Speaker 1: It's so sad. Like one of my favorite quotes is,
Speaker 1: doubt kills the more dreams than failure ever will. It's
Speaker 1: so sad to think of how many dreams never made it,
Speaker 1: not because the actual thing was too hard to do,
Speaker 1: because the person's doubt took them out of it before
Speaker 1: they got started. There's so many sliding doors moments in
Speaker 1: my life where things could have gone one way or
Speaker 1: another without you know, like there's such a tiny chance
Speaker 1: that it would have gone one way or the other.
Speaker 1: And that was obviously the very first one that I
Speaker 1: had no consciousness of at the time and no appreciation
Speaker 1: of until gosh, I mean maybe my teen is when
Speaker 1: I was like, oh god, I could have actually ended
Speaker 1: up living in what was a third world country at
Speaker 1: the time and not having any of these opportunities. So
Speaker 1: that's made me always instilled a real sense of gratitude
Speaker 1: and appreciation and an attitude of like makes the most
Speaker 1: of everything because you almost didn't have it, or you
Speaker 1: could have not had it.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Outspoken. Today, we have a real
Speaker 2: treat for anyone looking for some inspo. We're joined by
Speaker 2: the creative, funny, talented, and gorgeous Sarah Holloway, who's now
Speaker 2: known as Sarah Davidson after getting married just two months ago.
Speaker 2: Sarah is a former lawyer turned co founder of Green
Speaker 2: Tea Empire, Matcha Maiden and Matcha Milk Bar. She also
Speaker 2: runs a hugely popular podcast, Sees the Ya. Sarah, thank
Speaker 2: you so much for joining us. We hear you've had
Speaker 2: obviously a huge twenty nineteen. First congrats you've joined us
Speaker 2: in the thirty club and you've.
Speaker 1: Also the best club, and you've.
Speaker 2: Also gotten married to your partner of ten years. Can
Speaker 2: you tell us about the big day?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, yes, it's still quite fresh in the memory.
Speaker 1: I was just looking back today at how long it's been.
Speaker 1: It's been two months officially of married life, and yeah,
Speaker 1: we had the most perfect day. It was absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 1: I think we made a very conscious decision right at
Speaker 1: the beginning, Like I'm a little bit of a like
Speaker 1: ocd A type personality at the best of time, so
Speaker 1: I had to make a decision at the very beginning
Speaker 1: that if anything was going to be too stressful, we
Speaker 1: were going to cut it. We just wanted it to
Speaker 1: be an amazing, happy, fun party with you know, no
Speaker 1: bridezilla no stressing and just wanted everyone to have the
Speaker 1: best time and it was so so beautiful.
Speaker 2: Now, for those who don't know, you are a massive
Speaker 2: fan of punts, and I love the fact that you
Speaker 2: managed to incorporate the saying MATCHA made in Heaven into
Speaker 2: your wedding. Was that important for you to get in?
Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely. I think we just wanted to inject as
Speaker 1: much of our personality as we could into it. And
Speaker 1: also like those were the things that kind of made it,
Speaker 1: made us not take it too seriously and just inject
Speaker 1: a bit of fun. And you know, at the whole
Speaker 1: five past five years, so half our relationship has been
Speaker 1: on the match of mission and building our business together
Speaker 1: or both our MATCHA based businesses together. So we just
Speaker 1: thought that was a really nice way to honor a
Speaker 1: big part of our story. And it's a pun that
Speaker 1: is perfect for a wedding because you know you're making
Speaker 1: the perfect match. And then we actually got a big
Speaker 1: neon sign as well. And neither of our names worked
Speaker 1: very well for any other kind of marriage, Hasha, you
Speaker 1: know how some people's names work really well. So we're like, oh,
Speaker 1: well that can be our That's He's good.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, you said you would try not
Speaker 2: to make it too stressful stressful, but did you feel
Speaker 2: any pressure to have it be sort of an instagram
Speaker 2: worthy wedding? I suppose both of you having large followings.
Speaker 1: I think I think we might have, like at the
Speaker 1: very very beginning, I think we probably thought about that,
Speaker 1: but we didn't have I mean, we're like, you know,
Speaker 1: F grade celebrities at the best like best case scenario,
Speaker 1: so we didn't have the pressures that some people do
Speaker 1: if they know they've got a magazine deal or something
Speaker 1: like that. It probably just runs for our heads kind
Speaker 1: of in the background that we might have, you know,
Speaker 1: a few people interested in what it looked like, but
Speaker 1: in the end, most of the people who we knew
Speaker 1: would be our guests were family and friends who either
Speaker 1: don't have Instagram, haven't heard of it, or you know,
Speaker 1: there were very very few people there who actually kind
Speaker 1: of understand that world, so we knew it wouldn't be
Speaker 1: sort of an instagramm evetting just by the guests and stuff.
Speaker 1: So I think that took a lot of the pressure out.
Speaker 1: And when we're you know, our family selves, like both
Speaker 1: our families are from the countryside, we go back to
Speaker 1: very basic, like Bogan people. So we definitely wanted it
Speaker 1: to be really beautiful and aesthetic, and we knew it
Speaker 1: also had amazing, amazing photographers, but it wasn't kind of
Speaker 1: a pressure. I don't think we made any decisions based
Speaker 1: on that. It was more just what we wanted it
Speaker 1: to look and feel like. And you know, we went
Speaker 1: to a venue that we could have chosen something very
Speaker 1: minimal and like black and white and monochrome, but we
Speaker 1: went something that felt really homely and much more greenery,
Speaker 1: and that matched the whole kind of match of things.
