaker 2: fuck this girl.
Speaker 1: They both had a heated argument. While Anu appeared to
Speaker 1: be very distressed. Martivi went to speak to Len and
Speaker 1: told him that after Joe awoke the night before, he
Speaker 1: told Anew that he was going to leave her. Martive
Speaker 1: then explained that a new tried to kill Joe with heroin.
Speaker 1: Len had been convinced it was all a tall tale
Speaker 1: up until this point. He suggested calling a news parents
Speaker 1: to tell them in case a New later claim that
Speaker 1: Joe had injected himself. Len and martivey went for a
Speaker 1: drive just in case Anew tried to involve them further.
Speaker 1: During that drive, Martivi told Lenn that she had actually
Speaker 1: been to their house earlier that day and had witnessed
Speaker 1: Joe unconscious on their bed. She'd seen that, and she
Speaker 1: went to the house, saw him unconscious, not moving.
Speaker 2: And left and then was like, I don't want to
Speaker 2: help anymore.
Speaker 1: I don't want to help anymore.
Speaker 2: Took her to get him and all.
Speaker 1: That more time at the car, his skin was pale,
Speaker 1: his lips were blue, but he was still breathing, and
Speaker 1: Marv decided to leave anywhere.
Speaker 2: This is the person who wanted to study medicine.
Speaker 1: That's right, right, a new phone, the friend who had
Speaker 1: supplied the Rowe hypnole. She was advised to call an ambulance,
Speaker 1: but I knew said that she couldn't because Joe didn't
Speaker 1: know and he would be furious. She said that Joe
Speaker 1: was didn't know that that she had given him a hypno,
Speaker 1: and that if you.
Speaker 2: Don't call the ambulance for Joe would be because it'll
Speaker 2: be mad at me for giving him a hypno.
Speaker 1: That's right, and the story she said that Joe was
Speaker 1: taking one breath every ten seconds. The friend said that
Speaker 1: she needed to do mouth to mouth resuscitation. Joe began
Speaker 1: vomiting black liquid. The friend told her time and time
Speaker 1: again to hang up and call an ambulance, but a
Speaker 1: news said it was all too late. The friend then
Speaker 1: told her new that if she didn't call the ambulance
Speaker 1: then she might have a murder change to deal with.
Speaker 1: At this point, a new disconnected the call. At twelve
Speaker 1: ten PMS. Is on the Sunday, a new called emergency services.
Speaker 2: So we're bordering on twenty four hours from when.
Speaker 1: She hypno, not the heroine, but yeah, the rape and
Speaker 1: just watched him. She was absolutely hysterical on the phone,
Speaker 1: which we spoke about at the start. She continually changed
Speaker 1: the address or kind of justs gave a fake address.
Speaker 1: When asked for her name, she said her name was Olivia.
Speaker 1: The dispatcher told her to provide mouth to mouth resuscitation,
Speaker 1: but she couldn't because he was coughing up so much
Speaker 1: blood and his teeth were cleanched shut. When paramedics arrived, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, this is what's I know.
Speaker 1: When paramedics arrived, a new waved them down. Joe was
Speaker 1: lying diagonally across the bed, naked from the waist down.
Speaker 1: He could not be resuscitated and knew begged them to
Speaker 1: keep trying, throwing herself onto his body. It wasn't supposed
Speaker 1: to happen this way, she said. We were supposed to
Speaker 1: go together. Oh God. When police arrived, they had to
Speaker 1: physically remove anew from the bedroom. She explained that she
Speaker 1: had given Joe four or hypnoal tablets and then injected him.
Speaker 1: She promptly taken into custody.
Speaker 2: She said, that's police, straight away, straight away. That's interesting.
Speaker 1: On the twenty sixth of October, Joe's mother, Maria, was
Speaker 1: on the edge. Joe called her always to check in
Speaker 1: every Sunday, but this time he hadn't. When Joe still
Speaker 1: hadn't called, Maria called Joe, but was met with a
Speaker 1: police officer's voice.
Speaker 2: Oh god.
Speaker 1: Her blood ran cold. At the same time, there was
Speaker 1: an officer knocking on her door. The police told Maria
Speaker 1: and Nino that they were there about Joe. Maria begged
Speaker 1: them not to tell her anything more. She knew that
Speaker 1: Joe was gone, but she did not want to hear it.
