1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Already and this is the daily This is the Daily 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: ohs oh, now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday, 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 2: the twenty second of November. 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: I'm Zara, I'm Nandini. 6 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 3: Around a million Sydney siders, myself included. We're preparing for 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 3: major disruptions today after the Rail, Tram and Bus Union 8 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 3: or the RTBU, announced train workers were going on strike 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 3: until Sunday morning. 10 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:35,319 Speaker 1: Businesses, schools and. 11 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 3: Communities across Sydney and New South Wales had made contingency 12 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 3: plans to prepare for a shutdown of train services. However, 13 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 3: the union has now reached an agreement with the state 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 3: government after multiple rounds of negotiations. 15 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: Nandini, I want to go back to tda's routes this morning, 16 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: and tda's routes are to step back from a story 17 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: or from a head deadline and just explain a bit 18 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 2: more of the terms the context that people need to know. 19 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 2: And this is one of those stories where I really 20 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: want to do that because we talk about strikes and 21 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 2: industrial actions so often. You know, I would have run 22 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 2: out of fingers counting the number of times that we 23 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 2: have spoken about it on this pod. But I don't 24 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: know that we've ever spent the time actually exploring what 25 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: a strike is and why it happens in the first place. 26 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 2: So that's what I really want to get into today. 27 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 2: I want to start really really basic with you here. 28 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: Can we strip it all back and just start with 29 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: why do strikes happen in the first place. 30 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 3: The most common reason we have a strike occur is 31 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:42,199 Speaker 3: pay disputes. So workers or the union that represents workers, 32 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 3: we'll go in to unions in a moment. 33 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 2: Okay, put a pin in that. 34 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, but they will often call for better wages or 35 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 3: working conditions. Depending on the sector, workers might strike for 36 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 3: better overtime pay or to have more say on when 37 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 3: they're shifted to work and maybe that could help them 38 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 3: bounce that with personal life. 39 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: This is something we've seen in nurse Put another pin 40 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: in that. 41 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: So essentially they are requesting more, whether that be pay 42 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 2: or rites or whatever. It is. Like, there is a 43 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: request there from the employees to the employer. But you 44 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 2: said there that they can go on strike for these things. 45 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,119 Speaker 2: When someone says go on strike, like, what does that 46 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 2: actually mean? 47 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 3: So we'll often hear strikes being called industrial action as well. 48 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 3: Day to day will notice a strike happen because people 49 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 3: walk off the job, they don't show up to work, 50 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 3: and that could involve train worker is not showing up 51 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 3: to the train stations so trains aren't running. 52 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. So that's like a really clear obvious example of 53 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 2: a strike. 54 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 55 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 3: And when that strike is occurring, workers often are instead 56 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 3: protesting or rallying or showing up to demonstrations to renew 57 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,679 Speaker 3: their calls to the government or to their employer. 58 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 2: But that's only one version of a strike, right, Like 59 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: there can be other forms of industrial action. What are they? 60 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 3: It can include really simple things like workers wearing campaign 61 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 3: shirts or wearing badges around their workplace with a particular slogan. 62 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 3: For instance, with nurses and midwives in New South Wales, 63 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 3: they had a campaign that they called value Us and 64 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 3: it's something that they're trying to campaign about. I'm going 65 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 3: to use the Rail, train and Bus union as an 66 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 3: example because this is one that we've been talking about 67 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 3: all week and we've been seeing in the news and 68 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 3: they've been taking industrial action for months. And this could 69 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 3: even include things like boundaries. They did this thing where 70 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 3: they would have to leave at least thirty seconds between 71 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 3: every phone call to create delays, or even running a 72 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,239 Speaker 3: train every second service, meaning that you have to wait 73 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 3: longer between your trains. You might have noticed some train 74 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 3: workers wearing shirts around stations. You might not have, but 75 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 3: these strikes that are complete work stoppages are the ones 76 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 3: that we really take notice of you as an average person. 