WEBVTT - Why has Joe Biden pardoned his son?

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily

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<v Speaker 1>ohs oh, now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 2>the third of December. I'm Zara, I'm Sam. Yesterday we

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<v Speaker 2>found out that outgoing US President Joe Biden will pardon

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<v Speaker 2>his son Hunter, with just a matter of weeks left

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<v Speaker 2>before there is a peaceful transfer of power. The President

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<v Speaker 2>said he was pardoning his son because of a miscarriage

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<v Speaker 2>of justice.

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<v Speaker 1>And part of the fun of working in the newsroom

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<v Speaker 1>is having the TVs on with the rolling twenty four

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<v Speaker 1>hour news channels. We've got some Australian channels, we've got

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<v Speaker 1>some overseas channels, and you literally hear a gasp when

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<v Speaker 1>something big breaks on TV.

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<v Speaker 2>That is what happened.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what happened with this story yesterday. I want to

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<v Speaker 1>get into why it was such a big story, but

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<v Speaker 1>before we do that, give me a sense of who

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<v Speaker 1>Hunter Biden is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I will just say at the top that I

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<v Speaker 2>know it's not usual etiquette to refer to a president

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<v Speaker 2>by their first name, but for the sake of being

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<v Speaker 2>able to distinguish son from father, I'll refer to President

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<v Speaker 2>Biden as Joe just once and Hunter as Hunter, just

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<v Speaker 2>so that we know who are.

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<v Speaker 1>To there's a lot of Biden's in this story, there is.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So we'll start with the personal life of Hunter Biden.

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<v Speaker 2>So Hunter is the child of Joe and Neelia Biden,

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<v Speaker 2>and Neelia Biden was Joe Biden's first wife. She tragically

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<v Speaker 2>died in a car crash, alongside one of the couple's

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<v Speaker 2>other children, Naomi. Hunter and his brother Bo survived that

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<v Speaker 2>car crash, and you know, there's been a lot spoken

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<v Speaker 2>about the impact of that crash on Joe Biden's life

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<v Speaker 2>and on the way that he has presented himselves, both

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<v Speaker 2>personally and of course in his professional life. Bo Biden,

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<v Speaker 2>who as I said, was the one who survived the

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<v Speaker 2>crash alongside Hunter. He died of brain cancer in twenty fifteen.

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<v Speaker 2>So of Joe and Neelia Biden's children, Hunter is the

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<v Speaker 2>only surviving child. Joe Biden did go on to have

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<v Speaker 2>another child though, with Jill Biden, who is his current wife.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's a bit about Hunter's life growing up. I

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<v Speaker 2>guess his personal life, and I think it needs to

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<v Speaker 2>be said that there was a lot of tragedy in

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<v Speaker 2>the lives of the Biden family, especially the early lives

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<v Speaker 2>of their family. In his twenty twenty one memoir Beautiful Things,

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<v Speaker 2>Hunter detailed his history of illicit substance and alcohol use,

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<v Speaker 2>as well as his mental ill health. Joe Biden has

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<v Speaker 2>also spoken about his son's addiction. He said, and I'll

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<v Speaker 2>just quote it directly here. So many families who have

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<v Speaker 2>had loved one's battle addiction understand the feeling of pride

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<v Speaker 2>seeing someone you love come out the other side and

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<v Speaker 2>be so strong and resilient in their recovery. So that

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<v Speaker 2>has been quite a big part of how the media

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<v Speaker 2>has spoken about and considered Hunter Biden in public life.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot has been written about and been spoken about

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<v Speaker 2>his battle with addiction.

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<v Speaker 1>And not just in the media, also in the political

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<v Speaker 1>sphere as well.

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<v Speaker 2>One hundred percent. So that's him personally. In terms of

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<v Speaker 2>his professional life, Hunter Biden is a lawyer and a businessman.

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<v Speaker 2>Early in his career he worked for a financial services company.

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<v Speaker 2>He then went on to co found a lobbying firm,

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<v Speaker 2>but he stepped away from that lobbying firm when his

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<v Speaker 2>dad became the vice presidential pick for Barack Obama.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so that's about two thousand and seven exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And then more recently, Hunter was on the board of

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<v Speaker 2>a Chinese equity fund, and the way that came about

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<v Speaker 2>again has been written about quite extensively because it came

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<v Speaker 2>about after Hunter Biden met the chief executive of this

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<v Speaker 2>company when he accompanied Joe Biden on an official visit

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<v Speaker 2>to China. So he was on the board of a

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<v Speaker 2>Chinese equity fund. Then later he was also on the

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<v Speaker 2>board of a Ukrainian industrial company, and this role has

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<v Speaker 2>had a lot of focus because at the time, Joe

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<v Speaker 2>Biden was playing a really significant, almost leading role in

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<v Speaker 2>the Obama administration's relationship with Ukraine at the same time

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<v Speaker 2>that his son was sitting on a Ukrainian board.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so we've talked about the personal life of Hunter Biden,

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<v Speaker 1>the professional life of Hunter Biden, but the reason he's

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<v Speaker 1>in the headlines today is he's been pardoned. What was