Speaker 1: Family and friends traveled to the Margue to identify Joe. Robert,
Speaker 1: the Chinkway's godson, could hardly believe it. He had seen
Speaker 1: Joe smiling like he used to when he spoke about
Speaker 1: his car. Police explained that foul play was suspected and
Speaker 1: anew had been taken into custody. Toxicology report showed high
Speaker 1: levels of heroin and roe hypnol. It was so ro
Speaker 1: hypnol itself is ten times stronger than vallium.
Speaker 2: Oh wow. So yeah, it's probably a stupid question. I'm
Speaker 2: sure the answer is for sedation, but what is real
Speaker 2: hypno used forty someone unwittingly?
Speaker 1: I don't know. It is a very strong sedative, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think we have it here, Yeah anymore.
Speaker 2: I think you only hear about it used as it like,
Speaker 2: for exactly, because it's so strong, drugging people in nightclubs.
Speaker 1: And exactly, and it's you know, ten times stronger than
Speaker 1: vallium just one. So yeah, imagine.
Speaker 2: So I almost feel like I don't know why it exists,
Speaker 2: which I understand it's an ignorant comment, but it just
Speaker 2: feels like, why can people get it at all?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it must be used if you have a prescription
Speaker 1: for it must be used for something, but I don't
Speaker 1: really know.
Speaker 2: Like the was it fentanyl that Michael Jackson, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Maybe that. Yeah. So it didn't take two long for
Speaker 1: Martiv row New's best friend to be brought in for questioning.
Speaker 1: Detectives soon learnt that Joe's murder had been planned for months.
Speaker 1: Anew had studied suicide methods extensively, and how to inject
Speaker 1: someone with heroin.
Speaker 2: Then it's not suicide if it's injecting someone else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Anew needed to rely on her friend, Martivi, who
Speaker 1: had rehypnol, who had connections on how to obtain it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, Martive's friend who actually had the rhypnoal and
Speaker 1: how to obtain it. At both dinner parties, a New
Speaker 1: laced Joe's coffee with a sedative, So first it was
Speaker 1: it was another sedative, and then the second time it
Speaker 1: was hypnol. The first attempt to inject him with the
Speaker 1: heroin didn't work, it had congealed inside of the syringe.
Speaker 1: On the second evening, a New managed to inject a
Speaker 1: fatal amount of heroin in his bloodstream. While he lay
Speaker 1: paralyzed and unable to save himself, Martive was taken to
Speaker 1: the station and was also charged for the murder of
Speaker 1: Joe Chinque Martavi said, I tried at every stage to intercede.
Speaker 1: Three days later, her parents secured her one hundred thousand
Speaker 1: dollars bail, but she had to remain under supervision. Most
Speaker 1: disturbing of all, a nurse sat and watched as Joe
Speaker 1: suffered in pain for a very very long time. It
Speaker 1: was only when his lips started turning blue and started
Speaker 1: coughing blood, and people repeatedly taught her to call paramedics
Speaker 1: that a new called an acquaintance and told her that
Speaker 1: there had been an overdose.
Speaker 2: I called an acquaintance, Well called her.
Speaker 1: I remember she called the friend and said, oh do
Speaker 1: I do what I do? Every pressure second was eaten
Speaker 1: up with the wild goose chase. She put the paramedics through,
Speaker 1: giving incorrect information and even referring to herself as Olivia
Speaker 1: on the phone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to know more about that.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Joe died of a cardiac arrest.
Speaker 2: Is that most is that commonly what an overdose would cause?
Speaker 1: I think I think it's pretty common. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: it is pretty common. Yeah, yeah, especially when you can't
Speaker 1: you can't really breathe properly, and there's yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: like with Yeah. Police searched Joe's diary and found an
Speaker 1: appointment scheduled get ready to move, move urgent today. Joe
Speaker 1: was obviously trying to leave a new he wanted out.
Speaker 2: I mean that's interesting in itself. One, why do you
Speaker 2: put that in your diary when you, yeah, live with someone.
Speaker 2: Two he was happy at the dinner party. By all
Speaker 2: accounts from other people, I don't know. Maybe they've said
Speaker 2: that because they feel like they realized they might be access.