Speaker 1: So I think it was really good that we had
Speaker 1: a big chat at the beginning about what was important
Speaker 1: to us and what wasn't. And I think you can
Speaker 1: get totally carried away in the wedding process and missed
Speaker 1: the fun parts or the loved up, you know, spontaneous,
Speaker 1: relaxed parts. So I'm so glad we made an intention
Speaker 1: at the beginning to not get carried away, and then
Speaker 1: it ended up just being the best time. Like every
Speaker 1: supplier has just constantly was like, can you be a
Speaker 1: little bit more stressed because we're just not sure what
Speaker 1: you want? Because we were so easy, I was like whatever,
Speaker 1: and they're like, I'm a little bit more direction.
Speaker 3: So you definitely weren't a bridezill of it.
Speaker 1: No, we were like, yeah, the total opposite. We gave
Speaker 1: our suppliers, you know, maybe a color scheme and like
Speaker 1: a few reference pictures and then after that we're like, okay,
Speaker 1: you do it. We trust you, and they were like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's pressure. But we you know, we really trusted that.
Speaker 1: We chose them because they were amazing, and we had
Speaker 1: a couple of key things like the neon sign. We
Speaker 1: really wanted to have the hashtag, you know, as a
Speaker 1: big feature, but everything else was just whatever. I'm like,
Speaker 1: we chose all the default cutlery, the default linen, like
Speaker 1: everything was just the kind of basic option. And I
Speaker 1: don't think anyone remembers any of that anyway. So yeah,
Speaker 1: we were so happy.
Speaker 2: Now, of course, you are the founder of Tea Empire,
Speaker 2: Matcha Maiden, and Matcha Milk Bar, but you also run
Speaker 2: an incredible podcast, ses Thea. Now you like to start
Speaker 2: every episode by asking guests what's the most down to
Speaker 2: earth thing about them, So we'd love to finally find
Speaker 2: that out about you.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh I always get to ask it
Speaker 1: brushes off. Oh my gosh, I think probably my bluepoons,
Speaker 1: the fact that I have a lot of chins at
Speaker 1: certain angles, the fact that I love to celebrate those chins.
Speaker 1: There's so much that's down to earth about me, and
Speaker 1: I think because you know, most of the start of
Speaker 1: my life and the start of my career was a
Speaker 1: very non fish your non fancy, non instagram the kind
Speaker 1: of world. It still feels a little bit new to
Speaker 1: me to be in a more glossy, fancy kind of
Speaker 1: kind of lifestyle. So really, when we're not at events,
Speaker 1: or when we're not doing outward facing client things or
Speaker 1: podcasts or event or you know, live events or whatever,
Speaker 1: it is that I'm always just in my quondous pajamas
Speaker 1: with no makeup on. I like, I am a big
Speaker 1: nose picker, like have very small eyes when I don't
Speaker 1: wear eyemaker. I love, yeah, all the bloopoos. Every time
Speaker 1: we do a professional photo shoot. I've made it a
Speaker 1: little a little personal kind of way to keep myself
Speaker 1: grounded that, you know, when I've been posting too many
Speaker 1: pretty photos with lots of makeup at an event with
Speaker 1: professional lighting and all that stuff, I have to cancel
Speaker 1: it out. With like the ugliest photos that I can
Speaker 1: possibly do, and they, yeah, they keep me really down
Speaker 1: to earth. So there's like a whole highlight on my
Speaker 1: Instagram of them. If you ever just want to have
Speaker 1: a chuckle, I love that.
Speaker 2: You do that, because so much of Instagram is it's
Speaker 2: just so fake, and I know it does make people
Speaker 2: feel bad about themselves. Do you wish that more people
Speaker 2: on Instagram did their own bloopers?
Speaker 1: Real? Absolutely? I think it's I don't it's funny. I
Speaker 1: think that for a lot of in a lot of cases,
Speaker 1: it can be really fake and quite convoluted, and people
Speaker 1: are really only choosing to put certain things out there
Speaker 1: for other people. It might not necessarily be that they're
Speaker 1: being fake. It's just that they don't think to post
Speaker 1: those other moments. They don't really they might not even
Speaker 1: know how useful it can be to other people. So
Speaker 1: I think it would be awesome for more people to
Speaker 1: understand how good that can be for other people. Because
Speaker 1: I started doing it because I knew how much it
Speaker 1: reassured me when other people who seemed to be consistently
Speaker 1: immaculately groomed and looking perfectly styled, and you know, you
Speaker 1: forget that in between those moments there's a lot of
Speaker 1: real stuff, and when they show it, it just makes
Speaker 1: you feel not better about yourself because they look ugly
Speaker 1: or anything, but just more like human. It makes me
Speaker 1: realize we're all human, we all have those moments. And
Speaker 1: it also helped me feel less uncomfortable about the fact
Speaker 1: that I was only posting the highlight moments. I just
Speaker 1: felt a little bit like my relationship with the platform
Speaker 1: feels awkward when I don't feel like I'm being completely
Speaker 1: rounded in what I'm showing. And it is hard because
Speaker 1: sometimes in your downtime you don't feel like taking a photo.
Speaker 1: That's just part of the behavior. But since I've started
Speaker 1: making an effort to show all of the side, including
Speaker 1: the bits in between, I've had such wonderful feedback from
Speaker 1: other people who have like big following, small followings, who
Speaker 1: are on the platform a lot, who aren't on the
Speaker 1: platform a lot. And it's also made me personally feel
Speaker 1: like you almost take the pressure off yourself as well
Speaker 1: to be so perfectly manicured and groomed all the time,
Speaker 1: because once you know people have seen the worst photo
Speaker 1: of you in the world, you're like everything else is
Speaker 1: a bonus, So it kind of also improved my own
Speaker 1: relationship with the whole world because it's a heart you know,
Speaker 1: it's a new world. It's a hard environment to get
Speaker 1: comfortable with, and I think if more people were willing
Speaker 1: to show some of the bits that they might otherwise
Speaker 1: have been scared of showing, it will encourage everyone to
Speaker 1: feel like the standard is more realistic.
Speaker 3: Oh that's so true.