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<v Speaker 1>he pardoned from?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, it's a good question, and that's I

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<v Speaker 2>think a good way to set it up. So he

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<v Speaker 2>was pardoned because he had criminal convictions next to his name.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'll outline the two sets of charges and the

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<v Speaker 2>two convictions because they are different. And he's been pardoned

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<v Speaker 2>from both of them. When I refer to conviction, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>using that word specifically because in both cases Hunter Biden

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<v Speaker 2>has had a conviction. They're no longer just charges. He

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<v Speaker 2>has been convicted of these crimes. So we'll start first

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<v Speaker 2>with the charges that relate to guns. So in June,

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<v Speaker 2>a Delaware jury found that Hunter Biden lied about his

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<v Speaker 2>personal history of drug use when he bought a gun

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty eighteen. Now it's illegal in Delaware to buy

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<v Speaker 2>a gun under the influence of drugs, and this case

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<v Speaker 2>began back in twenty eighteen when federal prosecutors started investigating

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<v Speaker 2>him and they found that he had, like during a

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<v Speaker 2>background check, to purchase a gun in the state. And ultimately,

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<v Speaker 2>as I said, the jury found that he was guilty.

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<v Speaker 2>In that case. The charges carry up to twenty five

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<v Speaker 2>years imprisonment and around one point one million Australian dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>So serious jail time on the line here.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, And I mean, like, that's what could have happened,

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<v Speaker 2>not necessarily what would have happened. So after the verdict

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<v Speaker 2>in the gun case, the lead prosecutor said the combination

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<v Speaker 2>of guns and drugs made Hunter's conduct dangerous. So giving

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<v Speaker 2>a bit more color as to why and how this

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<v Speaker 2>case came about.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's case one. Now it's case.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So that's the gun case. I'm really simplifying here,

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<v Speaker 2>but gun case tax case. So in the tax case,

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<v Speaker 2>Hunter pleaded guilty to this. It was in September of

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<v Speaker 2>this year, so it didn't end up having to go

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<v Speaker 2>before a jury because he pleaded guilty. At the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Prosecutors accused Hunter of spending one point four million US

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<v Speaker 2>dollars between twenty sixteen and twenty nineteen on quote an

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<v Speaker 2>extravagant lifestyle rather than paying his.

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<v Speaker 1>Tax bills, so essentially tax evasion exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And in this case, the judge said that Hunter faces

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<v Speaker 2>a maximum penalty of fifteen years in prison and again

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<v Speaker 2>around a million dollars in fines.

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<v Speaker 1>So you've got these two cases, the gun case, in

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<v Speaker 1>the tax case, he was found guilty. In the gun case,

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<v Speaker 1>he pleaded guilty tax case. So two convictions, two convictions

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<v Speaker 1>and two quite hefty sentences potentially in front of him.

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<v Speaker 1>But he hasn't been sentenced saturally the case, right.

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<v Speaker 2>No, he hasn't. So he was due to be sentenced

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<v Speaker 2>for both sets of convictions this month and.

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<v Speaker 3>Then and that's where we kind of get to what

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<v Speaker 3>we're talking about today. Joe Biden intervened, and so yesterday

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<v Speaker 3>Joe Biden pardoned his son before he could be sentenced.

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<v Speaker 3>R What does it mean when a president pardons someone?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, So, the ability to pardon people convicted of federal

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<v Speaker 2>crimes is such a fascinating element of what the US

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<v Speaker 2>president can do and what powers the US president has.

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<v Speaker 2>I was going to say he and that would have

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<v Speaker 2>also been accurate. What he has. It's like they have

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<v Speaker 2>power to undo a court's decision to find someone guilty,

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<v Speaker 2>even decades after the fact. It's also a uniquely American thing.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't have it in Australia. I turned to you

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<v Speaker 2>at our desk yesterday and I said, I have a

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<v Speaker 2>silly question, can this happen in Australia, to which you

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<v Speaker 2>said no.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's one of the real quirks of the American

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<v Speaker 1>system is how intertwined the justice system and the president

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<v Speaker 1>can be. I mean the president appoints judges as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, exactly. So the power, as you just intimated,

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<v Speaker 2>the power to pardon is granted to the president by

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<v Speaker 2>the Constitution, and it's a fairly broad power. It is

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<v Speaker 2>important to note that almost every president has pardoned at

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<v Speaker 2>least someone one person in their time in office, for

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<v Speaker 2>better or for worse. We're not going to pass judgment

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<v Speaker 2>on that. To give you a few examples, Bill Clinton

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<v Speaker 2>used the presidential pardon to clear his brother. So his

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<v Speaker 2>brother Roger had a conviction for cocaine possession and Bill

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<v Speaker 2>Clinton intervened there. Gerald Ford cleared Richard Nixon's name of corruption,

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<v Speaker 2>and even George Washington pardoned a few men convict for

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<v Speaker 2>their role in a rebellion against taxes in the seventeen nineties.

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<v Speaker 2>So pardoning is not, by any means a new or

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<v Speaker 2>novel concept. It has been done many, many times before.