Speaker 1: To Yeah, well you know people, do you know, play
Speaker 1: nice in front of other people if there's other people around.
Speaker 1: I think. One year later, Anew and MARTIVI were scheduled
Speaker 1: to be tried together.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, both charged with murder.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was this is what was going to happen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: A new was held in custody, a new phone of
Speaker 1: friend asking them to bring her all the high court
Speaker 1: cases where somebody had pled not guilty due to reasons
Speaker 1: of insanity.
Speaker 2: I decided that's what she's going to that's what she's.
Speaker 1: Going to go with. The joint trial began on October sixth,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, at the Supreme Court a new pled
Speaker 1: not guilty for reasons of diminished responsibility. This meant that
Speaker 1: she admitted to what she had done, but she could
Speaker 1: not be held liable for murder because of her mental
Speaker 1: state at the time. She claimed that she was suffering
Speaker 1: from untreated borderline personality disorder, a major depressive disorder, which
Speaker 1: include explosive anger, unstable relationships, chronic fears of abandonment, and
Speaker 1: a false sense of reality.
Speaker 2: I don't really know if any of them would.
Speaker 1: Justify murder killing someone.
Speaker 2: No, exactly.
Speaker 1: Borderline personal disorder is an interesting one, Like, I don't
Speaker 1: really know heaps about that. I certainly know people who
Speaker 1: have had borderline personal disorder, and it is it is
Speaker 1: a very hut breaking thing to see someone.
Speaker 2: Yes, I can't think of a case I've heard of
Speaker 2: where that's been successfully as a defense for killing somebody.
Speaker 2: But no, I could be very wrong. I just can't
Speaker 2: think of the time I've heard that.
Speaker 1: No, it may have. The dealer who supplied the heroine
Speaker 1: was granted immunity for providing evidence against the pair. Many
Speaker 1: people came forward saying that they knew of the plans
Speaker 1: and that Martive assisted in carrying out the plan when pressed,
Speaker 1: when no one came forward at the time. No one
Speaker 1: could provide a sufficient explanation. That's why you got so
Speaker 1: angry before. We can't provide one. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: I still waiting for you too. You haven't finished this
Speaker 2: story yet, and if you don't provide me, I'm really mad.
Speaker 1: During the fourth week of the trial, the judge realized
Speaker 1: that mounting that mounting evidence against the pair would likely
Speaker 1: cause unfair prejudice against Martavi. He terminated the proceedings, deciding
Speaker 1: that Martive and Anu should be tried separately at a
Speaker 1: later date.
Speaker 2: Wait what so understand that.
Speaker 1: Realized that Mardive should not be tried with a new.
Speaker 2: You can't do that four weeks into her trial?
Speaker 1: Surely, well apparently they did.
Speaker 2: What This whole thing is so confusing, Like none of
Speaker 2: the things you're saying sound like they're real.
Speaker 1: I know, they're just words, I say the prosecution.
Speaker 2: I've know you long enough now. I just listened to
Speaker 2: the words you say, and then after a while I go, wait,
Speaker 2: tell what?
Speaker 1: Wait what? The prosecution offered Anew the opportunity to plead
Speaker 1: to manslaughter for a reduced sentence, but she refused, maintaining
Speaker 1: her innocence. While awaiting her second trial, Anew had a
Speaker 1: letter seized from her locker. It read, I've decided to
Speaker 1: write down how this happened to get it clear in
Speaker 1: my mind. Also, she went on to describe all of
Speaker 1: the events that led to Joe's death, starting with her
Speaker 1: and Martive going to the library to find the book
Speaker 1: on assisted. She said that she had initially intended to
Speaker 1: end her own life, but then after reading about partners
Speaker 1: were married who had married a couple of years after
Speaker 1: their loved ones had died of suicide, she decided it
Speaker 1: was only fair that Joe would die with her. So
Speaker 1: that's not your choice because it'd be heartbroken. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: No, that is not your choice.