77 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: Okay, So they're going out there and they're asking for 78 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: changes to be made for workers in whatever specific industry 79 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: we're talking about. One of the things, and it might 80 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 2: be a silly question, but one of the things that 81 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 2: comes up when I read these stories is what happens 82 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 2: to an employee who or a worker who walks off 83 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: the job and who you know doesn't show up to work. 84 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 2: What happens to those people? Do they get in trouble 85 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: at work? 86 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 3: Well, firstly, I wanted to say there are no silly questions. 87 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 2: Thank you, Andthony, you can buy our book No Silly 88 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 2: Questions available today. 89 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 3: But this is where unions come into play. So you've 90 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 3: probably heard of a bunch of different unions in the news. 91 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 3: We've mentioned the RTBU today. 92 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 2: Can you just pause there? What is a union? 93 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 3: So a union is a body that represents workers. Okay, 94 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 3: it's often their voice it's like the middleman that talks 95 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 3: between the employees and the employer to advocate for better 96 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 3: working rights conditions or whatever they're asking for. 97 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: And so if we use media as an example, that 98 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,679 Speaker 2: MEAA is the Media Industries union, but there's a different 99 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 2: one for all sorts of industries. 100 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 3: Right, every industry has their own union. So strikes are 101 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 3: organized by the union, and the workers who take part 102 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 3: in strikes are union members. Being a union member usually 103 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 3: involves paying a membership fee. It could be weekly, monthly, annually, 104 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 3: depending on the union. And the idea is that the 105 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 3: union protects you and allows. 106 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: You to go on strike. 107 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 3: So you get certain protections by being a union member. 108 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 3: So let's see's an example of you and Azara. 109 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: Let's say we're both nurses. We're not. 110 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 3: For this example, we are and Zara, you're a union 111 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 3: member and I'm not, and the Nurses and Midwives Association, 112 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 3: which is our union, they're going on strike. You could 113 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 3: go on strike and be protected by it, but because 114 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 3: I'm not a union member, there is an expectation for 115 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 3: me to still be at work. 116 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 2: Okay, I understand. So the people who are going on 117 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: strike are part of a union and therefore their employer 118 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: can't come down on them for not being at work 119 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 2: versus someone who's not part of a union, and that 120 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 2: would be a very different response. 121 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: Exactly. 122 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 2: We'll be back with the deep dive after this quick 123 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 2: note from our sponsor. You refer to the union there 124 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 2: as almost the middleman. Can you just go into that 125 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 2: a bit further, the middleman between who and why. 126 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 3: So we're going to be talking a lot about the 127 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 3: public sector today, but I want to note that unions 128 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 3: exist also in the private sector. So for instance, Coles 129 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,679 Speaker 3: and Woowarts they have a retail and fast food workers union. 130 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 3: But we're going to be touching a lot on government 131 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 3: or public jobs. So the union being the middleman, represents 132 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 3: the workers or employees. That's your nurses, your police officers, 133 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 3: your teachers. And then on the other side is the 134 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 3: government or if we're not in the public sector, it 135 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 3: would be the holes or. 136 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: Will work, so the employer and so the government is 137 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 2: involved because they are the ones that are setting the wages, 138 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 2: for example, for the public sector. 139 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 3: Exactly, I'm going to use an example to make this 140 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 3: make sense. 141 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 2: Okay, great, We're. 142 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 3: Going to look at the New South Wales nurses and 143 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 3: midwives Association because they've been striking for months now and 144 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 3: it really took off after over in Victoria, nurses and 145 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 3: midwives got a pay rise of twenty eight percent over 146 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 3: four years. Now when it comes to the New South 147 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 3: Wales nurses and midwives, they've been asking the state government 148 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 3: for a fifteen percent pay increase alongside other working conditions 149 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 3: and overtime rights. But the main thing we're looking at 150 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 3: here is the pay increase. So then what happens is 151 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 3: as a back and forth between the state government and 152 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 3: the union representatives that represent the workers. This is where 153 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 3: they're trying to negotiate an agreement in terms of the 154 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 3: best pay outcome that the government is happy with and 155 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 3: that the union and the workers are. So the New 156 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 3: South Wales government came back with an offer of ten 157 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 3: point five percent over a three year period. 