Speaker 2: I mean it is so scary as well when you
Speaker 2: see how many young people are on Instagram, and I
Speaker 2: heard some crazy stat that some teenagers aren't even going
Speaker 2: to parties because they feel like they can't even live
Speaker 2: up to their Instagram photos. Do you know, I know,
Speaker 2: is that what you kind of think about? I mean,
Speaker 2: obviously you're putting it out there so others might do
Speaker 2: the same and feel better, But are you mindful of
Speaker 2: your younger following?
Speaker 1: Absolutely? And I think that's probably where why it's become
Speaker 1: something that I try and do more and more, because
Speaker 1: I do appreciate so much that I didn't have to
Speaker 1: face that when I was a teenager, and I do
Speaker 1: increasingly think as I we you know, we get closer
Speaker 1: to planning to have children, I get just so concerned
Speaker 1: about the world that they will enter into having that
Speaker 1: from the time that they're really really young. So it's
Speaker 1: almost with that in mind that I think I need
Speaker 1: to start doing what I can to mold the platform
Speaker 1: in a way that it might be a little bit
Speaker 1: of a safer, less precious in place by the time
Speaker 1: we have children and they're using social media. But definitely
Speaker 1: the younger audience, how impressionable they are, how much stuff
Speaker 1: out there there is that is misleading and that does
Speaker 1: lead to behaviors as much as them not going to
Speaker 1: things in real life, Like that's just so sad, And yeah,
Speaker 1: it just makes me so sad thinking that that could
Speaker 1: even be, you know, someone's life because we didn't have that.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that. Yeah, the future generations and
Speaker 1: the younger generations now are definitely something I think about.
Speaker 2: And talking about younger is You've previously described yourself as
Speaker 2: a child as someone who is artsy, fatsi and an ubernert.
Speaker 3: What were you like as a kid and did you.
Speaker 2: See yourself going down the path of running your own
Speaker 2: business one day?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so definitely I was super arty, Fatzi. Even the
Speaker 1: fact that I use words like that, I've always been
Speaker 1: like that like really fluffy language, really like I was
Speaker 1: always dressed in two twos. I was ballerina until I
Speaker 1: was gosh, I was fifteen, I think when I left
Speaker 1: the Australian Ballet. But when I was younger and it
Speaker 1: was less serious, I was always just performing and making
Speaker 1: concerts and like making two tuos out of like seven
Speaker 1: layers of my mum's dresses, or painting makeup on other people.
Speaker 1: Like Yeah, I'd loved to draw and listen to music,
Speaker 1: and then as I got older, i'd kind of write
Speaker 1: music and I loved everything. It's so interesting that I
Speaker 1: in my school years I kind of went a lot
Speaker 1: more the academic pathway on the other side of my brain.
Speaker 1: But when I was younger, I was very, very like
Speaker 1: curious about the art, and I had such a strong network,
Speaker 1: such a strong family network. And both sides of our
Speaker 1: family are from the countryside, so I think we had
Speaker 1: a city kid upbringing in that all the opportunities that
Speaker 1: were available here we were able to make the most of.
Speaker 1: But then we also spend a lot of time on
Speaker 1: the dairy farms and out in the countries, so I've
Speaker 1: also had that real supportive It takes a village kind
Speaker 1: of feel of having country communities around us as well.
Speaker 1: And yeah, when I look back at my childhood, I
Speaker 1: just think of it being so happy, really happy, full
Speaker 1: of excitement, and yeah, that's what I come back to
Speaker 1: now when I think about how we all have that
Speaker 1: kind of fun silly in a child, and we let
Speaker 1: that person go for a little while, but I try
Speaker 1: and come back to her.
Speaker 2: I've heard you speak in the past about sometimes you
Speaker 2: think how different your life could have been. Obviously you
Speaker 2: were born in South Korea and being adopted at such
Speaker 2: a young age. Do you still think about that what
Speaker 2: life might have been like if you were still in
Speaker 2: South Korea always?
Speaker 1: I think that's probably been one of my biggest drivers
Speaker 1: for I guess, like most things that I do, just
Speaker 1: thinking about how I could Like, there's so many sliding
Speaker 1: doors moments in my life where things could have gone
Speaker 1: one way or another without you know, like there's such
Speaker 1: a tiny chance that it would have gone one way
Speaker 1: or the other. And that was obviously the very first
Speaker 1: one that I had no consciousness of at the time
Speaker 1: and no appreciation of until gosh, I mean maybe my
Speaker 1: teen years when I was like, oh God, like I
Speaker 1: could have actually ended up living in what was the
Speaker 1: third World country at the time and not having any
Speaker 1: of these opportunities. So that's made me always instilled a
Speaker 1: real sense of gratitude and appreciation and an attitude of like,
Speaker 1: make the most of everything because you almost didn't have it,
Speaker 1: or you could have not had it, which has probably
Speaker 1: been one of the reasons why I burn out so
Speaker 1: often as well, because I do get a little bit
Speaker 1: carried away and trying to fit everything in and be
Speaker 1: part of every sport and every club and everything. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's definitely driven a lot of my choices and a
Speaker 1: lot of my attitude towards things. Has always made volunteer
Speaker 1: work and philanthropy a really big part of everything that
Speaker 1: I've done. So when I was a lawyer, you know,
Speaker 1: there are lots of legal clinics who can volunteer out
Speaker 1: there are also volunteer opportunities, and then when I left
Speaker 1: the law, we kind of transferred that into we worked
Speaker 1: in Rwanda and some schools to build classrooms and teach
Speaker 1: classes and you know what. You know, for both Nick
Speaker 1: and I had always been important to have a volunteer
Speaker 1: component to what we do because his mum was also
Speaker 1: actually adopted. Oh yeah, I know, it's so crazy.
Speaker 2: You spoke about the sliding doors moments. Was that one
Speaker 2: of the moments when you were deciding between law and
Speaker 2: whether you're going to pursue much a maide as your
Speaker 2: main career.