Speaker 1: From then, all she thought about was death. She wrote,
Speaker 1: Didn't I think at the time that these friends of
Speaker 1: mine were helping me to die? Didn't I stop and
Speaker 1: think that Joe was helping me to live? No? I
Speaker 1: felt compelled to do it because I thought everyone was
Speaker 1: against me and only cared if Joe died or not. No.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm aware that at the start you said, you know,
Speaker 2: compassion or understanding for her, and maybe we're getting there,
Speaker 2: but right now quit with your poetic bullshit and just
Speaker 2: admit guilt.
Speaker 1: She goes on, Then I wasn't sure where to call
Speaker 1: the ambulance because Martavy said that if you call the ambulance,
Speaker 1: he will leave you and put.
Speaker 2: You in as Oh my God.
Speaker 1: In a letter addressed to her mother, a new wrote,
Speaker 1: the most wonderful man in the world loved me so much,
Speaker 1: would have made a perfect husband and father ruined, perfect
Speaker 1: life ruined. Now everyone is better off than me when
Speaker 1: I had it all. I bet everyone is laughing at
Speaker 1: me now because of my own artist stupidity and selfishness.
Speaker 1: You must start preparing for my death. Now my life
Speaker 1: is over. I made the wrong choice when so many
Speaker 1: others were available at the time, worked with Druggies rather
Speaker 1: than Joe. Should have protected him and worked with him.
Speaker 1: Now so many lives are ruined.
Speaker 2: She's written this letter to her mind mother more than
Speaker 2: a year after Yeah.
Speaker 1: A new solo trial began in March nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1: It was a judge only trial. Her plea. And there's
Speaker 1: also no way, Yeah, that you could have any kind
Speaker 1: of person in the camera that wouldn't have known about you.
Speaker 1: Her plea was not guilty. The defense stated that she
Speaker 1: suffered from borderline personal disorder and severe oppression since her teens.
Speaker 1: She was in a delusional world where she truly believed
Speaker 1: that she was going to die from a disease. She
Speaker 1: was suffering from a depressive illness that culminated in Joe's death.
Speaker 1: Oh my God, psychiatrist spoke of a personal disorder as
Speaker 1: exacerbated by her substance abuse and bolimia. If she had
Speaker 1: sought help, it would have changed everything. The psychiatrist stated
Speaker 1: the new should be put into a facility, not to prison.
Speaker 1: The prosecution argued that her news actions were not impacted
Speaker 1: by her mental state and she was perfectly capable of
Speaker 1: making rational decisions. This was proven by her waiting to
Speaker 1: call an ambulance, and by the time she did it
Speaker 1: it seemed as though she was hindering efforts to saves
Speaker 1: to save Joe's life by giving false information. They argued
Speaker 1: that she was depressed. She would have actually killed herself
Speaker 1: after Joe, not made not made her up sorry, not
Speaker 1: made a decision for herself after that fact, not to go.
Speaker 1: Her diara was also displayed, which was destroyed and pieced
Speaker 1: back together, which showed a vengeance against Joe. She also
Speaker 1: watched him die, which was an act of extraordinary cruelty.
Speaker 1: Various witnesses described Anew as psycho dramatic and appeared healthy,
Speaker 1: which is why no one questioned whether she was serious
Speaker 1: in killing herself.
Speaker 2: Which that's not fair.
Speaker 1: A psychiatrist for the prosecution concluded that Anew was of
Speaker 1: sound mind when she killed Joe. Her problem was a
Speaker 1: lack of maturity, which impaired her from being able to
Speaker 1: control her moods or temper. She had actually called a
Speaker 1: friend to ask for help, which showed that she was
Speaker 1: trying to remove any guilt away from her and worried
Speaker 1: about the consequences. Justice Crispin acknowledged the profound challenges of
Speaker 1: the case. He was satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that she
Speaker 1: intended to murder Joe, but he also accepted that she
Speaker 1: was suffering from an abnormality of mind. It was impossible
Speaker 1: to determine what she was thinking at the time or
Speaker 1: what led her to take such actions. The case was
Speaker 1: absolutely massive. Camera crews and journalists were everywhere ready for
Speaker 1: the verdicts. The Hinque sat at the front of the
Speaker 1: courtroom awaiting the verdict. They did not miss a day
Speaker 1: of court, Maria was sobbing into her handkerchief. The family
Speaker 1: could not accept that so many people knew of a
Speaker 1: news claims and that no one, particularly at both dinner parties,
Speaker 1: did anything about it. Just as Crispin addressed Anew directly,
Speaker 1: in the next few years, you will have to come
Speaker 1: to terms with the fact that you killed the man
Speaker 1: you love. You have caused immense pain. If you find
Speaker 1: the moral courage, you may be able to rebuild from
Speaker 1: this wreckage, to repay the trust people have put in you.
