1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: Well, we've been talking quite a bit this morning about 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: the Chief Minister pitching the Northern Territory as the answer 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: to some of the biggest questions the country's facing during 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 1: her first speech at the National Press Club, so that 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: she was in canber obviously she's there for the Facing 6 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: North event, but it is the first time that we've 7 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 1: seen her front the National Press Club and speak, and 8 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: she was touting the territory government's goal of achieving that 9 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: forty billion dollar economy as well by twenty thirty. 10 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 2: Now joining me on the line to talk a little. 11 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: Bit more about this is Professor Rolf Gerretson from Charles 12 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: Darwin University. Professor Gerretson, good to have you on the 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: show this morning. 14 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 3: Okay, nice to talk to you again. 15 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 2: Lovely to speak to you. 16 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 3: Now. 17 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 2: What was your reaction to the Chief's address yesterday. 18 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 3: I think you could summon up as a wry smile. 19 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 3: You could call it aspirational universe commershy, Yeah. 20 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 2: It seemed a bit that way. 21 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: I felt, professor like she was, you know, she was 22 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: really trying to drum up the support of the territory 23 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: and h and you know, be territory proud. But I 24 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: guess that some of us were struggling a bit to 25 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: get on that journey. 26 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I can understand. The territory has a well, 27 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 3: as you know, even structurally, it has a looming budget problem, 28 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 3: and it's going to be exacerbated by the fact that 29 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 3: several of our large minds that deliver revenues and projects 30 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 3: that deliver revenues to the territory government, they're going to 31 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 3: be closing down over the last decades, you know, the 32 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 3: Grout Island Magnique's Mind for instance, and the walk Side 33 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 3: a Weeper. So the territory has an even bigger budgety, 34 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 3: a future budgetary problem than we at present realized. So 35 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 3: she's desperately trying, if you like, spur along the gas 36 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 3: development because that will provide budget revenues. I mean, and 37 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 3: that is really what is behind it. 38 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 2: So getting ahead of the cliff, you might say. 39 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, which from a purely economic point of view 40 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 3: is obviously very sensible. 41 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 2: Now yeah, sorry you continue, Well. 42 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 3: I was going to say, you don't want a nasty 43 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 3: surprise in five years time. So she can get minds 44 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 3: and development going sooner rather than later, those revenues will 45 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 3: flow in and substitute for the manganese and bok size. 46 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: And professor taking that into account, and then also obviously 47 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,839 Speaker 1: looking at the fact that the Northern Territory government does 48 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: continue to talk about achieving that forty billion dollar economy 49 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: by twenty thirty. 50 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: I mean, do you think that that's achievable. 51 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 3: I think there are supply bottlenecks that afflict the territory, 52 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 3: transportation and labor principally, so you know, virtually everything is delayed. 53 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 3: I mean, there's very few large projects are coming on 54 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 3: time because of the you can't get the skill trades people, 55 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 3: you can't you know, you can't get gear up from 56 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 3: down south, et cetera, et cetera, So that those supply 57 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 3: bottle necks will lead to delay. So I'm pessimistic about 58 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 3: any sort of timeline that says, you know, we're going 59 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 3: to finish the ship lift in twelve months, and we're 60 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 3: going to do this, and we the Middle Arm is 61 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 3: going to be done in the like six months and whatever. 62 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 3: So I think the usual territory factors will impede progress. 63 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: Now the you know sometimes well I think quite often, 64 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: I guess we talk about red tape, page tape, green tape, 65 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: all those kinds of things. 66 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: Is that part of what's holding us back. 67 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 3: Well, the territory undoubtedly has too many public servants who 68 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 3: are administrators, supervisors and managers and not actually doing anything. Yeah, 69 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 3: So that leads to delay because you've got too many 70 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 3: layers in the bureaucracy, so that if you know, some 71 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 3: businessman comes with a proposal, it can take eighteen months 72 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 3: or two years to get the proposal, you know, through 73 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:34,239 Speaker 3: all the bureaucratic hurdles. So that is a real problem. 74 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 3: But given that Darwn is essentially a public service town 75 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: and the public servants control the vote in the northern suburbs, 76 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 3: I can't see that changing very quickly. 77 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: Yeah right, Hey, tell me what did you make of 78 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: the Chief Minister well, taking on the teals and the trolls. 79 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 3: I think that made good politics back home, didn't Yeah? 80 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 2: I think so. 81 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 3: Well. 82 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 2: I think that was the a wasn't it? 83 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 3: The target audience wasn't if you liked the audience in 84 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 3: the on the Eastern Seaboards seas, Yeah, the audience was down. 85 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. 86 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: I mean it's fired up some of those that are 87 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: opposed to, you know, to the project at Middle Arm. 88 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: It's fired up, you know, some of the environmentalists. I 89 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: suppose yeah, sorry, you go. 90 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 3: Well, I'm going to say, yeah, that that is I 91 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 3: mean when I say a planet, it was the target 92 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 3: audience was done and that also included the environmentalists who 93 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 3: of course don't like middle Arm or cracking. 94 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: Professor, how big an impact do you think or like, 95 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: how with middle arm? You know she's talking about how 96 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: how vitally it's sort of needed not only for us 97 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: in the Northern Territory but right across the nation. What 98 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 1: do you tell, well, like, what is your take on 99 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: middle arm and and is it really a key to 100 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: the Northern territories prosperity. 101 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 3: Well, it's what I call the dominant narrative in territory 102 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 3: economic development, which is projectism. You know, there's always a 103 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 3: pressure on the government to have some big project that's 104 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 3: going to you know, due up the economy, and so 105 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 3: middle Arm is the latest. You know, we've had a 106 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 3: history of this, the Fort, the Darwin Waterfront project, and 107 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 3: you know it's going back right back to the both 108 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,679 Speaker 3: the hotel, back in the early years of self government. 109 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 3: So the territory government there is some political imperitive for 110 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 3: the territory government to have a large project and little 111 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 3: arm is the current large project. 112 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 2: Well, we'll have to wait and see. 113 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: Really, you know, what does get going, how quickly it 114 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: gets going, and what kind of impact it's going to 115 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: have for the territory. 116 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 2: I spise, whyon't. 117 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 3: We Well, we can't do anything else, so we have 118 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 3: the way. 119 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 1: That's right, Professor Rolf Garretts, and I really appreciate your 120 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: time this morning. 121 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 2: Thank you so very much for having a chat with me. 122 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 3: Always a pleasure. 123 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 2: Kate, thank you you too.