Speaker 1: Yes, definitely that was. I think the next big sliding
Speaker 1: moment was that big career change and deciding whether to
Speaker 1: go with something that wasn't Actually. One of the things
Speaker 1: I try and talk about often is that when you're
Speaker 1: really unhappy, you'll make a change. But if you're not
Speaker 1: super unhappy, but you're not happy, like you're just blah,
Speaker 1: you're not as you know, there's nothing to kind of
Speaker 1: push you to make a change because it's not that bad,
Speaker 1: you know. And because it wasn't bad, I was like,
Speaker 1: I could keep doing this, I could go for a
Speaker 1: great wage, a lot of learning opportunities, there were great
Speaker 1: travel opportunities within my firm, and it was obviously quite
Speaker 1: a respectable career that you could take in lots of directions.
Speaker 1: It was well paid. You know, there were so many
Speaker 1: reasons why it was a good option. But then there
Speaker 1: was this kind of really uncertain but also potentially amazing,
Speaker 1: totally out of the blue opportunity that again was like
Speaker 1: so risky, but also was something that kind of ignited
Speaker 1: my excitement, that excitement that I had when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, that I didn't know that I hadn't had
Speaker 1: in so long until I had it again, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this has been missing for a while,
Speaker 1: and it was it was it was something I was
Speaker 1: able to do on the side. So we did the
Speaker 1: business for six months on the side while I was
Speaker 1: still working full time in the beginning, and it was
Speaker 1: easier then, Like, even though it was a scary thing
Speaker 1: to start a business, it's not as scary when it's
Speaker 1: a side hustle because the risk is so low. So
Speaker 1: that first six months was scary and crazy, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't nearly as hard as when it became suddenly like
Speaker 1: you can't do both anymore. You have to choose. You
Speaker 1: have to cut one of them off, maybe not forever,
Speaker 1: but for like semi permanently, and you have to choose
Speaker 1: one or the other. That was when it became really scary, overwhelming,
Speaker 1: and one of those things where you can't actually not
Speaker 1: make a decision, like you have to just you can't
Speaker 1: do both anymore, so it has to be one or
Speaker 1: the other, and the longer await, the worst it becomes.
Speaker 1: But I think the way that I always work things
Speaker 1: out in that situation is what's the once in a
Speaker 1: lifetime opportunity and law it's not once in a lifetime.
Speaker 1: There are things that are once in a lifetime in
Speaker 1: that career, but no one is ever not going to
Speaker 1: need lawyers. Yeah, and this reason're not going to go anyway,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I knew I could always fall back
Speaker 1: on those qualifications in one way or another, whether it
Speaker 1: was in the same job or a completely different one.
Speaker 1: There's no shortage of times lawyers that needed. Whereas the
Speaker 1: business was growing at a pace in a you know,
Speaker 1: digital world that was so new, so unpredictable, but also
Speaker 1: so once in a lifetime, like no one else was
Speaker 1: doing it, we knew it was only a matter of
Speaker 1: time before other people kind of caught on and we
Speaker 1: had a chance to be the first one. So you know,
Speaker 1: we're like, Okay, this is the ones in a lifetime thing.
Speaker 1: This is the thing that if I look back and
Speaker 1: I don't do, I might regret, Whereas if I look
Speaker 1: back on you know, the other way, I probably won't
Speaker 1: mind because one day, worst case scenario. If it doesn't work,
Speaker 1: I can just go back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's always people to sue. And I was going
Speaker 3: to say, how did you exactly, how did you?
Speaker 2: Can you tell us a story how you actually stumbled
Speaker 2: across match it, because I think it's so interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it was such an accident, which is why
Speaker 1: I always talk about the Sliding Wars moment because it
Speaker 1: was so like, such a random, random thing that happened
Speaker 1: that wasn't even related to matter in the beginning. So
Speaker 1: I had got I think I was ten months into
Speaker 1: my first year as a lawyer, and we went to Africa.
Speaker 1: On the trip that I was talking about, I took
Speaker 1: a month off, which is so unheard of. You just
Speaker 1: don't do that in your first year of work or
Speaker 1: really most years of work. And so we went over there.
Speaker 1: It was absolutely incredible, totally transformative experience. The kids over
Speaker 1: there were amazing, and we just really it really changed
Speaker 1: a lot of things for us both. But I came
Speaker 1: home with a gut parasite that I picked up over there,
Speaker 1: which was quite nasty. But I was so unconnected with
Speaker 1: my body at that time, like I just had no
Speaker 1: awareness of health and wellness of what it took to
Speaker 1: really look after yourself. It was very superficial, like I
Speaker 1: just exercised and eat well, and I was like cool tick.
Speaker 1: So I ended up burning myself that and ignoring all
Speaker 1: the signs. I lost fifteen kilos from it before I
Speaker 1: really realized that anything had happened, was I know, And
Speaker 1: you know, the first five kilos, I was like grammy,
Speaker 1: and then I was like, why am I looking so skimmy?
Speaker 1: This is not nice. And I just couldn't digest things
Speaker 1: properly and it was kind of wreaking all this, all
Speaker 1: this kind of havoc without me really understanding what was
Speaker 1: going on. So I ended up just still working really
Speaker 1: long hours and it didn't really hit me until I
Speaker 1: just completely collapsed at work. I had a dream or fatigue.
Speaker 1: I'd like burnt myself completely to it, you know, to
Speaker 1: total collapse. And I had take quite a few weeks.
Speaker 1: I think it was even maybe months off work. And
Speaker 1: that was when I was banned from coffee because my
Speaker 1: dream or system was so fragile and compromised that they
Speaker 1: were like, you'll have a panic attack if you have
Speaker 1: a cup of coffee, so best just not do that.
Speaker 3: A lawyer with an coffee.
Speaker 1: My god, exactly, Oh my god. You understand. I was
Speaker 1: like cups a day kind of girl. At the time.
Speaker 1: I was like, what am I going to do? And
Speaker 1: that's when I kind of believe that the universe always
Speaker 1: works things out for you in one way or another.