Speaker 1: He then declared her not guilty of Joe's murder, but
Speaker 1: guilty of manslaughter on grounds of diminished responsibility. Wow and
Speaker 1: Neew was sentenced to only ten years in prison, with
Speaker 1: a non parole period of four years backdated to the
Speaker 1: time of Joe's death. She would be eligible in two years.
Speaker 1: When Justice Crispin left the courtroom, Maria turned to Anu
Speaker 1: and said, this is where you belong. You stay forever Rodin,
Speaker 1: How you bitch devil, She's a demon? My son, that's
Speaker 1: all four years? How can you sleep at night? Four years?
Speaker 1: Is that all my son is worth? So sad, so sad.
Speaker 1: Maria told the journalis outside that Anu should have been
Speaker 1: sentenced to death. It was widely believed that Anu had
Speaker 1: fooled the court into believing that she wasn't of sound mind.
Speaker 1: Joe Chinque was twenty six years old. He was looking
Speaker 1: forward to sharing his life with his girlfriend, a new singer.
Speaker 1: He had supported her and he stayed with her with
Speaker 1: all her ailments, real or not real. She herself called
Speaker 1: him the most wonderful man in the world. She was premeditated,
Speaker 1: she planned to kill him, and she was acquitted of
Speaker 1: murder for diminished responsibility. Six months later, Martivi Rau pled
Speaker 1: not guilty for fuck sake. The prosecution stated that she
Speaker 1: was criminally responsible for aiding a knew she was fully
Speaker 1: aware of the plot to kill Joe and failed her
Speaker 1: duty of care. The prosecution believed that she was present
Speaker 1: when Anu put the sedatives in Joe's coffee or a
Speaker 1: hypnoal that morning at six am, but it could not
Speaker 1: be proven what time this all happened and when Joe
Speaker 1: was injected. When she saw Joe ill in his bedroom,
Speaker 1: she did not have a duty of care and she
Speaker 1: was a friend, not a spouse.
Speaker 2: No no no, no, no, no no no.
Speaker 1: The defense maintained that she had no more legal responsibility
Speaker 1: than a complete stranger.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sorry, surely there's still a duty of care for
Speaker 2: a stranger. If you see someone with blue lips past us,
Speaker 2: absolutely do something about it.
Speaker 1: She was alarmingly passive in her friendship with ANEW and
Speaker 1: went to unhealthy lengths to put her friend's needs ahead
Speaker 1: of her own. She had difficulty standing up for herself.
Speaker 1: She taught a classmate, I've got a friend who's suicidal.
Speaker 1: She smothers me. A prison welfare officer overheard Anew putting
Speaker 1: the pressure on Martivi about getting their stories straight. Martivi
Speaker 1: was declared not guilty, fuck off of all chargers, fuck off.
Speaker 1: Although her story was suspicious, they could not prove that
Speaker 1: she shared a news criminal intent. Maria and Nino had
Speaker 1: to be escorted out of the court for their protesting
Speaker 1: about what had happened. Nino collapsed and was rushed to
Speaker 1: hospital with heart problems. Martiv was let off.
Speaker 2: She was now free, just not guilty, completely, just acquitted.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was allowed to leave. A new later said
Speaker 1: it's my fault entirely. I was hysterical and she just
Speaker 1: loved me and wanted to help me. What would sending
Speaker 1: her to jail have really done, would it have eased
Speaker 1: Maria and Nino's pain anymore.
Speaker 2: That's not the only point of a guilty verdict. That's
Speaker 2: not the only point of punishment and rehabilitation, of retribution.
Speaker 1: Having some sort of justice. It seemed this perpetuating sorrow
Speaker 1: on so many people. Her family would have suffered as
Speaker 1: my family suffered. I don't put any blame on Martyvi.
Speaker 1: I Knew served her sentence in a maximum security prison,
Speaker 1: where she worked in a prison library and shootd other inmates.