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<v Speaker 1>And it sounds like there's a variety of reasons why

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<v Speaker 1>a president would offer a pardon to somebody. Yesterday we

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<v Speaker 1>got a statement from Joe Biden about why he pardoned Hunter.

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<v Speaker 1>What did he say?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So he said that he was pardoning Hunter because

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<v Speaker 2>he believed that the Hunter had been treated differently as

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<v Speaker 2>the president's son, so.

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<v Speaker 1>Essentially that the justice system hadn't quite worked.

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<v Speaker 2>As right and that it had been biased due to

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<v Speaker 2>Hunter's family connections to the president. He said, no reasonable

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<v Speaker 2>person who looks at the facts of Hunter's cases can

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<v Speaker 2>reach any other conclusion than Hunter was singled out only

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<v Speaker 2>because he was my son, and that is wrong. I

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<v Speaker 2>believe in the justice system, but as I have wrestled

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<v Speaker 2>with this, I also believe raw politics has infected this

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<v Speaker 2>process and it led to a miscarriage of justice. The

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<v Speaker 2>President used the tax case as an example, and he

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<v Speaker 2>said that that was a really clear case of Hunter

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<v Speaker 2>Biden being treated differently. He said, those who were late

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<v Speaker 2>paying their taxes because of serious addictions but paid them

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<v Speaker 2>back subsequently with interest and penalties are typically given non

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<v Speaker 2>criminal resolutions, and of course we know that's not what

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<v Speaker 2>happened in Hunter Biden's case. I do just want to

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<v Speaker 2>mention something. Joe Biden had previously said that he wouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>do this, and I think that's really significant. So Joe

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<v Speaker 2>Biden had, on various occasions both him and his administration,

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<v Speaker 2>had made clear that he would not pardon his son.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember this coming up as early as the presidential

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<v Speaker 1>debate when Joe Biden was attempting to win office. This

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<v Speaker 1>has been a life political issue for many, many years.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I mean, if you'd say it started, then

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<v Speaker 2>it's been as recently as last month, when the White

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<v Speaker 2>House Press Secretary was asked explicitly if this would be

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<v Speaker 2>happening because we know that the term of office is

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<v Speaker 2>almost up, and she said, We've been asked this question

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<v Speaker 2>multiple times. Our answer stands, which is no. But that

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<v Speaker 2>was obviously not to be.

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<v Speaker 1>And so there are clearly a few times factors here.

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<v Speaker 1>One is that the sentencing was coming up in a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of weeks for these cases. The second is that

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<v Speaker 1>the inauguration for Donald Trump is on January the twentieth.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you've got to make sure that there's some

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<v Speaker 1>runway into that to do the pardons you want to do.

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<v Speaker 1>One question, though, I think a lot of us have

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<v Speaker 1>regarding Donald Trump, is whether he can now overturn that party,

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<v Speaker 1>Whether his arrival into the oval office means that the

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<v Speaker 1>whole thing can be reversed. Can that happen?

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<v Speaker 2>It's a short answer, and the short answer is no. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>So pardons can't be reversed. So Joe Biden's decision will

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<v Speaker 2>stand no matter who is in power. And that's significant

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<v Speaker 2>because we know that Donald Trump has said a lot

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<v Speaker 2>about Hunter Biden a lot of the campaign, at least

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<v Speaker 2>when Joe Biden was his opponent focused on Hunter Biden

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<v Speaker 2>and Donald Trump really sticking it to Joe Biden about

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<v Speaker 2>the criminal convictions that his son had. I do just

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<v Speaker 2>want to end on a tidbit though, which I thought

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<v Speaker 2>was interesting. I was looking up who Donald Trump pardoned,

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<v Speaker 2>just because you know, we have an incoming president and

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<v Speaker 2>during his time in office, Donald Trump, among others, pardoned

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<v Speaker 2>Charles Kushner, who is the father of his son in law.

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<v Speaker 2>Follow me yep with Jared So Jared is married to Ivanka,

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<v Speaker 2>his daughter and Jared's father. Charles was convicted of illegal

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<v Speaker 2>campaign contributions, tax evasion, and witness tampering. He was pardoned

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<v Speaker 2>by Donald Trump. It was after the fact, he'd already

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<v Speaker 2>served his sentence. It was more just to clear the air.

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<v Speaker 2>And over the weekend we found out that Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 2>has now nominated Kushner as the US ambassador to France.

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<v Speaker 1>On the note of Donald Trump, it's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>interesting to see how he responded this. He has a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of potential pardons on his horizon. There's been a

0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:43.439
<v Speaker 1>number of convictions of members of his team and himself

0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.000
<v Speaker 1>since he's been in office. Last and that inauguration. As

0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:48.320
<v Speaker 1>I said is on the twentieth of.

0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:52.280
<v Speaker 2>January, exactly right. A really interesting quirk of the US

0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:53.360
<v Speaker 2>presidential system.

0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:55.400
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for that, Zara, and thank you for joining us

0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:57.240
<v Speaker 1>on the Daily os this morning. We're going to be

0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:00.400
<v Speaker 1>back in your ears this afternoon with some news headline.

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<v Speaker 3>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:22.720
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