Speaker 1: And I got sent to the firm's headquarters as soon
Speaker 1: as I went back to work in Hong Kong on
Speaker 1: a deal over there, and I was there for about
Speaker 1: I think eight months, and over there, Matcha is everywhere.
Speaker 1: It's not, you know, in the East, it's not the
Speaker 1: buzzword that it's been in the West. Has been around
Speaker 1: for centuries. The Zen Buddhist monks have been using it
Speaker 1: for years and years and then meditation practices, and it's
Speaker 1: because it gives you. It's got caffeine and it gives
Speaker 1: you a really good boost of energy. But what coffee
Speaker 1: doesn't have is an amino acid called elthanine, which controls
Speaker 1: the release of the caffeine, so it's slower and you
Speaker 1: don't get a spike and then a crash. You just
Speaker 1: get this sustained energy release. So I was able to
Speaker 1: have a boost of energy from caffeine that wouldn't kind
Speaker 1: of send me into a full flipout and I just
Speaker 1: got hooked. I was like, this is amazing. How has
Speaker 1: no one realized is a magical out there? And we
Speaker 1: were a really health food conscious society already, Like I
Speaker 1: was like, if people are willing to drink spirollina, which
Speaker 1: tastes like foot, probably going to be willing to consider
Speaker 1: green tea out of it just taste like green tea.
Speaker 1: But then we came home couldn't find it anywhere, like
Speaker 1: just for ourselves, totally selfish needs. We went online and
Speaker 1: tried to find some, and yeah, we found a really
Speaker 1: good supply that was kind of halfway between the two
Speaker 1: options that were available, which was a really expensive ceremonial
Speaker 1: once in a you know, twice a year, you get
Speaker 1: it out when your grandmar comes over kind of tea,
Speaker 1: or there was like an Asian grocery sugary alternative that
Speaker 1: was really cheap and not high enough quality to have
Speaker 1: the health benefits. And we were like, what's in the middle.
Speaker 1: Surely there's something in the middle, And we found some.
Speaker 1: We bought it for ourselves. He could only get it
Speaker 1: in bulk. It came and it was massive, and we
Speaker 1: were like, so we've got some powder to get rid of.
Speaker 1: We can do this, And that's literally how it started.
Speaker 1: It was like, we have too much powder, too much money.
Speaker 1: Let's sell some just some people and just as like
Speaker 1: your little side project and see what happens. And the
Speaker 1: risk was super low because we'd already bought it, like scenario.
Speaker 1: We ended up with what we'd already bought, which was
Speaker 1: exactly the same.
Speaker 3: That's a ten year supply of match for yourselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and like, who don't need that. We're like,
Speaker 1: we'll get through it eventually, work case scenario, and then
Speaker 1: it just ended up doing well.
Speaker 3: That's so good. I was gonna say.
Speaker 2: A lot of people think that starting a business is
Speaker 2: so glamorous because they see, you know, different posts on Instagram.
Speaker 2: Can you tell us the reality of when you guys
Speaker 2: started matcha Maiden.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's the opposite of glamor. It's it's
Speaker 1: got its own special vibe in that you're just so
Speaker 1: excited and you're doing everything for the first time and
Speaker 1: it's just so like so magical to be working on
Speaker 1: something that you care about. And it's different. But in
Speaker 1: terms of like glamorous moments, they are few and far between.
Speaker 1: We were literally we were doing everything ourselves. We had
Speaker 1: no idea what we're doing. And I think the cliche
Speaker 1: of you know, going on Google to figure things out
Speaker 1: is a cliche because that's literally how everyone starts. Everything
Speaker 1: is googleable. We just went to Google and we're like,
Speaker 1: what do you need for a tea business? And just
Speaker 1: work backwards from like, like what's the minimum that we
Speaker 1: would need to get one bag ready for sale? So
Speaker 1: we figured out that you need a bag, you need
Speaker 1: to close the bag, you need to put something on
Speaker 1: the bag. You know. It was very, very simple, and
Speaker 1: all of that was just us running around to like
Speaker 1: Ali Barber, getting things from eBay, going to office works.
Speaker 1: And then when we were packing, which we were doing ourselves,
Speaker 1: we hired a friend's commercial kitchen for like the middle
Speaker 1: of the night after our normal jobs, and then we're
Speaker 1: just like in our undis so that we wouldn't get fiber,
Speaker 1: you know, little like fibers in the packets with shower
Speaker 1: caps on. Packing in like a production line, and it
Speaker 1: was just like breaking bag but green. The best way
Speaker 1: that I can describe it. It's such an old joke,
Speaker 1: like my friends always roll their eyes. You're going to
Speaker 1: say the same joke, but like that's exactly what it was.
Speaker 1: It was so un glamorous.
Speaker 3: You should have got a few snaps of that.
Speaker 1: There. They probably won't see the light, but they exist.
Speaker 2: And as I felt like business women, I feel like
Speaker 2: there's a lot of guilt associated with working from home,
Speaker 2: and you know, you going from working in a corporate
Speaker 2: environment to then, you know, starting this business at your home.
Speaker 2: Did you struggle with that guilt from time to time?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know whether it's guilt. I think I
Speaker 1: feel the guilt more now. At the time, it was
Speaker 1: also accompanied by just so much like what am I doing?
Speaker 1: Like you'd wake up one morning and be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's amazing, and then you wake up the next day
Speaker 1: and be like, oh my god, I've made the biggest
Speaker 1: mistake of my life. Like there's just such an emotional
Speaker 1: rollercoaster that and you were I was so busy, Like
Speaker 1: we were just so overcome by how fast it was
Speaker 1: growing and how much we didn't know how to keep
Speaker 1: up with it. So I think we were just so
Speaker 1: distracted in the first year and a bit that we
Speaker 1: didn't really have time to sit and think, you know,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, we're so lucky, like with an amazing transition.