Speaker 1: She underwent psychotherapy and was prescribed for medication to treat depression, anxiety,
Speaker 1: and conbolsy disorder. She was later transferred and granted day
Speaker 1: release to the University of Sydney. In October two thousand
Speaker 1: and one, she was released on paroul at the age
Speaker 1: of just twenty nine, two years old. Two years yeah,
Speaker 1: only a few years older than Joe was when his
Speaker 1: life was taken away from him. In two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: she breached her parole conditions for smoking cannabis and went
Speaker 1: back to prison for three months. In two thousand and nine,
Speaker 1: she was awarded a doctorate from the University of Sydney
Speaker 1: for a thesis offending women toward a greater understanding of
Speaker 1: women's pathways into and out of crime in Australia. She
Speaker 1: has since admitted that she lied in nineteen ninety seven
Speaker 1: when she told a counselor that Joe had been abusive
Speaker 1: to her. Joe had expressed frustration with her, but he
Speaker 1: never indicated that he wanted to leave her. She had
Speaker 1: told him various times of her intention to take her
Speaker 1: own life, but he encouraged her to keep living. Then
Speaker 1: asked why she did it, she said, there's absolutely no
Speaker 1: legitimate or rational motivation at all. Martyve changed her name
Speaker 1: and moved to the United States with her husband and kids.
Speaker 1: She got to have a life. Yeah, A lot of
Speaker 1: the people who went to the party on those nights
Speaker 1: went on to finish their law degrees. The townhouse has
Speaker 1: since been demolished to make way for a new government
Speaker 1: housing project. Joe's childhood room remains untouched. The Chinquays are,
Speaker 1: of course still the Chinquays are, of course still perplexed
Speaker 1: as to why no one came to Joe's aid. If
Speaker 1: you see a dog on the street from a car accident,
Speaker 1: you call somebody to help the bloody dog her father,
Speaker 1: Nino said so his father, Nino said. Joe Chinquay's death
Speaker 1: has often been cited as a tragic example of the
Speaker 1: bystander effect, a social cycle logical claim where people are
Speaker 1: less likely to help someone if others are present, believing
Speaker 1: someone else will act. A new made a public apology
Speaker 1: to the Chinhwui family on television a Current Affair in
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven scene, saying, there are many things
Speaker 1: people don't understand. There's a lot of things that have
Speaker 1: been overlooked. I was suffering from a very very severe
Speaker 1: mental illness of the time. If I could have listened
Speaker 1: to people and sought the right sort of mental help,
Speaker 1: this wouldn't have happened. I would like to say to
Speaker 1: Maria and Nino that I am deeply, deeply sorry for
Speaker 1: what happened, and to that if I could, if there
Speaker 1: was any way I could turn back the clock, I
Speaker 1: would do so in a heartbeat. In the same episode,
Speaker 1: Muru rejected the apology, calling Anew the devil and responding,
Speaker 1: don't tell me this bullshit. You have killed the most
Speaker 1: precious thing I had in my life, my first son,
Speaker 1: my firstborn, the one who was going to carry his
Speaker 1: grandfather's name is not here anymore. Maria Chinque believes that
Speaker 1: Joe wasn't just betrayed by a new but also the
Speaker 1: entire justice system. In the book Joe's Hinque's Consolation, Helen
Speaker 1: Ghana goes to visit Justice Crispin, who presided over the case.
Speaker 1: Maria had called him all kinds of names and said
Speaker 1: that she hoped a child of his was murdered so
Speaker 1: he would understand. Justice Crispin understood her hurt and frustration.
Speaker 1: In fact, he had lost a child.
Speaker 2: Too, Oh God.
Speaker 1: Helen asked him about his lenient ruling in the case
Speaker 1: of Sing. He said both her parents were doctors. They
Speaker 1: were terrified about the way she was behaving. They lugged
Speaker 1: her to doctors and psychiatrists, and then twice tried to
Speaker 1: have her locked up as an involuntary patient. Imagine how
Speaker 1: frightened you'd have to be about your own child to
Speaker 1: want to do that. Justice Crispin also goes on to
Speaker 1: say about Martavi, I think Rau was very coerced as
Speaker 1: to what to do. She was paralyzed with indecision. I
Speaker 1: think Rau was very concerned as to what to do.