158 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: Okay, so that's not what they had asked for. 159 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 3: No, they asked for fifteen percent. So the union takes 160 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 3: this government offer back to their members and consults with them. 161 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 3: Sometimes it gets put to a vote, other times it 162 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 3: might be really clear that they don't want to agree 163 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 3: with the government, and in the case of the New 164 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 3: South Wales nurses and midwives they did not reach an 165 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 3: agreement and that is when they took further strike action. 166 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 2: Okay, understood, So that's still a live I guess negotiation. 167 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: There hasn't been a conclusion that's been reached, or at 168 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 2: least not one that either side is happy with. Do 169 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 2: we have any recent examples when negotiations were successful, just 170 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 2: I guess to prove the point of how this can 171 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 2: turn out a bit differently. 172 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, So just this month, New South Wales police were 173 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 3: offered a pay rise of up to thirty nine percent 174 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 3: over a four year period from the New South Wales government. Now, 175 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 3: mind you, not all officers received the thirty nine percent. 176 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 3: It sort of depends on where in the ranks they 177 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 3: stand and how long they've been serving in the force. 178 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 3: They were also offered a couple other bonuses, such as 179 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 3: retention payments, to encourage police officers to stay in the 180 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 3: force for longer. When the government made this offer, the 181 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 3: president of the police union basically made a video announcement 182 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 3: explaining what the offer that the government provided, and it 183 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 3: also said that it endorsed this offer. It advised its 184 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 3: union members that they think this is a good offer, 185 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 3: and they basically said that we think it's the best 186 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 3: we can get yep. And that offer from the government 187 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 3: then gets put to a vote to its union members 188 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 3: on whether or not they want to agree. 189 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 2: Okay, and in that situation it was agreed too. 190 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 1: Yeah. 191 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 3: And of course with the New South Wales Rail, Tram 192 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 3: and Bus union it's now also been successful. The looming 193 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 3: threat of no train services for over two days across 194 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 3: New South Wales has been just enough for the state 195 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 3: government to reach an agreement with the union YEP. Currently 196 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 3: the understanding is that strikes have been postponed and. 197 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: Do we have any idea what's been agreed to in 198 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 2: order to I guess postpone those strikes and that shutdown 199 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 2: of the rail system. 200 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: So for this we need a little bit of context. 201 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 3: The Rail, Train and Bus union has been calling for 202 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 3: twenty four hour train services over weekends. Now this is 203 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 3: pretty unusual because workers often strike. 204 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: When they want to work less. 205 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, but in this case they're actually advocating for twenty 206 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 3: four hour services over the weekend. Initially, the state's transport minister, 207 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 3: that's Joe Halen, said that twenty four hour train services 208 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 3: would eventually lead to the failure of our rail network. However, 209 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 3: now that New South Wales Premier Chris Mins has agreed 210 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 3: to let trains run for twenty four hours over the weekend. 211 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: The strikes have been postponed. 212 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 2: So people listening this morning will be able to catch 213 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 2: a train as normal and as. 214 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: Planned exactly, and also over Saturday. 215 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's important to note that these strikes haven't 216 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,839 Speaker 3: been outright canceled. It's not completely off the table because 217 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 3: there are still details that the union and the government 218 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 3: need to iron out, and so if another disagreement does 219 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 3: come up and negotiations fail, we could see another potential strike. 220 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: It's really interesting and I think one of those examples 221 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 2: we're just stepping back and trying to understand a bit 222 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 2: of the jargon that sits behind the story is actually 223 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 2: really helpful, and I know it will help me when 224 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 2: I'm reading stories about other strikes, because as you said, 225 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 2: there are so many that are still live that haven't 226 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 2: been resolved yet. So thank you for that, Mandini, you're worried, 227 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 2: and thank you for joining us for another week of 228 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 2: the Daily OS that wraps up up a big week 229 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 2: of news. We will be back again this afternoon with 230 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 2: your day's headlines, but until then, have a great day. 231 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 232 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: Bungelung Caalcuton woman from Gadighl country. 233 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 3: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on 234 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 3: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to 235 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 3: all Aboriginal and Torres Strait island and nations. 236 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, 237 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: both past and present.