Speaker 1: It's more been since we've started to feel a little
Speaker 1: bit more confident and a little bit able to sort
Speaker 1: of chill a little bit more and do things on
Speaker 1: purpose rather than just reactively. Now I'm like, often I'll
Speaker 1: just be sitting there, you know, in an amazing meeting
Speaker 1: with an amazing partner for the podcast or something, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's eleven o'clock on a Tuesday, I'm in
Speaker 1: a cafe. I would have been in a firm this time,
Speaker 1: like it's a weekday. Now is where I feel bad
Speaker 1: because I'm like it's too good, Like I have it
Speaker 1: too good. I'm having too much fun. This is just
Speaker 1: too amazing. And I think also in the first you know,
Speaker 1: couple of years, you have so many dramas, like there
Speaker 1: are just so many disasters of stuff that go wrong,
Speaker 1: or that you're double guessing yourself or you're like shit,
Speaker 1: shit shit, But the guild doesn't really creep in until
Speaker 1: things start actually going well, and then you're like, wait, what,
Speaker 1: this is my job now, what do you mean? Or
Speaker 1: like I feel more guilty not so much working from home,
Speaker 1: but when we travel, when we travel for work and
Speaker 1: we can work from anywhere. That's where I'm like, this
Speaker 1: is too good, Like surely this is there's something wrong
Speaker 1: in this situation, Like why is no one stopping me?
Speaker 3: That's so good.
Speaker 2: You mentioned that you've been speaking to a lot of
Speaker 2: famous people in your podcast, and one of my favorite
Speaker 2: interviews of yours is with Gary V.
Speaker 1: What is he?
Speaker 3: What was he actually like in person?
Speaker 1: He's amazing, amazing. He's one of those people who you're
Speaker 1: never going like, you're never quite sure if they're going
Speaker 1: to be the same in real life as they are
Speaker 1: on social media, And he was like I was so
Speaker 1: curious to see if he would be as crazily energetic
Speaker 1: and as enthusiastic. Gorgue just kind of puts it on
Speaker 1: and he was exactly the same. Like I felt like
Speaker 1: I've known him for years, because he is exactly the
Speaker 1: same person that you see on every video and every story.
Speaker 1: He's so enthusiast, stick about the things, he's passionate about.
Speaker 1: He's so intense, like he just he'll come in. When
Speaker 1: he came in, he was like on his phone and
Speaker 1: like really distracted, and then as soon as he puts
Speaker 1: his phone down, he's like, I'm on like for the
Speaker 1: time that you have me, you have my full attention
Speaker 1: and just like stares at you intently and listens really carefully.
Speaker 1: It's kind of scary, but it was amazing. I was like,
Speaker 1: you're less distracted than we are, and like you have
Speaker 1: way more things going on than any of us, and
Speaker 1: yet you're able to give us more attention and then
Speaker 1: like I give my mum when we have a conversation
Speaker 1: or whatever. It was just really interesting to see that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that someone can maintain that much energy and it
Speaker 1: is genuine and and he does. He cares so much
Speaker 1: about about just joy and spreading good things on you know,
Speaker 1: in the internet, and you know, you kind of think, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's you know, that's a great tack to take. Because
Speaker 1: you're a billionaire, it's easy for you to say that stuff.
Speaker 1: And of course it's trendy to be spreading happiness. But
Speaker 1: he's genuine, really passionate about it. He's very driven by
Speaker 1: the world that he wants to create for his children,
Speaker 1: and he's just so passionate about learning. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: was really really inspired and impressed by how but he
Speaker 1: was also chill, you know, like he also was like
Speaker 1: could have a laugh about around himself and wasn't too
Speaker 1: like business business. He was like yeah, talking about the
Speaker 1: lemonades dands that he used to happen he was a kid,
Speaker 1: and then talking about his kids, and yeah, I was like,
Speaker 1: you're just a person who's really cool.
Speaker 2: I'm glad to hear he's just the same as he
Speaker 2: is on his in his content. Is he someone that
Speaker 2: you listened to a lot before? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I listened to him a lot, and I just
Speaker 1: I never was really sure how much I gelled with him,
Speaker 1: Like I obviously found him super inspiring, but because I
Speaker 1: wasn't sure that that is actually how he is, do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like he just seemed too
Speaker 1: like too intense and amazing all the time, and I
Speaker 1: just wasn't sure how It's sad, you know, you know
Speaker 1: with some how you listen to everything, but I'm like, whoa,
Speaker 1: he's screaming at me. And I loved it, Like I
Speaker 1: found that I needed his kind of material when I
Speaker 1: was having a really like lull in my motivation if
Speaker 1: I was feeling really good, like I might feel like
Speaker 1: he was like really intense, and you know, I'd be
Speaker 1: like ah, but no, I yeah, prolifically listened to his
Speaker 1: podcast and watched his channel, and Yeah, had been following
Speaker 1: him for a really long time and loved everything that
Speaker 1: he was saying about how entrepreneur entrepreneur entrepreneurialism is maybe
Speaker 1: not for everyone, but these you know, he's really very
Speaker 1: real about what in the roles and about the things
Speaker 1: that he does and how he does them and looking
Speaker 1: for like how he picks things a head in the
Speaker 1: future and then spreading kindness and doing good things without
Speaker 1: influence like that had always resonated really strong strongly with me.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I was definitely a fan girl.
Speaker 2: And you and your husband now, which I don't know
Speaker 2: if that's strange for you to call him your husband yet, Nick,
Speaker 2: he obviously runs oh weird, He obviously runs the bushy
Speaker 2: creative as well as working with you on Match of Maiden.
Speaker 2: How tough was it in the beginning to figure out
Speaker 2: that work life balance.