Speaker 1: I think it means she was paralyzed with indecision. Her
Speaker 1: friend was saying, these things that were off the planet.
Speaker 1: Nobody else was taking it seriously. Should she take it seriously?
Speaker 1: What if she blew the whistle and rang the police
Speaker 1: and then it all turned out to be a hoax.
Speaker 2: That doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: By the time of her release, Arne already had a
Speaker 1: boyfriend who she met during her trial. Back in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety nine. She spent eighteen months at the remand center,
Speaker 1: where male and female inmates were able to make contact.
Speaker 1: She had three romantic attachments in that time, but only
Speaker 1: one serious, who later went on to become her partner.
Speaker 1: After being released, they moved to Sydney together. I Knew
Speaker 1: managed to finish her PhD in prison and actually wanted
Speaker 1: to become a criminologist. I Knew attempted to make a
Speaker 1: documentary about prison and approach the founder of a victim
Speaker 1: support group called Enough Is Enough. The founder's response was
Speaker 1: that if she wanted to genuinely help people, yes, but
Speaker 1: if she wanted to make a film, then forget about it.
Speaker 1: Like if she just wanted to make a film, then
Speaker 1: just forget about it. They never heard back from a
Speaker 1: new A few months later, a new spoker out about
Speaker 1: how annoyed she had been about the public mistreatment and
Speaker 1: how difficult she felt it was to get a job
Speaker 1: in a chosen field. Her boyfriend was quoted as saying
Speaker 1: she wasn't an angel, but has served her time two years.
Speaker 1: In the book Joe Chinquay's Consolation by Helen Ghana, she
Speaker 1: starts out wanting to talk to a new to Martivi
Speaker 1: to get their sides of the story, but what she
Speaker 1: realizes is that she needed to get to dojo. She
Speaker 1: visited with his family so many times and learned not
Speaker 1: to sit in Joe's chair every time she visited that
Speaker 1: was his as if they were waiting for him to
Speaker 1: return home. They also had a photo of him in
Speaker 1: the kitchen, and when Halen would bring something along like
Speaker 1: a bottle of wine, it was placed next to Joe
Speaker 1: as if he was waiting for his house guest. I'd
Speaker 1: like to end today with Helen talking about sitting with
Speaker 1: Maria Chinkway on the couch of their family home. They're
Speaker 1: watching Joe at a wedding that he was empt seeing.
Speaker 1: He looked somehow different from his companions at the wedding,
Speaker 1: with his rather harsh haircut that swept any kind of mullet,
Speaker 1: bared his long, slender neck, and stripped his cheeks of sideburns.
Speaker 1: How much of this was projecting with the knowledge I
Speaker 1: had a horrible fate. It was magic, thinking, sentimental. I
Speaker 1: tried to pull myself into line. But it wasn't the
Speaker 1: only person to be struck by Joe. An occasual moment
Speaker 1: of proceedings with the guests were attacking the dessert and
Speaker 1: nothing for more was in progress, where children were tearing
Speaker 1: about the dance floor among the drifting balloons, and Joe
Speaker 1: was just standing there alone behind the long bridle table,
Speaker 1: smiling benignly and looking around him with a calm, bright curiosity.
Speaker 1: The camera zoomed in discreetly and framed him front, arm,
Speaker 1: head and shoulders against the dark curtain. It had no
Speaker 1: reason to single him out in that moment, let alone
Speaker 1: focus on his agreeable face. But it found him, and
Speaker 1: it dwelt on him. It lingered intimately, and without he's
Speaker 1: ever realizing, for a good seven or eight seconds. His
Speaker 1: face was fine and sensitive, still faintly blurred look with
Speaker 1: youth not yet said in the hard lines of manhood.
Speaker 1: He looked like a man who was lightly poised on
Speaker 1: the very rim of the world he came from. I
Speaker 1: sat on his parents couch and watched him with my
Speaker 1: heart in my mouth. Maria too ceased her murmured commentary.
Speaker 1: We gazed in silence on our undefended son. That g
Speaker 1: is a devastating case of jo chinqua.
Speaker 2: Thanks. I hate it. Oh my god, We've never cried
Speaker 2: this much. Do you think we should take a break.