Speaker 1: So difficult It took us years, Like we had gone
Speaker 1: from having such separate careers where we just operated in
Speaker 1: our own little worlds and then came home and had,
Speaker 1: you know, a quick chat about our day, but our
Speaker 1: stuff was very separate to suddenly like at home together,
Speaker 1: working from home, together twenty four seven and then working
Speaker 1: on the same stuff as well. So it was such
Speaker 1: a big lifestyle change. And we also had no like
Speaker 1: experience in carving out structure, or in knowing how to
Speaker 1: work with each other, or making decisions on work things,
Speaker 1: or you know, we didn't even really know what each
Speaker 1: other's skills and weaknesses were yet because we never worked
Speaker 1: together and we didn't have a date night for maybe
Speaker 1: two years. I reckon like, we just didn't know that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think as you're so excited, and especially for me,
Speaker 1: it didn't feel like work. It still felt like my hobby,
Speaker 1: so I didn't really feel like it was all real.
Speaker 1: It just felt like play. For two years, we didn't
Speaker 1: even know that we needed that. We were just like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's keep going. We let's do all the staff. But
Speaker 1: it wasn't until like two years later we were like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, we're becoming like business partners and friends
Speaker 1: who live together. You realize that that is what happens
Speaker 1: when you don't take those times and you don't put
Speaker 1: boundaries in to make sure that you have two separate roles.
Speaker 1: You're not always in business partner role. You can be
Speaker 1: in a couple role, and you have to like have
Speaker 1: a cut off at the end of the day where
Speaker 1: you're not in work roles anymore, and you have to
Speaker 1: have weekends, and you have to have trips that aren't
Speaker 1: work trips. And that was a really really big learning
Speaker 1: and transition that around the year two or three took
Speaker 1: us maybe another to kind of figure out where the
Speaker 1: right balance was and how to, you know, to talk
Speaker 1: to each other differently when we were having work meetings
Speaker 1: than we would when we were just chatting as a couple.
Speaker 1: And I think that probably was where we argued a lot.
Speaker 1: Like we don't really argue, but that year was like
Speaker 1: really tense because we were just like, why are we
Speaker 1: so shitty all the time? Like it's just because we
Speaker 1: were in each other's face all the time.
Speaker 2: Sophie and I work together and you can just be
Speaker 2: so brutally honest with family members, and I feel like
Speaker 2: it must be the same for when you're in a
Speaker 2: relationship with someone. Was that hard giving that honest feedback?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think that was probably where we fell over
Speaker 1: the most, is that we would take liberties with each
Speaker 1: other that you would never take with a third party,
Speaker 1: a third party business partner, like if you don't think
Speaker 1: someone's idea is nice, you won't just be like that's shit.
Speaker 1: You're feeling, you know, really great, like well done, you
Speaker 1: like maybe we could do it this day. And we
Speaker 1: were just brutal to each other because you take liberties
Speaker 1: because you're a couple as well, so you're like, I
Speaker 1: don't have to talk nicely to you, like pad this out.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's where we'd have like crazy disagreements because
Speaker 1: we'd just be so like hated and like, how do
Speaker 1: you speak to me like that I'm your career girlfriend
Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, So I think it was the casualness
Speaker 1: that was the problem, not the other way around. So
Speaker 1: we did kind of feel like we needed to implement
Speaker 1: some structure and routine and systems and ways of speaking
Speaker 1: to each other. And we also hadn't divided departments. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you guys have had this, but when
Speaker 1: you're both the boss of every department, no one can
Speaker 1: make a decision and there's no final call, and it
Speaker 1: means there's a potential for argument in every single area.
Speaker 1: But once we realized what we were good at what
Speaker 1: we weren't good at, and sat down and were like,
Speaker 1: this is my department, this is yours, and we can
Speaker 1: obviously chat about everything, but one of us will have
Speaker 1: the final say in each thing. We don't argue anymore
Speaker 1: because it's like no area where that can happen. So
Speaker 1: I think it's just a process of like experimenting with
Speaker 1: what works between your personal relationship and your business partnership.
Speaker 1: But it definitely takes some proper effort, Like I don't
Speaker 1: think many people just fall into an amazing setup that way.
Speaker 1: You usually have to sit down and kind of chat
Speaker 1: about things and talk about your expectations, and communication is
Speaker 1: just the key, as long as everyone knows that you're
Speaker 1: trying your best and that you know we're acknowledging the
Speaker 1: things that don't work and the things that do. I
Speaker 1: think as long as you're talking to each other, I think.
Speaker 3: That's amazing advice. I'd love to hear your advice.
Speaker 2: For young business boys and girls. It might be listening
Speaker 2: if someone came to you and said they had this
Speaker 2: amazing product, but they've never run a business before and
Speaker 2: they don't know what to do. What would be your
Speaker 2: initial advice to them?
Speaker 1: Oh, so many things, but I guess I think the
Speaker 1: biggest obstacle at the start of a new business or
Speaker 1: a new idea isn't actually doing the things. It's just
Speaker 1: your brain. It's convincing yourself that you're good enough to
Speaker 1: do it, or that the idea is good enough to
Speaker 1: do it. And I think it's so sad, Like one
Speaker 1: of my favorite quotes is, doubt kills the more dreams
Speaker 1: than failure ever will. It's so sad to think of
Speaker 1: how many dreams never made it, not because the actual
Speaker 1: thing was too hard to do, because the person's doubt
Speaker 1: talk them out of it before they got started. So
Speaker 1: I think my main piece of advice would be just
Speaker 1: to start. Start before you're already done is better than perfect.
Speaker 1: We wait so long to perfect things. And I particularly,
Speaker 1: I'm such an an anally retentive like OCD person that
Speaker 1: Nick really had to convince me like if we don't
Speaker 1: get it out, it's never going to get out there,
Speaker 1: and like you're just going to agonize over and over
Speaker 1: and over until you think it's perfect and then we'll
Speaker 1: be too late, or you'll just never get to the
Speaker 1: time when you think it's good enough. So I think
Speaker 1: I think my biggest advice would be to just get started.
Speaker 1: You are so capable of learning. It doesn't matter if
Speaker 1: you don't have qualifications or a degree. Nobody actually does
Speaker 1: because no one's really done businesses in this climate before.
Speaker 1: It's such a different climate to what it was two
Speaker 1: years ago or three years ago, so everyone's kind of
Speaker 1: almost on an even playing field. And what you don't know,
Speaker 1: you can learn very quickly. If anything, not being bogged
Speaker 1: down by the proper way to do things might actually
Speaker 1: save you some time or give you different perspectives on
Speaker 1: how things can be done. So, yeah, just just get
Speaker 1: started and talk to people who will make you believe
Speaker 1: that you can and will help you believe that it's possible.
Speaker 1: Don't go to the skeptics or the people who are
Speaker 1: going to point out the problems. You definitely need them
Speaker 1: later on, but you can't let them talk you out
Speaker 1: of it before you've even begun.
Speaker 2: That's such wonderful advice, and I love it making notes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to start, and I want to start
Speaker 3: a new business now. So inspire.
Speaker 2: And what do you have planned for twenty twenty. I
Speaker 2: see that you've been on the road for your podcast
Speaker 2: taking that to audiences. Is that something we'll see more
Speaker 2: of next year?
Speaker 1: Yes, definitely, we did our first live event, I always
Speaker 1: say we even it was just me. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it just kind of like makes you feel
Speaker 1: less silly, but it's just you. Anyway I am doing.
Speaker 1: I want to do a lot more live events because
Speaker 1: I found that just to be so feeling and exciting
Speaker 1: to meet the community. And you don't actually see your
Speaker 1: listeners when you're recording podcasts. You don't actually get any
Speaker 1: response until much later, so you kind of forget that
Speaker 1: anyone's actually listening, which means when you get to meet
Speaker 1: people in person, it's so so fulfilling and lovely. So
Speaker 1: lots more of those. In the process of writing my
Speaker 1: first book, which is the CZA Book, and that is
Speaker 1: coming out in September August or September, so I think
Speaker 1: a big part of next year will be just like
Speaker 1: the edit of that and getting it ready to kind
Speaker 1: of come out, and planning some exciting things to come
Speaker 1: out around the same time, like maybe some events or
Speaker 1: some fun merch maybe another flip book like whatever it is.
Speaker 1: There's so much going on with the CZA brand and
Speaker 1: just continuing to build really cool guests into the program,
Speaker 1: and I think there's a lot of things I had
Speaker 1: on my list to add too, Like I really like
Speaker 1: to keep the breast ritten, the breasts, not the breast,
Speaker 1: maybe the breast. I really like to keep the guests
Speaker 1: really broad. And there's a couple of jobs or you know,
Speaker 1: titles or areas that I didn't get to tick off
Speaker 1: last year just because of availability and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Like I had a paramedic lined up and they just
Speaker 1: got too busy at work, and obviously you can't kind
Speaker 1: of pause paramedic work. That's pretty important. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things like that that I just
Speaker 1: really wanted to do. I've got a war zone doctor
Speaker 1: lined up, which is going to be amazing. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just keeping adding new jobs and new areas of learning
Speaker 1: that people might not have heard about. So yeah, spending
Speaker 1: a bit of time on that. I'm working on a
Speaker 1: few other podcasts which is really exciting with other partners,
Speaker 1: so that'll come out next year. And then we've still
Speaker 1: got the match of businesses, so a lot in the
Speaker 1: pipeline for both of them, and maybe babies. I think
Speaker 1: we might even start thinking about babies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, where do you find the time for all of
Speaker 3: the gosh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just was thinking when I said that I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I don't really know where I'm going
Speaker 1: to do that, but we'll figure it out.
Speaker 2: Lastly, we have to find out how, you know, Christmas
Speaker 2: is only a few days away, how will you be
Speaker 2: spending Christmas this year?
Speaker 1: We're very simple for Chrissy. We just spend it with
Speaker 1: our family. We kind of alternate between Nick's family and
Speaker 1: Tazzy and my family here. And this year is a
Speaker 1: Melbourne year, so my mom's side of the family has
Speaker 1: a big Christmas lunch and we all just yeah, get
Speaker 1: really bloated in food, comat on turkey and potatoes. We
Speaker 1: do that. We have like a Christmas lunch altogether, and
Speaker 1: then next year we'll go to Tazzi And our nephew
Speaker 1: is just at the age where this year he kind
Speaker 1: of doesn't quite understand Santa, but next year will be
Speaker 1: a really exciting like leaving out all the things and
Speaker 1: putting out, you know, his little Santa sack, so that
Speaker 1: next year will be kind of back to the super
Speaker 1: supermagical children's perspective of Christmas. But this year is just
Speaker 1: really chill. We've had such a big year and we're
Speaker 1: just really excited to take a few days off we're
Speaker 1: heading to the country after that for a week. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We kept my grandmother's house after she passed away, which
Speaker 1: is two hours into regional Victoria. And it's like, literally
Speaker 1: looks exactly the same as when my mum grew up
Speaker 1: in it. It's hysterical, like nothing matches. It's all just
Speaker 1: like flower patterns of vomited on each other. And it's great,
Speaker 1: like we do. There's hardly anything there. There's like five shops.
Speaker 1: We just yeah, really relaxed and I'll finish some riding
Speaker 1: up there and lots of sleepings and.
Speaker 2: That Oh sounds amazing. Well, thank you so much for
Speaker 2: joining us on the show. We hope you have a
Speaker 2: very merry Christmas.
Speaker 1: Oh you too. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much for listening. If you
Speaker 2: did enjoy the podcast, we'd love if you could leave
Speaker 2: us a review. We'd also love if you could share
Speaker 2: it on your Insta story and if you would like
Speaker 2: to join in conversation further.
Speaker 3: You can find us on Instagram at.
Speaker 2: Outspoken Underscore the Underscored Podcast. We're also on Facebook by
Speaker 2: the same name. We hope you all have a very
Speaker 2: merry Christmas.